Zoe Haseman: Talk Less, Do More

0:00We know that sustainability is a lever for value creation. Let's just prove it out. Let's just make it happen. We don't need to talk about it. We've been in the headlines. We've had lots of conversations. We've been on lots of stages and done lots of presentations at times where people wanted us there and they wanted to hear from us about sustainability. And right now, that isn't the case. And that's fine. People want to talk about AI. People want to talk about other things. That's fine. But our work is still out there to be done. and those proof points are still out there to be proved. So for me, it's like, okay, let's just do the work and it will speak for itself.

0:47Welcome to the Future in Sound podcast. I'm your host, Jen Wilson. This is a podcast where we discuss people, planet, and profit. In each episode, we'll learn from world-leading experts who can help us see the future we want and our role in it.

1:13This is episode 42, Talk Less, Do More.

1:21Zoe Haseman joined EQT Partners in October 2022. Zoe works closely with EQT's investment advisors to integrate sustainability across all stages of the deal cycle. Ensuring how EQT does business creates a positive impact. Zoe supports portfolio companies by collaborating with them to accelerate sustainable transformation across the investment operations. operations and focuses on unlocking value creation. Prior to this role, Zoe was a sustainability technical lead on major infrastructure projects and has over 20 years international experience as a sustainability leader working across multiple sectors and industries.

2:02In addition to this, she's also on the board of a non-profit named Engineers Without Borders UK. Zoe, welcome to the Future in Sound podcast. Thanks, Jen. Nice to be here.

2:16And, you know, obviously you and I know each other pretty well, Zoe. For the audience, I'd just love it if you could share a little bit about your background and how you got into sustainability. Okay. Well, this is very much going to date me if the 20 plus years in sustainability hasn't already. But being a child of the 80s growing up through that era, I was fascinated by the idea of humans causing pollution and acid rain. That was the big sort of like environmental issue of the day when I was a kid growing up. And I remember reading this book about it thinking, why would we be doing that to ourselves?

2:54This doesn't make any sense. And I think it was honestly back in that time that it just struck a chord with me so deeply that I was like, this is my life's mission. This is what I need to set out and set myself up for to be able to try and save the planet. so yeah big ambitions as a little kid but yeah it was it did seriously strike a chord and where my passion always led and you know I did an environmental science degree off the back of that and yeah it's actually nearly 25 years working in sustainability. And it's so rare you know it's actually quite rare especially in private market sustainability teams to have that you know starting in environmental science and continuing in the environmental sphere leading up until a role today.

3:43I'm really curious, how does that change your perspective when it comes to working in sustainability, given that you've been in this space for a couple of decades? I think with that experience comes wisdom, right? Just because you've seen so much, like sustainability has evolved so much over that timeframe from it being not something people weren't really talking about within businesses at the boardroom at that high level to something where they absolutely were and they were pulling people in and then everything in between really so you know you've had the days where you're one of the most popular people and you've had the days where you're one of the people that you're like who are you why are you working here and I think With those two extremes, you have to develop a lot of skills and tactics and strategies to be able to figure out why you are there and what you're there to do and what you're hoping to achieve and how you're going to go about doing it to get the outcomes that you need for that business.

4:46I would say my career has been sort of like it's never there's never been a dull day there's never been the day that's been the same and it's been an absolute evolution and a journey where I've just kept learning throughout the last two decades in terms of how I can best bring what I know to bring to be able to get those outcomes and I think what's always helped me in you know being my compass throughout that is what is it that you know what's my personal purpose and mission and how do I sort of like bring that into the business that I'm working with? And I've, you know, moved around various sectors and various companies, but always been very much like, I want to learn and I want to bring, I want to have a, bring a positive impact to the company that I work for.

5:26And what does that look like for that company? And just being very much like, that's the anchor. And then, you know, the tactics, the strategies, and, you know, the stakeholder manager management around that varies and evolves with every job, depending on what's going on in the world. It sounds like that core purpose really helps you to stay resilient as things inevitably change. Maybe 2021, it was easy to be on the top five issues that the board was focusing on. It's harder right now. That will change again. It sounds like that clear sense of purpose helps to navigate and stay resilient over the long term.

