The DFK Story I Haven’t Told — Until Now

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1:55Be motherhood prepared and shop Frida at Amazon, Target, and Walmart today. So you've heard me talk about deeply feeling kids and our deeply feeling kids approach, but I promise you, you haven't heard this. A lot of you have asked me to speak more about my own personal experience, parenting my deeply feeling kid before I had a sense that she was a deeply feeling kid. what my journey was like in the stages where I had no idea what was going on, when I felt completely in the dark, when I felt like something was wrong with my kid, something was wrong with me, everything that, yes, ended up leading to this deeper understanding, this new approach, this whole deeply feeling kid program, and so much more before the kind of real personal stuff.

2:44I asked you the specific questions you wanted answered and boy, did you deliver. So I'm joined by Brooke on my team. She's been with me for a long time. She's a producer on this podcast. And she's going to ask me some of kind of the hardest, most personal questions. And I am really looking forward to sharing this part of my story with you. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this.

3:26Hi, Becky. Hi, Brock. I'm so excited to be here today and do things a little bit different. Kind of pull back the curtain on your own experience parenting a deeply feeling kid. All that's come from it since. and before we dive in for anyone who's newer or less familiar with the term deeply feeling kid can you just give a quick recap what is a deeply feeling kid yeah i mean this really this term came up because like i had my first kid and i don't want to make it seem like it was all easy like tantrums the whole thing that happens with you know one-year-olds two-year-olds they want things they melt down all that was happening but i felt pretty good about how i was showing up and how i'd hold boundaries and how i'd connect and validate while holding the boundary and it's not like I did that and he ever said, that was really helpful.

4:07Thank you. Never. But all I can say is like the arc, the arc arc. Like it was like, okay. And then he did start to calm down and I sensed it was working. Not because he didn't have a tantrum and not because he calmed down right away. But I felt like I am giving you something you need right now and it will just take some time to fully show up. I knew that was happening. In my private practice, I was doing a lot of this work. I was coming up with new ideas at the time. And parents like, this is amazing. I'm trying this. You're right. It's so much better than timeouts. And I'm not punishing, but behavior is changing faster.

4:38All the things. And then there were like this subset of parents. And it wasn't insignificant. Who'd say something very different. It's making everything worse. Like it helps with one of my kids, not the other. And I have to be honest, like the back of my head, the first thought was like, I think you're doing it wrong. Like you're just not doing as well as I would do it. But like, let's roll with the punches. And you know me, like I love creating new ideas. So I loved the struggle of like, oh, that's not working. Let's try this. Let's try this. Okay. Then I had my second kid. You know that moment when you like look back and you're like, wow, I really regret like a lot of my life.

5:14Like I was like, I want to go back. That was that moment. I was like, I am doing all the things I did with my first. I am doing it the same way, the right way. And this child from the start, I mean, it was so clear, so early, like did not want to take in what I had to offer. And then I started to think with this child, like about all these sessions I was having. And then the craziest part where I was really connecting it is I had started to see a lot of like, I don't want to say the same type, everyone's different, but like these adults in my private practice who everything was different and unique.

5:52And there were so many similar themes like, okay, these, the adults who like felt very empty inside. And that's not what they said, but really were, you know, looking for relationships to be close with people, but then things got too close and they would push them away. And there was like, you know, almost this social paranoia. People are out to get me. And I was like, oh my goodness, those adults were these kids of the parents who were telling me this stuff isn't working. And now I have one of these kids. Oh my goodness. And like, it was a painful time, but I want to be honest it was like a little bit of this like intellectually exciting time because I was like I am seeing these puzzle pieces and and the thing I kept saying about my child is everyone had names she's so dramatic so difficult she's so obstinate she's so um defiant right and I just kept the word just came up I was like she is so deeply feeling because people would say she freaks out about things other people don't freak out about and that's maybe the lgi least generous interpretation i would say like it's not to say i don't have moments of saying that to other people she freaks out about the ridiculous things of course and then my calm moments i'd say like okay well nobody comes into the world being like i can't wait to screw over my parents just gonna give them a hard time like if she freaks out about things other kids don't freak out about and the freakouts are more intense and last longer her bucket of like things that just feel like too much to manage in my body must fill up more quickly which means she does take more like these are kids who like parents are not making it up i'm gonna look at camera you are not making it up you are not crazy i want to say that because i felt crazy for a time like you are not making it up you're not crazy your kid does take in more from the world.

