US Open Mixed Doubles - will the champions be invited back?

13:47Catherine Whitaker:I suppose you know my feeling is that they're very keen to call themselves an official Grand Slam tournament. If they go the other way and they just make it all singles players, to me they're going away from that. If they go in terms of involving some other mixed doubles champions and doubles specialist teams, I think you could actually make the case that that would be the strongest mixed doubles field out of all the Grand Slams. If you've got enough good mixed doubles teams plus your single stars who are your best players, that would actually be like the most impressive Grand Slam to win, I think.

14:30Because exactly as you said, a lot of the other mixed doubles draws are a bit of a random mishmash of players. You know, mixed doubles draws are not that strong. They're not that impressive. I totally get...

14:42David Law:Most of them don't have a million dollars on the line. Right, I totally get why the US Open wanted to revamp it. I totally get it. But I just think... if they go all in on the singles players who don't really give a shit, who don't need the money, I think they would devalue actually a pretty incredible event that they might have hit on here.

15:06Matt Roberts:Yeah, I don't just... There is lots good about trying to do this. Recognising how much fertile, unplowed territory there is in mixed in the format of this sport where men and women play together is important and how it has been so unplowed under plowed for so long is is a mystery to me really but you know trying to do something about that and maximize it and put it to the

15:43David Law:forefront is a is a really good thing and that crowd i mean it was packed by the time they got got halfway into the evening they got to about 8 30 9 o 'clock there was barely a seat that you

15:56Matt Roberts:could see in 24 000 it was less full for the ceremony yeah i mean the ceremony was was something

16:03David Law:they need to attend to because they tried to build it well they did they built a stage after midnight when everybody was leaving. And it was almost empty by the time they'd finished. So the ceremony was a shame. But the crowd absolutely loved it. Some of the exchanges, we saw some incredible rallies tonight. Half a dozen really spectacular points where you could see and hear and feel the crowd hanging on every stroke that's being played and every get that's been made and every incredible volley and rundown. And it was wonderful to hear that, to hear that engagement and buy-in by this crowd. My sense was that this was a crowd that was getting to come to the US Open and watch tennis rather than absolute hardcore tennis fans.

16:55David Law:I think you get a lot of that at the US Open anyway. It's not just people who love tennis all year round. they were reacting to these spectacular rallies and they weren't being cynical about any of it which was great the US Open and the USTA really judged that well I think they understood how to make this thing work but these tweaks I hope they go in the one direction I suspect like you say they will go in the other and and they need and as you said they need the single stars the crowd were there because of the names the single stars and that and the crowd elevated the event and brought a buzz to it it was it was great it was really great but i fear that they're going to go the other direction and the novelty will wear off and then it will just feel like I think it will feel more like an exhibition it'll be a competitive fun exhibition yeah yeah and I think that would still bring good crowds they'll still get that element but it won't have what we had tonight it was notable

18:11Matt Roberts:tonight and look I had a good time throughout the evening other than the lull midway through the first set of the final when I was just annoyed that it wasn't fast four.

18:23David Law:That was the funniest moment. And I feel like we should say, like, why we think it was weird for it not to be fast four. I think it was because, you know, at that point we were starting to get quite late in the evening. The crowd, okay, they've only seen two matches, but, like, they've now got to invest themselves in a third match. I just felt like it was primed and ready. It was for it to happen all quickly. and there was a big gap, much bigger gap than there had been between other matches. There was more faff tonight than there had been yesterday. It just felt like the whole thing of the event was getting on with it and quick, fast, sharp, and just felt like we slightly lost that.

19:04It did turn into a really good final and the comeback in the second set was why generally I like longer sets, because you had time for it to turn and the momentum was swinging and all that kind of thing. I wasn't in the mindset for that type of tennis because we'd had fast four the whole way through. It did feel a bit weird shifting.

