Game Scoop! Presents: Ocarina of Time - Is It Still Fun?

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2:27And for this inaugural episode, I thought it would be interesting to revisit a game that for quite some time was considered by many to be the greatest game ever made. To this day, it is still the highest rated game ever on Metacritic. It's the only game with a 99 score. It is, of course, The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. Released in 1998, not only did it bring the Zelda franchise into the third dimension, not only is it the best reviewed game ever, It's probably the biggest shot in the arm the humble ocarina wind instrument ever received, and it's 12 ,000 years of existence. So, Pear, I've invited you here not only because your experience and perspective brings a lot to the table, but also because you reviewed Ocarina of Time for IGN back in 1998.

3:08You gave it a 10 out of 10, and your review opens with the line, the new benchmark for interactive entertainment has arrived. What do you remember about reviewing Ocarina of Time? I thought you invited me because I own three ocarinas. It's true. Wow. Can you play one? Can you perform Song of Time for us? Absolutely not. Okay. Look, yeah, that was an interesting review because it was at an age where reviewing games was really complicated and a representative from Nintendo had to come into our offices handcuffed to a Nintendo 64 with this like saw movie-like metal clamp on top that held the cartridge in place and then actually stay in a room with us overnight while we're trying to finish the game.

3:50So yeah, it was very early on. Does the game still hold up? I think we will be getting into that in our 14-hour discussion. Yeah, it's going to be a 14-hour discussion. I stand by that review. It's going to be video essay, yeah. Per, did you also play the Japanese version early of Ocarina before you played the North American version? I'm trying to remember how that went. You definitely played it at, not CES, maybe E3 by then. No, I did get to play an early version at an event in San Francisco with like Miyamoto and everybody was there. And like we got to sit in beanbag and play for a few hours.

4:27He sat in a beanbag with Miyamoto? Yeah. So he walked by and he's like watching your screen and you're like, am I playing this okay? And he's like, oh. He's like watching pair play. It's like, we're going to have to add that Z targeting after all. And he goes like, interesting. And then he keeps walking. and then he looks at another guy and goes like you don't have the horse yet and then i bet he flew to uh austin and started work on that pre-production of metroid that's right that's right uh no that review look i i haven't i don't think i've changed anything in the years and snuck in there i still stand by it um it's such a good game still i recently replayed it on uh switch online i started just to see what they screwed up and whether the emulation was bad and then I just, once you get past the Kokiri BS in the beginning, you're like, man, this is so good.

5:20I like the Kokiri stuff. We'll see if I like it this time around, I suppose. It's a little slow. Miranda, when I reached out to you about this, you said you'd been wanting to revisit Ocarina of Time. Is that right? The big reason I wanted to replay this was because my heart was, it just belonged to Ocarina of Time. Like it was a, it's a foundational game for me. I was quite young when it came out. I don't actually remember how old I was when we had it in my home. obviously my parents, the 64 was theirs and I was like I want to play this, give it to me and so yeah you can play Zelda, it looks cute, it looks good and I was like yeah and lo and behold it's just like this incredible journey that made me feel so much guilt as a child Did you get freaked out by the stuff under the well?

6:01Yeah I did Yeah there was so much like the Redeads I was just going to say the Gibdos or Redeads, yeah yeah there's Gibdos in the second one

6:15yeah that was terrifying and like we would scream i would scream when they would scream i was like no that my mom would be like what are you doing that was like an actual sample on that cartridge like that was a choice to use that much space to put that scream in there but they probably use it for some other 10 other things too i feel like that was the level when when miranda decided to have an actual skeleton in her home yeah i do have a skeleton in here Oh, there it is. Her name's Lorelai. I have her standing up now. She used to sit for a long time, and now she just gets lurk in the corner next to my Bloopy, which is a custom plush that I ordered.