6:05Absolutely. And I think it's also about understanding where each business or depending on where you're working or the context for your job, your role at the time. It's like, where is that business at and where do they need to go as well? And really tuning into that part of it and meeting the business, meeting the stakeholders where they are as well to take them on that next part of the journey. um when i started you mentioned my my role at jacobs um it was a newly created role back in 2018 as the global head of global head of sustainability um and it was right at the time and i mean i feel like at the time i i couldn't have timed it better because it was right when larry fink sent his you know the famous 2018 letter letter to his shareholders and for the first time really really sort of like double down on the importance of sustainability and you know for me coming into a new role newly created role where I was going to be working with the c-suite the board to really sort of like set out what's Jacob's position what's our vision going to be having something like that and that was a major milestone for anyone working in sustainability in the corporate sphere I think and what a tool it was to be able to help convince our stakeholders us up in a corporation that this was the right time for us to take this on.

7:27So yeah, you adapt and you're resilient. You're absolutely right. But you also use what you can that's around you at any time. And for me, looking back at all the things that changed and the milestones across that time, that 2018 window was a real pivotal one where ESG obviously became big talk within boardrooms all over the world. I'd love to get a little bit more into where we stand now but before we do I'd love to just hear more about your role at EQT Infra and what does your day-to-day look like what are your responsibilities and then maybe we can go from there. Yeah sure so yeah the role is head of sustainability for the infrastructure business line at EQT.

8:11I've been there for three years now. And that was a newly created role at the time as well when I joined. EQT has been, I would say, one of the leading GPs, one of the leading firms in the private markets sphere on sustainability since its inception 30 years ago. So I joined an organisation that knew how to do this and had been doing it for a very long time. So my role was really to come in and say, how can we take this to the next level within this business and specifically around how can we better really integrate sustainability throughout the deal cycle and really realize that value creation piece as well.

8:49So getting a lot more embedded into the deal work and into the investment side of the business. So it was brand new for me. I mean, I hadn't worked in this space before, but what I did feel at the time was, you know, this is a great moment to bring all of the experience I've had on the industry side and on the creating strategy and developing it to bring that and really sort of like understand how to unlock value creation in our investment portfolio companies. So getting back to what my role is, my role covers the whole of the deal cycle, you know, right from working with the deal teams around, you know, our thematic alignment and identifying some of those sectors, subsectors, where we feel there's great tailwinds for us to, you know, look at areas where, you know, yes, the financial opportunity is there, but also like we can really create a positive impact within these thematic areas as well so advising right at that stage and then as we get a developer pipeline is sort of being a sparring partner to our investment committee but also to our deal teams you know which of our pipeline opportunities like are really going to be like meaningful from you know obviously the fiduciary the returns aspects but you know also from the impact side of things as well are the high risks there are the big opportunities there and sparring around that.

10:07Then guiding through due diligence, ensuring that we have a thorough understanding of sustainability risks and value creation opportunities. And then as we go through and potentially acquire any of these companies, that active ownership piece, so five to seven years of active ownership, really sort of like getting under the hood with our portfolio companies and seeing what we can do to really activate the transformation when it comes to sustainability as well. I love it. It's a really interesting, dynamic, exciting job. I get to play along all of those aspects of the deal cycle. Yeah, and work really closely with our deal teams to, you know, empower them, educate, and make sure that, you know, it's not just me and my small team that are delivering on sustainability, but it's the whole of that organization as well.

10:53It's interesting, because we were talking about the field of sustainability, and where we're coming from and sort of the pendulum swinging back and forth. And I'm interested in, as you, you know, obviously, it's a really exciting process to work with portfolios and work with deal teams, etc. And at the same time, we're within this context around us. And I'm interested in how you think about where sustainability is going. Overall, there's the day to day, And then it's, okay, well, what does the next five years look like? And how do we fit into that? So when you think about the field overall, how do you see the field evolving over the next five years?

11:36obviously it's hard to predict but we've seen these cycles before in sustainability you know we could call this whatever we want to call it a backlash a you know a retreat uh i don't think it has to be any of those things yes there's noise going on and there is definitely headwinds for sure no one's denying that i actually think this you know and i'm an optimist as most people in sustainability are and have to be. But what is the silver lining to this phase, this place we're in now? And for me, I think it is really talk less, do more. And let's prove it. We know that sustainability is a lever for value creation.

