TURDSOME TYPE

0:00I think I need to take a step back from Instagram. At a certain point, it's just too much stuff. I know. It's too much screen time. I know this is something I probably should have figured out years ago, but I don't think it's adding as much as it used to, maybe, to my life. Maybe it never did. No, I think it did at some point. I think it really was something that mattered to me, and I felt like I was looking for something, I guess. You found it? I found it in Jesus. Wow. You found Jesus through reels? He spoke to me. He said, Alex, get back to work.

0:41Three, two, one. Kevin, what's up, buddy? Yeah, what up? Long distance podcasting. I know. We'll be, I think we got four in a row here. Yeah. Are you back in New York sometime in May? Yeah. I'm thinking I'm probably going to be, well, actually, I don't know yet. I might stay another week. I don't know my schedule. TBD have these pods and where they're going to be. For now, we're socially distanced. Yeah. That's correct. This is your mom's house? Yeah, this is the dining room in my mom's house. This is the same scene where she famously interrupted the pod. I said, Mom, I'm podcasting. One of the greatest moments in our show's history.

1:31I know. I just had to send her upstairs. Yeah. She's on the phone. I said, Hey, either you got to go up or I got to go up and it's a lot easier for you. So, well, how is home? It's good. It's relaxing. Yeah. The city. Welcome you back with open arms. Absolutely. Yeah. Beautiful thing. Yeah. Nice here. Spring, really green. A lot of trees, a lot of grass. Hell yeah. It's good stuff. Sick. Kevin, the Knicks are back. I saw that. I'm, I'm kind of bummed I'm not in New York for Knicks mania. I will say by the time this podcast comes out, it's potential that the Knicks are dead. I just want to say that as well.

2:09The Knicks are both back and also dead. I'm not that slow at editing this. Honestly though, I'm not sure we're moving in the right direction. You know when your team isn't that good, but they're playing well and you don't want to be the guy that's like, this team isn't really that good, but you know deep down that they're not that good? that's kind of how this basketball team feels like. I know that they can't win a championship, but they're fun to watch. Hey, but that's okay. They got a favorable matchup to move on to the Eastern conference finals. So no, no, you only can play your competition, but like you guys had one bad game.

2:47You guys had, you guys had a horrible game against Cleveland. I think it'd be fine. You can't like Miami. No, you had, I mean, you did have a horrible game against Miami, but in the first series, you had one horrible game against Cleveland and you bounced. That's fair. I think if we win tonight, then officially the championship run is back on. I think if we lose today, I'm going to call it right now, must-win game. Yeah, I mean, you can't lose two in a row. You can't. It's over. It's bad. But Jamie Beller's hurt. And yeah, no, I think the Knicks are not a good basketball team. But I'm not giving up hope.

3:24And we're here. We didn't come this far to come this far. And I do want to believe that we can, yeah, we can make this a series. And to advance to the Eastern Conference Finals would be massive. Also, I think there's no way that this next team is going to beat the Heat in like five. This is a series that's going to go six or seven. So we're going to have to win some games on the road now, and we'll see how it goes. But Kevin, we shouldn't be talking about basketball. Kevin, because last night was fashion's biggest night. Oh, yeah. Kevin, as a fashion podcast, a pop culture fashion enthusiast podcast, we got to talk about the Met Gala.

4:13We have to, yeah. Yeah. How was it? What do you think? I didn't watch any of it. I just looked at the first publication that had a lot of fits on it. Okay. That happened to be the New York Post. i had some deja vu this morning because i feel like i did this exact same thing last year um but i think it was cool i mean yeah people were a little upset about carl lagerfeld and his problematic past but i don't really i didn't look into it so yeah he was born in 1933 so uh if he didn't have any problematic takes i think that would be more shocking i think yeah and he worked in fashion his whole life yeah i mean i guess what i know about carl Lagerfeld is he had a cat and he liked doing black and white big year for cats Kevin oh yeah huge huge huge obviously first our rebrand for cat kin and now Jared Leto Doja Cat and uh many others at the the Met Gala were all cat themed who do you think had the better cat fit Doja Cat or Jared Leto I think Doja Cat and I'll tell you why because I think it's a hard thing to both dress as a cat and also look high-end fashion.

