Maduro taken to US court

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2:01This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Janet Jalil and at 16 hours GMT on Monday the 5th of January, these are our main stories. The Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, and his wife have been transferred to a court in New York to face drugs charges two days after they were seized by US troops in a raid on Caracas. The UN Security Council is holding an emergency meeting on Venezuela. A French court finds 10 people guilty of spreading lies online about President Macron's wife, Brigitte. Also in this podcast... It's a struggle to get myself how I was because I was a very outgoing and open and loved people.

2:49But after the war, when I came out, I changed completely personality. The Auschwitz survivor and stepsister of Anne Frank, Eva Schloss, has died at the age of 96.

3:06As we record this podcast, the ousted Venezuelan leader, Nicolas Maduro, is due to make his first appearance in a US court on charges of drug trafficking and possession of weapons. Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores, were seized by American military forces from their compounding Caracas on Saturday and taken to a detention centre in New York. On Monday morning, the pair were flown by helicopter to a Manhattan court, both in handcuffs and escorted by heavily armed police. A group of Maduro supporters outside held signs saying USA hands off Venezuela.

3:53The veteran judge presiding over the case of Nicolas Maduro and his wife is 92-year-old Alvin Hellestein. Our correspondent outside court, Claire Richardson, told us more about him. He's spent 25 years in this role already and has a long history of handling high-profile cases, including on drug charges, terrorism charges. So he'll be no stranger to taking on this case against the Maduros. Now, he is an Orthodox Jew, 92 years old. The Israeli press have been making a lot out of this, looking at his outspoken Jewish identity, which he says does not interfere with his work as a federal judge, but how that could potentially influence the way that he looks at things, given Venezuela's connections with Iran.

4:43So the choice of the presiding judge that would have been randomly assigned to this case is interesting, and we will see what arguments are made by the Trump administration, by the government prosecution. Also outside the courtroom is our correspondent, Nedda Torfik. There will be the image of Nicolas Maduro appearing as a criminal defendant in front of a federal judge here at this court in Lower Manhattan. He is being transported here from that detention center in Brooklyn. And above me, there is a helicopter circling trying to capture every inch of that journey here. It is what is known as an arraignment.

5:21It's when Nicolas Maduro will be formally read the charges against him that are in that 25-page indictment accusing him of narco-terrorism, of weapons offenses. It is that indictment that was the justification that the Trump administration used to seize Nicolas Maduro, to depose him as president, to seize him from his home on a military base, and to bring him here to the United States to, as they say, face the full force of American justice. He will have the opportunity to enter a plea. He'll be read the charges, informed of his rights. But for the most part, there are so many questions. Will his lawyer, for example, argue that as a head of state he has immunity and that his seizure was illegal.

6:08You know, legal analysts I've spoken to say that there are parallels here to 36 years ago, actually, when the Panamanian military dictator, Manuel Noriega, was also brought to the United States and convicted. And he lodged those same arguments in a federal judge, but they didn't work. In fact, U.S. courts largely defer to the executive branch and find that no matter how a criminal defendant got to the United States, that the court does have jurisdiction to hear and decide the case against them. And Neda, the UN Security Council is also meeting in New York to discuss the US intervention in Venezuela.

6:52Yeah, it's a real kind of split screen moment. On one hand, the US criminal justice system at work. On the other hand, the international legal system at work. Of course, it is the UN Security Council that decides matters of international peace and security. And you had Colombia and China and Russia, allies of Nicolas Maduro, calling for this emergency meeting, accusing the Trump administration of breaking international law, of violating Venezuela's sovereignty, because they say Nicolas Maduro didn't pose any threat. There was no justification to use a self-defense argument to go into Venezuela.

