What’s happened since Wimbledon ‘26?

33:52Was she number two in the world at one stage? You know, I don't see that happening again. I'd be surprised if she won a Grand Slam title, for instance, or reached a final. But she's also got a game that a lot of people don't like playing against. You know, on a given day, she can beat big names. And again, she's had so much misery due to this chronic back problem that if she gets happiness from periods of the calendar like this, that's enough for me. I don't want to see these players always sad. on the final day of a tournament. And I realise that they accept that losing is part of the sport and you do more losing than you do winning, even if you're the very best.

34:36Well, maybe there's one or two. Sino doesn't lose very often, does he? But, you know, even he had that misery in Paris. But Bados has gone through a lot. And so, you know, I know she hasn't won this title yet and it'll be interesting to see what does happen in this final. But again, good result though. and I should say I do think she should have been disqualified this week did you did you see this incident yeah where she where she chucked her racket after I was after missing a smash and she sort of turned around and threw the racket and it landed well I mean in the crowd basically in a sort of hedge just in front of the seats.

35:20Yeah. She threw it hard. And, yeah, I really do think that, okay, it didn't end up hitting anyone, but that was a clear example of how it was reckless and put people in harm's way. And I do think that's a prime example of what I think the sport should be cracking down on to try and stop the events where people do get harmed from reckless throwing of rackets or hitting the balls. It would be so easy to stop it from happening. I mean, it would still happen, like, once every few years and it would be a massive deal, you know, somebody just totally losing their head. But it's happening with the frequency that it's happening because there are no consequences for it.

36:05Like, it's, yeah, it would be so easy to stop this and it feels like they're waiting for something really bad to happen before they properly crack down on it. Yeah, it's a mystery to me, to be honest. In Athens this week, the WTA 250 event there has been won by Barbora Krejcikova, beating home player Maria Sakharie in the final. A big week for the Greeks with Sakharie reaching a final and sit to pass winning a title, but a bigger week for Barbora Krejcikova, David, who has erupted again. She sure has. I watched her beat Clara Towson in the semifinals. Of course you did. It was good, this. It was because it didn't look like it was going to be much of a match.

37:02You know, Towson has not been having the best of times and Krejcikova was just comfortably winning this. She was setting a break up. She was serving for the match. Then she loses a serve and then it becomes a bit of an ordeal and she wins it in three. But all the way through it and including the final, which was a pretty tense final from Khrushchev, because she had a lot to deal with. You know, Sakharie had a packed house there for her. Everything she did was just cheered to the rafters. It was great, you know, great atmosphere. Again, I'm pleased to see Sakharie in a final having a good time, winning five matches.

37:40and, you know, getting to the final and having to win all those matches to get there and having a home crowd. But Krishikov's having to sort of deal with people applauding her missing her first serve, you know, when she's closing in on the first set and things like that. And then quite a delay while the crowd calmed down. And she handled it all. She won the match. But what I loved about Krishikov all the way through the matches that I was seeing is just this look of excitement in her face, this hunger, this freshness. You know, she's looked jaded by the injuries over the years to me in recent times.

38:18She's not looked... Again, this seems to be a theme of the show. She's not looked happy for a long time when all the injuries were going on, as though, God, this is such a struggle, this tennis circuit. And suddenly that looks like it's lifted. Even when she lost to Mukava at Wimbledon, her reaction was one of, well that was a great match to be part of i you know enjoyed it playing mug of her playing like that and me trying to take her on you know the whole thing has changed and i mean go and listen to the interview katherine and matt did with her on tennis podcast meets and you'll just hear somebody who's so different to the the the average tennis player and average person on the circuit and she's fascinating and and i think she's kind of at peace a little bit because she's already done loads in the sport, but she's finally getting a run of health and can have a go at it.

39:09And I sort of looked at her in this draw, this 250 week after women, and I'm thinking, crikey, I wonder if she has any trouble getting up for this, you know, given that she's been so far above it in her career, but not a bit of it. She was loving that crowd and loving the environment. An interview, incidentally, where Matt told Barbora Krojikova about the concept of dormant volcanoes and explained to her that she is one. I love the idea, Matt, that she might be going around saying, I've erupted. Check me out. There was this weird guy at Wimbledon who called me a dormant volcano and maybe he was onto something.