6:50Miranda got that sent to the office, and she took it home on our subway train, Bart, one day. I did. I always pictured that. And that wasn't even close to being the weirdest thing that happened on Bart that day. No. Yeah, 100%, not even on that ride. I was sitting in a little chair, and I had her standing next to me, and I put plastic wrap on her feet, because I didn't want her feet to touch the ground on our trains. And then I would just see people just kind of... The carpeted trains. Just taking photos, just kind of trying to sneak up. I'm like, I mean, you can take a photo of it, guys. I would be like, thank God, it's Skeleton Girl on the train, not this other 10 people.

7:24Oh, God, yeah. There's a lot of things that you don't want to see on the train. Cross your fingers, it's just Skeleton Girl. All right, well... It's just Skeleton Girl. But, yeah, but basically, I've really wanted to replay Ocarina of Time because it is so foundational for me. And now I'm like, wow, Chains of the Kingdom has completely changed my life. Breath of the Wild, too. And those sit in the weird camp of together for me. And I'm like, man, do these compare to my love for Ocarina of Time? That's kind of why I want to go back to it. Yep, same. I'm excited to revisit it. I haven't played it since it was released in 1998.

7:55So we are now going to go our separate ways, play the game for a week or so, and then we'll reconvene and we'll dig into our 14-hour discussion. Let's find out if The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time is still fun today or is it just okay, Rena of time? Let's find out. No.

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12:47And we're back. We played the song of time. Only a moment has passed for you watching this video or listening to this podcast, but it has been months. It's been months since we embarked on this adventure. We recorded the intro in June before IGN Live, and then event season just carried us all the way to Comic-Con and Gamescom. Now the world is full of zombies. Oh, no. Yeah, now the world is everywhere. Ganon has destroyed the world. We're older and can no longer use a slingshot. Lost seven years of my life. So, everybody, I'm going to collect your copies, hand them back here. Here's one. Okay, yeah.

13:19Here's two. Three. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take these back. Okay, perfect. The good news is we had a lot more time to play Ocarina than we were planning on. Thank you. I'm excited to hear everyone's thoughts. But for me, the short answer to is Ocarina of Time still fun today? It is yes, yes, a thousand times yes. This is a very special game that is packed with charm. Still feels like a big adventure. The temples are genius. And every step of the way, the music is incredible. It's one of the greatest video game soundtracks of all time. There are some slight quirks that are products of their time, but they don't diminish the overall package.

13:54So, Pear, start with you. You reviewed Ocarina of Time in 1998. How does it sit with you today? A different century. First of all, your experience will vary depending on what controller setup you use. Yeah. Thankfully, Nintendo patched things with Switch 2 where you can remap buttons, so all is well. But originally, with the Switch 1 re-release, it mapped it to controllers in the most horrific way. it's one of those games that was designed with the N64 controller in mind camera controls were sorely missed but they used the C buttons as basically your inventory and it was a really clever way to let you assign the things you really needed right at the time yeah this game obviously has been fresh in my mind because I've revisited it over the years played it on 3DS again probably two times and then played it again in emulation and on different devices.

14:51And yeah, it's like you start it and it starts slow, like a lot of Zelda games do, but it's just sort of easing you into the basic controls. But at this point, we know what happens in the beginning and you don't need the tutorial for jumping and swordplay and cutting bushes and all of that, or using your ferry to Z-target people who are far away and talking to them. All of that sort of blaze through and then you get right into the game and like the first dungeon is already great. Yeah. I gotta hear what your Scarce Grow song is, Pear. Oh, I just go do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do so I don't forget.

