FREAKISHLY STURDY STOCK: with Thomas Pokorn

25:42Thomas Pokorn:This dude knows every single word. Yeah, every word. Yeah. And he can put them together. Just be glad you don't have to read. Esther Povitsky, she's a comedian. She has a bit where she's like, why do all guys know who directed all the movies? It's so true. It's like, you know every director who directed every movie. Absolutely not. I'm also just like Western cinema. There's so many. Oh, just Western cinema. So many cross Asian, Southeast Asian, Indian cinema films that I just have no idea. African cinema, Nollywood, Nigerian movies, crazy. Yeah. I also realized another place where I spend time that I bet you don't, which is American cinema of Bravo reality television, Housewives.

26:22And I imagine you don't dabble. I tried, you know. Really? I try it just really it doesn't stick I just too American I'm so annoying that when people watch it and they were like Thomas you want to come around and hang out but I'm like I feel so stupid because then I'm like who don't we like like what is their dynamic and I'm asking questions and everyone's like yeah what did a man do to Sierra he's ruining the whole fun like he takes it too seriously he's thinking about it yeah you can't that's the thing about reality you can't think about it

26:58that's uh i'm breaking the internet

27:05all that's gone

27:09Thomas Pokorn:sorry about that we were experiencing some technical difficulties now we're going to jump back into the episode do you want me to go back no that's also something like uh very engaging in filmmaking is uh having your viewpoint changed and like the camera angles flip this is the best worst pod we've ever done happy to be here this is thomas's big moment and we blew it yeah thank god i already got my we're back listen it's a good thing it happened now we're we're gonna get uh maybe two more sd cards for next week okay good yeah yeah yeah just for our big time guest next week that isn't thomas yeah i mean no offense to thomas we want thomas pocorn yeah is that how you pronounce it pocorn you you got guests bigger than me not in size not in size i would love to meet king kong personally all right well that none of that's going in but so kevin welcome to the show uh yeah well sorry sorry about the technical difficulties guys yeah you're you're the guest on the show today kevin how do you feel uh i feel all right okay good excellent uh i don't really like being in the middle to be honest with you i think uh Do you want to switch back?

28:17Thomas Pokorn:No, we can't switch back. We can't switch back. Oh, yeah, continuity-wise. Okay. It would be a mess. You know that from filmmaking, of course. It would be fun, though, if I kept, like, between edits, like, kept moving around. Yeah, you got any notes for us on our show? Any questions? You're a famous interviewer. Pay me. I'm kidding. Yeah, how could we get better, Thomas? What would you suggest, outside of maybe having the guest not have to go back and forth like they're at a tennis match? I think you're doing a great job, honestly. It's like the one thing that I noticed, but I will also say I'm not a huge podcast guy because I can't listen to them while working.

28:52If I get the time off. Yeah, that's true. He doesn't have enough time. He's got to watch 15 films a week. But that's also how I make time or listen to music. I can't listen to podcasts because I can't have them on while working, and then I just end up listening to music, and so I save time for that. When you go on your crazy long bike rides, all music? Pretty much all music. That's one of the things I love about biking. You don't mess around with your phone that much. Then you just listen to a whole album through because you're not like, oh, I don't like this song. I really like, I put three, four albums together and then I'm like, we'll listen to that all the way through.

29:21Absolutely. Come with me. Absolutely.

29:23Thomas Pokorn:Wait, so when you're copywriting, you know all these languages, do you ever get your wires crossed? Not really because before I came to, before coming to America, I was already, I was already working in English a lot because like agencies got wind that I spoke English fluently because while I do have the accent, I always say you don't hear the accent. Yeah. it's only when you say certain words that you really hear it do you have an American accent? I like to think so but it is very noticeable I think it's going to become milder as I live here more but I think in presentations I try to make it less noticeable really?

30:02Thomas Pokorn:just embrace who you are I do that but I think in the interest of being understood I do like to pronounce things differently so that I know that an American ear would understand like a name from a different country or language that I would know how to pronounce correctly. I do try to put an American inflection on it. Oh, yeah. Do you have an American – can you do an impression of an American? Well, I'm not sure for the listeners. It's sad. Excuse me? That's your American impersonation? It's not an American impersonation. It's really more of a Matthew McConaughey impersonation that I'm working on.