39:52Yeah, look, I agree with David. I think having Craig Cheek of a, again, at least back to this level where she's fit. And, you know, she pushed Mukova at Wimbledon, who went on to reach the final. Like, I think Krejcikova's level was really high through that tournament. And now she's won a WTA title again. And just having her as a character on the tour is so fascinating because she is different, because she is a character. She's not going to take it personally if the crowd's against her, but she's going to enjoy it and be up for it and maybe even be better for it. And she's a kind of quite low-key character who enjoys big stages, not in a way that you necessarily think of Carlos Alcaraz enjoying a big stage and owning it, but just that quiet confidence that she has in herself and her own game and knowing how good she can be.

40:54She said in that interview to us, I believe I can beat anyone still. these stages bring out the best in her and the more times we get to see her in these sorts of matches the better really and yeah she in the final she was down in both sets wasn't she it was a very sackery experience 4-1 up in the first set lost it break up in the second and lost it but Craig Chicova closed the match well and I enjoyed this tournament it was the first time that the WTA had been in Athens since 1990 and there was significance for Zachary because her mother had reached the final in Athens when the event was played in 1986 there.

41:36So 40 years since her mother had been in the final, Zachary got there and she really understood the significance of that and took a lot of meaning from it. And it's also the venue that hosted the Athens Olympic tennis back in 2004, which is always just nice to think about those venues still being used for good in the sport. So, yeah, I think it was a really successful week with a great runner-up story and a great champion story as well. Just on that runners-up story and the gestard Sitsapas story, you don't have many totally bum predictions on your books, Matt. There aren't many Christina Pliskovis and foregone conclusions lurking in your closet.

42:27But your big Greek prediction is a standout. Yeah, what did I say? That they both win a slam in... I can't remember whether I said it at the end of 2021 going into 2022 or the end of 2022 going into 2023. I think it was the end of 2022 going into 2023. Either way, hasn't planned out. Can't even do the Gestalt Athens double Does this week No, let's not go there No, okay No, no, no Look, it was just an opportunity for me to bring it up again No, that's fine I'm always bringing up David's skeletons That's true If you made this at the end of 2022 didn't Sitsapas reach the final of the Australian Open in 2023?

43:21Yeah, Matt was feeling good. I think it might have been the end of 2021, though, because that was when Zachary had reached a couple of Grand Sound semifinals that year. Sitsapas had been in the French Open final. Thank you, David, for trying to rescue it, but it was... I can't. It's bad. I do think it shows, though, well, just how far they've fallen. that kind of, you know, they were knocking on the door of these achievements and we were probably giving you stick about them not having done it. And here we are years later and that seems like, blimey hell, they were so close. Well, Sitsipa's certainly there.

44:04Just while we're on the subject of bad predictions, David, you've got a new Jasmine Paolini, it seems. You've got to stop singling people out as a good draw. Yes. Or maybe keep going and it's the best thing that can happen to a player's career. Yeah, well, I mean, she sent me a thank you note. Or at least she should have done. Sydney Krauss. Sydney Krauss, who, when we were looking for people who could be a good, the best draw at Wimbledon for Serena Williams, I picked out Sydney Krauss. That was a very grass court specific thing, though, wasn't it, David? Yeah, that's a good point, Matt. She's only gone and won on clay in Kitspiel.

44:48Yeah, you were specifically looking at her. No, but you'd looked at her record and were like, she is not winning a match on grass. She never won a match on grass. But I got to be honest, Catherine is more accurate. I didn't know too much about her. But anyway, I'm going to give her a flowers now because she's just gone and won the 125k in Kitspiel, 6-3, 6-1 over Julia Grapper. So, you know, and she said, I'd like to thank David Law for not believing in me. But can I also mention while I'm here, a title win for Francesca Jones in Rome, also at 125K level. A couple of very funny little notes, or at least interesting ones to me, that she beat four Italians in Rome on her way to that title.

45:36And three of them, she lost the first set, either 6-1 or 6-2. She's just getting hammered in the first sets of these matches. And then her second and third set scores read like this. Six love, six one, six four, six one, six one, six one. Just destroyed everybody once it got to a second or third set. And two of the players she beat were Trevisan and Bronzetti, which is no mean feat. So well done, Fran Jones. She's so tenacious, Fran Jones. So tenacious, very impressive. Competitor, well done her. Just last bit of news on the women's front, Karolina Mukova, who, what, nine days ago was in the Wimbledon final.

