Defining Moments: with Chad Hogan

7:15Chad Hogan:I mean, I got like sleeping bags and whatnot, but I got to keep it clean for all my gear.

7:20Alex:What happened to Samantha? Where'd you go?

7:22Chad Hogan:Samantha, she was sold.

7:25Alex:Okay.

7:25Chad Hogan:Yeah. And a more reasonable car was purchased.

7:30Alex:For the Topanga Canyon lifestyle?

7:32Chad Hogan:I do have a truck now, which is in the same vein of Samantha, which is a Gladiator. It's a pickup truck version. It's still hooked up, but it's much more for function and less for fashion. Oh, my God. I'm getting flashbacks. It's the family Funmobile now. Dude, the speaker system in this thing was so crazy. It was so loud.

7:51Alex:I used to feel my chest. It was vibrating in my whole body. I was like, can we turn this down just a little bit? He was like, no, no, no. Turn this shit off.

8:00Chad Hogan:Yeah, well, so just to rip on that a bit, I came from the era also where at Rockus Records, when we were there, the last mix of the song, we would go and bring it into the truck to see how it sounded. So music in your car is everything. To this day, my favorite albums are experienced that night driving on road trips in a vehicle. You know what I mean? So there's nothing that replaces that feeling. You know what I mean?

8:28Alex:No, a song in a car is very different than a song in like anywhere else, right? Even like, I don't know, there's no better feeling than driving and listening to music. And I was telling the team also about your apartment in Williamsburg. Yeah. And like, I was like, Chad was here. It was probably what year? 2010, 8, 7, 6? When did you move to Williamsburg?

8:46Chad Hogan:I moved to Williamsburg in 2001, right after 9-11.

8:49Alex:2001?

8:50Chad Hogan:Yeah. But I was already in the neighborhood. I was like in Long Island City in like 96. holy shit and i was dating a girl in williamsburg so i was kind of living between those two houses so i kind of saw what happened what was happening to williamsburg very early yeah like there was like uh black betty planet thai the diner there was literally like four places to go eat or hang out yeah black betty was the bar the diner was the restaurant and planet thai was like the you know the thai food restaurant there was literally like four places not like now like where there's like oh i mean oh my god there's there's an hermes but it was so fun he's like there was just underground parties every weekend and like lofts like the whole the whole waterfront was like the domino sugar factory there was tons of people living in there really and it was just it was wild it was just a crazy time like everybody was just like living life like it was like the real

9:44Alex:like beginning you know i mean williamsburg at that time is like unchartered land i was well

9:51Chad Hogan:i mean i shouldn't say i've actually met people who actually lived in williamsburg way before that So there's always been, like, there was, like, the settlers, so to speak, I guess. I don't know. I mean, obviously, there's the people that, like, are... Have lived here for decades. Yeah, like, the Puerto Rican, Dominican, and Italian, like, people that have lived in the neighborhood for a long time. But there's also been, like, artists and musicians and stuff, like, since probably the late 80s. You know, it's funny.

10:19Alex:I was looking at a New York magazine. and it was from 1992 and it was like over the bridge to Williamsburg like the new bohemia was like the headline which which year 1992 oh wow yeah yeah so it's you know it's been gone for a while you know what is it like to come back and see it now is like you know i came here over the

10:38Chad Hogan:winter and i brought zion and i was expecting this like really crazy difference and to be honest it still felt like home like i walked down bedford from like yeah my old place we stopped by my old building we rang my doorbell no way see if i could get in yeah um we went to motorino i took him to the diner like yeah i just wanted to show him the hood and like you know and it didn't i mean apart from like some fancier stores it didn't feel that much different to me to be honest everybody's like it's so different i was like expecting like this like yeah insane like epcot center yeah no it didn't feel that much different to me but yeah you know it does still have i mean

11:12Alex:the charm is still there it's still one of the best place like people from all over the world come to Williamsburg and come to see Brooklyn. And I still tell people, if you've never been to Brooklyn before, go to Bedford and get a slice of pizza at Vinny's that's still there.

11:24Chad Hogan:I'm a huge proponent of my love for New York and Brooklyn, and I always will have it in my heart. I've never talked bad about it because it's insulated from a lot of the bullshit that the rest of the world has to deal with. New York is always going to be cool. You know what I mean? No, I just... The way people live on top of each other, interact, like the variety and the intelligence of the people that come here is just like it's second to none. You know, like there's no other place like it.

11:51Alex:Yeah, it's the best. And I'm incredibly biased, but I've not been to any other city that I personally could see. So you grew up upstate. So that's like your what town specifically?

12:02Chad Hogan:Well, I was born in like further upstate. I was born in Niyak Hospital. I lived in a bunch of different places in Rockland County. Spring Valley, Pomona. I was born in a trailer park, actually, like pretty far up when I was young, when I was like two years old. And then my mom, my mom and dad were divorced and we moved into an apartment and then we eventually moved into a house. And so we lived in a bunch of different places in Rockland, but it's about 45 minutes away from the city.

12:30Alex:Did you come to the city when you were in like high school or like? Yeah.

12:34Chad Hogan:So anybody that was like even remotely interesting or cool kind of like navigated towards the city at some point in their like young adult life. And so my story really started when I was like 12 and I got into skateboarding. I remember I saw like a Thrasher magazine and I was just like, as soon as I saw it, I was like, what is this? What is this world? Like, you know, because it was already like a substantiated culture at that point. but skating was much more of a west coast kind of thing like there was some skateboarding in jersey and long island because of the surf scene but in rockland there really wasn't much going on and as soon as i got into skating then i was just like 100 honed in i was like this is my life and i've always been that type of person where like i'm obsessive about the things that i love music design skateboarding now the outdoors like that's just part of who i am you know what i mean I'm obsessive to a fault and same thing when I was a kid as soon as I picked up a skateboard I was in love and that opened up a whole door to this culture that was so amazing like transworld skateboarding at the time was being art directed by David Carson David Carson was the shout out to David Carson, legend of the game he was the first dude to do mashed up typography I shouldn't say the first dude he popularized mashed up photography and and photos assemblage on the page and he really brought it to publications in a really distinct manner and then he did ray gun after yeah um so that that in combination with thrasher which was much more different aesthetic it was more underground it was more punk it was like san francisco street skating primarily um those two magazines were really the only it's like now everybody has like you know apps and everything those magazines were the doorway to like everything you know and so i started a zine called team smile that was the name of my crew that's such a 90s like skateboard crew name yeah yeah for sure yeah and i have to say like mike joe joe latif i gotta shout out my boys yeah yeah yeah you wouldn't be these were these were my best friends and they're all you know doing amazing things in their own fields right now but um doing that magazine really got me like introduced to like graphic design typography and believe me it was crude it was like hand-drawn hand-drawn typography like you know I did music reviews like all the latest hip-hop albums that were out like um and then shot a lot of the photos I had some other other people that contributed photos um but zines were very popular in skate culture and in punk culture in the in the 80s uh and that was a big way to for graphic designers to kind of like

15:21Alex:get involved into into that world can i ask about the tools you were using at this time to make

15:27Chad Hogan:it was just photocopier yeah just i was literally like cutting out stuff and gluing it to a paper and then bring it to school photocopying it folding them in half stapling and all zines are half of a a4 sheet you know yeah that's what a zine is you know and so you were just everything kind of by hand everything everything by hand and just from the love of just again, my obsession where like every living moment I needed to be like, you know, and I was also an artist. So like before that I was doing murals at my schools, like I was always drawing. So like, it was just, you know, I was just like always doodling, drawing on myself.

16:02Chad Hogan:Like, you know, that was just like who I was. Creative kid. Yeah.

16:05Alex:Yeah. And that introduces you to hip hop and sort of like music culture and or more rate or more like dance music. Like what's like how to try and connect the dots there.

