Don’t Make it Weird with: Jordan Pories and Esteban Cardona Jiménez

29:57Yeah, we've been trying to chase it ever since. It's like, give me something like that QR code, the bouncing QR code. But yeah, that was like the North Star for us was we need to go somewhere where there's one tension. I feel like we're tension chasers. Tension. Some people chase attention. We chase the attention. Oh, bars. Bars. Bars. Boom. Yeah, because I feel like that's where the best word comes from. You got to be pushing against something, a challenger brand for a better, like a better word. just like somebody who's trying to get attention and like neither of us were crypto i was gonna ask how much did you know about crypto yeah what when did you join too because i feel like you guys kind of joined at a very interesting point in crypto in the in the saga we signed the offer letter get this thanksgiving is coming up and you leave your job at apple to go work for crypto and then literally two days later ftx goes down and coinbase was down for a day and there was a big question of what happened uh we got a note from our boss thank god who was like don't worry your jobs are safe like we're excited to have you everything's good um that was a rough thanksgiving but then we came out like a cannon again this company is is is fearless and it was like we're making we're going back on the airwaves we're getting our ceo out there and we got to work with chivo um so it's it was it was a it was hard tension it was hard yeah it was like what have we done there's there's still time to turn around we just put our two weeks in like we can still say like no way just kidding sleepless nights like yeah the stock price went so low i kept checking i was like this is this gonna go down like what what have we done people at apple like thought we were joking a lot of people didn't really and then we like were gone and they were like oh my god they weren't kidding yeah and the offer letter came in i was already planning to move to new york it might have been it for old jordan and esteban um uh because i was done with sf i went to move to New York, I was sitting in my vacant apartment.

31:56My new lease had been signed. The movers had already come and taken my things away. And I'm sitting there and I get the job offer in that night. And then I go to the airport. So it really all came down to the wire. And they're like, one Bitcoin each. Do you guys get paid in real money or do you guys get paid in crypto? What do you mean real money? What is real money? We get paid in the dollar and we're building the future. That's a very disrespectful question. Sorry, I'm disrespectful about the Bitcoin offer too. Sorry, three Bitcoins each. It's not one Bitcoin offer. Honestly, you can choose to get paid on crypto if you want.

32:30Really? Yeah. That's something that's possible. Did you make that decision or no? You said, we'll take it. Not yet. Still working out the kinks. But you can choose. So say there were someone out there listening and they're just like, this Bitcoin thing, this cryptocurrency, I still don't fully get it. You know, say there was someone out there. How do you guys explain it? layman's terms to dummies like just say someone like me out there that's like I got Bitcoin, I got my wallet and I put away my $400 in 2017. How do you sell it? Sell us on the future of crypto. I think the biggest flaw is the name cryptocurrency because that just minimizes it and the head goes immediately to very simplistically just money.

33:23But a way to understanding is a software update to financial rails. Bitcoin is just an expression of data, which is the first one, but then there's just different... It's the software update. And I'll tell you, I'll bring it down to earth. Esteban sends money to his parents in Colombia quite often. And you can send a WhatsApp in a blink of an eye. and why does it still take three to five business days to get money there and that's when you're like oh like things like venmo or like these little domestic masks it's still like they're settling it on the back end they're fronting you money right now crypto is just money that moves like a dm um and for real yeah no i think that's how it works dude i think it's funny because i remember when you guys first took jobs and then a commercial came out that you guys i don't believe were a part of but maybe it was right before like it was like yeah right before you joined yeah and i think that's probably the best explanation of crypto for someone that's like you know i always think like how does this relate to people like how do people understand it and it's just like it's a better way to send money and spend money that doesn't require you to wait three to five days or sort of like get killed with a whole bunch of fees and you know all the it corrects a lot of the things that are sort of wrong about our current currency that's been around for a long time yeah I think it's a really smart way to try to get people to understand.

34:46It's like, you don't need to know how to blockchain works. Yeah. It's just the same with the internet. You don't know what is happening, but you're like using the internet. We'll get there. But like one thing we learned, the cool thing about this is that this personally like learned so much of like, I'm like, this is, there's no way I would have gotten this deep if I wasn't working here. That is like cool to just keep learning kind of random things. but just the code running the financial global financial system is from 1959 which i'm like how how and why it's like when you go to the airport and you're in this lovely new terminal la guardia right now everything's oh i feel like i'm in the jetsons yeah and then good job you get you lean over the counter and you see what's on the screen yeah and it it is dos it is black it is green and black technology um people don't realize that money is something that needs an update.

