From Facebook's Early Days to a Solo $10M Pre-Seed Fund | with Helen Min, Articulate Capital

0:00Helen Min: Hi Helen, thank you very much for joining me. Hi, thanks for having me. Let's just do a little bit of background on you and Articulate, which you launched I think in May this year. That's right. What's your background? What point in your career did you think VC is for me? Was there an experience you went through or a turning point? This is my 20th year in San Francisco. I think tech was not something that I moved here even for. I worked in advertising. I moved here from Chicago. and my accounts were tech accounts because that's what was in the Bay Area. And then in 2008, I got recruited by Facebook.

0:37And so they were building out, you know, the product marketing team to develop like brand advertisements. And that was my background. So I got to be an early team member there. And so that was my first foray into tech. And so here I am, you know, many years later. But it was quite accidental. And I think to your question of, you know, was it my intention to go be an investor one day? No. But I did start angel investing many years later when I was at Plaid. So I ran marketing communications at Plaid from 2017 to 19. And that was a really fun run for Plaid. It was, I think, the, you know, sort of the years that they got on the map and got to position themselves as infrastructure for fintech or, you know, the plumbing for a very fast moving, fast growing category.

1:28And 2017 was kind of the year that Bitcoin, Coinbase, Robinhood started to become household names. So to attach yourself to, you know, being like the infrastructure for those companies was a good position to be. I think, you know, our goal was, can we position Plaid to be the AWS of fintech? And as a result, a lot of founders who were either building API companies or fintech companies would just start inbounding and say, hey, we'd love to have you advise or have you involved in some way. And, you know, when you're an operator, you're like very locked in and you're not like thinking about deal flow is basically what I'm saying.

2:08And so, you know, I'd meet a team or it'd be a referral or maybe it was somebody I used to work with that was really smart. I just started writing small checks. And so that's kind of how I started building a track record, you know, without an intention to one day be running a fund or doing this full time. But that's kind of when I started to invest. And some of those companies, you know, turned out to be some winners. So that's kind of how I got into it.

2:30Helen Min: I think it's a real strength of San Francisco and hard to reproduce elsewhere that there is such a culture of angel investing. And that is like a very natural on-ramp to venture capital. Particularly, obviously, it solves the problem of track record, which a lot of new managers have. If you have some years of angel investing, you can show LPs that. But I'm curious, how do you think LPs generally view angel track records? like is there like one for one equivalence with performance when they're trying to understand how you'll function as a as a vc how do you think they look at that i think that you're absolutely right it's very unique even people who are early in career you know here here and in zilton valley who don't have a ton of liquidity right and you know they're not making a ton of money um they're angel investing really early and these are really small checks and so absolutely right it's pretty unique to this ecosystem and now the other thing you know slightly tangential but the other thing i think that's pretty unique to this ecosystem is when founders have exits they immediately put it right back into the ecosystem right so that's that's pretty unique to this asset class and pretty special in my opinion um but angel track records are sort of like you know it's really a case-by-case basis so i think people are very black and white on like whether it does count or it doesn't.

3:54If you have a banger in there and you were literally in the pre-seed of Anthropic, that's probably something pretty meaningful for your angel track record, right? But generally speaking, I think I had 30 companies as an angel investor before I started the fund. And I was told many times like, oh, we don't really view that as track record. And I have to say, I agree, it is quite different to be writing small checks of your own, and not really doing the thorough portfolio value and tracking versus thinking about how you're managing outside capital. Right. So as a result, I wanted to use a lot more of the products.

4:42And so I started investing in SPVs. I ran a syndicate with the with the CMO of Carta. And so it's kind of fun, like the CMO of AngelList and Carta had a syndicate. We only let other CMOs join as LPs. And then we like voted on like three companies that were more tech companies to invest in like, oh, hey, you could have a line item of a bunch of helpful, you know, people who are your ICP. um and so that was fun um i became an lp in four funds um just to see what the experience would be like you know as part of onboarding as an angel's employee regardless of whether you're executive or you know from college they make you actually run an spv so you like understand the mechanics of how the product works i literally did everything you possibly could and then in 2021 late 2021 i actually left angelist to start a fund with a longtime friend um and it was like a micro fund and we made 23 investments.

