The Big Jack Draper Interview

38:32it's not healthy it's not healthy obviously a lot of players have come out and they spoke about mental health this year and look I get it like I said it's it's a really tough thing to sort of verbalize because we are in such a great position but at the same time it's like when you're out there say five matches in seven days is a lot easier than five matches in 14 days because there's so much dead time there's so much waiting around there's so much sort of in between and you know when you look ahead in the year that you're going to be playing more of these like the I think they've added say five um five more of the 12-day masters I believe so in the past it used to be obviously Indian Wells Miami and it used to be um Monte Carlo was always the same but then Madrid Rome 64 draw and the other ones uh the same obviously now we've got um Madrid and Rome are different.

39:33Toronto, Cincinnati different, Shanghai different. So those added weeks, it's just, it's a lot to sort of process and come to. And people will say in tennis, you can pick and choose your tournaments. But that's not understanding the mindset of a player who wants to do the sport properly. Because if you want to do the sport properly, then you want to be playing week in, week out. You want to be earning ranking points because the main goal as a player is to get right up there to Turin and it's a dog-eat-dog sport. Everyone's playing each week and everyone wants to beat the player that they want to become so it's tough to sort of just let loose and let go and also you get punished for those things as well.

40:19With the rankings you get zero pointers meaning that tennis players get 18 best results in their rankings breakdown and if you miss one of these masters 1000s or if you don't play the required 500 events then you're going to get a zero pointer meaning that something is locked in for the for the whole of the year and you can't progress on that you can't act on that you can't add points to it whereas other people who who play can so it's a it's a really just I guess unbalanced approach moving forward in the nature of the game. I think young players are kind of looking ahead in their careers and they're thinking how long am I really going to be able to play this sport for?

41:05How long am I going to be able to cope with the demands of what I'm doing? And you know I hate to hate to see that because I know that as someone who loves this sport for me it's not about the money it's not about um you know complaining or anything like this it's like i look at the sport the way it is and i think it needs to honestly go in a better direction where we're looking at the prize asset which is the players and hearing them so have you had those thoughts about i'm i'm i might not be able to play you know into my 30s if it if it carries on like this yeah look it's a tough one for me to say because obviously I have had injuries you know I still feel like I haven't played loads of tennis but say this year I was you know before I got injured I was looking I was thinking I've already felt like I've had I played a lot of matches yeah I didn't play a lot of tournaments but I played a lot of matches and I felt like I was always pretty pretty active and I was looking ahead to the rest of the season I was going to be packed again and because the offseason in tennis is so short you know it's not like other sports where you get a bigger offseason you get time to reset, refresh, spend time with your family and all that sort of stuff.

42:19It's like, no, the off season's four weeks, if that. And then you're doing it all over again. So it's just, there's no time to sort of just refresh. And I think that has a big negative on the actual product because guys are getting more burnt out. They're not able to improve their tennis. They're not able to refresh mentally and to feel like they're in a good place to put their best tennis out on the court. And yeah, I suppose it's not just from a player's perspective, that it's worrying, I think, from a fan's perspective. Not only is the Masters 1000s longer, so it's just like, it's really tough to follow.

42:58I have friends, I have people around who, they love tennis, but they're like, I just can't follow it anymore. I just can't get, I can't focus on what I need to focus on with the tournaments because it just seems like it's never ending. And it's right, there isn't. Yeah, we're always explaining to people what stage of a Masters 1000 we're at and quite often getting ourselves quite confused. Do you think that Fedor and Nadal, Djokovic, Serena as well on the WTA side and the crazy longevity they had in their careers playing into their late, late 30s? Obviously, Djokovic is still going. He might be in his 40s.

43:42Do you think that has made the sport complacent about career longevity of players? Like, is the sport kind of just assuming that that's the new normal now and Sinner and Alcaraz are going to definitely be playing when they're 35? I mean, I think sometimes you'll hear, you know, people say, oh, but, you know, Federer would have picked and chooses tournaments and Federer would have done this. It's like you're looking at the most elegant, greatest tennis player that's probably ever lived. And the way he played the game, it was just outstanding. And I think players often, or people often look to the sort of the greatest and like that's the norm.

44:23That's what you should be able to do. But I think, you know, players are becoming more vocal around it. You know, I know the likes of Yannick and Carlos and, you know, they are unhappy about the way tennis is looking right now and what they have to be able to put out on court every week. Because their mentality is they're not going to go to the tournament and be like, oh, I can go out early this week and then go home and rest. If they're entering a tournament, they want to be there for the longevity and they want to be there for the full of it. It's like Carlos this year has obviously won Monte Carlo, he's won Barcelona.

44:57I think he maybe picked up a small niggle in Barcelona. He's probably looking ahead and he's probably thinking, I've got Madrid to play 12 days, I've got Rome to play 12 days, and then I'm straight into the French and then to the grass. Like he's looking ahead and he's probably thinking, right, there's got to be a couple of big tournaments I've got to miss here because I can't keep up with it. And then obviously he's having to, duties to pull out of Madrid, Masters 1000, which is his home event, all because, you know, the days are just, the tournaments are so, so long. And I think it's a real shame because the whole point, I think of the ATP doing what they're doing with the, with the tournaments is to protect the tournaments from the big players pulling out and missing their tournaments.

45:42But I think you're going to see more and more top players start missing those big events because it's just, if they're doing really well, they just can't cope with the demands of the schedule. So in a way, I think in the long term, if players' careers are definitely potentially going to get a little bit shorter because of the burnout aspect, I think everyone's a loser, you know? Yeah, it's tough as fans and viewers watching the sport when you know somebody doesn't want to be there. But, okay, for example, Lorenzo Mazzetti has described this quest for trying to qualify for Turin. He's described it as a nightmare, right?

