More than the Score: When will Africa win its first Winter Olympic medal?

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0:30to make those markets work for you. Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Hi, I'm Emily Thomas from the Global News Podcast. And as the Winter Olympics get underway in Italy, we thought you'd enjoy hearing our podcast More Than The Score from the BBC World Service. It tells sports stories from beyond the score sheet. And in this episode, they're asking, when will Africa win its first Winter Olympic medal? You can listen to the whole episode right here. I hope you enjoy it. I'm Lee James and this is More Than The Score, the multi-sport global podcast from the BBC World Service that tells stories from beyond the score sheet.

1:11More than 3 ,500 athletes from 93 countries will be competing for 195 medals at the Milan Cortina Winter Games. It's been over six decades since an African nation made its debut, but when will the continent win its first Winter Olympic medal?

1:35The African nations of Benin and Guinea-Bissau will make their historic debuts at the 2026 Games, but with the established winter sport nations such as Norway, the USA, Canada and Germany looking to dominate the medal table once again, how hard is it for new countries to compete on the world stage? South Africa is sending its largest ever team with five athletes, but six decades since an African nation made its debut the continent's first medal remains elusive. We'll be joined by Africa's sleigh queen, the snow leopard and the snow bock. First of all it's Simidele Adiagbo who became the first Nigerian to compete at the Winter Olympics in 2018 and was the first black female Olympian in the sport of skeleton along with Matt Smith who only took up the sport three years ago and is now going to be South Africa's sole cross-country skier in the 2026 Olympics.

2:25Hello to you both. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for having me. Matt, first of all, you're only the 16th South African in Winter Olympic history to qualify for the Games. What will representing your country at your first Olympics mean to you? It's been a childhood dream. I'd always dreamt of being a springbok. My nation is very famous for our rugby team, right? And now today they call me the snowbok. So it's a nice reminder that not all dreams come true in the way you expected them. But actually, I would say that it's shaped in a more beautiful way and a more fitting way. So I'll take the snowball happily.

2:59And Simi, you'll know exactly what this feels like having competed in 2018 in Pyeongchang. You must be so proud of what you achieved in the sport to be a part of the Olympic Games. Yeah, it's a special achievement. And so I just want to start by congratulating Matt. I think this is just so awesome. And I wish you all the best in Milano Cortina. And I love that, that snowbox, like that is, that's so awesome. And it was really powerful to hear how you described kind of like this Olympic dream that has come to life in a very different way than maybe you originally expected, but it's come to life nonetheless.

3:37And that really resonates with me because that's my story as well. I started in track and field and that was my original Olympic dream to be a summer Olympian. But then it took shape at the Winter Olympics in a way that was very unexpected. but even actually more sweet in a way because it was so historic for the continent of Africa. So I applaud you for continuing that history, paving the path for more Africans. And I think it's so awesome to keep that door wide open. So congratulations. Thank you. I think it's such a unique point in time, Simbi, because we are at an inflection point, I find, because I'm proud to say that whilst I'm referred to as a snowbox, actually, I'm part of the snowbox because South Africa is not sending me.

4:26This is the first games in history we're sending more than two athletes. We're actually sending five athletes. So it's very groundbreaking what happened right now. And we're seeing this wave now, especially in my sport. I don't know how it is for you, Simi, but in cross-country skiing, I'm seeing people from Tanzania in cross-country skiing, Nigeria, other African nations. And we are now seeing that more and more of these athletes are qualifying and going to games. So I feel like we are at a point now where continental Africa is going to be represented more. So 2030, 2034 coming. So I feel very grateful to be part of that initial ripple that will now hopefully create waves for a very large population continent as well to be medal contending in once was a formerly Northern Hemisphere and sporting Olympics.

5:12What I've noticed is since I competed in Pyeongchang, at that point, it was the most African countries that were represented at an Olympic Games. I think it was like eight countries or so from the continent. But then we saw a drop off in 2022 in Beijing. And that for me was a step back. So I'm eager to see what the data is looking like for this Olympic Games. But just hearing that South Africa has five athletes in the delegation is awesome. I know someone from Skeleton that will be presenting. So Nicole Berger, shout out to my Skeleton sliding folks. But I think that's awesome. And that's the trajectory that we need to continue to see.

5:57You know, Africa is a huge continent, more than a billion people. And so it's really important that that representation is proportionate at the Olympic Games. And so I'm glad to hear that there's continuous movement. I was the first Nigerian winter Olympian. And so Pyeongchang was, you know, less than 10 years ago. So we're not even a decade in. And so what the challenge that comes with that is just limited infrastructure, limited support, limited funding. And these are barriers that make it difficult for more people to to be on that path. So I don't know what your experience has been, but I think those are just some of the barriers that I've seen on my journey.