15:31I just go left-right, left-right, left-right. I know, yeah. Is it left-right? Yeah, is it left-right, left-right, left-right, left-right. How about you guys? Oh, yeah, 100%. I think mine might have been up-down. I just play Song of Storms all the way through until it stops. really? anyway you get into the you get into the deco tree and the atmosphere and this is when you go back now you're used to games being cinematic but this was games were not that way back then you go into the deco tree and the camera zooms out and it's got these sweeping camera moves it shocked me I didn't remember that that like there's so much camera stuff where the camera will come in from way from the edge of the level and come in and like go right in a link's face he's like ah and there's like all kinds of stuff and then i think they do that several times too and i think it was like one of my favorite parts that just felt like they're they're taking liberties of making this a bigger experience beyond you and that like the flying through and that happens several times with different flying characters which shows you this world in a different way and it gives that sense of scope that i don't feel like you really got in a lot of games at that time um and it was just such a cool way to mix it up too yeah i was shocked that it works so well too it's like so seamless like that was the disc based at the time like uh problems with with cut scenes right yeah is that they loaded yeah and then they look completely different because they were fmv or whatever they were and you go back to the game but this i remember ign talking about this when i was first reading agenda like in engine cut scenes and why they matter like this is why they matter it's a completely organic experience and they've developed their own language right like they letterbox the uh the display whenever like some of the faces are comical now like zelda when she turns around she's like you know um but but but remember one thing they did it looked different on uh on a crt tv right like exactly there were lines that were left free and like so the color blending the way it all comes together it looks more rounded when you play it on an old old school tv like that because they're also the curvature of the screen they took that into consideration back then but Going back to the deco tree, you immediately learn the rules of water will put out fire, but you need to get the fire to the other side.

17:48And what do you do? Whenever you do something, the effect is shown. Like a ladder falls down. And then super clever. That's right. When you do something in a room and you unlock a door and it goes, you know, it opens, the camera by default positions you with a line of sight towards the thing that you unlocked. And it draws that line of sight to your head. The stuff they figured out back then in this game that we just take for granted today is just awesome. Combat, locking on, always having a visual, like having your enemy, all of those things. There are some warts. Yeah. Jump button. Well, also, I think that worked.

18:26I think the auto jumping just running off a cliff. It works. I think it works. You fall by accident. Yep. You can just roll. Okay. I do. It did really bug me when I started replaying this. Just not being able to control the cameras. Because this was two years after Mario 64. They still didn't trust people to just control their own camera? I don't know. There wasn't enough buttons. That was it. They ran out of buttons. The hardest thing I think people are going to have coming into this game, if they want to play it again. This is the, is it still fun today? Yes, but. If you take time off and it's been a bit, getting back and getting used to how the camera operates by using Z-targeting is one of the most obnoxious things.

19:05It feels like some, in some ways, it feels like some of the harder games where it's like if you take a step back from it for too long, you kind of forget everything. And that's how it feels to play this. And sometimes where the controls just don't feel very intuitive at some points. And you get used to that pretty quick, but that feels extra sticky on boss fights. Like I had that issue in so many boss fights. I'm like, just look this way, Link, please, for the love of God. and it's really hard to adjust to that after having the luxury of moving my own camera for almost every single game that I play these days.

19:40When you walk into a new room, you're rarely attacked where you're standing and so you can pop into first person and look around but now we want to organically do this while we explore and this game doesn't let you do that. You have to like survey and then you run in and you got to constantly snap like, you got to like snap that camera behind you to look at everything, right?

20:01I was going to say, you also have the problem of Navi wanting not to lock on enemies. If they're close, but they're just still too high, she doesn't want to go up there. I'm like, can you please look at this bat so it doesn't set me on fire? I can't target it. Remember, they're just far enough away to not target them. You're like, that bat's just going to hit me, isn't it? Yep, it's going to hit me. It's going to hit me. Camera is the biggest issue. And then when you're locked on, your functions are different, right? Then you can do, when the Z button is pressed, you can do backflips and things.

20:32But you can also fall off things that you don't jump when you're locked on. I love the backflip so much. The backflip is awesome. It's mammoth so much. The way the combat works, how you can sidestep around characters. It feels really good and really organic. Z targeting still feels great. Once you're locked on, it's like, oh, this is awesome. But the camera controls are missed. And there's some areas where they don't want to give you free camera control because of how the levels are constructed, right? Yeah. You guys, if you're… They made a little 2D background and wrapped it around a town and just run around a circle.

21:05If you use a tool like Noclip and you can see how the world is constructed, like literally when you're inside the farm, there's no world outside. It's just like it has like tapestry around it. When you're in the marketplace, it is a circular, like you're inside a hat box, basically, that rolls around you. And like the thing that amazed me is when you're in a house in the first, in the Kokiri forest in the first village, when you're inside a house and you hit C up, it does a third person view from the top. And they actually have to create a different version of that house. That's like, it doesn't come free.

