US and Iran travel to Pakistan for peace talks

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1:08This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson and in the early hours of Saturday the 25th of April, these are our main stories. US envoys will travel to Pakistan for talks aimed at ending the war with Iran. Tehran's foreign minister is already there. A leaked email suggests Washington is considering punishing allies for not supporting its war in Iran. Also in this podcast. I believe in a two-state solution. I believe that just as the Jewish people have a right to self-determination and statehood, so do the Palestinian people have a right to self-determination and statehood.

1:47Our British Israeli academic describes the moment he was confronted by Israeli police for wearing a Jewish kippur embroidered with a Palestinian flag and survivors of Jeffrey Epstein are calling on King Charles to meet with them during his upcoming visit to the US.

2:07We begin with the latest peace talks between the US and Iran set to take place in Pakistan. US envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are due to fly to Islamabad for negotiations. An Iranian delegation led by the foreign minister Abbas Zaragchi arrived in the Pakistani capital on Friday. It follows President Trump's decision earlier this week to extend the current ceasefire indefinitely at the request of Pakistan so Tehran could come up with what was described as a unified proposal on issues such as the Strait of Hormuz and Tehran's nuclear program. The White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt, suggested progress had already been made.

2:48The Iranians want to talk. They want to talk in person. And so the president is, as I've said many, many times to all of you, always willing to give diplomacy a chance. So Steve and Jared will be heading to Pakistan tomorrow to hear the Iranians out. We hope progress will be made and we hope that positive developments will come from this meeting. And we will see. And the president, the vice president, the secretary of state will be waiting here in the United States for updates. And the vice president, I understand, is on standby and will be willing to dispatch to Pakistan if we feel it's a necessary use of his time.

3:20On a separate issue, reports suggest the US is considering punishing NATO allies it believes have failed to support its war on Iran. Spain and Britain are two nations thought to be on the blacklist. Our North America correspondent is David Willis. I firstly asked him about whether progress was likely in Islamabad. Maybe a little, maybe none at all really, Alex, given that Iran is saying that although its foreign minister, Abbas Aranchi, has arrived in Pakistan, in the capital, Islamabad, he has no plans to meet with US negotiators. And they say that he's there for bilateral talks with Pakistan and will then be travelling to Oman and Russia for bilateral talks there as well.

4:05It's always possible, of course, that Mr Aranchi could then circle back to Pakistan to meet Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner. But that doesn't appear to be on his itinerary. The White House, for its part, is striking a more upbeat tone, however. The Press Secretary Caroline Levitt told reporters that the last few days had seen what she called some progress towards negotiations. But I think it's significant, Alex, that the U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance, who led that first round of talks with Iran, currently has no plans to travel to Pakistan, although the White House said that he's on standby should there be what it called any major developments.

4:46Yes, because a lot of the major sticking points remain, not least the continued blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. Is Washington under any kind of pressure to revise its position? It is, I would say so. There are some indeed who would say that President Trump has painted himself into a corner here since the US and Israel attacked Iran at the end of February. The Iranian regime hasn't collapsed, as some predicted it would. There's been little sign of a popular uprising in Iran. And militarily, the country has proven remarkably resilient, added to which Iran's blockade of ships entering and leaving the Strait of Hormuz is driving up global oil prices.

5:28and the US blockade of Iranian ports that was intended to bring Iran to the negotiating table doesn't appear to have succeeded. So the US and the world is arguably in a worse position than it was before this war was launched. And the priority is for Donald Trump getting the Strait of Hormones open once again before the two sides can hammer out some of the key issues, chief among them the future of Iran's nuclear enrichment program. Yeah, and this leaked memo about US threats to NATO allies, what has Washington been saying? Yeah, this relates to an internal report that was leaked to the media here, which suggests that the US could review its position on Britain's claim to the Falkland Islands in retaliation for the UK as the US sees it failing to support the war on Iran.

6:18That same leaked report also suggests that Spain, whose government has been fiercely critical of the conflict with Iran, could be kicked out of NATO. It was clearly meant to be leaked, this report. Downing Street has said the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands is not in question. But all of this puts a further strain, of course, on UK-US relations, only days before King Charles arrives here for a state visit to commemorate the 250th anniversary of American independence, Alex. David Willis. So if there was peace between the United States and Iran, what would that look like? And what about the lasting effects of the Trump administration's aggressive rhetoric towards its NATO allies?

