Viola Davis

27:25Memorizing is— It is. You know what? Memorizing is the least difficult part of acting. Oh, I think I've these days. These days, I'm finding it so hard. Now, lately, it's like, you know, when you have another actor looking in your face and they're waiting for the line. Now I'm big with this. And then, you know, that someone has dropped. I did this with Meryl Streep, you know, in doubt. She had a line. I had a line or whatever. And then nothing. I'm looking in her face. Nothing. She's saying nothing. I'm saying nothing. It's obviously someone dropped the line. And then I realized she's the one who dropped the line.

28:04Oh, my God. Thank God. Meryl Streep dropped the line. And so then we did it three more times. Three more times that scene. She kept dropping the line. And in my brain, I was like, say the fucking line. Of course. But I can't tell Meryl Streep, you forgot the line, Meryl. You keep forgetting the line. And finally, we did it. And she was like, why does something feel off? And I said, because you keep forgetting the line. You forgot the line, Meryl And she's like, I'm not perfect And then she just said, well, why didn't you say something?

28:45And you did say something Yeah, I did But the Shakespeare itself feels just like you really gotta, I guess, your point, you gotta just keep living in it, living in it Well, here's the hardest thing about Shakespeare, too Please What the hell are you saying? What the fuck are you saying? What are you saying? And also the iambic pentameter. And also, boy, actors are going to kill me for this. But I went to Juilliard. And you don't want it to be boring. Listen, they're not going to kill you for that. Here's the thing about Shakespeare. All it is is people acting it and listening to it and going like this.

29:26And I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about. And we don't know what you're saying. Well, here's the thing, too. And if you don't know what they're saying, then they're not doing it correctly. Exactly. But you can't say, you know what? It's boring. I know. At Juilliard, I would fall asleep a lot. Oh, my God. I have a friend who it would piss her off. As soon as I was in the class, we'd have the greatest actors, greatest Shakespearean actors in the world come to the school. Within five minutes, I would be dead asleep. I would be knocked out with my lip hit in my lap. I mean, I would be knocked out.

30:01And to this day, she was like, I can't even believe you would do that. I can't believe you would do that. And I said, did it ever occur to you that it just didn't excite me? But that's the thing with Shakespeare. You just don't want it to be boring. Because at the end of the day, here's the thing. It's just about people. Maybe it can be kings and queens. I mean, it's a soap opera most of the time, those plays. But I mean, thank you for saying that, because the thing about like art in general is if you don't figure out how to find a way in, sometimes you feel really strange when everybody else is in there and you're like, what is it?

30:42How come I can't connect? Yeah. But Amy, let me tell you something. We going down the road of talking by acting like it's real deep. People don't see it. I see it as deep. You see it as deep. Most people do not see it as deep because once again, it's about mistaking your presence for the event. Yeah, that's right. I mean, my big thing are love scenes. I can't stand love scenes. I can't stand watching them. I can't stand doing them. I'm like, I finally said how to get away with murder. I'm not doing any more love scenes anymore. I mean, that's it. You write a love scene. I'm not doing it. Unless you give me a boyfriend who has a stomach.

31:24Wait, say more. A big gut. Yeah. And you know why? Why? Because you'll actually write the scene. It won't be about taking off the shirt and the six-pack abs. That's right. I mean, I'm watching. I did a scene with Billy Brown, who I love. Billy Brown loved everyone. And it's TV. Yeah. So Annalise Keating is in bed. Annalise Keating is sort of sleeps with a lot of people, men, women, which cannot be any opposite for me. I mean, I'm like, oh, my God. So, and I'm in the bed, I'm laying down and everything. And then he gets up with his underwear and they, I mean, they're literally just taking his underwear down, putting his makeup on.

32:12And he's got his abs. And then they want him to walk into the bathroom and come out with, you know, one of those scrub brushes and slap it on his hand as if he's slapping my ass. So he's like, slap, slap, slap. As we're saying the dialogue. I'm in the scene, Amy, and I'm like, you gotta cut. You gotta cut. Please cut. Please, I can't. That's my nightmare. That's a nightmare. It's a friggin' nightmare. That's a nightmare. So I said, if you write someone with a gut, maybe we won't be in bed. Maybe it'll be about everything else. Yeah. And then when we finally kiss, it's like something that's organically happening.

32:51But right now, for me, a lot of love scenes, it's like, that's the time to go to the bathroom. If you want to pick up, go to the bathroom. You come back. You haven't missed anything. Oh, my God. I feel you. I feel you. I've not done many, but the couple times it's been on the call sheet, I'm like, oh, no. This is the worst day. And by the way, anybody that's like, ooh, I got a love scene today, red flag. I had to do a love scene with Tom Verica, who cannot be more lovely. How to get away with murder. First love scene. Well, actually, my first love scene was with Billy Brown and it got cut. And I'm so happy it got cut because we were having sex on my car in Philadelphia.