5:24And somehow she pulled that off, which is remarkable. The fact that she looked stunning and elegant and sort of fancy, because it is a very fancy occasion. So to be both kind of crazy out there, because I think that's also what the Met Gala has also become, this sort of place where people can dress insane and that's what people kind of want. They don't want to see you look beautiful and elegant. They want to see some people push the envelope. And I think she did that while also looking really gorgeous, which I think was really cool. While Jared Leto, his was just kind of like a cat costume. A pretty cool looking one, I'll be honest.

6:07Yeah, it kind of was like an Easter Bunny type costume. I'm a notorious Jared Leto hater. I think he's weird. He has a cult. But I liked the absurdity of his outfit. and he should have kept that the head on the whole time i know it's about having facetime at the met gala but you know maybe pop it off for one picture and then just you know continue on with your night and keep you got to keep that mascot head on yeah i gotta go full full mascot yeah i hear you but also i think then maybe people like is that really him is he really uh you know is it what does he look like underneath there and i think it was it was cool to see uh yeah that he He had sort of, it looked hot too.

6:45You know what I mean? That's another thing. It's like this, as Justin G. I told us when he talked about being a mascot on our pod a couple weeks ago. I think being a mascot is, you know, it's not as fun as it looks. Oh, no, it's definitely not as fun as it looks. No. That suit looked awful, but. Yeah. Yeah. It's the Mac Alley, dude. You got to show out. Yeah. It's fashion's biggest night, man. Yeah. We're here to break down all the looks and all the fashion. Yeah. We're two fashionable guys. Yeah. Break down the looks. It's funny because it's a party, right? It's a gala, and they raise money for the Metropolitan Museum.

7:21There's no TV broadcast of it. It's just a dinner with a lot of famous people. I saw some people on Twitter complaining about how hard it was to watch it. Well, they now do something on television where they basically just do a red carpet, and they just talk to people. And so now it's just a red carpet for dinner, basically. Great. And great. And it does work well on Instagram platform, obviously, where people are just there looking for photos. And I do think that's where it really shines. But it is interesting that it's just a fundraiser. But it's turned into this red carpet that really, I don't know, it's become a showcase for celebrities.

8:02To be invited is a big deal. there was some slack channel messaging going on at the center studio and uh i people calling you know bringing their favorite outfits of the the show uh or the gala and uh i didn't know who any of those people were i'm gonna be honest a real old head moment for me yeah it's okay i don't know i only know a couple um yeah do you have any favorites that you saw i i liked uh obviously big little Nas X guy. I think he, I think he fucked it up with his, whatever that was. Uh, it was sick. Yeah. He just kind of, I mean, he's going for the controversial. I'm here to break necks and, uh, and, and make some people mad moves, which I do appreciate.

8:46And he, he did deliver in that way. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of what you got to do with, uh, when, if you're going to the Met Gala. So, you know, shout out to him. He had a sick fit and then janelle mona uh she was my favorite i didn't see janelle mona's look yeah that was sick that dress she was wearing pretty sick um pretty cool yeah i like the asap i thought the you know sort of uh the asap look was cool with the jeans and the sort of like carl skirt thing asap rocky is he you know he's married to rihanna so he can kind of do whatever the fuck he wants now yeah like you see him jump over the gate i did see that that that was that was pretty cool man he's such a rebel can i say one thing about asap rocky i saw him live once in in concert and i want to say he's one of the worst live performers i've ever seen in my life he absolutely terrible uh post pandemic i saw him in like 2015 and i had a good time i just maybe maybe it's like lip syncing or i don't know what he was doing he was performing at a festival so it was like yeah you know 50 60 000 people there and it just looked like he just was like the the way he's performing is as if no told him that he had a microphone so he didn't have to scream to reach the back of the fast like the whole like he didn't need to raise his voice there's giant speakers there and that's how uh concerts work so if he whispered or he sang or he rapped at a low voice that everyone would still be able to hear it he was screaming like every verse every rap everything was just he was trying to project very loudly and i was like wow this is truly awful like i can't listen to this anymore and i was like maybe he just like had an off night or whatever and then i saw on instagram a concert that he did just the other day it was this week and pharrell was there and he was performing he was still screaming i was like what the fuck this guy is awful i think his focus has shifted maybe a bit from music since his heyday since uh long asap i don't know what his focus is on but just being celebrity and being a partner to rihanna and multidisciplinary designer yeah he doesn't need to really perform but i think of him as a rapper and i think he has good music like i think his albums i have uh affinity for some of his early albums i just thought it was funny it's rarely you see someone that like can't perform live or is really bad these days and i was i was very shocked by how yeah or the the show was um yeah kevin uh there was some brick fits as well of course yeah patrick holmes he bricked that fit he you know patrick holmes is not a cool guy let's just start there not my quarterback no dude your quarterback but it looks he would have showed up i mean i don't think he would i don't think he really done anything crazy like i mean he would look good but like i don't know yeah i mean do you see shy from the uh okc thunder he had a secret on i forgot to include him in in the doc but around up yeah he he was really he's very fashionable he's probably top nba he's probably top fashionable athlete yeah in my opinion he goes so some some athletes there so duane wade man just i'm sick of duane get out of here duane wade i mean he's maybe i'm just because of the miami heat thing right now he's at the garden cheering on the heat just kind of just get fucking out of here um yeah a bunch of athletes there i always think it's weird like how do they determine which athletes get to go to these things because like don't you just buy your own ticket no i don't think that's how it works i think you have to be invited it's like an invite only thing so you would think that most athletes would want to go i would assume that maybe most everyone wants to go so which athletes get the sort of golden ticket to the Met Gala.

