GO HARD OR GO HOME

0:00Yeah, maybe we get to it. Maybe we don't. No, I'm putting it with the Chicken Bag, Betty Crocker, Buzz Ball, Giant Curry Sun. Those are all like merch meets. That's crazy. And then the question is, where do we put the High Rocks Woman? At the start? I mean, we could lead off with that. Yeah, maybe. Maybe we start. I feel like it's kind of the biggest story. Yeah, I mean, it certainly is the thing that I've been asked the most this week. Like, did you see that? Yeah. which unfortunately i did i saw too much i think is the main problem

0:39three two one what's up dude uh joanna's a dog that's what's up i honestly my take is the same like she fucking finished and she's a warrior and we should salute that woman somebody probably

0:54Kevin:should have stepped in on behalf of high rocks like somebody from the organization should have stopped the athlete i think you know in that situation um you know you've been training for this event for probably a while who knows how long she's been training but like certainly this was an important moment for her and you know these things happen these uh these people have accidents especially when you're you know consuming i mean i don't know what she was taking you know odd pre-workouts yeah even without odd pre-workouts you know you start exercising i think all the blood rushes out of your stomach which creates an environment that it's conducive for accidents like this and yeah like it's a pretty bad visual to have shit running down your leg yeah yeah it's a tough it's it's a tough maybe deterring to the fellow competitors who are maybe behind her but like to that i say work harder get in front of her so you know she did win right she won yeah yeah she won so as she said a win is a win yeah And as a performance athlete myself, I don't know if you remember, Kevin, I ran the New York City Marathon last year.

1:59Kevin:Alex, you famously shit your pants. I didn't shit myself. I think your nerves mixed with sort of carbo-loading, mixed with just trying to get your body ready for extreme performance. These things happen. Yeah. She's certainly not the first, but it is certainly a tough look. Look, I love that her first Instagram story was like, go hard or go home. They say a win is a win. I mean, fair enough. Facts, facts. Yeah. Shout out to her. She didn't finish or sorry. She didn't quit. She finished and she won. That's just called going beast mode. Yeah. So champion. And I think if we are to be mad at anybody here, it's probably the High Rocks organization.

2:44Maybe pull her out of there. Actually, shut it all down. No, we don't need to do those things anymore. like high rocks it's the new crossfit i know i'm aware of that but it's it's those people that do that thing i'm i'm not uh in support of them why you don't you don't like people getting after it

3:01Kevin:just too much too much let people get after it yeah people got to compete i don't know i think just you know as a as an event organizer yes yes yes you are famously no i'm not an event organizer but like if i were involved in this uh situation yes i think as a organization you really have to be like we gotta get that athlete out of there i was taught that you know you play to the whistle you know exactly exactly you don't give up until either somebody pulls you out the field or you hear the great point i didn't hear no fucking whistle she didn't hear no whistle so like yeah it's not really on her to like like what's she gonna tap out okay she's been training for this thing for you know probably a year maybe maybe plus and she's gonna say oh man i will actually i'm gonna tap out i don't know i mean i just think that like you know she's a beast yeah and you know when you're competing at that level it's like you're not thinking about oh i got shit running on my leg yeah you're thinking about i gotta finish this competition i gotta win i gotta win and like it's on the event to pull her out she was halfway she was station four of eight the new times describes her as about halfway through the race halfway yeah one out of two yeah so she finished in one hour one minute and 23 seconds so she was 30 minutes in roughly yeah that's uh but i agree with your take i think it stands even further now which is like she it's you know she's gonna win she's plays to win the game and if she didn't hear the whistle she didn't hear someone come in and say stop then she's gonna keep going and uh obviously obviously it's like you know unsanitary biohazard not good for health yeah you know maybe not good for other competitors like these things are all fair but that's why people got mad yeah the health reasons yeah and like i think people got mad that she was like oh wins a win scoreboard which fair like i don't know yeah yeah just she went off she was in beast mode and she overcame that pretty horrible situation to to win and it's really not on her yeah i mean it was on her for sure like no doubt there's photo evidence of it being on her yeah but like the onus yeah um the onus of like tapping out of a competition yeah like yeah i don't know you can't do that as a competitor absolutely not three words i have for this hero warrior champion absolutely you know what and that's and that's and that's what we gotta say she did just vacate the window oh no yeah she i feel like she got kind of uh publicly shamed into uh vacating and apologizing yeah i mean that's the the the world we live in where you have to you know again you you can't you can't you can't just win anymore and not apologize.

