In short
The Happy Pod episode covers four stories. Topic 1: Louise Butcher, “the topless runner,” discusses choosing a double mastectomy after lobular breast cancer, rejecting reconstruction, and embracing her scars as proof of survival.
Key claims
reconstruction felt like “too much,” her decision restored control, and topless running combats stigma; she compares scars to a shark attack survivor showing the injury proudly.
Notable examples
running a marathon six weeks after surgery; initial reactions 80% positive/20% negative on social media; messages from women worldwide.
Guests
Louise Butcher (cancer survivor and runner) interviewed by Karen Martin. Topic 2: Thomas Levine preserves nearly 100-year-old “voice letters” (over 5,000) recorded in booths, including WWII soldiers. Topic 3: Mary McLaren, 88, learns comedy and performs after age-50 training. Topic 4: Ororo Tanshi, Goldman Environmental Prize winner, protects endangered short-tailed round-leaf bats in Nigeria via wildfire prevention and community fire brigades; bats support forests and insect control.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMeet the Topless Runner
1:33 to 2:28
Introduction to Louise Butcher, a woman inspiring others with her story.
“Preserving voice notes recorded nearly 100 years ago.”
Embracing Scars and Running
2:28 to 4:23
Louise discusses her decision against reconstruction and her journey to self-acceptance.
“She is now known online as the topless runner and runs, as the name suggests, with her scars proudly on display.”
Scars as a Symbol of Survival
4:23 to 5:29
Louise uses the analogy of a shark attack to redefine her scars positively.
The Liberation of Running Topless
5:29 to 6:56
Louise shares her empowering experience of running a marathon topless.
“I'd run the marathon six weeks after my second surgery and I remember thinking, I've got to do something with the next marathon that's quite special.”
Changing Perceptions of Body Image
6:56 to 8:08
Louise reflects on how cancer reshaped her view of body image and self-worth.
“At the start, I would have said 80 % positive, 20 % negative.”
The Art of Voice Letters
8:08 to 12:23
Introduction to the historical significance of voice letters preserved by Professor Levine.
“And that's why I don't care about the judgment, because I just feel in awe of what it's done, not what it looks like.”
Age is Just a Number
12:23 to 14:00
Mary McLaren shares her journey of learning comedy at the age of 88.
“Here in the UK, an 88-year-old is proving that age is really just a number.”
The Joy of Performing Stand-Up Comedy
14:00 to 15:18
Discovering the experience and impact of performing stand-up comedy.
“what to say and how to say them so that you can hesitate and get a laugh in between.”
The Science of Stolen Food Tasting Better
16:11 to 18:21
Exploring a study on how social circumstances affect food perception.
“Whether we admit it or not, we've probably all helped ourselves to food from someone else's plate.”
Understanding the Role of Guilt in Enjoyment
18:21 to 19:57
How feelings of guilt enhance the enjoyment of experiences like eating.
“Every single sensory dimension moved independently.”
Show all 13 chapters
Conservation and Community Efforts in Nigeria
19:57 to 22:58
Recognizing a conservationist's work and its importance for bat protection.
“To Nigeria next, and a conservationist who's been recognised for her work to protect short-tailed round-leaf bats.”
The Healing Power of Choirs for Stroke Survivors
22:58 to 25:42
The benefits of singing in a choir for those recovering from strokes.
“There are very few things in this world that signal to you that the work that you're doing has global relevance than, you know, things like this.”
Personal Stories from Choir Members
25:42 to 27:52
Personal insights from stroke survivors about their experiences in a choir.
“I was in the marching band in high school and in college.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Global News Podcast Host:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:07Louise Butcher:This is the Happy Pod from the BBC World Service
1:16Louise Butcher:I'm Holly Gibbs and in this edition
1:19Global News Podcast Host:Even though I've lost my breasts the scars are there to remind me that I survived a disease that tried to kill me
1:27Louise Butcher:We meet the topless runner, showing the world her double mastectomy scars with pride. Also on this podcast.
1:47Louise Butcher:Preserving voice notes recorded nearly 100 years ago. Why a chip you take from someone else's plate really does taste better. and the woman who's been recognised for helping to protect endangered bats in Nigeria.
