SEA MONSTERS: With John Lee and Jiae Kim

28:10BMs? Yeah. Brand managers. Oh, I thought you were talking about bowel movements. Oh, I didn't even get that. See, I'm so deep in CPG. I wouldn't even get that. And I have kids. So characters, in terms of the other designs, do they all have characters? Or how influenced by Pokemon are these characters? Because they feel adjacent, obviously, not the same. But it feels like maybe there was influence. There might have been a little bit of influence. But I think the idea is to have a group of really interesting characters that represent the brand. And each of the characters have very disparate, maybe not disparate, but very distinct personalities.

28:48And they're all super interesting, really different. And I have to say, a little bit fallible. They're not perfect creatures. Not perfect. And I think that was really important to us when we were creating the characters. Because like all of us, those characters shouldn't be perfect. We didn't want saccharine sweet, perfect little characters. Stan Chin, that's the embodiment of our 15-year-old kid. He's 15 and he's a grouch. He can be a pain in the ass sometimes. And, oh, sorry, Sinjin. Don't listen to this. No, I think it's not anything he hasn't heard from us. And then Pep, the little starfish character, he's like the embodiment of FOMO.

29:30We just tried the spicy Korean barbecue. That is a hit with the adults.

29:38It's really spicy for the younger side. So John says, you know, John and I say that like the sour cream and onion, The cheese pizza is PG-13. And the sweet chili and the spicy Korean barbecue is like, you know, the adult. The 17 and over. That checks out. We're finding that with certain retailers like Dash Mart, they have stores. They stock us in stores that are next to maybe colleges or urban centers. We're really hitting a home run with the spicy Korean barbecue because I have a feeling. I don't know the demographic data yet, but I think it's 17 and older, you know, like college kids. Yeah. We're probably drinking beer and eating sea monsters.

30:19So we like it as a snack at night when we want to relax with a beverage. But we also want to make sure we have enough flavors for the younger set because it's pretty appealing to kids. Yeah, for sure. But I don't think Kevin Lyon's characters are kids only. I think like a certain kind of like urban designer, kid, you know, teenager, millennial, adult maybe even appreciates like the sort of urbanness of the it's like, you know, it's like urban art. Yeah. And we talk about mascots a lot because it's kind of a sort of a I won't say sort of old school, but it's, you know, it's sort of a more traditional kind of approach.

30:56I think at times, you know, kind of thinking about like Tony the Tiger and like the peanut man and Pillsbury Doughboy, all those kind of characters that I grew up with. And it's like it brings some playfulness. And I think I'm a fun to brands that I don't know, like kettle chips or these other brands. I don't know what their story is. They make good products and I enjoy them. And if I'm going to get a turkey sandwich, they're great. But I do this particular product right here is incredible. This this this one. And I think for those people that do have that kind of nostalgia towards, you know, products or characters and things like that, it's, it's a fun little layer and I think it gives more story.

31:34And I think that's kind of what I love about the website and kind of unpacking all those characters and sort of, yeah, kind of hearing more of their backstories and what they're, you know, what they're inspired by. Yeah. So are there any other characters that are inspired by people in your life? Uh, you know, the seaweed hippie, I don't know if he, look, he's in the group shot kind of shady guy in the back. That's kind of like me sometimes, like if I'm like, if I don't want to speak. Hide behind his hair. Hide behind my hair. You know, we worked on a couple of other characters that aren't on the packaging as well.

32:07And, you know, we feel are also part of the family. I think it's all about the narrative, right? Like, you know, how is this sort of disparate group of characters like, you know, living in this wonderful sort of organic family of, you know, just fun? They're like a little gang. Yeah, you guys should do like, you know, sort of a content series of characters, of illustrations, of stories, you know? Trust me, we've gone there, but we're like, okay, puffs first, puffs first. Yeah, puffs first. We sell the products. And so how has it been, you know, kind of like running a CPG company, dealing with like, you know, now you got to deal with like retail partners and distribution and, you know, sort of.

32:50We could do that, this one for a whole day. Oh, my God. I will tell you, like John and I, so we went on vacation. We took a long one because we need to see his family in New Zealand. We haven't seen them since post-COVID. Hi, Mom. So we've been, like we were away for a good 18 days, like in the middle of launching our brand no no time is a good time so we're like we're gonna do it we're gonna work on the road pre-leaving i was having so much fun i was like oh this is a whole new industry like i'm learning all this yeah we were in a groove right yeah we were in such a group and then we came back and after losing 18 days although we technically worked i was like oh my god it's chaos it's so stressful but um i have to say like if i had known and i was john and i were talking about this on the way here if i had known the sort of pressure points that our clients had on the business side of things on the sales side of things as a creative agency helping them out yeah i would have approached the design work differently super fascinating um and i wish and i don't know that they can because as john noted like once a company gets big enough everybody's siloed right marketing is siloed sure sales sales is siloed from operation yeah no it's it's it's got a little heat it's kind of got a little kick that's the way i like it yeah uh so so yeah so if if you had a little bit more visibility into the different divisions i think you would you would really fully appreciate what you need to deliver as a creative agency instead what you think exactly you need to deliver so as a someone who is married to an entrepreneur who you know sort of uh runs a product company it's true i always say i go home and i hear about cogs and supply chain and distribution and retail and sort of, uh, you know, uh, Facebook ads and all that kind of world.