5:37And so I did all of these things to sort of prepare me for this moment where I am now a solo GP running a$10 million pre-seed fund. I guess one other thing, I'm a venture partner at True Ventures, which is a 20-year-old seed firm, which is a very, very lucky thing, I think, to have my own fund that I run and then also get to be part of a large platform too, same time.

6:01Helen Min: Let's say you were, you eight years ago, But you kind of move forward in time to now and you were beginning your career as an angel investor now or maybe as like a venture partner somewhere. Like how different do you think the experience would be if you were trying to start today versus back then? I think it was pretty frothy, you know, even when I started. So people say Zerp started around 2018. And so that's kind of around the same time I started writing checks. So some differences, I do think that low interest rates and COVID in many ways, like downstream effects of, you know, people making Zoom, you know, their default way to meet people and do business, really accelerated a lot of the activities that grew venture.

6:56Venture used to be this cottage industry. It was tiny. It was like the tiniest little part of PE, which already was not so big, right? When you think about all the entire finance world. And it felt like, and I saw this firsthand at AngelList, you know, I was at AngelList from late 2019 to late 2021. So really captured COVID and also ZERP and a lot of the like frenzy around emerging managers and first time managers and activities and SPVs. Like we really saw it, you know, in our business, being able to capture all that excitement. So I think that venture has just gotten a lot bigger and it's become more mainstream in many ways.

7:37I think there's just interest and curiosity in the asset class didn't exist as much before. And I think that this goes through waves. I think this happened after Facebook went public as well. I think people started leaning in and saying, oh, you can make money from a tech startup. Like that's that's interesting. And it's like, yes, this happens every eight years or so. Like we come to this realization and then, you know, there's like a downturn and then we learn it again. But I really think that the growth during Zurp and COVID, you know, kind of changed the industry to what it is now. And now it feels big.

8:17It feels crowded. I joke in San Francisco, literally everyone you meet is an investor. I just found out my neighbor, like three doors down, was an early investor in Coinbase and he like doesn't even work in tech. You know, it's like everybody has money and everybody has access to some opportunity. And so it's just a much bigger industry.

8:38Helen Min: There's a kind of general conversation going on about like the state of tech, the public opinion of tech as well. The public hasn't enjoyed the same upside of tech as they would have done in the past, perhaps. obviously in san francisco that's less of an issue because far more people are involved and like maybe there's a bit of like an echo chamber issue there they don't see like what the rest of the country feels about tech perhaps definitely um so i grew up in buffalo new york so western new york not even you know close to manhattan and so i i like to remind people that like yes i've been here for a while but my default and you know where my my friends and my family live is very much in the Midwest and where tech is not a dominant industry and, you know, not everybody has a venture portfolio.

9:24So I think that the question about it being like this asset class that was small and the people who understood it understood sort of the quirks about the illiquidity, you you know, almost being like a feature and a bug and these really long term, you know, timelines for when you see outcomes, the power law. I mean, I had this opportunity to host a dinner in Houston with a bunch of family offices, which was so nice. One of my founders organized it. And it was such a great and funny experience for me because these were extremely sophisticated people. and very successful, but had zero exposure to venture.

10:17And I almost had this out of body experience where I'm explaining the mechanics of my fund and, you know, sort of the state of early stage venture. And you're just like, wow, this sounds insane. This is absolutely crazy. And it is, but I think that we think of it as normal, right? And it's this sort of swing for the fences, you know, hold never sell, you know, it's a very interesting dynamic and culture. And we have just enough, you know, extraordinary stories where I think that that keeps the, the lore and the excitement of like, well, you just, you just never know. And, you know, you invest in great people and great things happen.

