Anthropic: AI could escape human control

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1:19One of the co-founders of the US artificial intelligence company Anthropic has warned that AI systems will soon be able to develop without the aid of humans. President Putin's handling of the Russian economy is in the spotlight at the annual Economic Forum in St. Petersburg. And Mali is banning the use of motorcycles outside urban areas in a bid to combat Islamist militias. Also in this podcast. We are talking for a project that will be built inside one of the most important coastal wetlands and it's part of the protected area. Why a massive coastal development project linked to Jared Kushner, the son-in-law of US President Donald Trump, is facing mounting resistance from protesters in Albania.

2:10We begin with a warning about the rapid progress of artificial intelligence from one of the key players in the industry. Anthropic, a major AI developer best known for its clawed assistant, says its latest most advanced systems are beginning to show signs they could escape human control. It says its AI models are dramatically speeding up the rate at which they teach themselves, removing human input from the process. The US company is proposing a slowdown in building them and global rules to contain these systems. One of Anthropix co-founders is Jack Clark. He's been speaking to the BBC's Faisal Islam.

2:50Right now, it's like the AI industry has a gas pedal, but it doesn't have a brake pedal in the car. And what we're saying is we want to do some of the work required to build that brake pedal so we in the world have an option. It's not obvious today that you want to do that, but absolutely, as you say, at some point in the future, you might say, let's get all of the benefits we can for, say, biology and medical research, and let's take a pause or take a moment on AI research where we can absorb the societal changes implied by this. A number of Silicon Valley AI companies are come raising tens of billions of dollars, including yourself, at valuations of a trillion dollar plus.

3:31And some argue that these are sort of great narratives that help you sell your kit to the world's biggest companies and walk away with these epic valuations. Well, all I can say is I'm a father, you know, my second child. I came back from paternity leave and my reaction was something really important is happening here and we need to tell the world. This is part of our public benefit mission is tell the world what we're seeing inside these companies with this unusual technology. That's the motivation for this. Are you worried for your kids if this message doesn't get out? I'm not worried for my kids if this message doesn't get out.

4:05I am worried for my kids if we as a society don't have a serious conversation about what the implications of AI's continued advances mean. They're going to mean that there are potentially great benefits. There are also risks. They are also going to change things about society. And they are going to need to change aspects of policy. And we have to have that conversation. So I think the story is generally any profession is now going to be able to work with AI systems and change how work happens as a consequence. which also means any single profession has some potential for AI to come in and augment or automate different types of work.

4:42And we're trying to measure that. Right now, there aren't clear measures that say that augmentation or automation is happening at large scale. But clearly, that's the implication of this. And we're trying to share data about it so that we can see if this shows up in the broader economy. OK, one last question. I mean, your advice for a confused young person thinking that the jobs that they had set sail to to try and get that they are simply not going to exist. And they're watching instead the sort of share options of Silicon Valley kind of go to the moon and thinking, what am I going to do? Am I even going to have a career?

5:15What should they do? Develop a hobby. Anyone who has a hobby has something that they're passionate about and that they know more about than most people. And with that hobby, you can have curiosity, you can have ideas and you can use that to really get the most out of these AI systems. And I am sure turn that into like amazing jobs, jobs that don't even exist yet. And it requires you to experiment with the systems and have that curiosity. So that's my message. But like, you know, three years ago, you'd have said become a software coder and that would have been wrong. Yeah. Well, I never would have said that.

5:49I have a liberal arts background. I would have always said go into the liberal arts because my experience has been people that are creative and people that can think broadly, people that read a lot, people that have interests are the ones most benefited by this. Indulge in curiosity and it pays back in how you can use this technology. But become a philosopher. Well, yeah, I think it's a great time for philosophers. We've just hired a whole bunch of them here. Faisal Islam speaking to Jack Clark. So that's the warning about AI. But what about the potential benefits? Well, scientists in Britain say they've safely carried out the first human trials of a vaccine designed with the help of artificial intelligence.