7:45They feel things more intensely. Therefore, their kind of bucket fills up more quickly. Therefore, there's more pressure at terms of the explosiveness with which it comes out in a moment when you're like, I think I just gave my kid a gift and that set off an explosion. I think I gave them the thing they wanted and the color they wanted, like WTF. And so they explode more easily, more often, more intensely. They also, which is like just inconvenient duality, they also push away help when you, and they need help. You see them. These are not calm kids who are saying, I'd like a moment to myself. No, no, no.

8:22These are kids who are in an animal threat state. And you're like, I just know in my soul, even if they're saying, get away from me, my soul says like, yeah, you're not making good decisions, but everything you try to do from the goodness of your heart and even from the intellect of your brain, they like slam the door in your face. And so there's this conflict and this struggle. And so I'll pause now. I know you have other questions, but I would say that as an intro, that is a deeply feeling kid. Great. That's all we need to know. Move on.

8:52We hear so many terms, deeply feeling kids, highly sensitive kids, even oppositional or defiant kids. Are these just different labels for the same thing or are there differences between them? You know, for me, when I struggle to ask a question, it's often I'm like, I feel like there's a different, like better upgraded question. Upgrade me. Okay. I don't know if this is right, actually. And so you can then interrupt me, but I'm just going to say what's on my mind. I feel deeply conflicted about labels in general. Okay. That's not to say I don't believe in label that doesn't mean I don't believe in diagnosis.

9:31We like to hear people say one thing and that's not what I'm saying. I say, I feel deeply conflicted. Here's why. A label, a term, even a diagnosis, which deeply feeling kids is not a diagnosis, but anything that like says, oh, that's the term. Okay. On one hand, it can be deeply validating and helpful. Oh, this is a thing. Making it up. Like there are other people like my kid or like me, if there's a name for this. That is so beautiful and so helpful. And in some cases, in some cases, some of the time, it helps you get the type of support you need. Because when you have a term to describe these constellation of things, then you can communicate to other people.

10:16And if there are known ways that are helpful to that thing, there's a good match. Okay, so that's on one side. I believe everything I said. Here's another thing I believe. terms, diagnoses, labels can be extremely unhelpful because they can box you in, because they can make us all say things like, this thing won't work because my kid is Y. My kid is Y so they can't do X. And now all of a sudden, instead of a term being empowering and helpful. My kid is the term. It's like there's no differentiation. That is all of them. It's no longer, this is what it is. It can no longer, instead of it being a really helpful lens to try to understand your kid, it becomes the truth of everything, which can make us limit the types of resources or the types of support that might be helpful.

11:14Okay. So all this to say deeply feeling kid, highly sensitive, all these terms. To me, what I would say to a parent is a term, a diagnosis, whatever it is, it is as helpful as it allows you to enter into a world of better understanding your kid. I tend to think that any term or understanding of something that makes us do this, and for people listening who can't see me, I'm like narrowing my range. I'm putting blinders on, okay? That is not as helpful as an understanding that makes us do this. And again, for anyone listening, widening my aperture, okay? Widening my aperture is the equivalent of being curious.

11:58Oh, what might be going on? Oh, how might something need a tweak? knowing what I know about my kid, not kind of adding rigidity and kind of pushing curiosity to the side. So what I would say to parents in terms of these kids, I do believe these kids need different things. Mostly they need to be really, really understood. It's amazing how often the best intervention we have is more deeply understanding our deeply feeling kids. people think what do I do what do I say how do I do this situation I promise you as soon as you actually understand the situation with your kid you won't even be saying what I'm doing because you have a type of relief and groundedness because the thing you were missing it wasn't a strategy it was understanding so what I would say to parents whatever term whatever label allows you to enter into a world of more deeply understanding your kid is the thing you should take on.

13:04And there can also be multiplicity. Like somehow, you know, my kid is X. They're Y. Maybe they're both. Maybe it's different parts. Maybe you get something from both. People say to me all the time, you know, the deeply feeling kid, your stuff, your program, the ongoing stuff, it's changed my life. But I have to admit to you, there's a part of it that doesn't work. Admit. First of all, let's upgrade that word to share. I love it. There's something that would work. Amazing. Your kid is unique. You have a new set of glasses that brings you relief and understanding and groundedness. And through that new set of glasses, you are further empowering yourself to know your kid even better than someone else could.