11:02And as somebody with a marketing background, people are very good at telling stories looking in the rear view mirror and you can kind of piece

11:09Helen Min: together any story you want using any data you want to support the point that you're trying to make and so i think there's a lot of that that happens um especially when people cite data right they're very selective on on what data they cite to support what they what they want to say but i I think that the biggest thing is really that it is it's a unique asset class. It's been illiquid for so long and it's gotten so big that sort of the scale of the challenges of it being illiquid are starting to compound. And and, you know, a topic that you're starting to see kind of circulate around Twitter and conversations is sort of like this used to be a very long term patient asset class.

11:51And now the impatience of it is really starting to show and you're starting to see the infrastructure built around sort of that that lack of patience. And so continuation funds, you know, like they're like every emerging manager who starts a fund one right now, they're they're actively thinking about how they talk about, you know, DPI. What are their philosophies around distributions and how quickly do they think they're going to be out of the J curve? Like these were not questions that were asked of emerging managers, I think, even just like five years ago.

12:21Helen Min: And so I think those changes, you know, and then even SpaceX, like, very happy it's public. And I think it's volatile as a Facebook employee that wrote all of that volatility. I think this is all very normal and it doesn't really signal very much for the long run. But, you know, you wake up and you read a headline from the New York Times or Wall Street Journal. They'll report on the volatility as if it's like the worst thing, right? And that it's a signal that this is going to fail. And you're like, well, this is what most of the country reads. And so I think that it's, you know, everything is, the stakes are higher because there hasn't been liquidity.

13:02So everybody's watching. The industry has grown and it's become more mainstream. The TV shows, movies, like pop culture references around venture. And so I think people, more people are just paying attention to it. And, you know, I think, unfortunately, with the AI boom, there have been so many winners that are kind of unfairly or fairly categorized into this like tech bro billionaire category that makes it just a very hard, it's an easy target for a lot of folks who are not in the industry. And, you know, I, as a marketer, obviously, I'm like, somebody needs to grab a hold of this narrative, because I still think that compared to any other industry, tech is one of the most inspirational sectors where when you follow the exits and the outcomes, you really see how like, is is quite democratized, like there is not, you know, in traditional finance or consulting or law, you really do have to have gone to the right schools and worked at the right places to to get to the top.

14:04And here, I mean, you see extraordinary outcomes of people who have built, you know, incredible businesses and companies. And, you know, they come from all different backgrounds. And so I sort of choose to be inspired by that, if that makes sense.

14:16Helen Min: And, you know, I mentioned I work at AngelList. We saw that in the data. So I work really closely with Abe Ottman, who I know, you know, and when it comes to early stage ventures, so anything pre-series A, we cut the data like 100 different ways. I'm like, please give me some nugget where it's like, did you know that founders from this part of the country are most likely to have a great outcome? We cut the data every way imaginable. And the conclusion is that early stage venture is just wildly unpredictable. And you can take from that whatever you will. You could take from that that that's like gambling.

14:49That's like I decided to take from that. That is actually extraordinarily inspiring because if you that means anybody can start a company. I mean, And there's no monopoly on building something that people will love. And so that's kind of why I decided to make this more of a full-time thing. And I think that going back to my own point about venture being a long-term asset class, unless you're committed to doing this for 20 years, it doesn't really make sense. I think the Zerp era, especially being an angelist, you saw a lot of tourists kind of come in and start a fund and sort of see like, oh what is this like and um you know my conclusion having gone through that myself is like okay if i am gonna commit to this like it's got to be something i see myself doing and enjoying because i think whether you're having fun or not is actually very closely tied to how long you stay in it um for for at least two decades so there was some horror stories from the zirp period i mean

15:50Helen Min: i don't i like can't obviously can't name any names but there were certainly stories about But GPs raising a fund and then using factoring services to pull forward the fee income. So they got like a big lump sum up front. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's quite scary stuff. But that aside, let's ignore that for a second. The point about tech being inspirational and like egalitarian and good for growth, good for people generally like that's all a message I'm 100 % on board with. And it's always been interesting to me, trying to share that same message in Europe is harder. Particularly the issue of employee stock options, which generally speaking adoption in Europe is quite low, which is really weird to me because it's literally like sharing the ownership of the means of production with people.

