Sarah McLachlan

13:05Amy Poehler:And then you're learning how to play how? When I was four, I wanted to be Joan Baez. So my mom got me ukulele and I started taking lessons. I lived in a little subdivision. So up the street, there was a little old lady who taught ukulele. And so I walked up there every week and took lessons. And then when we moved into the city when I was seven, I started with the Royal Conservatory of Music, which was kind of classical music was at the time kind of the only legitimate thing way to learn an instrument. So I took classical guitar for 12 years, took classical piano for six years. I took voice for four years.

13:41Amy Poehler:And, you know, it was a fantastic foundation to learn how to play the instrument, but it was never really my jam.

13:47Sarah McLachlan:Okay, so then you're listening to all these incredible singer-songwriters and you decide you want to be a singer-songwriter and you get a record deal at 19? Yeah. How did that happen?

13:55Amy Poehler:So the very first band that I was in when I was 17, the October Game, we played a gig at the Delhouse University sub-ballroom. And we opened up for a band called Mauve. And they were on a small independent label in Vancouver. And the guitar player, singer of the band heard me sing and was like, we want you to come out to Vancouver and join our band. And I'm like, cool. Cool. I'm 17. That sounds great. So I ran home to my mom and dad who, you know, promptly said, are you effing crazy? Not a chance. You're going to finish high school. And, um, so I was still listening to them at that time. Yeah.

14:30Amy Poehler:Smartly. So I, I, I squeaked by high school and then started going to the art college there. And, um, I was working at a place called Club Flamingo and Terry McBride, the president of the label came with their band, Skinny Puppy, which was this industrial, Do you remember Skinny Puppy? Yeah, I remember Skinny Puppy. Yeah, blood and guts and mud and gore. Very different than your music, Skinny Puppy. Yeah, a little bit different. So he came and I remember so clearly I was playing Quicksilver, my favorite pinball game. And I was working on my high score. And he's like, hey, I want to talk to you.

15:04Amy Poehler:I'm like, yeah, yeah, give me a minute. So I waited until I finished. And he took me out to his plush blue velvet tour bus and sat me down at the kitchen table and put a contract for me. He said, we want to offer you a five record deal. Whoa. And I was like, yeah, yeah, sure. What do you really want? Does anybody know I'm here? Yeah, there's too much plush in here. Yeah. But no, he was serious. And originally they wanted me to come out to Vancouver and work with a bunch of other network bands. Then when I got out there, they're like, all these other network bands hadn't been asked. And like, we're not going to work with this punk kid.

15:38Amy Poehler:She's got no track record. She hasn't written anything. Nah, never mind. But I was already there. So at that point they were like, well, let's just see what you come up with. And so I just kind of started writing to the best of my ability. I mean, obviously I had, as I said, a great foundation of understanding music and theory. I had done deep dives into my favorite artists, which at the time were Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush. don't give up don't give up sorry no it's good it's good I hear you I feel you so I just you know I just kind of fake it till you make it I just made my first record in about a year and started touring and toured and toured and toured and then you know just kind of went from there

16:23Sarah McLachlan:that's the thing that I think sometimes we kind of like you know we're kind of tough on ourselves when we look back and look at our naivete about things and think like Like, oh, we didn't know what we were doing. But there's such a freedom when you're young about kind of not knowing what's around the corner. Sometimes it's better to not know. Ignorance is bliss. Yes. Sometimes that's true. If you knew how important your decisions were, that if you went left rather than right, it would change your whole life, you'd never take a step.

16:51Amy Poehler:Well, you'd be living in fear, constant fear and constant uncertainty. So you're right. Just that sort of, you know, dumb and green. Yeah. Totally. Just like the world is kind of your oyster and all these possibilities feel endless. Do you remember your first time you ever heard anything that you'd ever written on the radio? Yeah. Where were you? I was in a taxi cab with my first publicist, Tony, on our way to Toronto to do our very first promotional tour for the record. And Vox came on the radio and the two of us looked at each other and just started screaming. You did not know it was going to be on.

17:23Amy Poehler:Taxi driver was like, what the hell's going on? I said, that's me. That's me on the radio. And he's like, sure. And we got out and we pulled out the, you know, the albums that we were bringing with us to sign for the record or for the radio station. And he's like, oh, can I have a picture with you? That's so cool. Yeah, suddenly he wants a picture. Yeah, but it was like, it just felt like, like validation. Oh yeah. Oh my God, how is it that this is already happening? It all felt so surreal up until that moment. And I mean, honestly, there are still many, many surreal moments after that.

17:52Sarah McLachlan:Well, you've had so many hits, like throughout your career. I mean, we were, I was listening to your music all morning and your new record, which is great. And, um, it, it's so hard to, like, you're, I imagine, I imagine that songs, you know, just like any piece of art, they just kind of have a life of their own. They take all these journeys. They, they bloom, they come back, they mean something different the next time around. Some of them you think, oh, these are going to be the ones that are going to really go and they don't, or others that you think like, this is the one that's like the one that everyone's always singing back to me.

18:24Sarah McLachlan:You have so many hits and so many songs.

18:30Sarah McLachlan:Do songs feel that way to you, your songs, that they have their own life and journey that is out of your control?

18:38Amy Poehler:Absolutely. I mean, music and art is so subjective, right? It's like you see something, you hear something, you read something, and it resonates with you or it doesn't. And you then, in part, you put your own story into it. And then that's where you draw inspiration from. That's how it affects you. So, I mean, the coolest thing is when people come up to me and say, oh my God, you know, this song you created or the song you wrote has helped me in this way. I brought it with me on my trip. And, you know, like I've met so many people who went through high school with my music or went through university.