7:33On the other hand, we hear from allies of the United States who, quite frankly, have been reluctant to criticize the Trump administration. They have instead emphasized the need for peace and stability in any transition in Venezuela. They have also stressed that they don't view Nicolas Maduro as a legitimate president either. Another key U.S. point in all of this. And then we will hear from a few briefers from the UN. Keep in mind, the UN Secretary General has said that he is deeply concerned that international law was broken here. Neddertorfik in New York. So what do we know of Delce Rodriguez, the woman who at the time of this recording is being sworn in as the interim president of Venezuela at a ceremony in Caracas?

8:22What influence does she wield in the military and business elites of Venezuela? and how will her appointment as leader go down with the voting public? During the last election, they're widely believed to have overwhelmingly voted for the opposition candidate Edmundo Gonzalez, who stood in place of Maria Corina Machado, who was banned from running. Ivan Briscoe is Senior Director for Policy at the International Crisis Group and has met Ms. Rodriguez on several occasions. Unlike many of the other senior chavistas, she is a very pleasant and courteous person with a number of the other figures in Chavismo, Chavez, some of the military figures that were close to him.

9:00They can be a little bit rough, a little bit tough. Some might say thuggish even, and that's the way they play their politics. But she was always, in the times I met her, and this was a few years ago now, impeccably turned out she speaks absolutely fluent English, which was obviously an attraction to the U.S. officials and decided to go with her as sort of the next president, it would seem. So she is seemingly someone, a chavista, with whom the US government can have a working relationship. They can perhaps impress on her the need for cooperation. And yet, because she has come from the heart of the movement and has been extremely loyal to Maduro over the last decade, the idea is that she can guarantee stability.

9:44It is a bit of a balancing act, though, isn't it? And I did mention that in the last elections, which were widely sort of debunked internationally, the opposition came out best in that. It's an extremely difficult balancing act because she's been so involved at the heights of government over the last decade. She has been party to a period of great authoritarian drift, heightened repression, which has only got worse after the electoral fraud of 2024, in which she was obviously fully participating. So, I mean, it's difficult to see her separating herself from that history. She's also been very antagonistic towards countries across the region.

10:27She is extremely outspoken. She has got a hard line in ideological terms, but she's pragmatic. And her pragmatism has come through most notably in the way she's been an important player in the economic liberalization of Venezuela since about 2018. You may remember that Venezuela had tremendous food shortages at that time, hyperinflation, the economy was tanking very badly. And she helped support the process of removing price controls, dollarizing the country, removing a lot of the subsidies for the poor. And that helped the economy to stabilize. And it's even grown a little bit in recent years.

11:08But her pragmatism is notable for one thing. It's pragmatism so that the government can survive. so that the government can live for another day. Ivan Briscoe, who was speaking there to Rebecca Kesby. Well, while international criticism of the US abduction is growing, and some of it is being voiced at that UN Security Council meeting that Ned Atorfic just mentioned, the news of Nicolas Maduro's ouster has also been celebrated by many of the millions of Venezuelans who fled their country because of the long-running economic crisis there. Bernadette Busman reports from Florida, home to one of the largest Venezuelan communities in the U.S.

11:53This is Doral, a leafy green Miami suburb considered the heart of South Florida's Venezuelan community. Over 40 % of people here are of Venezuelan origin, the largest concentration in the U.S. Many fled to seek a better life during Nicolas Maduro's presidency or that of Hugo Chavez before him. For them, Maduro's fall is something to celebrate. At the moment, there are several hundred people here, handing over Venezuelan flags, listening to music, dancing, and occasionally breaking out into chants of liberty, liberty. Police have blocked the area off with tape, happy to let Doral's huge Venezuelan population celebrate.

12:29So far, the party's lasted two days. Since news of Maduro's capture came out, hundreds of others have passed by, at times creating a snarling traffic jam of flag-waving cars. Many of them still can't believe it. It was the best news that we could have ever received. We do have a lot of family in Venezuela, so just to know that we have a communist that is out of the country, it's just great news. Just another step closer to freedom. When I first saw it, I couldn't believe it, I'm going to be honest with you. And then we kept seeing them develop and develop, and then we saw that at one point they had captured Maduro, I was too stunned.