19:30Matt Roberts:I wasn't watching any of the other matches thinking, I wish this was normal format. No, exactly. Incredibly. It had worked.

19:39David Law:But I did think that I would get to the final. And you may remember yesterday, we'd heard on ESPN yesterday both the semis and the finals were going to be to six games. That was clearly wrong. I got that wrong. I think a lot of players walked out onto the court not knowing the format, David. I don't think you're alone. But it was interesting. I was convinced that that was a plus point, that it was going to be longer today. Yeah, me too. And actually, being in the stadium, I don't know how it felt watching on TV, being in the stadium, I really wanted all the fast four elements of it. It just worked.

20:17It just felt like there was a little moment in the final where the crowd had run out of energy a little bit. They got it back at the end when it got spectacular. That was very much my trajectory.

20:26Matt Roberts:I ran out of energy. I got it back big time. Expended it all on Saru Arani's underarm serve. Can't believe it's taken us so long to mention the underarm serve.

20:34David Law:Can we go through this? Sure. It was just incredible. So this tiebreak's happening. and Vavasori and Arani, I mean, they've led by a set. They were 5-3 up. They served for it.

20:49Catherine Whitaker:Vavasori served for it.

20:51David Law:Vavasori served for it and he did choke. And look, Shvantec and Rude played some unreal stuff to get it back. They were giving all their singles powers in order to come up with the goods. And then you kind of knew that as soon as they got that back that Irani wasn't going to hold on. Whereas the previous Irani service game, she'd been love 30 down and Schiontek and Ruud had missed three returns in a row and then Ruud had shanked a four-man. That was astonishing. It was unbelievable. They hit four clangers in that game. And you're like, I can't believe they're this good and they're hitting shots that bad.

21:37David Law:And then it goes into this tie break and right at the start of the tiebreaker, I mean, Vavasori at the start of it looked like he'd seen a ghost. He looked so edgy and nervous because, I mean, the guy has got half a million each for them on the line here. He and Nirani have already said that they're playing for doubles players everywhere in this tournament and they've dominated the whole tournament. Suddenly, they've blown it and they're in a 10-point tiebreak, one set all against the world number two in the women's game and a former champion. And Kasper Rude has reached the final in the singles.

22:15David Law:And all the momentum's with them. And suddenly they won one point and Vavasori was back. He was. And he was leaping around the room. Doing his jumping jacks, his sprints. It was Arcta Rindeknesh stuff. And they went three love up in the tie break. They then went eight four up, I think. And there was this wonderful moment where suddenly the realization is, oh my word, Irani's got two points on her serve to win the title. And bear in mind, the fastest serve I saw her put in all tournament was 77 miles per hour. And she'd hit several in the low 60s. She got to match point. she hit a and in our little media seats a conversation started up between Matt and Catherine, I want to see an underarm serve.

23:13Matt Roberts:I wondered if she would because she does. She's done it before, she's got form. She hit one en route to winning the gold last year and she hit one I think against Igor Sviontek in the Billie Jean King Cup. In key moments she has underarm served in the past. but she hit a normal first serve and it was like oh and then she missed and we're like oh

23:40David Law:what's she gonna do now i mean that's that serve is about 64 miles an hour and it missed second serve she motions as if to hit a serve a normal serve and then she went under under it with the underarm a serve and before the crowd realized what had happened katherine just went made a noise that I can't reproduce. It was very loud and it was very high pitched and it was completely involuntary. And everybody around us just sort of jumped out of the seats. And then the rest of the crowd cottoned on, oh my word, she's hitting under half serve. And then we're into a rally and they're going all over the court.

24:18David Law:And then a forehand sat up for Rorani to finish it. And then it was volleyed back at her and then she couldn't get the ball over the net. And so the chance had gone. And they had a second match point. It should have been the winning point, shouldn't it? It would have been even more perfect than it was. But they won it on their second championship point. And it was fantastic. The problem was that because I was primed

24:45Matt Roberts:and anticipating a potential underarm serve, I reacted a split second more quickly than the rest of the crowd. It was incredible. I would also react to, you know, there was a cacophony of response and noise a split second after my high-pitched screech, which I think will have been audible both on the court and on the broadcast.