13:39That is good inside at its best. So what I would say to a parent is like, the first question isn't, is it highly sensitive or deeply feeling kid or ADHD? And again, those things can be part of the process and can get you services or courses or evaluations or therapy. There's so many things. But I think the first question isn't which one. It's actually how do I start to better understand my kid? And can a label be a part of that? And then yes, let's go from there. Okay. Take us back. Your DFK was your second kid. When did you first realize that your second kid was different from your first? What were the early signs or behaviors that caught your attention?

14:22I want to give you the first sign that at the time I recognized that the first sign and now that I have such a better understanding of her I'll actually tell you something that was so much earlier than that that if I had the glasses on I've been like here we go here we go buckle up it's gonna be a different journey and it's gonna be a journey that teaches me so much more about myself in a way than my first kid did in a way okay so I would say the early signs at the time was kind of this zero seemingly zero to 60 massive reactions to seemingly, at least in my mind, very null things. I'll give you a bunch of examples.

15:09Just literally the meltdowns and tantrums around age 18 months to three. I was just like, I remember being in the bathroom and I think what what is wrong with my child like actually I'm gonna say that differently something is wrong with my child I felt conviction in it which was so terrifying to me like when I I know for me I've learned this a lot about myself when I have uncertainty I go doomsday but I also go conviction like it I'm like but it's true like I'm so convicted in my worst case scenario something is wrong with my like something is wrong and and I think the flip side of something is wrong with me.

15:48It's just not maybe the voice we allow ourselves to hear as often. This was there for me too. Something's wrong with me. Something's wrong with my child and I'm like an unfit parent. And so in a way, my earliest sign maybe was these like massive tantrums about tiny things, like a bag of pretzels I remember bringing as a snack and I'm like patting myself on the back. I remember this like pickup at like one of the earliest school moments. And I I was like, I remembered a snack today. Like, um. Come on. Round of applause. Round of applause. Remember the snack, right? They're all hungry after school.

16:23They're like, sticks? Pretzel sticks. Not the like pretzel little pretzely shape that they usually do. Okay. Brought the stick. Opens the bag. And I think there were like two that were broken. I can't even remember the rest of the day because let me just tell you, it was like I picked her up and stabbed her in the heart. the vitriol the anger the the the animalistic that's like for me it was animalistic it was like like it's trying to like scratch me it was like I had like just attacked her like baby cub and she was like fighting back from that it felt felt existential meanwhile going into that moment I was like very proud of myself so the gap between me feeling like I was doing a good job and then watching the impact of the outcome was just so wide and honestly for me Brooke you know like I have a decent tolerance for that gap like with my first kid I knew like I'm doing the right thing I'm setting a boundary he's still going to be upset he's not going to say thank you I really felt like I actually had a decent tolerance for that gap this gap was so wide right just the other very early sign was surprises happy surprises not like hey i have a surprise for you i'm gonna dump a bucket of ice water on your face like we're going to the doctor for a shot yeah surprise no i remember taking a day off work or the morning to be the mystery reader in her class they start the class we have a mystery reader today this person has blue as their favorite color and the kids might be like oh it's my parents that my parent okay and mystery reader was a thing we talked about mystery reader okay i never read there was no reading of the book there was no reading the book okay and again the gap like i took off my morning from work i you know i had to reschedule all my patients i picked out her favorite book i showed up i mean again it was like i did something to her right so different i mean forget the like yay mommy's her.

18:33No, no, I had to carry her out. I mean, it was like embarrassing. I was, I was angry at her. Like, why are you doing this to me? This is my good mom moment. I carved out time. I'm showing up for you. This is supposed to be a core memory and I'm carrying you out while you're scratching me. And while I feel like at the time, everyone's looking at me like, what the F is wrong? Yeah. Okay. Now the thing I just want to go back to early, this is a whole nother conversation, but breastfeeding I had a whole struggle with and yada, yada, yada. We could save that for another moment. Anyway, that was so painful for me with her.

19:07It was like an even harder thing than with my son. We did a, you know, formula feeding, all the things. Fine. I swear to you. Okay. I don't know if I've ever told you this. The bottle feeding with this child, if I look back on it, it was the earliest moment. It's like, oh my goodness. Okay. Cause it's all about for these kids control and being able to take in the good things a parent has to offer they're so conflicted about this she would not take the bottle if she could see my face stop i know do you understand how i okay this is how i would feed her this is her i'm gonna pretend like this leaning back looking at stop it that's how i fed her okay for anyone listening like picture your baby's back on your chest looking out with your arm wrapped around just hoping they do not turn their face no and then get get ready for this because this is my husband i always talk this is everything we were idiots not be like okay okay i remember a night she was so conflicted she lost weight you You know how they're like, baby, it's okay.