7:04I've been getting the thoughts of our World Affairs editor, John Simpson. First, the possible peace deal. I think we know the broad outlines of it. One element will be lifting the sanctions on Iran, or some of them, And on the Iranian side, opening the Strait of Hormuz is an obvious one. And so is some kind of willingness to talk about, to re-enter negotiations about the future of Iran's nuclear industry and where it takes us. And I think, frankly, Iran will be lucky to get a sizable number of controls over its economy and its exports and so on lifted. I think he can't hope for too much. And I think President Trump would be extremely lucky if he gets anything like as good an agreement as President Barack Obama got in 2015-2016 with Iran over the nuclear issue.

8:00But the way you're talking, the Iranian regime survives. What's the future for the Iranian people? Is it more of the same? At the moment, I think that's all we can say. And of course, one of the sort of side issues in Iran has been the strengthening of the revolutionary guards and their line, their view. It was already strengthening. But the destruction of the old guard of the supreme leader Ali Khamenei, that now removes somebody who was actually less aggressive and assertive than the IRGC want to be. So if you've got that change of government to that extent, the extra powers that the revolutionary guards have got, it doesn't bode very well for a peaceable future for the people of Iran.

8:51You've been reporting on world events for the BBC for a long time now. How does this crisis rank up there with the ones that you've seen over the years? Well, you mustn't forget that I did a lot of coverage of what were in some ways the most disturbing period of the Cold War in the 1970s and 80s, when really there were moments when somebody actually had the choice of pressing the button to launch an all-out nuclear war or not doing it. This isn't anywhere near up there. What this is, is much more disturbing for kind of traditionally minded people, perhaps like myself. We've got used over the decades, ever since I was a kid, ever since I was born to the notion that the West is a big force, that it's a moral force, that its leadership was the United States.

9:50and the United States looked after the membership and the membership backed the United States fully. That now, I think, has gone. Of course, a new president will come in in 2028 and he'll be, or she, but it always seems to be males, doesn't it, will no doubt reverse everything that Donald Trump's done, including strengthening NATO, better relationships. But no NATO government, no sensible government in Europe and Canada will ever forget what Donald Trump's done. And they will always have at the back of their minds the possibility that another president might do that or even worse. So we've come to the parting of the ways.

10:32It won't be an extreme parting, but we all know in NATO that the relationship isn't what it was and nobody will, I think, trust the United States in the way that we trusted them implicitly for, what, 60, 70 years. John Simpson. In the Gaza Strip, rotting bodies underneath more than 61 million tonnes of rubble have created a new crisis. There's been a surge in rats, rodents and other pests, compounding the misery of hundreds of thousands of displaced people who've endured more than two years of war. The newsroom's Ira Khan reports. Around three quarters of Gaza's 2.2 million population are currently living in makeshift accommodation.

11:17Entire families are cramped into thin tents made of old blankets and fabric scraps. They use open fires to cook food and holes stuck in the ground as makeshift bathrooms. Tents wedged among rubbish, open sewage and rubble have created fertile breeding grounds for rodents and insects, leading to a steady increase in rat bites, especially amongst children and the elderly. Many residents say they find rat droppings in their food and mice eat their clothes, destroying the few belongings they have left. The World Health Organization has said that more than 17 ,000 cases of rodent-linked infections have been reported this year.

11:51Here's what one resident has to go through. I've suffered greatly from weasels and mice. My children have been bitten. One of my sons was even bitten on the nose. I'm unable to sleep throughout the night because I must constantly watch over the children. The weasels have eaten through my tent. Added to this, 80 % of shelters are reporting skin infections such as scabies, lice and bedbugs. These can cause fever, infections and rashes. In the Gaza Strip, where hospitals have been destroyed and access to medicine is limited, the consequences can be severe. We're living in tents and schools flooded with sewage, and you never know what you might find.

12:31My son is suffering from a rash covering his body. I've taken him to doctors and hospitals, but they're not helping with anything. When President Trump announced the Israel-Gaza ceasefire in October 2025, his peace plan pledged the immediate resumption of full aid to Gaza, with the rebuilding of its central infrastructure including water, sewage and electricity. A new report released this week by the European Union and United Nations stated that more than$71 billion will be needed over the next 10 years for recovery and reconstruction in Gaza. But there's no idea yet of who'll pay for it. Ira Khan.

13:08Millions of men in Israel put on a kippur, the Jewish religious head covering every day. They do so in the belief that living in the Jewish state means they won't be harassed for wearing one, which could happen in any other country. But this wasn't the case for Alex Sinclair, a British-Israeli academic at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, who was detained by the police for wearing a kippur, embroidered with the flags of both Israel and Palestine. He said that he had his kippah confiscated, and when he got it back, it only had Israel's flag. My colleague James Kumrasami spoke to Mr Sinclair. I live in Israel, I'm an Israeli, I call myself a Zionist, an Israeli who's trying to make Israel better, who believes in Israel's right to exist along with the right of the Palestinians to exist and to have a state.