34:35And it does give me a little bit more perspective to the fact that like we get to do the fun part around here. Yeah. Right. And I think it's funny, like there's a, like they always say that like all rappers want to be athletes and all athletes want to be rappers. I think it's a similar thing. It's like all designers want to be like business owners and all business owners are like, I want to be you guys. Like I just want to be the design guys. So I think it's, you know, grass is always greener, but I do think there's fun things about both sides. Do you guys miss the creative making of design work or clients or not at all?

35:10I miss the good clients. The good clients were fun when we had a tight brave, a client that trusted us. We only have good clients here. Oh, you're lucky. At Center Studio. At Center Design Studio LLC, we only have good clients. The best. For sure. For sure. Absolutely. Yes. That's to all the cameras and to all the clients. And I will backtrack by saying at Emmett, we had mostly good clients. You want to put any of the bad ones on blast? Do you want to talk about the bad ones? Well, the bad ones we fired. We were very clear because it was so expensive, the amount of handholding we had to do. Wow.

35:46Because it was mainly the two of us, I was like, this is actually costing me money in the long run. How do you do that? I've never done that before. Oh. Yeah. I'm scared of all of our clients. I give money back. Give money back. I'm very fair. I'm very fair. I'm like, here's your prorated money back. Very fair. Like, I only kept what I thought we used. That's a very problem for me. I never give money back, not a dime back. There's only a few cases. Only a few. A few bad apples. Yeah. Well, honestly, it's inspiring. And so congrats, obviously. You have an amazing product. And I always say I have a newfound respect for people, not just because of my wife, but also because of Center.

36:25like people who launch anything and put anything out into the world and like go from an idea in a notebook to hey we're gonna have a finished product that you can hold in your hand and get in the store it's like people really underestimate how hard that is also how much time it takes sometimes we'll get an entrepreneur they'll come to the studio and be like yeah we got this idea for a new drink we're thinking about launching it in the summer and they'll be like january you're not launching that shit like you have no idea but then you kind of have to say of course Of course. Center design. Yeah.

36:57We are the perfect partner for you. Because we have the experience and the knowledge that you're looking for. But yeah. Also, kudos to you guys for launching something that tastes really good. So there's a lot of new products, Kevin. And I try a lot of new stuff. Yeah. We're on the cutting edge of products. That's right. Yeah. We try them all. Do you get a lot of like, do you want to be equity partners? I mean, I don't. We can't afford you. I'm not here to disclose my equity partnerships, but I just want to say shout out to United Sodas of America. the best tasting soda on the planet uh what other brands i have equity in um uh i guess uh my my last question i want to get into some topics because we have some stuff that uh you know i think is uh is is fun to talk about this week and that's our show we kind of talk about what's going on uh i want to talk actually i have two more questions okay one what's it like significant other sort of being in sort of now it seems like multi-decade partnerships how do you guys go home and then like turn off the work?

37:59Cause to me, that would be the hardest part. My wife and I both run businesses and they're separate. And I think for us, as much as we both wind up talking to each other about the businesses, there's a little bit of a, like, that's your thing. That's my thing. And we kind of can separate a little bit. I feel as though if we were running the same business or, you know, partners, I don't know where we would ever not talk about work. How do you guys manage that? I don't know. Do you want to – well, John always has like a rosier picture than reality. I know. I'm always like – So he'll be like, it's great.

38:31Like we're just really like, you know, we're good about like, you know, communicating and my take. Okay, I'll go first. It's hard. Okay, good. You cover – there was another podcast we did when he gave this rosy picture. I don't know if it was because we had like a particularly good week and I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, yeah. Kidding me? I was like, that is not our reality. Yeah, come here and be honest. Right. I would say like we're really good at like or at least I am good about like throwing out what bothers me in real time. But I get over it in two seconds. Like I'll be like, oh, no, no, no.

39:04I didn't like that. And here's why. And John, I think, tends to like be more forgiving of all the bumps, whereas I don't. But I get over it. But John, I think the bumps accumulate. So then it comes a little heavier. It smolders. Yeah, it smolders. so my job is to actually no and my job is to like bring it up so it doesn't like blow up because he's like he's not as emotional or as effusive as I am but when he like loses it it's a little scary because it's so rare so good game maybe it's a guy versus no I'm not going to generalize like boys versus girls have you seen the Barbie movie? no but I want to because Greta Gerwig directed it I wouldn't do it any other way it's fantastic it's good?

39:47oh no okay it's good it's it's very good check it out i'm not about uh the dynamic of men and women oh but like in a fun way i didn't like their tagline what does the tagline i think the tagline was she does everything ken is just ken she's barbie and he's just or he does she does everything it implied that she was like this well-rounded person but he was just a dude like a guy and i was like i have two boys and i was like let's not do that i want them to aspire to be more than ken Well, luckily Ryan Gosling is here to save the day. He does? Okay, he rises to the occasion. Yeah, he represents all men beautifully.

40:23Last question, I guess. Noah. So you're wearing a Noah collab shirt. I'm a big fan of Noah, the brand. How did that happen? Talk to us about that. Because that is something I was, when I was doing my research, I was like, oh man, I don't, Noah does collabs here and there, but you know, with a CPG brand and snack space, that's pretty, that's pretty. Yeah. Our kids were hanging out together one day and, you know, we we we've met Brandon a couple of times. And then we just so happened to be in the same space and we were chatting and, you know, we all surfed as well. And, you know, we have common interests.