33:39It was 12 degrees. I was terrified. First love scene in my life. But the second love scene, Tom Verica, who plays my husband, Hanukkah, with murder. So we're getting prepared for the love scene in the trailer. and the makeup artists are saying, so do you want anything to cover? I mean, I have stretch marks. I mean, I got stretch marks everywhere. I got stretch marks on my ass. I got stretch marks on my arms. I got stretch marks everywhere. I'm just going to say it. We all do. And so I'm like, yeah, I want makeup. I want makeup on my arms. I want makeup on my ass. And it's like, I got makeup on my ankles.

34:15Okay? He's getting makeup on. I mean, we're just basically spraying ourselves with makeup. up. Both of us terrified, okay? And then finally, I had the big aha moment. I said, Tom, this is what we're going to do. We're going to hold it up for the regular people. We're going to hold it up for the people out there who, you know, may have a little bit of something sticking out there or whatever. And there was makeup all over the sheets, makeup all over the bed, you know? you know thank god my wig didn't come off you know and that was nothing sexy about it nothing when you do a love scene in my opinion there's nothing sexy about it it's just it's hard your search for the realness in things like the the way you're looking for the truth in things in your own life and in your work it it it dovetails so beautifully with august wilson can you talk Talk about how you felt about doing his work and how important he is to you as a writer.

35:19Well, he's important because he writes about Black people. It's our cadences. It's my mom, my dad, my father. It's how we talked. I listened to them how I talked. And that's the beauty of it because otherwise, listen, I went to Juilliard. We were doing George Bernard Shaw, Strindberg, Chekhov, who I love, Shakespeare. So I did Blanche DuBois. I mean, it was just a scene. But I have to do, if you've ever read Blanche DuBois, I could not be any different than Blanche DuBois. She's extremely fragile. Yeah. You know, fading beauty queen, you know, all of those things. So to see and to hear me, you know, take my deep voice and try to will it down and sound like a white Southern woman and doing all that.

36:10It was like, oh, my, I can't do this. I mean, I shouldn't say I can't do it. I can do it. I can transform. I could do all of that. But then, you know, people in the audience have got to, you know, let me ignore the fact that this is a deep voice black woman who is self-possessed and very grounded and is not. But with August Wilson, I don't have to do any of that. Yeah. I still have to do the work. But I could do a work in a way that invites me in, you know. And that's the beauty of August Wilson. And you're nominated for a Tony three years after you got out of school for that? I mean, do you remember when you found out you were nominated?

36:53That must have been an incredible feeling. I found out I was nominated. You know, back in the day, back in the day when you had those answering machines that you had to call. You had to call the answering machine. I would call every single day to see if I had an audition. So I called and my agent at the time said, Viola, you got a Tony nomination. Oh, my God. I ran to my parents' house. They don't know what a Tony award is. And my little nieces and nephews, they don't know what the hell a Tony award is. I ran in the house. I said, you guys, my little nieces and nephews, they were in their diapers, running around, acting bad.

37:35Like I love bad kids. I ran in the house. I said, you guys, I got a Tony nomination. And they went, ah, they started throwing themselves on the floor. They didn't know what the hell the Tony nomination was. But we all just jumped in. I mean, come on. Yeah, amazing. Come on.

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39:32You were a very accomplished working actor on a lot of shows before a kind of America at large knew your name. You had a really substantial body of work. Do you feel like that allowed you, it was just like that 10 ,000 hours idea that you worked really hard and often and kind of figured out and you worked in TV, you worked in film, you worked on stage, you like got to like feel confident in your skill. Yes. But once again, that's the task. Yeah. But it's not always everyone's root. No, I understand. Yeah. And I understand that. And therein lies the problem with the business that anyone feels like they can do it, you know, but there was never a time when I was at the Guthrie Theater or working in Newton, Massachusetts.

40:23I worked in Newton, Massachusetts. I've worked everywhere. I've worked with everyone. Huntington Theater, ACT, Mark Taper Forum, Goodman Theater. I thought I had already made it. Yeah. I did. Yeah. You know, making your$6.50 a week, and then you did your 10 weeks, and then you qualified for unemployment. So you got your unemployment, and I'm sure you call in that unemployment every Sunday, got that$3.50. I think it went up to$390 a week. I thought I'd already made it because I could say that I'm an actor. But you do have to put in those hours in order to have some level of a process. Because here's what I think.