35:40And I think, again, that's that tension. It's like, oh, we're not just selling you a new tech product you have 15 other versions of. We're selling you a completely new paradigm, which sounds very crypto to say. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to call you guys crypto boys, but you guys are the boys of crypto. But I agree with you. I'll take it one step further. It's like, I don't know how a microwave works. You know what I mean? But I know that it heats up my food fast. And so it's like, I like that part of it. And I like that I can reheat something and eat it quickly. So it's like, you can just send people money and they get it and you don't have to sort of go through the sort of banking system, which I think we all know, like, everyone has banking, like apps and different, they're all the same.

36:24And they're all pretty weirdly strange. Like they have things that we just take, you know, we just, you know, sort of have to deal with, whether it's like fees, or just like, random things where you're like, it will be there in three to five days, or, you know, pay someone and you're like it's it's in a wire and it's in this sort of ether and yeah you'll get it soon and it's but it and they charge you and so it's like all these things that are just like actually just human pain points of of money that don't have to be there adobe felt like this unmovable rock and then figma happened yeah these things happen all the time i'm not i mean it is complicated still i'm not gonna lie there's a lot of crazy things happening not gonna lie just like early days of the internet like just people which are using something for like abusing shit like you know what i mean and the system whatever but i think there's a lot of good uh and like just i don't know pain points that i've experienced personally oh how my family is still in colombia like countries where uh the currencies are not super strong compared to like the dollar forever Like inflation here is bad, but like in Argentina is like 80%.

37:35I don't know. Colombia is like double digits, like 30%. You go to the store every day, the prices are different. It's crazy. So like you can save now in like digital dollars, which is a very common thing down there, which is like your money is growing. It's like it's access to like. You're able to get the same 5 % interest rate you can get in America because the dollar is accessible because it's digital. And that's something that is just not possible without crypto. Bars. In terms of, you know, like that bad rap of like Bitcoin, crypto kind of like sort of people trying to get rich, I think is probably the biggest problem that it's like it's got that sort of reputation of like I'm trying to like it turns into stocks and gambling and sort of just like it's one step away from sort of like, you know, DraftKings.

38:29which it's not no it's i was i was reading that great book by uh the founder of frog design about um uh david lubars david lubars about uh uh his early work with steve jobs in like the pre next before johnny ive like back when it was like all this stuff is everything the computers were complicated and steve was like i have a vision but i can't get there and all this stuff reminds me of like how in early computer days the people developing the technology were so enthralled by the technology that they were really missed the point of like yeah but it's really scary and really expensive and really difficult like what's the how do you get people on this and coinbase feels like the one right now in the industry that is focused on like how can we make people almost forget the technology and just build the easy experience that you don't even think about it can we talk about some of the things you guys are doing currently and with like mba promos you guys Is it like all-star activations?

39:21You guys have a new commercial. Can you talk about some of the sort of things you're doing? I mean, playoffs happening right now. Like lots of Coinbase commercials you're going to see there. And it's, again, I think our jobs coming in as outsiders is like, how do we tell this story in terms that people would first care about and to like understand something. So nobody wants to talk about money. Nobody wants to talk about crypto. And no one likes ads. We hate watching ads on the TV. But people like pizza. Yeah. Damn right. So lean there. That's our genius idea. At the campaign. I think I want to slice the pie.

39:58Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a metaphor for money. But I think, I just watch a spot. So it starts out with someone like orders pizza, but then it gets sliced in the sort of middle, which is that great thing that people expose on TikTok where people are taking the middle out of a pizza before you even get it, which is like straight to hell. Or prison, really, actually, is what it should be. and then people take like little bites out of it and people are constantly like I think it's the idea of like if money if anything else worked like money like we wouldn't be okay with it and it's just like picturing the process of ordering a pizza and it going through like a very outdated complicated system like money does while everybody's taking a bite of your money and then you get a pizza full of bites like you really want that yeah it's a really great spot and it does have a little bit of that energy of escape from the office and some of that fast paid stuff and it's because Jordan talks so fast right That's what the general sort of vibe is.