12:33It makes me curious. I know that, what's her face from Vogue, Anna Wintour, she's a big tennis fan. Yeah. So you do see a lot of tennis stars, more tennis athletes at the Met Gala than any other because of her personal affinity for tennis. That's an inside scoop. Wow. Yeah, no, I think athletes, they tend to look out of place there, I think, for the most part. Russell Westbrook, I thought, looked fine. He didn't look particularly great, but yeah, I don't see a lot of good male dressers. Go look at Shai. Diddy looks dumb. I don't know. I'm trying to think. I kind of liked what Diddy was wearing.

13:14Yeah. I don't know about Diddy. I thought the red carpet, from a design perspective, looked terrible. Oh, yeah. People were saying it looked like Aquafresh. Yeah. I couldn't put my finger on what it was, but it looked really bad. Shit looked like toothpaste. Not many people knew this, but... Kind of dirty. Karl Lagerfeld loved toothpaste. Yeah, yeah. Why white and red with the blue stripes? That shit looked terrible. And then, oh, my favorite moment of the whole night, Kevin. The cockroach. Did you see that? I did see the cockroach. That's New York, baby. To me, that's fucking New York City. NYC's back, baby.

13:49Yeah, hell yeah. You can't keep the cockroaches out of the Met Gala. Come on. I love that. That was my personal favorite moment. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Do you think it was an inside job? Good question. No, I think New York is actually legitimately dirty. Pizza rat, fashion cockroach. What do you think? I can see it. Fashion cockroach is great. Anna Wintour putting it in her pocket, save it for later, releasing it down the red carpet. It doesn't add up. How is there a cockroach at the Met? I've never seen a cockroach there. I've been there a couple times, too. Never seen it. I've been there in the last month, too.

14:24I'm sure they clean it. I'm sure they've got the best exterminators. There's no way a cockroach. Fashion's biggest night. You're saying inside job. Yeah, you think that cockroach paid for a ticket? Yeah, of course. They let it stay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To pay for the new wing. Yeah. I think it says a lot about Carl Lagerfeld's legacy that they let the cockroach walk down the runway. I think that was the most fashion social justice tribute they could have done. Because he's probably, if you believe in reincarnation and you believe all that stuff that the internet was saying, I came back as a cockroach.

15:00I like this theory, Kevin. Karl Lagerfeld was there. Yeah. Spirit of cockroach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like there's a cameraman trying to take a photo of it. And then at some point, I was just like, maybe I should step on this thing. I was like, maybe you should. Did he step on it? I think at some point, he tried to. And then I think he gave up on the idea. Oh, come on, man. You can't be killing a bug on national TV. On a white, red carpet. Yeah. That was the thing. So, uh, that was my personal favorite moment. And, uh, yeah, no, we'll, uh, can't wait to really relive it all again next year. I'm gonna let you finish.

15:35Put that cockroach had the hardest fit. It really, it really was special to me. Yeah. They should have had a, yeah. Where was pizza rat next year? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They should up the ante next year. Get a rat in there. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, this is New York city. Yeah. With like a big soft pretzel or something. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That'd be sick. Kevin, we have a lot of important stories to talk about this week. Yeah, I know. We got to move. So we got to move on. The MetGal talk, all the looks, all the fashion, fashion's biggest night. Johnny Ives typeface that he's been working on for four years.