16:15Chad Hogan:Hip-hop was like around the same time as skateboarding, probably like 13 years old. My mom used to take me to the flea market.

16:23Alex:Okay.

16:23Chad Hogan:Hell yeah. And we would go to the pickle guy.

16:25Alex:Hell yeah.

16:26Chad Hogan:And at that flea market, there was a guy that sold cassette tapes and vinyl. And he had like some of the early like hip-hop records. Like I think the first cassette tape I ever got was like a Fat Boys cassette. Okay. This was probably mid-80s, like early to mid-80s. And that's kind of like when I got into hip-hop. And then it was further solidified by certain skaters like Natus Capas and Mark Gonzalez. There were some street skaters that had a lot of hip-hop influence at the time. And Mike Vileli. Most of the West Coast skaters were into hardcore. but on the East Coast there was like a hip-hop marriage between hip-hop and skating and music obviously all of this is

17:18Alex:like subculture in some ways right? This isn't mainstream culture

17:22Chad Hogan:no at the time it was not even subculture it was literally like everybody hated us like we you know like no one understood us they're like what are you doing? you guys belong in California that's what they used to yell at us from cars and stuff like

17:37Alex:get out of this coast

17:38Chad Hogan:Yeah, like they, I never understood the extreme hatred for skateboarders. Yeah. But that just fueled our fire. And like, we were just like, you know, skateboarding at its core is an anti-establishment like culture. And it should remain that way. It's hard to imagine that now with like the Olympics and stuff like that. Yeah, it's crazy. But Thrasher has really stuck to their ethics. Sure. And that magazine is still successful, which is pretty amazing. It's still thick. It's family owned. Yeah. You know.

18:07Alex:I just read Mark Ronson's book. Have you read it? Night People? Oh my God, you got to read it. It's all about late 80s, 90s rave and nightclub culture. And it's so fascinating because to me, I didn't live through that. And any stories I've ever heard of it are through you and through these iconic venues of New York City downtown and just these parties that, again, this is pre-phones, this is pre-internet, this is pre-all of this. And it just sounded like it was the most fun on earth.

18:36Chad Hogan:Yeah, there was a cross-pollination going on in the early 90s between all those different cultures, skate, hip-hop. In the late 80s, house, hip-hop, and reggae were played at all the clubs. So there was always a synergy between house and hip-hop and dancehall, dancehall, reggae. And then at certain clubs like The Building and Limelight, they started playing in a more industrial form of house, which was called Acid House. and that eventually became techno.

19:07Alex:And he talks about these rooms. There was different rooms and these giant warehouse parties or giant... What's the one you just named? Limelight or whatever?

19:15Chad Hogan:Yeah, building was multi-level. The limelight had multiple rooms. Mars was probably the most iconic. That's the one he was. So Mars is in the movie All the Streets Are Silent and there was a lot of skaters from the shut early Zoo York kind of world that were going to Mars And like we were hanging out with a lot of those kids and we went to Mars during that early time. Yeah. And Mars was like Red Alert on one floor. Kiyoki was a techno DJ on another floor. Funtmaster Flex and Chuck Chillout on the roof. Chuck Chillout was the main DJ and Flex was like carrying records for him. Hell yeah. So this is like early, very early.

19:55Alex:And he talked about how like hip hop was like not the main event. It was like a kind of a side room that like some people would into or they would play at certain hours of the night, like more later into it.

20:05Chad Hogan:But it was Mars was categorized by the floor. Like, you know, the each floor kind of played different different genres. So you could kind of walk up and down the stairs and pick where you wanted to hang out, which was cool.

20:16Alex:You got to read the book, but also you lived it.

20:18Chad Hogan:Oh, I mean, Mars was the most fun. Like me and my friends, we were all like we were in the car Wednesday through Sunday driving to the city almost every night. And we didn't drink or do anything. We were just there to like – Really? Just dance? Because the scene was so like – because you had like the best dancers in New York City that were there. It was just like the style. Everything about it was like magnetic. You were just like, whoa, what is going on? It was so much cooler than anything in the suburbs, you know what I mean? So it was very attractive. And we considered ourselves like kind of part of that scene a little bit.

20:54Chad Hogan:Yeah. And then in the 90s, NASA opened up. And NASA is the first underground rave club in New York City. And me and my friends were there at the very beginning. Every Friday night, the main DJ went on at 5 in the morning. Power Hour DJ. Shout out to Scotto and DB. It was their party. Scotto is still a good friend of mine. And it was just insane. and they had like prodigy from the UK, like big dance acts would come there and play in this little basement dungeon. And it was just like the floors were made out of wood and people would sweat so much that the wood would warp and there'd be puddles of sweat.

21:36Chad Hogan:I mean, people, we would dance until 11 in the morning and come out just like rip our clothes off and throw it in the trash and just like drive home with like no shirt on. Like it was crazy. Like we were just -

21:47Alex:Yeah, no, it sounds so fun though. It sounds so sick. And it's like, I often think about it. It's like, how old were you, right?

21:53Chad Hogan:I was like 19 at that point, I think. And I was considered kind of old. Like there was city kids going to NASA that were like 14, 15. Because there was no drinking there. So like somehow kids were getting in. So some of my friends from that scene were younger than me. Yeah.

22:09Alex:Which is crazy. And it was okay. Like New York and cops and everything like kind of knew about it and like didn't matter. That's kind of the vibe.

22:16Chad Hogan:I don't think anybody fully understood what was going on.

22:19Alex:But it seemed like thousands of people. Me and my friends got pulled over and like, like they, they gave us all the sobriety tests and everything.

22:26Chad Hogan:And we were wearing these crazy outfits and they let us go. And we were like, okay, like.

22:29Alex:Talk about what were you wearing? Like, what would you wear?

22:32Chad Hogan:Um, yeah. So we, we, we were pretty creative. We, we, we started making our own outfits, which at the time was like pretty standard. Like everybody was like experimenting with like, you know, all sorts of new fashion and the stuff that we would see from the British kids. So like there was a group called Alternate that came and these two dancers, they honestly, they look like death. They were like so emaciatedly skinny and on tons of ecstasy. But one guy had a huge T-shirt that had an A on it and the other one had an A and they were dancing. And like everyone in New York City just copied them because it was so good.

23:05Chad Hogan:Like it was like the British like rave style. And that started to like creep over. And then you also had like the Limelight Club Kid thing that was going on at the same time, which is a little different. But yeah, it was fun, man. Everybody was like being super creative. And like, it was, it was really amazing. Like you would walk in there and you knew everybody. And the first hour you were there, you were just like hugging people, like saying, what's up? Like, and then Saturday night we would go to a different party, like in Philadelphia or Boston or DC. Like it was just, it was, it was madness, but really fun.

23:39Alex:I mean, it sounds incredible. And so you go to college and study design or art. And then, yeah.

23:44Chad Hogan:So I, during that time I was kind of, I took a brief like respite from college during that time. And then I went back. Just to party and hang out? I think like, well, I think like from a maturity standpoint, I needed that to like, to, to, to like grow a bit. You know what I mean? To go through that like psychedelic period.

24:02Alex:I mean, it sounds it sounds worth taking time off and just really prioritizing. Yeah. But also, like I always say, like, it's insane that kids just like high school and then go straight to college. And they kind of half has their way through it all. And like they come out and they're like, oh, now it's job time. It's like, yeah, you don't have to go in that order. And people now do take some time off and like people don't even go to college anymore. They just go on YouTube or whatever. But like it makes sense.