16:43Helen Min: Like it's borderline socialism to give equity away to everybody. but like europe which europeans should love yes exactly exactly they should be all over that but it's just it's not in the culture it's a bit too risky i suppose there haven't been enough outcomes to prove that it's worth doing but it's a real shame because like that's the dream and if everywhere was like that i think the you know the world would be a better place not to get too soppy about it yeah i mean i definitely i definitely um see the irony that you're pointing out. I mean, what I'll say is there are industries that are linear and exponential.

17:23I mean, I think SaaS had such an incredible run. I'm talking about it in the past time because it's really unclear what's going to happen. SaaS had an extraordinary run because the margins were extraordinary. You could not point to a traditional business that could do this like hockey stick growth. And so that became like a mindset and a default for a lot of people in the way that they They made decisions in their lives. And so the way that I explain this to, you know, friends in the Midwest or whoever, I'm not even saying it because I'm not sophisticated. This is a crazy industry. It's just somebody like me who didn't intend to work in tech, who, you know, very, very middle class.

18:00My dad was a college professor. My mom was an engineer. And we did fine. But it wasn't like, you know, we were fancy. We lived in Buffalo, New York, if you know where that city is. Very blue collar town.

18:09Helen Min: I do. I do. Okay. And, you know, how I'm able to raise a family in San Francisco and sort of, you know, have the privilege of being part of this ecosystem. It was really because I was an early-tasic employee, right? And I was issued equity and things that I did not understand at the time. and I think that there's a greater understanding of it by the average 24 year old which is what I was when I started working at Facebook today but it's the equity that actually moves people into a social strata that they otherwise like really it would have been much less likely for them to reach if that makes sense right and that is actually pretty inspiring like how many people you know you know you can you can decide again your mind does these things where it clings onto of the data that it wants to.

18:54It's like you can you can name all these founders and executives who were born on third base. And like, you know, we're going to have an extraordinary life no matter what. Sure. And you can make yourself depressed thinking about those stories. But there are people like me who, you know, I was just very lucky to be a part of a rocket ship. And, you know, there are also a lot of downsides for having your first foray into a venture backed startup be Facebook, because now like my example of like what a what a startup should be like is like Facebook. And every founder that I meet is like, I'm comparing them to Zuck, right?

19:25They're like high bars. But at the time, I'm like, no, this is the average, this is the average, you know, outcome. This is the average experience. But my point there is, I think that that is, that is pretty cool. And when you think about and you when you zoom out, and you look at social, economic mobility, people generally don't move outside of like, whatever they were born into. And I have experienced it, of course, for San and I witnessed it. And, you know, I'm part of an ecosystem where I'm seeing sort of these bets that people make on themselves and also on the companies that they join and the missions that they want to be a part of, you know, produce like really extraordinary outcomes.

20:00So yeah, I mean, if there's a there's a campaign in Europe, and you know, that wants to tell these stories, maybe that would make maybe that would make a difference, but I'm not sure.

20:10Helen Min: Number of people have tried myself included, but really, I'll not give up hope that you know there's still there's still time maybe for the uk particularly um you mentioned uh liquidity and like liquidity horizons obviously stretching further and further at the moment how do you think about getting secondary liquidity taking a little bit of money off the table like this is always a debate do you want to sell your winners like how do you know when to take some money out how do you think about that gosh i i have so many thoughts and so many perspectives on this. I think that traditionally, it has been something you hold forever and ever.

20:50And that has, that was when we had, you know, an open IPO window. And even if the, the timeline for a company to have an exit was quite long, they eventually did exit. And I think eventually, you know, founders didn't start unless they intended to get to that sort of like finish line,

21:08Helen Min: and not settle for whatever, you know, in between. When I was a Facebook employee, we were going public. I think Facebook at the time was, it was like the longest time period a company had stayed private, right? That seems like a very short time compared to some of the current companies, right? Like I like to remind people, I was a Quora employee, a Plaid, an early Plaid employee, an AngelList employee. Those are still three private companies. And so, and it's been, I joined Quora in 2016. So it's been 10 years. And so these timelines are getting even longer. LPs are not seeing, you know, returns long past this 10-year window.