41:00And so he was like, oh, what is this thing that you're working on? So we sent him some some stuff and he was like, oh, this is great. You know, and then it just happened organically. we didn't it wasn't like we were pitching him or he just he just came to us and he was like hey let's do a collab originally he wanted to do it for j crew but then apparently it was like super hard moving this you know you know this huge j crew boat so he's like you know what let's just do it with noah and that's his that's his new job right j crew yeah i like the noah collab because i think you know noah to me still feels emerging even though it's probably been around for longer than I think it has, but it's, you know, to me, it's like, feels like we were talking about internally also, uh, Kevin and I just about how, you know, the brand does have, has some sort of street wear ish kind of, uh, feelings at times.

41:46And on the Instagram, it kind of feels like you guys celebrate, you know, the things that you guys are into. And so it makes sense and feels like, you know, maybe Noah's escape and surf brand. It makes more sense than J crew, which is, uh, I don't know. Clothes for white guys. I was going to say, I think it was very cool. Yeah, exactly. I mean, J.Crew Kids, I think, was the idea. Oh. Yeah. We wanted to do a kids collab. We did a beach cleanup at the time. And he was like, yeah, let's do beach cleanups around the country and stuff. So who knows? It might happen in the future. But we're working on some other things in the background.

42:21So hopefully that'll pop up as well. Amazing. Cool. Can you tell us a little bit about being a New York surfer? How does that work? Where do you go? It's hard. like january february march are probably the most the toughest part of the year are you guys out there and yeah and john hates the cold i love i really hate the cold love the plunge colds but march is usually the month when i'm like why the fuck am i doing this seriously yeah and he's like we're moving to costa rica we're moving to california i was like we're not doing either of those things um we're beholden to new york because our kids love it here and they can't imagine living anywhere else in the world.

43:00Amazing. And they go to school here in New York City? They do. And they have all this independence because in New York City, you could take subways. You don't have to wait for parents to drive you to your parties and hangs. That's pretty sick. You're raising really cool New York kids, aren't you? Well, I think they're going to be those kids. They think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they're a little too cool. I think they need a little like a reality check. This comes up on the show a lot. I'm from Long Island. So South Shore, Oceanside. So you got a different New York City. So I'm a New Yorker, but I'm not like a real cool, hip New York City kid.

43:34You're not downtown New York City kid. No, that's right. There's levels of it. And you're raising level 1A New Yorkers. They grow up on the subways and they just live cool lives and go see concerts and wear leather jackets at like 13, right? They do. They have expensive taste. I have to say, though, there's something about New York now. I actually think they're kind of soft New York City fans. It's not like 90s New York. Call them out. They're a little soft. I'm an immigrant. So is he. So we're not soft at all. We got battered pretty bad growing up. So when I look at them, I'm like, I don't know.

44:11Maybe we need to send you to middle America so you learn. I don't know. Maybe you get your hardness there because you're not getting in New York. New York is way too gentrified. That's crazy. Yeah, we need to send them back to early 90s New York. I know. That's what we need to do. Where does that exist? I don't know. Detroit. Yeah, Detroit. They'll send them to Detroit. Yeah, they're on TikTok and like, you know, they're doing dances outside of, you know, brunch places. No, no. No, that's not it. Go smoke cigarettes and listen to punk music. Go do something a little scary and a little dodgy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:45Now we have like really like open conversations with our 50, which I love, but I'm like, wait, this is like wrong. I shouldn't be talking to him about how it's okay to try weed as long as the source is, you know, you know the source to make sure it doesn't have fentanyl. I was like, yeah. And I'm constantly having to turn down my music because I'm like, you know, when I'm by myself, I'm listening to punk rock. Yeah. And they don't like it. And they don't like it. They're like, yeah, it's kind of crazy. Yeah. What do they listen to? They listen to hip hop. Yeah. Well, the older one. Well, he listens to like Brazilian funk too.

45:17Yeah, that's a new thing now. He's the coolest kids I've ever heard. And then what does he listen to when he like works out? He has like a - Oh, like Biofunky or whatever, the Brazilian fog. Yeah, I was like, where did you learn this? And of course, what do you think? TikTok. Yeah, these kids sound way cooler than us, Kevin. I'm going to be honest. Maybe you should have them. I was going to say, can we come on the book? Sure. Next week? Yeah. Well, thank you guys. It's super exciting to hear all about that and congrats and yeah, wish you guys all the best. Honestly, the product is outstanding and so if you like pops or just honestly any snack, any new flavors coming out or is that, you know, something you're working on?

45:55Round out the characters. You got more characters. We got more characters. We are working on some new flavors. I think we might do some like quick hit ones. Like there's a super spicy one that I don't know, we might be in trouble if we release, but we might try it. There's like a million flavors we want to do, but our sales team and ops team, they're like, okay guys, we just launched. But I think it would be interesting to do a collab with maybe, I don't know. With Center maybe. We're ready, we're ready. If I've learned anything from this podcast, the weirder the flavors are, the more people will talk about it.

46:29I think so. Doesn't drive maybe sales velocity, but it's good marketing tactics. It's great. It's Nathan Fielder. That's the Nathan Fielder approach. Yeah. Just make it weird and make it bizarre, and then people talk about it. They probably will never try it, but they'll be intrigued by it. But actually, that's a good segue. We have a first topic, which is mustard Skittles. I think French's has been very active in the collab space. Mustard sea monsters. it wouldn't be too far from that i've also been desensitized to like weird flavor like when they did mustard ice cream yeah i was like whoa this is crazy and then they did like mustard oreos and i was like oh this is weird but now i'm like oh mustard skittles sure do you have you tried them never tried a single one of those yeah because i really want to see what that feels like as a or tastes like as a flavor because what the skittles yeah all of it yeah what is a mustard.