24:24Chad Hogan:And so you study design and then I went back to SUNY Purchase and I had a much clearer vision for like what I was going to do. because at that point I knew I wanted to be an artist. And then at purchases where I discovered the Mac, and then I was just like all in. Like Illustrator changed my life. I've never been so obsessed with a program to this day. I love Illustrator. I'll get Illustrator. I already have a Mac tattoo. I'll get Illustrator tattooed on me. That's how much I love the program.

24:58Alex:And then so you graduate school, and then your first job is at The Attic, right? That's the first gig. So for those people that maybe don't know what The Attic is, explain The Attic to a 22-year-old graphic designer right now that probably has no clue. Try to imagine, like, I don't even know how to equate it. Yeah. How did you even get that job?

25:19Chad Hogan:So The Attic is a design studio based in London, right? At the time, they had Huddersfield, London, and then they opened a studio in New York when I joined them. Okay. They went on to open San Francisco and Sydney. So James Huddersfield, he was a punk rock guy. He was doing like street art. And he got a grant from like the Prince's Trust to open a design agency.

25:46Alex:Yeah.

25:47Chad Hogan:Anyway, they were basically taking like the European rave aesthetic and twisting it into like corporate America. so yeah multiple layers like hundreds of layers in photoshop taking grids and making false dimension 3d objects placed like light blurs it was when you first saw it you were like what what is this yeah this is insane you know what i mean so we were doing like probably the most high-tech elaborate like photoshop design we were doing film titles moving image uh we're working for mtv for Nike, everybody. And I was basically like just working on Illustrator and just making elements for them to throw into the Photoshop files.

26:30Chad Hogan:They're like, Chad, make me this. And I'd draw it up and send it to them because these guys were so on another level. And I was making, I think, like 25 grand a year. Hell yeah. And I was working from like 9 in the morning until 3 in the morning every night. And Simon Dixon, my creative director, would be like, thanks for popping in, mate, like when I would leave. I was just like, dude, I live here. We had a cot in there. I think I slept there some nights. I always tell people, growing up in the 90s in that design world, it was crazy, but it was like going to some kind of master's program, basically, and getting slightly paid for it.

27:11Chad Hogan:That's so funny.

27:12Alex:So Simon Dixon runs a studio now called Dixon Baxi. Oh, he's a beast. And I was with his co-founder last night. Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apoorva. Yeah. And they run like. Yeah, I know Apoorva as well. Yeah. And they run like an amazing design studio. Yeah.

27:27Chad Hogan:Simon and Will were super gracious. They kind of like. I knew nothing really comparatively to them. And they took me like on. And like it was an incredible couple of years that I got to work with them. Yeah. It was great. Yeah.

27:40Alex:How hard were they boozing? Like on a. No, they didn't.

27:43Chad Hogan:They were like.

27:44Alex:Really?

27:44Chad Hogan:I mean, I don't know personal things about everybody. I mean, British guys in general. yes get crazy yeah and there was a couple dudes that worked there that told me stories that had my head spinning about Ibiza and like oh yeah like the boys will be boys trips that they took yeah um it was pretty hard but Simon was pretty straight like he he didn't like he didn't really I don't think he did any of that kind of stuff he didn't party like that but um but nine to three

28:08Alex:those were the hours nine am I mean you were lucky you were lucky if you left at three like we we

28:12Chad Hogan:would go out to eat come back go to a party come back oh like it was crazy like yeah yeah yeah the

28:18Alex:The work-life balance wasn't a real - You see, they went to a party. That's true.

28:22Chad Hogan:They went to a party during those hours. Oh, yeah. I would invite people back. That was the balance. I would be at a party and invite people back to hang out while I worked. It's like I got a couple of smiles. It was like a second home. It was insane.

28:34Alex:That's what we're trying to build here at Center, really. People want to leave at 6 o 'clock. I'm trying to go out, come back. You let them leave at 6? Come on, man. You got to give them the thanks for popping in. This is why I needed to have you here because these guys, they don't know how good they have it and i also didn't know how good i had it when i worked for you so it was like this is a generational thing that we just keep passing on but um uh mental health wasn't invented but vibes were high and like the work is insane james somerville also

29:00Chad Hogan:like work was insane yeah you felt like you were part of like a movement okay and that that made everything okay like so shout out to those guys because like i got nothing but love for the attic

29:09Alex:i didn't realize how many offices or how big they were at that point or just like got to yeah yeah

29:14Chad Hogan:Yeah, and I got to go to San Francisco as well and work there for a little bit. So it was fun.

29:19Alex:And so from there, you're like hip hop. Like you got the opportunity to work in.

29:23Chad Hogan:What happened is we got Bad Boy as a client.

29:26Alex:Oh, okay.

29:27Chad Hogan:And I believe we did a couple things for them. And then eventually one of the girls that worked at the attic left to start her own thing. That was basically servicing Bad Boy like in totality. And I was really like one of the only. Well, no, actually Mike Spoljarek. that's my homie from um from purchase and he's a big dog at nike okay but both of us were kind of like the new york kids that knew about hip-hop um the rest of the people there were british and didn't know a ton yeah so i ended up like leaving there and going and working with michelle at m1 which was servicing bad boy and we did like i must have done like five multi-platinum albums for them.

30:07Alex:Which ones, just for the kids at home? Total,

30:10Chad Hogan:112, Faith, Forever, Born Again, Black Rob's Life Story. Black Rob's Life Story was the first album that I did in completion. The cover was started by someone at the attic, and then they tossed it over to me. It was fun, man. It was really fun. It was a good time.

30:32Alex:Album artwork,

30:34Chad Hogan:insides, outsides. And it was like this sweet spot in album design history where we were doing cassettes, vinyl, and CDs. Which is such a weird time.

30:46Alex:How's it going to translate to a tall and skinny? But it was pain.

30:49Chad Hogan:Trying to transfer a 12-inch info onto a cassette was like five-point type executive producer credits trying to cram stuff in. And I imagine these rappers, easy clients probably too. So right now in the music industry in general, not just hip hop, the dudes that are getting signed are full-on marketing agencies. Totally. They have their own fashion guys. They have creative directors. They have videographers all in their camp. During that time, most of these guys didn't really know anything about business or about the music business or about – Marketing. They were just great rappers. They were just rappers.

31:31Chad Hogan:So you would get assigned to work on an album and you'd have to figure out how do I make this personal to them. So I really spent a lot of time on every project in my loft playing their music over and over and over again so that I could put it into my brain and hopefully have it come out as the art that they wanted. You know what I mean? No, it's so interesting. I was so grateful to be in the room, so to speak, with these guys because I loved the music so much. Um, but like, you know, you're a guest into the culture and you have to like respect that. Um, and I, and I always did, I always played my cards the right way.

32:09Chad Hogan:And like, you know, people respected me for that. And the album projects were like some of the best things that I've ever done.

32:15Alex:It's so interesting. Cause again, in today's world, you're so right. Like Tyler, the creator and these like new artists, like they're fully brand visionaries. They, they're, they're total, they're seeing it from a total package perspective, like for the music videos, the album artwork, to the fashion, to everything, to the tours. and back in the day we talked to say adams about this a little bit like oh yeah it's literally just like they just did the music and they were just like record label make me the make me the artwork make me everything like and they were involved obviously but it was not like their vision was really given to the designers to like understand the work and really create the visuals for it

32:50Chad Hogan:so that's a good lead like segue into the next phase of my life which was raucous yeah so um My boy Willow reached out to me. He wasn't my boy at the time. He was a stranger. But he had heard about me, got my number somehow, and invited me to come up to Raucus because he knew that I did album art. And I ended up going over to Raucus to work. And Raucus was a totally different thing. The artists there were very involved. And there was a lot more freedom. Mainstream hip-hop in general, the record companies only wanted an image of the artist that was recognizable on the cover yeah unencumbered by other graphics just like their name and then a picture of them yeah because they didn't want to take the chance of like not being recognized as like you know a kid is going to buy it like they need to know that that's what they're buying underground hip-hop is different the guys are much less like they want to do more abstract stuff some of them just didn't like being photographed in general yeah you know i mean like a company flow i don't think they were ever on any of their album covers um so there was a lot more freedom And we had Ruckus distribution, which was great because we were doing we were doing vinyl for like West Coast artists, guys that weren't even signed to Ruckus.