21:52And so I completely understand the impatience and almost this broken social contract, in some cases, like literal contracts of, you know, the expectations around the outcomes

22:02Helen Min: here. And then also, I think there are cultural things. Like, I think Ron Conway is a great example of somebody who loves to share that, you know, he was a very early investor in Airbnb. And I don't think he's ever said he's never sold anything, but he's still held on to a majority of his position, right? And what every time he reminds people of that, you get all of these founders say, Oh, I want an investor like that. And so you have this almost like cultural backdrop of like, at least in San Francisco, I don't know, I can't speak for everywhere, where founders are looking for investors who are going to be with them, you know, for the long run, and however long that is.

22:42Helen Min: And so you've got that against the backdrop of LPs who, you know, understandably are like, what is your strategy for delivering liquidity? You know, like, when are you when are you going to be satisfied on selling position? If you have an opportunity to take, you know, however much off the table, will you do so? You know, so it's, it's an interesting mix. What I find very fascinating, because I know you spend a lot of time on Twitter, I am also terminally online. I love seeing these takes of people who I consider not in the Silicon Valley ecosystem, talk so boldly about, oh, you need to take some off the table.

23:21Founders should know that, you know, it is their responsibility to get to let investors, you know, exit this and this. Sure, that seems very practical. But I think if you're here, and you are part of this ecosystem, and you have access to great founders and opportunities to invest, I do think it really matters that you are, you know, somebody who's going to be with them for the long run. Do you see where I'm going with this? It's like, so the loudest voices who are like, sell, you know, secondaries, this is just responsible. They're not wrong. But I also think that there is this cultural backdrop in San Francisco.

23:58where if you look at the data, like 90 % of, you know, venture, early stage venture activity right now, AI companies, it's happening. There is this kind of like the elite founders. And let's be serious. If you're a founder, you're taking all that risk, you consider yourself an exception, you consider your everybody considers yourself an elite founder, they, they want this ideal sort of like outcome of all of my first investors who stayed with me through the entire journey, They're going to go ring that New York Stock Exchange bell and just like all the greats that came before me. And I think I'm unique in that I have the experience of having been an early employee.

24:38So when Facebook was still private, I think there was active litigation against second market or whatever, one of those big platforms where they're doing private market selling and buying. And so Zuck was like, you know, sort of reminding us like, you cannot exercise like this is this is you can't do anything with your stock until there's there's an event. And so that scared me. You know, early in my career, I want to have a long career. I'm like, okay, I can I can never sell anything. And then when we went to when I went to Dropbox, which was the next, you know, venture backed startup that I worked at, Zuck was like an advisor to Drew.

25:19So Drew kind of put the same, you know, culture in place of like, transfer restrictions, nobody can sell. So I think because my like, background is being an early employee in a company whose culture was very much like, look, I'm sure there's always going to be buyers, you know, hot companies, and they're going to go after employees who might be seeking liquidity, but we don't tolerate that, basically, right. And so I've held that like throughout my entire operating career. And I wonder, because I don't have an answer to this, and we probably won't know for a couple of years, like, what's the equivalent today of a 24 year old, you know, who's working at OpenAI or Anthropic, who's probably getting insane offers, you know, to do a forward sale or some sort of transaction?

26:07you know what is the what is the culture internally and then you know sort of like how do they think about it individually because if there's a lot of folks like me who are like oh yeah it would have been it would have been nice to be able to take some off the table you know when plaid was in super high demand and you know had really high prices uh in 2021 right and so i think that um i'm curious how like this will change generation uh by generation especially with the backdrop of you know, the AI boom that we're in now.

