KNICKS FOR CLICKS

27 May 2026 · 52 min · 17 chapters

Ask about this episode

Ask anything about it. ChatGPT or Claude reads this page and answers with the times it was said.

Connect VO and ask about every podcast you hear, including the moments you saved. Add to ChatGPT · Add to Claude

In short

The hosts celebrate the New York Knicks reaching the NBA Finals while debating Knicks branding/design (“Knicks for Clicks”), fandom gatekeeping, and watching-party culture. They also cover design/branding news and viral internet moments (Spotify icon change, Threads/Twitter algorithm complaints), plus sports-adjacent chatter (Timothée Chalamet courtside, Landry Shamet threes, Taylor Swift/Travis Kelce at games). They finish with food/consumer brand talk (David’s “Cod 2.0,” David ice cream tease, Bush’s Beans limited flavors).

Guests

No guests appear; it’s a two-host conversation (Alex and Kevin are referenced).

Key claims

Knicks logo is “too much” compared to simpler icons (Mets/Yankees); don’t “touch” an iconic logo. Knicks fans are bandwagoning (“welcome aboard”). Spotify’s temporary icon change is rage-bait but harmless. Enhanced Games are strange and likely PED-driven; David’s packaging/rollout is well executed.

Notable examples

Deuce McBride minutes/role; watch parties in Queens; Chase-sponsored Knicks superfan trip to Cleveland with Stephon Marbury; Drake “Janice STFU” TikTok father/Escalade; Spotify “disco ball” icon; David’s Cod 2.0 and Bella Hadid ice cream; Bush’s Beans influencer pack (dill pickle, rocket pop, apple pie).

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Anticipation for the NBA Finals

2:19 to 3:21

Hosts share excitement and concerns about the Knicks' journey to the NBA finals.

“So we're about to do an hour about the Knicks.”

Fan Experience and Knicks Culture

3:21 to 4:50

Discussion on the Knicks fan culture and the excitement surrounding the team.

“I mean, I think the fans, myself included, would like to see the Spurs.”

Traveling and Missing the Finals

4:50 to 6:50

One host shares experiences traveling and the challenges of watching the finals.

“It is definitely, yeah, it's taking the city best harm.”

Design Conference Experience

6:50 to 10:10

One host recounts experiences at a design conference and discussions about design.

“I'm going to miss the New York Knicks playing in the NBA finals.”

Music and Cultural References

10:10 to 14:00

Hosts discuss music, popular culture, and a viral TikTok video featuring a father and daughter.

“I didn't spend a lot of time anywhere doing any shopping or anything.”

Drake's Viral Move with Janice

14:00 to 18:00

Discussion on Drake's clever social media strategies and viral moments.

“and to see rap music being passed down from generation to generation.”

Knicks Game Highlights and Celebrity Sightings

18:00 to 23:00

Conversation about the Knicks game, celebrity attendance, and fan reactions.

“The only thing that is annoying is that I do want to go to game six.”

The Enhanced Games and Cultural Reflections

23:00 to 28:00

An exploration of the Enhanced Games, athlete performances, and their cultural significance.

“There was that one viral meme of the guy in a swimsuit that looked so jacked.”

Introduction of Cod 2.0

28:00 to 29:19

Learn about the launch and features of Cod 2.0 and its market reception.

“Speaking of enhancing and optimization, David launched tin fish.”

David's New Ice Cream Launch

29:20 to 31:09

Explore the marketing strategies behind David's ice cream and celebrity endorsements.

“I mean, that's an idea that I feel like a lot of brands have attempted.”
Show all 17 chapters

Rebranding and Packaging Changes

31:10 to 32:49

Discuss the new packaging for David’s ice cream and its marketing implications.

“I wonder what if Ryan and the crew at Dayjob had something to say about that.”

Alternative Desserts Discussion

32:50 to 34:33

Investigate the trend of alternative desserts and their real-life results versus expectations.

“First four flavors are chocolate cookie dough, cookies and cream and triple peanut butter.”

Frozen Yogurt Trends in NYC

34:34 to 36:43

Examine the resurgence of frozen yogurt and personal experiences with popular brands.

“There's a big frozen yogurt kick right now going on in New York City.”

Spotify's New App Icon Controversy

36:44 to 39:22

Analyze the backlash over Spotify's new app icon and its implications for branding.

“that's, uh, yeah, people don't like change.”

User Reactions and Engagement

39:23 to 42:00

Discuss user reactions to Spotify's changes and the importance of brand familiarity.

“That's a big difference between this and a sort of limited run of a new app icon.”

Threads and Twitter: The Social Media Landscape

42:00 to 44:28

The hosts discuss their experiences with social media platforms, particularly Threads and Twitter, and the content they encounter.

“But how do you feel about the new Threads logo?”

The Joy of Being a Knicks Fan

44:28 to 46:31

The hosts share their enthusiasm for being Knicks fans and the joy it brings them amidst life's challenges.

“because this moment's not going to last, good or bad.”
Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.
Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00I feel like my head is too big for this hat. That's why I never wear it. It is my best Knicks hat. As you know, I don't love the logo. Yeah. I just don't want to wear it. I don't know why. Something about it doesn't. You have the classic Knicks logo.

0:14Kevin:You have the Knicks logo. Yeah. I don't know. The Knicks logo is good. It's not good. It's just too much. Think about the Mets and Yankees logos. Those are so simple and iconic. like the Knicks logo, like on a hat, like line those three up. And you're like, I have that Knicks logo on a hat and it's a good hat. Yeah. It's a great hat even. Yeah. So you got the triangle with the back. Yeah. I got the main logo on a hat. It's great. Yeah. I don't love it. I just don't love the main logo on a hat. I'm just going to say it. And I've been saying it for years and it's okay. It's okay. We can, we can agree to disagree.

0:53I wish I liked it more. I would probably own more hats with it. I like the NYK. I feel like we could maybe make that a thing. I don't know. I like the dimension of the Knicks logo. I think it's nice. I feel like the token logo could be an iconic logo if done. What's the token logo? It's kind of the subway token, this guy. Oh, yeah. That one's a good one. I think it's a good secondary mark. I feel like it could be the main mark. If it was done, maybe it was just redrawn a little bit.