30:35Thomas Pokorn:Is that – you're working on it? Yeah, yeah. Yes, sir. It's pretty good, yeah. It's decent. You can use a little bit more work. Yeah, that actually – the last part wasn't bad. with all impersonations it takes a little while to get in there but i'm fascinated by language i i could speak more believably american but i don't really want to also i think like having an accent is charming and also what am i going to pretend that i'm from from iowa and i'm bored and bred here when i'm clearly not also again it makes your strategy sound smarter yeah that's another thing like if i can't be british then i already got to provide one other accent yeah Sometimes I'm saying the same exact thing as Thomas and everyone's like, shut the fuck up, Kevin.

31:15Thomas Pokorn:And then Thomas comes and says it and word is bond. It's also because I'm yelling at him with a German accent and everybody gets scared. It's just intimidation. It's a combination of strategic thinking and intimidation that you really deploy on these clients. You know what? We appreciate that. I really live by what Batman told me in Batman Begins. fear and intimidation are powerful tools wow beautiful beautiful i mean he's a big batman guy he is a big batman i'm a big favorite batman my favorite batman so christian bale still i will say robert pattinson fantastic actor i loved his batman and my childhood batman was uh val kilmer one of my favorite actor for whatever reason as a child i love val kilmer's over his entire career i read his poetry collection to get more words very sad for me when he passed um sad truly great actor um but yeah i would say christian bale fantastic batman did a good bruce wayne he got the american psycho training as uh playing bruce wayne as an asshole right i will also say that like for the other batman i think ben affleck was the first great bruce wayne predominantly didn't love his batman because when the fuck was he batman batman versus superman and justice league wow by zach snyder and joss whedon respectively i didn't even know much maligned movies but i did enjoy his um people didn't like his batman if i remember yeah but i really liked his uh his bruce wayne i felt he was like the the cartoon tv show from like the early 90s that i grew up with yeah and i really loved the animation there and he was a great because handsome handsome you know extremely handsome and i believed him to be a rich douchebag playboy that's right yeah but also ben affleck can play that all day long and i also want to go on record now that i have a mic in front on me ben affleck underrated director and actor but the greatest cultural gift that ben affleck has given us is all these pictures of him dead inside smoking being hounded by the paparazzi and i love him being being this real he is one of us he's one of us he's all of us his dragon back tattoo have you seen that yeah of course beautiful yeah it is it is said when great talents like him get reduced down to memes and it's like that's got to drive him a little crazy to imagine that he is truly one of our great actors and directors and a genius that's every so rich you probably didn't give a fuck i don't know i feel like if your legacy people forget that he like is a harvard genius that is he a harvard genius is that true yes harvard certified yeah i had no idea that could you say there was a clip that went around recently about him talking about ai and it was brilliant he was uh he had some really great points that i don't remember but He's very astute and very smart, but I believe he likes fun.

34:02Otherwise, he wouldn't be like if he was afraid of being a meme or ridiculous. I don't think he would be doing the Dunkin Donuts ads the way he's doing them. That's true. That's a good point. Those ads are terrible. Yeah, I think he's just embracing a double life almost as like I think in his actual work, he's very intentional, serious and professional. And I think he just likes to have goofy, dumb fun with his friends and enjoys getting to make stuff. He seems like a good hang. That's very true. I would love to get Duncan with Ben Affleck. Yeah. Dream client. Dream client. Oh, my God. You got me on the spot.

34:33I usually, like, I really enjoy working with clients that come up to me. And I've never had, like, a dream client scenario where I thought I could attain it either. Not being in America for so long. So, you're just looking at things from the outside in, kind of. Dream client is an excellent question. We only ask excellent questions here on the spot. I see that. uh coca-cola and undo all of alex center's work thanks man thank you thank you this is my diplomatic answer until i have the real one i try to focus on the stuff that i'm working on to really make that the greatest possible because i believe that there's already like saturated brands and i think my dream client would be something that i've never thought about or considered because that would be more interesting because there's already like i see that a lot with young people in the creative industry like everybody wants to work for the nikes their apples and all those big brands but i think the real juice is in stuff that's under undervalued underutilized and less present and that's also where you can do the most way brand can benefit the things the most and that's not a very fun or sexy or controversial answer but i really enjoy like giving things the shine that don't exist yet or that uh that people have don't didn't hear about yet wow that's