26:35Helen Min: It's certainly a lot more like socially acceptable today to sell, even for founders, like early on, a little bit of money off the table, which I have mixed feelings about, let's say I'm not I'm also for even for employees, like, maybe the experience that you had of having to wait so long for the payoff is like what has made you a good investor since then, because you you're patient, you know, and that's obviously very important you know i think that to kind of go back to the the data point that i was making about angel list it was like we debate portfolio construction what's better a diversified fund or a concentrated fund we debate um follow-on reserves you know have them or not or all these things and like for for most of um for most things it's like what fits the manager what is the best strategy or philosophy for that manager to have to have them engaged sticking with it having fun you know um and so there aren't black and white rules here and so i you know so that's why i think that the cultural backdrop actually it matters significantly um because it's there's so much nuance to it right and so it's kind of like you got to pick whatever philosophy or strategy like fits you um and keeps you in it yeah i mean there's a another gpi i i follow that i'm i'm a fan of sarah cohn of social impact capital and she's posted in the past the only rule of venture capital is that there is no rules, which also connects with what you were saying earlier about trying to dissect the data to find some winning formula and finding that, again, like the formula actually is that there's no formula.

28:24Helen Min: There is no rules. There's no pattern. There's no recipe to follow. That kind of is the magic of venture capital, I guess. Yes. You didn't ask this directly, but I'll answer. It's like, what do I look for in very, very, very early stage companies or founding teams right and the data the takeaway that from the AngelList data and even my own you know I've made 55 investments now across funds angel portfolios all this um is just teams that stick with it will that's like the really the only correlation between when you look at positive outcomes it's that the team stuck with it and I do believe because this is kind of how I built my whole fund strategy around my investment strategy.

29:09You can underwrite stick with it-ness. Even a young founder, you can look at them and look at their life and say, is there evidence that you stuck with a very hard problem for a very long time? And to me, that is actually a really important signal that I'm looking for and what I'm underwriting during the very long duration that I work with founders. So my sort of like elevator pitch is that I invest in founders pre-pitch deck before they have a very polished story because I get to really see who they are and what are all the inputs that go into that story and, you know, sort of help them and co-create, you know, what's the, what are they building and why and who are they and why are they leaving, you know, an exciting AI company in this moment because they're dying to build this thing that needs to exist in the world.

29:56And so that process can take many weeks. It can take months. And I get to really know who these founders are at the end of the day. so that's how i find my uh investments and it's also you know how i find fun like i think this is

30:10Helen Min: this is a privilege to be able to do for sure yeah and that's logic the the focus on determination i think certainly sam altman's talked about that as a key thing they they focus on at yc just the real like this the if there's if there's something to look for that is indicative of success that stick with it necessarily the way you put it is definitely yeah and you know to the what we were talking about earlier about how big venture has gotten and how much activity there is and how when something becomes popular and more mainstream, you get people flocking to it, right? There's a ton of noise. And so I think right now, you know, you look at the number of the sheer number of companies there are like, if you just look at them on paper, wow, all these companies look great, you should back every single team is more, more likely than not, like whenever I open up like the my inbox, I like have a filter for like anything that comes in through my website, I read every single one.

31:08And it's like, every single team is extraordinary. And they're all building something great. Because I think that we're kind of in this gold rush right now, right? Where anybody smart and ambitious is like considering starting a company right now. And so how do you cut through the noise is this like, fundamental question. And not to get too too super cynical about this next point I'm going to make is like, I think that one thing that's happened is the category has gotten so much attention and sort of like prestige, that you have more traditional, like prestige seeking people coming into the category.

31:46And this has not traditionally been an industry that had that or required that to win. So what I mean by that is like, you know, you have a lot of folks who went to all the right schools, who worked at the right places, who are like, okay, the next high status move for me is to start an AI company. So I'm going to put together a deck and put all the fancy logos that I've been a part of, right, me and my team. And I'm going to go raise, you know, a$10 million seed round.

