In short
Abdi Noor-Eftin’s journey from war-torn Somalia to winning the U.S. diversity visa lottery, settling in Maine, and assessing whether the “American dream” is still attainable amid discrimination, paused visa lotteries, and Trump-era policy changes.
Guest backgrounds
Abdi Noor-Eftin grew up in 1990s Somalia during civil war and famine; later fled after Al-Shabaab took over. He lived in Kenya, then moved to Maine in 2014 after winning the U.S. diversity lottery. He now lives in Yarmouth, Maine, and works in storytelling/communications.
Key claims
The American dream is “alive but not well.” He credits America’s promise and opportunity, but says Trump’s rhetoric and immigration changes (including pausing the visa lottery) and funding cuts harmed him and other would-be immigrants.
Notable examples
eating sand/tree bark in famine; sleeping in a dug-out hole during shellings; first July 4th fireworks triggering trauma; learning English via Schwarzenegger movies; construction job and earning a political science degree; losing a nonprofit job and health insurance after federal funding cuts; Minnesota Somali fraud scandal and his criticism of “welfare fraud” narratives.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to Abdi's Story
0:39 to 2:24
Exploration of the American dream and introduction to Abdi's journey from Somalia.
“The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary.”
Abdi's Childhood in Somalia
2:24 to 3:38
Details of Abdi's difficult childhood and experiences during the Somali civil war.
“Millions of people have moved to America's shores with the belief that if you work hard, anything is possible.”
First Encounters with Americans
3:38 to 5:24
Abdi's memories of his first encounters with American soldiers and the impact on his dreams.
“And when his baby sister died, Abdi remembers helping to dig her grave.”
Challenges in Somalia
5:24 to 6:46
Abdi's struggles under Al-Shabaab and the impact on his freedoms.
“Abdi, it's a pleasure to meet you and a pleasure to have you on The Global Strive.”
Journey to the U.S.
6:46 to 9:00
Abdi's perilous journey from Somalia to Kenya and the dream of reaching America.
“But then in 2006, when he was in his early 20s, Somalia was overtaken by the Islamist group Al-Shabaab.”
Winning the Visa Lottery
9:00 to 10:44
Abdi's experience applying for and winning the diversity visa lottery.
“The lottery program was the last desperate thing I had to try.”
First Impressions of America
10:44 to 12:39
Abdi reflects on his initial experiences and cultural shocks upon arriving in America.
“I think it's fair to say, is a pretty bright-eyed young man.”
Life in Maine
12:39 to 14:00
Abdi describes early days in Maine, experiencing nature and adapting to a new life.
“At the very beginning, you began by saying some of the things that surprised you.”
Abdi's Arrival in America
14:00 to 18:00
Abdi shares his first impressions of America, including the landscape and climate.
“If you look it up on the map, you see so many trees.”
Navigating New Opportunities
18:00 to 23:20
Abdi discusses his journey through education and the concept of the American dream.
“Going out skiing, even though my friends here, Somali friends here in Maine keep telling me that's a white thing.”
Show all 15 chapters
Challenges of Identity and Integration
23:20 to 28:00
Abdi reflects on his experiences with identity, discrimination, and the impact of Trump's presidency on immigrants.
“There's something there that there's a tremendous hatred there.”
Minnesota's Fraud Scandal and Its Impact on the Somali Community
28:00 to 29:24
Explore the repercussions of a major fraud scandal on Minnesota's Somali community amid political tensions.
“Last December, the Somali community in Minnesota became headline news after a series of fraud allegations.”
Abdi's Response to Trump's Criticism
29:24 to 31:04
Hear Abdi share his feelings on President Trump's remarks about immigrants and their impact on his American dream.
“It's happening in the context of a live, active political debate about what it means to be an American.”
Family Dynamics and Dreams of Relocation
31:04 to 33:12
Abdi discusses his family's situation, including his brother's life in Canada and hopes for their family's future.
“I've asked you a lot of different ways, I guess, about the American dream, because it's a shorthand for the allure of the United States.”
Reflections on America and Canada
33:12 to 34:28
Abdi reflects on the differences between life in America and Canada and shares his personal sentiments towards both countries.