25:07David Law:Because you made it when it was in complete silence. Still. I was so excited. That was one of the most exhilarating moments of my life. You knew about the underarm serve second in the entire room after Asara Arani. It was incredible. She is incredible.

25:30Catherine Whitaker:And I went back to have a look at the statement that Arani and Vavasori put out. Do you remember this? Back in February when the concept was announced, they criticised the format as a pseudo-exhibition focused only on entertainment and show, a decision made without consulting anyone, which we can do nothing but accept. We see it as a profound injustice that disrespects an entire category of players. Putting money above tennis is never a good idea.

26:04David Law:And now they're millionaires.

26:06Catherine Whitaker:They split 200 ,000 last year when they won the title and they split a million this year. I mean, it is just perfect. It's incredible. It is absolutely perfect. but it is the perfect conclusion to this mixed doubles thing.

26:27Matt Roberts:You think they'll be invited back next year, Matt?

26:29David Law:Oh, they have to be.

26:30Catherine Whitaker:I'm not convinced.

26:31David Law:Oh, I think they will.

26:32Matt Roberts:They can't risk this happening again.

26:34David Law:Oh, this was not a disaster for the US Open.

26:38Matt Roberts:I don't think so, but I...

26:39David Law:I think they'll be pleased with it.

26:41Matt Roberts:I don't think the USTA are happy with this outcome.

26:44David Law:Oh, I don't agree. I hope I'm wrong. I don't think they're happy with it. I think they've got drama out of it. Yeah, and they kind of lean into the sort of drama that they've created. I think they've had their cake and they eat it too. They do, yeah. They've had all the names. They've had a full house. Everybody's loved it, really. Most people have anyway. I'm sure there are some of our listeners who just didn't like this whole thing at all and didn't want to know. I understand that. I respect that as people who are more into tennis than I think the people in that stadium and were on the whole.

27:24David Law:So they achieved their goals. They got ESPN TV. They got this massive show. It was all over in two days. All the players were happy with it. They don't feel like they've been overextended. They've had compliments. And now they've had two players who've made a big noise and have made it extra competitive, made it dramatic, and gone and won it. And that shows the legitimacy of it, really, if you like. If they wanted to prove that it's a real mixed doubles tournament, well, they've just kind of proved that that can be a thing. My concern is that they will invite them back because of all that, but that they won't have anybody else.

28:12David Law:And if they then don't win it next year, then they won't be back. I mean Sarah Rani is 37 yeah I mean you have to wonder how much longer she's going to be able to play continually at this level

28:28Matt Roberts:it looks like a pretty evergreen game

28:30Catherine Whitaker:it does I mean she can under half serve when she's 67 probably I

28:38Matt Roberts:really hope you're right I just worry that the USTA view all this really differently to how we do. I think so. I think so. I think we, like, we are, you know, we're ironists, aren't we? Like, we've had a lovely, silly time tonight. USCA didn't want anyone having a silly time. Like, we've not, we've loved it, but we haven't loved it in the way that they have intended people to love. That, you know, they're ironically saying the word reimagined all the time over the you know the mc is delivering

29:21David Law:the word reimagined so much and the casparude going for his first grand slam title at his fourth

29:31Matt Roberts:attempt i'm sorry i wonder whether that was being said tongue in cheek but i don't think it was

29:40David Law:It did tickle me. Listen, I hope they get it, because they've actually, by mostly design and some fortune, stumbled upon a fantastic situation here, and they could make it even better. It's massively elevated fan week, which I think was their goal. And I would like to see some tweaks. I think the way it sits in the tennis calendar was a big problem. It starting a day after Cincinnati finishing was a joke. I mean, credit to Igor Sviontek, I have to say, for playing as she did. I mean, that's partly Cincinnati's fault. It is Cincinnati's fault. Finishing on a Monday. It's Cincinnati's fault. But I would like to see that just figured out for next year.