6:29The team at Cambridge University fed the genetic codes of a range of coronaviruses into an AI tool, producing a so-called super antigen. If the trials proved to be successful, the vaccine could help prevent future pandemics. The BBC's health correspondent, James Gallagher, explains the significance beginning his report from a Covid vaccine factory. These Covid vaccines saved lives during the pandemic, but they had to be developed after the virus had spread and needed to be updated once COVID started to mutate. This team at the University of Cambridge has tried something different. They took the genetic blueprint of multiple coronaviruses related to the one that caused COVID and then let artificial intelligence work on the vaccine design.

7:18It produced one that might give broad protection against a range of these viruses even if they mutate or a new one emerges. They say this is the first time a vaccine's key component has been designed by artificial intelligence and then tested in safety trials in people. We've done a trial that shows for the first time that we can use an AI vaccine antigen that's safe and that has the potential to represent a whole family, a group of viruses. What this means is that instead of chasing a particular infection when it occurs, that we have a vaccine that can prevent that whole family of viruses. It's still too soon to know if this AI-led approach will offer protection, but the same technology is being used to see if it could replace the annual flu vaccine, which needs updating every year, prepare for a bird flu pandemic that is killing animals around the world, or protect against a range of haemorrhagic fevers, including Ebola.

8:23James Gallagher. And staying with the theme of vaccines, the director of the World Health Organization says significant challenges remain around testing and vaccine development in the fight against Ebola. Over the last few days, Tedros Adhanom Capriasis has visited the centre of the latest outbreak of the disease in the Eastern Democratic Republic of Congo. In an interview with the BBC, he said countries that were planning to spend more on weapons should also consider allocating more money to disease prevention. The WHO chief said that the Ebola outbreak in Africa was unlikely to spread worldwide, but he said it was a major regional problem.

9:04I was actually hopeful about the future, but at the same time I had serious concerns. There is a lot of misinformation, as you rightly said. There is even fear in the community, but this is because of misinformation. And that if they could be equipped with the right information, if they could be trained, that they could talk to the community, have engagements with the community and reverse that. So that's one of the things that gave me hope. Because when community leaders are involved, I think they can change the tide. But at the same time, there was a real concern. I was worried about many of the things I observed on the ground.

9:51There was active conflict. Even the governor didn't want me to stay overnight there. And not only that, there is displacement. It's very difficult to do contact tracing and isolating those who have, you know, some risks or contacts. And then, of course, there is a chronic humanitarian problem because of the conflict. And many people are dependent on food aid. You mentioned humanitarian aid. There have been cuts, of course, to the aid budgets, both the United States and the United Kingdom and other countries as well. Is that having an impact? In other words, can you say with any degree of certainty that the cuts in aid have made this outbreak worse?

10:40The first thing I would like to say is United States and United Kingdom are helping. The funding cuts in 2025 was a challenge. At the Munich Security Conference, I saw, I witnessed that many countries from high-income countries, it's not about just the US and UK, but many high-income countries have been announcing at the Munich Security Conference their increase in defense expenditure from 1 % to 3%, from 3 % to 5%. And I was so worried. Then I told them, please, please don't forget about the invisible enemy. And they said, what do you mean by that? And I said, the invisible enemy like COVID, a virus that could wreak havoc.

11:38You know, it killed approximately now around 20 million people, the COVID pandemic. So while investing on your defense, this is actually to kill humans, please don't forget the common enemy that we have, a virus that doesn't care about our borders, our politics. So while preparing for what you think is your threat, you have to also be prepared for a threat which is common to humanity. Imagine, have you ever seen a war in recent memory that killed 20 million people?

12:42that are aligned with it. If you look at the global GDP dynamics of the last five years, you will see that almost half of its annual growth, 49%, is accounted for by BRICS countries, whereas the contribution of the so-called group of seven is estimated at 18%. A few days before the forum, Kyiv launched a major drone attack that hit the outskirts of St Petersburg, which also happens to be President Putin's place of birth. It was also a stark reminder that the war with Ukraine still continues. Our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg spoke to Mr Putin's special envoy Kirill Dmitriev and started by asking him about the current state of diplomacy to end the conflict and whether meetings with the American envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner were on the back burner.