“hoping to start a process to get them to Canada.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Asma Khalid:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30Asma Khalid:business needs in one place, saving you time, headaches, and serious money. Stop paying for missing pieces. Go to odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com to learn more.
0:42Abdi Nor Iftin:The United States is about to mark its 250th anniversary.
0:47Asma Khalid:And so on the Global Story podcast from the BBC, we're telling surprising tales of American influence on the world stage and in ordinary people's lives all across the globe. We have this ability to export our story and a lot of people have bought it. I feel like the American dream is alive, but not well.
1:05Abdi Nor Iftin:From the BBC, it's the United States at 250.
1:08Asma Khalid:Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Tristan Redmond, one of the hosts of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. The United States is marking 250 years since its founding. And since the Global Story is a show about where the world and America meet, We're dedicating a whole week of podcasts to some surprising tales of American influence on the world stage. We've had some very special guests like Roman Mars, host of the hit podcast 99 % Invisible. We've delved into the shadow world of the CIA. And we've heard how the United States helped the rise of a rival superpower.
1:49Asma Khalid:Today, as a bonus for your feed, we're bringing you an episode from the series. So for this episode, we look at the American dream. It's one of the most successful exports the United States has ever sold the world. That tantalizing promise of a better, freer, richer life. In this episode, we tell one incredible story of the journey of an American dream seeker and ask whether that dream is still attainable. To hear more of the series, search The Global Story wherever you get your podcasts. Now enjoy the show.
2:24Abdi Nor Iftin:Millions of people have moved to America's shores with the belief that if you work hard, anything is possible.
2:32Asma Khalid:I did not see America as a place. I saw it as an idea, the idea of freedom.
2:39Abdi Nor Iftin:But is the American dream fading?
2:43Asma Khalid:I feel like the American dream is alive but not well.
2:46Abdi Nor Iftin:For more than a decade, the BBC has been following the extraordinary story of one dream seeker. Someone who grew up loving America, who literally won a lottery, a golden ticket to come to the United States, and believed deeply in the promise of America, but now has somewhat complicated feelings. From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. And today on The Global Story, Abdi's American Dream.
3:18Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi Noor Eftin grew up in Somalia in the 1990s during a civil war.
3:24Asma Khalid:I don't remember peace. All I remember is war. I have had so many bullets flying, droughts and all that stuff. So there are many situations where I almost died.
3:33Abdi Nor Iftin:He experienced a life that no child should have to. When the war led to a famine, he and his siblings ate sand and tree bark to try to relieve their hunger. And when his baby sister died, Abdi remembers helping to dig her grave. It was in the middle of this crisis when Abdi had his first encounter with Americans.
3:53Asma Khalid:I was in Mogadishu. It was really one night. I think I was like seven or something. My father was talking to my mother. Americans are landing tonight. I was like, what? What do the Americans look like? Who are they? and I was thinking like giant people, you know. But then that was the night United States forces were landing in Mogadishu. There was a smile on their faces, you know what I'm saying? And I went around these white people and every one of them looks like Rambo. I shouted, Rambo, Rambo, Rambo! And all of them turned back just looking at me, smiling. And they were just talking. They were feeding us with jam.
4:29Asma Khalid:They give us butter, bread. They give us sweets. It's the tastiest food that I've ever eaten. Wow. Wow.
4:36Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi began dreaming of America. He would go to the one house in the neighborhood with the television and watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies, taking a paper and pencil with him to jot down words so he could teach himself English, minus the Austrian accent, of course.
4:50Asma Khalid:I'm in love with the American culture. I'm in love with the American education. I'm in love with their beautiful roads and streets. I'm in love with the American language. I'm in love with everything, everything in the United States.
5:08Abdi Nor Iftin:These clips of Abdi come from a documentary the BBC made with him back in 2014. Back then, he was just about to move to America to begin his American dream. So with the 250th anniversary coming up this Saturday, we thought, who better to talk to? And I gave Abdi a call. Abdi, it's a pleasure to meet you and a pleasure to have you on The Global Strive. I've heard about your life. I've listened to some of the reporting. I know the BBC had been following your life going back more than a decade. So it's a real pleasure to meet you, albeit virtually, but still a pleasure.
