TimTam's Mom (aka Podcasting Guru Julie Shapiro)

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1:06Something I've always been drawn to, which is like this idea that you're tending to something else. You're thinking outside of your own world. And, you know, more and more, we're just so consumed with our own world. We track everything. We record everything. We share everything. And I just love having now, especially these creatures that are like unconditionally are there for you. I'm Jen Morose, and this is a bonus episode of Furball Confidential. I know, I know, I said season one was over, and it really is. But then I learned Julie Shapiro just got a dog, and I couldn't resist. If you've been around the podcast space, you know exactly who Julie is.

1:49But if you don't, she's a bit of a podcasting legend. Julie's known for her beautiful audio storytelling. She co-founded the Third Coast Audio Festival and was a long-time artistic director there too. She was also executive producer of Ear Hustle, which won critical acclaim for taking listeners behind prison walls and actually humanizing the inmate experience. Julie's also the co-founder of a really cool art project called Audio Flux. Contributors are asked to create an audio story in three minutes according to a specific theme and a set of prompts. One of the themes they've explored? You guessed it, pets.

2:29And you can bet we're going to talk about that. But the real reason we're here is that Julie herself is a big pet person and just welcomed Tim Tam into the family. Julie, it is so great to have you on Furball Confidential. welcome. Oh, this I am so excited to be talking with you because this is one of my favorite concepts and podcasts imaginable, just talking about animals all day long. I know, right? For the especially for this moment. And yes, you have a new one in your life. I always be sure do.

3:07Julie Shapiro: Tim Tam joined us just over a month ago. We are in the total honeymoon period where we we just all have hard eyes all day every time we see him. And even when he's a little rambunctious or naughty, we're still like, no problem. It's, you know, we love you. And it has changed, you know, upended everything. And it's like happy chaos reigns now in our household. So what does happy chaos look like? Like how old is Tim Tam? Well, actually, according to the papers from the shelter where we adopted him, Salem, Massachusetts. Shout out to the MSPCA. He is one year old so he is just a pup and who knows I mean but he acts like a pup and he seems very pupish.

3:53He's an Australian Kelpie slash Pit mix so he's very sleek. He's kind of almost deer-like like just you know big boned but and he's a kind of this dusky brown almost black but a little bit between a black and a brown and the ears like he had me at the ears. I mean, it's so cliche because everything I think about is listening

4:17Julie Shapiro: in audio, but his ears are so expressive and he just had the face. You know, you just kind of know it when you look. And he was excited at the shelter, but he calmed down kind of quickly. And he was only like really the second dog we looked at. And so we were weighing the kind of, there's lots of dogs out there, should we wait? But then why wait? And we just ended up deciding to bring him home and we changed his name because um Bruce just didn't speak to us I have good friends named Bruce nothing against the name just wasn't quite right for the dog um but Tim Tam comes from so we spent um it's an it's it's an Australian cookie it's like the best Australian cookie okay if you know you know it's funny it's like a litmus test when we when we meet people and I say his name is Tim Tam they either say Tam Tam yeah they go oh like I like the cookie.

5:08I like the cookie. And we lived in Australia for a few years when Finn was two and a half. I was working for the ABC there. That's right. And so I was like, well, let's take a look at this.

5:21Julie Shapiro: We love cookies. We love Tim Tams. We love Australia. We love this dog. And the name, you can do a million things with it, which is, you know, the hallmark of a good pet name, of course. Yeah, they have to have multiple, like, multiple nicknames. Variations on a name. Do you have any good nicknames yet? Oh, goodness. Well, I realized a couple weeks ago when I got sort of stern with him, I could say Timothy. Timothy Shapiro Braddock. But Tim Tam, Timber Tamber, Tim to the Tam Tam. I mean, the list goes on and on. Timmy. I thought Timmy would be a nice dog name, but it's sort of we're getting used to saying Tim Tam.

6:00Julie Shapiro: And I think he finally is getting it through his, you know, Bruce is getting pushed out of muscle or brain memory. and Tim Tam starting to take hold. Yeah, you described it as happy chaos, which creates a picture for me. But what does that look like in your household and what were things like before and how have things changed now with? Yeah, well, we have two cats. So a couple of times a day, still want to hear like a scrambly, you know, claws on the floor as he runs into the other room to see what the cats are doing. They stand their ground. It hasn't, there's been no bloodshed. There's been no fur flying, but there were I would say in the first two weeks there were a couple of those moments where you'd come around the corner and look in the room and it's just like a bomb went off in the room like he got into you know piles of things and shred he got the paper towel roll every dog must at some point ripped up a New Yorker he's shredded two beds you know but it started to pull the stuffing out so that looks very violent even though it's just stuffing so just a couple of those moments where or you'll hear from the other room like uh oh oh and you're like oh what did he get into so um it's just kind of that's just that awareness that we're always have to be aware where he's at um and you know i kind of appreciate that sense of attending to him and taking care of him it's very rewarding because he's super super sweet and when he's um you know most of the day he just sits around and is cute and we pet him and play with him.