46:20He's played every week since the US Open. It's tough to watch somebody kind of put themselves through that. Yeah, and there's no way someone who's, I think, what is he, six or seven in the world and a great player should be calling it a nightmare. You know, why? Like, he's giving so much to the sport. He's, you know, I know Lorenzo is so professional. He's got a great family, great team around him. And it's like, there's no way he should be saying it's a nightmare. And, you know, I think the whole point of the tour is to get these players to, sorry, the whole point of One Vision, for instance, is to get the players, entice them more to play the bigger events.

46:59But because the rankings breakdown hasn't changed and the points system, you know, you've got guys like Lorenzo who are just pushing every week, you know, whether it's the Masters 1000s or the 250s or the 500s to get to that goal of Tarrant. And I don't know, it's just, it's tough to see, you know, young players putting themselves through so much and they're like, it's just, yeah, it's never ending. And I think we all are pretty much on the same page with you here and we talk about it a lot and it's really interesting to have your perspective as a player. And I think a lot of our listeners and fans feel the same.

47:37I just want to sort of try and put the other side to you and just sort of, I guess, what the ATP probably would say and how you would respond to this, I suppose. They would say that they've increased the length of these tournaments because players were demanding more prize money and they have been able to provide that, but at the cost of extending the tournament. So what would your response be to that? Would you rather have less prize money and shorter events, I suppose? Yeah, I mean, like I said, for me, I don't think this isn't about the money. Like I said, the ATP have had really good intentions, I think, trying to do that and players have really pushed for more money in the sport and stuff and they've tried to do that.

48:29But I think by doing that the way they have, it's kind of backfired a little bit because I haven't heard one player say they like it. I haven't had one coach say they like it. I haven't heard any players, sorry, any fans say they enjoy the system. And I think what's most important for the ATP is that the players are the most important asset here. and so if something isn't working then we need to be able to speak and come to some solutions here obviously they'll talk about the exhibition chat you know you've obviously got these these tournaments but then you're going to go and play exhibitions I think for the guys who are playing in between Madrid and Rome playing an exhibition then if they're complaining about the schedule they have no leg to stand on at all myself I'm obviously playing two exhibitions at the end of the year but I'm really not a fan of exhibitions at all you know I play because I want to compete for something I suppose I'm playing them at the end of the year because I want to just get some matches for next year and to feel fresh to feel good and I'm played one since 2023 and and you've got the Saudi event which I think people need to have a bit more common sense around because if you were a player if you're in a player's position and it's the highest prize pool in tennis then it's really hard to turn that kind of opportunity down and I know it's one of those it's like why would you do that why would you go there but the way the ATP are structuring things especially with the Masters 1000s and the the punishment if you don't go and play all the Masters 1000s it's like this year Yannick and Carlos will have be the heads of the bonus pool they'll be the head to that but because they've missed three events they're gonna pretty much lose out on all of it apart from their performance bonus which will be very high so it's like they'll make more money in one night of work as opposed to a whole year of work playing the Saudi event so it's it's it's really tough if you don't know the ins and outs of tennis and the ATP will always say you know you can pick and choose your tournaments you can do this you can do that but that's not saying the whole truth and that's a naive approach because you have to understand the mindset of a player and the mindset is you want to keep on going in the rankings and it does also seem a bit different from where like for where you are in the rankings for example like sinner this year obviously missed a load of events when he was suspended but then like he chose not to play uh canada this year that meant that he misses out on his bonus pool yeah but like as you said he can then sort of top that up with a couple of days work in saudi arabia gets that money he's playing an exhibition in south south korea isn't he started next year without koreas he's going to get exhibition offers and opportunities but i suppose for the players who are ranked you don't even have to go that far down the rankings probably and they i guess what you're saying is they really do feel like missing out on the bonus pool is a big punishment and therefore they are really pushing themselves to to play tournament after tournament even if it's having a sort of adverse effect on 100 i mean i think people like um carlos and janik they've kind of transcended the sport um you know very recently and they've kind of earned that right to you know go and play Madison Square Garden, sell out the arena in one night and play up to the crowd.

52:05It's very different to a tournament week. You know, it's very different to being physically and mentally at a tournament and dealing with the pressure to be in there, the interviewers, like they've earned that right to go and do that, I think. And that's very different. And you see that a lot. It's like, why is Alkraas saying that? But yeah, he's going and playing an exhibition here. It's very different, you know. I think as a low-ranked player, the bonus pool is really important. And I think the punishments are tough with that. But at the same time, obviously with the additional days that they've said, you've got to think about the financial cost of your coaches, your family on the road, the other people.

52:48So it's like there is a lot of expense of the players as well. It's not just all you're getting in your pocket. You're also spending a lot more by being away a lot of the time. So there are other aspects to it. I think, like I said, from someone who loves the sport and someone who really wants the sport to go in a really good direction and wants the sport to have the best product and for players to be happy, there's this never-ending discussion around schedule. And it needs the players to come together, which I know a lot of people are on board with already. It needs to kind of get out of the media and get out of these sort of things.

53:27So it's not just like he said, she said stuff. And it needs to come together and we need to be able to sit in front of Gardenzian and have a proper conversation around where this whole thing is going and come to some happy mediums and happy solutions. Because, like I said, there's a lot of really good things that are going on, but most of it is at the expense of a player and it's not properly thought through, I don't think. Do you feel like there is unity from the players on this? Because there's ATP Players Council, isn't there? There's the PTPA. There's Yannick's obviously very hot on this issue with the Grand Slams and the letter that was signed by both sets of top 10 players.

54:15Did you sign that letter? Yes, I did. And that's about appealing to the Grand Slams for greater prize money and player welfare. like it just feels like there's a lot of different sort of entities sort of fighting for a lot of the same things but it's it's quite fragmented do you feel that as well like do you feel do you feel represented do you feel like you and the players have a proper united voice who do you feel like represents you in the sport i mean literally it is so fragmented and that's that's the biggest problem in tennis is that the ATP, the ITF, the WTA, the Grand Slams, they're not on the same page.