5:44Asma Khalid:Indeed. You are also famous, Asma. I'm famous.
5:49Abdi Nor Iftin:That's very kind of you to say. And you're joining us now. You live in Maine.
5:53Asma Khalid:Yes, absolutely. It's nothing like where I grew up. Nothing like that. And so you might be wondering, what is this guy from 110 degrees Somalia doing in Maine?
6:04Abdi Nor Iftin:Maine's been home for a long time now. And this weekend, Abdi will be celebrating July 4th, just like everyone else. But one part of the celebration triggers memories.
6:16Asma Khalid:Fireworks! This is one of the shocking things about America to me. You know, fireworks. Because I have a trauma about gun sounds and stuff like that. And I remember the first July 4th in 2015, I said, whoa, what two groups are fighting in our neighborhood? Because the fire was so loud. The entire town lit up.
6:40Abdi Nor Iftin:I mentioned already that Abdi had a really, really hard childhood and war-torn Somalia. That was the 1990s. But then in 2006, when he was in his early 20s, Somalia was overtaken by the Islamist group Al-Shabaab. Abdi told me that life in Somalia went from hard to unbearable.
7:00Asma Khalid:Al-Shabaab imposed strict rules. And that was the first time in my life that I lost freedom. Freedom to have a haircut the way I wanted. Freedom to play soccer the way I wanted. Freedom to go to movies and everything collapsed. And that is what I lost.
7:16Abdi Nor Iftin:Once again, he faced war and his house was destroyed by a bomb.
7:21Asma Khalid:I went where it used to be my bedroom, which was now gone. I took a shovel and I dig out of dirt like you're digging a graveyard. And I basically lived six feet whole because that was the best way to survive the nightly bullets, the nightly shellings.
7:38Abdi Nor Iftin:Hold on. You dug a hole in the dirt and you slept in that concave area. Yes, I did.
7:48Asma Khalid:Oh, wow. Yeah, I lived in there for quite a while within all those years. And I was growing taller. I was becoming basically from a boy to a man. And that's a very dangerous time.
8:01Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi worried that now that he was a grown man, al-Shabaab or another armed group would force him to join them. So he fled his home country and smuggled himself into neighboring Kenya. He had escaped the bloodshed of Somalia, but he could not entirely escape al-Shabaab. The group had carried out several attacks in Kenya, and shortly after Abdi moved there, the Kenyan government began a crackdown on the Somali immigrant community. Abdi remembers experiencing a lot of violence and discrimination during those days, being chased, for example, by men with machetes who would come to associate all Somalis with al-Shabaab.
8:40Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi was terrified of being deported back to Somalia, and he dreamed of a way to make it to the safest place he could imagine, America. But the only possible route seemed like a moonshot.
8:52Asma Khalid:Diversity lottery obviously is something everyone knows about, unless you're American. Americans don't know anything about it. The lottery program was the last desperate thing I had to try.
9:06Abdi Nor Iftin:The diversity visa program is an initiative the U.S. government launched in the 1990s to increase the cultural diversity of U.S. immigration. Now, maybe you all don't know about this because, frankly, I did not. But in countries all over the world, this program has been a really big deal. In some years, for example, there were over 20 million applicants. Winners are randomly selected for only around 55 ,000 visas. So it's like the lottery of a lifetime if you win. Abdi applied in 2013. And six months later, he went to an internet cafe to check the results. Here's how he described that moment back then to the BBC.
9:45Asma Khalid:I put my confirmation number, I put my date of birth, and then clicked. And I was thinking like, this is the day, please. God help me. I was serious. So there was a few seconds of silence. you have been randomly selected for file processing and that's it. I realized that one. I walked out with these friends all, you know, shouting behind me, in front of me, you know, holding my hands, shaking me. And the guy who belongs to the Internet Cafe also came out. And he said, you won, man, you got it, you got it, you're very young. Welcome to America, man, America's a beautiful country. He was telling me all about America.
