From The Vault: Brian Cox

30:01But by remiss. For instance, I had a headmaster at my primary school who needed, he would need what we call in Scotland messages, errands. He would need somebody to go for errands for him. And one of the things was to get a stylus for his gramophone that he had. He had a Phillips gramophone. And I would be sent off because he would look around the car and he said, I want somebody to go for a message for me. Could someone go and I would put my hand up and say, I'll go. So this was part of my education. So I would go off and I would wander off into the town, have a wonderful time, finally go to Largs, which was the shop, and order the stylus and then go, but I'd waste the whole day.

30:50My education was going down. So as a result, I failed my 11+. It was a disaster. But I was smart. I kind of knew I was smart, but I wasn't scholastically sure and there was presumably not a great deal of pressure on you at home to do your homework or anything like that pressure at all not at all I mean I didn't I mean I had no parental help whatsoever I mean I was none I mean absolutely zilch and therefore my education was pretty horrible I mean I was I failed at everything except I succeeded in some things but I usually got marks taken off for untidiness but you knew roughly where you wanted to be headed yeah I kind who did.

31:28I'm very fortunate. I mean, I realize how blessed I am when I look at people who struggle with knowing what they want to do with their life. I've never had that problem. And also, you magnetize people. When you're in a state, people come to you. There were two teachers at St. Michael's. There was a guy called Bill Dewar who really introduced me to the theater. Of course, I didn't know about the theater. And then there was a guy called George Hackett who was my registrar teacher who was a wonderful man and he just he just took care of me from a distance and these two men I realized were very important in my life and as older I get that I realized how important these two guys were because they they they were able to clear paths for me you know that I could go down a road and find something and with Bill it was you know being a member of the rep club going to the rep on a Wednesday afternoon at the age of 14 and I went and I'd never seen live theatre.

32:25I didn't know anything about live actors. I didn't know even such an animal existed in the theatre. And the theatre was always regarded slightly as a sort of relatively middle class pursuit. It wasn't as liberated as it became in the 60s. And my auntie Cathy used to go there. And she was very, very kind of middle class aspirant. The touch of the hyacinth bouquet. Exactly. and they used to Anthony Page who was the director of the theatre called them the felties because the women all wore these felt hats did either of these teachers did you keep in touch with them were they aware of I did for a bit but George your success George went to I had a wonderful thing recently I went to Australia recently and sadly I wanted to meet George but he was in his 90s and he passed away I missed him by about but they'd have been aware of what you're doing Oh, they were very aware.

33:23That's lovely. And Bill Joe died quite early on, so he didn't. But George was there, and in fact, what was so wonderful was that George's son is an artist, and as part of the celebration of the, well, not the celebration, but as part of the mourning process of their fathers, but there was also a celebration of his life. They had these little busts made of him, tiny little busts, and actually in some of the busts, They put ashes, bits of his ash in the bus and they gave it to friends. I didn't get the ash, but I got the bus. And there was George in his 90s. But I could still see the young George I knew.

34:01Oh, that's nice. So I've got that back home. And this is from a recent trip. I must just tell you briefly why I asked you that question. It's because Alan Johnson, the Labour politician who's an author now, was sitting there a couple of weeks ago. And he told me a story about the teacher in his life who was incredibly influential and formative. and he tracked him down after he'd been Home Secretary, after he'd made it big to say that. And the teacher had no idea who he was, had no memory of him whatsoever. So you're lucky. No, no, no. I was very lucky on that time. So you leave school at 15. Obviously not a great loss by your own account to academia.

34:38No, no. And certainly not from their point of view. I think they're happy to get rid of me. And there was rep in Dundee at the time and you slotted in quite... Yeah. Well, again, Bill Dewar got me the interview, so I was very grateful to him for that. And it happened to be that, again, circumstances. Circumstances play so much in one's life. Serendipity, isn't it? Yeah, serendipity. And he had a young man who had been at my school, and he'd gone down my road, and he had worked at the Rep, and his job was going. He was going to drama school, and his job was free, and it was a general factotum job.