30:35So that we're not in this situation again. because that was a problem. I think some of the entry, you know, people backing out and repairing and whether you can repair or not, I think that was all a bit, it was all a bit messy, you know, like the process of the various different entry points and all that kind of thing. I found that a little bit messy through the year. I think that could be, that could be tidied up.

31:02David Law:I think the big fear they would have if they did any more doubles teams is that they might end up with a semi-final lineup of Vavasori and Irani. And they definitely don't want that.

31:12Matt Roberts:Collins and Harrison against Vavasori and Irani was already pushing it a bit, I think, for the vibes. Yeah, I think there's absolutely no way they go towards what we want. Yeah.

31:24Catherine Whitaker:I think they might. Yeah, I think this is a moot discussion. I think they might let Irani and Vavasori in. Once. Yeah. Until they lose. I really worry that they won't. Yeah. I really worry that they won't. I also think there would be a lot of interest for me to have a Sinna-Sinniakova type pairing, a top singles player and a top doubles player. Okay, maybe not a top doubles team, but I think there'd be scope for a lot of those sorts of pairings. Townsend and Shelton didn't do well, did they? No, they didn't. I mean, the fact that they lost to Collins and Harrison, because Collins is not fit. No.

32:03It would not surprise me if she pulls out of the singles.

32:06David Law:Oh, I don't think she'll pull out. I don't think she'll get very far. She's desperate to cash the cheque, as she says. Take the first round. She's unapologetic about that. She wants the money. And, you know, fair enough. She's earned the money by ranking. I don't think she's pulling out.

32:26Matt Roberts:Okay, well, just to round out our discussion of the reimagined US Open Mixed Doubles Championship, an official Grand Slam tournament, I'm going to pick up where I left off yesterday with just some quick fire questions about it all. Maybe not quick fire, sort of one sentence, one word, but, you know, pithy stuff. You know, not finishing after midnight type stuff. Snappy format. I mean, it is 1.52 in the morning, but spiritually not finishing after midnight. Get on with it. Okay. Right. what worked let's list the things that worked about fast four yeah god life comes at you fast doesn't it we're fast four people

33:18Catherine Whitaker:yeah most of it worked most of it worked I loved yesterday

33:25Matt Roberts:the headlines if you're doing a feedback form

33:27Catherine Whitaker:headlines what worked yesterday the the nature of like it taking up the whole day matches everywhere two courts split screen on ESPN

33:42David Law:proper commentators on the courts passing it over to each other the buzz of it like seeing all the different like we were suddenly presented with 16 fun pairings I thought that was great that really worked for me okay

33:58Matt Roberts:what didn't work the stage and this is not unique to mixed doubles but erecting a stage the indulgence of it

34:10David Law:just totally unnecessary

34:12Matt Roberts:but just so highlighted by doing it after midnight when everyone was leaving everybody just took one look at that

34:19David Law:and said oh I'm not waiting for that

34:21Matt Roberts:the bloke sitting to our right who had lost his mind when Irani and Vavasori won a crazy point in the tie break. Not even to go match point up, not even when they won.

34:37Catherine Whitaker:It was to go 7-4 up.

34:39Matt Roberts:Right, to go 7-4. I mean, he, everybody in our section of the crowd was staring at him and for the next point, I was actually watching him and not watching the tennis because he, like, I mean, he could have done anything. He could have streaked on the court. And that next point was

34:56Catherine Whitaker:Igor Svantec double-faulting. Right.