10:25Asma Khalid:And that was really a very beautiful day for me.
10:33Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi was 29 when he moved to the United States. He is now 41. And when we spoke recently, I could not resist playing him a clip of his first impressions. So you win that visa lottery, Abdi. And in 2014, you arrive in Maine. I think it's fair to say, is a pretty bright-eyed young man. And I want to play you a clip of yourself from that time when you first arrived. It was shortly after you came. You were speaking with the BBC reporter who made this documentary, Leo Hornack.
11:06Asma Khalid:So can I tell you some of the surprises that strikes me most? I'm the only Black on this road. But the good thing about it is that there's no racism at all. they're friendly i love them there's something called a washing machine a machine that washes the dishes i it was a surprise to me and it's still a surprise to me i still don't believe something is washing the dishes okay there's there's this place that we put the bread in and the bread gets heated the toaster oh my god that's it and you know what i just love more than everything else but it's a ice cream i never liked it i thought like it's a baby kind of thing it's a woman kind of thing but then now i act like a baby but then and i was like they make me fat i want to be fat come with me i was very skinny in my whole life i don't care abdi oh boy what do you think is your
12:11Abdi Nor Iftin:listen back to that of the...
Read the full transcript
12:13Asma Khalid:A little embarrassing, I guess. But yeah, it was quite a surprise. But now that I know how everything works...
12:23Abdi Nor Iftin:The appliances.
12:24Asma Khalid:The appliances.
12:25Abdi Nor Iftin:You know,
12:26Asma Khalid:I'm glad I listened to that because it brings back some memories. Everything was brand new. But I'm not embarrassed. Come on. You know, everybody has a place to start. And I started right there.
12:39Abdi Nor Iftin:At the very beginning, you began by saying some of the things that surprised you. And it was not just about the technological appliances. You say, I'm the only Black on this road. The good thing about it is that there's no racism at all.
12:54Asma Khalid:So I still have a lot of respect for the neighbors who are actually very protective with everything else that's going on. They call me, they text me, they want to make sure that I'm okay and saving this. So there's a reason why I'm still in the neighborhood. So nobody has so far now many years later has actually discriminated me based on my race. Nobody has called the police on me yet. Racism. I'm glad I said that. Honestly, I'm very glad I said that because I just came from Kenya where I knew discrimination. I knew hate. Living as a Somali in Kenya, you're saying. Right, right. But now that I have my own car, I've lived here for over 10 years, I have experienced racism, not necessarily in my neighborhood, but across the state, I'm going to say, yes, absolutely there's racism now.
13:52Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi, what were those early days like in Maine? Whereabouts were you living in Maine, by the way?
13:57Asma Khalid:Yeah. So Maine is kind of wild. It's wilderness. If you look it up on the map, you see so many trees. I live in a town called Yarmouth. A lot of people know Portland. Portland is the biggest city. And it's just 15 minutes from here if I drive. The early days, depends on the weather.
14:13Abdi Nor Iftin:What time of year was it when you moved?
14:15Asma Khalid:August. The grass was still green. I thought, wilderness. Oh, I've never seen anything like this in Somalia. It feels great. You know, deer and turkey and all the weird animals that America has. And then all of a sudden, the trees change colors. There is nothing like I've seen ever anywhere in Somalia in Kenya. And it was amazing watching that. And snow has started. I did not know how to explain what I was feeling. The cold, the snow, the fluffiness of it to my mother. She has never had a refrigerator. She has no idea what the freezer looks like. So I remember telling her, mom, it's like your own breath.
14:55Asma Khalid:You can see it because how cold it is. you might be tossing water up in the air and it freezes. And my mother said, you're describing heaven. So one day, hopefully, my brother and I are actually trying our best to get her over here for her to at least experience snow before she dies.
15:16Abdi Nor Iftin:So your first job was construction. You were living in this kind of small town outside of Portland, Maine. What was life like?