13:34That's a false narrative because we just had a discussion with Steve and Jared, you know, yesterday actually, and a couple of discussions this week. And Mr. Ushakov is actively engaged with them as well, of course. And our minister Lavrov has good discussions with Secretary Rubio. So U.S.-Russia dialogue is ongoing, is going very well. And frankly, we see it's the European countries and maybe even UK who try to interject themselves into that dialogue because they believe the dialogue is going too well. And we see there are many forces in Europe and UK who don't want peace, who don't want the end of the conflict, and they have big efforts to try to create the false narratives that Russia-US dialogue is not going well.

14:15It is going very well. Are we likely to see a new meeting soon between US and Russia and Ukraine? Well, I think a bilateral meeting is likely to happen in the near future. I don't want to put a timeline on it. And that would pave way to other discussions as well. But we also have very significant bilateral track. And you do want Russia and the US as two largest nuclear nations to have good relations and have geopolitical stability, and their relations really determine security for the world. In recent days, we've seen signs of escalation, though. We've seen the big Russian attacks, missile and drone attacks on Ukraine.

14:51We've seen the Ukrainian drone attack on the St. Petersburg area this week. How dangerous is the situation now? Is there a danger of even more escalation? I think escalation is possible, but we have to remember something that's never mentioned in UK or European media, and I'm sure this part I'll say will not be mentioned. But it all started recent escalation with the attacks where 21 children were killed by Ukrainians in Starobelsk city. And basically, then Russian army started responding. So I think once we understand what causes some of the escalation factors and open transparent about it, then we can really find the path to de-escalation.

15:30Final question. And first to point out that it was Russia that launched an invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. But coming to the economy here, this economic forum, what do you think of the state of the Russian economy right now? Well, first of all, Russia believes that Russia didn't start the invasion because it started with Ukrainian forces attacking Russian-speaking people in Donbass. So the history is much more complicated. And I think the state of economy, you know, is not as much growth as last year, but it's not as bad as UK and European media says. It's definitely better than European economy, better than UK economy.

16:07Why? Because Russia has diversified quite a bit, but also benefits from higher prices on oil. Yes, interest rates are a bit too high. We believe they should be lower for more investments, but Russia economy has proven resilience. So Russian economy is resilient, is doing well. Actually, it's Europe who needs Russia to provide gas. It's Europe who needs Russia to survive. Kirill Dmitriov, Special Envoy to President Putin, speaking to our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg. Still to come in this podcast. Employees in the electronic factory where it hid at one point said that they saw it turn on a tap so they could have a drink of water and in the same factory further evaded capture by apparently unlatching and opening a locked window and escaping through that.

16:56We will have more on the search for an extremely intelligent, quotes, bear in Japan.

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19:12This is the Global News Podcast. Over the last three years, tens of thousands of suspected gang leaders have been detained in El Salvador as the authorities try to tackle the criminal organisations in the country. Now, prosecutors say leaders of the infamous MS-13 gang, currently on trial, will be sentenced to thousands of years in prison. Since first coming to power, President Naib Bukele has declared several states of emergency, under which military forces patrol streets and jails. I heard more about the gang from our global affairs reporter Paul Moss. Well, they date back to the 1980s when many El Salvadorians arrived in the United States, particularly Los Angeles, fleeing the country's horrific civil war.

19:57And MS-13 set itself up originally to protect those El Salvadorian immigrants against the homegrown American gangs. But as sometimes happens, the gang mutated until it itself was involved in drug trafficking, extortion, and became notorious for particularly horrific violence. Then the El Salvadorian Civil War ended. Many of these gang members went back to El Salvador. And to this day, it's been operating essentially as a transnational gang working in the United States and El Salvador. Why are there so many of them on trial at once? Well, El Salvador's current president, Nayib Bukele, came to power on a promise to launch what he called a war on gangs.

20:37His methods have not been exactly subtle. They've essentially gone through a sweep, arresting nearly 100 ,000 people. Now, there's no doubt it had an effect. The crime rate in El Salvador plummeted, the murder rate particularly, which made President Bukele incredibly popular. And I should say not just in El Salvador. In fact, in other Latin American countries affected by crime and particularly gang violence, they look up to him. Now, critics say that a lot of these people were arrested with no evidence whatsoever. Just having a tattoo, for instance, could get you locked up. Or if a neighbour felt like it, they could denounce you to the police and that would be it.