47:20Is it just the color or does it have the flavor? Allegedly, it's the flavor. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I would be, I was very interested in trying the mustard ice cream. Oh, we did try the mustard ice cream. No, we tried the Grey Poupon. It's all coming together. Grey Poupon also did it? Yeah, they did it with Van Leeuwen. Yeah. Oh. Did it taste good? It was good. It was pretty good. It was good. I don't think any of them are better than chocolate or vanilla. To your point, it's going to be weird. It's going to get people talking to it. It's like, I don't know if everyone's come back to the store to buy those products.

47:52I think it's a limited edition play. Yeah, for sure. I think like, you know, French's, is it French's mustard? I can't even remember. It is French's mustard. They get like this amazing opportunity to take their yellow branding and carry it across like other very sort of pop art looking brands. So I think they get like this incredible like visual asset they wouldn't get. like how many times can you do mustard as a I don't know as a marketing like visual collateral piece right but you get it with skittles and I looked at all the the photos that they took and I'm like oh that's a handsome like promo like you know feed I can see it in social media I can see it like you know in write-ups but again like and then for skittles I guess that cross I'm assuming they're getting something out of the deal too because they already have a good looking, like bright, poppy packaging.

48:43I guess it's a surprise and delight factor. Maybe. I mean, it definitely gets people talking about what we're talking about. That's literally what we say every week. It's like, yeah, it gets people talking. We're talking about it. Right. Look it up. Yeah, exactly. Sriracha and Skittles next. Oh my God. That would be great. What happened to Sriracha? Oh, you know, it's funny. We haven't talked about this on the show at all, but Sriracha is no longer available. There's a shortage and And it is, I've been looking for it in stores. It's killing us right now. Yeah, what do we do? I've bought sriracha flavored hot sauces from other brands.

49:16And they're terrible. They're too vinegary. I think there's a shortage. And John and I actually looked into this because we were so distraught by the lack of sriracha. Yeah. I think there's shortage in peppers. Yeah. Kevin, what do you know about the... I just heard about the shortage of peppers. Yeah. People buying sriracha on eBay, man. Yeah. 80 bucks a bottle. Yeah, I'm looking at one right now on Amazon. 25 bucks, which is sold by Sriracha. It's yeah, it's sold by the brand. So maybe they're just supply and demand. Yeah, 20, 26 bucks for a bottle of Sriracha. I can get it here by next Friday.

49:55Honestly, I think that I don't know. I think I think they do it. I might. It's gotten crazy. That's honestly like someone brought it up. I was like, it's so funny. I actually haven't had Sriracha in my house for a while. and I typically always have a bottle. Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah, maybe I haven't seen it in store. Now I'm like actively looking for it when I go places. It's hard to be found. They had been, I had heard something about it, I don't know, maybe at the end of last year about the chili shortage and I should have anticipated. I should have, you know. Been hoarding. Who knew? I started hoarding Sriracha, yeah.

50:26But how come other hot sauce brands can do it but Sriracha can't? I don't understand that. They're like a huge business. Must be the specific chili, right? Or this is a big opportunity for Mark Zuckerberg to come swoop in and make my own sriracha. Or a good opportunity for us, Kevin, to get in here. Yeah, they're selling them on eBay. I'm looking at Exploration 2025. It's such a unique sauce, though, because, I don't know, even the stuff you get at Trader Joe's, it's not the same. Nothing. They haven't cracked the formulation. No one has. And I've tried two different brands because I can't find sriracha.

51:02It's the Rooster. But that's amazing. The Rooster. Hoi Fong. like that's the brand yeah there's a 12 pack for 300 I'm gonna put a bid in you know well that's not bad that's like well no no that's over almost like 20 something dollars this is dark times I'm half expecting like you know the guys from Hoifang to be working with like you know some marketing we used to work at Jordan or something and they're like you know the guys from Mischief I was gonna say stock X just hold on Yeah, choking the supply chain a little bit. Mischief bought all the sriracha in America, and they're just going to start raffling it off.

51:43Complete new rebrand in like six months. This is a great idea. We should reach out to Mischief. We worked with them on a couple of projects. This is the best idea I've heard in a while. I played soccer with a guy from Mischief. I had no idea who he was. They're everywhere, and they're doing amazing stuff. We talk about them almost, it seems like, every week. because they're doing something almost every week. Yeah, this week it was the Crocs, the Parasitian big red boot, yellow boot Crocs. I just don't, I mean, it's just amazing what they've been able to put out. That's awesome. I think it just shows how much like National Mustard Day collaborations.

52:20It's like the bar is high. It comes from everywhere. Who set that day? I don't know. I mean, I guess there's a National Day for everyone. God himself. Marketing person. I want a National Seaweed Day. It's going to happen. Or a Sea Monster Day. It's going to happen. You could just make it up. I wouldn't be surprised if there's already a National Seaweed Day. We'll have to look it up. Yeah, we'll have to look it up. June 4th. Is it? It's the National Seaweed Day. Oh, you missed it. On that day, supporters from the private sector, research institutions, UN agencies, and civil society. You're for real.

52:49Remember the launch of the Seaweed Manifesto, collaborative work that has been supported by a sustainable ocean business action platform of the United Nations Global Impact. There's literally a day for everything. Okay, June 4th. There it is. Wait, when is Ocean Month? Ocean Day? It's like May or April. It's in May. It's in May. Okay. So it's kind of, all right, there's some marketing wheels. June 8th. That's only four days after Seaweed Day. Wow. Busy month. Busy month for you guys. And June 10th is my birthday. Wow. It's all coming together. Promo calendars lining up. Where should we send that invoice?