6:41Well, I think I'm right in saying that it's not even four years, is it, since you took up the sport of cross-country skiing? Three years, and now here you are at the Olympics. Incredible. From zero. Yeah, three years from zero. It's been an unbelievable journey. And actually, it's not three, it's two, because you qualified the year before. So I'd lost a year before I started. But Simi, as you said there, I just wanted to say something that has been a running thread throughout my journey. You can't be what you can't see. And I think you, paving the way, you talk about Nigeria as a country. I mean, most people are surprised it has, I mean, pushing quarter of a billion population, right?

7:14That'll be on par with the US in probably the next 20, 20 years or so. What an unbelievable source of talent that could and should find its way through every sport. And it is. But as you quite rightly said, the pathways are not necessarily set there. So and I think as athletes, we also have a responsibility to be role models, but also to pave that way. You know, if you were to use a metaphor of snow, you know, if you walk through fresh snow, you know, you make a path for the person behind you, then they make it a bit more streamlined and it just gets better. You know, even if it's still snowing, there's a pathway for the others to come.

7:47And it's no different in this sense. So I think, you know, the amazing work you've done in the last sort of coming to a decade now to support athletes going to further future games. And it's something that I take on with great pride that I see. How can I contribute to the next wave of South African athletes by bringing in a north, south, south, north, you know, be it funding flows of knowledge, experience and talent to hopefully. And I feel confidently be more represented in games to come. Well I did also promise we'd be joined by a snow leopard and I'm delighted to say that we can hear now from Sabrina Zimada who became the first female and first ever Alpine skier to represent Kenya at a Winter Olympics in 2018.

8:28Despite qualifying for Milan, Cortina has been forced to miss out due to financial difficulties. Well Sabrina, first of all, you raced in the Super G event in 2018. What was that Olympic experience like for you then? Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, it was my first big Olympic Games. And yeah, I participate into a discipline, Super G and Giant Slalom. I made so many cool experiences, met so many awesome athletes. And yeah, it was just incredible. What does it mean to you then to be an Olympian, to be a winter Olympian? A lot, actually, especially for Africa, which is not known for winter sports. Also, Kenyan are more known for the marathon and athletics.

9:13So, yeah, it's a big honor. What was the reaction then when you were representing Kenya at the Winter Games? Yeah, it was huge. I mean, the attention was insane. I was 18, 19. And yeah, I didn't expect that. And I got so many messages and they get in touch with snow, with ski racing. And yeah, it was so cool. How does it feel to have broken down those barriers then to have been a trailblazer for Kenya at the Winter Games? It means really a lot. I think to be the first a female especially it's it's a big honor because I went through a lot of challenges I've through a lot of ups and downs but I'm really proud that I made it this far and yeah it's cool let me ask you about these games though for you because you're qualified I understand but then announced your decision to retire last year you had cited financial difficulties you spoke of the challenges that you had faced how did you come to that difficult decision then Sabrina After I went to Kenya this summer, I tried to talk with them and had a couple of meetings.

10:26But like in the past seasons, it was always very hard to find the financial support from them, that they understand what it means to be on this level. And yeah, so I made this hard decision this summer. I mean, I fighted for over 11 years. I achieved a lot, even through all these challenges. And I'm very, very thankful for my sponsors and who keep believing in me. A tough one to take, though, when you had the chance to go and compete at the Olympics again. True. Yeah. How did you feel? At the beginning, very sad, for sure. frustrated because you know I worked really hard for for this and especially for the Cortina Olympic Games it's one of my favorites and I really love the slope and everything but yeah a dream without a plan is just a dream so that was the decision and now I'm accepting it and I'm looking forward and I'm also building up a ski camp so I can take all this experience for the upcoming champions and generations to support them and to hopefully help them with better surroundings.

11:47My thanks to Kenya's Sabrina Zimada. I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the boardroom, the newsroom and the trading floor. That's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive. But even I've got questions. Join me, Maren's Upset Web, every week for my show Maren Talks Money from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists and experts about how markets really work. And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you. Follow Merin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.

12:24Nigeria's Simidele Adi Agbo and South Africa's Matt Smith are still with us. Let's talk about the challenges that are in place then for some of the non-traditional nations to compete at the Winter Olympic Games. What is really blocking the path then? And is it getting easier? I'd like to say yes, but in some ways, no. I think definitely the see it to be it is in place. So the inspiration is there. I say to people, yeah, you have to see it to be it, but I didn't have it. So I had to be it so that others could seat. So that is there. And other people have contributed to that. I'm certainly not the only one.