12:20Let's just prove it out. Let's just make it happen. We don't need to talk about it. We've been in the headlines. We've had lots of conversations. We've been on lots of stages and done lots of presentations at times where people wanted us there and they wanted to hear from us about sustainability. And right now, that isn't the case. And that's fine. People want to talk about AI. People want to talk about other things. That's fine. But our work is still out there to be done. And those proof points are still out there to be proved. So for me, it's like, okay, let's head down. Let's just crack on.

12:52I've got dozens of portfolio companies. We've got all these sustainability levers all lined up. We know exactly what we want to do on all of them. Let's just do the work and it will speak for itself. I love this talk less, do more. Zoe, I think that might be the name of this particular episode. I think you just named the episode. And you've got, speaking of doing and driving toward outcomes, obviously that's really inspiring. And coming back to the reality, you've got a small team, a lot of portfolio companies. How do you engage and partner with portfolio companies to drive toward these outcomes?

13:29So I think I approach it in the same way that I've kind of described approaching all key stakeholders. Whether you're a corporate sustainability leader within a business or you're in a role similar to mine where you've got multiple portfolio companies to look after. And I think it's really sort of getting to know the customer, you know, and I call the customer, let's call them the portfolio company on this occasion. And, you know, what is their motivation? Where are they? Understand where they are. Understand their motivations. Understand what's going on around them and, you know, what's working for them and what's not working for them.

14:09So I love it. When we finished our due diligence and we go on to acquire a portfolio company, for me, that time is like, right, let's validate all that we read about and heard about, typically through a third party in many instances during our due diligence process. On paper, this company, they've got this, they've got that, they don't have this, they don't have that. And when we go on to acquire a portfolio company, we do a sustainability onboarding very soon after the acquisition. and we do that with the deal team, but we also do it with the sustainability appointed lead at the organisation.

14:45Sometimes in a bigger organisation, mature organisation, they've got a head of sustainability. Sometimes they've got a small team around them as well. In others, it's the head of HR, it's the strategy lead who's been given the honour of having sustainability to lead as well. So whoever that person is, we get to know them and we build a relationship. And I think for me, that is key to how do we get things done? We understand who we're working with, who's our counterpart and how to make them successful. And I think to get to that, we need to one, have a shared understanding. We need to have trust and that good relationship in place.

15:26Then we need to understand what are just like the two or three key sustainability levers that we want to achieve over the next five years here. and it's at eqt at like in infrastructure we call it you know we have a couple of two or three material areas and some targets associated with that but we have one real really cool one sustainability transformation kpi and target and it's a five-year target and it's something that that organization can really use as a commercial differentiator as we think about exits but as they think about sort of like much longer term what is that one thing for this company that's going to really unlock either top line revenue increase profitability increase you know right to win in their respective market be the employer of choice best employer of choice in their industry we nail down what is it that we want to what's that shared vision essentially and then i think when you're a lot more targeted and specific and you really tie it back to commercial outcomes you You can get the right people on the right page.

16:31So once you have the foundations of a relationship in place, you know what you're shooting for. You know that vision and you've got a plan of how to get there. And then I would say the other really critical pieces is who are the sort of like people, you know, the governance, the upward side of it and getting a buying there as well. So at EQT, for example, we have a sustainability board champion for all of our portfolio companies. So we appoint someone at the board level who can really guide, advise and ask the right challenging questions. But it also bought into what that vision and what that transformational target is and what we're trying to achieve in the roadmap.

17:11So for a long winded answer, possibly. But I think there are maybe three or four of the key components. Like, how do we set up or video companies up for success and get the right buy-in to make change and create those outcomes and realize that value creation from the outset we've identified? It's really inspiring. I think that, you know, I'm reflecting on one of the things that sustainability professionals often love to do is have the 100 KPIs or have the sort of long list. And to be fair, data is required for limited partners. and that's part of the process for sure. What strikes me about your answer is that you have in mind a couple of areas where there's an opportunity for a real material difference and then you home in on one particular target that's commercially related.