35:12Basically, it was do what I used to know how to do, which was to go errands. I was very good at errands. And they would trust me, a 15-year-old boy, with the night's takings, which I took to the bank every day. And I thought, why did they trust me on that? I could have done a runner. But I used to take the money to the bank. And then eventually, after a while, they allowed me backstage. And then on stage at all? Or did that? Oh, yeah. No, I started. I was very lucky, actually. There was always tiny parts, like walk-on parts, that I would play, and I would show quite an imagination in playing these also.

35:49Would you? We'd be conscious of trying to make a little more of your role. Oh, yeah, exactly. I would do it. I remember I did the sort of paperboy and picnic, and I put blonde highlights in my hair. It's kind of weird. I mean, really strange stuff. And then eventually I sort of, you know, and I would take care of the actors. And, you know, one of my funny things was the late Lynn Redgrave, who just left drama school. She was at Central, and she came up to play Portia in Merchant of Venice. And after the first night, she couldn't find her wig. She'd lost her wig, and I was sent on a mission to find her wig.

36:29And I found her wig. It was in a waste paper basket by her dad. She'd take it and throw it in the waste paper basket. So I took the wig, and it was in a terrible state. So I went to the stage round, and I said, what do I do about the wig? And he said, well, see if you can get it fixed. I said, yeah, We haven't got any hair department here. So I went and bought this thing called, I think they were called Carmen rollers. And I rolled, I set Lin's wig, you know, every night. Well, not every night, every other night. Whatever it was necessary. There's no sense yet, Brian, of it feeling like a citadel that would be hard to breach.

37:05There's a sense of quite natural progression there. It was very organic. That's incredibly lucky. Yeah, it is. I think it's because it started so young. and I had the vision of it so young and I never bothered about it. I just got on with my life. I think I was blessed. I think I was remarkably blessed just in terms of where I could place myself and how people could place me and how people like Bill, like George who saw that I was a fish out of water saw that I was in a school which was so technically oriented. If you saw my boats that I made in the carpentry shop I mean, they wouldn't last for a day in the water.

37:43They would immediately be sinkable. And yet you knew you were good at this. I knew I was good at water. Not just that you liked it. You knew you were good at it. I knew I was good at it. I knew I had the ability. And I just needed to learn. Which is why you say it's on Lambda. Presumably, did you audition for all of the schools? No, no. Just this one? No, I was very influenced by this woman who sadly passed away last year. She was called Kristen Linklater. And she was a voice teacher. She's written a lot on The Voice. And she is the sister of Magnus Linklater, who was the editor of The Guardian, I think The Scotsman as well.

38:20And I think The Scotsman, I'm not sure it was The Guardian. Anyway, she came up to Dundee. And the guy who was the, you know, I worked with three directors mainly at Dundee, Pierce Haggard, Tony Page, Pierce Haggard, and a guy called Bill Davis. Now, Bill's interesting because he's Canadian. he's famous now Bill though he still basically he sees himself as a director not an actor but he's been acting but he's famous for playing the smoking man in the X-Files and Bill he was the director of the theater he said look we've got this we've got this young woman coming up from Lambda and that was the first time and I said Lambda he said well that's where I went to school and she's coming up she's going to do she's going to do some voice work And I had no idea what voice work was.

39:12And she said, well, I have a voice class. Would you like to come? I had no idea what that was. And I said, sure, I'll come. Yeah, I'm fine. Anything, you know. So they included me. And that was the other thing about them, that I was included. You know, and that was why it was never, it really was egalitarian in that sense. It's a huge recurring theme in your life, isn't it? This sense of being part of something bigger. That's right. That's right. And valued it. So immediately they said, OK, come up. and I went to this voice class and of course it changed me I just thought you know she works on this this woman called Iris Warren it's the method of how you and it's all about your breathing it's the most fundamental thing and how you breathe and how it comes the voice comes through the vocal cords and the less strain you put here and the more attention you give to this the diaphragm the voice works for you in a way which means that you don't lose your voice.