1:26Kevin:I feel like you should be careful what you wish for because you get somebody in there and next thing you know, you're left with nothing. Listen, I've said this before. So just don't touch it. It's an impossible job. Take your good logo. It's a good logo. I don't know what the issue is. It's just there's too much going on. It's such a complicated – it's got dimension and shadows. and they stripped away every they've taken all the dimensionality out of every single nba logo and they've reduced them to you know yeah i get it which is very minimal which is what i like yeah but everything looks the same yeah i mean i get it it is an iconic it's an iconic logo and it's never going to change and so i don't even know why we're debating i'm just saying i don't own a lot of stuff with it on it because i don't love wearing and that's just that's where we're Yeah, I guess we should start the show.

2:26Kevin:Two, one. What's up, buddy? So we're about to do an hour about the Knicks. New York Knicks are going to the NBA finals. How do you feel? You ready for Knicks podcasting? Yeah, design podcast. Yeah, people are. This is what they're tuned in for. They want to hear. We got to debate the logo. I mean, the fact that we even debated the Knicks logo at the top of the show shows that we are truly a design podcast. I'm not just going to talk about Deuce McBride and the impact of Landry Shaman on this team. I'm not going to do that. He's going crazy. Dude, I mean, he's Steph Curry out there. You guys are turning it on at the right time.

3:00You'll love to see it. I'm worried a little bit about how many days off we're getting, but I don't think anything can stop us.

3:06Kevin:Well, what's the best case scenario? Do you want the days off? Do you want the Western Conference Finals to go to seven? Of course I do. Of course, I want them to beat each other up till they can't see straight anymore. And then they have to come in and play a nine day rested New York Knicks. Yeah, who's a who's a better matchup? I mean, I think the fans, myself included, would like to see the Spurs. I feel like we have a better chance of actually winning the championship against the Spurs. I think we might even be favored. I think if we play them. Yeah, you think? I think OKC is the harder team.

3:42That's just personal. I think they're more deep. They're deeper. They're a deeper squad. They're a tougher matchup. Shai's going to get his. They're also a team that you can go up by 20 on them, and they come back in five minutes. Yeah. They got a lot of firepower. Which I think is what the Knicks have been doing to other teams. It's a great day to be a New Yorker. Yeah. I have been waiting for this for 27 years. 1999. was the last time that the Knicks were in the finals. Eminem had just released the Slim Shady LP. So it's been a while. But yeah, it's now a sort of how much of a Knicks fan are you competition here in New York, which I find to be quite nauseating.

4:30But listen, I don't need to pull up my bar mitzvah theme to show you that it was Knicks themed. And I also don't need to show you my key card to get into the MSG building when I worked there in 2006. You still work? This is just laying out my credentials. Yeah, it's not Knicks for clicks for Alex. It's Knicks for clicks. It is definitely, yeah, it's taking the city best harm. We're a basketball city. That's the thing. Yeah. And unlike baseball where there's divided teams or football, same thing, it's like everyone's in the next one. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's good to bring the city together.

5:05It brings the city together, but we can't party outside. That's the one rule that they did make. I don't know. That's kind of lame. It's a little lame, but I kind of get it as a sort of as a 40 year old, as an old man, as an old head. Like, do you really want people like throwing garbage cans and climbing buildings in the streets? No, definitely not. It's going to happen.

5:26Kevin:You know? Yeah. But I feel like it's a little bit. I think I feel like it's one of those things where it's like, you know, yeah, maybe you're not having the watch parties outside. But like, it's it's going to go down either way. Yeah, of course. There's enough watch parties. I didn't see any crazy stuff from last night. Did you? I mean, I was at one in Queens, which was – it got a little raucous. People started throwing beers and stuff. And I had to make a quick exit and get into an Uber. But, like, yeah, I mean, it's exciting. I mean, I think the thing that was interesting, it's like as the game's ending, everyone takes out their phone.

5:59Oh, yeah. And they're like, what are you going to record? It's like someone's got to do something crazy. Yeah, everyone's recording. Everybody recording. Exactly. Knicks for clicks. Knicks for clicks. But listen, Mom Donnie's bringing a championship in his first fucking season. And that's something you got to be proud of. Yeah, there you go. You got to be proud of. I've been in London, so I've missed a little bit of this. I actually didn't watch the only game of the series that was close. It was game one. We were down by 20 or whatever. Oh, that was such a choke joke. And I watched the highlights when I woke up in the morning because I had a talk that day.

6:31And I couldn't stay up all night just and blow my sort of speaking engagement. but I watched the highlights and it was like seven minutes into this, like, you know, 10 minute YouTube clip. And I was like, yeah, we lost. Yeah.

6:44Kevin:Don't you, uh, don't you have another speaking engagement coming up? I'm going, I'm going to Belfast. Uh, and then I'm going to Hamburg and I'm going to miss more. I'm going to miss the NBA finals. I'm going to miss the New York Knicks playing in the NBA finals. Well, I, if I were you, I'd try to tune in. I'm going to tune in, but it's one 30 in the morning. I mean, obviously I'm going to watch it. Uh, but yeah, no, it's, I'm not going to be here. I think you just got to give up the sleep. Sleep is, yeah, I'm going to be watching. I mean, I watched one of the games in London after my talk was done.

7:14I watched that game and we dominated. So every game I've watched, we just blow the fucking roof off on anyone. Yeah, there you go. And so it's all me. But London was great. Proper brilliant.

7:24Kevin:Yeah, did you get a proper English? I did get a proper English. Yeah, it almost took me out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got it with the works and I got, you know, sort of. What's the works? No, just like everything hash browns fucking. Yeah. Fuck. I don't know. I just everything you possibly I got a Bloody Mary. Oh, that probably took you out. Yeah. It just was like I had to it was it was a recovery situation and it was it was it was pretty damn good. But I, you know, struggle to breathe a little bit on my walk home. That's how you know it's good. I mean, that's a good meal. Yeah. But the food there is not great.

8:01I think they know that.