7:29Julie Shapiro: So it's been nice. I think there's a little bit of envy because I'm spending so much time with him. I've never, this is, I'm working from home now, which has huge advantages. And one of them is you can become best friends with the new dog because you're with him all day long. And you take him and he gets me up and out of the house. I just actually got back from a trip around the block, ran into Birdie, his head and his friend from down a couple of houses down. And I just feel like it's so healthy to have the creature around that both gets you moving and also just that you have to be aware of and thinking about it.

8:05Yes, it grounds you. But also it opened up a whole other world to me when I got a dog in terms of the conversations I'd have because you meet people, too, through your dog, right? Like it's a whole new social channel. Yes. And I'm remembering from a long time ago, I had another dog, beloved Thurston, rest in peace. And that was like two decades ago. But I remember that dynamic of standing around, chit-chatting with people at the dog park. You sort of get to know people. And a big change for me has been, you know, normally I'm listening to podcasts all day long. So when I go out for exercise in the mornings, when I'm doing the dishes, of course.

8:47and now I really don't I don't always not listen when I'm walking him but I would say 75 percent of the time I would prefer not to listen to anything because you it's so important to to see what he's hearing hear what he's hearing understand where his attention is focused on and even coming upon people you know when you have earbuds and it's just that obnoxious thing where you have to like tap the earbud and turn the podcast off and it's just so nice I feel liberated actually to just take the dog out listen to the birds especially now it's starting to warm up so the birds are going nuts um and and it's you know a safety precaution when you have a new dog who's you got to hear people coming up or if someone's barking in the distance or if he is startled by something i need to be ready to sort of comfort him and or divert attention the other thing i was thinking about that's really noticeable since we got the dog is how much um you know i don't post a lot uh on social media about my kind of personal life as much but of course i posted about him because it was sort of an homage to this dog I used to have, who hundreds of people knew by the time he had lived his nice long life.

9:52But he comes up in every conversation because I bring him up in every conversation. You know, it just feels like such a big deal to tell people I haven't talked to in a while or haven't talked to since three days earlier. We got a dog. Oh, my God. And my sister and I are on WhatsApp all day long or signal. And so, you know, she receives most of the pictures and sends most of the pictures. And it's just become this torrent of, you know, sharing and hearting and loving and must share. And, you know, it's really changed the substance of many of my conversations. You might have caught that second reference to a beloved dog Julie had back in her 20s.

10:29His name is Thurston. And I think you'll agree we need to know a bit more about him. Yeah. Yeah.

10:37Julie Shapiro: I sort of irresponsibly adopted Thurston when I was in Boulder, Colorado at university. And he was a stray that had come back with some frat boys from some party in the mountains. Oh, wow. Someone in my, remember, feminist studies class had sort of saved him from the irresponsible frat boys and was like, you know, could someone adopt this dog? So I took him on and he just became my constant companion. He'd just truck around campus with me. I was working in record stores starting from that time of my life. And he was like the record store dog. We road tripped together. I mean, he was just one of those dogs that could just come along everywhere.

11:16And he sort of grew a reputation in my friend circles. so people would come up to me and say, oh, you're Thurston's mom, like all the time.

11:25Julie Shapiro: And his reputation preceded me. And I think this is why I have not had a dog since he died because, and that was like over 20 years ago, he just was so, you know, how do you match that? It's hard. And how disappointing to have a dog that you can't take everywhere and that people don't like as much and you don't like, you know. So it was, you know, this decision to get a dog this year just came from like living in a house with a teenager feeling like things had just gotten a certain way and I was like how do we shake things up a bit for all of us and then I read you know I sort of saw someone on the bike path with their dog and I thought oh yeah I want to be the person on the bike path with the cute dog um so it was a kind of a we'd been talking about it for a few years and always said no well we have the cats and our house isn't that big and we travel a lot and um but it we sort of we got over all those hurdles of like, yeah, there's a million reasons not to do anything, especially bring a new animal into your house.