35:49Thomas Pokorn:beautiful that is really poetic you got a favorite line you've ever written a favorite line also that like it's it's really wild like when i'm done with a project i am on to the next one and it kind of like just passes me by but i wrote a couple lines for a gin brand from austria they were like predominantly german where i really believe i went in hard and really like proved to myself like how to where to take this craft like getting a tone in german like any tone of voice into the german language is also very difficult so i've like i think i really went hard with that i also like i like that when you're talking to people about your work i do get different resonance or projects like with the with ao like the sandwich will never be the same really struck a hit with so many people but you know i just i look at these things like maybe that's also why i don't want to really watch sports like that i look at creative work like an athlete i generally like when i started i wanted to to have this craft down pad so that you could just be like thomas give me a line and i could be like perform in the quickest amount of time and that's why i also like i don't really i'm happy to have done these projects and i remember them fondly but i try to just move on to the next thing to keep proving myself still weirdly because you're hungry i'm still hungry like i so hungry i keep training i keep performing i take everything seriously because also like when i started i just needed the work so every project i want to be one that i can take in my portfolio and feel proud of his favorite lines his next line that's true that's so thomas banger how'd you come up with that i don't know just came to me yeah of all the agencies you've worked with, Portorosha Instruments Center, Maythought, Bass Design, High Tide, Codo, Fundamentico, Human Special Studios, Zane Urbane, After Hours.

37:41Which one would you say is your favorite?

37:43Thomas Pokorn:Oh my God. Center, obviously. That's what I thought. It's so easy. See, it's so easy. Who have you done the most work with out of all those? Curious. I think it might be a tie at this point. I work with you guys a lot. Did you? That is true. Yeah, ever since we met. That's what brings me here. Also, shout out on the pod, Alex Center really reaching out to me from the ether through email of just randomly taking a call with this gangly Austrian. Well, technically you emailed us. Yeah, but like a year and then it was crickets. Yeah. Like a year before. Thomas came and did a lecture for my students and he told the story that he actually showed that he reached out to the center and then I reached back out a year and a half later.

38:24Which is a great move. It is a great move. But listen, you know, I mean, I think the students need to see that. I wanted to tell it to the stories and it wasn't like a nag or a diss. It was more like, I think especially in this day and age, I think like it's harder than ever for new people coming into the industry too. And I want them to know because like I'm up here giving a lecture, but I also like just got here to America. So it's like, what do I know? And I want them to show like, send the email to people that you admire. You might not get a response immediately, but down the line something might happen.

38:58You never know. And I honestly don't remember like when you originally sent the email, like seeing your site, like I probably didn't ever saw the email if I'm being completely honest with you. And not to say that's like a braggadocious type thing. It's just like the second I saw your website and you, you have a great website now. Uh, but your website before this one was just words and it would just type them out and then it would delete and type them out and delete. And it was just like this really fun thing. yeah but no work no work but just words and it was like thomas specializes in words and thoughts or whatever and then it was like we'll pay we'll you know pay pay for ideas and stuff like that like it was and it just i sat there and i watched it for like a couple of minutes i was like i like this guy i don't i've never met him but i like him you were inside my mind no i liked it and it and then we met uh over zoom i believe and i was like oh i like the cut of this guy's jib that's exactly what you said that's exactly it was very flattering because i love that phrase It's a great phrase, and to be honest, I don't use it about everyone.

39:53Thomas Pokorn:What the hell is a jib? I think it's a vest. Is it a vest? I think it's a type of vest where that would be like the jib, and that's why you like the cut of it. Classic word guy. But I might be completely off base. The cut of someone's jib is an idiom meaning you approve a person's general appearance, manner, style, or personality. Rooted in the 17th century Royal Navy, a ship's jib is a triangular sail at the front. so it's the front gotcha i'm not a sailor like that it's a compliment in this game that you find someone's appealing trustworthy they like the overall vibe wow i saw you across from the zoom and i like yeah we like this vibe yeah and it's true and it's true and uh me and kevin really dig you if you want to be on the podcast yeah we liked we liked your vibe uh yeah we worked together i think it was a the first thing we did together it was the first thing we did together and i Genuinely, like, anybody that I work with that affords me this much trust, too, because I would really, like, I met you and then we were like, yeah, cool, kick off with the client is next week.