41:04Whenever I do a job, this is my thing with actors. It's a little bit of my pet peeve. A little bit. Is this. if you have a criticism for a writer you never have it for another actor you don't criticize them that's like a no no I don't care if it's a day player you don't tell anyone how to act that's the director's job if you have a criticism of the work if you say you know this scene is not working you have to tell them why and you have to know how to fix it I will say I will say Once again, I'm negotiating. I would say 98 % of the time people don't know how to fix it. Yeah. That's such a great point because I've often said that actors should spend a day being a writer getting notes from actors.

41:59Because the way that people give writers feedback is often appalling. It's like this isn't, and not just actors, anybody, but like the way writers receive feedback is like dismissive. It's insulting. they don't have a fix like to your point something they've worked really really hard on they hand it over and people just kind of like open it up and barely pay attention to it they barely read it they don't know the words they're like challenging stuff before it's even tried out and then conversely I always say to writers now put on someone else's clothes that's right go over there and scramble an egg while you remember two pages of dialogue while everyone you know is on the other side of the room drinking coffee looking at you.

42:50And then we're even. Yeah, absolutely. Whenever you have to fix a script, sometimes it's really not that deep to fix something. It could be a simple choice. But what happens is the filter that goes through is, okay, is it going to get more viewers? Are people going to want to see it? Is it going to turn on the 18 to 34-year-old boys? who come see the movie. That's a big one, Amy. Oh, yeah. I mean... The boys. The boys. And also, will men care about this project? And it's like, I don't know. Yeah, that was the woman king. Oh, yeah. I bet there was a lot of discussion about, like, we want to make sure our men show up.

43:27And it's like, do we? Do we want to make sure our men show up? Like, these days, me too. I mean, like, maybe they don't come to this one. Yeah, exactly. How about we just make one for us? Just one. I'm playing an Agogia warrior, I've just chopped off five men's heads in the first two minutes. Maybe it's just not for them. It's like a lot of the notes were less dirt and more lipstick. Are you freaking kidding me? Wild. Are you kidding me? Wild. I'm playing an Agogia warrior and I'm thinking about lipstick and eyelash extensions? That film, you are so badass in that film. That film is so beautiful.

44:11I loved it. You and your husband produced it together, generated it, made it for yourself. Such an example of like taking the currency that you had and using it and making that project. And the thing I wanted to ask you about The Woman King is, and for people that don't know, it's, you know, based on a real story. For people that don't know about, could you explain what it was based on? It's based on the Agogia tribe or warriors in Dahomey in Benin, West Africa in like 1854. And they were all female army unit that would go out and fight neighboring tribes and, you know, Yoruba tribes. Now, you know, the controversy is there was a lot of controversy, you know, involved with the Agogia warriors because they would have slaves.

45:01OK, I think ultimately that is what maybe people had problems with. And the other problem is, you know, it was an all black cast, mostly female cast. Mostly without getting into it, because there will never be enough time in the world. Dark skinned females who have muscles and who are taking men down. I mean, I trained for five hours a day and I was the oldest mother freaking warrior in the movie. So we train five hours a day for months, hand-to-hand combat. I have to tell you, though, with that movie, without getting too much into it, because there's a lot about that movie. Yeah. That was, like, very important to me.

45:46Yeah. I didn't think it was a big deal for women to be warriors. Right. I didn't think that it was a big deal to have a title like The Woman King. Mm-hmm. Because, first of all, there's a lot of kings who are women in Africa. They're actually called kings. I didn't know that that was going to be a controversy until we did it. I thought, this is badass. I mean, I would take my toy machete home to practice with my husband. I mean, not around my husband because he would say, oh, V, this is a lot. But I just didn't know it was a big deal until we started shooting it. And there was, you know, can we make your curls looser and more pretty?

46:34Could we do eyelash extensions? Maybe a different title. You know, this whole sort of watering down of what it means to be. Yes, this idea of just don't forget to stay soft. Yeah. Like while you're the hardest warrior ever, don't forget to be a little bit cute and soft because God forbid you just step into your full power. Absolutely. And God forbid that you don't turn me on. That's right. That you don't look sexy. That's right. And, you know, it sort of leads into the whole thing of the value of beauty. You know. That's right. I mean, I'm definitely like at 60 years old, I feel fabulous because I am one of those women.

47:22I got that done and over with very, very early in life. You know, I feel for the beautiful women who were younger and now they're older and they walk in the room and no one's looking at them. Yeah, that's tough when your beauty is your number one currency because it goes away fast. Exactly. It's really fickle. and but I will say and you spoke about this when you were doing the woman king like the way in which you created this new relationship to your body in your 50s I think a lot of women I know a lot of women I know I speak for myself you start to really take you really kind of look and you say okay this is my one body I really you know the the ways in which I got to kind of put it in the on the back burner in my 20s and 30s I really have to pay attention to it now and I've joked on here They're like, we got to eat 85 grams of protein and we have to lift weights.