46:20She has had what she's describing as a small surgery and she's going to be out for a few weeks. We don't know exactly the timeline, but she has confirmed that she'll be missing Toronto. We don't know the injury. We don't know the surgery. We don't know exactly when she's planning to return. But, yeah, I mean, plus ça change for Karolina Mukova. What can we say without being able to fill in those blanks? But this is Karolina Mukova we're talking about. It is a worry. I mean, her body is always a worry, but, you know. Very little we can say, as you say, other than she has at least reached the women's final despite whatever's causing a problem.

47:10And hopefully it is just a few weeks because it'd be really nice to have a back for the US Open and playing well and feeling fully fit. So fingers crossed. I do, I wonder about the mystery of it, whether that means it's the wrist again or whether it means that it's something that was troubling her towards the end of Wimbledon and she doesn't want to say or reveal that because she's very sporting, Karolina Mukova, isn't she? And she's also very good friends with Linda Noskova and maybe wouldn't want to risk doing anything to detract from that victory. I've no idea. But yeah, it certainly is a mystery that I'm sure will become clearer in the course of time.

47:56Okay, that's it for part two. We'll be back in part three to talk about some other bits and bobs of news, some quite significant news as well from the tennis world this week. Welcome back to part three of today's tennis podcast. Let's start with some news of coaching splits. It is the marriage time of year. It is the split time of year. Probably the most surprising of the splits that we've heard about is that of Felix Auger-Aliassime and his longtime coach, Frédéric Fontaine. I mean, I think they go back right all the way into his teenage years. Now, other coaches have come and gone in that time, but Fontang has been the stalwart, the pillar of that team.

48:43And Felix Orgelia Seem has decided it's time for a change. What do you think of this, David? Do you think kind of regardless of what it ends up yielding, a little bit like Andrei Rublev, it's good to try something. It's good to test out what the ceiling of his game might be if he does make some changes. Like, how risky do you think this is, given the stability that Fontaine has provided over the course of his career? And the fact that he seems to be the kind of guy that needs and values that stability. Yeah, it did take me by surprise. I would not have been at all surprised if this announcement had been made this time last year when he was languishing in the rankings.

49:34You know, he was 30-odd in the world, you know, and going nowhere, really. At the moment, he's four in the world. And, you know, he's just reached the quarterfinals of Wimbledon. He's been edged out in a classic by Novak Djokovic. He's had his semifinal run to the US Open last year. So in that regard, it is a big surprise to me. I mean, I think you could definitely say he's playing the best tennis of his career at the moment in terms of consistency and high ranking and reliability. And his backhand does appear to have made real ground in the last year. That having been said, I mean, he is only still 25 years of age.

50:19He's kind of at his peak or entering his peak now in terms of age bracket, you would think. how much more is there to come out of his game i don't know but maybe he just wants to find out and and if he does i completely respect that and like it um i would and listen with people like alcaraz out of the mix at the moment this this window is bothering people i've just had a little at the rankings and you've got dimanor who's at five in the world who's telling us that he's further away than he's ever been and he's it is his best ranking you know you've got ben shelton who's who's mr grand slam deliverer and yet the last two grand slams he's just not been able to produce at all when he's had this window you've got medvedev who's another one we'll come on to in a minute talking about coaching change he's eight in the world you know but this tells you that these rankings are i mean i don't think this in case of ojali assume i think he's i still think he's on the up overall but they're not satisfied these rankings are a little misleading i think for these players and they get they're questioning themselves existentially as tennis players and And so I think it's reasonable.

51:47I mean, one of the questions we didn't come to in the Dimonor press conference, because it was so traumatic, the whole thing was so harrowing, all of his emotions. One of the Australian journalists asked him, he said, I've never asked you this before, but is this a point at which you would consider maybe your coaching situation? He's been with a long-term coach. you know and dimonor was kind of like no i don't think that's fair to put this at his door but i did also think i wonder whether he's just thinking about it because he seems so disillusioned and they're at their best rankings it's it's there's so many parallels to draw here with these players so if ojali asim just wants to turn over as many stones as he can to see what else might be out there for his game.