8:02Kevin:Do you think you just went to the bad places? No, I just think their food is lackluster. I don't know. Maybe you just didn't. You might have just not had the right strain. I had a good English breakfast. I had good fish and chips. I mean, those things are what you go for. I don't think you could really put a food not that good label on a big city like that. Come on now. I mean, I will say, so I was judging D &AD, which this is a design podcast, so I should say I was part of the new brand. identity jury. And I got locked in a room for two days and had the honor of debating the merits of graphic design and branding and typography and branding in general with a group of amazing people from all around the world.

8:46And it was actually quite illuminating. It was quite exciting and interesting to just spend 18 hours unfiltered. Oh my God. This is two days. Design criticism. Two days. Started at 9 a.m. each day and then went to about 6. And then we hit the pubs and it was nice. It was fun. But yeah, to not be like on Slack, on my phone, like just sitting in a room debating. You weren't on your phone? No. No, it wasn't allowed. They have very strict rules. It's actually quite interesting. That's nice. They really kind of keep it like really well. That's good. Good coordination. I really respect coordination.

9:23Another thing about my old age here. you know when i see things being uh organized well yeah you you start to notice those things

9:31Kevin:yeah i hear dna d's got that uh got that shit running like the navy right they honestly do i mean it's i didn't realize dude 300 jury members from all around the world that's not just like wow 20 of us there's 300 people that's crazy crazy fucking i didn't even know there was that much stuff to judge it was there was a ton of stuff to judge uh kind of felt like the olympics because I'd go to like breakfast. We're all sitting at the same hotel and then we all go to breakfast in the morning. And it was just like, yeah, it was. That's kind of nice. People fall all around the world. And yeah, it was kind of.

10:01Did you make any new friends? I did make some new friends. Yeah. You want to shout them out? I mean, sure. You know. Anybody of note? New friends. Just they know who they are. Neville Brody? I didn't meet Neville Brody. He wasn't there. Stefan Sagmeister is my new friend. Nice. You know, that's a new friend of mine. Did you get any Goose Island gear? I didn't get any. I didn't spend a lot of time anywhere doing any shopping or anything. I barely had time to even just get that English breakfast. I hung out with the Studio Drama guys. Shout out to the fucking lads over there. It was a proper sort of English crew.

10:36Right on. I had some late night kebabs with Lisa Smith, a former guest. Shout out. Talia Cotton was there, former guest. Shout out. Yeah. It was a good time. Good fun was had. Lots of pints. It's pints were had. One thing I also really liked, Kevin, we went to Brew Dog, which was kind of like an amusement park, more than a sort of a pub. But when the bar ended, they played Closing Time, which I think. That's a classic move. I honestly think that that should be the official anthem. I think it is. Of bars closing.

11:11Kevin:Is it? I think it. Yeah, I think it is. It was great. It really felt really strong. Is that the first time you've ever heard that? i mean i can't recall like a bar at like the closing time being like let's play closing time that's kind of surprising because i've i've heard that you heard it many times yeah yeah maybe not many times but it's you know a couple at least i think it should be standardized i think that's what we should be doing across the world i think we'd get sick of it i mean sure but i think it should be sparingly yeah i i mean it was it was phenomenal uh did you listen to ice man i did i I liked it.

11:45Okay. There was three albums. BB Iceman and Made of Honor. I don't know. He put out a lot of music, dude.

11:53Kevin:Yeah. I mean, I think it's like a classic Drake type thing where it's like the first half was cool. And then it just kind of stopped listening. It's too much music. I'm sorry. What happened to 12 songs? Nobody edits anymore. Yeah. Yeezus. I think that was 10. Reduced by Rick Rubin. I feel like that's what we need. I need Rick Rubin to come in. Yeah, where the hell is Rick Rubin? he's probably writing more books about creativity. We need him to go in there with Drake and be like, hey, Drake, we got to cut all this fat. I think he'd be left with like, you know, seven songs. He was all fired up. You know, he had a rough couple of years there.

12:28He did. I mean, listen, I never counted Drake out. I knew he was coming back. I knew that the boy would be back. And Janice, S-T-F-U, is the banger that is emerging from this digital sort of onslaught of songs.

12:43Kevin:I like the Shaboing Boing one. Okay. I'm not familiar. I listened to one song out of three albums. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, you're not an Iceman. I'm not. You know what's funny? I put it on my running playlist because I ran the Brooklyn Half Marathon, another thing that we haven't even talked about here on the show. It's been a busy week. I put it on my playlist, but - It's not a good activity. No. I tried to lift to it and it didn't hit. Yeah. I don't know. But did you see the NY Flava video? No. Do you know who that is? No, I don't know who that is. Okay, so on TikTok, I've been monitoring this for a while.

13:16It's a father from Buffalo. Okay. And he picks his daughter up from school. And as he opens up the door, she comes in and immediately just starts rapping. And it's mostly Drake, a little bit of Kanye, a little bit of Jay-Z, mostly hip-hop, some relevant new stuff. Sometimes like a Rihanna track, but mostly hip-hop songs. And his daughter, she's got swagger. She's got flow. she knows every lyric and it's like he hypes her up. He's like, yeah, it's Tuesday. Let's fucking go. And it's great. It really genuinely almost makes me want to be a father. It genuinely is that beautiful to see fatherhood and to see rap music being passed down from generation to generation.

14:05And so this week he picks up his daughter from school and who's in the back seat drake the boy yeah drake oof and it is it's a questionable decision after you've been uh sort of labeled a pedophile very publicly yeah to be in the back seat with a like you know 14 year old girl who is the star of these videos yeah that's a little tough but you know you gotta i guess you gotta be kind of you know but it is she doesn't know he's gonna be there and so she He gets into the car and it's Janice STFU and it's 45 million views. It's so cool. I mean, it's just classic Drake knowing how to use the internet.

14:46Kevin:Yeah, I'll say that maybe Drake isn't at the top of the list of people you wouldn't want to see in the backseat of your car when your daughter gets in. I don't know. I think there's probably some people who are higher up on that list. Definitely. You know, he knew what he was going to get from that, I assume. but it's just such a cool move. Like he bought the father and escalade. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. It just was like a really beautiful, like it just, it's just classic, like using the internet for good. Kind of like this guy's been going viral. He's kind of like Mr. Beast. He's kind of like Mr.