20:17She lost weight. She refused to eat because it was hard to get in food and never have the food. You're contorting your body. Literally. Okay. Remember this. So I was just like last feeding, put her to bed, sit on the couch, watch a show with my husband. I go get in the bottle. And this is a moment as a parent, you're like, I got it in. It's like she turns and sees me at the very end. she literally vomits the in higher bottle eye contact on to my face like i and if my husband is here he would say i think that was one of like becky's lowest moments of motherhood i and and it's like so beautifully disturbingly poetic like you want to give me the thing it feels too close.

21:11I have to feel like it's under my control and on my timeline to take in, to titrate all the conflictual feelings I have about being close to people. And as soon as I realize you might've done it to me and I did not have agency, I will take all of the things inside me and in the most violent aggressive feeling ways vomit it onto you and when I think about the meltdowns and the way they feel the animalistic and the scratching like it honestly it is literally the same exact thing but with emotions and not with formula. So I guess right away, right away. My first time. How did you manage to keep a loving bond and stay connected with her during this, during these early years when it was so hard?

22:10You know, I'm pausing just because there were periods when I didn't feel like I had that. Like if I'm honest, like again, maybe I have to shift the question to like did you always feel this long you know this strong loving bond and how did you manage the periods when you didn't maybe that's the more fair question um that night I like descended into like this like pit it it literally felt like I am going to reject the good things you have to give me and your love my love like I think especially when you're early in your parenting journey, like your love and your support, all of it feels wrapped up in sleep and feeding, right?

22:55Like, and especially with feeding, it feels like your baby is saying to you either you're doing a good job, we are connected and I love you by taking in what you have to give or you're not doing a good job and I will not take in what you have to give. And it almost feels like they're saying, I'm not taking in what you have to give because what you have is earmuffs like shit. I'm not taking that shit in. You are shit. Like it feels like your baby's saying that to you, even though it feels crazy because you're like, well, they're not saying they're a baby, but it feels like that. So how do you maintain a loving bond?

23:27I think step one, when I remember those early years before I understood it, because again, I didn't even realize that was like part of this thing, is this is not quite an answer to your question, but it's going through my arc, was just like letting myself feel confused and like feel down and feel rejected without layering on so many additional levels of like awfulness and blame and shame. Like I articulated to you, I had some, but I do remember and, you know, I did. I think I was lucky. I had some people in my life who also didn't quite understand it, but would just say to me like, there's nothing more powerful than saying like, that makes sense.

24:08That makes sense. That sounds like an awful night. I think people are so afraid to say that to us because they think it's gonna spiral us deeper when they say that to us, it's like they're handing us a container for the feeling. So it doesn't have to just continue into an abyss. They're like, here's a container, pour it into this glass. And then it like can hold. Something I love that you say is we can't change the hard. We can change the alone. That really reminds me of that. I think that that was probably step one. It was just like the crying, but like, what the heck? I don't understand this.

24:39And like different people in my life being like, yes, that is true right now. They're probably saying that is true right now. It's like the the version of yet we all love. You don't understand it yet. That is true right now. How it feels today feels so true. And that's, I find the hardest part of parenting, but definitely early parenting is that whatever's happening in the moment when it's hard, it feels like the truth forever. You feel like you're never going to get another chance. Like that's how it's always going to be. If it didn't feel like that, it would inherently be copable because you're like, all right, it's a day.

25:06It just felt like the whole truth. But I think between people, again, not leaving me alone and having like a little more hope. And then I think I realized early on, like my, maybe that's, this is going to be a journey. This is going to be a journey. Like, I don't understand this right now. Something is real. It reminds me of like, honestly, for these kids sometimes just like believing before you understand is the order of operations we need. We all think we need to understand something before we like believe it or trust it. But I think like reversing that with these kids, like I trust there's something tricky here.

25:52I don't understand it yet. I will. For now, I just know this is like real and it probably doesn't mean my kid is crazy. It doesn't mean I'm crazy. It doesn't mean my kid is broken. It doesn't mean I'm broken. The truth of it is like a little smaller, though, like also painful, which is like, this is different. This is hard. My connection to this child is going to like be a lot more rollercoastery than maybe my other kid. And like, if that doesn't have to mean that I'm broken or my kid is broken, then maybe I can tolerate it even if I grieve it a little bit. Right. that makes it sound like very wrapped up with a bow.

