Unhinged and Unresearched with: Jolene Delisle

22:31Okay. And then it was all like must-see TV comes back in the fall, which I liked. Can I make a recommendation for you? Sure. I started a show from the very beginning. Okay. It has 11 seasons. Okay. Is it Yellowstone? I don't want to watch that. Vanderpump Rules. Oh, okay. Have you ever seen it? No, but people love it. It's fantastic. Yes. It is mindless. It is dumb. It is a reality show and it's a restaurant. Yes. So it's about the people that work inside of Vanderpump. Yes. And my dream would be to do a reality show like Vanderpump. That's right. Because what I like about it is that she's not front and center.

23:03Yeah. She's kind of like more the narrator, I understand, and like more behind the scenes. Yes. But then the chaos ensues within the restaurant. Yes. So recently, one of my employees told me that he had, last summer, had like hooked up with one of the girls who worked at the restaurant. Yeah. And I was thinking, how great would this be if this is a reality show? Of course. It ended badly. And that's why she didn't come back. Yeah. But then like, dun, dun, dun, 4th of July weekend, big weekend, I bring her back. She's back. And then, you know, chaos ensues. Yeah, that's very - And I'm like Vanderpump, like just, you know, narrating what's happening.

23:34Yeah, you're just kind of like watching from the corner. From the corner. Yeah. I think, yeah, I agree with you that this sounds like a good idea. Yeah, I think I should do that. The thing about Vanderpump, which you'll realize very early on is, you know, one hookup sounds very juicy in real life. Yeah. But this show has like 40 different hookups between different people. and it's like you need to basically cast like a bunch of horny, hot people that are... It's going to be hard to find up there. Yeah, it's going to be a little tough. But I can scout. Yeah, you're going to need to get some... It's like, do you want to scoop ice cream, but also are you a model?

24:07Yeah, do you want to be an actor? Yes, exactly. Just make a fake design agency and get a one there. Yeah, that's what this is, right? You guys are doing that. That's why everyone here is so good looking. Yeah, we don't actually do any more. That's why everyone is so good looking here. That's right, exactly. They all have other aspirations. they all want to be models or actors everyone here is like I'm a designer slash slash DJ yes exactly I think we're primed for a television show you should do it I mean here's the thing cameras stuff has to happen yeah and no one wants to watch us do a creative review I would love to come in here and cause drama every day I was built for that yeah Kevin we would need that's the thing about Vanderpump you would need eight more kevin you need instigators you need people that come in and be like yeah hey i saw what you did yesterday right and i am gonna call you out on it because i don't agree with it and i think what you're doing is yeah you know it has to be very confrontational which is a shame but i believe that there's room in the market drama okay i do like reality tv i love i watched love is blind i love that yeah and then people like got married and had babies so it worked i i loved Love is Blind for the first like two or three seasons and then it got a little dark for me.

25:20Like it feels like they're kind of torturing these people a little bit. I hear it is torture. Yeah. And it just feels like they're trapped. They're trapped in a box and like in a bunker and it just kind of, I don't know, lost its glimmer for me. I do like the concept and I was very engaged but I don't know. The last few seasons I just kind of found myself getting like sad. Yeah. What's your recommendation for me? What TV shows? I don't have BBC Canada so. I've been watching Shameless. Oh, Shameless. Rewatch. That's a good one. Yeah, well, I'm watching it for the first time. Love Island. Pretty deep to that.

25:54And then going through Curb again. Curb Enthusiast. Oh, so good. Wait, you're going back through? I mean, I've been back through. I mean, it's sad. I don't know if I can watch Curb again. It's so good, though. It's so good on the first time. I haven't gotten through the finale season. Oh, it's great. I'm just like still churning through that. Your morning. I don't know. I just kind of lost. I don't know. I lost my. I'm so into Love Island and Vanderpump. so dumb that it's really hard for me to watch anything with a plot or anything that like. But Curb doesn't really have a plot either. No. Curb is not like.

26:25Yeah. I don't know. It's just a tough watch for me these days. I don't know what that is. I've heard Tokyo Vice is very good. I think that one's probably the next show I'm going to start watching. I love it. Kevin's real hobbies are going outside. Like Kevin genuinely likes to ride his bike. He does a lot of outdoor stuff. Wow. Touching grass. Yeah. I love. I just love laying in some grass. Yeah. Oh my gosh. you need to get out more. No, I know. We need to get out more. Yeah. Thank us. That's our problem. It's like we're the ones working. We need to be more like Kevin. Like Kevin. You're out. You're out there.

26:54Out and about. Out and about. Can we talk about breakfast bingo? That's another thing we did in our crack research. Do you know what that is? What is that? Apparently. I thought you played it. Yeah. This is something. Okay. You guys have. Okay. Your research. I'm going to put this in quotes too because people can see me, right? Yeah. When I do this in quotes. People. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. research is reading like one article i did for my friend's agency no we read we read like four years ago how dare you call us out four articles four articles wow it's chaotic like the show and literally i'm watching alex right now on his computer googling finding things on the internet no i'm just as much as he can i'm just reading one article that kevin put into a document for me yeah no way it was several articles how dare you call into question our research department here front and center.