16:07Wow. And it's still not done. Wow. The story comes from Fast Company. Johnny Ives, obviously, is the longtime chief design officer, I believe was his title, at Apple. He's famous for making some of the world's best products. from a product design perspective the iphone the ipod you ever heard of them uh johnny iv is a certified legend in design and he left apple uh after multiple decades there in 2019 to start his own design studio called love from uh we started center uh not too different in time so you know two legends one of the same johnny uh leaving giant companies to start our own studios you know we have a lot in common and uh he started the studio love from and they've been pretty secretive i think you haven't seen a ton from them uh over the years they do have a website um and apparently 40 plus designers so they are considerably bigger than us um and they've been working with clients like airbnb ferrari montclair while most importantly working on a typeface and uh this week that typeface is front and center and it is called love from serif and it is a modernization and upgrade of the famous typeface baskerville and yeah i think johnny uh is most famous for the apple identity you know in terms of like his uh his general aesthetic being clean and simple and rounded and um he often says aluminium which is kind of like what he is uh most memed for probably what he's most famous for i think he's most famous for aluminium yeah and uh yeah i i think people for his own studio i think you would expect a bit of that apple aesthetic you would think that it would sort of translate and so i do like the idea that he created this serif typeface that is sort of a bit of a uh yeah it's a it's kind of goes the other way so created hard to say if that's uh the correct yes yes refined um iterated yeah so basically this the story here is incredibly long i think one thing kevin and i both we were like while reading the story it's like it is a novel about this typeface it's just like a throwback to a different time design where people just took themselves incredibly seriously yes it's there's like a fast company article and i swear to god it's probably 15 paragraphs 20 paragraphs like of just straight up bullshit you know johnny ives is so far up his ass he's inside out yeah no i think it is a love letter to perfection i think you know that this article talks about sort of him bringing in mathematical experts and people that sort of are are are sort of diagnosing and sort of trying to create a typeface that is uh with an obsessive uh amount of detail and dedication to perfection and i think that is sort of the spirit of their studio which is yeah, it's all about craft.

19:30It's not just about sort of creating something that's good or average, but taking its time to pursue perfection, empirical shapes, empirical proportions. And that is sort of what they are after. Continuous curves. I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy that they're saying that because, I mean, this typeface is looking pretty average to me. Yeah. So I think here's what I'll say. This whole thing feels like the absolute most sort of navel gazing, self-congratulatory sort of bullshit. Sorry, my microphone just fell. You know, it really does feel like they are, yeah, they're just celebrating themselves and this typeface and this sort of project that they are just spending this amount of time to create something that is just so, in their minds, perfect.

20:32And I think it's just about genuinely, like you said, sort of this design point of view and this design sensibility that feels like it came from a different decade. A time when tablecloth and this idea of craft – and listen, I love craft. I think creating things that are beautiful is important, but I don't think that I resonate with this point of view and this positioning of design. design. And in some ways that is interesting, but this idea of love and fury and sort of this obsessive approach to design where they use scientists and physicists and talk about perfection and empirical proportions, it does make me a bit nauseous.

21:30There's some really crazy quotes here, but it's about the love of doing something and doing it well. That's the reason why they're doing is it feels like the antithesis to the design sensibilities that we believe in which is actually interesting to me because it's like to me it actually gives center like a bit of a foil in in many ways because i do think this idea of design has been something that has been practiced and celebrated a lot in my youth but i feel like it has gone away a little bit This sort of pinkies up, black turtlenecks, an architect's approach to craftsmanship and design versus making things that people actually love versus things that just are for the sake of perfection.

22:18And I don't think people love things because they're perfect. Yeah, this is the most Northern California bullshit I've ever seen in my life. This is like, this reminds me of that South Park episode where they're all driving Priuses and smelling their own farts.

22:36Exactly. And I think, to be honest, that maybe has been missing in design for a little bit, right? There hasn't been. I don't think so. Yeah, there hasn't been the smell your own farts sort of aesthetic or, you know, sort of point of view as much in the last 10 years or so. And I guess Johnny's bringing it back. And so one of my favorite things to come out of this story is David Rudnick, who's a designer that had a pretty good quote and a pretty great take on this on Twitter. It said, you know, to be clear, commissioning a beautiful, engineered, lovely revival of Baskerville is a charming, sweet thing that the very wealthy might do.