19:11Amy Poehler:So, you know, really pivotal times and huge changes in their worlds, losing a parent, losing a child. Like, so all these stories about what it means to other people are beautiful and cool to know that there's something I've created has made some kind of impact in someone's life and been there with them on, you know, a beautiful journey, a tough journey and somehow help them in some way.

19:36Sarah McLachlan:I mean, you've been like a Cyrano for so many people because they've used your music to tell someone how they feel about them. You know, I mean, we came up in the era of like mixtapes and putting music together. It was such a big deal to, you know, hand someone over a bunch of music that you picked for them. And it was always like this. Now here's my playlist. Yeah, exactly. It was basically like, this is how I feel about you. Yeah, yeah. It was like, I can't tell you, but I'm going to have you listen. And there was always like coded language in what we put together for people. And so many of your songs and your music did that for people.

20:10Sarah McLachlan:They allowed people to kind of, you know, feel through you, you know? And is there, is there, I mean, you're, there's so many hits. Is there a song that like became bigger than, like, is it, that still kind of is like surprising to you that it, like it had the kind of journey it had?

20:28Amy Poehler:Well, I suppose that would be Angel. Yeah. And that was one of those very, it very seldom happens as a songwriter that something happens quickly and easily for me. It's like music is flowing all the time, but lyrics are really hard work. It's like extracting blood from a stone often for me. And I'm super ADD. So trying to, you know, it's like, give me any distraction when I'm trying to do something that is hard and challenging in the sense of, you know, trying to focus. but Angel felt like I was just a vessel and it just came through me in like two days and it was done and I remember thinking at the end of when I first put out Surfacing like the rest of this album's crap but Angel's solid I mean obviously I had no perspective I mean now knowing Pines there was actually some good songs but that is you know that's that mindset when you've just worked and worked and worked at something and you don't have any perspective but Angel has had um you know such a life of its own yeah and has done you know so many things as i said talking about how it's helped people through you know individual tough situations so many stories of my i've played this my mother played this when she was passing and really helped us um you know

21:41Sarah McLachlan:the spca obviously you know we raised 30 million dollars that was within the first year i think so

21:46Amy Poehler:So who knows what has happened since.

21:49Sarah McLachlan:Do people assume that you, like, do people assume you've, you're constantly fostering and adopting animals? Oh, yeah. Because you must get that projected on you.

22:00Amy Poehler:You would not believe the, and also just, you know, like the, you know, 10 or 20 letters a week about, you know, people sending me, you know, all their rescues and, or I'm doing this charity, I'm working with this, can you help? And, um, yeah, you know, and it, it, it took on such a life of its own. I remember I was doing a food bank charity gig in New York eight years later and they said, can you please not play Angel? Because it's so synonymous with this other charity. There's going to be some brand confusion. I'm like, are you serious?

22:31Sarah McLachlan:Is it true that I Will Remember You was a B-side? Like that, that, that song was on a, like in a film.

22:36Amy Poehler:Yeah, it was Brothers McMullen. It was Ed Byrne's directorial debut.

22:41Sarah McLachlan:That's right. And it just, that's like one of the many monster hits.

22:45Amy Poehler:Yeah.

22:46Sarah McLachlan:How many, how many, how many, how many number one, like how many hits have you had?

22:51Amy Poehler:I should know this. You're asking the wrong people. I suppose I should know this too. I don't.

22:55Sarah McLachlan:Hold on. We're going to look it up. I don't have a clue. You know what I want to do? I want to brag about you. I don't think I have any number one hits. I'm so sick of it. You know, we're always like, oh, I don't even know. And we should know. No, this is embarrassing. I don't know either. No, it's totally normal. And actually, it's why you're a normal person who doesn't look at their hits. But I'm going to look at your hits right now. Okay, I'm going to read them right now. Sarah, can you handle this? This is very American. Where did you find this information? Well, I just wrote Sarah McLachlan hits.

23:26Sarah McLachlan:You're consulting the Oracle? Okay. Building a mystery. Sweet surrender. Possession. Better broken. Ice cream. Oh, yeah. Angel. Vox. We talked about Vox. Heard it on the radio. Into the fire. Elsewhere. Fallen. Fumbling toward ecstasy. Adia. Possession. Sweet surrender. Building. Everybody listening right now is having this moment of like, huh, huh, huh, huh, huh. Because they're remembering. I mean, monster hit, Sarah. Hit maker. Thanks. Sorry. I'm just going to brag for you. Okay. So then you leave Canada. You're in a band. Sorry. you're making music. Are you in a band at that point? No, you're just kind of making music under your, it's never Sarah McLachlan and the...

24:11Sarah McLachlan:You mean when I got signed?

24:12Amy Poehler:Yeah. Yeah, no, that was the other tricky bit of that when they came and offered me that deal, my band that I, we hadn't been together for about a year because they'd gone off to school. So we'd kind of split up, but still they knew about it and they were like, what do you say? And I'm like, oh, you're like, well... So I had this beautiful, this sort of excited moment that I was like, I think they just want me. Yeah. Yeah. That's always, so that was a bit of a tough, a tough moment too, but, um,

24:36Sarah McLachlan:now you're, you start to tour and when, how old are you when you ask Paula Cole to open for you? 21, 22.

24:45Amy Poehler:Yeah.

24:46Sarah McLachlan:And, and why did you ask Paula?

24:49Amy Poehler:Cause I loved her. I loved her music. And how did you find out of her music? Um, I think just radio. Yeah. Yeah. I was, you know, listening and watching what, you know, what else was going on out there and discovered her. I was like, oh my God, what an incredible voice, which is so powerful. And I love her lyrics and love the melodies. And I was like, hmm, I wonder if she'd want to come sing.