27:39Very good at research. But breakfast bingo, not a thing? It sounded great. I was very into it. Because here's one thing. I order a lot of food online because I just don't cook as much as I should. And I find myself in a position where I'm constantly like, what do I want to eat for dinner today? What do I want to have for breakfast? Like, whatever. So I think some sort of device, a generator of some sort where I just spin the fucking wheel. I think they have that. Where do I get that? I don't know. but I think I've seen that before. Is it true that you love breakfast? Well, so the thing about breakfast is that I don't – Is anything that we've read true about you?

28:15I actually think that you researched a different person. Oh, shit. Another Jolene. But there's a lot of us now, especially with Beyonce. We're having a moment. This is a summer. Women? Jolene's. It's a big summer for Jolene. She has a song. There's no way I researched the wrong person. Okay. But yeah, no, I was just saying in that article, the one that you researched just now, is that it's hard for me. No, it's not just now. It's at least a couple days. A lot of people ask me, okay, you have kids. When do you see them? You work, you travel a lot. So I try to make breakfast a time that I hang out with my kids and I see them.

28:51I always - One meal a day. I try to clear out. Yeah, people are always like, oh, I have to rush home for dinner. I'm like, I can't handle the pressure. My kids eat at like four o 'clock, five o 'clock. It's like not sustainable for me. So I'm like, it's better if I always say like breakfast is our thing. Okay, cool. So what are you making them? Okay. So we're not like making, we're like buying, we, okay. My kids are obsessed with pop-up bagels. Oh, okay. They're really, yeah. They're into the breaking shmear. They're into brands. They're into brands early on. They're into hype. They're into hype.

29:21And they love Red Antler. They love, they love VC funded food brands. So like. VCs usually have good taste. Yeah. Yeah. They don't put their money just anywhere. So when they're not bringing sweet green for lunch, they are having pop-up bagels for breakfast. That's awesome. Is that true? Do they bring sweet green? They love it. They love Blank Street coffee. Yes, exactly. They refuse to go anywhere else to Blank Street. Yes. They love pop-up bagels. It's like a new thing. I've never had it. Is it good? So I actually had a pop-up bagel two weeks ago. It was a true story. And then it put me into such distress.

29:55I was so sick. And I went and got a test. And I found out that I have like a gluten sensitivity. I have like not celiac. I have a – So actually, I mean, if anything, it's a diagnostic. It's a diagnostic. That's good. They're actually a telehealth brand now. They can actually, if you eat one pop of bagel, let you know if you have celiac. That's why they have the partnership with HIMSS. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I should do that. I've been wondering. Yeah, yeah. I've been toying with the idea of giving up. Of going gluten-free. Yeah, maybe reducing. Yeah, so it's good. It's like you have it, and then if you go into immediate shock, your body convulses over.

30:29Yeah, you start bloating from all areas. Exactly. That's what happened to me. And then I went to the doctor and they were like, yeah, you have an intense gluten sensitivity. We would suggest you avoid it. They're like, what was this brand? Where can I invest my money and how did you find this out? And that was how. So are you limiting your gluten now? Yeah, I'm limiting it. And my kids are now just, they will eat all the bagels. We'll get six and they'll eat all of them. Yeah, I heard you can buy them singular. That's what, a designer was here that lives out of town. and she was like, I'm going to go pop a bagel because that's all the hype.

31:04And she was like, I had to buy three bagels. They're warm. And then immediately once they're not warm anymore and they go cold, they become rock salad. So they also have a certain time limit that you have to eat them. So it's like a pressure bagel. It's like you have to buy so many and then you have to eat them within a certain time frame. I hate this. I'm just going to say this. As a Long Island Jew who was born on bagels. You're not their demo. No, this is a travesty. And I think that's probably why I haven't been. I've heard Apollo bagels are very good too. They're more like Montreal style.

31:34Oh, Kevin? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not into designer bagels. I'm into just like get the bagel from the bagel store. Right. I like a hot bagel. Yeah, of course. Who doesn't like a hot bagel? Yeah, it's a warm bagel. It's almost like a biscuit slash bagel. So anyway, the kids love that. They love it. Yeah, because of the investors. Yeah. How much money did the kids have they put into this? Yeah, they got some stuff. They pay. They pay actually in crypto. They like to keep paying crypto there. What else are they investing in? Are they bullish on sort of a DTC or a restaurant to retail?

32:06Yeah, they're feeling like they're divesting a little bit from DTC. They're trying to expand out into like other things. Into experiences. They see AI is really huge. Wow. They're really into that right now. So they're moving into crypto. Into that, yeah. That makes a lot of sense, tech. Yeah. Their bonds are strong. Their portfolio is strong. They sound like smart kids. They really do. They sound, how old are these kids? They're four and six. Yeah, perfect age to start investing. That makes a lot of sense. That's what you have to do these days, though. It's so hard to get into college. Really?

32:33Kids are still going to college? Yeah, at like seven, you have to start a startup. They don't need college. College is a waste of money. We can all agree, right? I think so. Yeah. When's the last time you ever looked at anyone's resume? None. I never. The other day, actually, I was trying to make this point, and I actually made it a reverse point, which was I didn't know where anyone went to college, and then actually I went around and I knew where everyone went to college, but none of that mattered when I hired them. Yeah. I just know that because I know about that now. But no, it wasn't like, oh, man, Kevin went to University of Ohio or Cincinnati or whatever.