40:56And there I was, like, on my first project with you guys and talking to Molly Baas and her business partner, David. And it was a trip. But, like, anytime somebody puts you up like that, I also take it, like, dead seriously and perform as a professional, first and foremost. And it's kind of, like, off the clock when the client's not listening. That's when we can have some fun again. But I will be super professional. That's the thing about Thomas. He's a real professional. Oh, yeah. I'm a consummate professional. I'm like the guy, the lawyer in Arrested Development who hides behind the couch when he's told to just like in the interest of servicing his client.

41:30A thing about Thomas also I immediately recognized. It was like Thomas also likes to talk and also gets very excited about things. Something that I prod myself in. I was like, oh, man, both of us on calls together is going to be a challenge for the third person. Two jibs. Two jibs. Cut the same way. Yeah, we have similar jibs in that manner. But yeah, no, it's good. It's worked out well, and we've done a number of projects together. But yeah, AO was the first one and threw you right in, and the rest is history. The new website is great. Who did the design and who did the development and all that?

42:02Oh, my friend, development happened and design happened by my friend Elias. Shout out Elias in Austria. We used to be in a studio together, and he's a great guy, fantastic designer, and had the idea and I just needed a website coming to America. And I was like, I might probably get more work in my name out there if I had a website that people could actually see some work on. I've heard that's a thing that people have. And he designed it all together. It took a long time because it took me a long time for the first website ever to put together all the case studies and all the effort necessary because I also had so much work still in German.

42:39And I was like, I can't translate it. So I really had to go back to the drawing board and do the projects kind of like a new, but in English. Otherwise, the thinking wouldn't be right to show that off and had to create new assets. And then I wrote all the case studies. God knows nobody reads the stuff, especially not on a strategist copywriter portfolio. But it was important to me that they work for me. So I had all the infos written up and then I wrote all of them again because I was like, they're not really doing a great service of showing my personality. It was just kind of like project descriptions.

43:11And I wanted them to also be a little fun to read and give more sense of like the ideas behind the project. You mentioned this to my students, but I think it's super true. It's like you try to be very useful in the your work is meant to set the table for great design work. And I feel like a lot of strategists obviously care deeply about words and positioning, all that stuff. But like, I feel like a lot of times in my experience, it doesn't always translate or it's not always the easiest to translate immediately to great design work. And I feel like that's the point. And I feel like that's something if, uh, you know, again, thinking about what you do and how well you do it, it's like, how do we take what you do and then make something visually?

43:52And I think your website shows like you have worked with great brands, but you've also led your work has led to great design, which is ultimately what I think people are hiring you for. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Like, again, I love design and working on great brands or, like, building brands. And it's really, like, it also comes from, like, starting to be a freelancer and not knowing, like, how to form or shape a career on its own. And I figured, like, if I'm just useful and do things and try to be productive and help out wherever I see something, say something kind of way that I would find my way into a career or, like, be known for at least, like, If I can't be the best one, at least I will be the most useful one.

44:36I never wanted to. I didn't think of myself as talented, but I thought I could just put in the hours and then at least be consistent and good at that. And that still drives me that also coming up copywriting, I was given so many decks or strategies. And here's our tone of voice. And it's three words. And it's so meaningless a lot of the time. It frustrated me too. Human. Approachable. Bold. Bold, yeah.

45:03Thomas Pokorn:Human's got to be the worst thing, the worst descriptor of a brand that you could ever write. Yeah. In my opinion. I would for once love a brand that's like, we want to be robotic, we want to be monotonous, we want to be savvy. There's a client of ours that I'm not going to talk about that actually had some good tone of voice work because he wanted his brand to be very robotic, but we shall not name him anymore. But you're right. In terms of tone of voice and strategy, like what do most people get wrong or like what what are the most cliche things because obviously like you talk about like sort of tone of voice like everyone kind of feels like wants to be the kind of same like approachable and bold but you know human like what yeah inclusive what are other like cliches of of brand strategy it's really like the bold and different and humorous because like a lot of brands want to be funny and then they get scared of like seeing something like even go teetering on fun i think that's like one where like we're funny we're witty like you want to be likable so bad but then you're afraid of what that should brands be funny maybe they don't need to be if you can pull it off everyone wants to be liquid death until it's time to do liquid death things that's exactly everyone has them as the reference and then you say you make a joke and they're like whoa yeah i don't know if we could say that yeah you're right everyone wants to be disruptive and then you have to do disruptive things that disrupt people and it's it makes people uncomfortable yeah it uh it takes a lot of energy to be disruptive all the time but that's what people want to be that's what we that's they want to but they also they are also afraid of who they might become being disruptive and how they will be perceived because everybody wants to be liked as a brand that's the thing but you can't like and that's like a cliche too that like everybody wants to be liked but how to get there is unique for every brand and i think that's where a lot of cliches come from that people are afraid to develop that point of view and really express something in that and it doesn't have to be like an outright negative or edgy one but i think a lot of time brands are afraid of really intentionally being different and would rather play it safe and i understand it because if you have a huge budget and like all the the marketing money kind of you're responsible for.