40:09I mean, I've lost my voice because I've overused it, particularly if I've been away. And then I come back and I do a... I remember going to Turkey once, coming back, and I felt great, sun and everything, and I did a night of Titus, and the following day I couldn't speak because I hadn't warmed up properly. So that... And I thought, that's where I want to go. I want to go to that school. And that was the only school I've had in mind. And I did an audition. I got in. How old were you when you got there? 17. Gosh. and I mean that is a culture shock isn't it? To go from your, albeit that you'd had an exposure to Well I'd been exposed to the theatre But not to London No, no London was Away from home for the first time?

40:48Away from home, you know First night I slept in a bathroom, I remember Yeah, I mean it was weird And you got stuck straight in? I got stuck straight in and then I was you know there was a wonderful guy I ran this girl called Michael McCohen, who's a great visionary, and great teachers, Norman Ayrton, and a wonderful woman who did called Patricia Arnold, who did the movement. So I was very lucky. And for the first time, you have peers now. Did you find your tribe? I mean, I know you felt part of a bigger community at various stages in your life, from the Lion Street gang through Tourette, but did you feel now that you were with your people?

41:29Yeah, I felt very much that this is where I should be. I immediately felt at home. And that's the thing about the theatre. I mean, it is. There is this feeling of being at home. And how ambitious were you? Oh, I was very ambitious. Were you? Yeah. I mean, that was one of the problems that I had to deal with. Right. It was my ambition. It was my great spiritual mentor, Fulton Mackay, the Scottish actor Fulton Mackay, used to say, oh, Brian, Brian, Brian, don't worry about being a star. Just be a good actor. And it was the best advice he ever gave me how long did it take you to take it? No, I did it quite quickly You did because I was getting you know You know I had very great early success.

42:11I mean my first West End appearance when I was 21, you know What was that it was as you like it from Birmingham rep So I you know and then I did Wonderful play with Alan Bates and Jimmy Bonham which we filmed directed by Lindsay Anderson's and Fulton actually was in that as well So but I knew Fulton from before I knew from when I started I started at the Lyceum in Edinburgh I went back to Scotland started there and had a year and then I went to Birmingham and then Birmingham is where I started playing all I mean, I played these roles before I was 22. I played Iago, Mercutio, Pier Gint, Bolingbroke, Orlando all before the age of 22.

42:48So you came out of the blocks at a hundred miles. Yeah Yeah, I did. I mean, I was terrible on all of them probably Of course you weren't. But, you know, but that was part of it. So the advice that Fulton Mackay gave you then was really addressing a desire to be a star rather than an actor? Yeah, because you've got that. Of course you do. And especially for me, because my influence right from the word go was the cinema, you know, was the movies. I mean, it was the pictures. That was in your sights. Yeah, and the pictures was already there, you know. As a complete aside, because If is my favorite film of all time, what was Lindsay Anderson like to work for?

43:23Fantastic. Fantastic. He was a wonderful director. He was a great, he was difficult. He had his own demons, as it were, which he never, there was never a disclosure about his demons. He was just there. And, but he had such, he was such a, an observer of the human condition. He really did, you know, because he was, essentially, he started as a documentary maker. So that was his great gift. and then he made these films like you know like the sporting life which i think is a great movie it's the big break for richard harris you know and so that was a fantastic film and then you know and then working with him when i did work with him and i you know i worked with him in 1969 we did the play and then later on five years later we did the we did the movie you know and it was no he was just amazing so does your career then go in stages are you I mean because you talk about that very early success and then by I think by 2007 the film council the UK film council is telling you you're one of the 10 most powerful British film stars in Hollywood 10 years before that you might have popped up in an episode of Sharp then you've got Hollywood it's almost impossible to to how can I put this It's almost impossible to knit a thread through your career.

