US Open Day 13 - Is Ben Shelton The Guy?

16:47Matt Roberts:Would you have said he would in 2022?

16:49David Law:I would have been surprised if he hadn't. At that stage, I would have backed him to get to a final. To be honest, we can probably go back and find the tape.

16:58Matt Roberts:We did do a podcast.

16:59David Law:I suspect I wouldn't have expected him to have a sudden drop-off, for instance, straight afterwards, and these dips and these troughs. Maybe that's naive of me, but I kind of thought he'd had such a taste for it got Wayne Ferreira, who's such a, you know, a taskmaster. And I really thought this would be a steadier climb. And actually, it's ended up being a roller coaster. So yeah, I think I would have had more confidence back then than I do right now for him.

17:25Matt Roberts:Where are you left feeling about Tiafoe, Matt?

17:28Catherine Whitaker:Very similar, really. I'm so impressed with the work that he's put in over the last year and And working with Mark Kovacs and doing his hard 75 at the end of last season, which sounds awful, by the way. What is that? It's like a program where for 75 days you don't eat any junk food and you work out twice a day and one of them has to be outside. And you have to do 10 minutes of mindfulness reading or something. 10 minutes of reading a day. Every day. Wow.

17:58Matt Roberts:And if you fail on any of them on any day, you have to go back to the start. you go back to zero and you have to get to 75.

18:07David Law:Wow, I did not know.

18:09Catherine Whitaker:Goodness me. And he did that. And, you know, I think that helped, you know, 75 days. It became a habit. It became a routine. It's now just now what he's doing. But he needed that kind of jump start to get into it. And, yeah, I'm so impressed with the way he has just come again this year after those tough losses at Roland Garros and Wimbledon. And this has been, you know, for my money, this has been actually the closest he's felt to a US Open final, I suppose. I know he went five sets in his other semifinals, but against Alcaraz, he was so clearly hanging on in 2022. And against Fritz, we had the real fade and when nerves overtook him, it didn't feel like that today.

18:54Catherine Whitaker:It felt like he was really in the match for the whole match and playing well. but Shelton was a better player and I think he's going to keep running into better players. There's a few of them out there but he's in a position to potentially qualify for the ATP finals which I wouldn't have necessarily thought before for Francis Tiafoe that that was on. He's putting together a really nice career and season but if you ask me whether he'll win a slam, I would say no. But a big part of that is because of, you know, the people we've still got to come back to men's tennis and Alcaraz at full force and Yannick Sinner back from injury.

19:38Catherine Whitaker:I hope it's not going to look like this every year. You know, I hope Alcaraz and Sinner are at full force because I want to see it.

19:48Matt Roberts:OK, well, we'll talk more about Shelton once we've addressed who his opponent's going to be in Sunday's final. And when we come back in part two, we'll talk about Alexander Zverev and his route through to a first US Open final. But just before we do head into part two, folks, we want to share a word and a special offer from our sponsors at Steve Fergal's International Tennis Tours. The premium hospitality and experience provider. Now, if the Miami Open is on your tennis bucket list and it is on Matt's, I believe, is it not, Matt?

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21:12Matt Roberts:Just head to toursfortennis.com forward slash podcast. That's tours, the number four, tennis.com forward slash podcast. Click the Miami Open banner and use the code DEUCE5, that's D-E-U-C-E-5, for 5 % off your choice of official travel packages. Welcome back to part two of today's tennis podcast. Let's talk Alexander Zverev, the top seed, into his first US Open final with a victory over the unseeded Russian Karen Hashanov. 6-3, 7-6, 7-6. In the words of Ava Wallace from The Athletic in her write-up of this, she said, Zverev grinds down Khashanov in three mostly turgid sets.

21:55David Law:Yeah, I'd say that sums it up pretty well. I mean, you know, it was hard going, I've got to be honest. I mean, I'm mindful that I've made it very clear over the years that Alexander Zverev is not my favourite person or tennis player on the tennis circuit for well-documented reasons. But the fact is, when you combine the sort of style of play that he has, the interminable ball bouncing, which is up from 14 per go, 12 to 14 French Open in Wimbledon, up to 22 every time he goes to hit a serve. To everything, really, that was going on today and the lack of ups and downs, really, I find him a very hard watch.