25:10Sarah McLachlan:Well, what I love about the Lilith Fair doc, which is on Hulu, is that it talks about the kind of slow process of realizing there's a way to work. Like there's a way to choose how to work. It's very relatable, I think, for a lot of women who, if they're lucky enough, get an opportunity to figure out, is there a way I like to work that I could figure out? Like it's, that's, that's the dream. Yeah. And you asked Paula to join as an opening act and you two realized this is fun.

25:42Amy Poehler:This is actually fun. Yeah. Well, it's a, back then, I mean, I was, all my crew were men, my band were men. I had a female backup singer, but you know, it was just us and the sea of men who I adored and loved. They were my crew and they're a wonderful bunch of people. But I just, you know, having Paula there was just this breath of fresh air for me and this awareness of like, you know, we, we kind of need each other. This is a weird industry. It's isolating. We make music alone and, you know, it's just really nice to have her around. It was great to connect with her. Oh my God. I saw her at the TIFF.

26:21Amy Poehler:She showed up. I didn't even know she was coming and we both burst into tears.

26:25Sarah McLachlan:I was like, oh my God. Oh, that's so nice. I mean, it's wild to me, but there are people that don't really understand what Lilith Fair was. And for people who don't, they should watch this doc, certainly. But in a nutshell, how do you describe it to people who have never heard of it or didn't get a chance to go see it?

26:47Amy Poehler:It was a celebration of much of the great music that was being made by women in the late nineties. And it was, yeah, it was basically that. And that was the simple origin story. And then we were told we couldn't do it because you shouldn't put more than two women on a stage together. You certainly can't play two women back to back on radio. And I had felt that I had seen that and witnessed it time and time again, and I just never understood or liked the competitive nature of it. You know, I didn't think music should be put into those kind of pigeonholes. I didn't think we as artists should be.

27:23Amy Poehler:I certainly didn't notice it happening with men and that pissed me off as well. So, though it didn't start out as a political statement, it'd be kind of, you know, it'd be kind of came, became that when I was told you can't do that. I'm like, oh, oh yeah, that doesn't work for me. No, you're good. It just put a fire under me to, to prove them wrong.

27:42Sarah McLachlan:Because people were saying, there's just no way anyone's going to pay this money to see all these women performing like this. Yeah.

27:47Amy Poehler:How insulting. We proved our point in 1996 and then went, oh my gosh, this was so amazing and so fun. Let's do a full tour next summer. And that was the point at which just like, oh yeah, no, you can't do that.

28:00Sarah McLachlan:So funny. Really? Really. And it was still, you just can't do it because we won't sell tickets?

28:06Amy Poehler:Yeah. Promoters would not take any risk. They were like, you can't do that. You can't say, well, we just did. And we just sold out 15 ,000 people. And they were like, well, that's a, that's a one-off. That's an anomaly. They're like, this isn't going to last. It's not going to last. It was, you know, Ooh, that was just a little blip, you know, a little fad or a little trend. And I'm like, no, no, no, we can do this. And again, that back to that naivety of just, yeah, you know, going, what are you talking about? No, we're going to do this. Right. Um, and you know, we took for the most, there was like no guarantees that we took all the risk.

28:39Amy Poehler:Um, by taking the risk, did you make more money because you took the risk?

28:42Sarah McLachlan:uh yes actually like that's good i mean it's like you had some control we had some control we had a

28:48Amy Poehler:ton of control yeah and we got you know we raised over seven million dollars for local and national charities over the three years as well which was just amazing you know again i can't i can't stress

28:58Sarah McLachlan:enough to watch the doc um but on top of everything else you were doing i think what was so incredible about lilith lilith fair is it really did feel like a fair it was there were people walking around There were booths everywhere. There was fundraising constantly. There was backstage, everyone was hanging out. All the women were bringing their kids on tour. And it was like, it's like, it was like a utopian version of what it would look like if women were in charge of most of the systems of how to work. And it looked and still looks like this ideal way in which to be part of a community and still feel like you're an individual with, you know, you had a lot of artists who were very, very different on that tour.

29:37Sarah McLachlan:Yeah. And yet they still all wanted to hang out with each other. They took care of each other. You, you know, you, you pay, you know, you gave health insurance to crew who often never had it on tour.

29:48Amy Poehler:Yeah. They'd never had it before. That's kind of unheard of in the industry. Yeah. I mean, listen, it was, um, it was just an extension of the way I live my life. And again, looking at what it is as how it is as an artist, as a band member, a crew member coming into someone else's environment. Like how, how would I want to be treated? How would I want to be made to feel? I want to feel respected and taken care of. And that was just the MO. It's like, we're going to take care of everybody. We're going to make sure everybody feels good, respected. This is a, this is a safe space. This is fun. You're all going to get fed really well.

30:26Amy Poehler:I mean, I'll never forget, you know, crew came in first day of new, new artists and they're always super grumpy. I mean, you know, I've had that experience going to a festival, you know, where it's like, are we even going to get a sound check? Are we going to get fed? It's going to be a long day. By the end of the day, everybody's happy. Everybody's smiling. Like, okay, this is, this is going to be great. And that is the environment that I wanted to create for everybody there. It's like, this is an extension of me, of my, of my hospitality, of my ethos. Yes. You know, this is how you want to work.

30:56Amy Poehler:Be respectful. Treat, treat everybody the way you want to be treated yourself. Just, you know, like live and let live, let people be. And let's just, I know it sounds very woo woo and utopian. I'm still like that though.

31:07Sarah McLachlan:I mean, I just, man, it's like, why can't we all just get along? Why do we have to keep, and also why do we have to say these kinds of things and then apologize for like how earnest and like, because like you, it's hopeful. It's like, you know, that was the thing about the doc is that what I felt was, you know, you didn't, no one can get anything exactly right. Right. So what was really wonderful about what I felt like you were doing was constantly pivoting, taking feedback and adjusting. Like there was a lot of adjustments you made. You, what were some of the things that you, you know, when you were making that fair in its second or third year, you realized, oh, we have to adjust here.