33:06I got it wrong. So I need to hire him. Yeah. You know what? I noticed the other day because we were going around and I was talking about how long people have been here. I was like, oh. And people were like, yeah, I've been here like five years. Oh, I've been here four years. And I was like, outside of prison and a job, no one ever talks about how much time they spent somewhere, right? That's true. You're not like – like Kevin's like, yeah, Alex had to be locked in here. for six years. You're so right. This is a great thought. This is a great, yeah, this is a great insight because on Zoom sometimes when we do like introductions, it's like, I'm Kevin and I've been doing this bid for five years.

33:40Yes, exactly. I'm Ellie, three years. Hoping to get released on good behavior soon. Yeah, it's like, what's your time? Yeah, right? Hey, I'm Pete. I've been here for six years. And there's like a darkness that comes over their eyes as they say it. You love counting. Yeah, But outside of that, that's how you identify now. Your time. You're locked in. Where you're from and how long you've been doing the time. Yeah, exactly. Time's the most valuable thing in the world. It is. I've actually been like, let's all stop doing the time thing because it's getting a little weird. We still do that, but I think you're right.

34:13I think I should put a stop to it. It's not great. Yeah, I noticed the other day that Jessica on my team, she's been with us for a long time. She had a far off look in her eye and looked out of the window. and she was looking at a bird flying in the distance and she said how long she's been with us and I was like, okay, we have to stop. This is getting weird. Yeah, okay, I'm going to institute this. This is great because I think one of the reasons why I was excited about having you on in many ways I'm trying to learn from you. Oh, I'm learning from you. Yeah, you do so much amazing stuff. You recommended a finance person.

34:44I work with them now. Oh, you do? Yeah, Michelle. Shout out to Michelle. Oh, yeah, she's the best. And you run a great shop. So I think you are obviously someone I get to pick your brain a little bit. Yeah. topic change favorite thing in the world to do is ask questions is that I find that to be true I find that to be true which makes it difficult for me to be on a podcast because I want to become a host you know one of the things like I'm dying to ask you both so many questions let's do it which I also think that could be another good show yeah flip it on us forget me like I want to ask you questions yeah let's go I like you did constructive criticism why don't you host the show I know this is your show but I do think that like don't you feel like this is a big part of like being a designer that was asking questions And it's like, we're kind of like anthropologists, you know, we have to like find out everything we need to know.

35:27There's a girl on my team. I was joking that when I used to work with her at like an old job, we used to work on Hershey's and I was like, she became a candy bar. Like she just, she like embodied a candy bar. Like she. She what? She just like, she just like, she's a copywriter and she just like learns everything she can about like the process and like what takes to make it. And I think that's, that's good designers and good creatives are like that. Curiosity. The curiosity. You want to have to know about things. No, I think that's true. I think that's fair. And I think that's the coolest part about branding, to get serious for a second.

35:59It's like we get to explore all these wonderful worlds and all these spaces and go from like cat food to alcohol. And you're like, oh, I'm going to learn. And then you're like, okay, now I know everything about cat food. I know why people make it. That's right. Who's buying it. You know, it's wild. I know things about cats that I never knew before. You're not a cat person. I'm not a cat person. I'm not an animal person. I can tell. Yeah. What about me says I'm not an animal person? just everything but also just your aura just your aura yeah yeah but I'm a dog person which is like something that people didn't know about me you have a dog I have a dog nice how do you have the time a dog a design studio even people who have known me for years don't even know I have a dog because much like Kevin my dog's not allowed to leave the home or where he is all day where in in Soho and also loves grass honestly you and my dog have a lot in common I know people I am a dog dog you do have gold you know what golden retriever energy is that's kevin yes because my hair yeah yeah yeah pretty much i guess yeah uh i've been working up a take and i guess it's a i have a podcast so this is the point this is the point of having a podcast yeah i don't think people in new york city should have dogs okay i don't think they should have big dogs yeah they i mean little dogs big dogs i just don't i think too many people have dogs here like yeah i live in a building in Greenpoint and every fucking person has a dog.

37:21And like everyone is, I'm walking, I'm walking on the street and I'm just walking in piss and it's just like, everybody, you know why people want to have dogs? It's because they want to put on yoga pants and they want to walk around, you know, on the streets. That's why, that's why people have dogs. That's your hot take. That's my hot take. My hot take is that I actually watched someone pick up after their dog the other day and he had two bags and I was like, that's when you need to go to the summer. It's irresponsible to the dogs. A double bag. like that's too much like you need you and your dog one need to get something checked out and then two yeah the dog needs to go outside just like having the dogs need to you know sort of run free and new york city and brooklyn is not a place for dogs yeah so my dog is really old we got him before we had kids and i didn't realize how long dogs live so that was on me to not research that yeah so my dog's still alive but i had a thought recently about how maybe i should open up like a hospice for dogs.