54:55They don't communicate well with each other. They're not aligned at all. And so you don't know who you're going to. You don't know who you're listening to. There's so many decisions being made without the player's voice or without the players being heard. And I think there's been a real growing frustration. I do think the addition of the 12-day Masters has really made that come to life. And I think players in my generation have sort of, yeah, definitely looked to kind of come forward and try and speak up about it and try and learn more about where tennis is at and the situation it is, because I suppose the Grand Slams have really increased their prize money, but still their revenue share is still at a really low level to the players.

55:44so we're trying to seek for more transparency on that and try and understand that more also and where the ATP do an amazing job is the player pension part you know player mental health support just being a tennis player in general like the the Grand Slams don't contribute to that at all and the Grand Slams are the biggest tournaments in in our sport and and the most well-known ones like they should be, I believe, and the players believe, contributing to that as well. And yeah, it's just having a seat at the table, I think, for the players. Having a seat at the table where we're able to put our concerns through, able to be a part of the decision-making instead of all the decisions being made.

56:29And it's like less noise, just all in one, all speaking together. and just so it doesn't feel like we're just constantly being pulled in so many different directions. I suppose some might say, well, you're on the tennis podcast, you're adding to the noise, you're adding to the he said, she said, rather than having the discussion altogether. Is your hope that by doing this, actually more players will step up and eventually a conversation has to happen? I think more and more people are. I think more and more players are getting that confidence to come forward. It's really tough, obviously. I think in the generation we're in, if you speak up, you're going to get criticism.

57:13You're going to get shot down. You're going to get people talk about you. And I feel like you've not got to be afraid to do that because I know myself the reasons why I'm doing this, why I've come forward to you guys, why I want to speak out about it. I want to get more players behind me, more players behind trying to come together, trying to advocate for positive solutions to make our sport better and make it better for the fans, make it just a better sport. And that doesn't necessarily always have to be about the money. You know, whenever players say something, you know, you've always got people saying, you know, you're a multimillionaire, shut up, you know, get on with it.

57:55And my generation would have done this and my generation would have done that. it's like The whole point of it isn't to complain, it's to advocate for positive solutions here. And I don't want to take this any further in the media or anything like that. I think it's just a good opportunity for me to come on here. Hopefully it gives other players confidence to speak out about it, let their voice be heard. And then ultimately coming together on the ATP side, on the WTA side, side and push the governing bodies to come together and really work on this for us and come to some happy medium what would you like to see it look like because here we are at 12 day masters which is two weeks of the calendar every time isn't it and and whatever time you have to put in beforehand you've you've expressed concern about burnout you know burning yourself out who knows maybe shortening careers as a result of it what do you want to see happen do you want it to go back to seven days i would like to see it potentially go down to nine ten eleven days and i think that is really a possibility um i believe i think that will give players more time to to prepare for tournaments more extra days to not be on the road all the time and then the big question is well to do that obviously the the revenue is not going to be the same because it's 12 days before and that's going to be less days I myself would say I would take a cut of that bonus pork to make it back to what it wants to be and if the I think if the players really want to push for changes they can't have their cake and eat it and if they really want to make the sport better and if they feel really strongly about this subject which I believe a lot of players do then they have to be willing to take potentially a cut of that and understand that the ATP have tried to do a really good job here and put the money in the players pockets but it's it's backfired and the players hate it so it's like where's the happy medium there um so I would like it to to go to maybe nine ten days if in a perfect world also feels like one of those cases where it's a classic example of everything being connected right because if the if the players do have to take a bit of a hit from the ATP side or maybe the Grand Slams can step up and give a greater percentage of prize money and you sort of make it up via the Grand Slams and then the ATP and WCA Tours have a kind of better schedule.

1:00:27It seems to me from the outside that if everyone were talking to each other and it was a more coherent ecosystem, that would be the case. Also, I'm just wondering what would an ideal off-season be like for you? I think this season, what the Davis Cup finals ends on 24th or something of November, and the new season starts right at the start of January. There's so little time there. If we're talking perfect world, which I realise is a tricky thing in tennis, what would that be? How much time would you like off to work on your game? I mean, I really don't know what's happened with the Davis Cup, to be honest.

1:01:08Obviously, that's the ITF. And I know a few years ago when I was coming up through the sport, you had the ITF made some decisions around the lower rank tennis. So you had to win eight futures to get into a challenger. I forgot what the tour was called, but it was called something they quickly reversed it. And around that time, they made the same decision around Davis Cup and all these sort of things. And it's really lost its aura, the Davis Cup now. and it's hard as a player because obviously the season's so long and to have it in the place that it's at, players want to play for their country.

1:01:43I love playing for my country. I love being a part of that team environment. But the truth is that I want to also be a top player and those periods where it's important to build your body for the next season. For instance, I think Yannick this year, he's not playing the Davies Cup, am I right? He's probably thinking, I've won Davies Cup twice this year I've had a long year I've had to deal with a lot of I've done well in the Grand Slams and I want to do a better pre-season I want to improve as a player I want to refresh and him and his team have clearly made that decision just to get better and become a better player and it's tough to see when someone gets criticised for something like that because it's like they clearly don't understand the sport and how it is so I'm really hoping that the ITF really look into the Davis Cup situation especially but I suppose I suppose in terms of a an off-season I'd say a month and a half you know would would be more than enough would be great just not two three four weeks I really don't think that's beneficial for anyone I think as a as a fan of the sport as someone who if I was just watching tennis I'd want it to be a bit more scarce i'd want it to be a bit more like more build-up like you're waiting for for the next event like you're waiting to see what how players have improved and what they're doing and i think it's become just so accessible like every week every every week there's a there's a there's a different match on there's a different tournament you can't follow it because three different places there's events and um i feel it kind of needs to just take a step back and realize that the product doesn't have to be out there all the time but if we can you know have a product that's out there for for when it's needed and not necessarily like just 24 7 that's that's really important yes big power in like missing something isn't there um do you do you ever worry that something it will take like a big shock for people to for the powers that be to kind of wake up and really do something about this.