47:21You don't want to do a bad job. You don't want to do anything that will rock the boat too hard. But the whole ballgame of branding and advertising, correct me if I'm wrong, is to find and create these points of differentiation so they also lead to value creation. I'm on your website right now.

47:36Thomas Pokorn:You still have the sort of word scroll thing. Yeah, I wanted to carry it over. I didn't realize that it was still there. It just said, you say tomato, I say I'm Thomas. That's good. That's good. We got a joker. Thank you. That's the kind of stuff that gets me. When I told some friends that I'm finally working on an actual website, they were like, no, put the three-minute-long self-writing website there. No, that's the best. I'm glad it's still there. Yeah, and I also have the window to be able to edit it and adjust it as I go. I sometimes add stuff for the whimsy of it. New things added all the time.

48:11Really? You update your website with new? At least the dumb lines, yeah. I can do that. Wow. Just if I have a thought, I'm putting new lines in there, changing the order a little, just to mess with people. I love an Easter egg. I also have an underrated feature. I like to think so. The call-a-phone or the info on exactly a breakdown of who worked on this website. A thank you to friends and family on the whole thing. Where's that? Bottom right. What is it there? It's just a call-a-phone. All the information on the website and who helped me with the original idea. and there's also the black metal logo that the Lord of the Logos drew for me.

48:48Who's the Lord of the Logos? Christoph Speidel, a Belgian man. And a friend had it made because this guy really does all the metal head logos that you see. He draws them by hand. Nice. And he does all the band merch and I was talking to a friend about him way back when in Austria. And for my birthday, he had him just write my name out. Damn. The craziest time. Does it have a shirt now? Yeah. There's also a shirt with that.

49:11Thomas Pokorn:Yeah, it's very nice. Yeah, why? Why are you making merch, Thomas? Why are you trying to crouch on our territory? We're the only creatives that can make merch around here. Hey, listen, man. Actual Source has got the game locked down for all of us. Never heard of them. Actual Source? We can only aspire to. No, I had the website for the first time, and then I just had these ideas just kicking around in my head for a long time. I love a logo flip and a dumb idea. And I made, like, for fun when my brother was in Austria with his kids, I always made like, or a couple times made like family merch t-shirts because Austrians or Europeans don't really have like family reunion t-shirts.

49:48So I made ones with like popcorn packaging or like logo flips from Formula One riders. And then I was like, let me make some shirts for myself and give them away to like friends and fam that respond on the interwebs. Because essentially everybody's a walking billboard for me now with the domain in the back.

50:04Thomas Pokorn:I put that shit on. Gotta put that shit on. Represent for the humble, humble freelancer, the immigrant from Austria. he needs the support he does yeah but you're doing well out here thomas i'm uh yeah no how many uh years have you been uh in new york two and a half years we're coming up on year three i mean for two and a half years dude you you've covered a lot of ground in a short amount of time that's i genuinely felt like i needed to catch up because like americans know prestigious universities or have a network or people that they went to school with or have a you don't need any of that also a track record like i came here i had no credit score i had no social security you don't need one of those either you're fine no idea how healthcare works or if it exists still um taxes all those things were a mystery to me and it just felt like i had to catch up and uh just took every opportunity that came my way what's the dumbest thing that you think we do as americans uh you know that you see damn i'm gonna get deported after this one i mean taxes has got to be up there you know you know what the what i find the most frustrating driving in america yeah because like i was so surprised if for example in austria and germany granted things are already like in a more orderly fashion i think the most frustrating things is generally the way you guys drive where you have all the space and all the road in the world and yet you guys are like double parked getting out at odd hours not using turn signals on the freeway, being in whatever lane suits you versus going fast the further left you go, otherwise sticking right, letting other people pass.

51:41That's really where I think the American individualism gets to shine on the road out there. Yeah, it's tough out there.