48:12But you did that. What did you learn about yourself when you were training five hours a day? You know what, Amy? It was the first time I could walk into a room with that. It was a leather sort of shirt I had on, armor that I had on. And so my stomach was exposed. It was the first time I could walk on the field and in a room and totally be in my body. You know, there is something about the female body, what you're sort of conditioned to believe about it, that it's got to be beautiful, right? Yeah. So it's got to be thin and beautiful. And the why and the how it has to be beautiful is always tied to male desirability.

48:59That's right. it's never tied to being capable it's tied to a shrinking yeah exactly shrinking and not being capable not being strong yeah not being you know it's never ours yeah and so even in the practicing i was gonna lie a little bit i was gonna lie a little bit well i hope it was a little tiring Like, I hope you were days where you were like. No, no, no. This is what the lie was. Okay. This is what the lie was, Amy. Okay. Cue music for negotiating. Yeah, cue, you know, hit them up by Tupac.

49:39I was going to say, you know, if, you know, just to, in the practicing, because we would do an hour of weightlifting, 30 minutes of running on the treadmill at 10.0. Oh, no. I've done 10.0. That is a disaster. And it was a disaster. Wait, 30 minutes straight of 10.0? Like, was it sprints? Sprints. God damn it. And then three and a half hours. I mean, by the end, I mean, and you saw all these young girls, they'd have a little sweat on their bodies. I would sweat out three, four shirts a day. So I would go to choreo for three and a half hours and you're taking down eight, seven dudes at the same time.

50:20Okay. Eight, seven dudes. What I was going to say is, you know, it was so great because then I could really tap into the part of me that I never tapped into before. That's bullshit. I was always that girl that wanted to kick someone's ass. Yeah. And probably did a couple of times. But it gave me permission to do it. Yes. And there was one guy, huge, 6 '4", 260. I mean, come on. That's exciting. And I felt like I could do it. Yeah, yeah. Now, whether I could do it or not in real life, who knows? But the feeling like I could. You have stood toe to toe with such amazing actors, Denzel. You talked about Meryl.

51:06You worked with Chadwick. When you're in that zone with people that good and you're like, what is it? I guess I'm asking you, what's it like to be in the World Series? Yes, exactly. And not piss in your pants. Um, well, with Meryl, that was it. Yeah. I mean, she's the best. She's so great. And funny. And funny. And cool. And cool. Meryl. Meryl. It's like you could be that great and that cool. Well, you're like that too. That's why you guys are so good. Because you're so good that you don't have to be assholes because you know how good you are. And you know there's assholes out there. Yes, because they're not that good.

51:47We won't mention them. You know, or I should say they're not being led by insecurity. So you and Meryl meet, of course you guys are friends and respect each other because you're both so good. But I followed her everywhere. On set? On set. I mean, to the point where it was like, you know when you say to yourself, okay, tomorrow I'm not going to do that because I don't think it made her, it didn't make her feel comfortable. Because at one point, she would never admit this. She probably doesn't remember it. But she was going to set and I was trying to keep her from going to set. because I was too excited.

52:22So I was like, so how's it going? She was like, oh, good. So I'll see you later. She was going up the stairs. And then I was like, so it was going good, right? So the day was really good. And you know when someone's trying to do something and you're stopping them from doing it and they don't feel like, they don't want to be rude to you by going, shut the fuck up, I got to get to set. So she was being really nice. And I said, okay, so I'll see you later, right? So I worked next week. So I worked next week. And, you know, she was like, yeah, yeah. So that was the first day. And then I was like, I'm not going to do that tomorrow.

52:56So I'm not going to do that tomorrow. I went back tomorrow. Oh, yeah. I mean. And we're sitting there. And then I'm staring at her. And I'm really shy. She's not that shy. She's sort of shy, but not that shy. So then I don't, because I'm not good with small talk. And I go, longest pause. and then I said, can I get you some tea? And she said, no, baby, no, you don't have to get me any tea. And I was like, okay.

53:32So I couldn't think of anything else. I kept staring, staring, and you could tell. You know when you stare, you could tell she was really trying to be gracious. And the only thing I could come up with, I was like, you got beautiful skin. I actually said that to Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep, I love you. And then finally my husband, who was like, V, did you tell that woman that you love her work? You didn't tell that woman you love her work? I said, well, Julius, I just, she said, when I get to that damn set, I'm going to tell her that I love her work. And I'm going to tell her that she is your favorite actress.