34:04Chad Hogan:We just had a distribution network. So like Eminem was doing Bad vs. Evil and Royce the Five-Nine stuff like through us. And so it was it was an amazing time. And to be like more focused on the 12 inch at that point, because Ruckus really like was a vinyl like first kind of like record label. It was just amazing. Yeah. And Mostef, Talib Kweli, like, high tech, like... Pharoah Monch. Yeah. Cool G Rap, Smith & Wesson, which they changed their name because of the company, the gun company. Cease and desist. Coco Brothers, yeah. But, you know...

34:38Alex:And you're doing all their artwork. You're doing all this. Like, how big is this design team at Raucous Records when you...

34:43Chad Hogan:Not big at all. There was just a few of us. Like, Graham wasn't a designer, but he was in the room just being, like, being Graham. Yeah, yeah, just hanging. And then Willow was... He came from fashion. and he was doing DC and drawers back on the West Coast. So he was trying to build a merch line for Rockus. And then my boy Andrew, who became a pretty serious producer, and he's produced for Cam 'ron and those guys quite a bit. Andrew was our intern, and he came up and became a pretty good producer and artist, photographer, graphic designer.

35:18Alex:So you're churning out a lot of album artwork at this point.

35:21Chad Hogan:Yes. I feel like in my head, I picture you like. Oh, and then Howie McDuffie. I got to say Howie McDuffie was the greatest character at Raucus. He was like a street team slash A &R slash like if you needed something done, give it to Howie McDuffie. And it was just the funniest, most amazing human ever.

35:38Alex:And at this point, like rap is just like really, truly bubbling or sort of coming out of this.

35:44Chad Hogan:It was literally the best time ever. Like we were doing that. I was also doing the McShow Power Summit with Renee and Lallette.

35:51Alex:Talk about what the McShow Power Summit is.

35:53Chad Hogan:Mick Show Power Summit is a four-day-long party in the islands at a hotel.

35:59Alex:This is like Fyre Festival, right?

36:01Chad Hogan:No, no, no. It's under the guise of business. So all the Mick Show DJs are invited to come. Some of them get to go for free, depending on their level in the game. And then the brands, the record labels, the liquor brands, the car brands, they all go there to woo the DJs and do deals with them. And during that whole week, it's really funny. Like there's breakfast panels, there's seminars, and then there's music. Okay. So like starting first thing in the morning, there's like, you know, P.E. Pablo like performing at the beach, you know, at like 10 a.m. Open bar, you know, like.

36:40Alex:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:40Chad Hogan:And then there's like a lunch panel. And then like, so you're just going through the day, getting progressively more inebriated throughout the day.

36:48Alex:Yeah.

36:48Chad Hogan:And then the parties go until four in the morning. And then you just do it all over again. Sick. And it's just complete mayhem, but so fun. All the artists are there with no security or limited security because it's limited to one hotel. So if you're not at the thing, it's not like Winter Music Conference where anybody can show up. Sure. And shout out to Renee McLean and Lilette because they put on the best. It was awesome. Yeah. I got to meet so many people. In fact, the reason why I went to vitamin water stemmed from that relationship with Renee. But yeah, so we did that. We worked on it like half the year, like organizing it, designing it.

37:28Chad Hogan:I was the creative director. I shot the photos for it. And then we spent four days at the event.

37:33Alex:I remember you showing me photos through the years of this event because obviously people don't have iPhones, right? So it's only people with real cameras and sort of documenting this stuff. And so you have all these amazing photos and it's like some of the artists that are just there pre-fame or pre, you know, sort of Kanye West or like, who else was that? T-Pain, like when he first came out, like, I mean, Outkast, they were already established.

37:59Chad Hogan:Chris Brown, you know, like any like Swizz Beats, his penthouse parties, he would just like play all the music like six months before it was about to come out. It was just awesome. Kanye did a listening party like that, which was amazing. So there would be these private events up in the penthouses for just a limited number of DJs. And then producers would play tracks for these guys that weren't going to be out for six months. So you got to hear everything before anybody else did, which is amazing. For someone like me, I was just like, this is like... And you're just hanging out with everyone. Like, you know, everyone was cool and just like having a good time.

38:40Chad Hogan:And there was a couple little incidents here and there, but like, you know, which were kind of funny. But yeah, 50 when the G-Unit record dropped. I remember I have a picture of him when he walked in and just like he just commanded the whole. Everybody was just like, yo, like. So the last night of the event, which was a Saturday night, the biggest label would do like an open to the public like concert. Okay. And that was generally like Shady Records or Interscope or the bigger labels would do that.

39:10Alex:What would you compare this to today? I guess it's kind of like a – I know it's been watered down, but it's like ComplexCon type stuff. It's like a convention, but much, much, much, much smaller.

39:20Chad Hogan:ComplexCon, anybody can buy a ticket and go. That's fair. So to be honest, there's really nothing like it. Yeah. And I talk to Renee every once in a while, and I'm like, we got to figure out a way to either bring it back, do a documentary, do a book about it. because it was special. Yeah. You know, like it was the performances, the vibe, like, you know, it was just. It was all industry people. So it's industry only. That's a big difference. Yeah.

39:45Alex:And that makes it sort of like a closed sort of insular kind of community and super interesting. From there, obviously, you mentioned already, but like vitamin water. So that connection from hip hop eventually leads to relationships that eventually lead to you. Well, you skipped one step. Oh, what did I skip? Jay-Z. Okay. A small step. All right. Okay. Back it up. Back it up. So, yeah.

40:10Chad Hogan:So, when I was at Raucous, I think we got bought by MCA at some point.

40:16Alex:All right.

40:17Chad Hogan:And then soon after that, the company just completely went under. It was like we became an imprint on MCA, I think, uptown. Got it. MCA. And then somehow the whole thing just fell apart and I was jobless. and I spent like a good six months just designing my house. And that was kind of like the beginning of my like understanding that, hey, maybe I could design furniture or do something because I had a lot of free time. And I was like, that's a whole nother story.

40:44Alex:Is that the Williamsburg place? Is that the place? Or no, this is pretty.

40:47Chad Hogan:Yeah, so I'll give you the abridged version of that story. So I went to Paris with this company called Surface to Air and I worked in Paris for like six months. Okay. somewhere somewhere in this time period like late 90s and we me and my friend Rajan and Jeremy and a couple other people we were at Hotel Dukap which is like the most prestigious like hotel in at Cannes and everybody's wearing tuxedos we're just walking around just like in our normal clothes and then they informed me they're like oh by the way we don't have any place to stay and I was like what? They're like yeah the kid we were supposed to crash with like just completely ghosted so we have no place like we took the train all the way from Paris to Cannes and we had no place to stay and oh it's Cyril.

41:35Chad Hogan:Cyril and Rajan were just like we're wandering the streets at four in the morning looking for a place to stay and they're just like they're like let's sleep on the streets in front of the church and I'm like no I'm not sleeping on the streets and then Cyril was like oh I know we'll go stay with my um with my godfather and I was like all right so we jump into a cab, drive off up into the hills. It's like six in the morning. We get to this dude's house and he's a famous sculptor in Europe. And he had this like beautiful Mediterranean property with like a handmade house with like a wrought iron fence with like faces like twisted into the metal, a little path winding up to the front.