2:02Global News Podcast Host:Bats plant forests because they're always dispersing seeds. Bats will manage insect populations. Bats are really valuable ecological friends.
2:16Louise Butcher:We start with a woman who is trying to inspire others to embrace their bodies, no matter how different they might be. Louise Butcher had both of her breasts removed after having cancer. Although it was only in her left breast, Louise chose to have a double mastectomy. She is now known online as the topless runner and runs, as the name suggests, with her scars proudly on display. She's been speaking to The Happy Pod's Karen Martin and started with why she decided not to have breast reconstruction.
2:46Global News Podcast Host:at that time there's so many things going through your head that all I cared about was I wanted to get rid of the cancer and I think all these sort of like questions you're going to have reconstruction do you want this do you want that it's just too much to take on and I kind of thought I just want to get on with my life I want to recover quickly and I don't see the need to put something back which isn't mine when I first had the the left side off which had the cancer in I actually said can I have a double mastectomy and the surgeon said we don't take off a healthy breast and I kind of said well how do you know it's healthy when lobular breast cancer which is what I had doesn't show up well on scans I could look in the shower at the scar really easily but I couldn't look at the other breast because it felt like a killing machine it worried me it could be there it could come in that breast but it also wouldn't let me move on because I could see what I'd lost.
3:45Global News Podcast Host:And what was the process of coming to terms with your new body? It took around about six months and it was kind of like, which is what I tried to pass on to other women, evolving into a better version of yourself. So I'd never run marathons with boobs. So I became without boobs, a marathon runner. And it was kind of like becoming a stronger, better person. So I know
4:14Global News Podcast Host:constantly be going I remember when I had breasts this is what I was like but I can't look back at that person now because now I've become this stronger better person and I try and pass that on and encourage other women to do that because just because you lose a part of yourself doesn't mean you can't gain other things cancer took away and it does take away all your control everything you had planned this life that you thought you were going to have just goes like this and that's the element that I try to empower other women with as well is the control the fact that I'd had that off was my decision I'd advocated it which made me feel empowered let's talk about your relationship with your scars like how they make you feel when I looked at the stigma associated with not having reconstruction it was a negative narrative around it was like oh she's lost her breasts or poor woman the pity was there and I thought the analogy of the shark for me was you had a shark attack and you your leg had been bitten and you came out of it alive I would be really proud of that scar if I was bitten on the leg I'd be showing it off I'd be like look what I survived and that's kind of how I look at my scars because even though I've lost my breasts the scars are there to remind me that I survived a disease that tried to kill me so instead of the negative I put that narrative on it and that really helped change my mindset around them they've still created something beautiful because you're still alive and that's what I try and pass on from there you you took to running yeah the first time you ran without a top on talk me through the feeling before leaving the house even.
5:56Global News Podcast Host:I'd run the marathon six weeks after my second surgery and I remember thinking, I've got to do something with the next marathon that's quite special. And it had been about a week before and I'd thought about the stigma and how I felt and how I'd seen other women had felt. And I thought, what would be really amazing would be to show the stigma of the pity alongside something that's really strong and determined and the resilience of running the marathon. And that was how the mindset of I'll do it topless came about. And I remember that morning I woke up and you know when you know you've got a job to do and you're not thinking about it.
6:34Global News Podcast Host:You're just like, I'm going to do this and this is a job I've got to do. It wasn't really a choice. I woke up like that. There was no anxiety. I wasn't nervous. I was like, no, I've got to do it. And this is what's got to happen. And then I met two of my friends at the start and I took my top off and I just ran. and it was the most liberating, empowering feeling I think I've ever felt. It brought back the control and the choice of what I was doing with my body after cancer. And what was the reaction from people? At the start, I would have said 80 % positive, 20 % negative. A lot on social media is 20 % negative.
7:09Global News Podcast Host:But as I've gone on and on and on, the positivity just keeps rising. So I've had messages from all over the world, women in Japan. And there's a lady who ran a topless marathon in Australia, in America. And it's just empowering women in all sorts of ways, not just running, just about the confidence they've got in their body. How has this experience kind of reshaped your relationship with yourself in that way? When I was younger, it was all about how I looked, which I think in many women, that's usually how you feel when you're younger. You care about what people think about you. But when I went through cancer, it changed my mindset because my body became something bigger than how it looked.