15:24Asma Khalid:Construction in Somalia and Kenya means different things. Here, the material is weird. It's different. The most interesting thing to me was insulation. This little itchy stuff. That was my job, loading up bags full of that stuff. And then here are skeletons of main houses, just wood, nothing else. To me, it's just amazing. And then the other part is basement. Nobody has a basement in Somalia. Nobody has a basement in Kenya. And I remember asking people in Maine, like, is that if a war breaks out, you're running to the basement? They laughed hard and they said, no, basement is part of the house, you know.
16:03Asma Khalid:And it was funny that I brought that up.
16:04Abdi Nor Iftin:So, Abdi, did you intend to continue doing construction or were you saving your money during that time period for something else?
16:10Asma Khalid:I was saving money for something else, which was school. I really wanted to go to school. College. College. I went to community college and I walked hard. So from community college, I graduated to a four-year college. And that's how I got my bachelor's degree. without ever finishing high school.
16:28Abdi Nor Iftin:What did you study, Abdi?
16:29Asma Khalid:I studied political science and international relations as my major.
16:34Abdi Nor Iftin:So, Abdi, you came to the U.S. much like many, many people come to U.S. Millions of people have come to America for opportunity, for, as we say, the American dream. And a core part of that American dream is the belief that you can reinvent yourself, that here in America you can be anything you want to be. When you came, did you change from the Abdi you were in Africa? No.
17:01Asma Khalid:I actually think I became more connected to the Abdi I was back home. I say that because one thing that scared me the most when I moved into the U.S. is I saw young Somalis born in the U.S. unable to speak good Somali. and identity-wise feeling, identity crisis going on in their minds. And it made me think, I should be glad that I speak English, but I'm also, I should be more grateful that I am attached to where I come from, to who I was.
17:38Abdi Nor Iftin:So, Abzi, did you always feel, when you first came, did you instantly feel that connection with Somalia? Because you mentioned you loved watching the movies and you were so into American culture. And so when you came, did you instantly feel like you want to reconnect with your Somali culture? Did that happen over time?
17:56Asma Khalid:So first of all, I take the courage to try to integrate. Let's say that word. Going out skiing, even though my friends here, Somali friends here in Maine keep telling me that's a white thing. Stop going skiing. What do you mean hiking? What do you mean you went out? And I understand where they're coming from. But I'm not scared, mostly because I don't think integration steals anything from me. I know how to bake pies now. America loves pies. Apple pie.
18:25Abdi Nor Iftin:You can make that one.
18:25Asma Khalid:Apple pie. Exactly. Yes. Even though pecan pie is my favorite. Oh, yeah.
18:30Abdi Nor Iftin:Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah.
18:31Asma Khalid:But after all, I'm American because I'm voting. I don't know if so many Americans would agree with me when I say I'm American because I've been told, go back to your country. I've been told, you know, deport. I hear that word a lot. even though they have no idea who I am and that I'm a voter as a neutralized American citizen now. But there's two sides of America. There's a side that is respectful, wants to listen, wants to hear our stories, wants to eat our food. And then there's the other side that really feels we're poisoning them, right? I'm not using that word lightly. I've been told that before, you know, bringing Sharia law into our neighborhood.
19:14Asma Khalid:I was like, what do you mean? I've never mentioned that word anywhere. I don't carry a microphone or run around and talk about Sharia. And so, yeah, it's sad.
19:23Abdi Nor Iftin:We started talking about this earlier, how much the American dream is connected with people's idea of economic opportunity, right? That I'll have a life and that my children will have a life that is better than mine, that there's this idea of social mobility. And a key part of the American dream, I think for many people, has been wrapped up in money and economic opportunity. In the early days when you were getting your first jobs in Maine, did you feel like you were living that economic American dream?
19:54Asma Khalid:No, because I don't own a house. Housing, you know, it's considered a crisis in the United States. It's one of the difficult things. It's a very messed up system, obviously, with who can own a house, who can buy a house, who can live this dream. But that doesn't make me upset because now my mother has a house. And she's living with my sister and they're living in Somalia.
20:22Abdi Nor Iftin:You sent her money all these years?
20:24Asma Khalid:Because of the money I sent.
20:30Asma Khalid:You know, when I say a house, it's a Somali house. No refrigerator, no 24-hour electricity. Some guy delivers water once every week. But they think that's actually joy. They're really happy. Obviously, owning a house in the United States is tough. It requires wealth. And most immigrants invest with their families. And that's what I have done, just make mom happier and make her live a happy life.