40:49Can I slow down, dude? Yeah, we get really bored. He likes to cram a lot of words into it in a very short amount of time. That's why all of our spots are 15 seconds, but like, you know, sort of multiple, multiple sort of paragraphs. For all this shit I talk about, people like Lil Dicky, it is just like white guy raps fast. You know what I mean? All right, let's go to rapping. So Don Barron is your rap alter ego. And Jordan, you know, when I met you, you know uh i immediately uh i liked you i immediately was like this you know this is someone i want to spend time with he's very low creative smart uh sort of just has a catch just has a way about him that is like you know you could sell me anything and the way you know you get you're passionate and i love that so much and so we're working together for a while and then it comes out that you have a rap alter ego named don baron and my first thought was oh no I really don't want to listen to this.

41:47That's how everyone says that. I really, really don't want this because it's going to change everything in my - Well, and the funny thing is you didn't say that to me. No, I didn't. So how could you? I couldn't say that to you. So I fired up the old YouTubes and I put on a Don Baron music video. And you can spit, man. You're a good rapper and you bring your sort of art director kind of sensibilities and it's about money. as well. A lot of your raps are about the system, and it's got a New York energy. So talk about sort of like your side project of Don Baron for a second. Wow. Well, look, the two of us are very compelled.

42:25This is your platform, you know? Jay-Z, Drake. Yeah, that's why you came on to promote your new album. That's what I thought. Fellas, it took too long to get here. I got three Rock Nation people just at the camera that were telling me what to say. Your agent's here, yeah. Now, the two of us are very compelled by systems. I feel like I rebuilt my whole concept of what an art director is working with Esteban and kind of understanding what makes something good versus what makes something a thing. And for years, as a guy who rapped but didn't really write, it's like an artist concept. It's like a brand of like, who am I?

42:58What is the artist project? What is this? And it took a long time to figure out how to square, honestly, my Bernie Sanders voting record with gold chains and rapping about rolls royces and yet i had you know and it finally clicked with me that like maybe the character is the villain i am the enemy yeah and anti-hero it felt like a great release and um so i have a new song coming out in a couple months it's called the necessary cost of doing business damn right this rules and it's all about i i mean god seychelles types dudes you know yeah no it's really good and so i was like honestly the feeling when i watch a video and listen to I was like, it was relief.

43:37I was like, oh, God, thank God. This is actually good. And you have sort of a rapper voice in a way. You kind of have a slightly different sort of sounding tone to your voice. And it's legitimately good. And I know you're a big hip-hop fan. Streaming in all of the platforms right now. Yeah, streaming. That's bottom line. Yeah. Listen to the discretion. What's your side project? Yeah. No side projects. Nice. DJ career coming up. He's got two cats. Yeah. two cats they're pretty cute i looked at them thank you that's the kind of research sisters yeah yeah we check out your cats yeah they're the best yeah but it's a it's it's an amazing kind of thing and like i said you guys both have like really good websites check them out and uh i feel like you guys kind of like i was looking at both of them as one yours is is pretty new and it's uh it's it's got a lot of uh it's got a lot to it and it's really cool it's really well done thank you yeah you can like click and drag everything it's very interactive it's very interesting yeah it's it's it's sick so um coinbase nba why nba just out of curiosity just kind of feel like that's kind of the right audience that you guys are trying to get or is that do you have any sort of feelings of like why the nba is kind of basketball just makes sense for uh coinbase we inherited the whole team we started formed right again quite suit just before we got there and they inherited this deal that was signed uh during like the peak of the crypto bull run It's funny how these things go.

45:03And at first it was like this liability coming out of this crypto crash. Oh my goodness. Why are we on a world stage? Maybe we shouldn't be. And then we realized, oh wait, no, this is our ticket to make sure every other quarter we have a big campaign we have to make. And go figure, right? A year and a half later, now it's the perfect thing for us. Yeah. They even sponsor some of the back sort of safety boards or whatever the hell they call those things. Yeah. You guys are on the court. Yeah. And on the court. I mean, we're like Knicks partners. I think he's like NBA official crypto partner and then Knicks and Bulls.