26:32It isn't. But maybe in a way what I'm saying is like allowing yourself to feel like this feels different. This isn't what I expected. This journey might look different. And I think I'm going to understand it more and more over time is ironically the thing that helped me have like a stronger bond over time.

27:02I have to imagine that parenting a deeply feeling kid before you even had the words for deeply feeling kid had to take a toll on your partnership. No, not at all. Next question. No, no, not me. Yes. Is that is that the question? A lot of question mark to the end of that partnership. Partnership. ship um yeah you know it's really interesting I mean my deeply feeling kid is now 10 a decade right it's actually so crazy that that feeding thing happened like a decade ago in my body like I can I literally know every single detail about that night the feeling where I was like everything that happened um but it's been a decade and and just I don't want to say the end of the story because again parenting is a journey right um but like it's just amazing what what a different place were in right um and how it's led to this like whole movement you know and and me feeling i think healed through talking about it and developing an approach that hasn't existed before and through doing that and putting that out there having so many more people help me better understand and help me it's just been like a healing journey for me so my partnership you know my husband and i were actually just talking about this the other night because there's something about age 10 that like I think has made us reflect on like oh 10 you know um he said something to me really interesting that I hadn't ever considered before because if he was in this room what he would say to you and you know my husband is he would just say like oh was I on board with the way Becky approached it like no every bone in my body every time was like this is insane we have to punish her She can't get away with this.

28:47Oh, no, we're back here again. How are we letting her get away with this? Right? And we were talking about it. But you know what's interesting? It didn't take that much of a toll on our partnership. Okay? And it's not because we have a perfect marriage. No. Okay? but I I was so after the hardest stages of like the first two years and I was kind of just like in this black hole like when I started to be like okay Becky wait like one of the things I do is understand things one of the things I do is let myself not know like I actually think one of the things that makes me like if I'm gonna say like a good therapist is I am actually very comfortable hearing something from someone and being like I have no idea what this is about and then just like because I'm allowing myself not to know, I can just like pull threads and be like, I think that's important.

29:41Tell me more. Okay. And then like, and I still don't know, but I just feel like the right detective almost. Yeah. Like, so I was like, I'm going to, I can use that like, right. And so I really did it. And I knew the thing for her that was so big was shame. Like shame makes our vulnerable feelings explosive. These kids almost have shame. She couldn't take in my help from the start. It's like she was born with shame or something. I don't know right so what happened in my partnership is she'd have these moments and my my husband would he would in the moment this is he would lose it right like you can't talk to me that way and and I would do the thing you know that like we always do in those hard moments the containment I would and I would do it with conviction because I was just like I'm doing it I was talking about this with him last night because he'd in those same moments just start like yelling out punishments I don't know something and I would just take the lead and do it what he said to me the other the other night is he's like you know you never came to me and like tried to convince me so much that like I had to do the thing you were doing interesting like it never was even like like it wasn't like you talked to me about how you thought about it you talked me how you understood it you took the lead in those hard moments but I just been thinking about this a lot because I I hear from all the time, from people all the time.

31:00How do you get your partner on board? So I asked him, like, how did I get you on board? You know what he said to me? I'm not on board now. That's what he said. He was, get me. I'm not on board. What do you mean? I was like, oh, you're not, you know? And he's like, no. You know, I'm not on board. He's like, you know, and we talked about how his childhood, I have punishment in my bones. Like, are you serious? I would never have been allowed to do this. Like, all the things that everyone says. He's like, you just kind of, in the moment, like, you just ignored me. but like not in a mean way and then when you do the thing with her it also gave me time to like and he's like i don't know and this is what i'm really curious from parents i hope they reach out to us after or comment he's like whenever i got calm after the moment had passed where she'd had this huge thing in my calm wise moment i never said to you we have to punish the crap out of her we have to take away her ipad he's like also there were all these glimmers of moments where like I'd see her in this animalistic state and then you do this thing and the way it always ended was her like so vulnerable crying almost like this little puppy in your in your lap and I'd be like oh that's interesting something you say that I love is my kids get Becky not Dr.

32:14Becky can you please tell us about a mistake you've made along the way um you know I think my answer to this question is I think my my best ideas that I have either come from learnings of working with families so many learnings of working with adults and figuring out their arc and what happened and and reflecting on like the things I like oh my goodness wish I could go back and do differently right so anytime anyone hears me talking about something and they think like oh that Dr. Becky sounds so smart. I hope they say after she must have really messed that up. She must have, the smarter the idea, the bigger the mess up.