21:11Asma Khalid:When you hear the phrase made in China, what do you think? I'm Tristan Redman.
21:15Abdi Nor Iftin:And I'm Asma Khalid. and together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. And today on our show, we look at the origins and evolution of made in China, because it actually wasn't inevitable. What we're talking about is the world's largest communist nation is at the beating heart of the capitalist system.
21:35Asma Khalid:For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. What happened the first time the World Cup came to the US? International soccer was basically unknown to the average American sports fan. A tournament full of showbiz, star names and two missed penalties that became famous around the world. It was very, very unfortunate for both Baresi and for Baggio that they missed the penalties. That was an injustice, really. Join me, Lee James, on More Than The Score as we step back in time to USA 94. For the stories beyond the scorelines, More Than The Score from the BBC World Service.
22:13Asma Khalid:Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
22:43Abdi Nor Iftin:For more, listen to The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
22:52Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi, a few years after you arrived, Donald Trump first entered the White House. He won the presidency. And he directed quite a bit of ire towards Somali immigrants. He instituted a travel ban that put restrictions on people coming in from Somalia during his campaign.
23:10Asma Khalid:I think Islam hates us.
23:14Abdi Nor Iftin:He had a lot of negative comments directed towards Muslims writ large during that campaign cycle.
23:20Asma Khalid:There's something there that there's a tremendous hatred there.
23:24Abdi Nor Iftin:And spoke about them as a as a threat to American life, American society.
23:28Asma Khalid:And we have to be very vigilant. We have to be very careful. And we can't allow people coming into this country who have this hatred.
23:36Abdi Nor Iftin:What was that time like for you?
23:39Asma Khalid:Gosh, yeah. You know, not only did he say those things, but he also came to Maine and he made the speech. He has directly attacked the Somalis directly. I remember feeling the same scare trauma that I felt in Kenya and the Canadian president ordering Somalis to be deported. and how shaky and scary and completely devastated I was, sort of feeling like I never thought in America I would feel that way. Never. I thought I escaped when I left Kenya. I escaped that fear.
24:22Abdi Nor Iftin:Did you feel at that time that people treated you any differently as a Somali immigrant?
24:29Asma Khalid:There were a few events that I went to when someone said, are you happy with the American way of life or something like that? And I said, well, clarify, what are we talking about here? Like, are you happy to see church or do you want to see more mosques? Someone said that at one point. And I said, no, if you're really thinking I want church to go down or mosques built up, if you're thinking that way, no. But I love diversity. I want to see a church, a tumble, mosque, everything else.
24:59Abdi Nor Iftin:So people did begin to say things to you differently. Oh, yeah. You would say during that time period.
25:04Asma Khalid:Oh, yeah. I think it's a Trump narrative that makes people feel scared because Trump said something like they don't integrate. You know, I feel like people who listen to him immediately felt, oh, OK, so the Somalis are actually moving in to take over.
25:20Abdi Nor Iftin:So we're talking to you now at a moment in which Donald Trump is back in the White House for the second term. and one of the policy changes he has made around immigration is that he has paused the visa lottery program.
25:37Asma Khalid:Yeah, nobody's coming through the visa lottery, which is the same program I came into the U.S. So I am lucky that I'm here because if it was now, when I was going through my interview and, you know, everything else, I'm, you know, 100 % sure that I would be locked out right now. I feel really bad for all the other immigrants overseas who still dreamed of America and the American ideas the same way I did, who got completely locked out now because of the Trump administration's immigration process.
26:20Abdi Nor Iftin:How has your life felt different in the United States in this second term of the Trump administration?
26:28Asma Khalid:I lost my full-time job. I had this amazing job at a nonprofit that supports immigrants. And I personally helped Ukrainians, refugees from Ukraine when the war broke out. And I was working with the organization at the time. It's called Church World Service. in Afghanistan when the withdrawal happened and so a lot of people were stranded. I was enjoying doing that job quite a lot. And so what have I lost since Trump was elected? I lost my job. I lost my health insurance.