22:49David Law:But I also am extremely impressed with his ability to win, even when he's nowhere near at the level that he was, say, at Wimbledon when he reached the final, when I think he was absolutely explosive and brilliant in that tournament, particularly in the last stages, and he very nearly beat Yannick Sinner, a good Sinner in the final. Karen Khashanov only lost three points more than, only won three fewer points than Zverev. It was 107 to 104. It was incredibly close and yet it was straight sets, which tells you everything. Khashanov said himself, Zverev won the important points and that's what he does.

23:32David Law:That's what makes him such an incredible champion.

23:35Catherine Whitaker:Yes, I felt like for the first set and a little bit of this match, Zverev was clearly the better player. He was just more in control of his game. Hakchanov, I think, was trying to figure out mostly what to do with his forehand. He kept overhitting it quite a lot and Zverev actually went up a set after a really cheap service game from Hakchanov to give away the break. And then he went up a break, Zverev, and it really felt like he could potentially cruise to it. But actually, I think from that point on, I felt like actually Hachinov was the better player generally for the match and a little bit more convincing up until the big moments.

24:15Catherine Whitaker:And there were a few big moments. We had two tie breaks in the second and third sets. And, you know, Hachinov had a 5-3 lead in the second set tie break and he had a 6-4 lead in the third set tie break. So with two set points there to push it to a fourth. and both times a very similar thing happened, which was that either Hachinov would get the ball that he wanted and shank a forehand and just mishit it, or Zverev would create one of those interminable rallies, 20, 30 shots, and you're waiting for Hachinov to hit the ball and come in. You know, he had so many opportunities in this match, Hachinov, to finish points at the net, and he was just not doing that, and Zverev was hanging back, hanging back, trading from the baseline, creating the sorts of rallies that he wants, you know.

25:11Catherine Whitaker:And if the second semi-final was dynamic and energetic and electric, this one was much more turgid and slow and defined by Khachanov not stepping up in those big moments and Zverev playing them the way he wanted to and yeah, it was like three hours and it felt like it came down to just a few points here and there in those two tie breaks and Zverev played them better but he didn't exactly sort of go out of his way and win them with the sort of tennis he was playing at Wimbledon. It was what we've been talking about, waiting for someone to step up and beat him and no one has done it yet and Hachinov you can add to the pile of players here and at Roland Garros.

26:04And I do wonder with Zverev, you know,

26:08Matt Roberts:he's not stepping up and playing the more bullying, aggressive tennis that we saw from him, particularly at Wimbledon, because he hasn't needed to yet. You know, Keren Hachinov today, it's wild how allergic to the net he is. Like, he just absolutely knew that Hachinov, Hashanov, he wouldn't even come to the net to pat away, you know, the easiest volley in the world. He just would not go there. He was retreating on mid-court balls that, you know, good players shouldn't be doing that. He should be more comfortable in the forecourt with easy, you know, cheap putaways. And so Zverev knows he can just hang back.

26:54Matt Roberts:He knows he doesn't need to take the risks.

26:57Catherine Whitaker:And he knows that Hashinov doesn't have a drop shot.

26:59Matt Roberts:Exactly. Like, he was just so comfortable in that match-up, I think. And I know you could say 107 to 104. That doesn't look comfortable, but he knows Karen Hashinov. He knows what is likely to happen to him in the biggest points, in the biggest matches of his life, in one of the biggest matches of his life. And I do just wonder if just because we've seen Zverev play this way so far, it doesn't mean he's playing badly necessarily. He's just playing as well as he's just playing the way that he's needed to. He's very pleased with how he's playing.

27:39David Law:He wasn't at the start of the tournament.

27:41Matt Roberts:He said, I think, after the second best of five set, second five set match, he got embroiled in late at night. he was sitting around the locker room laughing with his team about how shit he was playing, said that in an on-court interview. But in his press conference after this match today, he was talking up how pleased he is with being able to play himself into form over the course of a Grand Slam. He thinks he's playing well now.

28:09Catherine Whitaker:I mean, it is a very, very trait, as you say, to just do almost the minimum amount to win, you know? He has an uncanny ability to do that and just be a little bit better than his opponent and better in big moments. It's very anti what Roger Federer used to do, which was, well, if I can beat you easily, I'm going to do that. I'm going to put on a show. I'm going to beat you in an hour and a half. And I'm going to have made it through to the final after about eight hours court time. Zverev is responsible for some of the longest amount of time on court to reach the latter stages of tournaments. He's always been like that.