7:55Global News Podcast Host:It was kind of like it healed. It tried to keep me alive. And I had a bigger respect for it than the superficial. And I think that's why I've got the confidence I have, because I don't look at it like that now. And that's why I don't care about the judgment, because I just feel in awe of what it's done, not what it looks like.
8:14Louise Butcher:Louise Butcher speaking to Karen Martin. Recording our voices is now pretty common. You might send a voice note to friends and family or to us here at the Happy Pod. But nearly 100 years ago, people recorded what were known as speaking letters and one man is now preserving them in a special digital archive. They offer fascinating insights into everyday life in the 1930s and 40s, as Branka Lesser-Dissar has been finding out.
8:43Global News Podcast Host:Hello, Mum and Dad. Imagine being able to talk to you from Jersey City.
8:49Louise Butcher:That's Evelyn in New Jersey, sending a message to her parents in Blackpool.
8:54Global News Podcast Host:I expect to be going out to Sue Hackes' place. Remember? The girl I told you about.
8:59Louise Butcher:And that's Doug in New York, telling his sister Mona about his plans for the weekend.
9:04Global News Podcast Host:We're going out canoeing. Spend the day out on the beach.
9:07Louise Butcher:Both Evelyn and Doug have passed away, but their voices, recorded close to a century ago, have been immortalised. They're part of a project by Thomas Levine, a professor at Princeton University who collects what are known as voice letters.
9:21Global News Podcast Host:These are small records that people recorded starting in the 20s and 30s in small booths, at home, in studios.
9:31Louise Butcher:Voice recording technology has been around since the mid-1800s, but it used to be rare and inaccessible. Gramophone discs help to make the process more mainstream.
9:40Global News Podcast Host:You would go in, put a quarter or some small amount of whatever currency into the machine, and then, astonishingly, with nobody else present, you would record and out would come a record.
9:55Louise Butcher:Thomas first came across audio letters when he found one at a flea market in New Jersey. He became fascinated by how people interacted with what was then a novel technology. Some got nervous and didn't know what to say.
10:08Global News Podcast Host:Oh, I've got more time to spend now. What can I say? I have about two seconds.
10:13Louise Butcher:Others marvelled at the technology, putting on a bit of a show. Hi y 'all.
10:18Global News Podcast Host:Wonderful day out here. Making records for the GIs.
10:22Louise Butcher:And there was a lot of singing.
10:23Global News Podcast Host:A father-time ship, so there'd be no doubt. Once there was a little girl who lived down Dury Lane. Her master was so kind of...
10:34Louise Butcher:Professor Levine now has an archive of over 5 ,000 audio letters from all over the world. A lot of the recordings are from American soldiers during the Second World War, who were given access, free of charge, to recording booths across the US.
10:47Global News Podcast Host:Hello, Mother. How are you? I'm just fine. Darmies treat me good, too. Food is well, but they don't give me enough oranges. Many of these letters are remarkable documents of, particularly during wartime, of an imagined peacetime quotidian life. When I get home on my furlough, I want you to have a lot of oranges there.
11:09Louise Butcher:Thomas explains that for families whose sons or husbands were away for long periods, the opportunity to hear their voices would have been incredibly special.
11:17Global News Podcast Host:These records, unlike the records that we buy in stores, are not multiples. They are unique. So that if you had a recording that you love to hear of your son, particularly if the recording arrived at home, but your child did not, then these things could often be played to the point of almost acoustic oblivion.
11:40Louise Butcher:Nowadays, we're used to recording ourselves. At the click of a button, we can send voice notes to our loved ones. Thomas hopes his collection can remind us not to take that for granted and to maintain our sense of wonder about the technology we have available.
11:54Global News Podcast Host:An archive of past messages that had to travel sometimes arduously through a postal route and sometimes arrived, sometimes didn't, reminds us that what we take for granted today has a history that helps us understand just how magical some of the dimensions of our current technological convenient landscape have.