44:44It's so well, it's not a gradient is it? Well, it is a form well It's more of a it's more of a heart machine No, it it there does come a point in one's in one's career It's horrible. It doesn't come a point in one's career The day there did come a point in my career where I had to reinvent myself, right? So there's a process of reinvention which takes you back, that means that the curve isn't a direct curve. So you're constantly, you know, and that's important because, you know, I mean, I look at actors, and no names, no pack draw, wonderful actors who stayed too long at the fair. Ah, okay. You know, who should have moved.

45:28They could always go back, but they should have moved because maybe they were at Stratford too long or maybe we're at the National too long. That's it. That's the key to understanding what I just asked you. Right there. And therefore, I thought, get in, get out. I'm a bit of a commando in that way. You go in, hopefully you score, sometimes you don't, and then you get out. And you wait for the next impetus to come along. And something that excites you is not going to be the thing you've been doing for the last five years. No, it's not going to be. But you can always go back to it. That's what, well, the thing about that, the thing you've done for the last five years never leaves you.

46:05That's always there. Of course. I mean, that's always in reserve. Yeah. And all that stuff you keep in reserve, you know, and it feeds you. In many ways, we're back to the curiosity that's driven you since childhood, aren't we? We're back to the sense of wanting new experiences and new things. Yeah. I mean, and that hasn't changed, which is why I did. Which is why you've done the new project. That's right. And it's exactly that, you know, it exactly comes to that. because also, you know, and everybody goes, oh, here you are now, you know, and it's very hard, you know, playing Logan Roy because everybody knows who I am.

46:35Yeah. Is that the first time? More or less. I mean, people always sort of, oh, you're, weren't you in, you know, always that went on. But now I'm known for the man who says, fuck off, you know, all the time. So, you know, if my mother knew that would become my catch, she'd be doing backflips in her grave. Oh, no. God, the shame. The shame of it. You know, so it's kind of weird. But again, it's only a stop. Yeah, of course. For me, it's not the end stop. It's just, you know, there's the Logan Roy years. This too will pass. And hopefully I'm still around and I've still got enough capacity, you know, brain capacity to go on.

47:15Let's just pick a couple of things that people would be fascinated to know more about. I mean, you did. You talk about Stratford and you were in Lear when Olivier was playing there. You played the Duke of Burgundy. I did. That was on the television, yeah. I was supposed to play another part, and that was for another great director in my life, who's the father of Marianne Elliott, Michael Elliott, who was a genius director, absolutely genius director, who then very bravely, you know, he'd run the Vic at one point, and he was part of that. He then moved to Manchester to the Royal Exchange and created the Royal Exchange in Manchester, which was a pretty formidable theatre, particularly.

47:54It still is, but it was particularly formidable, and its inception, you know, which was really in the mid-'80s. Yeah, Robert Lindsay's been on, full disclosure, and he was very much part of that period. Robert did a lot up there. He did his Hamlet there and everything. But Michael was a great influence for me, just a man of incredible integrity, I mean, fierce. And kind of, you know, sort of his father was the Buckingham Palace's dean. You know, he was in St. Michael's. He's named after St. Michael's Chester Row. He was a minister, you know, and very, very big, very big kind of sort of influence on Mike and Michael, you know, and that sort of purity of vision.

48:41You sound almost like a magpie when you talk about people in a good way, in the sense of what you can learn from them and what you can take from an encounter in a relationship and a working practice. It's so important. I don't mind that magpie thing because it's how you learn. But you teach as well. I do teach. But there's no one way. There's a series of routes. There's a series of routes you can take. There's a series of spiritual paths you can take. I'm all for pursuing anything if it's self-improving, if it's meaning that you're still with the program and you're not going off at some kind of...