5:48Well, welcome to all the new listeners of the program. This is front and center. This is the topic show, which we do once or twice a month. And when we're not having incredible, famous design guests on the program, we talk about the week in news and branding and design and culture. I'm not sure exactly how this fits in. I guess it's the High Rocks brand. Here's the branding spin, Alex. Yeah. This is really good for the High Rocks brand. This is the best thing that could have happened. I kind of agree. I mean, I've catapulted them up into the forefront of culture and news. Yep.

6:24Kevin:And everyone's talking about it. Yep. They should be thrilled. They should be fucking thrilled about this. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you because I was familiar with High Rocks. I've seen a couple of people on my timelines out there pushing some heavy things, looking strong. And my initial reaction was not for me. I don't think that's something I'm going to ever even attempt. But you're right. There definitely were millions of people that had no idea what High Rocks was. And they just found out. Which reminds me of a little brand that I didn't know about until last month, which is Novig. And they did, you know, obviously you can have an organic natural moment like this, which will catapult your brand to people's attention.

7:07Some are saying a big natural moment. Yeah, yeah. Or you can just do a partnership with Sydney Sweeney, which is, I'm just going to put this on the record. Sydney Sweeney is a marketing genius. That's it. I'm just going to say it. I mean, she's a lighting rod. Yeah. She knows that everyone will talk about her and she's unafraid to be that. And it just, it just, it works. It's a hundred minutes where it works. And in this case, Novig did a campaign centered on just sports. I don't even really know what Novig is. It's a betting, sports gambling. It's like a prediction market thing. That's what I – Sports prediction market, yeah.

7:43It's a polymarket. It's gambling. It's gambling. And so they had an idea, a crazy idea. What if she's basically not wearing any clothes and just saying sports a bunch of times? And people – again, it's just like so obviously meant to get people triggered. And then it works perfectly. And they knew exactly what they were doing. It's the oldest trick in the book. It's the oldest trick in the book. Like, you can just generate controversy through nudity and through Sidney Sweeney. And then everyone will post it. Everyone will debate it. And then people will do parodies. And now everyone knows what Novig is.

8:22Kevin:Yeah, everyone knows. Yeah. I think it's kind of crazy that this is, like, airing on national television. Like, I don't think about the kids. Yeah. Wow. One of my friends told me he was just watching the Mets game. And just boom. Wow. this is a real uh sort of old man's take here what about the kids i every day i'm uh drifting closer and closer to being a boomer i gotta this is the most boomer uh i've ever heard you on this show especially when it comes to sports i mean i'm a i'm kind of a sports boomer dude yeah no i get it though i don't know like i'm just thinking about like my nieces and nephews maybe you know innocently watching uh a football game and then you know boom sydney sweeney and also sports gambling just being just directly shoved in the faces of kids that not not that good that that part i agree with yeah very dubious it's a lot it's a lot of sports gambling and i think it will maybe level out at some point i don't think so i mean they got they've got all the money they they were literally they literally have all the money they're sucking it from the people yeah like uh did you see uh the sunday night football they had like a really i mean i was kind of i was little stone when i was watching this i was like whoa this is a lot yeah but they had this like fucking nerd with glasses on talking about like you know these are the most bet lines like yeah basically like really really just like simplifying it hammering it it almost felt like it was four children you really yeah like it was that simple and like and i was just like ah come on like do we really need to be talking about the like kenneth walkers like over under yards right now In the pregame, can't we just talk about sports?

9:55Yeah. Holy shit. Again, I do agree with you because I was watching the Giant game last night and there was, yeah, right before the kickoff, there was like, is Cam Scadaboo going to get the first touchdown of the game bet on Polymark? And you're just like, oh, man. It feels gross. It does feel gross. And I get it. It's like that's where the money is and that's become now part of why people watch sports. But it does feel like a lot and it feels quite aggressive. And when Pat McAfee is doing it with his fucking tight ripped pants, like I just, it just smoking a joint. It just really is, is, is turning me off.

10:27And like, I just, I agree with you. It just feels like we need to tone it down a little bit. Yes. Think about the kids. What the hell? Yeah. Yeah. And like kids watch sports too. Listen, me putting money on, on Jackson Dart and then him getting hurt on the fucking first play of the, you know, first series of the game, you know, of course, like.

10:42Kevin:Why don't you get your money back? I think you, I think you do. I guess you can. You should look at, look into that. Yeah. Yeah, we're not a pro sports gambling podcast unless Polymarket wants to do ads on this program in which we will absolutely change our team. Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly a hypocrite. I mean, I do it, but it's like I'm very aware that like it's literally the dumbest thing you can do. Yeah, you know, but this Indy Sweeney thing absolutely worked. worked and she was i you know i think the the memes and the sort of parodies and the sort of just like i think the simplicity of the just like her carrying all the different you know sort of sports equipment and just saying sports over and over and over again yeah i don't even think that hockey stick was like real like i don't think that was a legitimate goalie hockey stick i i had some problems with the equipment there yeah the props on yeah i mean it doesn't matter like you know She's going to get eyeballs, obviously, and people are going to talk about it.