1:03:59Like Matt quoted on the pod the other day, like when we were talking about this, Daniel Medvedev once said on the court in one of those like breaking the fourth wall moments, he was like, someone's going to die and then they'll see. Which is obviously very Daniel Medvedev. But like, I don't know, like the shocking, you remember when Bjorn Borg retired with burnout at 26 and that, 26? Yeah, that's right. And that rocked the tennis world. Do you worry that it might take something shocking, like a top player walking away with burnout or something like that or a horrible injury, for people to really wake up and act?

1:04:39I hope that it doesn't get to that. I hope it doesn't get to the point where shocking things have to happen for them to see and to come together and to really sort it out. I suppose that's what the players have been trying to do and that's, you know, I may not make any difference at all. But that's my intention is to try and speak out about it, try and get the players coming together to really push for changes so stuff like that doesn't happen. Because obviously in business there's a lot of agendas, there's a lot of different things going on. And if our sport is so fragmented and no one's talking to each other and no one's really thinking about the actual product and actual asset of their whole thing, then they need to understand that it's just not good enough and the wheels will come off.

1:05:36It's like going around a corner at 100 miles an hour. You can't do that. You have to slow down and then pick up again. And I really hope that that doesn't happen. But I think with the way it's going, I think you're likely to see some things. I mean obviously you're already seeing a lot of more pulling outs and more strange injuries and all these sort of things so mainly I'm just sick and tired of all the and I know I'm speaking about it now I'm sick and tired of all the all the chat around it and not enough coming together not enough unity not enough people trying to explain how they feel and explain the topics of this situation you know it's it's so hard I'm not a politician I'm not someone probably who's amazing at speaking stuff but I'm trying to explain it and trying to talk about it and like I said I'm not afraid of the criticism or things I might get because people always seem to get annoyed when athletes come out and they they speak and they try and they think it's complaining and all this sort of stuff like no it's just trying to understand that it's the players wanting to to push for positives and push the powers that be to talk to each other and and do the job that we hope they they can do and all work together you know and the thing is like the agendas i think are more aligned than people think like there's there's nothing better or more magnetic in the sport than watching somebody that you know loves tennis and loves what they're doing and hearing you even sort of say the possibility of speak about the possibility of falling out of love with the sport is obviously you don't want that no absolutely nobody wants that that's no good for anybody and that's that's quite a powerful thing for somebody that clearly loves the sport like to hear you talk about worrying about losing that love for it yeah and i think i think that goes back to the point of how frequent it is and how you know if there's never any stop to it like you can't miss it you can't go back to it so it's like you want to be in a position where you're constantly you know looking for that next challenge and looking to be motivated and and it doesn't have to be all the time like it's just a treadmill you know that that doesn't need to be the case here you know it should be a sport where you're looking forward to every big tournament you can play every big tournament and yeah you're going to pick up injuries and you're going to be mentally tired and all this sort of normal stuff but is there a way we can make the tour better in order to accommodate those things so it doesn't get to the point where a player does lose their love for the sport or does get a really bad injury like you know how can we think ahead and be proactive and not let this stuff happen and and I guess you know one thing I hear is that you know back in the day someone would have played 100 matches and 140 matches and stuff it's like people need to have an open mind that the sport has changed the reality of the I think I mentioned earlier the technology the the physical training you know there's there's no real like weaknesses in top players games now they move like crazy they're sliding around everywhere and the the point length is longer, the courts are slower, there's many different parts of that as well with how frequent it is.

1:09:08I just really hope that the power that be really listen and understand and want to also make a positive change and know that it's not always about pushing for more money and more days and events and stuff, just listen to the players. well be interesting interesting to see what happens with the conversation now whether the ATP have a response we've got a show on Saturday we'll we'll bring any we'll bring any follow-up and that's going to be it's going to be interesting right let's get into a few slightly lighter topics Jack um mixed doubles at the US Open how was that really enjoyed it I mean I wasn't I wasn't short to expect I think for me it was a bit of a different one because I was like I hadn't played in two months and I really wanted to use it as an opportunity to get out there and play so I felt like I was kind of playing a bit too intensely almost and a few people did mention that to me but that was good to be locked in you said it was good to be locked in but that was my mindset around it.

1:10:19It was like I really wanted just to be ready for when I played the singles to be like, alright, I'm here and I'm locked in. But no, it was incredible and especially the semi-finals playing on Ash at night. I'd never done a night session on Ash and the electricity of the stadium. I think it was a really positive thing they did and it definitely drew a lot of attention to the sport. Could you play again? I've heard the French Open might be interested in doing their own? 100 % I play again. 100%. I really enjoyed playing alongside Jessica Pagula. You know, like obviously in tennis, you don't speak to the players too often, especially on the women's side, because you're just so focused on doing what you're doing and you're so focused on being around your team.

1:11:12I think actually tennis players are quite introverted in many ways as well. so we don't do well with kind of like opening up and talking to each other it's a bit embarrassing and don't want to do any of that sort of stuff so she was a great personality i loved playing with her and um yeah i'd look forward to doing something like that again for sure when was your first chat with pagula before the doubles well i mean originally i was playing uh kui men zhang um i was looking forward to that and she had the elbow injury which she got surgery for so i mean I think she texted me she said I'm sorry that I can't play and I was just like don't worry about the mixed doubles just take care of your elbow that's absolutely fine play another time and then I think I was meant to play with Badosa and she had an injury as well so I was kind of thinking like am I going to get a curse?