42:14Chad Hogan:And there was everything in this house. The guy opened the door. He didn't speak a lick of English. He welcomed us in, cooked us breakfast. Everything in the house was handmade. The tiles on the floor, there was like a stainless steel bullhorn on the on the refrigerator. The mirrors had etchings in them. He took me to his studio and he had this like this crazy sculpture studio and everything was handmade. Even the wrenches had like totems carved into the handles. Like I had never seen art like that in my life. I had a Ricoh R1 film camera with one picture left. I'm at this guy's house and I'm like, what do I do?

42:47Chad Hogan:Like, how do I take a picture of this? Anyway, that experience changed my life. Wow. That one night. Wow. Because when I got back to Brooklyn, I questioned everything. I was like, you're not even an artist. You're making like album covers, like little pieces of paper that go inside of a plastic case. Like this is meaningless. Like these guys live in their art. Like they live, like everything is made by them. So raucous goes under, I go to Home Depot and just get a truck. I rent a truck from U-Haul and I fill it with wood and I just build all my own furniture. I'm just like on a mission to like.

43:24Chad Hogan:So that was my first foray into interior design. And then a friend of mine was working at The Rock and she hit me up and she was like, hey, they're looking for a creative director. Come by. Let's talk. And then that's when I started my campaign.

43:39Alex:And so who do you meet with? Like on that first like meeting? Is it like Jay or is it like Jay's team? and is Dame Dash in the picture at this point?

43:49Chad Hogan:It was mostly Dame. Okay. So just to be clear, I worked for Rock Aware.

43:54Alex:Okay.

43:55Chad Hogan:So I wasn't at the record label. I was at Rock Aware.

43:58Alex:Got it.

43:59Chad Hogan:Rock La Familia. It was like the parent company for C. Ronson, State Property, America Magazine. Oh, shit. Ture Watches. Wow. Armadale Vodka. They had probably like nine or ten brands at that point.

44:13Alex:He's a Jay-Z at this point in his career who was like kind of just starting out. Not just starting out, but not that down the road. He already has nine companies.

44:20Chad Hogan:Well, a lot of these companies were companies that were partnerships between Dame and other people. Some were involved with Kareem Biggs and Jay, but I think that's where some of the splintering took place. But I don't want to speak on all that. Yeah, no, no. We don't need to get there. But anyway, the people that I met at Rock Aware were amazing. like Aunt Lava, Teddy. That's where my first job with Teddy Yu. And then Emmett Shine. Yeah, he was on the pod. Yeah.

44:58Alex:And so you're there and you're... So is a lot of the work like clothing graphics? Or is it like...

45:04Chad Hogan:It was marketing for the clothing brands. We weren't doing the graphics for the clothes. That was a whole different division. We were doing the marketing for the brands.

45:11Alex:And this was a big brand. I mean, at this time, again, rock...

45:14Chad Hogan:Like Rock Aware was kind of like the breadwinner. And then these other ones were kind of up and coming. Like State Property was pretty big. C. Ronson had like a moment. Yeah. I mean, it was like, you know, a lot of people were into C. Ronson for a while. And and then the other brands were, you know, they were they were up and coming.

45:33Alex:And so at what point does someone sort of say, hey, this is a beverage company in Whitestone, Queens that is putting vitamins into water?

45:40Chad Hogan:oh so i i was at winter music conference with my friends at the shore club and a recruiter called me okay i think her name was kelly and shout out kelly yes shout out to her and um i was on a balcony at some like event and i could barely hear her and she was like she's you know she tried to set up this thing i was like vitamin water like why would i want to work for a beverage like yeah yeah just didn't even understand like the call like it was just like i was like all right whatever Like, you know, I'll call you back, I guess. And at the time, this was very convenient because at the time, like designing in hip hop was becoming less and less attractive.

46:20Chad Hogan:I think like doing what I really like to do is album covers. And I obviously wasn't doing that anymore. And the Rock Aware thing was kind of like a, you know, it was kind of like a like a bull ride. You kind of just hold on for life. Sure. Yeah. Hope you don't get tossed off. So this came at a perfect time. And I had heard through people that Vitamin War was this amazing company and that I should at least go and check it out. So the connection there was Chris Lighty. He went to Mixshow Power Summit and James Cruz. And I believe they were the ones that gave Rohan the information about me. And that's how they got my name.

47:00Alex:So you go into White Zone, Queens. You go to the office. And you meet Rohan? is who do you meet with there oh man i'm i think i met ro and mike mike first day yeah and they were like we are we're a beverage company and we need a creative director was that sort of generally the vibe or like what what were they like looking for i again like because there's no creative team right at this point there was no creative team there was a brand team and they

47:26Chad Hogan:were looking to build a creative department they wanted to take people from arts and entertainment not from cpg because cpg was kind of lame and just like you know they wanted to like i think they wanted to behave like a record label really so record labels like when you have a an artist that's like coming out with like has a has a single and it's it's hitting you just have to pour all your money behind that artist you know you have to be in the moment um there's no long term strategies or like you know well there used to be artist development i guess but yeah you have to be like, you know, you have to know what's going on and just put money where, where it makes sense.

48:02Chad Hogan:And I think that's Rohan's idea was just to like be reactive to what was going on in culture. Sure. And not be like, so stayed and like, you know, like creating like, you know, long-term strategies and just behave like a record label. So, you know, there were some people that came over from MTV. There was me. He was just trying to hire people that weren't from CPG.

48:24Alex:Non-traditional sort of like out of the box thinkers and people that were, yeah, that could understand this out of the box beverage company. Yeah. So you're there for like a couple months. You're like, I just need one designer. I just need one really talented young designer from Oceanside, New York. And, you know, just talk a little bit about, you know, when I interviewed and just, you know, again, I'm not going to make this all about me and our work together. But that same recruiter, I believe, is the one that reached out or answered. Yeah, I think because I spoke to her recently or she like recently.

48:59Alex:No way. On LinkedIn, I got a message being like, hey, I was the one that placed you back in the day. And I was like, she was like, congrats on everything. And I was just like, holy shit. Because there was this one recruiter that was putting a lot of people into this beverage company. Yeah. And I believe the general brief was like, we want people, yeah, that were non-traditional, I guess. I don't know. It was just like a very specific vibe that they were trying to curate with people. Personality with purpose. Personality with purpose.

49:30Chad Hogan:Or personality over skills.

49:32Alex:And I remember... Attitude over skills.

49:34Chad Hogan:Yeah, which was kind of demeaning to certain skilled individuals.

49:38Alex:You're like, what do you mean? I'm the most skilled designer that you've ever seen. You're like, attitude, attitude first. but no I and so I remember they my my that recruiter conversation I had like one time I was like what should I wear and they're just like oh it's very casual and I remember I wore a red polo and black like tucked into black slacks and I came in and I was like hi hi Chad uh I'm Alex Center nice to meet you and you asked me like a couple questions about like what magazines I liked

50:09Chad Hogan:it was important back then no i know and you're like what music do you listen to what magazines

50:13Alex:yeah that's the input that you gotta pour into the brain so you could come out the other end that was the interview and then i and then i remember rohan came into the interview and i had because i'd worked for the knicks as an intern yeah and i had season ticket package as like one of the things i'd worked on and he came in and he was like and you showed it to him he's like maybe i should get season tickets for the knicks you know he didn't it wasn't considered as an as a design piece of work. It was just he should get tickets. And I remember going home and like I was like, I think that went well.

50:42Alex:Like me and Chad really connected. I really we went to the same school because you went to UB for a minute. And I was just like, we both like hip hop, you know, and and I remember I went home and I got the job. I was like a Friday and they're like, you start Monday, kid. And that like my life changed. You changed my life. You gave me a job. You gave me an opportunity. And it was some of the most fun I've ever had in my life. And I'm here to say thank you.