28:52David Law:It's the most time that anybody has taken to reach a US Open semifinal. Right. 16 at hours plus.

28:58Catherine Whitaker:And that's what he does. He just is a little bit better than the opponent all throughout. And he did that in the final, Roland Garros as well. He was just a little bit better than Flavio Caballi that day. And he sort of managed Kabbali's peaks and thought, OK, you're not going to be able to sustain that. If I keep myself at this level, I'm probably going to do it. And that is the task for Ben Shelton. He's got to rise to the occasion because you know that Zverev is going to be there consistently, steadily. I don't think he's going to blow Ben Shelton away. I really don't because he's not doing that to anyone.

29:37Catherine Whitaker:but the question is can Shelton deliver in biggest moments in a way that for example Hakshinov just couldn't today?

29:48Matt Roberts:Should we talk about the ball bouncing?

29:50Catherine Whitaker:Oh yeah, please.

29:50Matt Roberts:He's finally been asked about it, an opponent has finally been asked about it he finally received a time violation for it today it took until the latter stages of the second set by that point I was counting the ball bounces sometimes it was down at 15 14 15 but towards the business end of sets and at this point the the point where he got the time violation he was on 24 and he was still going i mean he says he doesn't know he's doing it and there's no rhyme or reason to when he decides to stop bouncing and to serve it's he's just totally in kind of flow state there's no conscious decision making going on there but karen hushanov in quite a polite way because i think he's got a good relationship with verev said it really is annoying and it really is off-putting and he said

30:48David Law:it's not only me who thinks that um there were only two of us in that press conference myself and one of the journalists who who was the one who referenced the ball bouncing initially and he was very quick to say, look, it is irritating. I'm not the only one who thinks that. The problem is that you think he's ready to serve and then there are another 12 ball bounces and you do your split step again and you don't know when you're going to be returning. I said to him, he said, look, but he's not doing anything wrong. It's in the laws of the game. Unless he goes over the time, he's not doing anything wrong and obviously and and to my knowledge and i've seen all his various matches to my knowledge that's the only time violation he's had all tournament which is a joke i said i said to khan hashanov i was watching that clock throughout this match and several times it hit zero and zverev was still bouncing the ball and he hadn't started the serve and i said would you like to see umpires be more on this and warning him more often and again the type of guy he is he said look i don't i don't like it when other players call me out or call you out to the umpire so i don't want to do that to him or to anybody else but quite clearly he was pissed off with this as a general thing and it shouldn't be up to him it was up to damien de mesoir in the chair and i'm afraid then they're just not doing their job these umpires and they need to be on it and and i'd love to see what shelton's going to do about this because he was coming up and complaining about things with tiafo's time management and and he'd be well within his rights to to be complaining about zveria if this thing sort of thing because the moment he was given that warning the crowd erupted didn't they they were they were applauding and cheering it was the biggest vibe of the match

32:46Matt Roberts:the crowd reaction to that call by the umpire because it felt like validation. It was like, right, you are seeing this then. You are experiencing, you know, it felt like the whole crowd was sort of looking at one another over the course of the match going like, this is a bit much, isn't it? But, oh, no one's saying anything about it, so I guess it's allowed. And then the umpire calling it was like, right, okay.

33:14David Law:You could have been doing something about this.

33:16Matt Roberts:Yeah, but this isn't okay. We don't necessarily have to be subjected to this torture. So, yeah, I think it could be a feature of Sunday's final, big time. I don't think Ben Shelton's going to have the same reluctance that Karen Hashinoff had today.

33:36Catherine Whitaker:Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben Shelton is instructed by his team, almost to make a point of it as soon as it happens and try and get on top of it early. Yeah, because it clearly is sort of effective for Zverev and helpful for him and bothering opponents. Yeah, I agree. I think we could well be talking about ball bouncing again on Sunday.