54:11I said, don't say that. And Julius finally came to the set and he said, Viola loves you so much and you are so beautiful, Meryl. You are such a wonderful actress. She blushed. She was like, oh, Julius. Well, I have met Julius and Julius is something else. Do you find, I mean, I know I find that sometimes in my life people want me to be funny and they're a little disappointed when I'm not quite bringing it. Do you feel, conversely, that sometimes people assume that you're going to exchange in something very deep and serious with them and you just want to laugh? All the time. Because I feel like what I'm learning about you is that you love to joke around and laugh.

55:00Oh, but I mean, I can't really even joke around like I want because I'm dirty with it. Fantastic. Why can't you do it? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't want to go down like that, Amy. No, you don't want to go down. I'm dirty with it. Who did you love growing up? Like who were your. Oh, the first one. Who'd you love? Mom's Maple. Oh, yeah. And she was dirty, dirty. So dirty. I would play that album over and over again. Flip Wilson. Yes. Over and over again. Red Fox. Red Fox. Over and over again. So dirty. The dirtier, the better. Yeah. We can't go there. Yeah. So funny.

55:38Yeah. So you would play those records when you were. Oh, I would. Yeah. And you know why, too? Because they told stories. And come on, the original dirty of the dirtiest of the funniest is Richard Pryor. Yeah. Whenever I feel down, I play that live in concert over and over and over again. Oh, my God. That's just the best. And he talks about his kids. One part where he talks about his kids and how he doesn't know how to swim. And every time he gets into the pool, he's drowning. He's basically drowning. And his kids are like, ah, daddy, he's so funny. And he's like, you motherfuckers, I'm drowning, you know?

56:18It's like, I love that, you know? Okay, now I want to get to your book before we finish because, you know, your relationship to writing is an interesting one to me. I mean, I'm sure you have, you know, we talked about it earlier, this idea of like when you're acting and you're writing and you're working with writers and what that kind of writing looks like. And then there's the different kind of version of writing when you're writing a book, when you're writing fiction, and when you're writing a memoir, which your memoir was a huge hit. You won the Grammy. That was your EGOT, when you did the recording of it, when you read your book on tape.

56:56And that book came out a while ago. And I'm curious, you know, when we write about our stories and then they go out into the world and everybody gets to kind of read them and process them. Have you ever heard from anyone from your past after that book came out? I hear from various ones all the time. My fourth grade teacher in fourth grade, I have the story in my book that was, and I actually went back to my fourth grade class too, the actual classroom. But in my fourth grade, that was almost the height of my dysfunction, my dysfunctional life. But in the book, it still has a lot of shame for me.

57:42I would go to school. I would smell so bad. I mean, there are no words for it. Okay. And this teacher that I had that I loved, I loved her, Mrs. Cody. She sent pictures to my sister, who was a school. She was a school teacher in Central Falls. She sent all these pictures that she had saved of me. Wow. I have no pictures of my childhood. She saved these pictures and she saved some of my writing. Wow. And in one of the pictures, I was at a museum looking at this sculpture. And all the kids were behind me who were in my class. But I was looking at the sculpture and my mouth was gapped open in awe.

58:33And I thought to myself, you captured something in me that I didn't know I had in me. Was already that when something was beautiful, when something was created that I would have no connection to otherwise, I saw it? That was in one of the pictures. And she told my sister that she never forgot me as a student. And she was the one who actually told me that I needed to go to the nurse one day because I smelled so bad. That my mom had to get some soap and hot water and you need to wash yourself because the odor is too much. She was a teacher who told me that. And I loved her. That's why it hurt so bad.

59:19Yeah. See, once again, the paradox, right? Yeah, she's looking out for you. But feeling shame. She's the one who I felt shame me. She didn't really shame me. Do you know what I'm saying? But that was a big one. I mean, it feels like writing has been something that's been a big thing that you've wanted to do for a long time. And then you write, you're now co-written a book with James Patterson. It's on my shelf. It's right here. Judge Stone. Judge Stone. Book is out. Yeah. What is it about? It is about a 13-year-old girl named Nova who has an abortion, who gets raped and has an abortion. In Union Springs, Alabama, Alabama has the strictest abortion laws.

1:00:05And the doctor who performs the abortion is now on trial for murder. So it is definitely to kill a mockingbird. It is just, it's pulsating. It's all of those things. But, you know, even like To Kill a Mockingbird, which, you know, the courtroom was sating, you know, Tom Robinson, Mayella Yuol. It was just heart-stopping, right? But the characters within it were just as memorable as the trial. That's what I feel about, you know, Judge Stone. And James Patterson is like— Viola, you can do anything. No, I can't. I can't, you know— Tell us what you can't do. I can't bake. Okay. You know. You could probably learn.