12:21Julie Shapiro: But we just decided to do it. And then, yeah, I had Thurston in the back of my mind just for temperament. Just I was really hoping we could find someone that could be that generous a spirit. And I think, you know, they're different dogs, of course. But we're so, so happy with Tim Tam. And I feel like he is sort of filling some Thurston-shaped paw shoes in some way. We've been talking a lot about dogs, but Julie grew up with animals and has two cats now, too. And if you know Audioflux, you know the logo is a cat. Well, actually. A sand cat, a baby sand cat. A what kind of cat? Sand cat. They live in the desert.

13:06Julie Shapiro: They're sand cats. How did you decide on, well, we know you started off being a pet person. And so cats are in the wheelhouse, but then Sand Cat, where'd that come from? Well, it's funny because I've just always been inclined towards animal logos. I just, you know, I feel like they're, I helped found this festival called the Third Coast International Audio Festival. And the first run at a logo was like a really traditional, boring microphone. It was just like so ho-hum. And when we decided to sort of step into the feeling of what we were trying to build with the festival, we worked with these great designers.

13:42And they came up with a pigeon, actually. And so Pidgey became the Third Coast Mescoff. And I've thought about that a lot. And then with Audio Flux, so this was a brand new project that I was starting with a friend called John Delore. And we just wanted to create a home for short form, experimental, innovative, expansive audio storytelling. And when we were first starting up, John texted me pretty late one night, what's your spirit animal?

14:11Julie Shapiro: Just out of the blue. And I was like, ah. And we know like it's not, we don't really talk about spirit animals anymore. But I knew what he was getting at right away. I knew it had to do with AudioFlex. And so I was thinking, I was like, well, you know, horse is just too obvious because everyone knows me for my horse girl obsession. And then I was thinking about a friend who had a punk rock band called the Sandcats. And through that band, I learned of these incredibly ridiculously cute looking breed of cat that live in the desert. They're very hardy. They're kind of bigger than domestic cats, but not much bigger.

14:45And they have these ears that are just like a mile, mile, ears for miles. And so we were thinking, oh, for an audio project about listening, they would be, you know, elephants too obvious if you're just going for big ears. So we started looking around at Sanket Images and found this incredible baby Sanket image online and shared that with a designer who worked with us. And she came up with the current Fluxy mascot for audio. Okay. So I feel like animals really do have a fairly strong current in your life. What is it about, I know you said you grew up with pets, which would influence your relationship with animals, but what is it about animals for you?

15:30Julie Shapiro: I think that something you said at the beginning of the conversation, like especially right now, the distraction they provide because they're living creatures and you can't, they don't go away. You know, you have to really, I can remember, I grew up Jewish and we were not kosher, but I remember at some point a rabbi came to our house to explain the rules of being kosher. They were probably, you know, just trying to convince more people in the congregation. And one thing he told me that has stuck with me all the time is it's not kosher to eat before you have fed your pets. Like it is kosher law to feed your pets before you eat.

16:04Julie Shapiro: Or I don't know if it's in the Bible, but like this is I just remember this point. And it's something that just stuck with me, that sort of stewardship and the commitment to taking care of something. And that little lesson has stuck with me for, you know, so many years, decades and decades. And I think it just encapsulates something I've always been drawn to, which is like this idea that you're tending to something else. You're thinking outside of your own world. And, you know, more and more, we're just so consumed with our own world. We track everything. We record everything. We share everything.

16:34And I just love having now, especially these creatures that are like unconditionally are there for you.

16:40Julie Shapiro: I mean, cats maybe, you know, they're on their own clock in time, but they're there. And I think there's something humble about having animals. It's like humans are just so obsessed with ourselves and how we live in the world. And I think that having animals is very humbling. Their priorities are very different. And they just have a lot to teach if you're just kind of just living with pets. Just listen, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. About yourself, about the world around you, about other people. It's constant. It's a constant, constant building of experience through having pets. This seemed like a pretty good place to bring up Pet Sounds, that Audio Flux project I told you about in the intro.

17:22We're actually going to play one for you, but let's let Julie set things up a bit first. So, okay, Audio Flux, twice a year now we run a circuit. We call them circuits where we put a call out and invite people to make short works, three-minute audio works that are inspired by a theme and a set of prompts. And for each circuit, we work with a different creative partner to design the prompts. And it's based on their artistic practice. So these aren't other audio practitioners. These are poets and writers. And a radical knitter was one partner. And a 3D photography enthusiast was one creative partner.