32:19Helen Min: And they often do. And so in an environment, but like, in the data and my own track record, and sort of my own lived experience, those folks do not have any advantage of whether they're going to have a successful outcome or not. Right. And so you have a lot of confusion in the market. You have people who are, because of their own background, biased towards people who look more like them, you know, from that perspective, like, you have to really sift through the noise and figure out where you get conviction and, you know, how you find your winners. And I'm a marketer. So I'm going to be just obsessed with this differentiation point.

32:55But in San Francisco, money is a commodity. Like I said, like my neighbor was an angel investor. I didn't even know, like everybody has a fund. Everybody has, you know, some, some check that they can write into, into, um, a great team early. And so you have to know kind of like what your unique place and right to win is in this, in this very big ecosystem here.

33:13Helen Min: For sure. And maybe the sad paradox of venture capital is that the opportunities that are easiest to raise money for, like, usually aren't the right ones, are less likely to pay off, let's say. And that's a really hard thing to come to terms with, both as an LP, also as a GP. For sure. I think the consensus point, I mean, we talk a lot about consensus these days, when the sort of piling on to winners and the concentration of, you know, yes, there's an extraordinary amount of capital going into venture. But when you really look at it, they're going behind a couple of funds, or they're going behind just a couple of companies.

33:51And for the rest of us, it actually is, you know, kind of business as usual. So it's, it's hard to sift through that noise. And it's hard to sort of read that nuance if you're not, you know, in it every day, right, which is why those headlines, actually, I think really do matter for like, public opinion.

34:08Helen Min: For sure. Yeah. Well, we have a few regular kind of quickfire questions that we finish with. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given when i started working at angel list um naval was quite active we were launching a a product that he was very passionate about called rolling funds i don't know if you remember rolling funds but it was a 5060 fund quarterly subscriptions it was almost like this sass approach to um being an lp and a venture fund and so he was around the office like he was he was like in the office this is right before covid and so i asked him for all of the advice he was willing to give me about investing.

34:44And so I always like to pass on because Naval is a prolific angel investor. He's the founder of AngelList. And so some of the things that he said that at the time I nodded my head and I was like, that's, yeah, that sounds right. But like only this many years later, do I fully appreciate what he was saying? Was like, if you're starting to make investments um you know choose whatever uh choose whatever sector stage check size whatever like no opinion everybody's got their own personal situation but like think about the variables that you can control because early stage startups it's such a wild and unpredictable journey that you don't want to throw your own chaos into the system so what he said by that was like pick a number of years, like almost create a budget for yourself.

35:32It's like, okay, I'm going to write. And then also, if you're going to do angel investing, pen checks, like 10 companies, like plan to at least invest in 10 companies, because then you have a chance of capturing the power law was sort of like his logic. And then make your check sizes consistent, because that's something that you can control. It's a variable you can control. And that is such a hard thing to do. Because sometimes you're so excited about company, you're like, Oh, I have so much conviction, I'm gonna write a 30k check and then you're like oh yeah this team seems good like yeah no i want to support them so i'm gonna write a 5k check actually you are throwing your own chaos into the system right so um he was saying like think about how much you want to spend total over a number of years create your check size um and then what was the last one it was like well the other the other variable you control is your own process to getting to yes right um so it's like if you have a bad day if you have a good like again like really think about what you can control because you cannot really control the outcome of what happens to that startup and so i think those are everything he said there absolutely turned out to be true um and i like to share that advice with people who are like early in their you know sort of angel investing journey whether or not they think that they were building a track record one day want to want to start a fund well that's great advice

36:48Helen Min: And, you know, obviously it comes from a legend as well. So unsurprising. All right. Last question is, if someone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best place? Where can they follow you? Oh, yeah, I'm on Twitter, like Helen underscore men. And I'm on LinkedIn. My website is articulatecap.com. You can reach me there as well. So, yeah, thank you. Thanks so much for the opportunity. This was fun. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's been great. and maybe we'll find a time to do it again in future. Would love that. Thank you. Brilliant. Thanks a lot, Helen.