52:34All power to him. I personally, I don't think he'll be able to get much better than he is right now, but maybe I'm wrong. Such a good point about how this situation in men's tennis is troubling this pack of players, despite what the number next to their name might be. I mean, David Sinted had it there, Matt, but Daniel Medvedev is split with Thomas Johansson after, what, about a year of working together, maybe a bit less than a year. Now, I know it's been up and down, and the slam results have not been resulting for Medvedev. But there has been good stuff in there. And as David said, like, he's back in the top 10.

53:15Like, yeah, there's been a decent amount of good stuff for Medvedev and Thomas Johansson. But it's not enough. I feel like they know in their hearts that there is an opportunity there, that they haven't been taking for whatever reason. And the time is now. Yeah, absolutely. Particularly for Medvedev with the next two majors being on hard courts and being the ones where I think he does think that he can probably potentially still win one, you know. Yeah, look, Medvedev under Thomas Johansson has played the best tennis I've seen him play in years, I would say. and I really thought that as a player, he'd just become a whole lot less effective at the end of his time with Gilles Savara.

54:08He wasn't able to impact players in the way that he used to. He got some of that back, in particular at Indian Wells when he beat Alcaraz and played a great final against Sinner and then he won some titles as well. He picked up some titles, which is something he hadn't been doing for a little while and he'd always done through his career. So absolutely a success on that level. And he did play a more aggressive brand of tennis. There were some big lows, of course, as well, like the love and love loss. We'll never forget that. And the Grand Sam results have been really poor this year, certainly by his standards and have been for a long time now.

54:50And I do think that feels like the thing that he most needs to get back. And as I said, with these next two coming up on hard courts, the time is now to try and get it back, especially with the uncertainty over Alcaraz. So, yeah, it'd be interesting to sort of see what he does next and also what Thomas Johansson does next. Yeah, I feel like somebody's going to snap Johansson up. Yeah, it's an interesting one because obviously the Medvedev split is different from the Felix split. You know, the Felix split is the equivalent of Medvedev's split from Savara last year, the, like, the wrench of splitting from that constant in your tennis life.

55:40Yeah, I mean, who's Medvedev going to get next? I wonder if Felix is going to snap up Johansson. I could see that, sort of temperament personality-wise. And also, Johansson did what Felix is trying to do. He was a really good player who seized upon his moment and won a grand slam. That's a great point. I do think with Medvedev... Felix and Medvedev share an agent, I think. Oh. Very good, David. I do think with Medvedev, unless somebody can come along and get his serve back to what it was. I mean, okay, he's underperformed at slams big time, But I do think fundamentally it's pretty simple with Medvedev why he isn't the player that he once was and that's that he doesn't have the serve that he once had.

56:33So I don't, unless maybe there is a technical thing that can be done to that shot still that could bring back the glory days. But if not, I don't expect there to be a human being that can come in and get him back there. But we will see. Yui Lehechka is also split with his coach, Michal Navratil. So another player that obviously thinks he could be doing more. You know, we don't think of him in the Felix Medvedev-Shelton bracket, but, you know, it's an opportunity for everyone going down the rankings right now, isn't it? And it's quite right that Lehechka should see himself through that lens, I suppose.

57:23So, yeah, expect some interesting coaching announcements in coming weeks that we will keep you across. Now, some news that dropped yesterday from Ben Rothenberg's Substack Bounces. Pretty jaw-dropping news, I have to say. Certainly, I was pretty shocked by it. And this has now been confirmed by the WTA, who have enacted a policy that requires all WTA players to undergo genetic sex testing in order to maintain their eligibility to compete on the WTA tour. This is from the Bounces Substack. Starting this month, the WTA is taking the unprecedented step of requiring all of its players to undergo genetic testing to weed out any women who may have a specific genetic marker that suggests traces of male biology.

58:19This, as far as my research has shown, that's Ben speaking there, will make the WTA the first independent professional women's sports league or tour to mandate such genetic screening for all of its athletes. Ben tracks the evolution of the WTA's women's eligibility policy in his article. The 2024 version of the policy used very inclusive language and it provided a pathway with certain testosterone thresholds, but it provided a pathway for a biological male with a female or non-binary gender identity to gain eligibility to play on the WTA tour if she reached and maintained the required low testosterone levels.