11:39Kevin:And then obviously the social media reaction is just going to pour gasoline all over that and just circulate the hell out of it. And we're all playing right into their hands. We're lining Sydney Sweeney's pockets on her allegedly great jeans with money. And you know what? Good for her, though. She's like a partner in the brand or something. Good for her. Honestly, I just feel like every time I see Sydney Sweeney doing something like this, I'm like, she's a genius. Like he knows exactly what she's doing. I mean, I don't think this right to the bank and she's, she's got us all, you know, in the palm of her hand.

12:11I wouldn't say that she's a genius.

12:14Kevin:I wouldn't say that. I just didn't. I'll say that. Yeah, no, I think Stan on that. But, uh, you know, she's certainly, you know, using her assets to generate revenue. I'm not super wild about the ads. I, you know, they weren't very interesting. What's the strategy is? She's so fucking hot. Like maybe if I win at gambling, she'll talk to me. No, I mean, I don't even think it's that. I just think it's like – No, it's not that. It's just like sex sells. It's rule one in advertising. That – Yes, 100%. But I think to me it's more just like Sydney Swinney is like the closest thing we have at this moment to like monoculture and this idea that like there's someone that is – everyone knows about and just sort of represents sort of just general sort of sex in that way.

12:57And so it's just like how can she just be deployed to get people to talk about things? And I just think that's like a great branding in some way is just like for her. And I don't even think again in the beginning it was 100 % intentional that she was going to become this. But like, I don't know, just it's quite old school where it's like anything she does becomes news.

13:17Kevin:Yeah. Anything. Anything she does is part of culture. And same thing with Drake even like when Drake does like his dumb little things online. But it's like it's not as successful. But like Drake can just generate attention. Yeah. Yeah, I saw a headline the other day about when at the plug cashing in her hall pass. Yeah, well, that's the thing. It's like, why do I fucking know that? But that's not real. That's just like people trying to generate sort of clicks and eyeballs and attention and anything is, you know, it's hard to do. And I just feel like Drake and Zindy Swinney and like, you know, it's these are people that are doing it well and sort of and purposely.

13:56Yeah, well. Using the Internet to. They are certainly garnering eyes. That's what I'm saying. And that's hard to do. And I think that's what people are trying to do all the time with all of marketing and branding. Like, I hate to say it, but it's just like, that's what we're all trying to do is get people to talk about whatever the hell we're working on.

14:16Kevin:I mean, they really like, I mean, women's sports is such a big, like, front of mind topic right now. Just based on all the things that are going on with Enos Kanter and all that dumb shit. There's a lot of really, really dumb shit going on. That's some of the dumbest. In the politics and culture around it. Ed Sheeran. There's so much stuff. Ed Sheeran is not women's sports. No, but I'm saying topics that are garnering people's attention. Did you see his cousin wrote a three-paragraph Facebook post about him? Ed Sheeran's cousin? Yeah. I wasn't worried. Just like trashing him. Yeah. And it's like, he's probably been, he's probably had that ready to go for like 10 years, a decade.

15:02He's probably had that in his draft for a decade. Ed Sheeran is a, is a, is, is a easy punching bag for sure. I saw one tweet that made me laugh. It was like, say what you will about Ed Sheeran, but he's got great tattoos. And his tattoos are just so bad. So it's just like, it's just so easy to, to hate on him and just, you know, but again, this is all just what people are talking about. People aren't even talking about the fact that Trump wants to rebrand AI. I didn't even know that until you put this here.

15:27Kevin:Well, I was looking – yesterday I was trying to find stories about branding and rebranding. And this was the – I searched rebrand on Google News. Wow. This is the hottest story around. I did see him talking about AI at some conference or whatever. He said that it's going to be more impactful than the internet. Wow. I think he might be right, but I don't know who told him that one. and uh you know no you can just say that about you just say about any emerging technology it is you bring up a great point which is just like we say that about things for like the metaverse is going to be more impactful than anything that sydney sweeney is going to be more impactful than the internet which i mean to be honest uh partly i believe that more you know it's like nfts are going to be more powerful than industrial revolution it's just like i i know everyone everyone's trying to get their like uh their hot take out there exactly but i will say i did like that he had some alternative naming.