34:58Matt Roberts:Oh, he double-fist-pumped that, yeah. he did not stay for the ceremony no he was more hype than Arani and Vavasori Jasmine Parolini was thinking of not staying

35:08David Law:I think what else didn't work kind of as I said earlier I thought like the whole situation around Sinna not being able to play Sinniarka for being in but then her not playing and then it being Harrison and Collins I thought that was I don't think that worked

35:27Matt Roberts:the entry requirements like everything to do with entry requirements eight eight the the fudging of it all the subjectivity of it all eight wild cards yeah that was too many um i think there's room for a couple um you're okay with one eighth of a competition being wild cards you don't you think that's

35:51David Law:compatible with integrity there's a lot of wild cards yeah and and i know you don't like them but they're everywhere they've always been there it ain't gonna change but but the more you have of

36:04Matt Roberts:them that when you've got the more you have of them the more they compromise integrity i do think it

36:11David Law:the dilution of them matters yeah i mean i've i'm okay with one or two um i by the way i i thought being in the stadium tonight and i wouldn't have noticed this on tv the djs really work the way the way they fill the gaps and they are part of the entertainment and part of the staging of the countdown. Okay, the countdown into a VT didn't work as well for me. I would rather have that into suddenly the players appearing in the tunnel. But I really enjoyed the DJs being high profile. I enjoyed the DJs too,

36:46Matt Roberts:but they are covering up for FAF. There was some unnecessary FAF tonight that there wasn't yesterday.

36:51David Law:But it just felt, it kept energy levels high in there to me.

36:54Matt Roberts:Yeah, it did.

36:55David Law:I was constantly dancing

36:57Matt Roberts:things could have been we're in the what didn't work section David you had your chance to bring up the DJs in what works

37:02David Law:I'd forgotten that bit so I thought I'd just make sure it was there

37:06Matt Roberts:yeah a bit too much faff tonight yes and at least there was a DJ and overall

37:11David Law:over the course of the two days I thought it was really pleasingly faff free yeah the speed even down to Sam Querrey in the interview saying right you are going to be on here again in four minutes time you know right at the end of the interview which I just thought marked everybody's card we're getting on with this okay and so yeah I think they did that well

37:33Matt Roberts:another thing that didn't work quite literally was the video review yeah that was a false I mean this is not I feel like that could have happened in any match mixed doubles or whatever like tennis has not sorted itself out with this video

37:49David Law:Jessica Pergoula seemed to think there'd been a double bounce so she'd patted a winner away but she'd hit it whilst over the other side of the net basically because she thought the point was already so she got

38:00Catherine Whitaker:so Gruden Gruden's Fiontek turned it on her and challenged challenged her shot

38:06David Law:and basically the stadium had no idea what was going on who was challenging what why they were all standing around I don't think they even knew there was a challenge system for that kind of thing and the umpire tried to say a couple of bless him you know but the screens weren't working none of the replay systems worked it was a bad seven minutes. Yeah. Anyway. And actually, you mentioned Sam Querrey and the interviews, the sound system in Ash. I mean, again, not specific to the mixed doubles, but it doesn't work. I mean, players can't hear questions that are being asked.

38:41Matt Roberts:There was a fantastically awkward interview yesterday with Pagula, Draper and Sloane Stevens. And on TV, you think, well, what's the problem?

38:50David Law:We can hear you clear as day because they've got broadcast quality mics going straight to the TV. And yet the players who stood right next to each other can't hear each other. And all of us in the stands, it's just... You have to really tune in to try and hear what's being said. I can't tell what anybody's saying. Yeah. So that doesn't work. But again, that's not specific to the mixed doubles. No.

39:14Matt Roberts:Anything else?

39:18Matt Roberts:Next question. Do you want to do this again next year?