53:20I don't know. Marketing. Brainstorm. Well, that's, I mean, you could just make it up if you didn't want to. You could just make Sea Monsters Day. We could. That's how it goes. But there is a real Seaweed Day. Look at that. One of the things that I wanted to talk about, which is another crazy story, how big a fence of Subway are you guys on a scale of one to 10? Yeah. I'd say two, because I think it's because we're in New York City and we have better options. Exactly. Maybe one, even. Yeah. See, this is where you're wrong. There's a time and a place for Subway. It's not a place like Regina's Grocery or DeFontes or whatever, like the really good Anthony and Son Panini shop.

54:06But Subway is like, it's like Papa John's. But when do you go outside of New York or within New York City? I think it's outside of New York. Yeah, when you're traveling. I think it's when you're traveling is really when you eat Subway. When you have no other options. That's right. Or the other options like McDonald's. Subway's had a bad run over the last decade, I think. was that because of their mascot? Their mascot, he did some troubling things. I don't know if you've watched a documentary about it, but I... I've heard. I don't recommend it. Because you'll never go into Subways again? No, just because it's dark and not like...

54:43I love a dark documentary. Do you know the premise? Oh, I do. I do. Yeah. It's not that it makes you not want to eat Subway as much as you just never want to eat again. you know it's just like you know it's just it's just a really tough i don't want to think about it but subway since then has had a hard time and uh it's one of our favorite brands on the show mostly really yeah because just because of the dunks the chaos right okay and the chaos and the trouble you know they they had some issue where actually uh their tuna wasn't tuna shocking Shocking. What was it? A bunch of other meats. A bunch of stuff.

55:20A bunch of stuff. Cattle. Untuna. Yeah. Cattle. Are you kidding? They had beef and seafood? That's right. It was cattle. Wait, their tuna wasn't even seafood. It wasn't a different kind of fish. I think there was some seafood. It was a nice mix of a bunch of stuff. But it had meat in it. Yeah, it was cattle. It was cattle. Ouch. Because I remember how weird it is to classify meat as cattle. Yeah. Because what does that even mean? But what person at Subway's decided that that was going to be okay? I think the operations person is like, I got to get this thing under like nine cents. Yeah, shape those margins.

55:58The margins? I know, but come on. You got to submit that to your co-packer. And they usually bet like, if you say seafood, it has to show mostly seafood. Yeah. So that was what the problem was, was that someone went around and actually got Subway tuna sandwich which is from dozens of locations and brought them to a lab to test. Like a UCLA lab. Yeah. It wasn't a scrub lab. A legit laboratory where real science was. Wait a minute. Who was this? A competitor? No. I think they chose to remain anonymous. Yeah. Anonymous subway enthusiast. And they found that I believe six in 10 were not actually to know.

56:40Which is actually interesting to me because you would think they would all be the same. Right, because it's a franchise. Yeah, but that's not true. There was variation. Oh, man. And which I famously joked that it was like a sweepstakes, you know, to see what type of fish. Wow, excellent transition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was not tuna. And they claimed it was like bluefin and yellowfin tuna. That was the mixture. But the samples said otherwise. and yeah there was a combination of other things including cattle and uh and and a bunch of weird yeah and speaking of subway sweepstakes alex yeah what do you got oh so they're back um they that sweepstakes wasn't thank you for this transition kevin um they have a new they they've had a hard time since the tuna thing since the jared thing since uh they tried rebranding i don't think that was the problem they continue to have commercials with all these kind of apps they eat fresh refresh fresh and they've tried to change their products and things like that so this is their latest stunt which i think is actually maybe the most confusing of all of them which is they have a sweepstakes where they're looking for one sandwich fan one true sandwich fan to change their first name for real to subway and so if that person does that they will um be rewarded with a lifetime of free subway food and sandwiches and it has to be a legal name change and uh that is a real sub subway sweepstakes that's going on at subway name change.com between august 1st and august 4th you need to submit an application yeah so you submit and then they choose the winner and then the winner changes their name oh yeah i thought you had this is what i was trying no no no okay now so wait so they're looking for people that will legally change their name to subway and then they're just gonna choose one at random yeah they're gonna choose one but wait a minute do they ask for like like a passion essay or how do you i don't think that i don't think you're the right person it's a great question i didn't find the application i don't think it's live yet um but presumably i think they'd probably ask you how big of a subway fan you are that's right there's some questions vetting.

58:55Yeah, they vet some people probably and they're gonna, you know, choose somebody and I wonder what lifetime supply of sandwiches means too because I could see them being real stingy. Like one a month? Yeah. What's the healthy limit for Subway Sandwiches a week? Oh, I don't know. Some dude lost like 300 pounds. That's Jared. That's Jared. You need some dude. His name is Jared. I didn't want to name him. Put some respect on Jared's name. Oh my God. I mean, he's in jail, right? Yeah, he's definitely in jail. Like for how long? The rest of his life? It should be forever. It should be forever, but I don't know.

59:29Doesn't the documentary say maybe not forever? Yeah. No, I think it's like multiple lifetimes. Oh, well, that's great. I think he's in jail. I'm on the website right now. It says, how much do you love Subway's New Delhi Heroes? Sorry, Subway. What's a New Delhi Hero? Enough to change your first name to Subway and get them for free for life. Your chance is almost here. So Kevin's right. It's a sweepstakes that isn't open yet, so we don't know the real rules. We do have some pictures here of two people with like name cards or nameplates that say Subway Jones and Subway Williams. And yeah, OOF is right.