15:21Beast, but it's like, it's, it's, it's good for both parties. Right. You know what I mean? It obviously helps this father. Yeah. They got an escalade and they got an escalade out of it. And obviously got a ton of attention. And then to be honest, like it made the song that much more interesting. to me. I was like, oh, this song is a banger and we'll maybe be the song in the summer. That's the only song? It's the only song I've heard, so I haven't been listening. I like the one with Future. Yeah. I'm on a big Future kick. Really? Yeah. I've never been a huge Future guy, but I mean, I respect. Future's great.

15:51Did you see that Taylor Swift and your boy Travis Kelsey went to watch the Knicks actually sort of blow the fucking brakes off of those kevilles?

15:59Kevin:Yeah, I did see that. Belt ass. Did you see the Inside the NBA crew hoisted a banner that says Taylor Swift into one of our games. They were trying to figure out who she was rooting for because I didn't think she I mean she's been famously at a lot of Nick games. Yeah. She lives in New York like I don't think she cares. I don't think she really cares but I think she was doing a smart thing which was she wanted to be welcome back in New York so I think I think she was openly not rooting for the Cavs. Yeah. No Travis was which sure. Oh boy. That's your boy dude. Ohio he's I like him. You You should claim him.

16:33Kevin:I claim him, yeah. I think he's a great guy. I have nothing against Travis. Yeah, I don't have anything against him either. He's a little corny, and he dresses terribly, but whatever. Maybe he's a football player. What do you expect? He's been getting his head bashed in for 20 years. Did he see the chug? Yeah, I love the chug. Yeah, classic stuff. You got to do it. I support them being at the game. That was great. Great to see them courtside. Classic. She gave him a piece of gum for her bag. I just like to see. Pretend to fall asleep. Yeah. Normal, classic, classic couple at a sports game type shit.

17:08Yeah. Who amongst us? Yeah. Can't relate. And I like to see that, but then I also like to see Landry Schammett draining threes in their face.

17:16Kevin:Yeah. You guys really annihilated him. I mean, listen, it's, it's when Landry Schammett is, is, is pulling up from deep and just like not even touching rim and just unconscious threes. You know, you're in trouble. Yeah. What do you, What do you think about all this Knicks for Clicks and gatekeeping the fandom at this current moment? It seems like the bandwagon's filling up. This is what happens. And people are trying to, you know. Everyone's jumping on board. I mean, listen, it's just what it is. I mean, when your team wins and it's New York City and everyone's a New Yorker, this is what you're going to get.

17:51And when the Bengals went on their run, I'm sure. I mean, it wasn't as big. It wasn't as like, you know. No, I know. Yeah. It's a thing now. It's like everybody is. Yeah. I said it. I said it. I said welcome aboard. Yeah. I mean, welcome aboard. The only thing that is annoying is that I do want to go to game six. Yes. And I do not know how that is going to happen unless I pay a million dollars. Yeah. So I am going to be out of town for the first four games. I feel like you're connected. You got friends. I don't really mean. Shout out to Andrew from the Infatuation. Did you see what he did? No.

18:26He works for Chase. They had a Chase plane. And they took like New York Nico, Kid Mero, like all these like Knicks super fans to Cleveland. And they had Stephon Marbury doing like the announcement. Oh, shout out to him. He's doing it well. If I had any hookup, it would be, you know, potentially through him. But it's not even close. Like, I mean, I'm probably in the second or third tier. We went to a game once together.

18:53Kevin:But like, I mean, second or third tier is pretty good. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people in that first or second tier. I feel like you got to pull out all the stops. You know, I mean, listen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he works for Chase and Knicks and Chase have a great partnership and he's he's a dire fan. He's been going to away games. He went to away games last year. Yeah. Like in the playoffs. I'm curious to see what those tickets are going to run. I know exactly what they're going to run. What? They're two, three and four thousand dollars to just get into the building for games. Three games, three, four and six.

Read the full transcript

19:23That's the gone rates. Not that I've been looking. Yeah. I mean, that's rough. But to see the next win an NBA championship in my lifetime in the Garden. Listen, I've been there. Priceless. Yeah. Priceless. But yeah, we won't be in the streets because side talk ruined it.

19:39Kevin:Oh, do you think it was side talk who ruined it? I think it's just the internet culture that ruined it. I think people are just trying to be the craziest they could possibly be on camera. And I think that is going to shut that shit down. Yeah. It's tough. Everyone wants their moment. Everyone wants to be part of it. Do you see Timmy literally just on the court, basically part of the celebration last night, which I think being Timothee Chalamet at this moment, there's been some talk about this online. One, one, right? The coolest guy. Yeah, it's pretty cool. He's the biggest actor, famous person in the world.

20:13Yeah, he's living a good life. He's dating Kylie Jenner. Salute to him for living a good life. He's sitting courtside every game, friends with all the players, basically king in New York, not named Jalen Brunson. Yeah. It's pretty good. it's pretty good to be timothy chalmeh i did like that clip where he went up to mccall bridges like you're the goat he's like i got your jersey at home he just like just this is like a total fan just a total fan which i love that you know he's awesome he's not playing it cool at all no no but he's there uh and he's he's killing it and you know he's kind of the new spike so uh can i jump on the bandwagon yeah welcome you i mean here's the thing kevin you got a guy i said it like you

20:51Kevin:I said it two years ago. I said I'm a Knicks enjoyer. Yeah. I renounced my haterism and I said I'm a Knicks enjoyer. You are. And I would never consider myself to be a real New York Knicks fan. That's fair. That's fair. You can enjoy it. You can enjoy it. Enjoy it. Deuce McBride, you went to high school together, right? Wow. We were a couple years apart. Yeah. That's close enough. That's close enough. I mean, that's reason enough. I think that gives you enough. Every time I see Deuce McBride, I'm like, that's Kevin Smith. That's my boy. That's your boy. And he's been playing okay. He's a part of the eight-man, nine-man rotation.

21:24I mean, he's getting in there. He's in there. He's getting minutes. And you know what? He'll have his moments. I think if this team is to actually win a championship, it'll be because of him for sure. Everyone plays a role. Yeah, but he actually plays a meaningful role. It's not like Tyler Kolick where he's only coming in and the fourth quarter wants to blow at it. We're not winning because of Tyler Kolick.