31:49Amy Poehler:Yeah. I mean, we, the, the big adjustment was very early on, which was like, you know, white chick folk fest. And I mean, I knew that was coming and I was, I agreed with that. I, you know, and I was frustrated by it because we asked everybody, we asked all these different artists from all different genres of music. But, you know, to, to be fair, their management teams would look at the lineup so far and go, I'm not sure where the place is for my artists in this. And, you know, in my head, my naive head, I'm like, I listen to all different kinds of music. I know that most of my friends who are fans of music, they don't listen to just one genre.

32:26Amy Poehler:It just depends on their mood. So why are we being so, you know, minimizing and sort of looking at our fans and going, oh, they can't handle this. Of course they can handle it. They want it. They're hungry for it. And so to create that opportunity that, you know, for all of us to showcase our unique talents, it just, again, it just, it felt like the most natural thing in the world.

32:52Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

32:53Amy Poehler:But it was a struggle to get those, get a lot of, you know, black and brown artists for sure. Like, I don't know where my place is on this tour.

33:00Sarah McLachlan:Sure, and they want to see how it does. Yeah. And they want to see if it's real.

33:02Amy Poehler:The success of the first year then allowed us way more latitude and way more freedom to go, hey, you know, go back and push and say, look, this is a really great opportunity for your artists to expand their fan base.

33:14Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

33:14Amy Poehler:And, you know, we, in the second year, we also, we realized there was an opportunity again to how do you expand your fingerprint in a community after you leave? Not only giving a dollar of every ticket sale to a local women's shelter, but having a stage for local artists in every market, you know? So just creating those opportunities, tons of tabling of various local organizations, women's organizations, local and national, just raising awareness, creating the space where there's open dialogue about all these things.

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36:19Sarah McLachlan:and the women that came through that festival i mean pretty diverse and dynamic so good can we talk about them just for a second like okay so we've got we've got paula we've got sean incredible

36:33Amy Poehler:we've got um cheryl crow yeah erica badu michelle and davio cello uh queen latifah missy elliot Missy Elliott. First time ever on tour. I know. That was a coup. How did you get Missy? Well, you'd have to ask Marty that. I mean, he was... Yeah, that was above my pay grade. But somehow he got Missy and that was awesome.

37:00Sarah McLachlan:I mean, that footage of her coming out on stage, like in the giant, when she wore that big, when she used to do the big garbage bag stuff with like all the inflatable stuff and that style. So she's incredible.

37:12Amy Poehler:and such an incredible producer. And you saw the entire audience instantly stood up and was like, oh, okay, wow, what is this? This is so much fun. What about, you had the Indigo Girls join. The Indigo Girls were such an amazing anchor for me. They came on early on and kind of got everybody, you know, feeling comfortable singing together. Like I was still a good Canadian. Like I was afraid to ask. I really wanted to sing with everybody, but I didn't quite know how to do it. And it's funny watching the doc, how Jewel said it exactly the same way. It's like, I didn't know I was allowed to do that.

37:45Amy Poehler:They're like, oh no, why isn't everybody singing together? I'm like, oh, we can do that? He's like, yeah, let's just go do it. And so they just opened up this huge opportunity for all of us to really feel a whole different kind of connection. And that's when things really took off.

38:00Sarah McLachlan:And I also love what they say in the doc. The Indigo girls are basically like, you need some openly gay girls here to teach you how to party. Yeah. You had Pat Benatar. Yes. Emmylou Harris.

38:14Amy Poehler:Emmylou Harris. Bonnie Raitt. Sinead O 'Connor. Yeah. I mean. That was the part in the document. I mean, I've seen so many iterations of this over the edits, but I cry every time. Tell me why. Well, because she's gone and she was such a gift. What was she like? She was really shy at the beginning, but wow, did she open up. She was a little shit as well. She was super playful, like a jokester, prankster. We had so much fun together. And then to get to sing with her, it's like being in the presence of a goddess, basically, when she opens up her mouth and starts to sing. It's just, it's otherworldly.

38:56Amy Poehler:Yeah. And I got to be part of that. And I got to sing with her a number of nights. And yeah, that was pretty magical. And then just, you know, getting to watch that. Like all these moments that were so powerful and important to me and, and, and watching myself grow up on screen, like not a lot of humans get to have a gift like that given to them where it's like, this is such a powerful and important time in my life, um, that has been so succinctly and beautifully captured. Yeah. Um, so yeah, watching, watching that, it's just, she's, she's gone now and it's so sad. So sad.

39:34Sarah McLachlan:Such an incredible talent.

39:35Amy Poehler:Yeah. And she was, you know, she suffered even back then. Like she just, she was really misunderstood and, you know, yeah, it's tough.

39:44Sarah McLachlan:Tracy Chapman, another beautiful artist who I love in the documentary. You talk about how she was the one, everyone, one of many people that everyone came out and watched.

39:53Amy Poehler:Yeah.

39:54Sarah McLachlan:Every night.

39:54Amy Poehler:I mean, she's just talk about grace. Yeah. Just this quiet, graceful presence. She was very shy too. Yeah. It was kind of hard to draw her out.

40:05Sarah McLachlan:It's always so funny that people who are performing, you know, it's, it's things we learn over and over again, obviously, but we're reminded that people who are performers are not necessarily extroverts.

40:14Amy Poehler:Oh, she's such an introvert. Yeah.

40:16Sarah McLachlan:Who's the most introverted? I mean, who's the most introverted on that tour and who is the most extroverted?