51:07Chad Hogan:Well, it was, it was, it was an amazing moment and I'm beyond happy and proud of like everything that you've done. And yeah, it was, it was a, it was a great day. And I think like part of the impotence for your hire was that we needed someone with sports knowledge. You know what I mean?

51:23Alex:Which is really important.

51:25Chad Hogan:I didn't have it at that point. And you, you like, for me, passion is everything. Like, you know, like passion is what's driven my entire career and i saw the passion in you that how much you loved like yeah sport and design and that's that's what you need you know what i mean like everything else

51:42Alex:can be taught you're gonna make me cry like that's because i talk about this sometimes because i i talk about how like a non-traditional path for me was to go into to get that take an internship at the knicks yeah and like as a designer growing up like there weren't many designers that like sports like and yeah for me to take that internship like had work in it that got me to your, your, you know, to your office and to show you sport design. And at that time, vitamin one had a bunch of, uh, uh, athletes on the roster that were these local heroes and you, you know, what you needed and was someone that could design and, and also we'll have sports or understood sports.

52:21Alex:And like, that's just like, again, just like, I couldn't have scripted that. It's just like one of those things that just, that was my path. And my path was around my thing. And your thing, your path is obviously insane and incredible. But I just think about that. Like every person goes on their own journey and it's like, it has to be guided by who you are and what you like. Right. Like, and, and otherwise you're just kind of trying to find someone else's path and do what they do. Cause that's what they like. But like, for me, it was like sports and then eventually to, to beverage. And I don't know, man, I'm, I'm just, I'm look back on it again.

52:54Alex:And I just think about the people that were there and the culture. And I still bring up Vitamore on so many calls to people. I was like, yeah, I worked on Vitamore in like the, you know, 2000s. They're just like, their eyes light up and they're like, holy shit. Like, yeah. Because talk about like what it was like in that building, like those years.

53:10Chad Hogan:Yeah. So the reason why I wanted to work there is just the energy was just insane. Like it was definitely a different world than what I was used to. it was a little bit more of like the bro like jock guys like the the sales team like goldie and those guys yeah but everybody was very friendly and like they were all like playing sports in the office like there was like sausage ball and like brazilian foot tennis and there was a golf thing and like it just like the the office was pretty terrible awful um from a design perspective it kind of looked like an insurance company or something yeah um but the people were no one really sat down everybody was just like walking around chatting like it was just very like it was kind of like micropolee's energy like just infectiously like all around the entire office you know just like that positive like voracious like attitude you know what i mean and it was infectious you know and you know you caught on to it um and you know it's funny i was just telling a story um like you know i came from the music background where everything was like oh hookups you know like you know you do this i'll do this for you um get me in here like you know i i was notorious for always just like bringing like way too many people to events and everything and the first week at vitamin water oh it was like a kelly clarkson thing oh hell yeah shout out kelly clarkson my wife laura like it was her event and they like invited me and i just like showed up with like five dudes and like and like they were like who the hell like who's this guy think he is like and i'm like well that's just how it works like you know like i didn't even think anything differently but yeah um i there was definitely a a transition that i had to well i don't know that i fully transitioned i think i brought my own like did they let all your boys in uh yes yeah yeah yeah i you know i never had a problem with getting people in that was always like pretty easy for me but um it was just like a different culture like especially after we got bought by coke because coke like has very strict rules about everything and like you can't Yeah.

55:07Chad Hogan:There's no such thing as gifting or like, you know, yeah. But the music world is just behaves completely differently. It took me a while to like make that transition to like the corporate world, so to speak.

55:19Alex:Yeah. And it's funny because like that looking back, it's like pseudo corporate, you know, obviously as it became Coca-Cola became more corporate, but like, yeah, it was a slow burn into like,

55:29Chad Hogan:you know, like slacks and tucked in shirts. they started invading like yeah coming up from atlanta and like before you know it like i always

55:39Alex:thought that like your like energy and background and your design skills and everything and um was was was so much of like what drove the cultural cachet of vitamin water in my mind again i'm a i'm a 21 year old kid and you were just coming from hip-hop and we were doing this like you know 50 cent artwork and you had um one of those flip phones the sort of oh the sidekick dude i tried

56:02Chad Hogan:to get a side i was gonna give you one i was oh no i was trying to get a sidekick dude because so funny story about the sidekick um one of my first trips to the like i was holding on to the dream like you know like sidekicks were very like integral in the music industry for a certain period and then they were quickly adopted by like teenage girls soon after that and everybody had transitioned to blackberry and i was not ready to give up the sidekick just yet and we were at um So hip hop. We were at a shoot for a commercial with all these like pretentious LA people. And there was a stainless steel desk that was like hollow.

56:39Chad Hogan:And I put this phone down on it. And it had like some Rick Ross, everyday I'm hustling, like ringtone or something. Hell yeah, yeah. And I had to use the bathroom. I went to the bathroom and left it on the table. And for all these producers, it was like a big like pre-pro meeting.

56:53Alex:Okay.

56:53Chad Hogan:And guess who calls me like 50 times? Who? Darren. Oh, yeah, yeah. Shut up. And I'm in the bathroom and I hear it going off. And I'm like, oh my God, what do I do? When I came back, the hatred, the piercing eyes of hatred that went through my soul at that table. It's amazing that a device could cause that much division.

57:15Alex:I distinctly remember it. I distinctly remember you having one and just being like, dude, this guy is the man. I just looked up to you so much.

57:23Chad Hogan:I was holding on to the dream with that device. Thank God the iPhone came out. because BlackBerry sucked for designers.

57:31Alex:It wasn't our thing.

57:32Chad Hogan:You know what I mean?

57:33Alex:I remember I got the iPhone like the first day it came out. I remember I brought it to Vinewater and Rohan was like, I need to see it. And like, I remember him like trying to get into it. It was like a two-letter. They're trying to get the files. And I just like, no, you got to press the button at the bottom. And he was just like, that's how new the iPhone was. That people had no idea. We don't have enough time to go through all the stories, but I just have some here. Remember we went to Vegas and we hung out with LeBron and the Redeemed team?

57:57Chad Hogan:Yes, of course. Yeah. remember we went to LA and I fell down the stairs so okay um I was gonna I was gonna bring you shoelaces okay yeah yeah yeah so Alex used to wear his shoes kind of like really wildly untied almost like the way skaters did like in the in the 90s but like he didn't skate and we went out way too late we had to shoot the next morning it was a complete disaster actually it was totally my fault I like forced him to go out it wasn't even like his fault and we came back to the

58:24Alex:roosevelt in la and my first time in la and i never i was going to my room and he was going to

58:29Chad Hogan:the elevator bank and he literally just didn't see three steps and face planted off the steps into the lobby like right in front of the reception and his shoes shot off well his shoes went two different directions it was the craziest thing i was like damn it like so that was a good story yeah the next morning we got into serious trouble because we were like very late for yeah I think we overslept. Well, I believe I overslept.

58:53Alex:I also got.

58:53Chad Hogan:I think I was trying to wake you up.

58:55Alex:I got stuck in an elevator that night. And then so it's just like everything that could go wrong on a trip did. I fell down the stairs. I got stuck in an elevator. And then the next morning slept through my alarm. And I wake up and it's just like, hey, I had to send some guy. You sent a guy into my room and you're like, we're three hours late and we have to drive to San Diego. Oh, yes. Alex Smith. San Francisco 49ers. Oh, my God. And I remember like the shoot went okay. Like it was fine. And then we got back and we got, I remember we got brought into like Rose office and you and I had to sit there.

59:25Alex:Like we were got like the tension. Yeah. We were like, we were like the bad kids.

59:30Chad Hogan:Like I got, I got arrested. I got lunch.