1:00:56I have a 15-year-old at home. It's like, it's just me. And you're probably out of the teen years. No, I'm right in the middle of it. I got a 15 and a 17-year-old. Oh, I have a 15-year-old. Yeah. There's no easier way to feel uncool than when your kid, your teen kid looks at you like, what? I'm not cool. No. But you're not supposed to be cool to your kid. If you're cool to your kid, that's weird. I know. I think so. It's like, I'm not cool. Nobody wants to be the parent that hangs with their kids and their kids are like, wow, your mom is so cool. Yeah. I don't want to go to an escape room. No. You don't have to.

1:01:34You don't have to. I try to. That's why I jumped out of a plane. I tell people I jumped out of a plane. What? Oahu, Hawaii. I jumped out of a plane to be cool for my daughter. I did, Amy. What year was this? Just recently? I was 57, 56, 56, 57. So I'm 60 now. Yeah. What did you think of jumping? What was it like? Was it awful? It seems awful. It truly seems like awful. Have you ever jumped? No, I'm not jumping out of a plane. I jumped out of a plane because we had the most awesome nanny. When I say awesome, it's like everyone else is great nanny. And ours was like God. Okay. she jumped out of the plane you know you're jumping in tandem with someone who's talking like I was going to say you're jumping in tandem with someone you met like yesterday and he was like so Viola you're a great actress so what do you like better theater or film and I want to say shut the fuck up you're like focus Zach my favorite movie is The Parachute Working and look at that That's yummy mommy volcano right there.

1:02:51And that erupted. And I don't fucking want to get a volcano. And then they roll the curtain up and they say, OK, so let's go. That's cool. I mean, Viola, that's a badass that you did that. I will never do it again. Although it was a terrific experience. I told my daughter as I was falling down because she said, Mama, if you die, can I have your wigs and your money? So I'm falling down. So I'm falling down. I'm falling down. And I told her, don't listen to mama. Don't listen to me. I think every cuss word that I could possibly imagine. I mean, it was coming out of my mouth. You have no idea.

1:03:36But I did it because of Molly. You did it. I did it because of Molly. And you and Julius, we talked about your husband a little bit. you guys have like when you do stuff together and you um talk publicly together you laugh a lot you laugh a lot and you laugh you have fun i mean look your your relationship is very aspirational and i don't want to project upon it because i i know everyone's relationship is their own private you know a relationship is like a country with its own set of rules and you don't really know it unless you live there but what it seems like is you have the best relationship ever and you have a wonderful marriage and beautiful loving partner it's fantastic he drives me crazy i drive him crazy and want to hit him but then i the love of my life yeah you know he's just the love of my life yeah and when i say laugh no amy i mean just he is a character and every time he comes up and And, you know, in public, you know, he puts, you know, the brave, the mask and everything on.

1:04:42But the guy is absolutely hysterical. I mean, and does the oddest things that for me, there's a little bit of me that says, is he crazy? He could be crazy. I mean, he lost his salt. He couldn't find his saltine crackers one day. Salting damn crackers. Yeah. And he was convinced that someone broke into our house, was living in our attic, and had stolen his saltine crackers. And so I was like, why are you walking around the house with a baseball bat? V, I can't find my saltine crackers, V. I said, well, did you look in the cabinet behind the tuna fish? Yeah, and they said there was four packages, V.

1:05:32Now there's only three packages left. V to someone in their attic. And here's for me what for me is about love. I was like, oh, my God. He's crazy. There's someone living in the attic. And what did I do? I grabbed my baseball bat, too. And we looked for the person together in the attic until I finally found the salting crackers near the tuna fish. And it's just like, I love it. I do. I know. I mean, your love is very, very special. And then talking about his mom and just the stories. He's another one that could tell. Well, we talked to him before your interview. And I want you to know he's the only spouse we've talked to.

1:06:19You know, we do a thing where we kind of talk well behind somebody's back before they come in and I get a question to ask our guest. And Julius was the only spouse we wanted to talk to because we were like, first of all, they seem like they really like each other. um and but he's he's he spoke so beautifully of course about you viola but he also speaks to a bigger idea of what women a lot of women yearn for and hope for which is that somebody really sees them like somebody sees them in real time and celebrates their wins oh yeah he does he does you seem like you do that for each other oh yeah totally and again a simple thing to say but but sometimes hard to find like that.