13:05I started crying when I saw it because it's like when we came here, it was uncertain when we were going to be able to go back. And this is like the starting point. Do you think a lot of people will go home? A lot of people want to go home. We didn't want to come here in the first place. We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition. So we don't want to be involved with having somebody else get in and we have the same situation that we had for the last long period of years. So we are going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition.

13:50While Trump was speaking about Venezuela, other residents, particularly Cuban Americans, hope it has a ripple effect. and that the U.S. could topple other leftist leaders in the hemisphere. Among them is Irina Villarino, a restaurateur and one-time congressional candidate. If there was ever a situation in which the U.S. was willing to do that, would you like to see something similar happen for Cuba? Yes, by any force necessary, they should have been removed a long time ago because they have been the head of the snake that has caused a lot of misery all throughout the region. But for now, most people here are just happy to take in the moment.

14:27Every day we imagine that moment. So thank you so much for President Donald Trump and the United States for making those actions. And we have so, so hope right now for being our country completely free. Venezuelans in Florida speaking to Ben de Bussman. Well, Mr. Trump has made it clear that part of his justification for the military action in Venezuela is to allow US oil companies in to, as he puts it, fix the country's badly broken oil infrastructure. Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world, but the amount it actually produces is tiny by comparison. And experts say it would cost billions of dollars and take years to ramp up production.

15:14Venezuelan journalist Mariano Parago covers South America's oil industry for Reuters. More than$60 billion are needed in general for making it work again and just recover the capacity the Venezuelan industry had 20 years ago. So why is the Trump administration still so keen on Venezuelan oil? One explanation might lie with the world's biggest buyer of the nation's black gold, China. Here's the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio speaking to NBC. We don't need Venezuela's oil. We have plenty of oil in the United States. What we're not going to allow is for the oil industry in Venezuela to be controlled by adversaries of the United States.

15:53You have to understand, why does China need their oil? Why does Russia need their oil? Why does Iran need their oil? They're not even in this continent. This is the Western Hemisphere. This is where we live. And we're not going to allow the Western Hemisphere to be a base of operation for adversaries, competitors and rivals of the United States. We want to see the oil proceeds of that country benefit the people of Venezuela. Gideon Long, who's reported from the country for many years, told Rahul Tandon more about the largely untapped resource in Venezuela. Well, it's a staggering figure. 300 billion barrels of oil.

16:26That's the official reserves figure for Venezuela. And this is not a figure that Venezuela has made up. It is the official figure that's been ratified by OPEC. That's bigger even than Saudi Arabia. And just to put that into context, 300 billion barrels is about 17 % of global oil reserves in total. So it is an astonishing figure. The other crucial factor is, what type of oil is it? It's all very well having the biggest oil reserves in the world. But if you haven't got the infrastructure to get that oil out of the ground, it's not much good to you. And Venezuela doesn't really have that infrastructure anymore.

16:58It's been so decimated after decades of underinvestment. Secondly, you have to think about what that oil is. it's very heavy crude. And the crucial thing about it as well is that this oil is in the east of the country, in the Orinoco Basin, and it's relatively inaccessible. A lot of it is jungle, so it's not very easy to get out of the ground. And then the final consideration, Rahul, is that this is very heavy crude. So there's a lot of it, but it's not the best quality oil in the world and it needs extensive processing. And the crucial thing is that there are only a few places in the world that are capable of processing that very heavy Venezuelan crude.

17:34That may give us another clue as to why President Trump is so interested in Venezuelan oil, because some of those refineries which can deal with this sort of oil are in the United States, around Texas in particular. They are, in the Gulf of Mexico. So until fairly recently, when Nicolás Maduro came to power in Venezuela in 2013, the United States was actually the biggest buyer of Venezuela and oil in the world. It used to buy around 40 % of Venezuela's oil each year. And that was precisely because they had the processing capacity. It was a marriage made in heaven, really. The United States had access to heavy crude nearby in Venezuela.