21:13There are also claims that the rate at which crime is dropping has stalled. However, he does remain very popular. Yeah, something like 2 % of the population almost in jail. Why though are prosecutors now talking about these incredible sentences? Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really make much sense, does it? I mean, a lot of these people already facing several life sentences. So, you know, they're now going to be in prison for 1000 years as opposed to 200 years. I mean, I think essentially the prosecutor's office wants to grab attention with this claim. I mean, they sort of said not some of these people will never leave the prison system.

21:46I guess they want to emphasize that this is a very robust campaign they're leading against the gangs, an approach which, as I said, has made Nayib Bukali literally one of the most popular leaders in Latin America. Indeed, he has popularity ratings that I think a lot of leaders around the world would want to emulate. So by his standards, this crackdown, this war on gangs has been a great success. BBC's Paul Moss. For years, the West African nation of Mali has been struggling to contain insurgencies by Islamist militants with recent attacks by a group linked to al-Qaeda, as well as Tuareg separatists.

22:25Now, the military government has banned the use of motorcycles outside the major cities because they can be used to launch attacks. This report from Richard Hamilton.

22:41Motorbikes are widely used in rural areas across Africa to move people and their goods.

22:51But they've also been used by armed groups across the Sahel. That's the middle band dividing the north of the continent from sub-Saharan Africa. And with bikes, the militants can carry out hit-and-run attacks across rough terrain, evade security forces and make quick getaways. So in response, the military junta in Mali has banned large motorbikes with engine capacities bigger than 125cc. It's also suspended the import and sale of motorcycles and spare parts for one year. Traders have been given just three months to declare their existing stock and officials have warned people that undeclared bikes will be seized.

23:40The measures come after attacks in April that were claimed by the al-Qaeda-linked JNIM as well as the Tuareg-Azawad Liberation Front. Armed groups seized the northern city of Kidal and attacked a military base outside the capital where the defence minister was killed. Since then, fighting has continued, with militants imposing a blockade en route into Bamako. Similar clampdowns on bikes have been made in the past by the authorities in Niger and Nigeria, where the long-running fight against Boko Haram continues. But it's not clear how much success these have had. In recent years, Mali's military regime has enlisted the support of Russian mercenaries.

24:29But during that time, the number of attacks have actually increased. Richard Hamilton. We're going to turn to Albania now and the country's Mediterranean coast because plans for a huge new development of luxury properties and a holiday resort there have sparked nightly protests against the government. One of the principal investors is a firm belonging to Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son-in-law, and campaigners say the project is being pushed through without enough scrutiny. Johnny Vorpsey is from PPNEA BirdLife Albania the country's oldest environmental group. This project is incompatible with the criterias of a protected area.

25:13So we are talking for a project that will be built inside one of the most important coastal wetlands and it's part of the protected area. And the size of it, it's the size of a new city. So from what has been stated, it's a 10 ,000 rooms project in what used to be the core, the more strict area of the protected landscape. So that's the reason why we oppose it. You say it's a protected area, but the government says it's private land and it has been sold accordingly and can be developed accordingly. These half-truths are what are misleading the whole case because there might be private land, for sure, and there are private lands inside the protected areas in Albania.

26:01But just imagine if everyone would develop as they wanted the private land in the protected area, then we wouldn't have protected areas. We would have cities. Another one could do a nuclear power plant. I don't know. Like if anyone does what they want to do in a protected area, if that's part of their private property, then the protected area doesn't make sense at all. Doesn't Albania need to develop its tourist industry? I mean, it'll create a lot of jobs, this project, won't it? Yes. I mean, there should be place for such developments, of course. And Albania has 80 % of its territory open to this development because only 20 % of the territory of Albania is a protected area.

26:49And meanwhile, the rest, it's not a protected area. So it's just in the wrong place, you think? Definitely. Like, we are not talking about not having such investment. Of course, every investment should go along the procedures. But in this case, inside the most intact delta in the Mediterranean, the most amazing wetland in Albania and in the Mediterranean, to transform it from a very unique site to a special place, then it would be like an inferior decision from the Albanian authorities to give up on that amazing nature there for an ordinary city that could be built elsewhere in Albania. Do you think there is a direct attempt by the government to try to get in with the Trump administration by pushing this project through, given that one of the big investors is Jared Kushner?