21:42Kevin:Yeah, but you can buy Tyler Kolick's jersey on freaking Fanatics. Yeah, you can buy the Nike version of that. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see. I've been... I think you should do it. I've been thinking about getting the jersey, but I don't know. Yeah. What do you think of the hat? Did you see the hat, the finals hat? I didn't see the finals hat. It was kind of cool. I liked it. I mean, I don't know if... It almost got me to buy it, but I don't think... I don't know that I need that Knicks finals hat, but maybe I do. Maybe I do. I don't know. It's exciting. I mean, it's exciting. It's an exciting time.

22:15Kevin:But you know what would be a better hat? NBA final. NBA champs. I mean, that's the thing. I mean, you run the risk of wearing a final side for a team that did not win the championship. Or you can always fight later. But you know what? It's just a great time to be alive. It's a great time to be here in New York, the greatest city in the world. Sun is shining. Knicks just swept two series in a row. That's what happened. We haven't 11 games in a row. We haven't fucking lost a game in weeks. That's great. But not the only sports event that happened this week, Kevin. Were you watching the enhanced games?

22:47Kevin:I was not watching the enhanced games. Yeah, me neither. I saw some things online. I was going to, my strategy with the enhanced games is I'll catch the clips online. Yeah, I think it's definitely. And they were like, I think they were like two clips. There was that one viral meme of the guy in a swimsuit that looked so jacked. But I think that's from like a previous. I mean, they all, they're going to look like that every time. Yeah. But I think the viral one is from the first go at it. Okay. So that's not even a guy that competed. I mean, he probably competed again. He probably looks the same.

23:22Kevin:He probably is all juiced up and shit. Yeah. But looking juiced up and whatnot in your swimming. I don't even know what that is. Yeah. Yeah. Your full body swimsuit. You look crazy. Yeah. I mean, the visual was cool. I think the games themselves fell short. From what I saw online, it just didn't really... It's hard to launch a sports franchise. I mean, it's not a... From what I know, it's a... A league, I guess. It's a promotional thing for a pharmaceutical company that they will be launching. Okay. To push... And yeah, whatever. Say what you will about the PEDs or whatever. They're a thing. And I think if people want to enjoy them, do it safely.

24:11Kevin:I think they are kind of gearing up to launch that. Products. Products. Enhance products. Well, like TRT and peptide. I don't know. Whatever. I don't juice. I don't know what these things are. But you could be convinced. I'm beating the juicing allegations. Yeah, Kevin. I was going to say something. I actually could not be convinced. Yeah. I'm still on creatine, so I'm juicing. That's not juicing. I think if it's a promotional vehicle for products to be launched at a later date, then And that does change the sort of way in which I review this because then it's decent advertising. Well, yeah, but then it's like only one person was able to break a world record.

24:49Kevin:Well, that is a major problem. Yes. Because they had non-enhanced athletes. Why would they do that? I guess they just want to. Well, because they're like, they don't have to take them. You know, you don't have to. But it's the enhanced games. Well, it's kind of weird if you're like, oh, you have to take steroids to compete. That is a little strange. This whole thing is strange, though. Yeah, it's definitely strange. but like yeah I kind of like it you get a little baseline and like it's cool and these like they said there was four uh athletes who are uh unenhanced unenhanced Fred Curley was one of the four and he won the 100 meter race but didn't break a record yeah so it's like I don't I don't know it just doesn't carry this like in the hoopla that I think yeah it's hard we all want to see him break records and stuff I mean yeah that that uh I saw um whoever there was some guy trying to deadlift like 516 kilograms or something he fell short yeah okay i didn't see any lifting i didn't see enough of this yeah he didn't get it but you know i guess you just gotta juice harder i get these people need to be yeah the juice if you juice and then you lose to a non-enhanced athlete you know that's pretty tough you gotta go back to drawing board it's a tough look i don't i think it was a it was a very tough look because i did i saw something from polymarket that said uh So the stocks went down considerably post-enhanced games.

26:07Yeah. I saw they had my boy Brian Johnson out there. Did you see that? Oh, really? Yeah. He was doing some live reporting on the scene. Yeah.

26:14Kevin:They're rolling out all those guys. I feel like Peter Thiel is really trying to push this. Yeah. Optimization. Transhumanism. Yeah. Optimization type shit. It's very 2026. I mean, I like to see Brian Johnson out there. He had an umbrella, which I appreciate it because the sun is the number one killer for aging. The whitest guy ever. Yeah. 90 % of skin aging comes from the sun. So he is, you know, he's out there. He's out there. You know what? He needs a sunscreen partnership. That's what he should be doing. But yeah, he had an umbrella. He was, you know, doing his Brian Johnson thing. So good for him.

26:45Kevin:Good for him. I'll say this. Good for everybody involved. Is it? Is it good for everybody involved? Yeah, of course. I think if you want to do steroids and go for, you know, if you want to do steroids and climb the ladder and try to reach the pinnacle of human performance, I think go ahead. I think whatever. I'm not going to stand in your way. Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think we should stop these people. You know what? In my head, it's kind of like one of those things that's been like a joke online. It's like there should be an Olympics where only people that take steroids perform or whatever compete.

27:17And then it actually happened and you're like, does anyone care? I think that's also a reflection of culture and just how hard it is to compete with so much going on. just in the landscape of Spencer Pratt and fucking Stephen Colbert and the Knicks. And there's just like so much shit is happening. What's going on with Stephen Colbert? Oh, he had his last show. That was a big story, whatever. You know what I mean? Just like there's just stories everywhere. And every day it's like news stories. They come and go like this. In my head, I was like, oh, man, the NBA finals are happening. Maybe they should have waited.

27:50But then the World Cup is happening, apparently. So it's like there's just never a good time for the enhanced games. But you hit see it. But it's a thing. Speaking of enhancing and optimization, David launched tin fish. Did you see this? This is cod 2.0. Yeah. Which I think we talked about on the show.