49:24And that's what ambition does. I mean, ambition, the wrong kind of ambition kind of takes you away from really your essence, that thing that is in an eight-year-old child. Was there a point at which you thought, I'm okay now, at which you thought I've... Because to begin so quickly with such amazing work, did you get too early a sense of security? I know actors always answer this question by saying I never feel any sense of security. But you're never going to be going to the workhouse, are you? No, no, no. I mean, you know, it's hard to describe because it's not stable. But that's also why you love it, because of its instability.

50:09Okay. You know, but it's possible. Was there a sense, I've made it now ever, in professional terms? Did you ever have that? No, I mean, I knew I was doing well. Yes. But I never got to the point where, because if you say I've made it, you immediately put an end stop on something. Again, it's that constant moving forward. Yeah, it's about moving forward all the time. You don't end stop anything, you know, and that's why, you know, somebody like logan roy is not it's a stop on the career but it's not an end stop in itself yeah and and that i mean that keeps you grounded as much as anything else and it keeps you fresh and it was fascinating hearing you talk about um about how the other half live almost as part of the process of playing logan roy it helps you put in a better performance when you've got some sort of better as you talk about self-improvement that can be understanding things that can be a method of self-improvement having a better understanding of how someone can live with epic wealth for example that's right and and and of course you you you learn and what was very important for me and what was tough for me about doing the program was judging because i could easily because of my where i come from politically i could easily start to judge but you can't do that you're very generous to some of the very very wealthy people that did agree to speak to you yeah but i think one has to be because in a way they're more fragile it's very interesting they're as fragile as somebody who is extremely poor yes you know they and you go what do you mean they're fragile well they're fragile because of the because they know that they've done it i mean like john cordwell for example i mean the car phones guy isn't it yeah so he was fascinating to me because and he's a man that i could have easily gone in full judgmental yes i could have easily done that but that would not have been helpful and what's interesting what interests me and what interests me as an actor is what motivates you.

52:01What does it come from? Where does it come from? And you have to understand that people, some people do have entrepreneurial spirits. Now, John Caldwell, for example, he sold comics out of his backyard, out of his back window when he was six. He would sell his comics. And then he would say to his pals, what do you do with your old comics? They said, well, we just throw them. Well, give them to me. And of course, that's where his entrepreneurial skills finally led him because that's what he believed. That was his raison d 'etre. And you've got to respect that. I mean, you can judge it all you like, but you've got to respect the fact that people are motivated by not what is obvious.

52:41They're motivated by usually circumstances where there's always an element of deprivation, whether it's deprivation of the spirit or deprivation of the soul. There's an element that drives you forward. So if there's a mystery that you're trying to solve with the show, it's how these two states can coexist in the same society. And that's the answer. That's the answer. And also, it's not a good answer. No, of course it isn't. It's a bad answer because you realize that some people, you know, it's like I'm lucky because I knew what I wanted to do. But I know people whose lives have been so unhappy because they didn't know what they wanted to do.

53:20You know, they didn't have a vision of what their life could be. And one cannot be judgmental on that. One has to be understanding and kind and realize what your life was isn't what everybody's life is. You know, we're back to your dad a bit, I think, because when people couldn't pay their bills and your mom would think that they were possibly taking advantage, your dad would reach for an explanation from their lives that accounted for why they were who they were. And the throwback, the comeback, rather, to that was like recently, well, last year, I'd written this book, and I was in Dundee promoting it.

53:58And there was a man who was in his 80s who stood up in Bury Ferry, and he said, your dad was so kind to me when I was a kid, and he gave me so much care and attention. He said, I'll never forget it. I'll carry it with me to my grave. And you go, that was my dad. That was what my dad gave another human being. You know, I mean, a journalist in Dundee, Lorraine Wilson, her parents were struggling, young couple struggling. My dad helped them out. And my dad would go and decorate somebody's apartment, an old couple's apartment after he finished work at 10 o 'clock at night. It drove my mother crazy.