12:20Louise Butcher:Branka Lesser-Dissar reporting. Here in the UK, an 88-year-old is proving that age is really just a number. She's learning how to be a comedian. Mary McLaren is part of a group of people over the age of 50 taking part in lessons, which ended with them taking to the stage for live shows. The Happy Pod's Helena Burke caught up with Mary.
12:43Global News Podcast Host:My daughter nominated me. I've always enjoyed jokes and comedy and even at my late age in life, I quite like being happy and cheery. I don't like complaining and moaning. Life's short. She put me in for this and we had to do a wee sort of four-week training type of thing and then we were up in front of an audience to tell a story about comedy.
Read the full transcript
13:11Global News Podcast Host:My birthday, in she comes with vouchers. Oh, you beauty. Vouchers. I love vouchers. Love, love, love. Running a book, spending a fortune. Hard money. Great. So I opened the vouchers, and they're for assisted buying. I said, well, they've even got somebody to show me how to spend my money now. So I went along, and I looked at them again, and I went, there's no assisted buying. There's assisted dying.
13:45Louise Butcher:And how was that for you? What kind of things did you learn?
13:48Global News Podcast Host:Well, we learned how to sort of present a story. And the girl, she was an actual comedian herself. And she took us for four weeks and trained us and told us different things, what to say and how to say them so that you can hesitate and get a laugh in between. You know, that sort of thing was very, very interesting.
14:09Louise Butcher:And at the end of it all, you performed at the social hub in Glasgow. What was that like?
14:13Global News Podcast Host:Yes, that was lovely. That was a lovely night, obviously very nervous to begin with. But once I get going with my jokes and my stories, I'm quite vocal in that way.
14:24Louise Butcher:And did your jokes go down well? Did you get a lot of laughs from the audience?
14:27Global News Podcast Host:Yes, and we really did get quite a lot of laughs at the end of the night, which made a day, you know, and it was really good.
14:34Louise Butcher:What do you hope that listeners of The Happy Pod take away from your story and your experience?
14:38Global News Podcast Host:I hope they take away, well, that was enjoyable and it makes life happier happier and a lot more pleasant than constantly complaining and just deal with your lot and get on with your life.
14:50Louise Butcher:And yeah I guess for an older person listening who thinks like oh I'm too old to pick up a new hobby or a new skill what would you say to them?
14:58Global News Podcast Host:I would say well you're never too old age is a number and I've always said all my life it's attitude to life and it's how you present it. I've lost a son nearly he was only 47 but I'll look at that and say well he's not coming back, make the best of your life and think in all the happy times and do not complain.
15:18Louise Butcher:Mary McLaren speaking to Helena Burke.
15:26Louise Butcher:Coming up on The Happy Pod, the choir helping people get their voices back after a stroke or brain injury.
15:33Global News Podcast Host:Don't stop the music. Don't stop the music. Just don't stop it, ever.
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16:17Louise Butcher:You're listening to The Happy Pod. Whether we admit it or not, we've probably all helped ourselves to food from someone else's plate. And now a new study confirms that we actually prefer the taste of food that isn't ours. My colleague James Kumar Asami spoke to the author of the study, Valentin Skryabin, a psychiatrist based in Moscow.
16:38Global News Podcast Host:There is a saying that exists in almost every culture on earth, in Italian, Japanese, Spanish, Russian, etc., that stolen food tastes better. Everyone knows it, everyone's experienced it. Sneaking a chip off someone else's plate, sneaking a biscuit you weren't supposed to have, and it always seems to taste just a little bit better than it should. But nobody had ever actually measured whether that's real or just a charming story we tell ourselves. So that's what we did. We took identical French fries and we gave them to people under different circumstances. And we measured whether the circumstances changed how the food actually tasted.
17:17Global News Podcast Host:And they did. And when you say different circumstances, you mean them taking it from someone else's plate? We had four situations. First, your own portion. Second, someone offers you their fries as a gift. Third, you sneak a fry from the plate of someone sitting next to you, but they seem friendly and approachable, so their stakes feel low. And fourth, and this is the interesting one, you take a fry from someone who is stern, unapproachable, well, someone you really wouldn't want to catch you. Same fry, same taste, completely different experience of eating it, as it turned out. So the ones that were taken from the person who it was more daring to take it from tasted better, did they?