51:47Thomas Pokorn:It's not good. It's bizarre. I agree with you. I agree. Because I never understood the concept of road rage until I saw how Americans drive. And I was like, I don't partake myself, but I understand it though. 100 % agree. I see it. Kevin agrees. 100 % agree. Kevin gets out there. Remember Kevin you got into a fight with some guy? I didn't get in a fight he punched me in the face. When I'm on a bicycle the thing that I say the most is turn signals. Well you fucking bikers out there and you guys just going a million miles per hour not paying attention. I stay on my lane and I keep my head on a swivel always watching always looking for other people.

52:26I've saved many a square lives. I've never crashed into anybody only had solo crashes. I look out for the little guy, but American car drivers, different beast. I'm not going to go against the bikers because I know I'm outnumbered here. I know. I had that thought during lunch. I was like, I can try to talk biking, but I know that I'm only going to get... What happened?

52:51Thomas Pokorn:We got another right air. Jesus Christ. We're going to have to do part two with Thomas. I think it's fine. This never happens, Thomas. It's true. This does not happen. You say that now. Are we recording now or no? Thomas broke our podcast. It's hard to say if we are or not. Classic Thomas. The numbers are going up, but I have an error message. It's because the shit I spit is too heavy. Damn. It's too heavy. That's barge, dude. If only we had a way to record this. I know. We should break out our new... Okay, all right. We're going. We're going. We could. I mean... Yeah. We're going, but we should.

53:30I think it's a new format. I feel like you sitting in this seat has thrown everything off. Maybe. It's really thrown me for a loop.

53:36Thomas Pokorn:I don't know. I feel like I'm interviewing you, Kevin. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I've been having little issues with this SD card. I didn't think it would be a thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the only other time we've had a really bad technical error was when I forgot to push record one time. That's fair. Was that the first pod? No. No. So in the five years of doing this podcast, you would think we would have fucked up and not recorded and things are broken way more than they actually have. We've been pretty good. We have a decent track record. That's always my fear. I used to have a college public radio show for three years and it was also available as podcast.

54:18Wow. Where can we find it?

54:21Thomas Pokorn:It's not in English, I imagine. It's not in English. It was two hours every Friday, 2.30 to 10.30. What would you do? Would you just talk? I would just talk about music. It was really like talking about music that I fucked with. A lot of experimental music. I prepared shows. I was really like preparing an artist's oeuvre or having a – yeah, so you see me dropping the words in American pronunciation. So you'd talk and play music? Yeah. It was like a classic radio show playing music, really weird shit, like free jazz, drone metal, just stuff that I was interested in and trying to find out more about these artists and kind of like trying to understand the music and why it worked.

54:59I like confrontational art and also had like very pop shows where it was like just essentially like a playlist and play like fun, weird music for two hours. Do you have a different radio voice? Do you do a one-on-one? I tried and it's so embarrassing because everybody hates to listen to their own voice. Yeah. And I tried because I'm just out here. Imagine me doing the radio show. I'm like 18, so I'm like, and on today's show. That's pretty good. I love the American vocal fry, too. That's one of the weird things that I think about America. So many people talk with a vocal fry. Yeah.

55:31Thomas Pokorn:Yeah, it's so true, Thomas. That's good. That's your best American impression I've heard. I know. I just don't want to do it. It's so weird. That's great, dude. Yeah. Yeah, and I think the design could be a little bit more intriguing in certain parts. Yes, yes. It's really an indictment that you guys feel that this is more American if I talk like this. Yeah, wow. I didn't know you had it in you, Thomas. Now consider me impressed. That's good. I hide it well. A graphic designer doing a design review is excellent. That's a great impersonation. thank you so much that's great that's really really good that was really good yeah you ever do stand-up i did and do like uh for a while there because i think stand-up is like such a difficult and tricky art form because versus music you're really you're out there on your own with nothing but your your voice your thoughts and your jokes that really got a land so i did it like uh once a year five minutes new material every time did it a couple times okay what language in english in english here here yeah i was sick i did it like in in austria and uh two times in in berlin when i was visiting a friend and like signed up for open mic nights because there's usually like regulars that go to these places and they only have so many slots but i tried to do it once a year for the absolute exhaustion and fear that puts in you you got a tight five i got a tight five that's what i was also like i'm not gonna do this professionally but i wanted to like the great craftsmen, like hone the five and like new five every time.