28:10Kevin:We talked about 1.0 for sure. Last year, David launched cod. It was actually frozen fillets in a bag. And the story there is basically the only thing that has more protein per capita is cod, more than David Barr. and so to illustrate this to communicate this to celebrate this they launched actual cod which i remember thinking was very smart and the ads look cool and shout out to day job they do all that stuff logistically maybe not the best and maybe not the easiest thing to do you know ship cod across the country in the summer yep and they learned from that mistake and they're back with cod 2.0 and this time uh it's a can't i think it's kind of sick to be honest this is this is pretty cool yeah i mean it works just as well if not better than the original one yeah 100 i think i wonder if they would have launched this first would it have created as much enthusiasm or probably not no so i think this actually worked really well for them where they kind of had the big pop from the first car yeah it took a shot and then settled in and then they kind of settle in i don't know if their goal is to sell a lot of this but maybe i mean i i think this is i think this is a pretty valid uh you know extension for them yeah i mean people love tinned fish yeah um andrea from snack shots said it's fish wife for for guys yeah i've not had fish wife but i i'm not a big tinned fish guy i'm not against it but i'm an aspiring tinned fish guy okay well kevin we gotta get you some of this i like the packaging and i also like the way in which they rolled it out it was very apple inspired yeah it's beautiful yeah they had i think they did they do a keynote or some sort of fake keynote, some sort of announcement type thing that felt Apple inspired.

29:54I mean, that's an idea that I feel like a lot of brands have attempted. But it worked. It worked. I think it well-executed concept, packaging, rollout. It just is the same idea as last time, just better executed.

30:10Kevin:They're a protein company. They are a protein company. And Cod has a lot of protein. Yeah. Made a lot of noise this week too. David, David's having a huge week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm back on my David Bar shit. Oh, yeah. I've been eating a couple of them. Are you back on your David Bar shit? I am. Loose stools? Yeah, you know, I'm trying to get those stools out. So, you know, may as well enhance the operations. Yeah, the other story from David is ice cream, which they had teased at Expo West. Oh, God, who knows when that was. They had the truck. They had the truck, and you liked the cow. Oh, the ripped cow.

30:44Kevin:Yeah, I love the ripped cow. Yeah, but I guess this is rolling out, but they're still teasing it because they had Bella Hadid in Cannes eating David ice cream on a yacht. Wow. Which, great move. Love to see that. I wonder how much you have to pay someone to eat your product on a yacht as promotion, but it worked. Yeah. Speaking of breaking through, you know. I'm interested. I'm intrigued. Did you see, speaking of, did you see Tom Holland drinking beer at a soccer match in Miami? me that got a lot of play but um yeah bella hadid eating ice cream on and out wow great promo this is how you launch brands in 2026 which to be honest it worked uh one thing i noticed they switched the packaging we're a design podcast we should talk about that they switched the packaging yeah it was black the the the packaging was black oh when they launched it at x or that when the teaser happened at Expo West.

31:39Now the new version is gold.

31:42Kevin:Must be a systematic thing. I wonder what if Ryan and the crew at Dayjob had something to say about that. Certainly someone was thinking about that. Probably the right move to tie it to the bars, I would imagine. Because it's a different shelf. It's going to be in the freezer. Very far from the David bars. You probably want to tie that brand back. The gold is sort of their color. I don't know. I'm interested to try it. I hope I've not had a lot of success personally with sort of alternative ice cream. I think it's like a it's like a totally like a mindset thing. Like, yeah, you know, I've enjoyed, you know, I've enjoyed some Halo Top in my day.

32:26Kevin:But yeah, you know, going back to it. Absolutely not. You know, like it was a time and a place for me where it was doing the job. Yeah. I guess the question I have is, when is it coming out? Because we were teasing in March. Now we're teasing in May. When are we hitting bodegas? And I think that's probably... I hope that should be soon, but I'm looking forward to it and I certainly would like to try it. First four flavors are chocolate cookie dough, cookies and cream and triple peanut butter. I could go for some triple peanut butter. Listen, I'm down. It's giving Halo Top, which I I think, oh, they were gold.

33:04Remember they had the gold rims. So yeah, maybe that's intentional. Maybe that's why they didn't want to do it at first. But yeah. Who's to say?

33:13Kevin:I don't know. It's tough. I've been trying some of these viral, maybe not so much viral, but I've been looking into some alternative desserts, stuff with like, let's say yogurt, egg, cocoa powder, maple syrup, a little flour. They look great on reels. and then when you make them, not so much. What? Wait, you're telling me that those people on TikTok are eating them and saying, mmm, so delicious, and it's not, mmm, so delicious? Yeah, sometimes it's even like a different, entirely different texture and consistency than they do. But my bar for this thing is like, is this better than my yogurt parfait?

33:53Kevin:This is better than my Greek yogurt with maple syrup, a little crushed walnuts, maybe some cocoa powder. Is it better than this? and there will be less calories and more protein. I don't know. I guess we're going to have to see. Yeah. For me, ice cream falls into the category that I put bagels, which is like if you're going to have – if you want a bagel, eat a bagel, and you just kind of have to deal with the fact that it is – yeah, it's high in carbs and sugar, and that's kind of the thing. With ice cream, I'm like if I really want ice cream, which isn't all the time, but it's like I'm going to go for Haagen-Dazs and I kind of just don't want to settle in any way.

34:33Kevin:What about like frozen yogurt? There's a big frozen yogurt kick right now going on in New York City. Oh. Lines. I know. I mean, this happens every 10 years, I feel like, with the frozen yogurt, the pink berry, and now like the high-end version. I used to live by culture, which is – It's popping. Dude, I used to order that shit all the time. Shamefully, I waited in line. No. This weekend? No, no, no, not this weekend. okay uh what do you think two weekends ago i mean it was good i was i was uh i was happy that i ate it or whatever like i wasn't happy to stay in line i actually felt quite ashamed of myself because winning line it's very it's very out of character for me but yeah you know it was just like a situation where we got we rolled up and you know there's probably like a 15 minute line it wasn't all that bad 15 minutes is doable you know we rolled up and i was like i was already hungry and i was like you know daddy needs some yogurt and so like culture i was like yeah there's there's no way i'm walking away i'm like there's no way i'm like you know gonna continue on the day without any food or anything so it's like we're there it was the time of the place and you know yeah i was i was just a little i was ashamed yeah waiting in line but it was pretty good you know it's good definitely not worth waiting in line i'm not gonna yeah would not do it again but during covid and like when i lived uh by a culture that would deliver to me i i mean i was i was rocking the show all the time it's cool to see that now it's like it's gone viral or it's gone like it hit like tiktok super masses of like this is a must-have yeah it's like though it's like i think it's probably like one of the worst lines in the city now really i waited for a long time against his nick's uh watch party last night i think that's all the way down the block yeah i mean it was valid because like it got in by tip off and like i waited from probably about from like seven to eight.