40:22Amy Poehler:Tracy is probably the most introverted and extroverted. Maybe Cheryl. I mean, me, I was, you know, I was pretty extroverted. actually okay i mean amy and emily for sure yeah because they were just loud you know they were loud and proud yeah let's have fun yeah um so they brought that really like they said this really

40:43Sarah McLachlan:sort of geeky fan fan energy um and you had like you talked about emilu harris um uh bonnie ray chrissy hind yeah and and i don't know if you feel this way but i know i do because in you know I grew up in a generation where I feel like women my age right now are working together all the time and feeling really good about that and loving that experience. And when you meet someone who's maybe 10 years older than you, they just haven't had that experience very much. I've been on many sets where women in their mid-60s have said, oh, I've never been on a set with this many women. Well, yeah. I mean, they grew up at a time where we, you know, in whatever industry we were in, we were being offered a tiny sliver of the pie.

41:28Amy Poehler:And we were in competition with each other in every element, like it or not. And think about what they came up against as they were coming up in the world. That was even, you know, I would argue more toxic and more marginalizing towards women. Yeah. And, you know, you just kind of had to deal with, those were the social norms then.

41:49Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

41:50Amy Poehler:You know, you walk into a radio station and get your ass grabbed.

41:53Sarah McLachlan:Fucking hell.

41:54Amy Poehler:Or just knowing that that may happen or just the comments, you know, like, and it, you know, I get freshly.

42:01Sarah McLachlan:I mean, I think I blocked it out. Yeah.

42:02Amy Poehler:Well, because it was normalized. Totally. And you just, you suck it up and you keep going because, well, if you make a stink about it, then you're, you're pushed out even further into the margins. Yeah. And you're hanging out in a room full of boys.

42:13Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

42:14Amy Poehler:And if you want to be in that room, you kind of need to toe the line. It was the same thing. I was, you know, thinking about that, um, like Ann Powers is in the documentary. Love Ann Powers. Yeah. You know, I didn't like Ann Powers back then because she ripped the shit out of us. And I'm like, are you kidding me? And she kind of claims it, right?

42:31Sarah McLachlan:She's like, I didn't get it. She's like, I saw it.

42:34Amy Poehler:She couldn't have though, because she was in a room full of guys and she was a single woman, female critic, like I forgive her because I understand now I didn't at the time. I'm like, how could you be doing this? But the room that she was in was her male counterparts. And if she, you know, spoke appreciatively or in reverence to what we were doing, she would have been ostracized. Yeah. We all suffered.

42:58Sarah McLachlan:We all suffered in our twenties, in the nineties with deep internalized misogyny that we didn't even know we had in an attempt to assimilate. We were like, I want to be in the room. I want to figure out how to work the system. And I'm going to, without even knowing, I'm going to buy into a system that I don't believe in. And that's actually hurting me. And what I love about Ann Powers, who's a journalist in the film, who kind of owns up to the fact that she wrote about, you know, wrote about how she wasn't getting Lilith Fair and it wasn't for her. She realizes like much later on that she was grappling with her own like sense of trying to fit in.

43:38Sarah McLachlan:Yeah. I mean, Lil Fair got teased. Oh, ridiculed. Did you care about that at the time? How did you? Yeah. Yeah. How did it feel?

43:48Amy Poehler:It was hurtful. It was annoying. But I just kept going back to the fact that, well, you obviously haven't come. Yes. And seen it and felt it. Because if you had, you'd think differently. So I just kind of like, well, you can have your opinion, but I'm having the time of my life. No kidding. And I don't want to go. You're missing out. Sorry.

44:09Sarah McLachlan:Yeah. Yes, that's right. And I loved how you guys did press conferences in every city that you went to. It was so painful. Did you ever think about not doing them? No, because there were two elements to that.

44:23Amy Poehler:There was one to, you know, the press wanted access. We understood that that was part of the beach that you have to feed. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is at the end of the press conference, we got to give attention to a local woman's shelter. Yeah. You know, to sort of raise awareness for the issues that they were dealing with and to show that we were, and not to be self-congratulatory, but to show that we were giving money to this and to raise awareness for it.

44:46Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

44:46Amy Poehler:And I tell you that it felt so good to have that cherry at the end of this, you know, typically annoying and demeaning and dumb press conference where I just got besieged every day with, you know, why? Why do you hate men? Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? You're too much of this. You're not enough of that. Very typical. Don't be too pretty. Don't be too loud. Oh, you're too, you know, you're too quiet. Like, you can't win. And that was that thing that I hadn't experienced until I was, you know, in this quiet, radical movement that we were doing of just, you know, just basically being ourselves and celebrating each other and celebrating the success that we were all having and appreciating that and lifting each other up.

45:34Amy Poehler:Again, like, why is that so radical? Why is that so threatening? It was kind of shocking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, the press conferences were painful, but they were also an important thing to do.

45:45Sarah McLachlan:I mean, you handled those conferences from what I saw really, really well. For the most part. Yeah, you really did. Was it hard sometimes to be running the festival while you were in it? Because everybody else kind of gets to come in and like have a good time.

45:58Amy Poehler:I wasn't running it. Dan Fraser was running it. I mean, he had a hell of a job. You're kind of the, you know, you're the, you know, to your point, you're.

46:07Sarah McLachlan:I'm the face of it for sure. And you have to worry about stuff like, you know, it's like having the house party, right?

46:13Amy Poehler:Yeah, there were a ton of day-to-day decisions that had to be made. There were a ton of fires that had to be put out. Someone didn't show up. Someone slept with someone else. There was just fun. And then they were like, someone was angry and hurt, or someone said something that hurt someone's feelings. And you had to deal with it. Like, HR. Was there an HR? Great. Me. You were HR. Me and Dan. There was no freaking HR.

46:34Sarah McLachlan:We were all just like, okay, shit. Totally. You just changed it. How do we manage this?