34:03David Law:It takes the steam out of a match while he's doing it. It's a bit like a footballer who gets a free kick and time wastes a bit. And again, it's very clear that he doesn't know why he's doing it. He acknowledges that he is doing it, but he doesn't know why. And I can't tell you that I think he's doing it deliberately. I don't think he's... I don't even actually think he is trying to do that. But it's still bloody annoying. But he can be not doing it consciously or sort of intentionally as a tactic

34:35Matt Roberts:and yet also be aware of the impact, the negative impact it has on opponents. He's not trying not to. Exactly.

34:42David Law:The one thing I would say is that I'm not entirely sure it helps Ben Shelton to be trying to police this in the final rather than keeping his own mind on his own job. And that's another issue here. I mean, he shouldn't have to, of course. No, but it might be better if he just gets on top of it early.

35:04Catherine Whitaker:make the point to the umpire early yeah rather than just let it become a thing that frustrates him and then because what frustrates me about it is so often the umpires wait until set point so it's almost like they're trying to do it in the biggest moment to make the biggest impact actually i think the biggest impact would be if you if you called it the first time it happens earlier in the set and then they're they're not going to do it because the punishment is quite clear like you if you do it again you will lose a serve and they don't they don't want that um So, yes, I... God, it's tedious, isn't it, talking about ball bouncing?

35:37Catherine Whitaker:My God.

35:37Matt Roberts:Yeah, do join us for Sunday's post-men's final pod when we'll definitely be talking about ball bouncing again.

35:43David Law:Honestly, the amount it was discussed in our Five Live BBC Radio commentary, because what can you do? It's just happening, you know, how many... He was laughing about the statistic that had come up on the screen about the thousands of ball bounces that he's done throughout this tournament. but he seemed to be the only one who was laughing in the press conference. The rest of us are just thinking, do you know what, mate? It's really dull. We all want you to stop, really. And you seem to find it all hilarious but the rest of us and the 24 ,000 people in the crowd are just thinking, will you please get on with the bloody match?

36:21Matt Roberts:But I'll reiterate,

36:23Catherine Whitaker:do join us on Sunday for the pod. It's strange to me how there's been a regression for Zverev from Wimbledon. And I know it might just be he's not feeling the ball as well, that he's just not in as good form, maybe he doesn't like these conditions as much. I don't know. I think he's surprised as well. Right, but I think one of the things that was frustrating about the French Open is it didn't feel like Zverev had made a step in his game to suddenly become a Grand Sam champion. That big question of men's tennis, who's going to be the next guy? You wanted someone to step up. And actually what ended up happening was Zverev was obviously very consistent and that is a skill in itself.

37:08Catherine Whitaker:But he was there to kind of pick up the pieces. It didn't feel like he'd changed the way he was playing. It's just that suddenly he wasn't having to face Sinner and he wasn't having to face Alcaraz. Then at Wimbledon, he really did play a lot better, a lot more, he was a lot more interesting to watch.

37:26David Law:He was all the things that he said he wanted to be at the start of the year.

37:30Catherine Whitaker:And now we're back here again. And, yeah, it's to your point, Catherine. Maybe it's just because he hasn't needed to do it at all and maybe we'll really find out in the final. But, God, it's been a slog to sort of get this far.

37:52Matt Roberts:It's crazy that we're talking about a guy that could end the year world number one. Yeah. In the live race, he's on equal points with Yannick Sinner.

38:03David Law:And, I mean, look, he has been brilliant this year in terms of his consistency. He has threatened Sinner. He has threatened Alcaraz at the start of the year in the Australian Open. He has clearly raised his floor and he's also raised his ceiling. Not all the time, I don't think, because I don't think he somehow managed to get to the final of this tournament. And I still don't think he's playing that well. What I would say, so listen, fair play to him if he finishes world number one. We all understand the caveats, the five months out from our crowds, the injuries to Sinner, all the rest of it. But what I would say is if Ben Shelton wins this title, he is the guy who's made that step towards becoming the third guy.

38:52David Law:He may not be ranked as high as Verev, but he will have been the one to step out of the shadows and grasp this and improve himself and beat Al Karaz. Bear in mind, Verev has not beaten Al Karaz or Sinner all year. He hasn't done it once. Shelton's done it at a Grand Slam in a final set tie break that is proper and if he goes and backs it up by winning this title and I tell you there's so much on his shoulders you know you could tell that in his interview with Chris Eubanks he could very easily struggle with that it could go either way he could be inspired by it and play out of his mind he could just be weighed down by the sheer enormity of it What he's playing for, Chris Eubanks said, you're the first black man since 1972.