59:05Now, the new version of this document, the Women's Eligibility Policy, which came into effect on July 1st, shifts from eligibility based on testosterone levels to a new mandatory genetic test normally administered via a cheek swab to determine the presence of the sry gene this would be a one-time test for each athlete because genetic makeup does not change within a person's lifetime the sry gene is a small section of dna typically found on the y chromosome which triggers the development of testes instead of ovaries in a fetus. It's also noted by Ben that the policy, which was previously governed by New York law, is now governed by Florida law.

59:56And as I say, the WTA has confirmed this policy update. A spokesperson for them has said, the WTA's women's eligibility policy is designed to promote equal athletic opportunities in women's professional tennis and maintain fair competition for all players participating in WTA tournaments. Eligibility to participate in WTA tournaments will be confirmed through a required one-time screening process for the SRY gene. Player screening will begin in 2026 following all appropriate confidentiality and data privacy safeguards and concurrent with a comprehensive player engagement program. As I say, I was pretty staggered by this.

1:00:43Maybe that's naive of me, but on the list of threats to women's tennis and women's tennis players, this did not register for me as one that the WTA would be dedicating its time and energy to in the scheme of things. As I say, maybe given the political climate that was that was naive of me but I have I have serious sort of practical and ethical and existential concerns about this Matt what was your reaction yeah similar to you really um I mean I've been I've been troubled I suppose for some time by a lot of the discourse surrounding uh in particular trans women in sports um and I suppose my my summary of how I feel about this right now is the WTA making out this to be a fairness policy but I it feels to me like a like a slippery slope and actually I think is a potentially quite dangerous policing of women's bodies for a for a so-called problem which does not exist at the moment and is is purely hypothetical um now look the the issue of trans rights and participation in sport has been such a lightning rod for online debate in particular and already feeling a little bit nervous talking about it i can already feel the comment sections filling up um but what i will say is that i think there's absolutely a reasonable discussion to be had about protecting the women's sports category there's a reason that that exists and it's a it's a tricky issue and i think it does require a lot of careful thought the problem is that so much of the discourse is driven by people who might originally have had women's rights in mind but instead have turned into keyboard warriors who are just purely set out to attack trans people on their rights, making that their whole personality.

1:02:59And Ben does a good job in the article of pointing out some prominent examples of that. And I actually think that those attacks, as you said, Catherine, on trans women in sports, is actually a smokescreen and a real a feint to throw us off the actual real issues facing women in sport if we really cared about that we would be protecting women and girls from sexual violence and harassment and we would be paying professional women athletes on the same scale as as their male counterparts and we would be promoting them to the same degree and to me these are the issues that the WTA should be focusing on when it comes to fairness and safety.

1:03:45And it feels instead like they've caved to the moral panic and hysteria generated by Trump passing an executive order in February 2025 titled Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports, which mandates that ban on transgender women and girls from participating in female sports. So, yeah, to me, I think that most troubling aspect is what Ben's pointed there, that shift of the WTA rooting itself in Florida and the laws passed there rather than the more liberal New York. And this is the WTA taking their lead from that stance in the same way that the International Olympic Committee did and getting involved in a culture war.

1:04:33and do you really think that anyone who actually has an interest in protecting women will take their lead from Donald Trump? Like, be for real. So, yeah, I think there's a slippery slope here and potentially targeting female tennis players who don't conform with traditional femininity or in creating an environment where trans people, young trans people, those questioning their gender identity feel as if they don't belong in sport and also potentially causing issues for WTA players who've lived their whole lives as women, competed on the tour as women, only to discover that they're intersex. And there have been a lot of examples of that.

1:05:22We've seen a lot of that. And so they're potentially sort of trying to solve an issue that I don't think currently exists and potentially create another, an actual real issue for people. I want to look more into this and find out more about what they're doing, but my initial feelings are to be quite troubled by this because of the context in which it sits. And there is wording in the policy stating that there will be sort of psychological provision for players that are affected in the way that you've just described, which is a good thing, but it also indicates that they are aware of those likely scenarios that this is going to show up.

1:06:12And, yeah, aware of likely legal proceedings, I would have thought, in the future. Yeah, this doesn't stop here. And, yeah, I certainly echo all of those incredibly reasonable, well-made points that you've made there, Matt. And we will keep you posted. And Ben has brought that article from his substack in front of the paywall, and it's worth a read because there's a lot of detail in there. This is a very knotty, complicated issue, which is so often reduced to being uncomplicated and binary on the internet, and it really isn't. That's what bothers me so much about it, that when you want to try to look into it and research it to come to your own view, you are confronted by the discourse that just is so aggressive and so in your face and that bothers me a lot.