18:04This idea of having sort of a support structure around that change, governance, and then tying to value creation, I can really see how that would align align both members of the team at EQT as well as members of the senior leadership team around similar goals and also make it a little bit more, you know, easy to take in and think about, well, what do I do when there are a lot of other change initiatives going on in my organization? If I have, you know, two or three areas that I'm really focusing on most, I can imagine that that makes it a little bit easier for teams to feel like they're making progress.

18:44Yeah, no, I think that's a great summary of it.

19:14all of this work into your core value creation strategy or your business model. Check us out at re.co.com to get in touch. All right, now back to our conversation. I think one of the other things that I've probably experienced and learned from over the years is sustainability is so vast. It's filled with all the abbreviations like the, you know, it's complicated for people that don't live and breathe this every day. So I think one of the things that has stuck with me and what I've probably done more and more of is just keep it simple. How do you keep it simple? And not because the people on the other side don't have the brain capacity to get it, but everyone's got their own thing in front of them.

19:59They're all focused very much on, you know, what is my job here? What am I? And with sustainability, you're very often, you know, no one has the luxury of just being, you know, all I have to do in my life is just deliver on these couple of sustainability objectives you know it's piled with other firefighting things going on so we just have to keep it simple otherwise you just it won't stick so i think yeah i mean it's maybe people reach this and conclusion sooner than i did in my career but for me it's like you just keep it simple and i think the other thing that i just wanted to add on top of that is you know i talked about like get the vision get the right people get the accountability and the government's locked in to the extent where if me and my team didn't come back to this company, didn't come back to the deal team during this ownership period, would we have done enough to set them up for success after that initial engagement?

20:54And if we're like, yeah, really, we should have done. They've got a five-year roadmap. They've got a shared vision. They've got the buy-in from the stakeholders around them. The deal team's bought into it. They're going to be there pushing and driving along the way. I mean, obviously, we don't and we keep coming back and we support because things change but yeah that's one of the tests that I you know in my head I'm like have we done enough if we left them alone could they could they go do it? Have the changes that have been made or the influence is it embedded somehow in the organization? Yeah.

21:25And it sounds like it's embedded when you're meeting people where they are and you're understanding what their incentives are and engaging them so that you know the the initiatives are co-created in a way. It's simple enough that they understand the technical side. Because actually, once you take out the jargon, I find, I don't know if you'd agree with this, Zoe, but I find if I'm working with an ops person or I'm working with someone in sales or finance, they have great ideas. It's just, they don't know all the acronyms. And that's completely fair. a hundred percent i mean how many times have you all of us right heard people start a conversation with you know a stakeholder in another part of the business going well i'm not an expert of sustainability but it's like well i don't think any of us are experts at sustainability right right so don't you don't even need to start your centers like that but there's this whole like almost feeling threatened that they haven't got a sustainability background that they don't have the ideas when actually all the best ideas come from all around you across the business.

22:32So for listeners, I've seen Zoe in action and she's very engaging and it's impossible to work with Zoe and not feel inspired to want to make a contribution. And I'm really interested in double clicking on how that happens. So let's do that through a scenario, perhaps. This is a fictitious portfolio company you've just they've just come into the portfolio they don't have a track record of sustainability they're a little skeptical they're busy there's a lot of change happening how do you start building that relationship you know maybe they have this idea of oh like zoe's going to come in and just criticize what we're doing or whatever else like how do you Have you been a fly on the wall, Jen?

23:18How do you, what steps do you take to start building that relationship? Baby steps, I would say. I mean, we've had lots of situations, lots of scenarios that have played out like this. I mean, what's fascinating is you get everything right. So those companies where, you know, we've had companies that, you know, the business itself is doing some great stuff. you know the let's say the mission of the business i'm going to make this up it's a renewables company and they're like oh yeah sustainability we're doing it we're a renewables company we are like we have a pivotal role to play in the energy transition we're accelerating decarbonization all of this our work on sustainability surely we don't need to do anything else other than grow the company so that's always a really interesting one and we've a few of those and that's not you know and that's completely reasonable position to take and of you of a founder who set up this company that's very purpose-led very purpose-driven so for me when i come across that i'm like okay that's great that is the you've got the what we do covered amazing your business is like doing exactly the right things so in that scenario it's about working with the CEO, the founder, and saying, you know, there's also another element of sustainability, which is super important.