57:11Thomas Pokorn:That's sick. New five every time? New five every time. Yeah, throw out the old and the new bits. Yeah, that's part of the challenge. This is something on my bucket list of things I really want to do. I want to drop in and try to do it without my graphic design slides. You know, just do, yeah, stand up microphone. I don't know. I got some material. None of it's good, but you know. Oh, I believe it. It's in my notes app. that's the thing like you really only see how good any of the material is until you're on stage like performing it because there's stuff like the jokes that i thought were going to be hilarious really just don't pan out and stuff that i think is just a throwaway is just like killing it all of a sudden so that's why i also kept doing like new five because i was so interested in like i have no idea at this point kind of like what will work and that's when i also understood that's why professional comedians just like keep working on stuff because you never know what might turn into a fun story like i've seen professional comedians that like drop in on open mic night slots and just do like not great not ass material but just stuff that is not very funny yeah and it's also so comforting to see like oh that's why they're professionals like you only see the special when they've honed it all and they just put in all the stuff that kills yeah i uh i i wanted that's a that's a part of craft that i would like to explore but i again i think it's so hard i think It scares the shit out of me.

58:34But I feel like once you get a bit of your feet wet and you get more comfortable. Let's land this plane. What do you want to do, Kevin? Just land the plane.

58:44Thomas Pokorn:Where are we going? I don't know. Thomas, what do you think about your legacy? What do you want people to remember you by? Wow. Big question. What do I want people to remember me by? I would want people to think, damn that was a a really good guy but not like a in a bland way where it's like oh likable enough i want to have um brought a positive benefit to a lot of people's lives that they miss me and they can grovel and be like cry a lot when you're gone but but yeah when i'm gone but i also want them to remember all the happiness that i brought them and like i imagine my funeral having like being a million people and one million not like an actual million just like a lot of people randomly showing up even though nobody would expect them to and wow the people there at the funeral are just like why is barack obama here yeah and who follows me on twitter wow also known as x oh yeah we didn't get into that wait yeah barack obama follows me on twitter i don't want to blow up your spot but i think he also follows me can we dm him right now tried i tried one time for shits and giggles after it happened and a friend didn't believe me and he was like send him a dm and i was like let's see and he just unread of course yeah is it from it's it's a potus account or is it like the barack the barack obama account a barack obama official account obama obama obama uh do you want to freelance for the rest of your life do you uh do you ever want to start a company uh what would thomas inc where's this thing going yeah where are we going with all this Wow, interesting question.

1:00:21Now we're getting to the hard-hitting things, like just as we're about to exit the interview, we're going with the legacy and the studio. I get this question a lot, but I think if I founded a studio, I think I wouldn't want it to just have that word focus, because nobody would come necessarily to a brand studio just for the words. there's people out there killing it like read words for example but it's very hard they just had to shutter their new york location for example i think it's very hard to just do brand wise like the thinking and the word aspect because such an integral part of that is the visual design and how everything comes together so i think i would i would maybe partner up or become a partner or join a studio at some point but i'm also like i'm happy to be trucking along freelancer it's working out for me i enjoy coming in and trying to be as useful as possible as fast as possible and really um delivering value damn and verbalizing value and that's been working out for me like i'm i'm interested in hearing offers but it's it's kind of like dating like nobody nobody's really made a serious move to before or expressed their interest that way really interesting that's not what I've heard no one's no one's came with a bag of cash no one's dumped a truckload of cash to me and that's a difficult position because before when I came here and I wanted a job and I knew no one nobody wanted to hire me and now nobody's asking because they're all like he probably makes too much

1:01:48Thomas Pokorn:now who's the hot girl yeah I took off my glasses and now I'm hot back then hoes didn't want me Now my ho's all on me. He's all that. Wow. Beautiful. The glow up is real. Would you take a full-time job if the right one came around? If the right one came around, I'm interested. That's why I liken it to dating. Would you accept this offer? Where's the envelope? What number am I looking at? I didn't prepare. No, generally, if I'm working with somebody, I get along well. And what matters most to me is having interesting challenges, interesting projects so they can really sink my teeth in and also not be boxed into one lane of just doing strategy nobody puts thomas in a box yeah nobody puts baby in a corner that box would have to be so big it would have to be such a large box it would have to be a goddamn fridge box i would be like the the the amazon prime truck on the whole truck thomas you were a chubby a chubby kid i was a very uh i was a very chubby kid yeah i was a chubby kid too kevin was you were a chubby Yeah, that's why we all get along.