38:16You need another business. I feel like dogs. I feel like you get so many volunteers. I feel like dogs need like, yeah, like I, I feel like dogs need like certain attention at a certain point and they need like more care that I can't give my dog the time. This is a great idea. I think. And like a place outside the city that the dogs can go. Also people will pay whatever. Yeah. Exactly. To have their dogs be comfortable. That's right. Also like someone reached out to us once about like a death business. I know those things are kind of hot. Yes. you know people it's a weird and wacky idea but just like people at the end of their lives like yeah it's it's kind of dark but like it should be well it should be a well-designed experience yes you know sort of yes um we got that call too we talked to that guy too yeah we didn't get the job same here shout out to him yeah uh i think i actually just read that the business closed so okay well you know could have been us could have been us uh do you want to talk about working assembly do you want to talk about work that you guys have done because you guys have done a lot of cool stuff i'm good uh so sansa uh no we don't have to go there um can we talk about uh you ready for the next next hard left here vetting clients okay do you do that do you do that okay so in the beginning we would take everyone yeah you know right yeah that's what we do now anyone you got money you have money like come on over design you want and then i realized okay okay we need some standard okay if you have money you're a good person you seem like you have good intentions okay then we're gonna work together and then it becomes more and more things so now i have a new way of vetting where if i have to be on a call with you more than three times before you decide to give us a project i know that this is not going to work out wow so good one this is good and i will i will turn the business down i actually just recently did that with someone who asked me to meet for a fourth time after meeting three times and i said listen i think this is if you are this indecisive about us working together then i one i don't know if we're the right fit or partner for you and two i'm really concerned that during the creative process it's gonna be very difficult for us to make any decisions because i really need to work with someone who has the instincts to be able to make decisions and not if this is not um who wants to be a millionaire you can't phone a friend every time you know yeah that's sick that's why people listen to this podcast yeah people that's an actual real uh tip insider tip yeah it's true it's like you can tell yeah the calls beforehand um a thing i've been doing and we never turned down a project so this is just like you know hypothetical of course but uh you know uh when you're talking to someone i think about how much time i'm gonna have to spend with this person yeah and it's like will i look forward to that time right or will i dread that time yeah and if i find myself not wanting to get on a Zoom with someone.

41:00Yeah. I'll still take that job. No. I mean, listen, it's a very loose system. Right. But like, I think it's important to like - Yeah. Be vetting and be thinking about sort of the long game here. Yeah. Versus just like, oh, it's a cool project or hey, they got a big bag of cash. Yeah. Anything else you guys do? Do you have a metric system or anything that you do? Well, I think recently we were doing, I think people, you know, once you do a project and it's pretty successful, I think you'll get a lot of other projects that are sometimes very similar and it's very hard to like replicate like if that same kind of formula magic whatever happened again especially within the same vertical within the same space and so we really try not to do the same thing twice which has been hard because you know especially within the past couple years a lot of stuff has come out and they all kind of toe the line sometimes where they get blurry whether they're on top of each other a little bit so the museum of sorbet called right Right, exactly.

41:54Museum of Gelato called me. I would love the Museum of Gelato. That would be so good. So delicious. That sounds great. But yeah, I'd go to Puglia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that happens to us. We talk about this on the pod. Like, we have done a number of beverage projects. So we get a lot of calls from beverage brands. And it's something that we are actively, you know, we're not denying them. We'll still take them, of course, as long as you have cash and, you know, find a smile. Will you take other types of payment, like Bitcoin? Crypto, Bitcoin, of course. Absolutely. Exposure. That's the message.

42:23Someone just offered me their house in Italy. Oh, a house in Italy. Yeah. Not to live, but like - Purchase to stay. They're like, hey, like, can we get a little discount on this? I also have a house in Italy. I was like, love this. Love the creativity that you're sharing here. But I will be needing a wire transfer. I'm going to need money from your account into our account. Well, hold on. What's the house? Yeah, what's the house? I don't know. I didn't mean to go that far. I wasn't sure how serious he was. You need the Zillow listing. Okay, I'll get that. That'll be a good follow-up episode for this.

42:52I'll show you the listing. yeah that's pretty sick have you ever done any barters or any trade deals um no but you know we love to work with early stage brands and so oftentimes that does come with the level of like hey like we're gonna pay you when we can and i i think those things you know will work out or they won't work out but you do those projects because you're really excited about the the brand the founder and you want to try to make that happen for them and so and then sometimes you just get paid in like sparkling water and that's okay yeah the jake hall show is called presumed innocence that was it yeah so i did start watching it thank you thanks alex oh i know there's i know there's you know i know there's still there's a jake in uh in lithuania who's like what is the show yeah i didn't want to leave the listeners hanging there yeah they were they were all wanting to thank you thank you uh no it makes sense and i think but as the studio gets bigger right is it you have to be more mindful and then do does your sort of aperture for what is a good project for the studio so it's interesting we just had it all we have all hands every month where we kind of talk about like our goals and where we're at with the business and we kind of go over numbers with our team like pretty frequently and one thing we talked about last year where we made the decision was uh because that was a question people have was like what's our goal like what are we doing here Like what's the end game here for us?