54:36But that's who he was, you know. What would he have made of who you've become? Well, I think he'd be rather pleased. I would hope so. I think he'd be rather pleased because I don't think I've forgotten who I am. Well, you clearly haven't. I mean, the eight-year-old is in the room with us now. Yeah, he's very much so. He's never left it. He's never left. We should talk a bit about this astonishing current chapter. Did you have an inkling when you first saw Jesse's script that this was going to be absolutely huge? Well, you're very lucky if you can see Jesse's script at all. Is that how it works?

55:05You just get given it? It's one of the best-kept secrets until you start to actually perform it. I mean, we've been having a lot of problems with the script. because they get later and later. That's the writer's thing. Of course. Don't get me started on writers. They're great. They're wonderful, but they're late. They get nine months to make the program and finally we're saying, oh, we've just finished episode whatever it is now and it's coming to you. You start filming on Monday and we're supposed to do instant acting. Of course. And the lack of understanding of what we do as actors just drives me nuts.

55:40Well, you're just tools. Well, exactly. For the vision of the writer. We are to us for the vision, and that's what we have to do. Oh, know your place. Know your place, exactly. It's very, yeah, it's, what's the word? You know, everybody in their place. Of course. But did you know? I mean, did you know early on? Well, I did, you know, when they did the pitch to me. I mean, it was a pitch, actually. It was not a script. Right. And I was here. Actually, I was, I have a, I live in New York, but I was at a place here. So I was in my flat here, and I got this phone call. My manager said, they're going to call you.

56:21They're interested in you for this show that they want to do. And Adam McKay, or we would say McKay, but Adam McKay, I've never understood why they do that in America, but they do. Adam McKay and Jesse Armstrong, who's the show creator, is going to call you. Well, Jesse Armstrong was in Italy. Adam McKay was in L.A. So we had a three-way conversation. And they pitched the show to me. And I knew straight away, I thought, this is a winner. Because also, you know, I mean, Jesse would hate this probably. But, you know, those shows have always been very successful. If you think of Dynasty, if you think of Dallas, you think of all those shows that have dealt with that.

57:04They've always worked. Falcon Crest. They've always had a sort of value to them. So I knew that this show would work. one level. Because of that dynamic. Because of that dynamic. It's a great dynamic. And of course in Jesse's hands it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal because he is a phenomenal writer and he's tough as old get out. I mean he's a tough guy. Oh yeah. He doesn't appear to be but he is. He gets what he wants. He gets what he wants. He's a man who gets what he wants you know and he does what he wants as well so there's no getting around that. And that's fine. Because that feeds you and And Logan is a great role.

57:41And I think I've also brought something to it in a way that was not necessarily originally there that came more and more as I became involved with the role. And that's why I have great empathy for Logan. I don't see him as the villain that everybody else sees him as. Well, naturally, I wouldn't see him as a villain because you don't judge your character. It would be fatal to do that. And again, as again has run through this whole conversation, it's very, very much a community piece, an ensemble apiece. That's right. And that's that's the great strength of our group. Absolutely. We have an amazing group and we have, you know, actors like McFadgen, Sarah Snook, Jeremy Strong, lovely Kieran.

58:27I mean, they're all so extraordinary. Alan Rock, you know, they all they're just a great group to work with. And that would be the saddest thing when the show eventually comes to an end, is the people I've been working with. And that's always a sad thing. When anything ends, it's the people you've been working with. It's not so much the venture, it's the actual community again that you've been part of or you've created. You talk about having sympathy or empathy for the character Logan Roy. That's why some of the obvious attempts to make it about the Murdochs or about Rupert Murdoch, that's where they fail, isn't it?