21:42They have to do a couple of things in order for you to be able to switch. It's pre-rendered, right? They have pre-rendered textures. When you're on top of Death Mountain, you look down, you see a tiny version of Kakariko Village in the background. Those used to look better in CRTs, I'll tell you that. Everything, it's designed to be blurry. And so when you're on an LCD or OLED or something, it does look. It's designed to be blurry. That's exactly right. The magic trick is given away. But back then, that was mind-blowing because we thought it was an open world. They simulate an open world, but it's just cleverly interconnected little paintings and tricks that make it happen.

22:18And so, yeah, going back to it again, I'm just struck by how creative this team was and how much work they did to pretend that it was an open world. Sam, how about you? Still fun today? Okay. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, we were starting this project out in a very busy week where there was a bunch of games we were supposed to be playing for work. And I was texting Damon saying, like, I just want to play Ocarina more. like it was that it drew me in that much and especially after the jabu jabu kind of which i actually liked all of this i always remember being like oh i have to play as fast as i can to get past jabu jabu then i like this other stuff better but i liked all of it yeah and the jabu jabu stuff was difficult and complicated luckily i brought two different strategy guides along for the ride and uh which one's the official one strategy guides they're both official oh wow see this one says the official uh guide from nintendo power this is the official guide for brady no i see cool i may have worked yeah i think official was a different term back then uh these guides are horrible i didn't work on the brady one well the igan guy is good they don't use maps they don't tell you where anything is they just have like a page with like a picture and it's like tip tip you know what sure this is what link does next look at that big blank map thanks Thanks for nothing, everybody.

23:36They were coding this down to the wire. I think the teams, the strategy teams, didn't get a lot of time with the game early. Usually the official guides, people are embedded. Well, there were later released ones, though. I remember going to Borders in 1998 and getting that by the holiday seasons. This came out in November, I think. And then by December, there was already a later pressing something with like much better stuff in it there's much better but so i i was drawn in i stuck with it i got the furthest i i've gotten to the water temple which means i played through the forest temple and the fire temple the fire temple was a really fun revisit what a great yeah yeah yeah it's like the column of the center of the thing and how you like just wrapping your head around like oh that's what's happening here i i you know you barely figure that out then you you don't really use that hammer for anything else in the game aside from breaking some world things so i thought that was kind of funny but you do use it there um yeah very clever and then that that temple is where things start where things are so hidden in there do you have to listen for those sculptural sound yep yep yep and then my favorite thing about that point in the game is that you get a compass.