23:19Like having a vintage Rolls breathtakingly restored, but then saying you made the Rolls Royce and that you designed your first car is turdsome. Turdsome is perfectly used there. In terms of perfection right there is turdsome, the use of turdsome. Yeah. Because it's true. It's not that it's not interesting. And it's not that it's not charming. Or it's not that it's not beautiful. and it's not that it's not interesting to look at and to read about, but I think it's the way in which they're celebrating it that makes it feel as turdsome as it does. Yeah. I mean, it's like they've been in the lab for four years and haven't picked their head up and looked around and it's like they haven't touched any grass in forever and they've just been super hyper-focused and they've just really lost the plot of probably their lives.

24:13I don't know yeah it gives me a bit of a tom sax studio energy you know uh there was a lot of a story and discourse around tom sax's art studio where they all uh wear matching jumpsuits and uh apparently they eat together and drop their forks at the same time and go running in the morning together and uh lots of other really very culty things um and including some very problematic ones this has a bit of that feel as well where it's like you know at love from we are uh you know sort of uh dedicated to the craft of perfection and empirical forms and i'm sure that i'd be very curious to see this studio that these people are working out of and uh the rounded corners and the uh the the the angles i don't know if kevin they uh they they um yeah i'd be curious i feel like very similar to us, right?

25:06With the way our forms and our forks are displayed here at the studio, right? Yes. Very similar. Also, I just want to say this. Four years, Johnny Ive, I'm not calling you out. Let's see some of this work. Let's see some of the work. Let's see some of the stuff that the clients that you've worked for have that you've done. I get yeah, making your own typeface and making your own sort of work is important and beautiful. And yeah, I do think there's some pretty there's some merit here to what you're doing. I just don't like the way you're talking about it. But let's see some of the design. Let's see some of the stuff that the 40 people are working on.

25:50I know it's cool to be so secretive, but like, come on, let's see what you did for Ferrari. Let's see what you're doing for Airbnb. It's too cool and it doesn't matter. You don't need to see it. Yeah, no, I know. It's so sick, but like It's just behind the doors. You know, because I think that idea of perfection works when you're making Apple products and you're making some things that technology in many ways, like when you're making structural designed things, product design. Yeah. And industrial design sensibilities is obviously what Johnny Ive is known for. but you know now you're coming to graphic design and not to say that the studio isn't doing um uh sort of uh industrial design because i think they're doing a little bit of both but i'd be curious i want to i want to see some of this graphic design i want to see some of this branding i want to see some of this airbnb stuff right kev yeah i don't really care i don't i don't give a shit what he's doing i don't need to see it i want to see it um kevin moving on uh fruit by the foot, Gushers, Fruit Roll-Ups.

26:55Those are iconic brands of my childhood. Did you grow up eating those things? Love me some candy. Love me some sugary treats. I used to eat the plastic on the Fruit Roll-Up because I just would get frustrated. Yeah, I used to get frustrated. I couldn't unroll it. So I would munch the plastic. Yeah. No, that's like me with shrimp sometimes. Just when you can't get that outer layer, you can't get the shrimp out. Yeah, you totally can eat that though. I know. I'm sure the same thing applies for robes. Yeah, surely it didn't mess me up in any way. So, Kevin, fun fact about me, I did not eat any of these as a child.

27:34Wow. Yeah. I grew up the son of a dentist, and these three products specifically were banned in my household. Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, this is a dentist's worst nightmare. They literally are terrible products for your teeth. They get stuck in your teeth. They literally cause cavities. And yeah, for those reasons, they were holy grail items for me when I went to my friend's house or I was anywhere outside of my home that I could have some of the – I could taste that sweet, sweet sugar of gushers sort of exploding into my mouth. That was something that was a forbidden fruit, if you will.

28:10Yeah, I mean, hell.