13:55I live in a small town in the middle of Israel called Modi Inn, and I have a kippah, a yarmulke, a Jewish cap, a Jewish ritual hat that I wear the whole time as a religious Jew, as somebody who is an observant Jew. But because I am a left-leaning Jew, I believe in a left-leaning Israeli, I believe in a two-state solution. I believe that just as the Jewish people have a right to self-determination and statehood, so do the Palestinian people have a right to self-determination and statehood. And so because of that, for many, many years, I've worn a kippah, a yarmulke with both the Israeli flag and the Palestinian flag on it.

14:28I have them both woven into it. Yeah, so that's the background. Just tell us then what actually happened on Monday. I was sitting in a cafe in my town, a cafe where I often sit. I call it my second office. And somebody came up to me and started shouting at me that my kippah, my yarmulke is against the law. It's not against the law in Israel to have a Palestinian flag. There are attempts by the Minister of Security, of Internal Security, Itamar Ben-Gvir, who's a cabinet minister who I don't find particularly pleasant or whose politics don't really represent mine at all. There have been attempts by him to ban that flag, but it isn't against the law.

15:03Anyway, this guy called the police and the police, who unfortunately have become more and more infused by the politics of Ben Gvir, took me to the police station, put me in a cell and to cut a long story short, they let me go after 20 minutes or so. But they cut the Palestinian flag out of the Kupar. The only way they would let me go is to cut that flag out. Just tell us about what happened at the station, because we turned to the police to get their side of this. and their statement, they say that the individual, you, was brought to the police station but was neither interrogated nor arrested.

15:36They said that you were brought there and following clarification, these are the words of the police, the individual was subsequently released. Is that how you would view your experience? Sitting on a cell on your own, not being allowed to speak to your wife or to a lawyer and not knowing for how long you're going to sit in that cell, it may be technically correct to say that I was not arrested or interrogated and it was just a clarification process. But it doesn't feel much like a clarification process when you're in that. So it felt to me like I was in a situation where I didn't know what the end result was going to be.

16:07I didn't know how long I was going to be there. And like I said, it's somebody who is a Zionist, who believes in Israel's right to exist, who loves Israel and certainly loves parts of Israel, although they're a part that drive me absolutely crazy and frustrate me and infuriate me, like this kind of thing. But to be a citizen of a country and feel that the police are seeing you as a problem, that's not a very nice feeling. So what now? Will you wear another kippah with a Palestinian flag? Yeah, I mean, I have to get a new one made. It's not a common item, so I have to go back to the shop. As far as the specifics of what happened to you in the police station, is it right that you filed a complaint, have you?

16:40I filed a complaint in the official police investigation department for internal investigations. I've received the kind of official, you know, you get an SMS to your phone that the file has been opened. I've not received any official response to the file yet, to the petition yet. But, you know, watch this face. I'm hopeful that common sense might prevail. I want them to pay for a new Kupafmi, and I want a letter from the police saying that I'm allowed to walk around with it without further harassment in the future, and that others as well may be. Alex Sinclair from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

17:15Still to come in this podcast. A hairdryer applied to the censor being, according to the accusers, the most obvious weapon of choice. Did this everyday household item play an important role in suspicious bets placed on the weather in France?

18:01We'll be right back. Casino. America's social casino. Download the Moto Casino app today. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Jewel Osco. You don't want to miss the annual beauty event for big savings on all your favorite beauty products. Now through April 28th, spend$25 on participating products and save$5. Shop in store or online for items like Billy Women's Razors, Billy Body Buffer or Body Wash, Native Hand Soap, Neutrogena Makeup Remover Towelettes, and Q-Tips. and save$5 when you spend$25. Offer ends April 28th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit Jewelosco.com for more details. Mecham Auctions, the world's largest collector car auction company, returns to Indianapolis for Dana Mecham's 39th original spring classic May 8th to the 16th at the Indiana State Fairgrounds.

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19:45This is the Global News Podcast. When King Charles visits the United States next week, starting on Monday, he will not be meeting the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, despite calls by some US lawmakers and survivors themselves. The family of one of the most prominent accusers of Epstein and former Prince Andrew, Virginia Giffray, has asked people to gather in Washington DC on Sunday ahead of the king's visit to pay tribute to her on the first anniversary of her death. The BBC's Neda Torfik has been speaking to one of Epstein's survivors, Teresa Helm, who told her that she really hopes the king changes his mind.