25:02And then you really need it. And you look and you're like, there's a chest in that room. Oh man, I have to get it. Then you go back and it's a freaking heart. You know, like a tiny little refills one heart. This is a troll chest. No, this is just Nintendo. This is what they do. I feel like a lot of the times you go for a hard reward in almost any Zelda game, it's not going to be actually rewarding unless it's a big test it's just exactly it's like the satisfaction that you cleared it 100 yeah and you can clear it you can 100 these dungeons and it feels so good but sam from a strategy guide writer and miranda from a strategy guide writer's perspective obviously this is gold for us because like you'll go through the forest temple and you hear behind the wall and you're like i don't know how to get it and like the answer is you can't you have to come back you know sometimes you have to get bombed sometimes uh which you know you get later or you have to get the whole shot right the item from the dungeon so you're like you don't go so hard until you get the compass the map and the item and you're like i'm gonna have to do a suite so then my other like point of context that i want to throw is that i've i've since i've played breath of the wild you know they ever replaced my favorite game of all time which was ocarina and i you know was think about all the reasons why that is and why tears of the kingdom is so wonderful and why i never want to go back to these kind of what i would refer to as more linear zelda experiences this game is not that it's it's still open it's still it's more metroid like you backtrack a lot it's less like the first zelda game than than you'd expect which is really open world i mean the legend of zelda for nes is like a perfect example of an open world game this is like it's tighter and it's it's the way it sends you back to things is clever because there's two different eras right and and all that so the reason i enjoy this game though now is is partially nostalgia and comfort right like it's just like it's so fun to return to and so familiar and lovely but it also is really fun and and it's in its satisfaction that it gives you of how you progress when you do get something you can do a lot more things like you generally when you get the hook shot you're like oh my gosh yeah yeah think of all the pieces of wood you can go back to and just and just aim at that but then some are too far away you're like oh well what what's gonna solve like it's so clever and and what it what in the world opening up and being um less i think dense than i remember but still more interactive than i remember that's that's kind of what surprised me as well is how much there is to do although when i got into an area i felt like my brain just clicked and i remembered so much like i gotta do all these sidequake things i know exactly how to find this i know how many cuckoos to find i know like what the secrets are which tombstone to pull and that felt really satisfying but at the same time it makes me excited for anyone who hasn't played it because i think they'd be surprised by how much there is to do how much optional stuff there is like the mini games they get really hard but you get addicted yeah and i think that's something we still have and obviously they've carried on with but it feels like there's just a bit more life and density to this world than like tears of the kingdom where everything is really open and sometimes it feels like you're just going through a bunch of empty space with some monsters you can find some like old rusted swords and stuff but this one feels like the towns just feel a little bit more alive or more dead i guess you could say sometimes like there's just a lot of character to them whereas sometimes when i was walking for through tears of the kingdom everything felt a little small for the scale of like what i feel like they could develop to whereas this sort of met my expectations of like life in these towns um and i think that's really cool to see where that all started in a lot of cases um i also just kind of on the development part of just being a guide writer and loving how things are structured i love how so much of this game is reliant on hints like even though people are like man navi just talks to you of time she's giving you all these directions until she doesn't yeah until you're just like where to go where do you go and i'm like well i remember where to go but it took me like an hour to figure like remember how to get the water temple stuff started it's just like wait a second yeah i noticed that there's some obscure moments right remember you have to talk to i think malin in in the back of the village but she's not there during the day or something right They actually changed some of those.

29:40And then time does not pass when you're in that area, only outside in the world. And the 3DS version actually fixes that. So they had some changes where they knew that their puzzles were a little bit, had some issues. But I remember this game so well because I played it so many times, wrote a guide and all of that. But when I started playing again, I fell into a hole with a cow in it. I'm like, oh, man, the cow? What do you do with a cow again? like do i play a song like how do i get the milk you know yeah and like there there are surprising amount of secrets but the thing that always struck me with this game is how many different types of secrets are there are there's a rumble secret where the rumble pack pulsates there's a sound secret where you have to listen to something there's a visual thing right like and then you start piecing it back together it's really yeah you mentioned do you remember the sheikah stones being like super mysterious there's so much you can do with these but they don't really do anything it's like you can hit them or bomb them or read them with the mask flying there they're flying every object's gonna have some kind of effect with this it's so interesting yeah yeah i think going though even though playing with a guy it's really helpful one thing that i've always loved about zolda games is they kind of just trust you to figure it out as well like there's a lot of hints like there's um even as early as what was it um just going to zora's domain for the first time and going to go through all of that it's like how do i kick this off to get to lord jobby jobby like how do i get him to move and they there's you can leave or you can go do this cool little diving game it's like oh this just happens to be here and it's i always get lucky because i always forget that i'm like oh you do have to leave this this little tunnel down here yeah that's always frustrating right yeah and so it just kind of feels like it's trying to point you in a direction of like oh you can't do this yet but what else can you do in this area and It kind of forces you to explore that.

31:33And I like that design for it. That game reminds me of how horrible it is to not have a big wallet in that game. You can jump off that and you're like, I just got 300 rupees and I can store 99. This is just crazy. This happens in Wind Waker too. Wind Waker, you're constantly over your wallet size. Yeah. I focused Skulltulas just immediately. I was like, I'm getting my wallet upgrades. Give it. And there's a lot available. I mean, you can really open world the Sculptulus. That's a really fun thing to do. Go at night, roll against trees. There's so many ways to get them. Can we talk about how creepy this game is, Damon?