18:04Global News Podcast Host:Yes, really. On a nine-point scale, the legitimately eaten fries scored about six for pleasantness. The stolen ones taken from the strict confederate scored nearly eight and a half. That's a 39 % increase in taste of the same chip. But here's what really surprised us. It wasn't just overall enjoyment. Every single sensory dimension moved independently. The stolen fries tasted saltier, even though the salt content was identical. They tasted crispier, even though they came from the same batch, and more intense overall. The brain wasn't just saying, I enjoy that more. It was actually recalibrating specific sensory channels.
18:45Global News Podcast Host:When you say stern confederates, just explain what you mean by that. It was a professional actor, one trained to be warm, open and smiley, and the other to be stern, strict, closed off. Participants didn't know that the persons were actors. They thought that they are stealing the food indeed. And was there a correlation between how guilty they felt and how tasty the fries were? At the trial level, guilt and enjoyment were positively correlated. Higher guilt was associated with greater pleasure. What we suggest is that guilt isn't driving the pleasure directly. Rather, both guilt and enjoyment are responses to the same underlying thing, the perceived social risk or the act.
19:27Global News Podcast Host:So the strict confederate condition produced more of everything, more anxiety, more guilt, more excitement and more enjoyment. This is something, as you say, that exists as a concept, as a saying in many languages. What conclusions do you draw from your research? The fighting is the brain doesn't taste food in isolation. It tastes the whole situation. Social risk, it turns out, is a remarkably powerful seasoning.
19:56Louise Butcher:Valentin Scriabin. To Nigeria next, and a conservationist who's been recognised for her work to protect short-tailed round-leaf bats. Iroro Tanshi worked with locals to set up community fire brigades after realising that wildfires were a huge threat to the endangered animal. She also tackled fear among locals that bats are associated with witchcraft. She's been awarded a prestigious environmental prize for her efforts. Ororo spoke to my colleague Nkechi Obona.
20:26Global News Podcast Host:Essentially, people just wanted to deal with the problem of wildfires on their farms as well. But we really just say, you know, bats are really great at all these ecosystem services. Bats plant forests because you're always dispersing seeds. They're always moving far away from the source of the fruits that they're eating. And so by moving away from that tree, they're planting that tree as much as possible across the forest. Same thing with insects. The bats will manage insect populations just naturally. Bats are really valuable ecological friends. You would have a reduction in populations of mosquitoes, for example, because bats eat insects.
21:09Global News Podcast Host:You have a reduction in pests on farms because bats are insects that are agricultural pests. So essentially, you come to see that they play so many critical roles, it's almost impossible to ignore them. Bats are also vectors of different diseases. Now, when you say they play a huge role in the biodiversity and the ecosystem and all of that, I'm worried about the interaction with humans. That's a really good way to phrase that. And the problem of bats potentially carrying diseases that are harmful to humans, it's not a bat problem, it's a human problem. Bats are on their own. If you don't disturb them, if you don't come in close contact with them, they're living their best lives.
21:56Global News Podcast Host:Where bats potentially might spill some of their viruses might be, you know, if they're disturbed at their roosting site, so where they sleep. So in caves, for example. And your team has identified at least 10 additional bat species. Why is that discovery significant for conservation efforts in Nigeria and beyond? In the past, it used to be more about exploration. Now we're in a mad rush to see what species we have because we're losing them before we even get the chance to describe them and know them in science. We're trying to understand the species that occur on this planet and where they occur.
22:35Global News Podcast Host:So it's a very important detail to know whether BAT A, BAT B, C and D occur only in Nigeria or only in Kenya or only in South Africa. You've now received global recognition with the Goldman Environmental Prize. What does this award mean to you personally and how do you hope it will help shape the future of this important work? Personally, it's an incredible honour. There are very few things in this world that signal to you that the work that you're doing has global relevance than, you know, things like this. The first Nigerian to win this award was Kensar Wewa, you know, that's freedom fighter for oil and the environment in Nigeria.