1:07:25And I actually think, you know, I think Ben's done a great job there with that reporting and I think you both make, you've helped to distill it all a little, certainly for me, and I think he's done a great job with that reporting. He has, yeah. It's in his Substack Bounces and that article is in front of the paywall. So yeah, very worthwhile checking out. In terms of us, well, and tennis, there are events taking place this week. The WTA has 250 events in Prague and in Hamburg and the ATP has 250 events in Kitschbiel and Estoril. Rise, Kasper Rood, although he was playing this week and managed to not win, didn't he?

1:08:08Yeah, I think he's pulling out of next week. I read something from Portugal and their disappointment to that because I think he was in broad and a third set this week and he was really sinking fast. I mean, I think he was struggling physically out there. Yeah. Juan Manuel Sarundolo. The good Sarundolo. What a season he's having. Such main character energy. from the guy that wasn't even the main character in his family. Just looking at his brother, I'm not having you anymore. So that's what's happening in tennis this week. In terms of what's happening in tennis podcast this week, well, David's off on holiday today.

1:08:56We checked in for this, came online for this pod recording this morning. I was expecting David in a Tommy Bahama shirt and some beach shorts and flip-flops. Instead, I got sort of quite formal David in a dress shirt. And I said, why are you looking so formal, David? And he said? I said, it's the only thing I've got that's clean that isn't packed. So the Tommy Bahama shirts are in the suitcase. And do follow our Instagram for Holiday David content because it is a vibe, folks. and that is a well-earned holiday coming your way. No holiday for Matt. What's the opposite of a holiday, folks? Moving house.

1:09:45Buying a house. Matt's the 2012 me, suddenly. Yeah, for those watching on YouTube, I don't live like this. Yeah, anyone watching on YouTube, the slightly harrowing scene of Matt's empty shelves behind him. He hasn't killed Jude. as a result of England's World Cup defeat. Jude is safely packed, as is the Amanda Anisimova doll and various other chintzy bits of soft furnishings that usually feature in Matt's background. Big week for Roberts. Yeah, big day. Expecting a phone call any moment. Okay. Hint taken, Matt. we'll wrap this thing up. Quite the summer you're having, instead of sort of rest and recuperation around the slams, you're going to Chicago and buying a flat.

1:10:45Don't I know it, yeah. It's good though, it's exciting. It's very exciting, Matt. It's going to be, I always say this, but it's going to be one of those things where you look back and go, did that all happen at the same, it can't have all been at the same time. What, I moved house the day after Spain won the World Cup? That can't have been the same summer as Chicago. Was it the same summer as Chicago? Oh, Chicago. In terms of our plans, folks, we have a show coming out next Monday. It is an interview we've done with The Athletic's Matt Futterman about his book, which is called The Cruelest Game, which is coming out on August the 4th, which I have read the audiobook for, which will also be available to download and listen to from August the 4th.

1:11:35It's about, it's a sort of State of the Nation in Tennis right now book with the sort of central thesis about why tennis players seem so miserable and what structurally and existentially is going on in the sport to make that so. And I know that sounds tough and elements of it are tough, but it also feels really important and really relevant to the sport and it was a fantastic conversation that we had with Matt Futterman a couple of weeks ago and that will be coming out on Monday while David is by the pool. Then we have a Q &A show for Friends of the Tennis Podcast on July the 31st, the day after David gets back from holiday.

1:12:23so do tune in live on YouTube for that if you want to see the peak of David's tan because it'll only fade from that point onwards and then we'll be back with, well, regular shows after that more than weekly. We had a meeting on Thursday to go through our schedule and we have a lot of pods coming up between now and the US Open so lots to be excited about, folks. we have our mascots Bodie, Maisie and Roger we have our top folks and executive producers Greg, Chris and Jeff no shout outs today because Vicky who organises our shout outs and our lives is literally up Mount Vesuvius at the moment or certainly was at the time of writing so it's that season folks, it's wedding season it's holiday season It's moving house season, but we will be back in a couple of weeks.

1:13:24And before that, for Friends of the Tennis Podcast, Matt, good luck. Thank you. David, good holiday. Thank you. We are part of the Athletic Podcast Network and we will speak to you soon.