26:59Abdi Nor Iftin:Oh, wow. So you lost your job because this was a refugee resettlement agency? Yeah.
27:06Asma Khalid:So President Trump cut funding from the organization. The organization lost federal funding.
27:12Abdi Nor Iftin:Oh, wow. What exactly was your job? What did you do?
27:15Asma Khalid:I was a communication specialist. I trained clients on storytelling. It was quite an interesting and amazing job that I was doing.
27:25Abdi Nor Iftin:When did that happen, by the way? I should ask, when was that?
27:27Asma Khalid:I received the layoff email as early as February.
27:31Abdi Nor Iftin:So it's been a few months now. Yeah. How are you doing?
27:34Asma Khalid:Well, you know, fine, I guess. I miss my job. I miss my friends. But I speak. I do speaking engagements as well. I work with local small nonprofits as I train young folks to tell their stories, start writing, storytelling. So I stay busy. Luckily, I stay pretty busy.
27:55Abdi Nor Iftin:Losing his job is not the only significant thing that has changed for Abdi during President Trump's second term. Last December, the Somali community in Minnesota became headline news after a series of fraud allegations. Minnesota is reeling from a fraud scandal involving$1 billion siphoned from multiple federal programs during the COVID pandemic.
28:17Asma Khalid:Theft of federal funds and corruption by individuals, particularly within the Somali community. This has put those from that community in the spotlight.
28:28Abdi Nor Iftin:A number of people have now pled guilty in relation to the scandal, and it became a national political issue, in part because President Trump weighed in.
28:36Asma Khalid:I don't want them in our country. Their country is no good for a reason. Their country stinks.
28:42Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi had strong views on this story, so he decided to do several media interviews. And he was critical of the actions of some Somali Americans. Here he is on Fox News. It makes me think, why don't we look at ourselves, right, and say, OK, whether the president is right or wrong,
29:00Asma Khalid:It's that time that we have to think of welfare fraud, you know, Section 8 fraud, autism fraud, that my community is heavily involved. Nobody's talking about it.
29:13Abdi Nor Iftin:Abdi says he did these interviews because the fraud upset him and he wanted to hear someone in his community call it out as a problem. But that fraud story is not happening in isolation. It's happening in the context of a live, active political debate about what it means to be an American. And who gets to be an American? And so I wanted to know what Abdi specifically thought about President Trump's criticism of Somalis. So I pulled up a video of the president at a cabinet meeting in December and we listened to him together.
29:45Asma Khalid:For a reason, their country stinks and we don't want them in our country. I could say that about other countries, too. I could say it about other countries, too. We don't want them to help. We got to we have to rebuild our country. You know, our country's at a tipping point. We could go bad. We're at a tipping point. I don't know if people mind me saying that, but I'm saying that we could go one way or the other. And we're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country.
30:15Abdi Nor Iftin:When you hear that, do you still feel like the American dream is alive for someone like you?
30:23Asma Khalid:I think what I just heard is a betrayal to my American dream. been called garbage. You know, after all I've been through is clearly a betrayal to my American dream, the way I see America. But I'm also aware that not many Americans agree with him on that. Some problem, maybe many agree with him, but also many more doesn't agree with him on that. Do you feel welcome? Under Trump, no. At Trump's house, no. And Trump's leadership, no. But I feel welcome in some parts of America.
31:04Abdi Nor Iftin:I've asked you a lot of different ways, I guess, about the American dream, because it's a shorthand for the allure of the United States. Do you feel like the American dream is alive and well?
31:18Asma Khalid:I feel like the American dream is alive, but not well. Okay. Seriously, that's how I feel. I feel like it's alive because all of those people overseas who cannot come into the U.S. right now are all actually expecting that at some point Trump is going to get out of the way and we will have another leadership and that leadership will be open minded and friendly. Right. It is alive, but it's not well. It's not well because I'm worried that. That we might not recover from this. That we become more hateful. as a nation, that Trump is feeding a narrative that might sound normal because that's what he's trying to do.