46:38Amy Poehler:You put on a blazer and you were like, okay, let's talk. You know, it was kind of Julie, the cruise director, right? You know, saying hi to everybody, making sure everybody felt good, writing letters to every new artist. And it's, you know, it's like a hundred and some artists in one year, you know, so it's this constant flow of meeting new people and making sure everybody was great. And then, yeah, putting out the fires of the day or just being involved in all these little decisions that, you know, we kind of had to make on a daily basis. So yeah, it was exhausting and all encompassing. But, you know, again, the gift at the end was like, I got to watch all these artists.

47:10Amy Poehler:I got to perform with all these artists.

47:12Sarah McLachlan:Okay. So we do this thing on the pod where we ask people who know our guests to speak well behind their back and to give me a question to ask them. So we talked to Sheryl Crow this morning. Oh, my gosh. I know. And it was so fun. And so fun to talk to her about those times and you guys performing together. And, you know, I was saying to her, you know, it was just, it's so, it was just, you know, it will never get old watching you all be each other's fans. You know, like you're an artist and you're also a fan and she's such an incredible talent. And she wanted me to ask you two questions, which I thought were really interesting questions to ask.

47:51Sarah McLachlan:They're kind of opposite, but also feel like they're in the same world. One is, if you were not making music, did you ever think of what else you would do?

48:01Amy Poehler:Ever so briefly, because I don't know what else I would do.

48:07Amy Poehler:Either a hairdresser or a jewelry designer. Which honestly, I still kind of do both. Do you design jewelry? Yeah, just really simple stuff. Like I made last two Christmases ago, I made like 30 necklaces for all my friends and I'm crafty.

48:23Sarah McLachlan:You're a crafter.

48:24Amy Poehler:You know, I need something to do with my hands or they're in my mouth.

48:26Sarah McLachlan:Yeah. I love that. Okay. And that makes sense. Hairdresser too, because you like touching people's hair. Yeah.

48:32Amy Poehler:I was a dance mom for years. So I got to do all these, you know, fun. For your daughters? Yeah. Are you good at a blow? Do you a good blowout? I do a pretty good blowout. Yeah. Do you blow out your own hair? I like the French braids and the, you know. Oh, you can do the intricate stuff. Yeah.

48:46Sarah McLachlan:Well done.

48:46Amy Poehler:Yeah.

48:47Sarah McLachlan:Okay. And then, so that was one question. And then the other question was, did you have a sense, did you know deep down, you know, people ask this question from a lot of artists, but was there some part of you that knew that you were going to make it, that you were going to be famous was Cheryl's question, but like, was there a part of you that sensed that or knew that?

49:06Amy Poehler:No. No, I can honestly say no. And mostly because I didn't even know what that meant. Yeah. I did not know what that looked like. I did not come from a culture of celebrity, of looking at famous people and, and, you know, hoping to achieve that.

49:24Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

49:24Amy Poehler:My thing was, I want to do something that makes me feel good.

49:27Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

49:28Amy Poehler:It was so naive and so simple. But it's pure. And pure. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, you know, again, this sort of blissful time in the world where we could kind of just figure it out, figure out as we go.

49:40Sarah McLachlan:Yeah.

49:41Amy Poehler:Yeah. And we were, there were so many more opportunities to just, you know, to fumble around and try and figure it out. Like, I just feel like even both my daughters, there was just so much pressure to decide, you know, what university to go to. And you kind of have to make a decision about the whole trajectory of your life. And I'm like, oh my God, half my friends in my 50s still don't have a clue what they're doing. You know, I just got really, really lucky that I had this, you know, this path that I kind of got offered. I got offered the golden ticket at 19 and I was like, well, this will be fun.

50:13Amy Poehler:I'll go do this. And my dad said, listen, if this doesn't work out, the art college is still, it's always going to be there, but this will not. You got to try it. And of course I wanted to, but yeah, I didn't. It's funny in my yearbook, someone wrote destined to become a famous rock star, which is hilarious. And I'm just like, ha ha ha. Yeah. But we didn't know what that even looked like. I know. I know.

50:39Sarah McLachlan:that's very woo-woo. Oh, I know. Destined to become a famous rock star. Yeah. Somebody knew. Yeah.

50:46Amy Poehler:Yeah. So I guess it's combo of both those things. You know, other people can see things that you can't see too often, right? Yeah.

50:53Sarah McLachlan:And you talk about your daughters too. And I love the beautiful aspect that your daughter sings on this record with you. Yeah.

50:59Amy Poehler:That was a great full circle moment for me. Why? Well, because they, you know, they're, they both have beautiful voices. They won't sing around me. And I guess because, you know, I, I sing and that's often the case with kids. They kind of try and go the opposite, but we cannot deny they both have beautiful voices. But the song in particular, One in a Long Line, it's the last song I wrote. And I think it was this, you know, looking at what's going on in the world and the erosion of women's rights, not only here, but all over the world. And thinking about what do I need to say? I feel like now is not the time to be silent or complacent.

51:35Amy Poehler:Like I've always tread that line carefully and not been political. But I'm like, I have to say something about this. I'm just I'm so frustrated and angry and scared. And I have two daughters and they're going into the world. And, you know, we need to speak loudly about the things that we believe in, even though I was afraid to. So and I've always used music as my vehicle for expression. Yeah. So that song, to have both my daughters sing on that with me just felt really powerful.

52:08Sarah McLachlan:Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. And what was it like being in the studio with each other? The stude?