16:20As a guy that does naming, Kevin, he was floating some ideas, alternatives to artificial intelligence. You ready? Superior intelligence. Supreme intelligence. And then my personal favorite, extreme intelligence, which feels like an energy drink.

16:37Kevin:Yeah. Supreme intelligence received the least amount of votes, though. He put this out for a vote? People were voting on it, yeah. Oh, hell yeah. Where was the vote? I don't know. Probably on Truth Social? Probably on truth social. Hell yeah. Geez. Yeah. I get like the artificial intelligence of it all making it feel scary, but I'm not sure superior intelligence makes it any less scary. Yeah. So I'm not a big supreme intelligence guy. Yeah. I don't think – that ain't right. Good look for the brand supreme. Sure. Yeah, I guess. They could probably benefit from that. Yeah. Extreme intelligence is kind of nice though.

17:08Yeah, yeah, yeah. What should we call it though? I mean, what, you know, internet robot, you know, sort of chat thing. I have no idea. I don't really care. I think we should just unplug it. Yeah. I call mine Chad. I think we just need to unplug everything. Chad GPT is my name. Chad. Yeah. Yeah. But I agree with you. We're doomed. Did you watch that doc yet? The AI doc? No. Gotta watch it, man. That's my only doc recommendation I've had over the last like two months or so.

17:37Kevin:I don't give a shit. It's great. It's a really good doc. What did it say? Don't use it? No, it just said we're either going to be squashed like ants or we're going to live in a utopian future where none of us have jobs. Well, we're certainly not going to live in a utopian future. I hate to burst the bubble there, but that's certainly not the case. You ever hear fucking – what's that guy? Sam Altman? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You ever hear any of those billionaires talk about the future or fucking Peter Thiel? Yep. Those guys are fucking idiots. Those guys need to be – I mean, high key, those guys need to be Mangione-ed.

18:07Kevin:Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I should be saying that on open mic. You literally just said it. Maybe I'll bleep it out. Maybe I'll poorly bleep that one out. He is in the Ducks, I'm Altman. Do we trust these people? Absolutely not. No, we're fucked. We're super fucked. And yeah, the sort of squash us like ants, I guess, is the question. It's just like how long before they decide to sort of end all of humanity. Yeah, I certainly trust the systems and institutions we have in place to take care of me and my fellow, you know. My fellow regular people, when all the jobs leave, we're just dependent on the human beings.

18:46Kevin:When three people have all the wealth, it'll be sweet. I'm sure it'll work out for me. Yeah. Me and my fellow people. My fellow humans? Yeah. We're going to be fine. Don't worry about it. Me and the rest of the 99%. That's right. You know who we should get mad at? Jessica Hish. It's all her fault. It's all her fault. Like I, again, and like, I think with all the things going on with the planet and AI and our future and, uh, getting mad at Jessica for doing a M logo for meta Facebook, whatever, man, is that not the problem? I just can't even express like how that is not going to do anything for anyone.

19:30And people got big mad on the internet. Like we are a design podcast, so we should probably talk about it. like people she did a logo for muse right yeah use is what it's called the new ai assistant and so muse is a facebook a meta chatbot assistant thing and it needed an it needed a logo and jessica is one of the greats and she did it and just the amount of people that got mad at her for it is was startling i went onto my threads and literally every single thing on there was jessica hish i was like what did she do i didn't even know about it yeah i consider myself a tapped in individual and so people apparently are mad because she designed for meta a company that is not looking out for the people of of us us humans yeah certainly but i guess like here's my take on this if you are gonna get mad at people for working for companies that aren't uh pure uh sort of um pure good intentioned companies we're gonna have a tough time out here yeah designers and i'm not saying that all companies are evil but if you trace the cord to the wall it's gonna be tricky for companies like ours to work with companies that are only doing right on the planet and again i want to do work with companies that are good intentioned have good values and are doing things for the right reasons yeah absolutely but if we're gonna get mad at the designers for doing that work i just feel like you're putting your blame in the wrong fucking

21:10Kevin:place yeah i mean i i can see like getting mad but then it's just like i don't know just like get the bag like spend the money on your family like spend the money on the people you employ and that's what she said yeah she was like i have bills to pay i run these got bills to pay got mouths to feed and she's like i run businesses that are trying to help people specifically designer she has like an app that helps like designers run their business she's got an actual business in san francisco i believe that's like set up to like help designers and sell things that are like cool and she's got employees there and so she like jessica's like been if anything the most transparent person in design for two decades i mean she wrote a nine what are they called is it nine thread yeah yeah threads yeah yeah nine thread thread thread threads yeah she explained her decision and like very transparent and she was transparent like back in the day the thing that jessica like like was known for was sort of her transparent pricing that you put on her blog you'd be like okay this is what i charge for small companies this is what i charge for large companies and like how she did it and it was to help other people so it's like i think you have to look at people's intentions and history and like what type of person she is and again i I know her a little bit, but I know her to be a great human being.