23:18Global News Podcast Host:That was a big thing and it made a big shift. And so in our case, we're hoping that this will make a big shift for bats in Nigeria and in Africa, but also for wildfire management. So essentially, this recognition means in addition to the work that we get in Nigeria, we get to do in Nigeria, we can now scale up this work across the globe.
23:39Louise Butcher:Ororo Tanshi. We end with a weekly choir that's making a difference to stroke and brain injury survivors. It's run at the MedStar National Rehabilitation Hospital in Washington, D.C. And the Happy Pod's Riley Farrell went along to meet them. It's Thursday afternoon in one of Washington, D.C.'s busiest hospitals. And right now, the hallways are filled with singing.
24:11Louise Butcher:Leading the group is Dana Griff, a board-certified music therapist at the hospital. Singing has really great benefits, especially for stroke and brain injury survivors. After a stroke, some people might have difficulty with word finding, where they might know what they want to say, but it might not come out necessarily the right way. Some people have difficulty with cognitive fatigue, respiratory endurance. So singing is actually something that can impact all of that. Singing in a choir has shown to increase people's confidence. And then being in a choir that particularly is a focus for stroke and brain injury survivors, They're amongst peers who have been through the same things.
24:54Louise Butcher:This is part of the hospital's music wellness program, where therapeutic music activities are tailored person by person with goals like speech, language, cognitive function, and movement. There it is. Okay. Sorry.
25:09Global News Podcast Host:My name is Tiffany B. King, B for Victoria. Before my stroke, I had a lovely singing voice. after the stroke, not so much, but I still enjoy the camaraderie and just being with a group of people who, like me, have some physical limitations or setbacks, but we've all come together to lift our voices, to sing, to come together in fellowship, and just enjoy each other. Hello, my name is Susan Robinson. I love music. Oh no, I grew up playing the saxophone. I was in the marching band in high school and in college. So I'm a saxophone player, really, by nature.
25:56Louise Butcher:I really like R &B. That just fits well with my personality. You all know this song, right? Does everybody know this song? There's research behind music-based rehab. I am trained in what's called neurologic music therapy. So it is a separate clinical system of music therapy that focuses on the neuroscientific approach. And it's stemmed from years of research. But we know that music is activated in all different areas of the brain. So it's easier to sing instead of speak sometimes after a stroke because of the language center that was affected during a stroke. So we have to reroute to a different area.
26:36Louise Butcher:Because singing and music is activated all over the brain, we can use that to our advantage to reroute the language to a different area of the brain.
26:47Global News Podcast Host:They inspire me to continue to improve, to try and, you know, regain what I lost from my stroke. And also gain new things, you know. You lose one thing, you regain and learn to expand yourself in other ways. I've gained a new family.
27:08Louise Butcher:What would you say to someone who's recovering after a stroke or brain injury? Or if they have a loved one who's recovering?
27:16Global News Podcast Host:I want them to know that it's okay for them to try to sing, listen to music and sing along. Try to remember what that person's favourite song is and then play that music and sing along with that person. That person may not be able to vocalise or verbalise, but they'll hear it and they'll recognise it. Don't stop the music. Don't stop the music. Just don't stop it, ever.
27:41Louise Butcher:Stroke survivor and choir member Susan Robinson, ending that report by Riley Farrell.
27:51Louise Butcher:and that's all from the happy pod for now we'd love to hear from you as ever the address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk this edition was produced by rachel bolkeley the editor is karen martin i'm holly gibbs until next time goodbye
From the publisher
We meet a woman who started running marathons topless after having both her breasts removed because of cancer. Louise Butcher tells us she wanted to display her mastectomy scars with pride. She says she wants to empower other women and show that surviving the disease is about power not pity.
Also: Preserving voice notes from almost a hundred years ago. The so called 'speaking letters' were recorded on small discs and sent through the post.
Do chips from someone else's plate really taste better? Scientists put the common belief to the test.
A project to save bats in Nigeria, where they're often associated with witchcraft.
Plus: the comedian making her debut in her eighties; and the choir helping people get their voices back after a stroke or brain injury.
Our weekly collection of inspiring, uplifting and happy news from around the world.
Presenter: Holly Gibbs. Music composed by Iona Hampson.
(Photo: Topless marathon runner Louise Butcher. Credit: @louisebutcher39)