1:02:58That's why we get along. That's why we have a personality. That's right. Yeah, that's why we have to have skills and good vibes. All right.

1:03:06Thomas Pokorn:Let's wrap this up. What do you mean? This is great. This is the best bit we've got all day. Guess what? Good news for me. Barack Obama follows me. Nice. It said you follow each other. He also follows a half a million people. So it is not to blow you up. We are both Barack's mutual. Yeah. Do you think he's ever seen any one of our tweets? Absolutely not. No, I don't think so either. It's probably just like some automatic bot that crawls through. I don't know if I follow you on Twitter. Do you tweet a lot? I don't tweet a lot. I have not tweeted forever since before I was X. But I've had a Twitter account like so early on because of journalism school.

1:03:44Look at this picture of Thomas. One professor was like, have it. He's even whiter.

1:03:47Thomas Pokorn:Somehow he's more pale in the Twitter photo. I'm also blue. Yeah, yeah. I just started following. It's your bio. Do you know what it is? I make things a lot. Pun Jedi, Batman analyst, I think. Yeah. Pun Jedi. It's been a while. Pun Jedi, resident Batman analyst. Your last tweet. Let's go through Thomas's tweets. Good Lord.

1:04:11You ready? Yeah. Hit me. Your last tweet says, you're not getting all out of Vision Pro if you're not combining it with chat GPT. So many applications. This is just the beginning. Wow. Wow, visionary. I think there was more of... This is a pro Vision Pro tweet? No, I'm pretty sure that it was a piss take. If you go through the other tweets, I vividly remember... Oh, you're being ironic. I vividly remember not liking the product. Yes, Apple has made a great AR headset. Yes, it is just the first version. I'm sure the tech is great. There's so little elegance in it, though. It's like the clunkiest geek out of the world known to man.

1:04:49Thomas Pokorn:There you go. Okay, so you weren't in favor. I thought that was a freezing cold take that you were pro Apple vision, which again, you know, ahead of its time. Just, I will go down on the right side of history as one of few Austrians. Wow. Thank God. This is great. Let's just keep going through Thomas's tweets. Oh my Lord. Oh my God. From 2015. Now has anyone in any, whoever way died from emails. Just curious. September 4th, 2016. I'm a busy man. Job description. Millennial. Ooh, album art meeting for the new Bon Iver was either held at Tumblr HQ or Yale. He's getting takes off. Yeah. Let's just keep scrolling.

1:05:30Keep scrolling. Keep scrolling. The graphic design Twitter. Yeah. Well, this is great.

1:05:35Thomas Pokorn:You were very active. Get a big scroll. Yeah, that's what I'm trying. Get a couple big scrolls in. I was trying to get out of 2016. You were very active in 2016. Yeah. I don't know what happened then. I must have been, I think, trying to make more of a visible online. Are you a threader now or no? Just not? putting your thoughts on the internet i'm just a really i shout into for brands i shout into the void on instagram stories my my brother he has kids they're like teenagers uh very very gen z and they make fun of my posts all the time but i keep telling them like it's it's called stories what are they saying they're like you post like you the things are too long yeah and that i also don't have like a brand like one thing they're like one day you're posting your cycling things The other day, then you're posting a movie review, and then you're thinking about food and talking about food that you made.

1:06:24And they're like, you don't have a personal brand like that.

1:06:28Thomas Pokorn:The brand's Thomas Pokorn. Look him up. And that's what I said, too. It's called stories. July 14, 2013, Thomas tweeted, it's Sunday. I've been carefully selecting words for five hours with utter joy. Creativity is nothing if not the willingness to get to work. Let's go. I do not remember that. Hustle Thomas. Beautiful. Beautiful. Must have been an out-of-body experience. I like that you were selecting words for hours. Selecting, too, from the dictionary. Wow. Wow. Beautiful. Beautiful stuff. Well, Thomas, it's been great to have you on the show. It's been better to get to know you in real life.

1:07:04Thank you for being a friend of the stew, being a friend of mine, friend of the pod. and I'm sorry that this episode has let you down with all of our technical challenges and just our general Friday malaise. My bad gang.

1:07:21Thomas Pokorn:My bad gang. We'll do it again better next year, but thank you for coming on. Happy to be here. Yeah. All right. Sounds good. Thanks, Thomas.

1:07:44Thank you.