44:13And you're like my own. Define the relationship. Yeah. So we decide that we actually aren't going to get any bigger. We want to stay at 50. 50 is our magic number. It's our sweet spot. And so for us, it's really about like holding our craft, really getting good at like our process and making sure the team is really working well together. And then if someone leaves, then we can hire someone in, but we're really not trying to expand. So that also makes it where we also don't try to take on too many projects because we know we don't have the capacity for it. We aren't going to scale to accommodate that.

44:46One in, one out. Exactly. But 50 is still a lot. I mean, that's five times bigger than center. And so I can't imagine. I had to do that math. Yeah. You saw me do that. Yeah. I mean, in my head, 10 feels like a magic number for us. Yeah. Where I'm just like, I like it. It feels round. It feels solid. I feel like we could do a lot of things. Yeah. We bring in some freelancers. But 50 is a big jump. Yeah. I think I've wrestled with that sort of question in my head a lot. So the way that our business is, is we have half of our clients are retainer and half of our clients are project based. So we have to have a certain amount of staff always dedicated to the retainer clients.

45:21And so the way we have it is like if anyone works with us, you know, they have a retainer client that they work on, but they also have a new project that they work on as well. So they're kind of balancing those two things. That's fun. But yeah, it's just how we are structured. and we have a really robust motion team in-house. We have like a writers in-house. Nice. And a lot of brand account people too. How many people work on a project? So we start out a project with a design lead, so a design director. Okay. I'll be on the project as well. An account person. So we call them brand managers. Okay.

45:55And then usually three designers. Okay. You're on every project? I am on every project. Yeah. how often do you uh break out the uh sticks and design some stuff for yourself never never yeah of course all the time you do yeah i mean i mean uh i i throw my i don't really design a ton i mean i'm not like yeah i'm not out here designing yeah uh every day that's what you're doing the laptop or you know he's but i but i do i like to throw some stuff in the ring or if i have an idea i want to visualize it and be like here's the general thought i spent three minutes on this but you get the gist yeah go and make this yeah no i will pull i will break out mood boards and i'll break out like kind of design directions and drivers and like ideas um and i'll share a lot of inspiration and like thoughts but i feel like it's tricky because sometimes i was doing like logos or even just sketching things out and i think it's tough like it's tough for people especially junior designer be like yeah that sucks like i don't want to do that oh my team is so good But at that, they are.

46:58Oh, my God. They like laugh in your face. Oh, they're like, well, let's hide these pages. And they're like, oh, that's my work. And they're like, okay, sorry, dude. Skip slides. Yeah. Don't got it anymore. Yeah. They're very honest with me. A little too honest, if you ask me. And my background also was in copywriting, too. So I did both design and copy because I worked in advertising. And so I actually find myself writing a lot more for clients, too. So I do a lot of writing, a lot of brand strategy. So I feel like I'm still in the slides, but it's not so much in like the design aspect. But yeah, more directing the work.

47:34And then we do a lot of shoots too. So a lot of times on set, like looking at photography and video and all that. So what is the end game? What's the, where does it all go? Well, I'd love to kind of continue with the agency. We're kind of thinking about what's next for us. We haven't really figured it out yet. But I think just as far as like formalizing the agency a little bit more, creating more structure that's kind of create a lot of clarity for me it's helped a lot just even just kind of putting some stakes in the ground around our size our process the types of clients we want to work on the types of things we want to do uh but i think for me i want to like create an opportunity to do more and more other brands too so this year we're working on two products that we're going to be launching that are going to be like agency created products that are going to be out in the world what are they um i can't say yet but um no exclusives yeah one is in the food space and one's in the skin space sweet and then we also of course have the the agency itself the yeah the agency the ice cream shop itself and then i'm starting a a non-profit actually um called founding families christ yeah so the founding families not for profit meaning not for money not for money what I know, just to help people.

48:47But I think that there's this whole idea that when you have kids or have a family, especially as women, you have to make a decision whether, you know, you can be on your timeline about your family or you can be on a timeline about building a business. And oftentimes people don't think you can do both at the same time. And so the whole idea is around just connecting more founders who have done both, who have successfully raised a family, raised capital, have done. And just like resources and understanding how you navigate both. Because it's really tough. When you don't have paid leave here in the country, like we do in Canada, it's tough.

49:26It's tough. You have to figure out those resources yourself. And I started the agency when I was pregnant with my daughter. And I think part of why I didn't quit my job was because I was like so worried about like health insurance and navigating like paid leave and how all of that would work. And I just want to make it where people feel like they can take chances and do both and not have to make those concessions, especially women. I feel like a lot of times like we don't have as many female entrepreneurs because they feel like if I want to have a family, I can't also have a business, you know?

49:56No, it's hard to do both. And I don't know how you do all this. I honestly, I look at every single thing you do and I'm just like, I have no kids, one agency and no other ice cream, no ice cream shops. And you're not even watching any TV shows. Oh, no, I'm watching a lot of TV shows. That's that's with no plots. Yeah. No, they have plots. They're just hot people trying to find love. Yeah. That's the plot. That's the plot. Yeah. And that's all that I'm looking for. Yeah. It's honestly astonishing. And honestly, that's the that's the class that I think you should teach. It's like how to multitask or how to sort of – Yeah.