39:20Catherine Whitaker:Oh, yeah. absolutely it's great and would we I think I want all the slams to do it

39:25Matt Roberts:would we come out a day earlier again to cover it in the way we have this year

39:29David Law:I don't think so I mean I don't regard it as a news story next year no I mean I enjoyed it and I want to watch it again and if they did have the doubles teams that we're talking about against the singles players I would want to see competitively who wins I'd be interested in that but as entertainment and competition but you know personally I'm here early because it's new okay last last section proposals and

40:01Matt Roberts:amendments if you again it's a it's a feedback form to the USTA what are your three key proposals or amendments that you would put forward for the format well I mean it really is those doubles

40:16David Law:teams the champions from the other mixed doubles tournaments um don't lose that because that's that was the best bit of this um stage stage definitely and um yeah it's just a few tweaks i think they did a brilliant job i really do

40:41Catherine Whitaker:matt not much to add really i think i think we're on the same pretty much the same page

40:50yeah I think I would like to see you know I think one of the things that for example the United Cup does really well is seeing a lot seeing a lot of the interactions within within the team and I kind of think that maybe there was more to like maybe they could have got some more content out of the fact that we had these pairings So yes, we saw them interacting on court, but maybe they could have given us some more practice sessions or...

41:24Matt Roberts:Like the Runa Anisimova content that we so enjoyed. Which was great. And they did a little bit of that for some teams, but it wasn't like consistent. Where they failed to high five. And they streamed the Raducanu Alka as practice.

41:38Catherine Whitaker:Yeah. But you know, I just felt like, just get even more out of those little... Because it's built for that. It's built for it. We would eat that up. Yeah, we would. We did eat up the Runa leaving Anisim overhanging for a high five and her having to style it out. Watched it three times on a loop. Even more of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Okay. It's been fun. Really fun. I really did have a fun night. There was a lull and there was quite a long queue at Eataly for dinner

42:16Matt Roberts:because we discovered the media restaurant closed at eight o 'clock. Seven o 'clock?

42:20Catherine Whitaker:Seven o 'clock. Seven o 'clock.

42:21Matt Roberts:At the time that matches, well, they didn't even start at seven because it was faff. But yeah, media restaurant closed at seven. A lot of things closed.

42:30David Law:Yeah. That's probably a little bit of feedback. Very good. Keep stuff open, folks. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. But fun has been had. Fun has been had. We hope you've enjoyed it as well. It's been a good kind of loosener, hasn't it, to get us into the US Open.

42:54Matt Roberts:Oh, absolutely. I feel so ready. And yet also so worried that nothing can possibly compare to that Sari Arani under-arm serve moment. It's the one-point slam all over again. I've peaked too soon. What are we going to do? what we're going to do is come back and do daily podcasts from friday onwards folks uh that makes it 14 15 16 17 daily podcasts from friday onwards we have two previews and then it all kicks off on sunday with 15 daily podcasts from the final grand slam at the 2025 tennis season we have our live show tomorrow or today later on today how much sleep will we all have had who can say there's a

43:40Catherine Whitaker:there's gonna be a pdf dropping in my inbox in 10 hours um yeah but we're we're pumped for the live show and to everybody that's coming we uh we can't wait to see you we really can't it's going to be great folks we have our mascots of course hello to phoebe maizey and roger hello to our top folks and executive producers, Greg, Chris and Jeff. Are we going to have shout outs, Matt? Have you got it in you? Yeah, it's been a fun show. Yeah. Off you go then. We have Lee Ferguson. Hello, Lee. Right, Lee. Who is from Kent.

44:21David Law:Oh. Very good. Like Lee Childs, the former British tennis player who's now involved at Queens or Wimbledon,

44:31Matt Roberts:Is it Lee Child, an author? The Jack Reacher novels?

44:35David Law:I don't know.

44:38Matt Roberts:Is it the same person? No.

44:41David Law:Definitely a tennis player, Catherine.

44:43Matt Roberts:Big server back in the day. I'm telling you. Lee Child. Yes. Well, Lee Child is a pen name, I think, for the author.

44:50Catherine Whitaker:Okay.

44:52Matt Roberts:Can we just confirm they're not the same person? Yeah, so Lee Child, singular, is the writer.