45:37Oh, cool. Listen, the powers that be want to put crypto in court. We put crypto on the court. Like for All Star? Of course. Yeah. Adam Silver is a big crypto guy, right? That's what I've read. A lot of NBA players. Kevin Durant had a strong affiliation with Coinbase in the early days. I think it's just mainstream. like we just want it to be where people are at and just like be normal crypto is as normal as wifi be normal don't make it weird yeah don't make it weird moonshot was the thing you guys did at the all-star game talk to me about that sort of concept it's all trying to infuse some sort of benefit and it just came out from speed and just like how can we make people feel that without like preaching and the whole idea was just like can you score as far as crypto and we partnered with an amazing like spatial studio design studio they're called hovercraft they do all of the work for like nike and jordan all of those stores well they had told us we have a 40 by 40 foot space at like the uh nba they call it the crossover which is like the convention that happens during the day during the whole weekend because people go to all-star weekend they have nothing to do outside of the night events yeah um and so that's what it is and every brand shows up they do big things jordan has this big basketball court and state farm had the state farm zone and like whatever and so yeah we were like how do we a have fun and not just be a lame brand and then b still make it make sense enough to do with crypto and so this idea of um of scoring as fast as crypto and uh this concept of of space and going out of this world and like moon and all that language kind of came together in this great kind of quasi video game and we did a lot of like nft type on chain stuff without people realizing they were doing it like we're just trying to enable like you just use crypto like and it wasn't scary or hard like hundreds of people minted nfts to unlock their merch and they had no idea that it was nfts and i thought that was pretty cool before we get you guys out here because it's been great and uh we got to talk about one of the most pressing issues of this year and this time.

47:55And we almost talked about it last year or last week. Last year. Wow. We actually have been talking about it since last year. Yeah. So and that is Mark Zuckerberg. Mark Zuckerberg is someone that we this show is used to be our avatar on Instagram. That's right. We just he gets into wild and crazy things like he's constantly doing side quests. He's constantly like out here being Zuck. Yeah. He's just sucking it up all over the place. And so we, we find it endlessly funny. We always kind of make fun of him. Remember he put like all the sort of sunscreen on his nose. He's just being safe. He's just being Zuck out there.

48:35And, uh, I think the latest Zuck incarnation is possibly my most, uh, intriguing to me, which is he's known as a guy that dresses in a uniform. He only wears sort of sort of gray sweatshirts and blue shirts. And most recently, he's been looking buff because he's been doing UFC training, and he also seems to have gotten a stylist. Yeah, UCLA jacket. Yeah. More than a stylist. Yeah, he's got... You think he's got a squad? I think it's one of the most excellent CEO... Okay, founders are in, right? Yes. Founders are in. we're seeing all these founder-driven companies with strong or strong CEO persona leaders.

49:23And that is often driving, like the whole stock market is being propped up by like seven stocks in those companies, maybe aside from Apple, has a very strong public personality at the top. And with Zuck, right, he was losing on a lot of fronts. The meta thing did not work. The headset thing, it was just not as great as the Vision Pro. And the AI thing, he didn't get the jump on but what he did get the jump on is becoming the cool guy fits ceo pr 101 it was amazing and they've been trying to make him likable for so long they're like look at him normal yeah he just just be normal he's doing little selfie videos holding the lavalier mic yeah he's on the couch yeah i think muscles helped like 100 yeah yeah working out and yeah yeah because it's like he was remember he was barbecuing and he was like i'm normal i eat meat and we're just like okay dude like yeah smoking meats like it just it just wasn't clicking but little chain big shirt cool guy era suck i think this is working i'm with you jordan like i think this is the path it's just like stylist get him some oversized shirts get him some cool looking pants get him a cool jacket i also feel like he lay low for a bit and then elon came in and he's insane and then you just have a villain and then all of a sudden he can come out being like you see i wasn't that bad honestly threads no one talks about it but like threads which no one uses anymore too threads did it when threads came out oh he was the normal guy yeah for like three weeks we were all threading we were threadheads remember kevin yeah yeah you were yeah big time and i haven't even looked at it since but uh no you're right it's it's partly because he's like, you know, the bar's so low that like Bezos and Musk are like, those guys just are going to do weird and terrible things that no one can relate to.

51:16And just they're going to wear cowboy hats and like try to get to the moon. The worst. Zuck wearing a Sherling coat and going to a UFC fight. We're like, that's our guy. Yeah. Like, and the other thing, which maybe I can't tell how much of this is being yourself versus being this crafted image they come up. But it gives this vibe of he's finally like, yeah, I got these macadamia trees for my cows. Like these are, I'm not trying to fit into other people's interests. These are my interests. Yeah. And I'm really, really rich. That honestly, but like you can, his whole, your whole posture changes when you start.