59:01Well, I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that, James, because I think that's absolutely true. I think that the point is they're not the Murdochs. They are a little bit more aware than the Murdochs, and that's what gives it more edge. So that Logan knows that he's made choices in his life in the same way that John Cardwell has made choices in his life. And you stand and fall by those choices. It's not for one to judge what those choices are. It's for one to accept that these are his set of circumstances, and you have to acknowledge those certain circumstances and understand that that's part of the human dilemma, that we achieve harmony through considerable cost, but it's worth it.

59:50And I think that that's what's so interesting about Logan. I have a great empathy for Logan because I see Logan's journey as one of deprivation. I don't see it as, I think he is deprived, even though he seems to be the richest man in the world, but he's a very angry man. And he's very angry because there's something that's missing at the fundament of his life, which is love and care that he never had. He certainly had this mother, but when he went to, the idea was that he was, well, initially the guy was born in Quebec, Canada, And then they changed it and they had him born in Dundee, which he only changed on the ninth episode of the first series.

1:00:28When they came and said, you know, Peter Friedman said, oh, by the way, they've changed your birthplace. And I went, what? They've changed your birthplace. I said, you're no longer born in Quebec. Now, I always thought it was odd I was born in Quebec anyway, because I'm not sure Jesse's very good at geography, because originally he said it's an American character. He's American. He's American. As far as I know, Quebec is in Canada. So he would be Canadian. But that came to me late because I was playing an American and then I discovered he was born in Quebec. And then he said, oh, you left Quebec very early.

1:01:04He doesn't remember Quebec. So I went, oh, that's fine. But then when they suddenly, on the ninth episode, Peter Friedman said, they've changed your birthplace. And I said, so what do you mean they changed my birthplace? He said, you're no longer born in Quebec. I said, so where am I born? And he had to go to his diva. I said, oh, I can't remember. He went to his vice. He said, oh, yeah, here it is. Yeah, you're born in somewhere called Dundee, Scotland? How funny. How delightful. I said, but that's where I was born. And then he said, oh, that's a coincidence. I said, that's a hell of a coincidence.

1:01:39I said, what is he talking about? I mean, you know, I'm not born in Dundee. And then I went to Jeremy and Jesse. And he said, oh, we thought it'd be a little surprise. This is writer's voice. We thought it'd be a little surprise. And so, I mean, they do talk to you as if you're about three years old and you've just got a bunch of sweeties in your stocking or something. Put them on there, give them a biscuit. It'll be all right. Off you go, off you go. Exactly. Go and do your acting. Go and do your acting. Exactly. And I just thought, wait a minute, wait a minute. Oh, that's lovely. And then he said what he'd said about Quebec, but he left Dundee very early.

1:02:15You know what I'm saying? I went, oh, I see. But it's fascinating to hear you describe that, because the character is searching for a hole, to fill a hole he doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the hole. You couldn't be more different. You are a very fulfilled man. Yeah. Yeah, to a certain extent. I mean, I still have my... Of course you do. I still have my... But there's not a gaping hunger inside you. No, no, no, not at all. I mean, there never was. No, that's what I thought. No, there was never a gaping hunger. I mean, I'm very blessed. I really, I mean, whatever that means. But I've been very lucky, even though I had the most, really, if you look at it, terrible childhood.

1:02:58Yes, of course. But I never felt that. I just felt that this was part of the journey. And then I had to just sit, you know, I didn't want, you know, there was no point changing carriages. The carriage was overcrowded and that was the way it was. You've got to crack on. We come then to the final questions, the two final questions. You talk about the journey in professional terms. I couldn't even begin. We'd need another hour just to list your CV, and then I'd probably have forgotten half of it. Like me. Well, I was going to ask you that, actually. Were there so times you go, oh, yeah, I was in that?

1:03:30Well, somebody said to me the other night, they said, oh, you were in perfect scroungles. And somebody was saying, I'm about to direct my first movie. So I was meeting the guy who's going to possibly be my, well, I think he will be my first assistant. and he said oh yeah we worked together before many many years ago in a show called perfect scoundrels i went perfect he said with peter bowles yes and i said oh peter bowles when i knew peter quite well yeah i said and then i'm oh yeah i'd forgotten all about that fantastic do you have standout moments you must have asked this question many times but but in career wise Yeah.