1:00:07And I guess the one thing that's in this article that I think is funny is that you don't have to pay for the name change. They'll cover the$750 from LegalZoom. Oh, how generous. Documentation fees. they should have just gotten like an NBA player to change their name to like New Delhi Hero because I mean that would have been much better that's a pretty, yeah that's a good what respectable basketball player would change their name to that? I mean there's World Peace Meta World Peace, yeah I mean you actually get somebody to change their name to Sea Monster I was going to say that I'm waiting for someone to tattoo it on their forehead that's the first sweepstakes like all those internet companies back in the 90s first one to get AOL tattooed on your forehead gets AOL lifetime subscription and whatnot.

1:00:53I don't know. I don't know. This sounds like a desperate brand trying a desperate ploy, but I don't know because the one thing I discovered in my agency days is that I'm not your average mainstream consumer because I'm in New York City. And I feel like New York City people, maybe we just have a different like way of looking at the world or maybe we're cynical. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. so like i'm always like hard to say hard to say or maybe we're just cynical and we came to new york city because it felt like the right people i don't know there was that case of um i think there was an airline like lufthansa or something and they were trying to get people to um change their name in sweet like they were trying to go for the swedish market and they were like oh swedish people if you change your name to boris and heidi or something like that the first person or one person to do that gets like free miles.

1:01:45You get to travel around Europe with these free miles. And then they found out like dozens of people actually changed their name legally. So they actually had to shut the contest down. Oh, so they didn't put like a we'll choose one? Yeah. Well, that's probably why Subway had to do this. Yeah, they learned. Yeah. I'm sure a bunch of Subway freaks out there would have changed their names in a second to get all that Subway. Free lunch every day? Sign me up. I got some breaking news. I googled what a new Subway deli sandwich is and apparently they're going to be slicing meats at the Subway sandwiches in an effort to not just pull them out of that weird little container and put them on the sandwich.

1:02:28They're going to do what every bodega in New York City does which is just take the hunk of meat and then put it on a slicer. I'm not mad about that. I like that. No? No? That defeats the purpose of your subway, love? Yeah, I don't know. That's just what Jersey Mike says. I would imagine this improves the quality, and I guess that's – if I'm going to be honest with myself – Quality in quotes. The quality of Subway is highly questionable, and I think if they are actually going to do something to actually make the product better, is probably they should start with the meat. No, Alex, you got it wrong.

1:03:02They're not making the product better. They're just slicing it in front of you. It's going to be the same product. It's just going to be sliced right in front of you. It's not - I wonder if it is the same product though. Oh, definitely. Do you think so? Yeah. No, I think it's going to be tuna. They're going to slice the tuna right in front of you. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Well, word to Subway, give Alex Center Studios a call. Yeah. They will help. I'll change my name right now. We'll change the studio name to Subway. Yeah. Subway Center. Lifetime Retainer Agreement. Ooh, yeah. So they're basically, this press release, it says the story behind the slicer.

1:03:40It's like, it's just going to, it's a deli slicer. It's a meat slicer. They're putting them in 20 ,000 restaurants. And yeah, the brand invested more than$80 million into these slicers. It doesn't sound like a lot. And it's gifting them to all the US franchises. Yeah,$80 million. It doesn't sound like a lot. I agree. They probably pay Steph Curry$20 million to promote Subway. But what do you think of these brands that try and sort of extend themselves? Because, I mean, I don't see a meat slicer in the realm of Subway. Like, I can't see it in their kitchen. Like, what do you think of these brands that are trying to extend themselves beyond their own story?

1:04:16I mean, the name is Subway. Yeah. It's got to be sort of a container for what the brand can sort of – Like how they're – maybe they're reaching outside their comfort zone. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I mean, you know, Subway is known for like maybe lean into fresh vegetables. I mean, would that be so hard? Like real vegetables in your sandwich? I don't know. Like a meat slicer? I just think it's funny to like use slicing meat as innovation. Yeah. Like the way that they're celebrating. I'm watching a video and it's just literally like. Right, right. Oh, that's their. Oh, wait. Hold on. Can we see the video again?

1:04:51Yeah, sorry. It's just a celebration of just a meat slicer. Wait a minute. This is their brand content? This is with the press. It just makes sense. The sandwich artist isn't even using their hand to slice. They're just standing there. It's an automated slicer. And I think this is like we cover a lot of automation too because Sweetgreen just introduced a place that's fully automated and they're using technology to make their lives easier. and Chipotle is using AI to peel and to de-pit avocados. Oh, okay. And apparently that's going to save them a lot of time. They're working on a lot of innovation.

1:05:33Subway just installed a meat slicer. Automated meat slicer. But maybe it's an automated meat slicer. Is it automated? It looks like it's automated. That guy doesn't look like a robot. Wait a minute, is he in the background? No, he's the operator. But he's not slicing. His hand's not moving. His hand's not here. that's usually isn't that yeah that's what a deli slicer is you gotta i think it's like uh liability they gotta keep the hand away probably i mean someone is no no shade no shade to subway workers but um i don't know if i don't know the sandwich artists at subway that i knew were like 16 year old kids yeah yeah you don't want to get them near a meat yeah like maybe that's not right for the average subway worker but maybe it is i don't know what the demographic they hire is higher from now.