50:29How to do it all and how to balance it all. Yeah. Because you seem like you're doing it all right. I think balance is like the wrong word. I think it's blend. Like I think that I care about all these things. So for me, it's like some days I maybe don't spend as much time on like home stuff or I let things slip or I haven't done laundry in two weeks. But like – You do your own laundry? But I'm a peasant. I do my own laundry. No, you're not. I do. I do. I like laundry. Yeah, laundry rocks. Wait, what? You have time to do your own laundry? Are you not doing your own laundry? Absolutely not. Who's doing your laundry?

50:59Buy next. Shout out to them. Coupon promo code, 15 % off. Send run center. Yeah, so. Formerly known as Cleanly. They rebranded. Oh my gosh. They actually reached out to us to do the rebrand. And? We turned it down. And they're doing well? I don't know. I have no fucking clue. But they're doing my laundry well. A lot of times when I go out to like, you know, this weekend was like fancy food show. And like I went to Expo West, which you should go to next year. I've never been to. We'll go to next year. We should go. Yeah, we should go. You should do a live show from there. That would be awesome.

51:27We've talked about doing actually what you were talking about before. Yeah. Going up to people's little microphones. At Expo West. That would be amazing. With branding and stuff. Oh my God. There's so much. But when you go there. What's a nootropic? When you go there, you see all these people who didn't hire you. And it's like being with all your exes. And you're like, hey, how are you doing? Are you happy? Like, did she make you happier than me? Like, how are you feeling? You know? And then they also are like, well, I don't want to tell you how happy I am. But like, yeah, like they're here. like we're here together.

51:55There are a lot of projects out there. We talk about this a lot when we hang out. It's like, yes, I talked to that. I see something launches. I'm like, oh, we talked to them. Yes. Oh, I had the conversation with that person and I can never name it. I went on two dates with them and they decided not to, yeah, not to marry me. Yeah. We flirted a little bit and then they, they, they, they, that's how I feel when I go to Whole Foods. I'm like, oh, there's the people who rejected me. Yeah. It's like, it's my uncle grocery shopping. You know, it's like, those are all my exes yeah it does hurt i mean no one talks about this you know this is uh only we can relate you know exactly it is it's it's sad it's it's sad when you know a really cool person yes or a really cool idea and you're like oh and they'll try to make up stuff too they're like oh you know i really love meeting you i love i i feel like we really had a connection but like we just decided to go on different we just went a different way because you know it wasn't you it wasn't even me it was like it was my co-founder they wanted to do that like they had a friend and they needed to do a favor to them i was like oh okay cool and then you see it and then they they have a ton of success yes like yes i have learned to let those things go a little bit um and uh mine is fly by jing because i talked to her a lot right i was really excited about it and i was you know it's it's it's a brand you can't avoid uh because it's everywhere right it's doing really really well and i'm happy for them but i every time i see it i'm like could have been right i talked for her too yeah exactly and i was like jing jolene asian asian i mean listen i did not have that they should have won yeah yeah but um no it's it's it's hard out there that's the thing that people don't understand the hard the hard the rejection the rejection yeah yeah it hurts and then you see them like go on you get rejected by someone and then they go on to be lebron james yeah and you're just like fuck yeah or even with We've had some amazing designers.

53:46And then you're like, you grow them like a little baby, like in a test tube. And then they go out and become messy somewhere else. That's never happened here because I don't let them leave. And you're happy for them, but you're also like, I wish I had messy on my team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there one that got away as far as brands? Brand that got away. Yeah, look to the right of the center wall. No, I'm kidding. Of the wall. no I mean there's I think everything happens not to be cliche I think things do really happen for a reason it's meant to be like it frees you up to get to whatever is meant to happen but we have a couple projects right now that I really hope land but you never know I mean it's there's so many variables you know we'll talk about them after the yeah exactly let's talk about them now off the record yeah let's see what what's the new what's in the new business channel.

54:42Last question before we get you out of here. Thank you for this. You posted a picture of you and Oprah on LinkedIn the other day. I know. I fell for it. It was a quick date. I couldn't tell if it was new or old. It's old, but you know what's funny? The photo is new, but that post is now a little bit in LinkedIn days. It's old. Okay. But as a new connection, you just saw as a new connection That was the first thing I saw. So it's funny because I saw on LinkedIn people making fun of this guy who got engaged on the beach. I don't know if you saw this picture. I don't know how much you guys are on LinkedIn.