52:14Amy Poehler:Well, we actually weren't. It was in my daughter's bedroom on my iPhone. Perfect. Yeah, it was kind of at the, I wrote that song right at the end of the record. And, you know, Will was actually mixing the rest of the record and trying to organize my kids. You know, there was a bit of convincing to get them to do it the first place. I'll do it next week, mom. And I'm like, okay, we're mixing the record. Will needs these tracks now. So we just actually sat in the bedroom with my eldest and she sang it. She just put headphones on it. iPhones are amazing for that now. yeah um and then taja my little one went down into the studio she wouldn't let me near her when she did it yeah i was wondering if they would let you watch no yeah but my 23 year old you know just earnest full voice sang right in front of me so uninhibited it was so beautiful and again this is deeply more powerful because of the challenges and the struggles that we've been through for so many years as mother and firstborn daughter yeah because it was tough what what what did you

53:11Sarah McLachlan:what have you been learning about being the mother of a daughter of daughters like but what was what

53:15Amy Poehler:You know, I mean, there's, there's so many things I could say about that. And I wish, I wish I knew what I know now to be able to go back, you know, without feeling regret. What would you say to yourself knowing what you know now? I would have been, I would have been softer on her in a different way. I was a hard ass. And it's funny because I thought so clearly in my own mind that I was being the antithesis of my mother. And I looked at the way she parented and I thought, I'm going to do everything completely different. and then her words come spewing out of your mouth in a moment of anger and frustration you're like oh my god I can't believe I did that um but I just you know I she was undiagnosed um we thought she had ADHD and you know when things got hard this wall would go up and she'd just rage and be so frustrated and so you know I look at that and going how do we how do I help you with this how do we move past this because the world out there is scary and big and you have to have some grit and you have to do hard things so that you know you can.

54:15Amy Poehler:So I was tough. And what we didn't realize is that it was actually anxiety. And all this came out, we did family systems counseling and peeling back all those layers of the onion. The way I was communicating to her was just making her feel shitty about herself instead of building her up, which was completely the opposite of what I thought I was doing. So I had to eat a lot of humble pie and take stock and go, okay, look, look, I want a relationship with my kid. So I need to learn how to communicate differently with her. And in doing so, she also got to take some responsibility for the way she was reacting and recognizing that that's not where it's coming from.

54:50Amy Poehler:Anyway, so it was a long process, but it was beautiful and powerful. And we have such an open, loving relationship now because of that.

54:59Sarah McLachlan:It's so great, Sarah, that you talk about this. I just have to say, because it's the way that women help each other constantly is to just like break free from the narrative that we are getting everything right as mothers. Like it's - What a joke. It's such a joke, but it's really hard. It's kind of the last frontier.

55:16Amy Poehler:We all live in constant judgment. You know, it's like, oh, you know, you watch people look at you out of the corner of the eye when you let your kid cry on the grocery store floor. That's right. It's like, oh my God, corral that kid. You're a bad parent because you're doing this or you're doing that or not doing this. It's like, again, just constant judgment.

55:33Sarah McLachlan:Constant judgment and pressure and the most coming from within on ourselves. For sure. And anytime we share any version of that out loud, or just even in our friend group, like you just feel this feeling that everyone wants to say like, that's an exhale. Yes, me too. I'm feeling that too. What, you know, like it's, it's wild how we still do this to ourselves over and over and over. I mean, we get it done to us, of course, too, but we do it to ourself. There's an alarm, there's a siren right there coming to pick us up because we're such bad moms.

56:01Amy Poehler:I mean, it's the same thing with menopause, you know, like it was just, there was no conversation about it and just, you know, all the changes that we go through. Um, and thank goodness, like I, I kind of love social media for that now because there are so many platforms that women are now talking about this and all, and, and doctors are finally paying attention to the hundreds of thousands of women who suffered and who went through all sorts of shit.

56:29Sarah McLachlan:And the Like, is my frozen shoulder because of menopause? And doctors are like, we'll never know. Yeah. And I'm like, you don't want to look it up?

56:35Amy Poehler:No one's going to put any money towards research on that, you know?

56:37Sarah McLachlan:Yeah, they're like, huh, maybe.

56:39Amy Poehler:Oh, if men could bleed, you know?

56:41Sarah McLachlan:Things would be very, very different. That would be a good heavy metal band name. If men could bleed. A double bill. If men could bleed and skinny puppy. That's perfect. Okay, I got a few rapid fire for you. Okay. Okay. First of all, how do you, what's your sleep routine? I love to ask. people this. Do you love to sleep? I love to sleep.

57:02Amy Poehler:Are you good at sleeping? I'm really, yes. I'm good at sleeping now that I'm on estrogen and progesterone.

57:06Sarah McLachlan:Totally makes a big drift.

57:08Amy Poehler:Because it went to shit when I went into menopause. Yeah.

57:10Sarah McLachlan:And do you take any sleep, do you take anything to go to sleep? No. And what's your ritual to go to sleep?

57:16Amy Poehler:Well, you know what? Red light therapy has been my friend. Hold on.

57:20Sarah McLachlan:Talk to me about it.

57:21Amy Poehler:I have. I don't know about this. I have a massage table and I basically have this like six foot long panel of red light, especially because, you know, when I'm skate skiing three hours a day, as I was doing a lot, like your body needs, your muscles need to. I'm hearing you say for the first, skate skiing? Yeah. You know, like it's like cross country. So there's classic, which is in the grooves and skate is on the corduroy. And it's like, you know, biathlon and Olympics. You just said four words. I don't know. Grooves and corduroy. Are you on ice skates? No, no. It's classic. It's like, it's like cross country skiing.

57:51Amy Poehler:It's on these little matchsticks. okay and um you just you kind of they're long like cross-country skates but instead of being

57:57Sarah McLachlan:in the two you just said skates again so you're on skates or skis they're skate skis so what they

58:03Amy Poehler:are is a very narrow long we don't have those here you do we do not you do i have been to colorado i don't know how many years in a row skate skiing so you do okay okay um it's a big thing that's incredible so it's so fun i just i love i love being outdoors i love nature i would be outside all the time if I could. It just gets a little too cold, but you know, to be able to be for four hours outside in the snow, in the mountains, like just finding frozen lakes and going on, like it's magical. And the coolest part, but where I live is I can take my dogs. That's awesome. Yeah. So doing a lot of that anyway.