1:06:18I did walk by Subway once and I got to tell you when they were baking that bread the smell is incredible. The bread smell is good. Maybe that's what they got to lean into. That was another one of their controversies. That bread had yoga mat in it. So does the McRib. Maybe not lean into your bread. The McRib had the yoga mat. The Subway bread was not legally considered bread because of the amount of sugar it had. And that's why it smells so good. it's cake is what you're eating. You guys really love Subway you've done a lot of research into Subway. It's our favorite brand. And it's mostly because of the controversy.

1:06:56They can't stop themselves. And so they're back with a really weird sweepstakes but now I think what we've uncovered is the bigger story meat slicers. They're bringing them in and I'm trying to do Subway's new deli slicers make a difference. I'll be researching this for the rest of the weekend. I mean we'll find out. Well you'll find out in like six months after launch. At least you'll get a show. Yeah, that's true. I'm going to Subway this weekend. You do that. There's no way to roll out. No, it looks like it's happening. Kevin, for the show next week, I'm bringing us other sandwiches. Last story, and I want to get your thoughts on this, because this one is something that bothered me a little bit.

1:07:34It's another story we've been tracking, and it's a legal battle between Taco John and Taco Bell. So Taco John is a regional taco chain. It has about, what was it, 4 ,000 locations? I can't remember. Yeah, we're not. Memory is not really our strong suit over here. But they have a decent amount of locations. Yeah, that's great. And it's not nothing. Obviously, Taco Bell has significantly more. But Taco John has something that Taco Bell doesn't. Taco John came up with Taco Tuesday. So this was something they invented sort of back in the day. It was like Tuesday was their slowest day. and they were looking for a way to get people into the store.

1:08:14They invented Taco Tuesday with some sort of promo, buy one, get one situation. Taco Tuesday obviously becomes this vernacular phrase that they have trademarked. And so Taco Bell does not like that. And so they have been suing them and they've been sort of in this legal battle. And about a month ago, they went public asking them to abandon it and using like LeBron James and like actual marketing, like commercials to basically say like, no one entity should like own Taco Tuesday. It should be free. It should be liberated. And they were - Yeah. So they were sort of like basically using marketing dollars and using, trying to persuade people through TikTok and other ways to like basically help them liberate Taco Tuesday so everyone could use it.

1:09:07But everybody is using it. except for Taco Bell. But Taco Bell wants to make money on it. Taco Bell wants to make money. Exactly. But Taco John does like to sue people. Oh, they do their litigious. Yeah, they're a little litigious. So apparently they go around suing other companies that are using Taco Tuesday because they have it trademarked. Right. So it's a complex issue. Yeah, it's complex.

1:09:35So before I decided I wanted to go into creative, I actually thought I wanted to be a lawyer when I was in college. Thank God I didn't because I would have wasted a lot of money. So this is a fascinating topic for us. And also because we have the CPG company, I know we're going to have to think about these things as we expand. But I would say like I like the story more before I knew because it's context, right? Like I like the story more in favor of Taco John's before I knew they were litigious. Yeah. Because I'm like, oh, that's genius. You branded a name. It became vernacular. That's great for like a challenger brand to be able to do that.

1:10:11I'm all for you because Taco Bell is huge. So I sort of thought of that as sort of like, you know, a challenger brand, David and Goliath. But the fact that they're suing other brands who are probably smaller than them, like that I don't like. I think there's a way to own something without going after someone litigiously. And also to say, hey, we've created this movement. And look at how many people are following or like are really inspired by this movement. and take ownership of the name itself. But, you know, instead of doing that, they've been cornered into like this, you know, this lawsuit.

1:10:45But I also thought like, oh, this is an opportunity for them to say, oh, you know what, we came up with this, but look at this. Like even Taco Bell wants a piece of this. You know what, we're going to liberate it, but they waited too long. They're being cornered and they waited too long. And I think that's the problem. Yeah, they don't want the legal fees apparently that have, that would come with. what I imagine have already come with sort of fighting Taco Bell in this. And so I liked what their CEO said. He went out and said, like, we've always prided ourselves on being the home of Taco Tuesday, but paying millions of dollars to lawyers to defend our mark doesn't feel like the right thing to do.

1:11:20And so basically they actually donated a big amount of money. It wasn't that big. It wasn't that big? It was like$40 ,000, which is big, you know, for like me to donate. But like a chain of$4 ,000. doors yeah wait what do they donate to though uh the taco liberation actually they should have started that's genius okay uh here's the thing i i agree like going around trying to like stop people from using your like trademark trademark for people below you feels like maybe that's kind of fucked up and maybe or i don't know like it has become this kind of thing but for me personally it just feels weird that taco bell is like we're trying to liberate it for the people and it's like it's not no you're not it's so clear they're not so clearly and so it's like they're saying that they like should be freely available to all who make salad eat and celebrate tacos it's like no you guys make salad celebrate tacos yeah you're the most famous taco brand you know in america yeah and so why why are you like fighting this small taco chain right and it just makes me feel sad for this taco chain that like, listen, they're never going to be Taco Bell.

1:12:33Yeah. Like, make your own taco thing. And it's like, I get it. They want to use it probably very badly. And they, but I just don't think it's not, I just feel like they're throwing their weight around and bossing, you know, they're, they're, they're, you know, they're bullying Taco John and it makes me sad. I agree. You know, Taco John also bullied people and that's and sued people too. Listen, I don't know Taco John personally, but I assume... So it's hard for me to defend him personally, but I also... Is there actually a John that owns Taco John? Yeah, he's friends with Papa John. And loosely related to John Lee.