13:09But I think where we're kind of still struggling is systemically, we don't have the systems in place for support. And that happens from the global level. So I look to the IOC and the international federations to really put some structured programs in place that will help develop this rich talent pool that Matt spoke about. Africa is bursting with talent, but you need structure to be able to develop that talent. And so the National Federation struggled to do that on their own because in a lot of cases, they're new to the sport. They're still trying to figure it out. They're lacking training facilities.

13:52They're lacking knowledgeable coaches. They're lacking the expertise and know-how, but they need the partnership of those who do have it. So that would be the international federations and also at the IOC level. I really look to them to try to put some more formal systems in place to create a pipeline that will help groom and develop the talent for generations to come. Sure, you have dedicated, committed athletes like myself and Matt who are doing what we can. But it takes a village, as we like to say in Africa. And that's true in sport. And the other thing that I'd like to actually ask Matt a little bit about is kind of the qualifying system, because I think that that also plays a role.

14:39And from what I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, in cross-country skiing, you have some of the most universal, open kind of qualification systems within the Winter Olympic movement. You're right. I'm not sure if it's just cross-country. There may be a few other disciplines. I'm not aware. But cross-country skiing, first of all, we have one of the largest, if not the largest quota allocation of men versus men and women, right? I think we have 148 spots for men, 148 spots for women across all the races, right? Meaning the top nations take eight and then it goes down that that list there is a pathway to qualify if you know you can't turn up punch your ticket and go you can't be the best athlete in your country no you have there's a minimum ioc olympic quota uh number you have to hit of how good you are in specific races and then there's a uh ski federation fist uh carrot thing so there's two things you need to need to hit and you know for taking myself as an example right you know i started three years ago from zero having never skied really beforehand um i've spent three years of my life on it full-time effectively and whilst also doing a bit of work to pay for the whole thing self-funded as you said um i was an athlete before so i did come with that cardiovascular system from triathlon so i didn't just walk off the sofa to do this but you know there's opportunity for other triathletes then to look at this and then the pathway there so to answer your question cross-country skiing and the quota system it is Still, if you have an Olympic dream and you put the work in and you sacrifice it, there is a pathway.

16:12If you don't start at 12 years old or two years old, I started at 32 years old. I'm 35 now and I have a child. There is a pathway to make it, which I think is an opportunity to grow the bottom end of the table of nations, as you referred to. And now I'm doing good with it. That's the thing. I'm not using this as my ticket to go to the Olympics, one and done. Ciao for now. Thanks for having me. I believe and I want to contribute and become a role model in the process, as we've spoken about, to pave the way for more to come. And just to underline that, Simi, as well, because you narrowly missed out on automatic qualification for Beijing in 2022, and there was no African athlete represented in the sliding sports four years ago because the continental quota system was dropped for the sliding sports.

17:00So why is it important then to ensure there is this greater representation, there is that greater diversity in the sport and opportunities then for athletes from Africa, from other developing nations to come through in the Winter Games? Yeah, because point blank, this is part of the Olympic value system. If you look in the charters of the Olympic charter, you see that universitality, which is what you have described, which is representation for all of the continents that make the Olympic movement. This is an important value within the Olympics and the Olympic movement. So it's important that the Winter Olympics represents that.

17:39In 2018, we did have continental representation, which created a pathway for myself and other athletes to be able to represent our countries and represent Africa in the Olympic Games. But it was there was such resistance from the international sliding community because people felt that we didn't earn this and they felt like it was a pathway that wasn't that was somehow taking away from other athletes who have been in the sport and been training all their lives for this and were perhaps better from a competition level standpoint. point. But that's not what the Olympics is about. Yes, you want the best of the best, but it's really about nations being able to be represented.

18:26And again, these are systemic things that I would ask that the IOC, the International Federations, really take a look at, because these are things that are going to help with future generations to be able to see more of us from the continent of Africa represented in 2030 and 2034 and going forward for the future. So the more resources and structure we can build in, I have no doubt that we will see an African medal at the Olympic Games within the next, who knows, decade or more. So let's put a bet on it. That'll be fun. Yeah. So we just need the opportunity. That's what, you know, at the end of the day, that's the starting point.

19:10If you don't have opportunity and access, then you can't even, you know, you don't have a chance. And talking about being part of a larger community as well, I think, Matt, you're in a WhatsApp group, aren't you, for athletes from these non-traditional nations, shall we say? So what is said amongst the group then? What do you do? Can you provide support for athletes from different countries around the world that are taking part in the Olympics? I'll tell you what's said in the group. Hey, I'm coming through Oslo this weekend. Who has a sofa for me to crash on. Yes, I do. It grew in the most organic of ways.