1:04:08Oh, yeah. I mean, my, you know, working with Lindsay was a big standout moment for me. And learning to be. You know, his great note to me was, you know, after the opening up play we had in celebration, it's a son who comes back for his, and he's had a nervous breakdown, the son. And ironically, he's a careers officer at a school, which is one of the ironies, a nervous breakdown. So he comes back to the family. And he hasn't been there for some time. So he has to walk into the house and remember this house that he hasn't visited for probably a couple of years. And Lindsay made me do it again and again and again.

1:04:46And eventually Lindsay said, oh, Brian, Brian, Brian, don't just don't just do something. Stand there, you know. And it was a great note because it meant that I just didn't have to work it. I just had to be it. And that was a great moment for me in my career. And then later on, when I discovered my other element to me, which is my Scottish side, which is much more to do with those extraordinary actors like Duncan McRae, Fulton Mackay, wonderful actor called Callum Mill, who were brilliant comedians. They were brilliant comic actors, but they always had this sort of rigor about them as actors. And physicality, they were quite physical.

1:05:27So I remember going to India and doing the Scottish play. And I had this Kattak girl. She was 16. She was a kid. She was my dresser. And she said, you know, she was very, very praiseworthy. But she said, you know, Mr. Cox, I watch your work and I feel that you want to move more. Oh, wow. And I went, oh, really? And she said, yeah. I said, oh, OK. So she had me, I had her stand in the wings and watch me do the scene. And eventually she had me crawling all over the floor. And it was such a... How old were you? I was, my, how old was I? I was 30, 35, 34. And I had a great, it was a great revelation.

1:06:13And then seven or eight years later, I worked with Deborah Warner. And this was a really standout thing. And I did Titus Andronicus, which is a play nobody ever touches. That's horrible. Because it's a... Horribly good. It's an incredible play, but people don't go near it. So I was given the role, and we couldn't get a director for it. We got people that wanted to do it, but they wanted to do something else. And then Deborah Warner came along, and that was a major thing in my theatre career. I could carry on this part of the conversation forever, but let me... And I think you've alluded to what your next answer might be with your next project.

1:06:53But do you have any ambitions left? Yeah, well, I want to direct my first movie. It's exciting. Which I hope I can live. I live long enough to do it. No, I'm going to do that next year. I'm in the process of we had the green light from Lionsgate. And it's kind of nerve wracking because when you're waiting for a movie to get made, you're very excited. Yeah, well, and then it happens and you go, now what? Jump. Now what? Yeah. And it's the writer is a guy I've worked with for many years called David Ashton. And I did a series on the radio because the radio, it's my favorite medium. Yes. Because you don't have to wear makeup.

1:07:34You don't have to learn your life. Tell me about it. You don't have to do any of that. So I did the series called McCleavy, which was about a Scottish detective in Edinburgh, which was a huge, you know, we used to get a million listeners. And I'd done that over a number of years. and he and I, this producer actually put it, well, he's known us both for years, and he said he commissioned this script and it's our love letter to Scotland. So it's about a family-owned distillery in Scotland. That's interesting. Which is difficult because so far I've approached some actors and some of the actors I've approached, I won't say no names, no pack drill, are alcoholics or recovering alcoholics.

1:08:14So it's kind of weird that I'd forgotten about. You can't put temptation in their way. You know, they wouldn't necessarily want to be connected with something that was about a distillery. Thank you. We'll look out for that. The new TV show, How the Other Half Live with Brian Cox. Do we know when it's out? It's out tomorrow night. And it will be available then on the platforms. Brian Cox, thank you so much. Thank you. What a delight. It's an absolute pleasure.

1:09:00This is a Global Player original podcast.