39:44David Law:Chris Eubanks said that to him. You're trying to be the first American man since Andy Roddick 23 years ago.

39:52Matt Roberts:You're playing in front of all your athlete heroes, and I'm sure even more of them will be in the house on Sunday.

39:59David Law:Absolutely. Ben Shelton didn't shy away from any of this. He said some very thoughtful words about 9-11 in the stadium today. He's kind of taken on all the roles, really, of the American flag bearer today. And I sensed that his voice was wobbling a little bit with it all. But his conclusion was, I'm going to need you all with me and I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go for this title. You said gunning for it. That's what he's going to go do.

40:35Matt Roberts:OK, well, we'll have more opportunity to preview that final, that match between Zverev and Shelton. We'll get predictions tomorrow in tomorrow's show after the women's singles final. And that is what we'll look ahead to in part three and also wrap up some other results from Friday here at Flushing Meadows. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. just before we look ahead to tomorrow, the women's singles final. Some other big results from today here at the Billie Jean King National Tennis Centre. We watched the women's doubles final inside the Arthur Ashe Stadium and we watched history.

41:14Matt Roberts:Katerina Siniarkova and Taylor Townsend completing the Korea Grand Slam. Katerina Siniarkova completing the Korea Grand Slam for the second time with a second different partner. She is the first player, man or woman, to do that. So poor old Taylor Townsend, completing the career Grand Slam, incredible achievement, totally eclipsed by Sini Arcova, her partner, who's casually doing it for the second time. They beat Robin Montgomery and Aisling Kruger, the wildcard pair, who won the junior title together in 2021. so a lovely story them getting to the senior final this year. 5-7, 6-love, 6-2. Got off to a very slow start here, Siniarkova Townsend, but actually once they found their footing in this match, it was quite one-sided.

42:10Catherine Whitaker:Yes, it was. They were 4-1 down in that first set. Siniarkova Townsend obviously ended up losing that first set, but they did make it competitive and from that point on they won 16 in the last 21 games, so really dominant. There was a period where it was tight right at the start of the third set and they came out on top of that period and then there was the final game where Sini Arcovo was trying to serve it out and was having a horrible time trying to do it. So many wayward ball tosses, missed serves.

42:48Matt Roberts:She was laughing at herself, wasn't she?

42:49Catherine Whitaker:They had the double break cushion and Townsend was seeing to things at the net and making sure that they weren't broken back. And they really do combine well. And yeah, that stat for Cinearchiva to have won two career slams with two different partners is crazy. Especially when you think how different Cray Chicova and Townsend are. not only in personality-wise, but also one's a righty, one's a lefty. And she's made that work. She's so adaptable. Some of the things that cost her a little bit in the singles, I think, hold her back, like the serve, I think, for example. She more than makes up for with her skills in doubles.

43:33Catherine Whitaker:There were so many times today when Kruger and Montgomery were trying to put the ball away at the net, and they would volley it at Sini Arcova, and Sini Arcova would have the hand skills to pick it back up. and they combine as a pair so well. And yeah, it was an interesting vibe in the stadium coming up against two Americans. But I did also sense that there was a lot of support for Townsend and Sinearca. Townsend is, you know, the bigger name. She's a big story here. And it was special to see a team complete the career slam. That's a very important moment in anyone's career if they get to do it.

44:10Matt Roberts:Yeah, they had matching bows in their hair, which I did enjoy. it's, you know, you should have matching outfits. Obviously, that should be a rule in doubles. But in the absence of that, in fact, totally clashing outfits is what they had. But I did like their matching bows. And it was, yeah, it was a really cool moment. I felt for Montgomery and Kruger that they really were gutted, weren't they?

44:32Catherine Whitaker:They were. And I think Montgomery especially. I think she felt like she didn't quite bring it to them.