28:16Why? Do you have something to say? yeah i mean i was i was gonna say something like uh i like i like uh i don't know i was gonna say something about exploding in my mouth i had a feeling you might say something about uh the juices exploding my mouth i'm waiting for it kevin come on i don't have anything on deck okay cool uh so yeah uh this year you've seen soda brand soda brands soda brand all them uh rebranding updating modernize uh and the story comes from the dialing of course and uh it is now time for general mills who is the maker of both uh or of gushers for brotherfoot and for roll-ups all to revamp its fruit snacks portfolio uh to do so they reached out to the brand design agency pearl fisher led by our friend hamish uh they have brought a new aesthetic to these childhood snacks all three of them have received a refresh package design all three of them have new modern logos and pretty big changes to the brands while still maintaining some of the things that they are iconic for.

29:24I would say that they have changed significantly while maintaining some of these sort of iconic assets that they are known for. Yeah, it's pretty impressive that they were able to rock that 3D gradient style type for as long as they did because that's been around for a while. Yeah, it's really interesting, actually, to look at the old versus the new side by side and to see how... It's interesting because in a supermarket, these products need to read as new, but they also need to read as consistent with the old. Because I would imagine there's definitely a lot of people, parents and the like, that are used to these products looking a certain way.

30:06So I would imagine that there was a desire for some consistency and some things that couldn't change. I would imagine gushers needed to like, even to the actual gusher in the bottom, right, squirting out the rainbow to the top left, like all of that has kind of stayed from a layout and design perspective, fairly consistent. What has changed is sort of the craftsmanship of that sort of logo. And then also some of the sort of, uh, the gushing. Yeah. I mean, that shit, that shit is gushing. You can't say what you will, but that shit's gushing. Yeah. Gushers are my favorite of the three products. I'll say that.

30:45Gushers are a national treasure. And I think the logo and, or my, the design of Gushers here is my personal favorite of the three as well. I think the new Gushers logo is, is, is, is very gloopy and fun. It, it, you know, this is obviously a design trend that we've covered and talked about quite a bit. But I think in this case, it works and makes sense for the product. And I feel like it does bring a bit of a new exciting energy to this package design. I don't love the black. I feel like that feels a little out of place here for me. But I think outside of that, I think this is sort of a pretty big win for this package design update.

31:30Fruit by the foot. at first I didn't realize that the logo was sort of mimicking the actual product. So for me, that's just me being dumb, but I didn't totally get it right away on first glance. But I do think this one, Alex, what if I told you all three of them took inspiration from the food forms that they're illustrating? Yeah, no, you are correct. All three of these products all grab influence from the regular product. um i think the fruit by the foot logo is is cool um i think it's interesting how they kept again like i said the exact same fruit roll-up that was on the front of the pack actually like the inner packaging a little bit better without it i think that feels a little bit more iconic it's a little bit cleaner um and then i think the fruit roll-up one is maybe my least favorite of the three it feels like it just kind of there's something about the tattoo tongue illustrations and how they kind of went around the product that I just think they were a little bit bolder and they felt a little bit more kind of like a sleeve of tattoos versus sort of just like, you know, sort of random kind of place tattoos.

32:36But maybe that's kind of more... That's the new trend. That's the new trend, right? Yeah, people love getting... The Met Gala last night, you see a lot of celebrities like Dua Lipa or Phoebe Bridgers or whatever. They just kind of have these small little random tattoos all over the body. So maybe these are all on trend. I think this is a nice job by Pearl Fisher. I think one of the things that I can't help but be sad for is the deranged logos that they got rid of. Because I think there's just something about them that is just so bizarre and psychotic that I kind of love them. They'll live forever in our minds, Alex.

33:11Yeah, that's the good part about design. And yeah, if you look at them really closely, you realize that they're bad. They're weird. And Johnny Ive would not approve. They're certainly very much not perfect typography in any way. But there's something about them that just evokes a different time in design when I think package designers were people that were very well versed in layers and shapes and gradients and drop shadows. and just that kind of fun, fucked up design of the 90s and early 2000s and even some in the 80s. In some ways, that is what I'm losing when you kind of simplify things. It's hate for you though.

34:06But I know this isn't for me, but we've talked a lot about food and beverage trends here in the studios. We work on a lot of food and beverage brands, but there is a bit of a resurgence to the psychotic and zany and crazy world of food packaging from the 90s you see brands like magic spoon and liquid death sort of leaning into that but those are for those are for adults like those like this is a strictly like these snacks are for babies alex magic spoon that's for adults you know okay so then you're i just think they go a bit counter trend but maybe you're right maybe it's the wrong demographic or the wrong audience.