51:47He's like, no, it's scared anymore or something. Yeah. He's like, he can blink now. And I'll say this is maybe we were talking about our breakthrough way back then is, is when we decided to, to, to make the work that feels like us versus feels like what our creative director wants. that changed everything. And I think, I think Mark took that lesson from us. That's the best advice though for creatives is like do the stuff that you actually want to do and do stuff that you would be excited by. Because people get excited around it. It'll be better than anything else you do and like people will realize you have a style you didn't even know you had.

52:17That's right. But I think the beard too, like he didn't even come up with that beard. Someone gave that beard to him and like people are saying he looks hot. People are saying they suck Fox. That's what they're saying. He looks good. I believe it. Yeah. But then he replied on Instagram stories. He just posted like a Gillette, like a razor. Yeah. Answering to that meme. He's like, his team is so good. Yeah. He's becoming self-aware. I wonder if someone on the team who wanted him to do that. He's getting so good if they just snuck that on the internet to try and sell that. I have a sneaking suspicion that he is not able to grow a beard.

52:52I can relate. I don't think I can. There's nothing wrong with it. I wish he could. He'd look great. He would look better, clearly. It's been proven. I'm sneaking Rick Ross into the conversation. Rick Ross dropped last night the music video to his diss track against Drake, Champagne Moments. And you get a lot of very crispy shots of his face. And he's using the treatments. That is not real beard. Yeah, that beard is fucking manicured. That beard is printed on his face. And I swear Zuck could do the same thing. That's an AI beard. Zuck could definitely buy the best beard ever. He could buy a good beard.

53:24Yeah, I wanted to be a fly on the wall where someone was like, okay, Zuck, we got a way to rehab your image. I know you've been kind of struggling and this, and we're thinking, Sherling jacket, little chain, and just grow out the hair a little bit. And he's like, let's do it. And it's honestly, fits. Get fits off, and people will respect you. You guys are fitsmen and also tech guys. So I think this is the way. Is the new swaggy tech guy? Is that a thing? Because I have heard that people in Silicon Valley now are like getting in on the sort of like they're all training. It's trying to be both like, you know, sort of smart, successful, rich and also buff.

54:05So Zuck is trendsetting. Coming on here was a devastating move for my dating life. This is dangerous. But it's thrilling. I can't wait to see what he does next. Honestly, like I don't know like where it goes from here. But I think it's working for him. Make a product, buddy. I don't know. I got a related question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to call you guys tech guys. I don't think you guys are tech guys. Thank you. Tech bros, tech bros. Oh, no. No, no, no. You guys have been around the tech bros and SF, and I've heard the culture there is a little bit washed. Okay. My question is that, do you think the recent downfall of Allbirds is due to the recent tech layoffs that have been going on throughout the industry?

54:45This is a hard-hitting question. Do you think they correlate? I think the rise of Allbirds was not because they had a huge customer base, but because their customer base was the VCs. All the VCs invested because they were like, I love these shoes. And I think that's a big lesson in tech is are you pleasing regular, normal people or are you pleasing the powerful people in your circle? So a lot of Allbirds at Apple? Yeah. I don't remember. I think they just went down when Zuck also got hot and he's like, okay, looking good is important. where they're like, dishes are actually ugly. You can be comfortable and look good at the same time.

55:19You don't have to just wear pajamas outside. Yeah. Kevin, I just got to the end of your document. The best question it says, are we feeling bullish on Bored Apes? Are we? I don't know. I feel like they're poised to make a comeback. You buy them low, so on, right? Should we hold on our Bored Apes? No comment. How are we feeling about NFTs? Is that part of the crypto sort of like, you know, we got to try to distance ourselves? I think I'm bullish. I think it's it's it comes back to its first thing was like yeah jpegs or whatever but now it's like it's the thing behind it like I think they're gonna come back into like give you access to things like your rewards in your stores are gonna be there your tickets your concert is gonna be technically an nft your boarding pass etc like yeah I feel like it's just it's gonna come back in a different shape or form it's we're right on the verge of someone building a great if you're an artist especially like a burgeoning indie artist and and uh suppose you want to really identify who your super fans are the people who are first in line to buy every ticket or buying one of each of your there's no way to track that information all this is is nft is just putting an object and information together um it's the ultimate way to manage a fan base and the fans again people like us we shouldn't be saying the phrase nft it should just be how travis is giving me the special insider code to get the merch before the general public do because i'm a super fan that That was always the coolest part about it.