44:37Matt Roberts:Yeah, it was tough. But they're young. Hopefully, they'll be back. Other results from today. We had the wheelchair doubles finals. Top seeds Alfie Hewitt and Gordon Reid won the men's wheelchair doubles final. They beat Martin de la Puente and Ruben Sparger in the second seeds. Great match this, 2-6, 6-3, 10-7. They had beaten yesterday Tiquito Oda and Gustav Fernandez in the semifinals. And Oda tomorrow is going for the calendar slam in the singles final against Alfie Hewitt. the calendar slam at the age of 20.

45:18David Law:Amazing. Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, I saw Takito Erdo had beaten Gordon Reid for the loss of a single game in the singles. You know, that's what tends to happen when those two face off these days. But then when they play in the doubles, it's usually Hewitt and Reid who get the better of them.

45:38Matt Roberts:Yeah, just incredible chemistry and understanding between those two as a partnership. And obviously Oda's already got the career slam, but going for the calendar slam, he's going to run out of sort of... And the gold medal. ...things to achieve. I mean, obviously just, you know, clocking up ridiculous records and using it as a platform to promote the sport and to promote disability sport as well. You know, that's obviously a huge goal for him, but an absolutely extraordinary feat he's going for tomorrow in that singles final. The quad wheelchair doubles final was played today, won by the second seed, Sam Schroeder and Jin Woodman.

46:22Matt Roberts:They beat Guy Sassen and Nils Vink 6-3, 2-6, 10-7 in the final. And we also had the women's wheelchair doubles final, Yui Kimiji and Zhu Zhenzhen, the top seeds, beating the unseeded Chinese-Japanese pairing of Zhuo-Luo-Yao and Momoko Otani, 6-1, 6-2. So a convincing win for Yui Kimiji and Zhu Zhenzhen. And Kimiji will play Dida De Gutt in the singles final tomorrow.

46:53David Law:Can't wait. You will be watching that.

46:56Matt Roberts:That match will be first up on court 13 at 11 a.m. tomorrow. The junior boys final is first up on court 12. That is between an unseeded American, Marcel Latak, and the French Open junior boys champion, Guto Miguel, who I saw a bit of at Wimbledon. He was a hitting partner on the practice courts at Wimbledon, and I very much enjoyed watching him. He was ill, you say.

47:32Catherine Whitaker:No, he's from Brazil.

47:34Matt Roberts:Oh. Good.

47:38Catherine Whitaker:Catherine and I are sat quite far away from each other.

47:44David Law:I'm between.

47:47Matt Roberts:The girls' singles final is between the Russian Anna Pushkareva, who's a name I feel like I've heard quite a lot of, and Sun Jinran. So that is the top seed against the fifth seed in the junior girls final tomorrow. That is first up at 11am on court seven. The quad singles final first up on court 10. The top two seeds, Niels Vink against Sam Schroeder. The men's wheelchair singles final to Kito Oda going for that calendar slam against Alfie Hewitt. That is first up on court 11 at 11am. And then on the Arthur Ashe Stadium tomorrow, it starts off with the men's doubles final, the German pairing of Kevin Kravitz and Tim Puetz up against the American Brit pairing of Christian Harrison and Neil Skubsky.

48:40Matt Roberts:That's at midday. And then not before 4pm, the women's singles final, the top seed against the second seed, the current world number one against the world number one elect. Irina Sabalenka against Elena Rabakina. David, what's going to happen? Who's going to win?

49:01David Law:Oh, I have gone back and forth a bit on this one when I've been thinking about it because I think it's so easy to make a compelling case for each player. They have a very sort of even head-to-head. They've both won big matches against one another this year. The Australian Open for Rabakina and then the Sunshine double successes for Sabalenka. I was so convinced by Sabalenka's form from yesterday that that is what turns my head the most. There's no guarantee that she's able to provide that again. Her coaching team actually came into a press conference today and they're quite amusing talking about Sabalenka.

49:44David Law:They really do slightly laugh at her expense and say, you know, this is what she's like on and off the court. you've got to kind of go with it and just kind of keep her able to laugh and not take it all too seriously but she's just found it she's found it in the nick of time because she's she'd lost her form she'd lost her composure something had gone from her game for a number of months and that performance yesterday I think Jim Currier said it was the best performance of of the year for her You know, not just the sunshine double, you know, this was as good as she's played. So with her record here, having won the title here the last two years, I think she will find the answers.