36:20I probably waited for a full hour. And it was, yeah. I mean, the streets are... You gotta do what you gotta do here. You gotta wait in line if you really want something. A lot of people out here. Yeah, there's people out here. And I think sometimes waiting in line, you're like, oh, this is gonna be good. And it was good for me in the next watch party. Review on the yogurt? Good. Pretty good. Pretty good, right? Kevin, people are big mad online about Spotify. This happened probably about a week ago. Not online on

36:45Kevin:LinkedIn. I mean, that's online. That's... that's, uh, yeah, people don't like change. I think we've, uh, well documented here, but Spotify, uh, launched a new app icon to celebrate 20 years, uh, which seems insane to me that they've been a business for 20 years. Spotify. Yeah, I guess so. And so to celebrate, they, uh, did, uh, some sort of wrapped 20 year thing, but the main thing that is, uh, getting people all up in their fields is the icon one from a flat, whatever weird circle with three lines in it to a disco ball with three lines in it. And two shines. Yeah. People are saying that there's two shines.

37:29Kevin:People are saying like, this is like one of the worst branding moves of all time. You know, why, why are people so mad about it? I mean, I will say when you pull up your, when you pull up your phone and you're used to an icon looking some way and then it changes it is it's it's off-putting yeah I think that's the thing that I can understand here it's a little bit like what's going on here it's a little bit duller than the current one because the main one is is like a bright neon yeah and this is like even though it's a disco ball it's kind of a dark green disco ball it's an odd choice for the color yeah of the disco ball and I think this sort of fake shine on it is a bit weird yeah i've been having some uh storage issues on my on my phone so i've been having to offload apps okay and so when i first saw this i was like dang is my spotify not downloaded okay and i clicked into it and it was fine yeah that was about the extent of the uh you know the issue i had with it and then it's just like oh okay yeah it's it's just like a different icon i don't know like i didn't it's not it's not that big of a deal i don't know i don't know i don't big deal is to be honest i mean i have to say this is such a cop-out answer but i do feel like this isn't gonna hurt the brand at all i think people have now only talked about the brand more i think it's brought attention to the fact that they are celebrating 20 years i think it's just a temporary app icon change so everybody calm down i think it's still on my phone though so i kind of think it's time to go yeah but i i would say perhaps i mean i feel like and we'd say this on the show a lot, but it's like rage bait or getting people talking.

39:16It works. We had Max on from Ragged Edge talk about the granola change. And that's a branding change. That's a big difference between this and a sort of limited run of a new app icon. But yeah, I mean, it gets people probably downloading and it gets people to sort of just because it breaks up the familiarity that people have with that icon. It's like Sure. Yeah. I think I predict that this will now happen more often.

39:48Kevin:Yeah. Just piss people off. Yeah. Get the people talking to LinkedIn. Yeah. And they get people making their own versions. I've seen like people taking it. This is what I would have done. Yeah. I would have made it brighter. I would have made one shine instead of two shines. And then it just gets the people going. Whatever. Who cares? So did you look at any of your Spotify reps? I didn't know. What was yours? I mean the one that I got pulled up right here It has my first song Ever? First song I ever listened to on Spotify It's a wild card No but they did have a playlist of your top songs ever And it was riddled It was just like full of Outkast and Danny Brown And like shit like that The first song ever is So Much To Say by Dave Matthews Band And I'm pretty sure Hell yeah Kevin Hell yeah.

40:40Kevin:It brings me back. So much to say. It brings me back to why I think I downloaded Spotify in the first place. Okay. Which is I was going to a Dave Matthews Band concert. Who are these guys? No, I knew who they were. I was like, yeah, let me get into a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was nowhere for me to listen to this music. And I was like, oh, Spotify. Okay. Yeah. Hell yeah. Kevin, I know we don't do the outro music, but can we please just put a little bit of so much to say at the end of the show? Sure. Please. I'm sure Dave I'm sure Dave I'm sure Dave will be cool with it yeah that rocks dude I I'm I haven't looked at mine so now I'm intrigued you got me interested which again is the whole point of this thing I didn't know it was connected to a wrapped I've been you know busy yeah it was we love seeing our data oh we yeah this is like hey I heard you like your your data what if we showed you your lifetime data yeah give me the data give me more of my data please and so yeah I gotta check this out but yeah if you want people to get mad change your logo.

41:39But they're not doing it forever. They're just doing it for a minute. And I guess, I just don't understand why. You've got to have something better to do with your lives and to get mad about this on LinkedIn. You have to. You have to have something more fulfilling out there in your day-to-day life than to write. If you wrote 500 words or 1 ,000 words about this, that is 1 ,000 too many words. Yeah, it's more too many words. But how do you feel about the new Threads logo? I hate it.

42:07Kevin:I, this is news to me. I didn't even, I thought I forgot about threads. I wasn't even aware of still doing that. Yeah. Sometimes I'll click it. Cause you know, on Instagram, they'll like, they'll be like, you might care about this thread. Oh yeah. And then I'll get me locked into a thread by accident. And then I'm there. Oh, I always click it. I'm always like, I click the thread. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I, and I immediately exit out. Yeah. You know, I close out the app. I said, no, I do not want to look at this. The algorithm for threads is interesting because I feel like whatever you're interested in, whether it be the New York Knicks or Summer House, it just is feeding you so many tweets or threads about that topic that it's like, how is every thread about this one single thing?

42:50And granted, I do care about that thing, but it's like it doesn't feel like there's any diversity or variety of what the topics are. It's just like, oh, you clicked on this one thing about the Knicks, and now I'm going to show you 100 threads about the Knicks. They must have some data that says that that's what people want.