58:35Amy Poehler:So back to, yeah, so I exhaust myself if I can. That's right. Climbing hills or, you know, jumping in lakes, whatever. So, um, and then, so usually I spend like 15 minutes before I go to bed, just lying under this lake because it just calms your central nervous system down. It's red light, yeah. Red light therapy. Ooh. Yeah, infrared. You heal faster. I'm serious. I gotta get one of these red lights. Yeah, so I do that. Not every night, but most nights. You know, I don't really have much of a ritual. I try to stop drinking water around five o 'clock so I don't have to get up in the middle of the night and pee.

59:06Amy Poehler:Oh, yeah. So I front load as best of my abilities.

59:11Amy Poehler:But, you know, I usually go to bed around nine.

59:14Sarah McLachlan:Oh, that's what I'm talking about. That's kind of it. 9 p.m.

59:18Amy Poehler:That is a winner's time. I mean, honestly, 10 is probably a little more realistic, but I try to go to bed at 9, especially in the winter. Shut it down. There's nothing good that happens after 10. Not much. Especially when you have to get up at 6. Shut it down. Go to bed at 9.

59:33Sarah McLachlan:Wake up at 6. Feel like a hero.

59:35Amy Poehler:Give me eight hours of solid sleep.

59:36Sarah McLachlan:I am so much less an asshole. My dream is to eat dinner at 6.30 and then walk right into the bedroom. Early bird special. I try and eat around 5, 5, 30. 5, 5, 30. Yeah. And then just. Start to shut her down. And shut her down. Okay. Rapid fire. Here we go. Who do you predict is going to be your Spotify wrapped this year? Like who are the musicians you're listening to the most on your, like if we were. Phoebe Bridgers. Ah. Yeah. The best.

1:00:03Amy Poehler:Yeah. Or Boy Genius or, you know, combination of the two.

1:00:06Sarah McLachlan:Who would definitely be, would be on like a current version of Lilith Fair if there existed one. Top of the bill. In some ways, Boy Genius is the apparent of all that.

1:00:16Amy Poehler:You've got three amazing musicians, singer-songwriters, independently unique and beautiful, all choosing to come together to be a powerhouse trio. Yes. It's awesome. Best Canadian city?

1:00:27Sarah McLachlan:Ooh, I'm going to get in trouble. Vancouver. What's the best thing about being Canadian and non-American? That is so baiting. Sorry, don't worry about it. Forget it, forget it. Forget it. Healthcare. Yeah, healthcare. care. Surfing or paddle boarding? Surfing. So you surf. Yeah.

1:00:45Amy Poehler:I've been surfing since I was 30.

1:00:46Sarah McLachlan:And then, um, you were on SNL and Rudy Giuliani was the host. Oh my God. I remember that. Yeah. So it was Sarah McLaughlin and Rudy Giuliani in 19, back again in 1997.

1:00:59Amy Poehler:Yeah.

1:01:00Sarah McLachlan:What do you remember about your experience? Was that the only time you were on SNL?

1:01:04Amy Poehler:I feel maybe like I was on twice, but I'm not sure. Honestly, what I remember is Anna Gangster and like, you know, Basted in Blood doing that. I don't know if that was really rude to you.

1:01:15Sarah McLachlan:Were you on the show when Anna did the Lilith?

1:01:19Amy Poehler:Not the Lilith one, no, but Basted in Blood, which was the Thanksgiving song.

1:01:25Sarah McLachlan:I got to participate in that. Wait, you were in that? I was in it. Yeah. Okay, this is really interesting. Anna used to play a character on SNL called Cinder Calhoun, who was a very earnest you know kind of like progressive singer songwriter and she sang a song called Basted in Blood let's watch it Anna's such a good singer

1:01:58Sarah McLachlan:oh my god this is so good I remember this oh my god this is so good. Well, I'm so grateful that you came here. You are always ahead of your time and I can't wait to see what you do next and congrats on all the good things that are happening now. And it means a lot that you came by. So thank you so much. Happy to be here. Wow. Thank you so much, Sarah McLachlan. You are so cool and interesting and, and so fun to talk to. And, uh, it really took me down memory lane there. And, you know, for this polar plunge, I just wanted to remind everybody how badass Pat Benatar is. That's all. Just how amazing her voice is and how great of an artist she is.

1:02:42And like Sarah has just always been this, you know, woman kind of making music on her own terms.

1:02:50Sarah McLachlan:And she was, I think, probably Pat Benatar and New Edition were my first two concerts I saw when I was in middle school. and I saw Pat Benatar at the Orpheum in Boston in, I don't know, I think maybe I was a freshman in high school and her husband, Neil Giraldo, lead guitarist, still together. So anyway, that's all. Just using this time to say, Pat, if you're listening, I love you. Please come on the show and everybody else listening, here's to all the great music we had growing up and all the great music we have now and all the great music yet to come. Music will save us. Okay, bye. You've been listening to Good Hang.

1:03:37Sarah McLachlan:The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Alaya Zanaris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

1:04:01Sarah McLachlan:This episode is brought to you by Tax Act. Look, nobody wakes up excited to do taxes. Luckily, Tax Act makes tax season easy, walking you through every step of the way. Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts, or let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. Tax Act helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve, so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. When you want spring break to feel like, and a moment away from the kids to feel like, and your reward status to feel like,

1:04:42Amy Poehler:thank you for being a Hilton honors gold member. Enjoy your daily food and beverage credit.

1:04:45Sarah McLachlan:And now that nightcap in the lounge can feel like, it matters where you stay with Hilton honors earn the most valuable gold status faster and unlock benefits at over 9 ,000 locations worldwide. Hilton for this day.