50:35Catherine Whitaker:I'm leaning Sabalenka as well. you know it's so interesting to me to think about the possible opponents that Sabalenka could have had in this final and you know it was very nearly Coco Gauff and I think when Sabalenka plays Coco Gauff she knows she's in for a stressful time like that match she feels is on her racket but it often leads to a lot of unforced errors of ragged display however when she plays for Bakkina it's interesting to me because I think some for once some of the control is actually taken away from Sabalenka and I actually think that's quite helpful for her to stay calm and play well and I think about their Australian Open finals to my mind they've been incredibly high quality and she's won one and she's lost one but I do think she probably should have won the one this year you know Rabatkaner had that amazing returning game in the opening set, won that set, but then Sabalenka was kind of the better player for the rest of the set, she was the better player in the second set, she was the better player at the start of the third, and she put herself in a winning position, and I just think if she's in a winning position this time, Sabalenka, with the form she's shown in the last two matches, and how desperate she is to win this one, obviously it could go the other way, but I'm banking on it going the right way for her and for her to just not let this one go.

52:10Catherine Whitaker:And, yeah, I'm going to go Sabalenka probably in three sets, just getting over the line.

52:18Matt Roberts:Well, you two have put me in a very awkward position because after our absolute catastrophe of predictions ahead of the women's semifinals, where we all did a clean sweep of wrong predictions, You want to save some credibility for us Yeah well we can't put it all on black

52:38Catherine Whitaker:That's fair But I do think Sabalenka

52:43David Law:It's your fault then I just

52:46Matt Roberts:I mean mostly all the back and forth I do in my head and there's a lot there's a very strong case for Rabakina there's a very strong case for you know final Sabalenka Scrambleenka showing up the most compelling thing that keeps coming back is the performance I saw last night which was just some of the best tennis I've seen all year so I'm going to go with that but here we are again folks

53:15Catherine Whitaker:yeah and look I suppose if I'm trying to come up with a counter to that and a case for Rabatkinna can Sambollenka do all those things that she was able to do against Pagoula against Rabatkin. You know, Pagoula said something in the press conference which was like, she finds it hard against Sabalenka here at the US Open. That's three losses now, even though a couple of them have been very close matches. Because she said, once she locks onto my ball, she's comfortable. And I think that Rabatkin just has a slightly greater way to shop than Pagoula. She's a bit more dangerous off both wings. She's looking to hurt you more than Pagoula probably is.

53:56Catherine Whitaker:that maybe that can unsettle Sabalenka. I'd be surprised if Sabalenka's able to handle Rabatkinner kind of as comfortably as she did Pagula down the stretch there.

54:09Matt Roberts:OK, you've covered us.

54:10Catherine Whitaker:OK. I'll say no more.

54:13Matt Roberts:That was a good insurance policy against utter humiliation.

54:17David Law:All they will remember is the three people who said Sabalenka.

54:21Matt Roberts:We'll see you back here tomorrow night, folks, for the reckoning after the women's singles final. We'll be back. Still two more of these daily US Open podcasts. Then we have a review show coming next week for Friends of the Pod. There is still so much to come from this US Open. We say hello to our mascots, Bodhi, Maisie and Roger. We say hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. And a particular hello tonight to Chris with whom Matt and I spent a lovely few hours this afternoon.

54:55Catherine Whitaker:We did, talking all things tennis. And, yeah, Chris looked after us very well. And we had a lovely, lovely day with him. What a nice man.

55:04Matt Roberts:We did. What an absolutely joyful, lovely man Chris is. So, yeah, thank you, top folk, Chris. And we leave you today with a message from our US Open mascot, Leo, who is pictured here in a New York City fire department dog coat. And Cara, Leo's owner, says the following. Today, Leo is holding his tennis balls in quiet reflection to honour the memory of those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001. The heroic men and women who rushed to help and the loyal rescue dogs who worked alongside them in the days that followed. 25 years later, Leo chooses to remember this day not only as one of profound loss, but of countless acts of courage, compassion, sacrifice and love.

55:51Matt Roberts:Today, in particular, Leo is especially grateful for the simple gifts of freedom, community, sports and play and for the opportunity to gather in peace with friends from across the world to enjoy a sport that we all love. Well said, Cara. Well said, Leo. Thank you for listening. We'll speak to you tomorrow. Thank you.