43:04Kevin:Well, I guess it's better than Twitter's algorithm. I can't even use it anymore. It's rough out there. It's like, what is even going on? I know. It's truly insane. She's pushing ideologies and porn. Yeah. It feels like it's mostly porn. Death videos. It's crazy. I don't know. I can't even go on anymore. As a person who loves, admittedly, I do like to go to the edges of these things. I'm not there for it anymore. Yeah, it's hard. It's really tough. I mean, I just went on Twitter to see what they're going to talk to me about, but they're talking about Knicks tickets, and they're showing me pictures of Timothy Chalamet sneaking vodka into the stadium.

43:43That's tight. Good for him. That's, I mean, legend, and just genuinely, it's such a beautiful time. You know, Kevin, do you know what the best part about rooting for a team that just always wins? What do you mean always wins? I mean, just no. It's like always winning this month. They're hot, yeah. It's just like every time I'm thinking about something else or anything goes on that's like, oh, it's stressful or I got to worry about this or I got something related to something else, I'll just be reminded of the Knicks. And then just an instant smile goes on my face. That's good. And then last night just watching all the videos, my whole feed is filled with just so much stuff and content.

44:27Just feed it to my veins. Give it to me all. because this moment's not going to last, good or bad. It's a temporary moment in time. This too shall pass. And to be honest, I hope it never ends. And I get nine days off just to enjoy, but it's going to be tough. You know, this is the hand that was dealt. And it's so beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful day.

44:51Kevin:Yeah. Speaking about a beautiful thing. Did you see those beans? We're going? Yeah. Yeah. This is your Knicks championship. Yeah. Flavored beans. Yeah. So what's the story here? I didn't really - So Bush's. In honor of Memorial Day weekend and cooking out, Bush's Beans is the official beans of grilling. Yeah. They launched an influencer pack of dill pickle flavored baked beans, rocket pop baked beans, and apple pie baked beans for a limited edition. And they already sold out. So - Yeah. We can't even get them. We can't even try them. The pickle one scene. That's for you, Kevin. This is right up your alley.

45:33This is like Kevin coated. It's like I've never seen a launch. So Kevin coated the rocket one. That seems disgusting. I'm just rocket pop. Yeah. Rocket pop.

45:43Kevin:I don't know. I mean, you get like sweet beans. I feel like beans, beans and like sweet. I mean, maybe maybe you're right. I think they go together like a little raspberry, a little blueberry. I think it hit. I think it tracks. Can I tell you last night? this watch party was at pig beach in Queens, which is a barbecue spot. Yeah. I did have some brisket and I did have some good, some smoked wings and I did have some mac and cheese. I did have some collard greens and I did have some smoked turkey. Did you have some baked beans? I didn't have any baked beans. Uh, that was, that was where I drew the line.

46:12Uh, you know, you gotta stop, you know, there's gotta be some, some, some decorum. Listen, I'm here for, I'm here for Brad.

46:18Kevin:I think, I think Bush's beans is a great brand of doing there. Nobody else is doing it like Bush's beans right now. Um, yeah, no one's doing it like them. RIP Kyle Busch. He passed away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's sad. Yeah. Truly too young, too young. But Kevin, I think that's the show. I mean, that is our show. It's great to see you and it's great to be back. Shout out to London. Shout out to Belfast and Hamburg. I'll see you guys next week. Yeah. Watch the Knicks with them. We have some good shows coming up. Oh, yeah. We have some good interviews, some good shows. Last week's show was one of my favorites.

46:53I actually had some people in London come up to me and be like, Like, hey, Jason Liebig, great pod. I know. And those people are right. So if you are listening to the show and you got to the end of this episode and you have not watched the Jason Liebig interview on YouTube, which is how you need to consume that particular episode, because you can listen to it, but you need to see the packaging that

47:13Kevin:he brought in. That is one of my all-time favorite episodes. Yeah. It just is one of the best that we've done. He's an absolute legend, and I'm so glad that people are enjoying it. Yeah. we'll probably even continue to promo that one. We should, we should keep pushing it. I got, I got a couple, I got like two, one or two clips. I didn't even, I wasn't even able to get to last week. So yeah, we should go watch that pod and shout out to all the new listeners. Shout out to everyone. That's a, that's finding us out. Oh, Oh, we're going to Montreal. Should we talk about that? Are we talking about, let's talk about that.

47:43It's in a while. Yeah. We'll talk about it soon, but we're doing a live show at a forum. So Nick's for clicks. Nick's for clicks. Peace.

48:03I say my hell is the closet, I'm stuck inside, can't see the light, and my heaven is a nice

48:14Kevin:house in the sky, got central heat down, and I'm alright. Yeah, yeah, yeah Can't see the light Keep it locked up inside Don't talk about it Talk about the weather Yeah, yeah, yeah Can't see the light Open up my head Don't let me out A little baby Cause here we haven't Stamming for a long, long time

49:01Kevin:Shredding, trotting trails For a long, long time I say my hell is the closet I'm stuck inside Can't see the light In my heaven is a nice house in the sky Got central heating And I'm alright Say we haven't standin' for a long, long time

49:34Shreddin', tridin' trails for a long, long time Time, time, time, time, time, time

49:43Kevin:I find sometimes it's easy to be myself Sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else I see you young and soft, oh little baby Little feet, little hands, little feet, little baby One year of crying and the words beep up inside Peeping to your mind, yeah So much to say, so much to say So much to say, so much to say So much to say, so much to say So much to say, so much to say Cause yeah, we haven't spent for a long, long time

50:44Kevin:Shredding, triding trails for a long, long time Time, time, time, time, time, time, time I find Sometimes it's easy to be myself Sometimes I find it so bad I go by somebody else

51:36So much to say

51:40Kevin:So much to say So much to say So much to say Open up my head And let me out Baby

From the publisher

Alex and Kevin are back in the studio to talk about the hottest topics in design and branding (the New York Knicks). We circle back many times on the Knicks, as Alex is very excited (AS HE SHOULD BE!) about his favorite team advancing to the finals for the first time this millennium! Alex recaps his time in London, judging the D&AD awards before going into Iceman, Travis Kelce and Taylor Swift, The Enhanced Games, David’s Tinned Fish and Ice Cream, Spotify’s disco ball ‘blunder’, Threads’ new logo, Bush’s summer beans, and more!


More from Front and Center

All 134 episodes
KNICKS FOR CLICKSFront and Center · 52 min
Listen in VO