1:12:00you were cycling through the am I going to get a partner? does anyone want to play with me? and then obviously Tommy Poole I think pulled out so Jasper Kula came came along I don't think I think it was like in the end that our agents set it up or something happened and I think the first time we spoke together was our first like practice session it was a bit awkward um and then you know the more we got to know each other on the on the courts like it was it was great fun do you think she'd have you back get the band back together I hope so I hope so you know I I've been been following her results she's obviously been playing of great tennis and she was a she was an unbelievable partner as well I mean I would say the first couple of matches I played well the third match not so great and the amount of time she was carrying me through I remember when we played against Alcraz you know she was taking down on some of those cross-court rallies and she was um she was amazing so um I wouldn't be if she went for a better partner then then I'd be okay with that did you um did you stick around and watched the final like how do you think you'd have done returning Sara Arani's serve you know I was watching yeah because Kasper Reid had a bit of trouble I was watching it on the TV I think it's a tough one because I think usually as the guys were used to standing so far back and sometimes the girls are using those slices really well right and it's staying really low and especially someone like me being a tall guy you have to kind of come up the court and it's a completely different ball you're receiving and it's really difficult to deal with, especially when Vavasori's, you know, bang over the net and he's just going to put a volley away.

1:13:39I think those two were very entertaining to watch. I really enjoyed watching them. And yeah, like it was a great watch. I watched it on the TV, but there was some great rallies in that match. How long does it take to get some sort of chemistry in a doubles like that? Because, I mean, you barely met each other before. I mean, did it come immediately? yeah I mean we're it's one of those it's kind of like trying to edge in a bit of chat here and there and um a few jokes you know definitely the change of ends and um yeah I don't I don't know it's one of those you kind of she's got quite dry humor as well um same as me so you kind of like what does she think what does she think of that and so I was just you're trying to sort of make a bit of chat when you can but I guess you're just bonding through you know playing alongside each other um is it right that nadal was your tennis hero correct yeah i just loved loved everything about him tell us what he meant to you if you can sum that well i look back i had all the kits you know i had all the kits um i just think his fighting spirit just the grunt you know his iconic style of play um I remember um when I played him 2023 I think you know the first set I was kind of playing against him and obviously I think he was injured that tournament but it was like I couldn't sort of get used to his grunt you know I was kind of like I'd never practiced with him before like and he's just my idol growing up and to be on the other side of the net from him was a crazy thing and I don't I wouldn't say I was sort of really getting pumped for loads of tennis matches even a couple years ago like watching people play and stuff but I would I'd watch him play and I'd be glued to the TV still because yeah who he is you know legend favourite Nadal kit did you have the three quarter lengths my favourite Nadal kit yeah I actually have a pair back home I pulled them out on court like two years ago I think I got laughed off so that wasn't ideal but no I think it was the 2000 I think it was 2008 when he won the French Green?

1:15:56Yeah was it the green one? No it was 07 was the sort of white and blue and then yeah I loved that kit in 08 I think he tore up the draw I think he lost about 20 games Yeah didn't he drop a bagel on Federer in the final? Yeah I mean the first few rounds I mean there's a famous video of Al Magro like it's very windy day and you know Nadal's taking him apart and he kind of like throws his racket up and he's like he's I don't know if he's speaking to his coach or someone in the corner he's like he's going to be winning Roland Garros 60 years to come like search it up on YouTube he's on YouTube he's like he's going to win Roland Garros until he's 60 or something like that and you know he wasn't wasn't wrong because he was still still battling and earlier you mentioned that word aura i'm wondering when you were playing nadal obviously it wasn't as you said it wasn't like peak nadal but like did you feel that aura that he brought onto court and is that like a real is that as much a challenge as as maybe the matchup for like young players coming up against these legends in the sport yeah of course it is i mean like it's the same for anyone when you idolize someone growing up and then all of a sudden you're in a spot where you're playing them.

1:17:09It's a bit weird. Like, you know, when you've watched them on TV since you were nine years old and then all of a sudden, like, you're in the changing room about to play them and, you know, they're doing their warm-up and they're getting their headband on and they're doing their crazy warm-ups. It's a bit... It's tough to focus on what you're actually trying to achieve and what you're actually trying to do. Your body's tense. I think I cramped up in that match because I was just... You know, I was thinking about it the night before all my friends are messaging me like you're playing it out and there's so much and maybe maybe it's a bit younger then so like I didn't know how to switch off from it um but definitely I can see that playing against those guys especially who have achieved you know complete greatness in the game you know even even Andy training with him all the time it kind of helped me training with him because if I just faced him on the court it would be a bit weird is aura is something you're conscious of like trying to create an aura like being an intimidating presence to the opponent down the other end yeah definitely definitely I think that's that's a big part of things you know is is I always try and think if I was if I was a player playing against myself then I'd want them to think this guy's not going to give up on any point he's got a great back and great forehand I want them to see no weaknesses you know and that's a big part why I'm not a massive fan of exhibitions because obviously when you do exhibitions the sort of the gladiator part comes out of it and you know i'll probably be playing the uts and look it's it's a it's a decent event and whatever but i'll be called the power and all this sort of stuff it's like i don't want don't want my competition sort of thinking me as like you know the power you know i want them thinking of me as like oh this guy is is is bang on it and and and he's not going to give me a point like maybe that's just my mentality maybe that's stupid but I definitely think that yeah it's a big part of tennis that and big part of any sport is like intimidation and and being there and and your opponent knowing that you're going to be a tough tough player to beat do you think you've ever mimicked Nadal at all given he was your hero you're a lefty you've got a lot of rotations on your ball some people sometimes say that forehand looks almost a little bit like it yeah have you ever in in a way thought right well he does it like this it must be the right way no i mean uh the only two things i've mimicked are the kit which didn't look great on me at all needed the long long hair couldn't do it um and also yeah tried to do the the grunt but i got my voice started cracking after very quickly sounded awful so there wasn't there's not really many ways you can mimic it and so you just get to the point where you're like right I've just got to try and be be the person I am you know um because I think that's why he's so iconic because he's one one one down you've um you've mentioned Andy a few times whenever I think of you two I think of that video video yeah yeah does that follow you around it does a little bit you know No, it does.