32:03Asma Khalid:There's no other president that just says what he just said, right? Insulting an entire nation. A lot of Somali Americans have become Americans. A lot of Somalis were born in this country. And so insulting them, Americans born in this nation. Yeah. So it's alive, but it's not well.
32:20Abdi Nor Iftin:You have a brother, Hassan. You all were living together in Kenya. I understand he has since left Kenya and he's now living in Canada. Correct. I was told. One of our producers was telling me that. He's Canadian. Is he living the Canadian dream? Is he Canadian?
32:39Asma Khalid:He's Canadian. Now he's got...
32:40Abdi Nor Iftin:He's become a Canadian citizen.
32:41Asma Khalid:He's got a Canadian citizenship. So, yeah, he and I are joking brothers from the same country, from the same household, two different countries. now, two different nationalities.
32:52Abdi Nor Iftin:Not that far from Maine, I suppose.
32:53Asma Khalid:Can drive up. It's about nine hours. Yeah, I've driven up.
32:56Abdi Nor Iftin:It's a little further than I thought. Yeah, he's in Toronto.
32:59Asma Khalid:Canada is massive. Yeah, yeah, it's a dream come true for the half of our family. But our sister and mother are still stuck in Somalia and we're not giving up. And then in the near future, we're hoping to start a process to get them to Canada. I think I've given up on America, bringing them to America.
33:17Abdi Nor Iftin:So you think it's more realistic they could move to Canada?
33:20Asma Khalid:It's not a piece of cake. Obviously, Canada has a pretty tough immigration system as well. But now that my brother just became a citizen, he's definitely going to make it happen.
33:32Abdi Nor Iftin:What do you think, Abdi, about Canada and the dream it offers?
33:36Asma Khalid:Well, my brother says they have a better health care and that's worthy. I love Canada it's a beautiful country very very pretty but if I had a choice a second choice I was in Kenya and I had to choose between the two I would choose America
33:59Asma Khalid:I don't know why I mean I I guess it's my first love
34:11Abdi Nor Iftin:On that note, I just want to say thank you for joining us. I really appreciate you taking the time and just sharing your reflections and your story with us.
34:20Asma Khalid:Thank you so much for having me. It was an honor.
34:27Abdi Nor Iftin:That was Abdi Noor-Eftin joining us from Maine. This week, to mark the United States' big 250th anniversary, we here at The Global Story are looking at the surprising ways America has shaped the world. Tomorrow, the story of the man who shaped the CIA.
34:44Asma Khalid:Covert action is supposed to stay secret. We are still feeling the effects of this coup 70 years after the fact.
34:51Abdi Nor Iftin:And just a reminder that later this week, we're doing an episode based off of your listener questions about what's next for the U.S., its power and the world order. As always, you can email us at theglobalstory at bbc.com. We'll be joined by the BBC's international correspondent, Jeremy Bowen, to help answer your questions. Today's episode was produced by Viv Jones and Aaron Keller. It was edited by James Shield and mixed by Travis Evans. Our digital producer is Matt Pintus. Our senior news editor is Chyna Collins. And I'm Asma Khalid. Thanks as always for tuning in, and we'll talk to you again tomorrow.
35:31Abdi Nor Iftin:How has America shaped the world? I'm Asma Khalid, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. As the United States marks its 250-year anniversary, we've been exploring the surprising and often hidden ways the U.S. has shaped the modern world. And today on the show, we answer your questions about this moment and what to expect in the years to come. From the BBC, it's the United States at 250. Listen to the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
As the United States marks its 250th anniversary, The Global Story podcast is exploring the surprising and often hidden ways the US has shaped the modern world. One of the most powerful and enduring American ideas is that of the American Dream. In this episode, Asma Khalid hears the story of one extraordinary American Dream seeker. The BBC first spoke to Abdi Nor Iftin in 2014, when he was living in one of Kenya's toughest neighbourhoods after fleeing conflict in Somalia. When he won the US green card lottery his problems seemed to be solved – but it turned out to be the start of a whole new struggle. The Global Story tells in-depth stories from where the world and America meet. For more episodes, just search 'The Global Story' wherever you get your BBC Podcasts.