1:13:14Well, if he's friends with Papa John, then he's a bad guy. Yeah. So I think Chipotle should get in on the act and actually do a Taco Tuesday. And then all the proceeds from that, they could probably wrap up into some sort of really nice nonprofit. I don't know. They should take over that. They only have 400 locations. Oh, they're small, actually. So that makes me even more sad. And Taco Bell has, I would imagine, thousands. Let's see how many locations Taco Bell has. Taco John, I take that back. Sorry. Now I just only feel bad for Taco John. Yeah. I mean, again, context makes a huge difference.

1:13:53like knowing that they're only 400 chains although that's not small insignificant either no it's not small no but there's no way they have the money to fight taco bell yeah but i also i i agree with you i liked i like the ceo's response and i think that's the sort of response that they should go for moving forward like we're the small guy here and also now that i you know now that you know we know we can't hold on to this we're not going to fight it like let's let's like own it let's own the name as much as we can and let's use it as an opportunity to let people know that it was our, you know, we came up with this.

1:14:27Yeah. They have 8 ,000 locations. So that's like, it's a lot. That's a small versus very large, but it's like I think it's, I think for me, like if they want to fight this thing on court, like that doesn't make me like that sucks for Taco John. It sucks for everybody, but like to get LeBron involved, that's the part where I really get sad. So what did they do? they got celebrities to make TikTok videos? Yes. But not on commercial like not on air. No they had an on air commercial as well. Was LeBron in it? But they definitely went much there was a lot of TikTok commercial content that they were saying and basically LeBron is a known Taco Tuesday fan which is like a weird but true story about him like going online on Instagram and saying Taco Tuesday.

1:15:17He got in trouble for being problematic it was a that was another story about this and so he's a fan of taco tuesday so taco bell was like we're gonna recruit taco bell taco tuesday enthusiast lebron james and try to liberate the phrase so that anyone who wants to use it can use it and definitely not because taco bell wants to use it for their yeah the use of liberated slurs here yeah like they're liberating for all of America. We've got a lot of problems in America. We've got a lot of things that we need to work on. Everybody uses the word Taco Tuesday. It's not like no one else can use it. It's just that Taco Bell can't use it.

1:16:00They can't because they have a whole arm of lawyers that are like, sorry, we can't do that because it's red flags. It's liberated. Not anymore. Now it's liberated. Taco Tuesday is for the people. Congratulations to everyone. Trademarks it. Happy Taco Tuesday to all those. Celebrate. That's when our show comes out. Our show comes out Wednesday, Alex. I'm so tired. I was talking to the story last night. I went to a bar and I got a drink and I just walked away from the bar without paying. Not because I didn't want to pay, but just mostly my brain is that tired that I completely forgot about the construct of getting an item, paying for an item.

1:16:39And this bartender came around the bar and came out to me very angrily. being like, you're going to pay for that? And I was just like, I'm so sorry. I'm tired. It's hot outside. My brain is... I've been working really hard. And so please forgive me. And so I don't know where that anecdote was going. Thank you guys so much for coming to the show. Thank you for your wonderful gifts and your wonderful products, the hats. And everyone out there, go get your hands on this. Where can they get them? That's maybe a good question. Where can they get them and where can they follow? Yeah. What do you want to plug?

1:17:18Please follow us on social at CMonsters. We've only just started really pushing our social. Obviously, we've been so focused on working on the product that we haven't really had time to do the marketing properly. So yeah, please follow us. Please help us come join the CMonsters movement. Click the follow. We are available right now nationwide in Sprouts. Sprouts Farmers Market. Nice. Shout out to Sprouts. So mostly West Coast because there's only a couple of Sprouts in the East Coast. But we are also available in Fresh Direct. Nice. Dash Mart. Dash Mart. We will very shortly be in Thrive and Erewhon.

1:17:59Ooh, Erewhon. Yeah, it's the big one. Yeah. Harris Teeter, Nuggets. Nice. Mother's Market. Mother's Market shortly. We are talking to Wegmans. Hey, what's up, Wegmans? Yeah. Talk about sandwiches, Wegmans sandwiches. Are they good? Yeah, they're really good. Blow us up way out of the water. The best sandwiches. Everything blows up way out of the water. You go to Wegmans and get a sandwich. One of the best chain sandwiches you can get. Oh, wow. Okay. Honestly, as good as any New York deli, in my opinion. There's only one Wegmans, right? There's the one in the VR? For now, they're opening one in Manhattan.

1:18:35Yeah. Really? Shortly. Okay. It's the old Kmart spot in NYU. Union Square. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Wegmans, incredible. Congrats. That's super exciting. And the product is actually really delicious. Thank you. It's not one of these better for you products that actually taste like cardboard. The world does not need more of those. Dude, we did that on purpose. Our kids were like, forget this better for you stuff. I want the Doritos, the Cheetos. G.A. likes to say the dirty. We want it to taste kind of like a dirty snack that you kind of crave and feel guilty about, but it's actually better for you. You killed it.

1:19:13I ate the whole bag. Yeah, yeah. I want them to feel like they're eating a Cheetos or a Doritos, but with cleaner ingredients and cleaner for the environment. And with a mission. Success. Awesome. Congratulations. Thank you guys for coming. Yeah. Thank you so much. We'll see you at Subway. All right. All right.

1:19:34please dont know i hey they are and not the they are페o uh the some a g!? well sorry but

1:20:03I sorry but I Mola, repola, mola, caralho Mola, repola, mola, caralho Mola, repola, mola, caralho Caralho DJ, você tá bravin Ela desce o cu quando tu solta o pontinho Caralho DJ, você tá bravin Ela desce o cu quando tu solta o pontinho

1:20:39forgresso.com

1:20:59Thank you.