1:20:22He's an amazing character. Someone who obviously grew up watching on Sky Sports and watching all of those matches, all those crazy battles he had. And I love watching him play because you obviously had that entertainment where it's like, even if he was down, even if he was out, you just knew he was going to come back and you knew he was going to make a deal out of it or something was going to happen. and obviously along with just his fighting spirit and his talent for the game, his vision for the game was amazing. But then obviously getting to know him as a person, he's just very, very genuine, normal guy, very dry sense of humour.

1:21:04And yeah, he just makes me laugh, to be honest, because he's, yeah, really, I think all people who are playing a high level sport are a bit crazy in their own way. And I love seeing that. and Andy's definitely one of those. Did he check with you before posting that video? Andy? Yeah. No, to be fair, so I was going to get the train back from Manchester and then he said, oh, come back with me. I think I had a few sort of pints already. So I was like, yeah, we're good. And then I was like, immediately to him, I was like, let's get on, I'm going to get on the Orcs. So I got on the Orcs and I think I was winding him up a fair bit.

1:21:44And then I just sort of, I took a video and, you know, he's obviously there and he's like not enjoying it. And then, you know, we had a really good time, actually. Like it was one of those, we had like four hours in each other's company and like he was, you know, we were both singing a little bit. I said to him, how was my DJ? He gave me a seven out of ten. So, I mean, for him, pretty good praise. And he lived near me at the time, so just dropped me off. It was a weird one. But, yeah, I woke up in the morning and he'd obviously put it on his story and I had loads of different things. But yeah, it was quite fun.

1:22:18It's a great video. It's a great video. It's on my little list of videos I will go to if I need a funny little pick-me-up. It's fun. Yeah, it is good fun. What's Andy's role in your life now? Do you chat all the time? Do you meet up? Is he a significant figure? No, he's someone who I know I can always talk to, who I can turn to. My brother works with him as his agent at IMG. So obviously, you know, he's in contact with my brother. I sometimes ask how he's doing and vice versa. And the answer is he's playing golf. The answer is he's playing golf five hours a day. Actually, I really want to get my golf up to scratch, obviously, after my arm so I can go and do something with him.

1:23:06Because with Andy, I think you've got to compete against him to sort of really enjoy that situation. or maybe not enjoy it. But he, yeah, it's one of those, it's like, it's that person on your phone where you'll send him a random message or he'll send you a random message, like abusing each other or like just getting under each other's skin about something. And he's that sort of character. He's like a big brother who like is a friend, but also someone who I'm not, you know, not really in touch with loads. It's just like we pick off where we left off, you know. Did you talk to him about Jamie Delgado at all?

1:23:42and what are you excited a reference for that partnership yeah i mean andy and jamie obviously worked together for i think four or five years jamie did a great great job with them um i think andy obviously pete's 2016 with number one ranking delgues was a part of that so he's had obviously lots of experience with andy done a great job with grigel work with shapovalov for a little bit and And I think I just, I liked his personality. I liked the way he goes about tennis. I know Andy's really, really positive about him as a coach, him as a person. And I think a big part for me was, you know, culturally, I think Delgy being from the UK, a bit like my previous coaches, I've had, I'm not someone who likes to dip in and out of coaches.

1:24:27You know, when I have one, I like to, you know, I see it as my last coach almost. so I think it's a really really good change really positive really positive thing moving forward to me and and hopefully we can do an amazing amazing work together are there any things now like specifically that you're really targeting to work on with him yeah I think I think with my my coach still helping out a little bit currently trotters I think yeah after Wimbledon like I mentioned earlier like it's it was really important for me after that period like I've got to have more tools in my tool set you know I've got to be able to step up the court more I've got to be able to it's weird when I'm like when I'm for instance serving volleying on on the ad I don't serve and volley and when I watch myself playing I'm like wow I'm like getting so far out of the court like why am I not just forward that it comes from a place of fear and not have done it before really and not have practised it so I think I'm getting to the point with Delgi where all those things I'm willing to improve them and I think we're going to really focus on playing more of a 6 foot 4 player along with that other stuff and trying to be really positive because that's where the game's going these guys they're trying to shorten the points, trying to come forwards more, trying to be opposing on the other player and I think that's the main goal and do you when you you see our crowds and Cine doing what they've done this year and obviously you haven't been able to be a factor in that the last few months you were at the start of the year you were in the mix there with them I mean is it extraordinary to you what they're doing is it almost intimidating what they're doing and making you feel actually I'm going to have to raise higher than I am now if I'm going to hurt them or do you already think what you saw in the first half of the year could hurt them if you keep going the way you're going and have a good run of health?

1:26:29No look I mean what those guys are doing the top of sport their dominance I think has been incredible I think obviously Carlos is on six slams Yannick on four I think Yannick the last couple of years has been just incredibly consistent I think Carlos, you know, up until maybe March this year was obviously playing incredibly well in all the big tournaments. But there was a little bit more of a like, is he going to win this week? Is he not for someone who's ranked number one in the world? Where Cine, you kind of know he's going to really do well in the tournaments. But then Carlos really achieved that consistency this year and was just dominating every week as well.

1:27:06So I think they've really put it to the players that we're here and we're here to stay and we're improving all the time because we're pushing each other to be better than one another. So not only are you guys going to have to get to our level, but you're going to have to improve past that because we're constantly improving as well. So I think I'm still a long way from them in terms of what they've achieved on the court and also their experience in the big events and playing slam finals and all that kind of thing. But I'm a big believer that anything's possible. So I'm going to try and focus on what I can control, try and focus on getting fit, getting to the point where I'm competing week in, week out, again, giving myself the best chance of improving and gaining my confidence.