44:59Catherine Whitaker:Right. Lee Childs Plural Yes See Or not plural That would be Lee Children Anyway Child with an S Is the retired British tennis player Yes

45:13David Law:Thank you Matt

45:15Catherine Whitaker:Well thank you Google

45:17David Law:No thank you me

45:18Catherine Whitaker:Thank you David I beat Google to it Always thank you David Following match victories in 2000 Childs was hailed as the future of British tennis Correct Wow

45:29David Law:Massive serve

45:30Catherine Whitaker:And how did that future look? He famously defeated Nikolai Davidenko at Wimbledon in 2003 Wikipedia says Yep Correct He then lost in the next round to 17-year-old Rafael Nadal Wow In straight sets I remember that I'm feeling Charlie Ecclesham I've been at that match Of course he was Lee, thank you for taking us down this long and winding road

45:54David Law:Yes What a treat

45:56Catherine Whitaker:And for the purposes of this episode, he reached the third round of Wimbledon Mixed Doubles in 2002. Who with? Stand by.

46:11Catherine Whitaker:Elena Val Tatcher.

46:16Lee, a truly long and winding road that I have enjoyed. Thank you for that. And thank you for being a friend of the tennis podcast.

46:25Catherine Whitaker:That was only our first shout out. We've got two more. We've got Tony Corbett. Hi, Tony. Who is from Newcastle, Australia.

46:34David Law:Yes, and Tony works in tennis. I know this because Tony's been in touch with us on email in the past. And yeah, works in tennis. So hi, Tony.

46:45Matt Roberts:What does he do in tennis?

46:46David Law:She.

46:53it's a man actually no it's not no that's a famous clip oh is it you know

47:01David Law:oh yes

47:09it's my favourite of a clip

47:12David Law:this thing can't get any better got it Tony I'm sorry and that probably happens to you all the time and I really am sorry to be part of the problem continue telling us about what Tony does in tennis I can't quite remember Tony says

47:31Catherine Whitaker:been going to the Australian Open since well before it was popular a standout year was when we bought tickets to the Australian Open ball I remember dancing on the dance floor beside Martina Hingis wow

47:44David Law:whoa of course

47:45Catherine Whitaker:I know you could buy tickets to the Australian Open Bull no gosh since I always have a bit of a memory of that coming up in the show's house before is it just first come first serve sorry

47:56David Law:I don't know how you would possibly be able to answer that no stand by from that this time Tony again thank you for taking us down this long and winding road absolutely and thank you for being a friend of the tennis podcast

48:15Catherine Whitaker:and finally last but by no means least we have Dawn Sawyer oh Dawn I think Dawn's coming tomorrow night she is or tonight yes yes Dawn a long time friend of the pod yes our strength and our stay really a core supporter mockers mum Mocker's mum, yeah. We're very grateful and it'll be lovely to see Dawn tomorrow night. Any tennis Dawns? It's going to be Dawn here soon. Very good. We've got Sawyer, like former Australian tennis player Mary Sawyer. Oh. A two-time winner of the Irish Open who defeated Maria Bueno in the 1977 final. Wow. That's good. I think Vicky might have come up with that for us.

49:12Very good. Thank you, Vicky. Thank you, Dawn. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Lee.

49:19Catherine Whitaker:Maybe Dawn came up with that herself. I'm not sure who to give credit to. I'm going to give credit to them both because they're both excellent. They're both excellent. They both definitely could have come up with that.

49:28Matt Roberts:Exactly.

49:29Catherine Whitaker:Whereas we couldn't. Not at 2.08am. Dawn, Tony, Lee, thank you ever so much for being friends of the tennis podcast. If you'd like to become a friend, the link as always is in our show notes. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network. We will see some of you tomorrow for our live show. We will speak to all of you on Friday and for the next 17 days thereafter. Welcome to the US Open 2025. We will speak to you soon.