56:40Travis Scott. No, it was always about sort of the fan club part or the community part. And Liquid Death does this really well. They have like a sort of NFT-like community. Death hits. They get like insider-inclusive deals and stuff like that. Like that part was always cool. For me, the Bored Ape part was always the part that was like, this part feels really not cool. And I'm looking at the cheapest Ape you can get right now is$44 ,000. I'm in. So, Kevin, you and I split it. I mean, I do think it is good that we are past the point in the crypto wave that all the pumping up shit's done. All the posers are kind of gone.

57:15It's kind of real now. There's actually practical uses for this technology. That's good to shine a light on instead of fucking bored apes and all that shit. Yeah, I think that's what's hard. It's just like that's the baggage that comes with those two words, crypto and NFTs. That's tension. You guys are tension seekers. I tell people at work that, again, if I can be on a date with someone and say I work in crypto and it's not a red flag, that's how we know we do our job. That's progress. You ever just say, I work in finance? Sometimes it's even worse. Oh. I work in digital finance. I say, I'm unemployed.

57:56What do you have going on? The only thing worse you could say is, I'm a podcaster. Yeah. Should that be the show? Wow. Thank you guys so much for coming in. you're amazing such fans of both of you guys and long overdue time flu but thank you guys do you want to plug something? do you want to say like watch our videos coinbase.com new album coming soon if you're in New York City and you're listening to this we're doing something in Washington Square on Bitcoin Pizza Day and I'm not going to say another word about it but I know two things like on May 22nd yeah so this will be out before then May 22nd and then June 1st Coinbase Pizza Month in New York also ordering pizza ordering pizza on Slice on the Slice app just get the Slice app it's the New York's best pizza delivery app and that's all we'll say it's the pizza cafe you might win something yeah there's prizes that's all you guys are you guys figured this out you're like how do we get people to care about crypto you're like we're trying pizza pizza I mean listen it's undeniable but no seriously thank you guys for coming on appreciate you we got in the rap beef uh drake kendrick ai snoop dog you know what are we uh who do we got i think i think in i think in a few years we're gonna look at drake in a very different way than we do now and i think he's had it coming for a very long time whoa don baron coming soon

59:26investment advisors have different agendas have money in real estate in stock Who got hurt? Everybody got hurt. Everybody won. Who invested in anything. Today, big time damage control for Latrell Sprewell.

59:54What do you like about gambling? Well, winning. People talk about you just like the action. No, I like the money, actually. Former NFL superstar has filed for bankruptcy. I lost$20 million to a corrupt financial advisor. Pull the lever and the price move. You better put yourself inside the right room. Caviar, cream cheese, non-grain toast. My lawyers got your lawyers on ropes. I got the marble in the foyer plus a bit on a boat. Gotta swim till you sink or you float. A little bit of mink on my shoulder. You look at it and you blink, and you're older Trenches get dug for my soldiers Linens on sofas, champagne flutes and roadsters No litigation for the month of October Black Cadillac with the chauffeur Racks in the back behind the frozen floor Listen when I'm coaching you, decisions being made Overswayed, unapproachable Why you think you're wearing the suits?

1:00:50Bank statements don't account for IOUs I was involved in a lot of real estate projects The banks went really hard after the money Seven or eight banks that we had loans with And it just went bad My name is on the back Or the bottom of the poster Rock the cloak, all the boat, off the coast Check the clock, hit the spliff, eat the roast on the sofa Mahogany imported from my goal here Modern mid-century, Subaru legacy I heard a rumor that your droolah lacks integrity Long money ain't always longevity There was debt run up by a family member One line of emails, associates filling in the details, family fed, the trust free will.

1:01:31$75 ,000 loan, yes, it's$575 ,000. $500 ,000 MSL. One line of emails, associates filling in the details, family fed, the trust free will. Did we tell you what the interest rate was on the loan? It was 85%. 85%. 85%, yeah. One line of emails, associates filling in the details, family fed, the trust free will.

1:01:59How many times do you think you've lost a million dollars in a single day? At least ten. At least ten.

1:02:17It's the beginning of a financial nightmare.

1:02:23Thank you.