55:20But there was this guy who proposed on the beach. He's like 10 things I learned about closing a deal from getting engaged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A thread. It was like a little clickbaity. It adds a little intrigue there. So I did it more as a joke. like you know like oh what i learned about hosting a panel from my time with oprah wow it was tongue in cheek it was tongue in cheek but people really but it worked yeah yeah and then there was people who were like wow like ai is amazing these days like oh when did you go madame sousa like in times square you didn't take me it's a real photo i met her we worked we worked on a project with her and uh they were like no pictures and then i was like you know what this client might we might not work we don't have another scope after this like i'm just gonna go for it yeah you gotta get yeah i just like i just got in like the meet and greet line and i just got a picture but it's interesting you can't take a picture with your phone um like no selfies she doesn't do selfies but she has a photographer yeah she has a photographer he takes a photo and he sends it to you wow what project do you work on with her can you talk about it or no w well she doesn't she's not part of anymore but was her last thing that she did for weight watchers oh okay yeah cool yeah what was she like was she on zoom was she uh proven creative no no no so the event was all for her it was a live broadcast okay and she was there and she's so thin like alex yeah you know yeah it was epic and um she she is amazing so warm so like gracious and you're like wow like you're so much richer than anyone i and it's funny in contrast i had just worked on another project with like a like an influencer um and we had done like a shoot with her and the influencer was really it was difficult it was difficult like she had a lot of needs it was like it was there was a lot of rope to get around to like work with her and like navigate whereas like oprah like the most famous person ever and she was just so warm and so like easy i have i think that happens no i think that is why famous people like get famous in the first place i'm not saying all of them there's a ton of them that are shitheads and yeah people but i do think there is something uh charming and sort of that you know yeah something about that thing that people say where they like light up a room and they sort of make you i don't know yeah they have a charisma yeah there's something that makes them special they got the riz oprah's got the riz she does like buy the buckets she's great yeah did you riz up oprah did you try to like uh tangle or no but she loved my name so she did the whole like you've got a car like bravado with my name which was really nice.

57:57It was a special moment. Wait. I could have recorded it, you know? Yeah, can you – I don't know. Wait, how did she do your name? She just kind of went like in a deep place with my name, you know? Wow. I was like so excited to meet me, which is – I mean, that's how she is. Like she just acts like you're her best friend, but then you'll never hear from her again. No, probably not. Yeah. But it was great. It was an awesome moment to meet her. Do you like that Dolly Parton song, Jolene? I do. I like it. Yeah. it's funny because I never had heard it and then you go into a Starbucks and every single person's like singing it to you they bring it up a lot every day at least three or four times a day yeah I would hate that you would?

58:39yeah I don't know come on Alex would love it if I had a song about myself? if Beyonce comes out with a song tomorrow called Alex Alex would be like all over it no absolutely I mean there's so many Alex's when I go to Starbucks they're like Alex and there's like 10 of us. Yeah. Both girls and guys. Yeah, we're all out here. Any more questions for us before you finish your podcast with us? Yeah. Anything else you want to know? I have so many questions. Yeah, it is. That should be its own follow-up, I guess. No, rattle them off. No, rattle. Let's go. Yeah. Lightning round. Well, it's so hot. I'm like kind of distracted.

59:11Yeah, you're getting taped by the sun. Is this what you do for all guests, I guess? Are they always in like a heat sauna? We need to figure out what to do with the sun here, Kevin. It's not tenable for our guests or for me. Right. Yeah. I'm sweating up a storm over here. Well, I mean, we did the best we could. We tried. Your hair has gotten curlier throughout the episode. I mean, we tried. I mean, I typically wear a hat, but I don't want to sweat through the hat. Right. I did a podcast earlier in a tank top. Yeah. So I guess anything you want to promote before we get you out of here, get you out of the sun?

59:48No. I have nothing to promote go to Cherries oh sorry you're right I do have that to promote Cherries yes in Stone Ridge come there we've had some we've actually had some celebrities at Cherries wow calm out who was there okay Olivia Rodrigo you need to start you need to start taking pictures yeah get them on the wall okay that's what I was thinking yeah I wanted to do that with my Oprah picture and then my husband said that he didn't want it to look like Joe's Pizza in our living room oh I mean but I thought that'd be cool no just one little wall just a little just one little wall yeah I mean Olivia Rodrigo showed up you gotta okay sean mendez oh that's my guy yeah okay i love him he's great yeah um you know why to the show so my best friend scott writes all uh all all uh sean's music with sean he's got a house upstate not too far from cherries oh yeah that's probably why he was there they spent a lot of time to upstate have you seen them at cherries like on instagram i've posted i've never been to cherries well you'll come up this summer i need to go i don't have an upstate house.

1:00:46I'm not like, I'm not rolling in the dough like all you, you know, sort of design founders with upstate houses. You know, I'm not, I'm not at this level. I need to get there. That's why we, you know, we need to have more meetings so I can work on my, sort of how to get a upstate house and die trying. Yeah. Let's see who else. Rachel Weiss, Daniel Craig, Amanda Seyfried comes a lot. Ooh. Do you like her? I like that show. Get these photos on the wall. Yeah, get these photos on the wall. Okay. Remember she did the show about the Theranos. She was great in that show. Yes. Okay. Okay. Very good. And then back to your 11 seasons of Yellowstone, Kevin Costner came.

1:01:26Really? I've never seen Yellowstone, but I hear it's great. And all these bikers were taking pictures with him and I was like, I thought they wanted a picture like with the cherry sign. Cyclists or bikers? Like actual bikers. Sweet. Oh, like bikers. Yeah, we get a lot of bikers, like people who are doing like big motorcycle barcade. awesome do you guys have food at this place too we do they do it looks good they got thank you what type of food are we talking about we we kind of call it like a elevated dairy queen like shake shack type ask food you know we have vegan options though too just so tired i just don't understand how you do all these businesses and you have all these kids and you're just like not just exhausted all the time yeah i think we have like an iron deficiency problem it's like me yeah yeah i'm I mean, I have a little - How much sleep are we getting right now?