18:03and for the Pet Sounds circuit, it was our third one. We're about to announce our seventh. So we've done six. And I'm just going to interrupt you for a second. So any of you audiophiles out there, we're going to share the information for this next round. So if you want to contribute, Julie will fill you in at the end. Back to you. Yeah. And even if you don't fancy yourself an audiophile, but you always wondered and felt like you may want to try making an audio story, this is the project for you. so for circuit three one thing i will say about audio flux is like it's a project full of serendipity there's so much about coincidence and timing and i happened to i was waiting on someone in new york city in in manhattan for a meeting and he was running late so i walked into this houseware store called fish's eddie um people might be familiar with it it's been around for a long time just kind of wandered to the back and ran into this man who paints pet portraits and he has a little studio set up in the back of the store and i was immediately in love with his pet portraits there and and what if you just see them you'll you would understand why maybe we can point to his website or put some pictures up yes we'll put it in the show notes name please ben lenovitz um

19:16Julie Shapiro: and so ben lenovitz sits in the back of this store and apparently travels to japan and does this too and just paints portraits for people of their pets and so we started talking and i told him about audio flux and immediately it just like one thing led to another i said would you ever be interested in collaborating on an audio project and he was so in for he was into it and in for it because he loves podcasts himself um he's listening all day long and the thing he told me he's like yeah it's so interesting because people tell me so many stories when i'm painting the portraits so he's surrounded by stories and narrative he hears them all day long so we partnered with ben and what we did at what we do for every circuit is come up with a theme and some prompts for people to respond to.

19:58And the theme, we just thought, you know, pets, animals. So we called it Pet Sounds, thinking that if the Beach Boys estate wanted to sue us, that would be great

20:06Julie Shapiro: press. It would get a lot of attention for AudioFlex. But alas, alas, they did not come after us. So, but basically we said, make a story, a three minute story with a pet protagonist or antagonist. And you had to include the color blue, because if you look at Ben's portraits, They're mostly blue backgrounds. And then we always have a sound prompt. So he always writes the name of the pets in all caps, letters in black. So we said, insert a moment of quote unquote all caps emphasis in your story. So there had to be a moment that like sonically jumped out as if it was in all caps. And those were the prompts.

20:43Okay, so we're going to play one today. And it's so hard to choose because they're all so good. But one really stuck with me. It's called Magnus the Maine Coon, and it just captures so beautifully the role of a pet in someone's life and also like what it's like to lose them after all that. Can you tell us a little bit about where this one came from, Julie, and who submitted it? All right.

21:11Julie Shapiro: I'm like practically tearing up even introducing it. And that is a warning to listeners. Grab a Kleenex. So Magnus the Maine Coon was produced by Jasmine Morris, who's a really accomplished audio producer. It's a little bit of a spoiler, but she says it pretty much right away. The timing of when we put this call out was just so fortuitous for us, not for her. Actually, Magnus had just died. And so we were inviting stories about audio and she was grieving her cat. And I just think about like if this call had come six months later, she might have not decided to make anything. She might have been past that moment where processing her emotions through making an audio story would help.

21:57but it wasn't it was it was very soon after and so she had all of these recordings that she had kept throughout Magnus's life of and and as her own family grew and how that you know how he became part of the larger family and made this beautiful beautiful homage to him and so yeah it's three minutes long and yeah just prepare prepare to feel some feelings this is Magnus a 17 year old fluffy, heavy, tiger-striped Maine Coon Cat, who's always known the exact right time to climb onto my chest and purr. That low, constant rumble has been the soundtrack to my entire adult life. That's January 19th, 2012.

22:41My boyfriend, Nate, and I are living in New York City. I travel a lot for work, have a few surgeries. We live in lots of different apartments. Magnus is there. July 30th, 2012. Nate and I get engaged and then married. Magnus is there. July 16, 2015. Two miscarriages, a move up state, IVF. We get pregnant and have our child Madigan. Magnus is there. Hey, Meg. Seems to be doing pretty good today. Yeah. He looks sleepy. Yeah. It's April 3, 2004, I knew something was going on with Meg. He wasn't eating. I gave him an ultrasound this morning and found a mass, likely lymphoma. It's April 17th. I think it's almost getting to be time.

23:34Like, he always had this routine when we were putting our daughter to bed. He'd sit by the bathtub. Kiss, pass, and hug. Uh, hug. Kiss, pet, hug who? Maggie, because I love her. Even if Maggie scratched me and bites me sometimes. Oh, you still love him? That's very kind of you to forgive him for that. Hi, Maggie. You watch during the bath, and then you come into her room and just lay there. You know, while we put jams on and stuff. He still did that tonight. He's got, like, no energy. But he's still purring. It's April 21st, 2024. Our last day with Mag. Aw, he's so cozy. Nate, Mads, and I are there.