1:27:57And I think there's no reason why I don't see myself competing with those guys. We do Q &A shows quite a lot. and one of the most common questions that we get from our listeners is who's going to be the Djokovic, the third man in the Alcaraz, to enter the Alcaraz Sina kind of duopoly, the way Djokovic muscled into the Federer and Nadal thing. We get that question so much. It feels like that's quite a common topic of discussion in men's tennis at the moment. Are you like, I want that to be me? Of course, yeah. But I'm also aware that there's so many amazing young players. You know, you've got, just to put a few names out there, you've got like Fils, Fonseca, Mensip.

1:28:43You know, you've just got so many young players who are being so professional and being so focused on that goal as well. And also players like Medvedev and Rublev, Tisipas and Fritz, these guys as well, who are gunning for them also. So I think tennis is in a really healthy spot right now. there's a lot of healthy sort of competition to those guys but definitely you know with the way I saw my tennis going and with my trajectory from from being um at the spot I was to to then getting to a career high ranking um this summer I was feeling like I was improving all the time and I was getting closer I was still far away but I was getting closer so I feel like if I can just get back on court get doing what I can do out there again then it's gonna be hopefully I can close that gap even more you obviously like so ambitious so dedicated that involves a lot of sacrifice right do you ever sort of think about what you're missing out on do you ever crave a normal life no to be honest um you know I always knew that this is what I wanted to do um and I I think that I lived such an amazing life.

1:30:01I've traveled the world from a young age, sort of partying and all that was never my thing. Obviously I look at my uni friends now and they probably see me and they're like, wow, Jack, you've achieved some really great things. And I'm kind of like, yeah, but I'm seven years ahead of you because I kind of went into the adult world at 16. You're just going into that now. So I guess part of me is like, I understand why people would sort of see that. But I feel like, I guess any player who wants to be great at something, you kind of have to lose your mind a little bit. And you kind of have to be so focused and so ambitious on what you want to achieve.

1:30:45And most athletes are like that. And so we just, I think we just see the world a little bit differently. And it just makes the sacrifice worth it. um and also when you see the the proud faces of your grandparents and your your your mom and all these people it just makes it makes it worth it you know does that make it hard to know like what is an what is an unhealthy state of mind like if you have to be a bit unhinged to to be an elite athlete like how do you know like oh shit i'm in a bad spot here like this isn't okay I need some help or whatever like I don't know yeah yeah I mean it's a weird one I had this conversation with someone you know a couple days ago because they they know me and they said oh you know do you not do you not ever sort of sit back and think you know I've been a top player in the world and I've achieved so much and like just kind of give yourself a lot of credit for that and sort of take a step back and relax almost but the truth is that tennis and being an athlete is an amazing thing and achievement is great and success is great but my mindset has always been I've got to keep on moving forwards and that stuff is great and the process of it is almost better than the win the the the main thing is living the life that I'm doing and being around physio and my snc trainer who I have a laugh with and being on the court and striving for that goal it's not necessarily about the success and some of it is like it's not actually that fulfilling when you get to that point you know you've got to do some other stuff around it you've got to live a life where you're being fulfilled by other things and not just not putting all your worth on just being the tennis player because it's hitting a ball over the net you know it's not what i'm saving lives out there madison keys talked about that didn't she after winning the australian open like the the therapy process of like realizing if you're looking for a trophy you're an achievement to fill you up it's never going to and and almost that realization being the trigger for her then being able to win the trophy 100 100 and and i think that takes pressure off you i think if you because at the end of the day like no matter what you achieve and stuff unless unless you're winning grand slams if you're not a good person alongside with that then you know the the achievements are the achievements no one really gives a shit everyone's so focused on their own lives and their own problems and their own things going on so yeah I think if you put all your worth in that it's a dangerous dangerous road to go down how do you relax how do you not think about tennis um try and spend time around my family my dog I do normal like watch Netflix like I'm just very normal like going going for walks I mean I'm 23 it sounds so so weird but that's the thing that's the thing in sport you have to grow up so quickly and you have to get used to a different way of life very very early on um so so yeah i suppose there isn't a lot of time to rest because there's always stuff going off on off court sorry there's always things that need your attention and responsibilities and that sort of thing but i try and um just do normal things when i get time any netflix book set recommendations i think i think i've watched a fair few um i'm at the point now where i'm just scrolling on netflix and i'm i'm not giving anything a chance anymore like it's too much just like rubbish rub i haven't even given it a chance like i'm going but i'm doing that thing that people do they go back to the stuff they've watched already and just get 20 minutes of something of a film they've watched their favorite part of the film they watched 20 minutes of that and that's that's good but um i think the last couple things i watched mob land which is on um parallel plus really good tom hardy doing an accident in it yeah is that is that not a good i haven't seen it i've heard about the accent what in not a good way well he's irish and he's doing an irish accent but but badly apparently I don't know it said on one of your bios that you you wouldn't have minded being a detective yeah I was just about to mention that one that's a bit more like mature in that Silent Witness I've been watching that a little bit oh a classic wow okay actually no but it's it's you know it's good old school old school and it's the good storylines good bit of time to watch them yeah I enjoy that stuff and to the point there yeah I've always been fascinated by that stuff.

1:35:25Are you into the traitors? The traitors? Yeah. What's that? Oh, Jack. Can I hear about the traitors? Even I know what it is. What's it on? BBC. BBC, yeah. Yeah, it's the best show on television ever. What's it about, though? You'd love it as a detective wannabe. It's a reality show. It's a reality show. Don't, I know. But I've already lost one, man. No, no, no. Sorry, I take that back. I'm not really on that. I'd have reacted like that as well. I'd have told me that. Reality. Just give it a go. Traitors, yeah? Yeah, traitors. You must have heard of it. No? Really? I've literally never heard of it.