1:07:03Do you think that is the secret to why you've been together so long is the way you do that for each other? You know, by the time I met Julius, I absolutely understood what love is. You know, first of all, I thought he was cute. You know, I thought he had a tight ass. I'm not going to lie to you, Amy. Yeah. Don't. Yeah. He had a tight ass. He was a football player. So cute. You guys were actors on the set. He was handing you blood. You were in a hot nurse's outfit. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, he's really cute. And I was really lonely. And so that was it, of course. I mean, I just, with him, it was.

1:07:40And I prayed for a football player type dude, you know. And it was him. Yeah. And, but you know what got me with him is he told me his story. Because he's a talker. But he told me his whole story from the giddy up. Cool. Everything. Good and bad. Straight note chaser. You know, he raised his kids on his own. He's been married, you know, all of those things. It just, and for me, it opened me up. He's just a dude. He's been wired right. He has. Well, he has three really weird questions for me to ask you. I know he's great in every way, but I don't understand these questions. Julius. Julius. One of them is, ask her about Zuni.

1:08:34Who is Zuni? And can I Google it? Because Julius was talking about a TV show that he grew up with that I've never heard of. Power XL5. What? Oh, no, Amy. Zuni. It's a cartoon with puppets that he watched when he was a kid. Wow. Zuni. Do you see Zuni? Hold on. Z-U-N-I? Okay. You see Zuni now? With the giant head? Yeah, you see that? Let's see, let's see, let's see. And you pressed in the images of it? Let's see. Yeah, images. Let's see, where's Zuni? Okay, Zuni. Z-O-O-N-I-E. Oh, Z-O-N-I-Z. That's right. Okay, Zuni. I'm a classic spelling something wrong. For your listeners, Zuni looks like. Who's Zuni look like?

1:09:18No, I'm going to tell you who Zuni looked like.

1:09:23We were laying in bed and Julia said, V, you know who you look like? As soon as I met you, I was like, she make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. She remind me of somebody I know. And then I thought about it. Zuni. You look like Zuni. That's who you are, V. Zuni. And this is a show that he would watch every Saturday. He was the only one in his family who wanted to watch it. I can't believe the show. It looks like it's dolls and puppets. Dolls and puppets. And he was the only one who wanted to watch it. None of his brothers and sisters wanted to watch it. They say, nah, Julius, he want to watch, we don't want to watch Zuni.

1:10:01And his mom would say, let that, let that damn boy watch Zuni. That's all you talk about, Lili. Zuni, Zuni, Zuni, damn Zuni. Watch that damn Zuni and get your ass out of the house after you watch that Zuni. So Zuni, I remind him of Zuni. And Zuni is - With big lips and big eyes. It's like, almost like a little ferret meets a sloth meets a - Amy, no, Amy - It's cute though. Zuni's cute. That's messed up. No, Zuni is messed up. I call him Ferdinand because he looks exactly like Ferdinand. Ferdinand the Bull? Yeah, we name people. He looks just like Ferdinand. Okay, the other question he wanted me to ask you is, ask her about Shadow of a Gunman.

1:10:46He's setting you up for some stories. Oh, he's setting me up. It was one of our first dates. He said, V, you want to come? If you know him, you would know that this is a great imitation of Julius. V, one of my friends is doing Shadow of a Gunman. You know that play. You know that Irish play, Sean O 'Casey, Shadow of a Gunman, in some small theater off Abbot Kinney Boulevard in Santa Monica. So we go to see Shadow of a Gunman, and I'm walking in going, oh, we're going to go see some theater. And so we go to this theater. We walk in, and I'm like, okay, let's sit in the front, 99 seats. No one's at the theater.

1:11:22So I said, let's sit in the front. He was like, uh-uh, we ain't sitting in the damn front. Let's sit all the way in the back. Let's sit up there in the back. I was like, but Julius, we're all the way in the back. He said, V, let's sit up in the back. We sit up in the back. He's got the chair near the wall. As soon as the curtains go up, he's dead asleep. The only reason why he wanted to sit in the wall is to take a nap all throughout the play. And the only time he woke up is when he thought some sex scene was going to happen. He woke up for two seconds. He woke up for two seconds thinking he was going to see some good goodimuses, we call it.

1:11:57And nothing happened. It was the worst production in the world. And oh, my God. Oh, my God. And then afterwards, he went up to his friend and he said, I love that performance. You were a fan. And you know when you did that thing? That thing you did. I was like, Julius, you slept through that whole damn performance.