24:27He's been my comfort for everything. What do I do when I need comfort from not having him? You will have me still. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's sweet, Mads. Yeah, Mads. Thomas. What is it? I got these books. Oh, yeah? Okay. Oh, yeah, I got those for you. Mads finds a new book I just bought by her favorite author, Sandra Boydman. I want you to read them to me. Okay, baby. It's called Tickle Time. So if you're feeling blue and you don't know what to do, there is nothing like a tickle time to make you feel like new. We're happy you could join us for a gidgy, gidgy goo. Gidgy, gidgy, gotta, gotta tell you goodbye.

25:11Goodbye. Goodbye. That was a good book, Mads, to find right now. Oh, I love you. I love you too, Maggie.

25:28I think that's a scene that a lot of pet parents have lived through and others think about a lot. I know I think about losing clutch all the time. But there's so much, to me, beauty in this story, too. And that audio she recorded of Magnus purring is just so relatable as a pet parent. We really do try to capture everything we can of them. Yeah, I wonder literally how many voice notes are out there with the sound of a dog snoring. We've all got them, right? More than we know, for sure. You can find the rest of the Pet Sounds of FlexWorks at audioflux.org.

26:17Julie Shapiro: Yeah, just look for Circuit 3 is the Pet Sounds one. But there's another circuit coming up, and we have promised our audience to let them know what the theme is and what are the prompts and where they need to go for any more information. Yeah, well, this is great timing because we just launched Circuit 7 and the theme is trash or treasure. And we are working with an organizational partner, Radio Workshop, which is an audio storytelling program out of Cape Town that teaches audio curious and reporting skills and storytelling skills to young African producers who want to get into the biz of producing audio.

26:58and yeah so they're our partner and they introduced us to our creative partner who is a Kenyan visual artist named Cyrus Kabiru and Cyrus makes beautiful sculptures out of discarded items aka trash aka refuse he gives these objects a second chance and he makes incredible he has a line of like spectacles that are very tapping into an afro-futuristic look he makes radios he works with bicycles. He just has all manner of materials around him that he has found locally, mostly in dumps and in trash heaps around his community. So we, with Cyrus, designed a couple prompts based on his practice. This is our very clear attempt to also get to some big stories about what's going on in the world.

27:51You have to draw from the theme of trash or treasure, tell us a climate story that's meaningful for you. Incorporate a found object that you either have found or you

28:01Julie Shapiro: will find somewhere in the telling of this story. And we'll ask people to send us a picture of that object. And the last one I'm really excited about is include a sound from Cyrus's studio in your piece, in your scoring or in your sound design. And so we will provide a folder with five different sounds that have been recorded at Cyrus' studio as he's making his work. So we're sort of inviting you to collaborate with Cyrus as well by using the sounds of his studio and his materials. So those are the prompts. And you can find out more at audioflux.org right on the homepage. We're going to link to Circuit 7.

28:37And, you know, a good way to get involved is to listen to other circuits and get a sense for the range of stories that get told. When are submissions open until? So we have the open call runs from basically now through April 6th.

28:53Julie Shapiro: So we give people about six weeks and we are well aware that most produce their Fluxworks in the last days, weeks. So you got some time to think about it. Let it marinate. Go find something out in the world that inspires you. Like any respectful audio producer. Yes, exactly. Producers love a deadline and they're going to produce to a deadline. Julie, thank you so much for coming on for Ball Confidential. this has been such a fun conversation and I can't wait to see what happens with this next circuit of trash and treasure thank you so much and I hope that one day Tim Tam and Clutch can have a play date and run around a field together and um you know I would love that I'm sure Clutch would love that too and I've got to say like Clutch and I'll put this up maybe on social media but Clutch and Tim Tam could be the hairs and the coloring like they could be long lost relatives.

29:45Yeah, separated at birth.

29:51You know, it constantly amazes me how much you can learn about someone by talking to them just about their pets. Thanks so much again to Julie Shapiro for coming on the pod. It was so much fun to have you and we'll have all of the information you need to know about the next circuit of audio flux in our show notes as well. That's it for this bonus episode of Furball Confidential. Hope to see you soon.

30:23Furball Confidential is created and hosted by me, Jen Morose. Our show producer is Talia Schlanger. She also co-created our theme music with David Traversmith with Brian Kobayakawa on bass. Reza Daya does our sound and video design and editing. Danny Stover does our social media. Our show artwork is by Adrian Foro. And Marina Hanna does our audience development. And thanks, as always, to the furball who started it all, Clutch. I'm Jen Moroz, and this is Furball Confidential.

31:05Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of Ted's podcast, Rethinking with Adam Grant. Have you heard of Bill? It's the intelligent finance platform that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move, and maximize money, proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com slash proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a$250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com slash proven.

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