1:36:01People in cloaks? In cloaks? Yeah. I'm kind of not really... I've heard it's reality TV, people in cloaks. I've lost the... You know what? How many episodes do I need to give it a chance? Oh, one, and you'll be hooked. If you're not hooked after one, it's not for you. There's something wrong with you. So I'm the iPlayer. Go back to episode one, series one. And I did it just two weeks ago after telling these two I will never watch it. And you enjoyed it? I'm into season two, episode eight. My next question is, would you go on Celebrity Traitors? I think I can safely ditch that question. Celebrity Traitors.

1:36:36Sorry, is this the one where they go and they're able to sort of be non-detected or something? Yes, exactly. They're like all in the castle and some of them are traitors, the others are faithful. You've explained that so badly. You've got reality TV with people with capes. Are you a good liar? Not really, to be honest. I can't, yeah. You'd be a faithful then. Faithful? Is that like a traitor? You'd be a bad traitor like me. They tell me I would be a terrible traitor. But you could use your enthusiasm for detective work to try and figure out who the traitors are. And why is it... You've got to figure out who's lying.

1:37:11Why is it called traitors though? Why is traitor a part of it? So there's like a group of 20 people and three are chosen to be traitors. Okay. And they have to keep that a secret and the others have to figure out who the traitors are. Okay. And we as the audience know who the traitors are. So we're listening in on all their conversations, trying to come up with their theories and all that kind of thing. Nice. It is great. All right, I'm going to get into that. I promise you it's great. I'm going to get into that. BBC. Yeah. Traitors. This is real proof that you're not on social media. Yeah, because it's...

1:37:42Is it new, is it? It's the only thing on social media. Yeah, it's all my algorithm is fake. Yeah, that's because probably all you're talking about is the ears. Right, exactly. I've got to ask you about your dog. Yes. Tell me about him. Aussie, yeah, big part of family life now. I think we never had a dog. And then about six years ago, I said to my mum, we're getting one. And no to like, I can't look after it or anything. We're just going to do it. And I had no experience of animals at that point. and then actually getting one and understanding how much love and how much just affection they give.

1:38:22And it's just like you can't imagine your life without them. You know, my mum sort of, I'm like the third in the family now. I've got Ozzy the dog, my brother, and then me. So it's like you're kind of down the pecking order. What's that? Why is your brother ahead of you? Just the oldest, isn't he? He's the oldest. and so like well Ozzy the dog he's he's the oldest now because he's what 56 and dog is whatever it is so he's like a middle-aged middle-aged man now but he's he doesn't act like one he's very cheeky he's got a proper personality about him um and I think yeah it's just amazing like when you have a tough day tough day at work or tough day with anything like I mean most days I'm on the phone to my mom and I'm just like I don't even know one I don't know one know how she's doing just want to know how the dogs do is he is he good on facetime billy jean's a good facetimer yeah my mom sometimes will send me a message like a photo and it will just be like my dog and then it'll be like calling and then it would like obviously i've missed the call and she'll just put like aussie called um so no it's we've got a really special relationship with um with my dog and i think Animals just in general just give you so much life, you know, and that's such an amazing feeling.

1:39:43Billie Jean is a similar age though, right? She turned five yesterday. Right. Had the pleasure of meeting her. She was lovely. She's a good one, yeah. She is. She liked meeting you, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we got good reports. She did bark at you. She did. It was a tough start, but then. Yeah, but she's protective. You know, this is good. She's protective.

1:40:09I've got nowhere to go from Billie Jean. The one-point slam? I've already pitched the one-point slam, Jack. We've already gone here. Have I persuaded you on the one-point slam? I think you have, yeah. I think you have. I think tennis needs more crazy bits to it. It's like you want to watch something that you haven't really watched before and to see what was the concept. it was like top players playing one point against, was it club players or just? Club players, yeah. So they can play. They're not, you know, they know how to hold a racket. I just think, yeah, it's an interesting concept and something, especially in Australia, they'll be lapping that out.

1:40:48They'll be loving it. So I think it will be, I think it's a positive thing. I think it's interesting. I'm kind of interested from your point of view as a pro, if you're playing the one point slam, would you rather serve and have one serve or receive but know that they've got two serves? Which do you think gives you the greater edge? I don't think Jack's worried about edge over Australia's So you'd have one serve if you were the pro So the pros only get one serve I think return I think I'd be on the return Yeah, put the pressure on them Chance of a double fault is quite high Especially if there's a lot of people watching they probably may have not had that before and it's tough to bang down a good serve or something.

1:41:36They'll probably want to get that first serve in, so they'll roll it in. I just think, yeah, if you put the emphasis on your one serve, it's just a bit embarrassing if you go out like that. But then, yeah, and I want to see them at least hit one ball. Right. I think that's the right answer. Like, we talk about this and we're like, we would not want to return. if it is for money and stuff like million but the organisers are going to be very gone if like a guy just rocks up onto court and a player misses one serve and they've got however much money they've got doesn't really you know you've got to actually like put one ball in court right yeah I think I agree Jack I look forward to seeing you in the one point slam in January Catherine would like a cut of your earnings for persuading you to play just you can figure that out I feel like I should have a cut of whatever Tennis Australia are making for the one point slam for the advocacy work that I'm doing Catherine's arrival onto court when they were playing the one point slam last year she couldn't have been more cynical less interested and within about 10 minutes it's important to be able to admit when you're wrong yeah of course you've got to front it up Jack it's been such a pleasure thank you so much for your time thank you guys and thank you for spreading really positive message about tennis to be around people who actually love the sport and who sort of are following the players all the time, you know even like when we had a little break for one second there you're looking at Turin and you're passionate about what's going on and I think you share that love for it the same as I do and all your listeners as well, it's a real pleasure to be here and to get to know you guys all amazing people so thank you, look forward to seeing you around Likewise, thanks Jack See you in Australia Yep, see you there