22:25And she didn't really do anything wrong here. So I'll defend her and I'm sure it'll blow over. But people just need to calm down again. Like this is a common theme here with Alan Peters and her. It's just like, why are we as a community coming after our own people? Because we're all riled up. We don't have anywhere to put our energy, dude. We're just looking at screens all day. You bring up a great point, but let's go touch some grass. Go touch some grass is always the answer. But then the other thing is like, I think it's coming from a group of people that are like anti-AI, right? Which is fair.

22:59And I get the problems. But also, you get mad at the companies for using AI to replace designers, which is understandable. But then they hire a designer to do the work, and then you get mad at the designer. and so that there's no winning for for anyone yeah i feel like here and unfortunately ai is a tool that is going to be used by companies and it's not going anywhere uh it's not going to get rebranded and it's not gonna we can't put it back in the tube yeah so getting mad at jessica hish feels really crazy to me yeah get your bag buy your land exit society exactly exactly and uh We haven't had her on the show, but we'll have to get her on here.

23:50And I think she just, again, like to be put in that position where she's just in the fire and everyone's like, get her. Yeah. It's just like, Jesus Christ, people. Logo's good. Logo's good. And, you know, again, she, you know, it was probably, it's not like a massive project for her. It's not like people are like, oh, she's making millions. It's like, I don't think she's making millions from this M mark. It's probably, you know, a small amount of time and work. And also, I think if I remember this correctly, she her husband worked for Facebook for like 10 years or so. So it's not just like some company that she doesn't know.

24:24She has relationships with people. And I think she said that in one of her threads. So I just get off her back. Just just chill out. And just just you got to find something else to get mad about. And there's plenty of other things to get mad about. What else you get mad about? Oh, new Apple phones. You get mad about the new Apple phones. I mean, what do you think?

24:44Kevin:this is our um you know i'm not i'm not mad i just i want to wonderful i want to fold the phone i want to fold the ipad i'm not mad i'm just disappointed yeah i just i just really want the phone do you want the fold the foldable phone no i'm just kidding i here's the thing i want to want the phone i just don't know that i do yeah it's kind of the same thing i felt when they launched like the vision pro headset thing where i was like this is for me this is for someone like me that is an apple fanboy that like wants something new and exciting from them it just doesn't have that thing yeah what are you gonna do i kind of want to see it though i want to feel it i want to hold it i want to hold it i gotta i gotta get my hands on it yeah i mean did you see that uh i mean i know you saw it the uh the so i guess in the keynote they had of a hand holding it yes the fingers were very very long yes like a little salad finger type situation Yeah.

25:40I mean, it's a big phone. So to get your hands wrapped around the thing, I think that's also something I want to test. Like I put my phone in my pocket. Like, is this a pocketable phone? I don't know. And also another thing I like to do on my phone is take it out during dinner, especially in the middle of conversations. Yeah. You love that. I love doing that. And so if my phone is an iPad, people are going to get even more mad than they already get mad. Yeah. So I don't know. And then you're just an iPad, baby. Again, also like taking it out at a concert, holding it up with two hands. Like that seems insane.

26:16But I do want to see it. I kind of want to try it. Well, luckily, we've got an Apple store that's probably like a mile and a half away from here.

26:22Kevin:I bet you could go see it today if you wanted to. I definitely could. Also, it's like two grand, right? It's expensive. I don't know. It's an expensive phone. I'm not even looking at the price. I'm not going to get it. Yeah. I know I'm not getting it. Yeah. I haven't made my final decision, but I do think it's a likely no, unfortunately. But yeah, those fingies, you know, how do you get those hands around that beast? Yeah. I mean, here's another boomer take for me. Yeah. How the fuck do you fold a screen? It is incredible. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's a crazy development. That is insane. I just don't understand.

26:56understand my brain can't comprehend how like yeah you're folding that thing every day you know yeah and it's how is it right is it how is it isn't how is it gonna wear like yeah is it gonna be all fucked up in the middle like is that is that gonna be a dead spot like i just don't i don't understand yeah i i agree with you and sort of like how it opens is interesting right like they figured out that like it's there's like this moment in between where it's sort of blurry and And I feel like it just, I got to try it, but I don't, it just looks strange to me. I don't know. I'm just not, I'm not, it's not giving me that Apple feeling that I want to have, which is like, I mean, you always say that.