1:02:17I'm trying to get like eight to 10. That's too much sleep. You think so? I think the problem is, I think that's my hot take. I think you're getting too much sleep. I'm not getting eight to 10 every night. I'm only seven, you know, eight. I'm getting like five hours of sleep a night. Damn. Five hours of sleep? Yeah. How do you even live? Do you drink a lot of coffee or are you just like naturally - I drink coffee in the morning, but then I go to sleep around like 1 a.m. Whoa. And I wake up at six. You go to sleep at 1 a.m. and you wake up at six? 6.30. All right. There's the answer. We just figured it out.

1:02:43We got here. Finally, the end of the podcast. We figured it out. You get five hours of sleep and you go to sleep at one and you wake up at six? I feel like my body can't wake up any later. I try so hard on the weekends. I try to sleep later. My kids will even sleep later than me. Holy shit. I know. Built different. You are built different. Oh, have you ever watched on TikTok all the Chinese kids that are kindergartners? You have to watch this. It's phenomenal. where they're dribbling the basketball. Yes. Yeah. That's like my dream. That's my dream. It's to be a Chinese kid that can dribble the basketball.

1:03:16Yes, that can do that. You've seen that, right? And they're all like peeling and cooking in like rhythm. Yeah. It's phenomenal. You got enough people at work in the assembly. You could make that work. Should I try that? Yeah, that'd be great. Absolutely. Everyone's like, how long you've been dribbling this basketball for? Three years. Three years. February. I know. Exactly. That is my favorite insight that you brought to this podcast. Our studio had a little studio routine like that. Yeah, we need more moves, more dance routines, more organized bits. Yeah. You know? Yeah. We need to feed these TikToks.

1:03:51What are you doing for your offsite this summer? Yeah, I don't know if we're doing one this summer. We all got a lot of trips and stuff. We're going to cherries. I would love that. Let's do it. Yeah, take a little trip. We're working. We're working late. Wow. You know? Because we got work to do. Yeah. We got to grind, hustle. Right. You know, we got no time to go upstate and cook burgers and swim in pools. Yeah. Oh, come on. Work. In this economy? Come on. Well, we're doing an offsite. We could combine. Ah, where are you going? What are you doing with your offsite? We're going up to Wyndham. Okay.

1:04:23Beautiful. Skiing in the summer? Going to a ski club? It's a little cheaper. A little cheaper if you go in the summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're going to just, we do an offsite every summer. We call it offline. And we go upstate. and we'll do a cherries trip and then we'll hang out there and then come back. You should have called it the chilling assembly. Wow. Stick to design. Stick to design. I'm not a writer, you know? Listen, free ideas. Take them or leave them. Yeah. That could be the end is when you just name different ideas that you have that people could take. The not working assembly.

1:04:57Oh, that one's good. Thank you, Kevin. Thank you. The things that aren't working. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. working not working disassembly uh thank you so much for your time this was by far the most unhinged and off the rails podcast i don't know anyone's gonna listen to this and i honestly i think it was great i think it really was perfect and uh it makes me never want to prepare ever again for a guest yeah we're gonna okay so we are admitting that you never prepared so we are no we're no we're prepared that's our special sauce is that we don't prepare god because if but we are prepared but we prepare we just right we create the illusion that we're right yeah i I mean, listen.

1:05:33Illusion accomplished. Have you ever listened to Design Matters? Yes, of course. With Debbie Millman, the greatest podcast, design podcast of all time. She does a ton of research. So much, I know. We're the opposite. Yes. No research, just let it fly. I love Terry Gross. Do you ever listen to Terry Gross? Yeah. NPR? Nah, not for me. She's like Debbie, though. She's like so researched. She's like, tell me about when you were in sixth grade in this one time. Yeah, we didn't even get into anything you've ever done. Nothing, nothing. You put childhood question mark. goals question see it answered itself yeah we got there love it beautiful see you next time thank you for having me thanks for coming on

1:06:20Jolene Jolene Jolene Jolene Jolene Jolene Jolene I'm warning you don't come for my man

1:06:33Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene Don't take the chance because you think you can

1:06:45You're beautiful beyond compare Takes more than beauty and seductive stares To come between a family and a happy man

1:06:57Jolene, I'm a woman too The games you play are nothing new So you don't want no heat with me, Jolene We've been deep in love for 20 years I raised that man, I raised his kids I know my man better than he knows himself I can easily understand why you're attracted to my man but you don't want the smoke so shoot your shot with someone else

1:07:31Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene I'm warning you woman find you your own man Jolene, I know I'm a queen Jolene, I'm still a Creole Benji bitch from Louisiana

1:07:55There's a thousand girls in every room that act as desperate as you do. You a bird, go on and sing your tune, Jolie. What? I had to have to talk with you, cause I hate to have to act as fool you. Peers to peers, well now you've moved, Jolie. Me and my men cross those valleys, hide low, and hide. and everything between Good gear rolling like tumbling weeds Sleep good happy Cause you're paying to go by what plants should see I know my man's gonna stand by me Breathing in my gentle breeze Across those valleys Highs and lows And everything between The gear rolling like tumbling weeds

1:08:56Anic!

1:09:20Amen.