1:12:20Are you guys watching, listening? What's making you laugh these days? Where do you get your comedy? In bed. Yes, with each other. With each other, it sounds like. Oh, my God, with his imitations. Yes. I mean, no, Amy, like, I mean, just absolutely hysterical. Yeah. I'm telling you. It's so fun to hear how you guys like to play. Oh, yeah. It really feels like there's young versions of you, healed young versions of you together. This morning, we were just talking. When we first got together, and they wanted me to do the play that I won my first Tony Award for, King Hedley. But I remember when I was offered the role, and I said, I don't know if that role is good enough for me, Julius.

1:13:11First of all, can I just tell you, I never talk like this. So the fact that I remember talking like this shows you that I'm full of shit. So I said, Julius, that role is not good enough for me. And he's sitting in the living room. He's just listening to me. He just got out of the shower. I said, this role is not good enough for me. And, you know, they think I'm going to go to New York and they think I'm going to do A, B, and C. And they think I'm going to do that role. I need the lead role. I need to get the lead role. And he's listening, listening, listening. And then there's a pause. And I said, so what do you think, Julius?

1:13:43He said. This is what I think, V. You need to take your ass to New York and you need to do that damn play. Because here's the thing. You ain't got no damn job. And we're not bringing in any damn money. So you need to go on and take your ass to New York and do that play. And we talk about that all the time. You know, those moments. Yes. You know, of when I told him for the first time that I had the most horrific credit. Yeah. And I was about to cry. I said my credit score was 500. And I kept that as a secret because he was so organized and together and responsible, you know. And I said, Julius, I have to tell you something.

1:14:28He said, OK, V, go ahead. Tell me. I said, Julius, I have bad credit. And he said, I knew your black ass had bad credit from the moment I met you. I could tell by the way you dressed and everything, you were all over the damn place. That's okay. I know you're starting to cry. Come over here. Reuse my credit. Don't worry about it. I knew your black ass had bad credit. And that was it. Wow. Moments like that. Of levity. Yes, levity. Levity of. Safety. Safety of connection. Yes. You know, the freedom that I had to tell him I had bad credit. But also how he helped me build from there. Yeah. That's the thing.

1:15:12Yeah. That was my big thing. I finally found it. Someone who makes your life better. That's love. I think so. Yeah. That's what a healthy relationship looks like. And a tight ass.

1:15:27To end our convo today, what's the best thing about being in your 60s? It's the next decade up for me. And I mean, I've been loving my 50s more than my 40s and more and more and more. What are you loving about your 60s? In your 60s, your life is yours. That's the best part of it. Your life is yours. You realize that, you know, it's a quote that it's been running through my mind is, I know it's sort of morbid, But on your last day on earth, the definition of hell is your last day on earth. Who you became meets the person you could have become. I feel that that's 60s, man. The 60s is I'm going to become that woman because all that bullshit that I was told in the past that, you know, I have to make a certain amount of money or to be smart enough or pretty enough or thin enough or whatever.

1:16:31None of that means shit. Yeah. My life right now is about who I love, who loves me, and what I leave behind. That's it. It is clean. And it's given me a certain level of bravery, too. Now, if I could put some hormones in there, that would be beautiful. That's amazing. It makes me really look forward to what's ahead. Yeah, well, yeah. It's the other stuff too, but we won't talk about that. We won't talk about that. Let's, yeah, we'll deal with that when it comes. Viola Davis, it means so much that you did this. Thank you. I mean, thank you for being here today and for talking to me and for doing the show.

1:17:17I just absolutely adore you and your work. Well, I love you too. And I'd love to move in with you and your husband. It won't be weird. I'll just be a roommate. but don't go into the attic and don't eat the saltine crackers because you may get the baseball bat on your head don't steal the crackers I'm sorry I'm in your attic and I'm sorry I steal your husband's saltines but I get hungry up there but I want to listen to the two of you thank you so much for coming it really means a lot thank you Amy thank you so much Viola you're incredible and so good at what you do and it was so wonderful to talk to you thank you for stopping by for this polar plunge one person we didn't get a chance to talk to Viola about that I know she highly reveres and was deeply influenced by was the actress Cicely Tyson and so I just wanted to say her name here because I know Viola has spoken about her and got to work with her on many projects including in How to Get Away with Murder but do yourself a favor and if you haven't seen Cicely Tyson's work it spans an incredible amount of time in American history.

1:18:27She lived to 96 and many of us got to know her when she played Kunta Kinte's mother in Roots. But Cicely at that point had been working on the stage for a very long time and she's just been in an incredible wide variety of television in movies and is a really terrific actress and was one of our Hollywood legends. So check her stuff out, I guess. Plunge into Cicely Tyson and her work. And Viola Davis, we love you. We can't wait to see what you're doing next. So thanks so much for joining us and see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler.

1:19:16The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Alea Zanaris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in. With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com.

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