19:41You would be at an event and you'd see Joey from Uruguay all of a sudden. And then he didn't have someone to wax his skis. So why don't you come and join me in Mexico over here? And then it slowly grew into this group, which is now I believe there's 54 people in the group, probably represented by 45 nations or so from Saudi Arabia to Tanzania, etc. And we share resources. We share sofas when one is needed. We share car lifts, accommodation, and it has become the thing that I will take with me because the truth in my experience, of course, unless you maybe win a gold medal, but in 20, 30, 50 years time, when I look back on my life as a professional athlete, I will probably more often than not forget the time and the place in the race, but I will never forget who I've crossed the finish line with.

20:28And that is Team Avalanche in its essence. So Team Avalanche is your social media WhatsApp group then, is it? It is exactly that. It is where I go to for all information and where we share resources. It's where we share information about races. We share waxing for the skis and equipment is sold and shared. It has a whole secondary market in there as well. So it's a beautiful thing that I think everyone in that group is grateful to have. And we have debates in that. We challenge how can we help FIS and IOC make this more universally acceptable, as Stimmy perfectly said there. So, you know, we have a political angle as well, where we discuss how to make this better for all, not just let's fight our corner.

21:07Let's be more holistic about how we look at the sport grow, because we feel that we can contribute to the growth in the sport coming from places where the sports are often unknown and could have the potential to be not just known, but be medal contending in the future. So an African medal at a Winter Olympics is definitely possible. What within the next decade would you both say? What do you think, Simi? Maybe I was a bit aggressive with that. Um, but you know, I like to dream big, but it is possible with the right talent, with the right support and with the right resources, a medal is possible.

21:42So 10 years, if we're really all clicking on all cylinders and we get an influx of funding, who knows? But, um, yeah, I think maybe the next 25 years might be a little bit more feasible. my money is on simi and your sport actually my money is on nicole burger who has come out of not nowhere but has come has risen to the ranks in a way i've never seen anything and qualified for the games now and i can't wait to see her race because i really feel that she's going to not only get us our first medal as a continent but get south africa its first medal as well instead of her mind 10 years could be 10 days or so maybe until that medal yeah i would love to see no pressure nicole but i believe in you just finally matt's heading out to these games then simi you've been there before have you got a little bit of advice for matt heading into the olympics it's simple just enjoy every moment enjoy it enjoy it enjoy it um it's like nothing you would have ever experienced in your life so the beauty of all these nations coming together for those 17 days and really being in that beautiful bubble of the village, just being around athletes from all sports and all nations.

22:56One of my best memories from my Olympics was just getting to be in the dining hall. And this is a space where everyone is able to connect. So I remember just really thinking like, okay, I have three meals a day. Who can I connect with this meal? And having lunch with Great Britain and dinner with another nation and just like really using those opportunities to just meet people and celebrate this global community of sport. And you're making history for your country. This is a memory that is going to live with you. So the more you enjoy it, the better you're going to do. Savor all of the memories and have lots of fun.

23:36Thank you, Simi. It's an interesting one because we have these pins that I think many of us athletes know about. But for those who don't, you're actually given a bag of sort of three, four hundred pins. And the pins are your Olympic Committee flag, South Africa's Olympic Committee flag, Saskatchewan in my case. And it is sort of almost a game during the Olympics to get all the pins. So, for example, I would go over to Nigeria and say, hey, Simi, can I give you a pin swap, right? So actually, we spoke about our fight to get into the qualification criteria and be there. And maybe sometimes we feel a little bit that we don't belong in some cases.

24:08But when you're at the Games, I think we are rare. And therefore, we are in high demand, actually. So we need to ration the pins, actually, because everybody wants the South African, you know, the one South African pin from their village or Nigerian or whatever else. Right. So, yeah, I think I'm going to use that to my advantage. I'll be in demand. See how you can use them to your benefit. Matt, we wish you all the very best. Have a great time at the Olympics. Thank you so much. I had to do it. Holding the South African flag up here. Well done to everyone who's qualified. Well done to everyone who's watching.

24:37and I cannot wait to see a South African or continental African, but obviously I'm a little bit biased, podium coming very soon. Yeah, let's hope so. Matt, Simi, thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. That's all from More Than The Score. My thanks to Simi Dele, Adi Agbo and Matt Smith. Be sure to follow and subscribe to More Than The Score wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. But until next time, from Melee James, it's goodbye for now.

25:11Hi, it's Emily Thomas from the Global News Podcast again. I hope you enjoyed this bonus episode. To hear more stories from the Winter Olympics and other sporting events, every weekday, search for More Than The Score wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

25:37But even though I've got questions, join me, Merrin's Upset Web, every week for my show, Merrin Talks Money, from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists, and experts about how markets really work. And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you. Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.