59:33Alex:So it's funny. I have it here in my notes. I didn't know if you wanted to talk about it, but remember that time we went out to lunch and you got arrested. That's here on the blocks. Yeah.

59:43Chad Hogan:Yeah. Yeah. We went to, what was the Sam press? Yeah. Press. Shout out to Brian. Brian Karp and me went to elementary school together. I think it's still there. Yeah. Press 195, right? Yeah, sure. Great sandwiches. Best sandwiches. Yeah. We were coming back and I got pulled over for a broken taillight. And the cop, I guess I had a ding on my license for some right turn I made on red. It was like a traffic violation. And he's like, I'm sorry, your license is suspended. I have to take you in. And I spent the night in Queen Central booking during lunch at Vitamin Water. I don't think any – well, actually, I should – someone – I'm not going to say her name, but I'm not the only person.

1:00:22Chad Hogan:Someone else at Vitamin Water spent the night in jail too.

1:00:24Alex:Hey, I don't recall exactly the details, but I just remember going to lunch and then being like, oh, man, how are we going to go back to work and not tell people that Chad didn't make it back? We went to go get sandwiches.

1:00:38Chad Hogan:It was kind of par for the course during that period. I don't think it was that big of a deal those type of shenanigans were pretty like remember the keg that one of the agencies sent us a keg and we got into serious trouble and we were like we gotta drink this thing to bring it back to my house and we had an impromptu party to get rid of the beer

1:00:56Alex:that was really important we had to get rid of that keg I remember we had a Four Loko party at my Williamsburg apartment

1:01:01Chad Hogan:oh the Four Loko party was crazy

1:01:03Alex:yeah yeah I got a Williamsburg apartment because I wanted to be like Chad and eventually 10 years later got my own place and uh for loco had just come out oh wow the coolest good shit and we just like yeah it was

1:01:14Chad Hogan:like hard to really see how many we can drink yeah so the negative effects of it would come on

1:01:18Alex:but i didn't have any furniture because i was like moving in because i was so i was like oh this is perfect we'll throw a party in my place yeah uh for loco it was it was a good a good time if i remember um remember medwin tried to threaten me with a baseball bat um this is well that that happened quite a bit that was really early he used to walk around with the bat yeah like when

1:01:36Chad Hogan:when the files were due for the listeners,

1:01:38Alex:we had a production guy who, his name is Medwin and he used to, he's a chef and used to run kitchens or work in kitchens. And so he treated the design sort of process like a kitchen and he needed his salmon, but the salmon was artwork files for trucks or something. And I just remember he would just stand behind me and be like, where's my file center? Where's my file center? And I was just like, I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out these clipping paths, you know? And like it was, you had to have a sort of mediation. Yeah.

1:02:06Chad Hogan:between us because you're like what about this the story when uh one of my friends darren was like interning for us or not even interning he was freelancing yeah this is the best story so he's he's sitting there and like i come out of a meeting and some other people alerted me to his behavior and they were like your friend is like he's like he's not doing his work he's like working on his own personal projects at work so you got to talk to him so the next morning we drove in together and i was like darren listen man like if you're gonna work here you gotta work on projects. He can't work on personal stuff.

1:02:37Chad Hogan:And he's like, oh, dude, dude, I'm sorry, man. It's not going to happen again. So the same day, after I had the same exact day that I had the conversation with him, I'm in a meeting and I come out and he's sitting like his station was literally like everyone could see his screen from where he sat. He was like at a little chair. Yeah, we had cubicles, but he didn't

1:02:54Alex:have a cubicle. He was like more in like the central part of the entire office.

1:02:59Chad Hogan:Yeah, I come around the corner. He's sitting like this, like with his Mac and he's got a picture of himself like blown up 300 % Photoshop, like making some funny face. And he's retouching his skin, like getting rid of acne. He's just like, like feathering off. Like, and I was like, you know what?

1:03:19Alex:You know what I remember from that story? Not only was he Photoshopping himself in this photo, he was on a cross. he was he had photoshopped himself onto a cross because yeah desus i believe uh darren uh photoshop is a hell of a drug and so he was and you were just like what the fuck darren because chad um again has many friends and and a very very amazing crew of people that you've sort of rolled with and and brought through your whole life emmett shine you know like great amazing talented designers and so he brought in different people that i was able to meet because i was you know a full-time person but there was also like freelancers and people and darren was the funniest

1:03:59Chad Hogan:and the best by far yeah my friends were like awesome but like always a little bit like

1:04:05Alex:dangerous they weren't they weren't suited for the uh corporate world because chad like you you assimilated because obviously you're very charming and lovable and talented and so everyone there loved you but i think the people that you brought in maybe didn't get the same assimilation or maybe they weren't quite ready to play the game.

1:04:24Chad Hogan:Yeah, exactly.

1:04:25Alex:And then we got bought by Coke for$4 billion. That happened. And the rest is kind of history.

1:04:34Chad Hogan:One little anecdote. The first day that I joined Vitamin Water, Rohan said to me, he was like, Chadwick, we need a new office. This office sucks. And I wasn't like an interior designer. I was like, all right. So I went to the store. I bought some architecture magazines and started looking at them like magazines again, like, you know, the gateway prior to social media. And I was like, all right, like I'll start working on it. And then like it never happened when he was there. But after he left, we finally got we got funded to build our own office. I became the design lead on the project, worked with the architect over the next two years, and I fell in love with three dimensional design.

1:05:14Chad Hogan:and that now I do interior design. That was kind of like my gateway to doing three-dimensional work was that. And so like Rohan was like, he didn't really have anything personally to do, but like in a weird way he did. He was just like, he had, I think he had belief in me that I could do it.

1:05:31Alex:That's so funny. He's like, Chadwick, let's go. Yeah. Like, come on. Well, cause you have incredible taste. And like, I think people just there were like, you know, Chad can do everything. And so it was like, we need a new office. Chad make this happen. Yeah. And so, yeah, no, it was in Manhattan, right? It was 38th and Madison. And I remember, because obviously I was there, but like, this was like your baby. You were like, I'm going to like, again, you just throw yourself into everything that you do. And so you just threw yourself into this building, a two floor Manhattan office. And what a cool project.

1:06:01Alex:I remember two by four did the graphics, but you were like, not just involved in like the interior design, you were like furniture and like every single little detail.

1:06:09Chad Hogan:Yeah. I got to get real. I, you know, I think like some clients might have just sat back and say like bring me like you know but i i saw it as an opportunity for something that was like interesting to me to like maybe learn a little bit through the process and so i i took the reins and really like threw myself into it and i was like i love this like there was something like ephemeral about like you know some of the stuff we were doing like you know packaging or like you know even even records vinyl i think is probably the most like coveted thing that you could do but like printing in general sure you know like it's kind of like

1:06:44Alex:throw away it to a bit i mean you literally drink it and throw it out but when you walk into a space

1:06:49Chad Hogan:you get a feeling like you you get to interact with like you know with furniture and like you know environmental graphics so i still get to design like you know graphics because i'm doing like yeah i'm making brands kind of like headquarters a reflection of who they are Yeah. How they were founded, what they're about. And, you know, you get to do storytelling within the four walls of the space.