20:25I do feel like it potentially is a missed opportunity. Teresa Helm is one of the Epstein survivors who, along with some lawmakers, is disappointed King Charles won't be meeting them during his state visit to the United States. Many have even written him letters urging a private meeting. Teresa believes it would be a grand humanitarian gesture. It would really support and demonstrate this gesture of human dignity that we are seen and acknowledged and respected and worthwhile, worth the king's time. And can I just ask what you would want to tell the king? First and foremost, thank you for the steps that he has taken.

21:12And then I would also ask him not to ignore any of the claims that have been made against his own brother. For Buckingham Palace, there are serious concerns that even a symbolic meeting could jeopardize the legal process underway following the arrest of the king's brother, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, on suspicion of misconduct in public office. But some lawmakers have rejected that. Representative Ro Khanna, co-author of the Epstein Files Transparency Act, told the BBC News Channel that a private meeting wouldn't compromise the king's legal standing. He doesn't have to discuss the specifics of his brother's case, but he would show that the modern monarchy actually listens to the people who've been discarded and abandoned.

22:00The former Prince Andrew has denied any wrongdoing or knowledge of Epstein's crimes. King Charles has said that the authorities have his full support and cooperation and that the law must take its course. Teresa says she doesn't know if the legal concerns are a legitimate factor stopping a meeting. Could it be sort of a deflection? Yes, it could be. And would that be further disappointing? Of course it would be. I think that there's been some of that throughout this entire process, this kind of deflection of, well, we can't do this because of that. And sometimes I just don't think that that's really the full truth.

22:41Some Epstein survivors in the family of Virginia Giffray, one of Epstein and the former Prince Andrew's most vocal accusers, will be in D.C. before and during the state visit, sharing their perspective from the sidelines as the ceremonial engagements between king and president take center stage. Edith Torfik with that report. Officials in Syria say the main suspect in one of the most notorious massacres of the country's civil war has been arrested. Amjad Youssef was wanted over the mass killing of civilians in 2013 in the Tadamon district of Damascus. Human rights groups say uniformed Syrian army officials and members of a militia loyal to the then president Bashar al-Assad killed at least 41 people in just one day.

23:29This report from our senior international correspondent, Aula Guerin, contains details which you may find distressing.

23:40The sound of celebrations rising up from the streets of Damascus as news broke of the arrest of Amjad Youssef, one of Syria's most wanted men. The full horror of what happened in Tadamon in 2013 was revealed in footage leaked by a whistleblower almost a decade later. A series of videos showed Syrian army officials and members of a pro-Assad militia leading bound and blindfolded civilians to a pit and shooting them dead. The killers were laughing and smoking as they pulled the trigger. Then they set the bodies alight. Today, at the site of the massacre, roses were scattered on the ground amid calls for Youssef to be hanged in a public square.

24:32Syria's Islamist government will be hoping this high-profile arrest proves it is delivering on promises to bring a measure of justice for the dead. Some have their doubts and point to other regime officials who have done deals with the new authorities and remain free. Orla Gerran. A film about the life of the dead pop star Michael Jackson has just been released. It's had mixed reviews and there's controversy about what it doesn't show. So while nostalgic fans can enjoy the music, others are unhappy that it depicts a sanitised version of the singer's life and career. The film controversially does not address the sexual abuse allegations that dogged Michael Jackson's later life.

25:19Critics have described it as a whitewash and soulless cash grab that ignores the elephant in the room. Emma Jones from BBC Talking Movies gave her review to James Reynolds. This is the story of Michael Jackson up until 1988, really. So it starts off in his childhood with how they got to success with the Jackson 5 and then the making of his two first solo albums, particularly thriller, of course. And Michael is played by his own nephew, that's Jafar Jackson. Great performance, I have to say, by him. Really the story of how he becomes independent from his father, the patriarch of the family, Joseph Jackson, played with very convincing menace, I suppose, by Coleman Domingo.

26:04They were originally intending to deal with some of the abuse allegations, but for legal reasons those scenes could not appear in the final movie. So that led to a year of delays with the release of this biopic while they were readjusting it. So it finishes in 1988, well before the first allegations against Michael Jackson surfaced. But I wonder what audiences might make of the fact that large parts of his life are simply not covered. I have to say none of the allegations against Michael Jackson have ever dissuaded his fans from supporting him. If you think about the fact that MJ the Musical on Broadway in the West End has made a staggering sum of money, 300 million.