24:44And if we want to have a successful exit in five years time, it's a really important area that we cover, because this is what the next buyer is going to be checking and diligencing against. And that's how we deliver what we do. So it's that not only what you do, which if you're mission-oriented, purpose-led, you're doing something wonderful for the world, is sustainable, is great. Big, big tick. But it's how you're delivering that. And with that, I'm talking about where are you buying your component parts for your solar panels? What does that supply chain look like? What are the human rights risks of where you're buying?

25:25What's the embodied energy and carbon associated with where you're buying those component parts from? How are you disclosing all of that to your stakeholders currently today? Because as you grow and become a more significant business and more significant player in the industry, your customer base is going to want to know that. And your future employees are going to want to know all of this. Your next buyer is certainly going to want to know all of this. And by the way, how are you also making sure that when you apply for a new solar project, you know that you're going to be able to get the permits in a very sort of streamline efficient way without any backlash from your local communities?

26:06That is going to be part of your license to operate going forward. so anyway i'll stop the i'm really role-playing here i'm really getting into this one but i think my point is it's you know that's a scenario where you just have to break it down explain the risks and the mitigants in a language that's going to resonate with the person you're talking to in this case you know you know in this case with a founder with a ceo exit you know we're all going to be focused on that exit how do we get to the exit that we want and break it down into its components parts to lead up to that so anyway is that hopefully that fills you in a little bit in some of the sort of like how I would approach that kind of situation I'm feeling motivated I feel like I'm the founder and I'm I okay I want to get to that exit how do I do it Zoe this is uh this is I totally I totally hear that I'm really making this seem like it's very straightforward And of course, it's not at all.

27:05And these are multiple conversations that don't always go right and take a lot of different attempts and different tactics all the time. And so I think it's about resilience, but also just, what's the word? Never giving up. Like, I am just like, you just have to keep going, keep going and get used to having doors shut in your face and then opening them up again and going, hi, it's me again. Let's talk again. Another thing that I've observed, Zoe, is that the approach that you take, the work that we've done together is very collaborative, celebrating successes, and also having a high standard. You know, there's an element of it doesn't feel like you're giving a report card.

27:51You know, it feels like in the work that we've done together that, you know, you're thinking about how do we inspire this team to do more in line with what I'm trying to do. That's been our experience. um now obviously we're not a portfolio company but is there anything that you'd like to share just on the combination of sort of positive reinforcement and also then trying to push colleagues in a direction that takes them to the next level yeah so i mean it is very much how i go about it i think you know whether we call it celebrating successes or building you know kind of acknowledging again it gets back to acknowledging like and meeting the stakeholder where they are and you know you can give a report card but that seems a little bit unfair because somebody started at least 20 years ago versus the person that you're going to be working with who's just you know just starting out a year ago yeah i mean i'm just a believer a positive reinforcement is more motivating and you know particularly where good stakeholder relationships and trust are the building blocks of mutual success it might be a personality choice but that is just like how I lead and, you know, where, and I think it gets, it seems to certainly get the results that we need.

29:13And it's a lot more fun and rewarding going at it in a very positive way than the reverse going, well, here's what you haven't done rather than here's what you've done. And this is great. And these are all the foundational elements. And you know what, how we're going to build on this next this is what's going to come next we are coming to the end of our conversation i have a couple more questions that i've got to to ask zoe so we spoke at the beginning of our conversation around this is this sustainability space can get complicated lots of acronyms lots of change new legislation how do you keep up to date i read a lot well as much as i can in between life and work and everything else, news generally, like the FT, the Economist, any paper I can get my hands on, particularly when I'm travelling and I have a bit more time to sort of absorb.

30:07So really understanding what's going on in the world for that broader context, the global macro, absolutely critical for sustainability to know what else is happening out there and what we're up against and what's a headwind, what's a tailwind and all the rest of it. But then also, you know, all of our industry, very helpful daily and weekly round summary news and emails as well. You know, anything Bloomberg Green to, you know, infrastructure investor, a lot of the private markets, newsletters as well. Also, the sort of vertical topical news. So, you know, we do a lot of investing around the energy transition.