1:07:13Alex:And you have this, obviously, love of design. And so it's like, yeah, it's the same way you're telling stories about rappers and like through the album artwork. You're telling stories about brands and through their spaces. And so it's funny, like looking back on it, it's like what a gift to be able to like just jump into a giant office project who has basically never done that before with Coca-Cola's money and budget. and it came out awesome and but also just sent you on this whole other career trajectory yeah

1:07:40Chad Hogan:i mean you have moments in your career and you won't realize it until afterwards where like they're like defining and you know yeah you know you you've had some incredible ones um but like it's just like a slight variation or a turn and then all of a sudden you're like wow this is like

1:07:57Alex:a new path you know and sliding door thing like what if that office they decide to never even build that office or something like you know who knows yeah like you know there's i always saw

1:08:07Chad Hogan:myself doing it i just needed the like springboard to do it so um thank god you know yeah so talk

1:08:13Alex:about a little bit about like so so how long have you been doing interior design i've been doing

1:08:17Chad Hogan:uh chandler farms interior design for like 11 years plus and you know i get to work with like mostly uh startups and brands um designing office spaces but i also do residential yeah um talk

1:08:31Alex:about some of the stuff you've done obviously i went to the liquid death offices and so you did

1:08:34Chad Hogan:those which is so sick i did the liquid death office which was amazing because they're they're literally like i couldn't imagine like a more perfect partner from like a cultural standpoint i mean like we have a lot of a lot of things in common and you know they're just they're big thinkers and they they're funny and you know they just they encompass a lot of the stuff that i really really love um yeah and you know i get to work with like amazing brands that are that want to think big and do amazing things so it's like it's it's it's a different it's a different animal than than residential residential it's like you know it's a little bit more like expected but with brands you get to do fun things it's kind of fun though i mean like i remember you told me that

1:09:15Alex:you built a tp for like will smith or something i remember that like uh yeah for his for his son

1:09:20Chad Hogan:for Jaden. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was kind of a strange project, but that was right. That was right around the beginning. Like when we first started.

1:09:28Alex:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, it's just like such a cool like path, like every, it feels like every decade you've reinvented yourself and like you found these new things that you get passionate about and, um, the outdoors, obviously maybe, uh, you know, sort of the thing that I feel like over, like, you know, I mean, I know it's been a sort of long journey, but it's like, you just like throw yourself into it and you just kind of Like, yeah, you are starting or you have a sort of a canyon lab, which is another thing based in the outdoors. Like talk about some of the like outdoors trips you've done.

1:09:57Chad Hogan:Yeah. So I think like it's important for digital people, creators and designers to like have a break from all this stuff.

1:10:07Alex:Touch grass is what the kids call it. Yeah.

1:10:09Chad Hogan:For me, it was even deeper than that. I needed to break away from New York City. New York City will grab hold of you in many different ways. and backpacking and you know going on trips was my way to kind of like disconnect from that world and it changed my life you know like i was at the bottom of the grand canyon with one of my friends matt and that's when i had the revelation like i i had i had my grandmother's ashes with me um which i had for like several years after she passed she was a she was a like very close like relative of mine and that was the time that i decided that me and laura were going to be together I mean, like, so the outdoors can have profound effect on you.

1:10:49Chad Hogan:You know, like it's great to be wrapped up in design and packaging and all this stuff. It's beautiful. But you need to like offset that by being like in the natural world. Like, at least that's what I believe. Yeah, I know. And it also just replaced my passion for skateboarding that I have because like the outdoors has magazines, gear, trips, friendship. and all that stuff that skating was to me is what my outdoor trips are now, which I do with my friends and now with my kids. I was going to say, now you're passing it on to the kids. How's that been like taking them out on some trips? It's amazing.

1:11:22Chad Hogan:Like, you know, so it all goes back to passion. Like, you know, like some people kind of put their, you know, their, their life on hold when they have kids to like, just be with them. Sure. I think it's important to be super passionate and continue what you love in front of them.

1:11:39Alex:Yeah.

1:11:39Chad Hogan:Because they're going to see that passion and then they're going to be like, oh, wow, like, you know, dad's really into this. Like, you know, he's really into this. You know what I mean? And like, hopefully they're going to develop their own passions and I can like, you know, support them and their passions going forward. But I don't think you'd ever change who you are or what you're like about just because you've had kids, you know, but.

1:11:59Alex:At what age did you introduce them

1:12:01Chad Hogan:to your love of little Wayne? I mean, I've had a lot of like, you know, intense obsessions with different artists. I think like Rakim was my first. Wayne was a like, I respected his lyrical, his wordplay. And like that time period in the mid 2000s when he was just making like incredible music and just mixtape after mixtape. There was a wildness and just a craziness. He was in a mental state that few people will ever understand or know. Literal flow state. But there was beauty in that. And he was unapologetic. I think everything that was coming out of his mouth for that time period was just amazing.

1:12:53Chad Hogan:Brilliant. And again, hip-hop is super diverse. there's amazing like characters within it like he's definitely like one of my top five no doubt

1:13:01Alex:yeah well chad honestly like you're um you know how much you mean to me as a friend as a as a former boss as a mentor i was never your boss no um but seriously man i um i i love you and i'm just so grateful that um you're here to be able to tell your story for a lot of people that maybe don't know about your work and for all the people that we both know that will probably listen to this and hear some of our stories. And it's just, you know, I've always looked up to you and everything that you taught me is what led me to do any of this. Genuinely, I talk about you in the studio. And so everyone here knows sort of the things that, you know, kind of like matter to me, which is culture and people and shenanigans and yeah, human relationships and yeah, the meetings and all that stuff.

1:13:55Alex:It's just like, you know, it's what we do, but it's, it's, it's the friends we make along the way. And it's like, um, yeah, like you said, design is, should be fun. It's like, we are so lucky to do this as a career and all of us out there, it's like, it's a gift, but it's like, you got to enjoy it and you got to make it your own and you got to find your path. And I don't know, man, I just, uh, I'm, you know, you're one of one and I'm so glad to introduce you to my team and like, yeah, Yeah. For you. Finally, Kevin, because I see some synergies with like your relationship with Kev, kind

1:14:26Chad Hogan:of the way we were, which I love. And, you know, there's a lot of people that like when people kind of like move on in their careers, they have a lot of hate in their heart. I've never had that. Oh, man. My love for you is real. And like, I'm so happy for everything that you're doing to me. Oh, man. Thank you. Because I know like you love what you're doing. you know and like it's it's apparent you know well i don't get here without you and it's you

1:14:52Alex:know many ways i think about this place as people's first jobs yeah and like vitamin water for me that

1:14:59Chad Hogan:was my first job that's a great that's a great way to think about it and it's like what what an

1:15:03Alex:amazing experience like again for you coming from hip-hop but for me coming from college you know i was i remember like chicken fights at the pool in palm springs and i was just like what the fuck is this place and who are these people and like what a what a fun time to be uh just yeah working as this company and then i you know we did off sites we did team trips we went skiing like we did all this kind of stuff and yeah i i again like i bring all that with me here and i'm like this is kevin's first job and has for job and pete's first job and like so many people here that like this is that place that i'm trying to build and like i often talk about like our group chat which has been still going for what 25 years now yeah it's crazy and so it's just like that's the kind of stuff that like people will move on and go on to other things but then you want them to

1:15:50Chad Hogan:oh and speaking of which okay i got one more present okay this is for kev oh man what do you got oh actually wait i have two presents yeah i can't believe you brought all these gifts this is the best first is breathe strips so i feel like if you guys want to be taken seriously in podcasting you got to rock these sometimes okay like when someone comes in if you rock one of those they're gonna respect you thank you this is um and this is for you dude so wait let me just show so this is a laser laser uh measurer so i know that you did construction stuff back in the day this tool is like a good bridge to like from a graphic designer to a three-dimensional designer it's a great tool awesome yeah and it's called the blaze like it's just cool you know i mean

1:16:36Alex:Ted came in here. That's fire. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. You're Nardwar shit, just giving us gifts, man. No, but thank you for this gift of telling your story and sort of telling the stories of your career. It's something that I'm just honored to be a part of. And thank you, man, for the time. Thank you so much. Yeah, let's hang in and grab a beer if you're still down. Yeah, let's do it.