18:11It didn't have to go to the Middle East or to Russia for it. And it had the processing capacity. Gideon Long. For more on this story, we've also been speaking to our Latin America correspondent, Ione Wells. You can go on YouTube, search for BBC News, click on the logo, then choose Podcasts and Global News Podcast. There's a new story available every weekday. Still to come in this podcast, South Korea hopes to boost trade with China and overcome a ban on K-pop. at a summit in Beijing.

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20:47This advertisement feature is paid and presented by Poland's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Looking for the perfect place to grow your business? For over 30 years, Poland has been a launchpad for innovation at the heart of Europe, powered by world-class research and ambitious young talent. From bold startups to established powerhouses, Poland offers the momentum, resources and reliability you need to take your business further. Poland, where businesses don't just grow, they're built to last. Find out more at polandyourplacetogrow.com. If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed?

21:22In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theories. I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The History Bureau, Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Following years in which France's First Lady, Brigitte Macron, has had to endure fake and scurrilous claims about her gender and sexuality, a court in Paris has found 10 people guilty of cyberbullying her.

22:05They were convicted of spreading unfounded claims that she had been born a man and linking the 24-year age gap between her and her husband to paedophilia. In a recent French television interview, Mrs Macron summed up what the online conspiracies claim about her. There are two versions. Either I was born a man or I was born Brigitte and died in 1960. and it's my brother who became a woman. Needless to say, they can't touch my genealogy. It's something impossible. A birth certificate is not nothing. It's a dad who, one day, or a mum, declares their child and who declares who he or she is. We don't play with that.

22:48Our Paris correspondent, Hugh Schofield, told me more about those on trial. They've all been found guilty, these ten people, eight men, two women. I mean, none of these people have any kind of profile. No one's heard of any of them. But when Brigitte Macron filed suit a year or so ago and made a formal complaint to the justice system that she was being cyberbullied, these were the people who were found first by the investigators. Three of them were people who had sort of instigated rumors online. And the others were people who'd picked them up and run with them and spread them themselves. They've all been found guilty.

23:24They've all been given suspended prison sentences pretty much in line with what the prosecutor was asking. There are reports that one of them has got a firm prison sentence. It's not entirely clear why. And one person who expressed remorse has been let off with just the requirement to go on some kind of course on cyberbullying and misuse of the Internet. And Mrs. Macron had initially tried to ignore these false claims, but we've heard from her family about the big impact this has had on her, her health, and even her relationship with her grandchildren. Yeah, I mean, clearly there's been a decision made which has turned this whole story into a bigger media story.

24:01I mean, the advice in the past, I would say, to leaders and their wives who've been subject to this sort of stuff has always been, ignore it, it'll go away. But that's changed. The world has changed. And the Macarons have decided, no, this has got too big, in particular because of the American connection and Candace Owens, the influencer over there, who's who's really key to all of this story, because there's a lot of her tweets in America which are being relayed, being spread by the people who have been convicted today. So the Macrons are going on the offensive. They're going to law. They're taking Candace Owens to court in America.

24:37And here they've sued a couple of people who held a big discussion online three or four years ago. And now this case of the 10, 8 men, 2 women who've been spreading the rumors. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a sign of the times. Leaders are no longer saying we should just ignore this stuff and let it go away. They're saying to each other themselves, no, we've got to act to stamp on this and show that we won't put up with it. Hugh Schofield in Paris. Even as tensions in East Asia are mounting, the Chinese and South Korean leaders have reaffirmed their ties at their second meeting in two months.

25:17following a grand welcoming ceremony at the great hall of the people in beijing the chinese president xi jinping said that china and south korea share common interests and shoulder important responsibilities in maintaining regional peace president lee jen-young is the first sitting south korean leader to visit china since 2019 and mr xi visited South Korea in October for the first time in more than a decade. Our China correspondent Stephen McDonnell told us more about these latest talks. Well, apart from the two leaders meeting themselves, there are these big business delegations as well involved.