GMH Hotels: The $35.7 Billion Side of Hospitality Nobody Talks About

0:26Sarah Dandashy: Good morning. Good morning, Sarah. Good to see you. Good to see you too. That song gets me every time, especially when she's like, woo, woo, woo. I'm not going to do it. Sorry. That's why I don't sing and I just talk. Very well done. Very well done. Oh, no. Oh, my goodness. Well, we've got a huge show today. We've got a special guest. We've got lots of great topics to talk about. But let's just do a quick recap because we had a busy week. And we actually got to hang out together in person, which is very rare. But it might be more of a regular thing. It was a lot of fun. First we started, I had my hot potty mentor breakfast, which Sarah was an invitee.

1:05And we had a great breakfast with a lot of leaders and developers and chefs. And what do you think of the breakfast? Do you think it went pretty well? The first one?

1:12Sarah Dandashy: It was great. It was. But first of all, thank you for allowing me to attend. Can you imagine if I like, can I come? And you're like, no, you are not allowed to attend. Yes, I know. No, it was it was fantastic. It was really wonderful. It's this reminder. I mean, first of all, Steve, I have to say this. Kudos to you. You are so plugged in in Miami. And to meet all of these different professionals from different aspects of the hospitality industry coming together. You know, we didn't – nothing was recorded. It was just – we were able to have just this wonderful conversation on a Friday morning for two hours, which, by the way, the general consensus was we need to make this a longer thing.

1:54Sarah Dandashy: So that was fantastic. um so i'm glad to hear that you enjoyed it i thought it went well and i'll tell you one thing i learned that i'm gonna do from now on is i realized i never no one introduced themselves at the beginning with like oh this is what i do in my position correct we had to interview the person next to us about what they like and where they like traveling to and what they're doing to and all these connections started happening and then at the end when we introduced our titles because we did at the very end people like wow you're coo of this company and you're this big developer and you're this person wow this chef would have been intimidating i think at the beginning if we had started that way so i like very well done and then the other quick thing we also had an adventure so since i was in south florida um we steve was like have you ever been to the everglades and i'm like uh no um and so we went steve took me on a little tour of the Everglades but the best part was as we just started in we went and we hit like this nice little little like I don't know a little divot of water splashed up all over the car he brought his his new puppy and alas there was a flat tire and we had to I feel like this was a team building exercise team building exercise for sure and listeners and viewers this is not like you know uh the public National Park.

3:13This was a back trail in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3:16Sarah Dandashy: No, we were in the middle of nowhere. No self-service. No AAA was coming. No. So we got out of there. We changed a giant 75-pound tire, got out of there, and still, you know what I'm proud of? We still continued on with the tour. We didn't turn around. We did. It was great. It was great. By the way, and for the record, that was actually the very first tire that I have participated in changing, so I'm so glad I was able to do that at this phase of life. You're a great helper. You're a great helper. We made it happen. We survived. So if anybody wants to tour the Everglades, make sure to come on Turks tours.

3:43We leave every other Saturday.

3:47Sarah Dandashy: Anyway. Oh my gosh. So that's our quick recap. We had an exciting time. We had to just acknowledge that, but why don't we go, you want to do our first little mention here, since you are so wonderful at reading. I would love to. And I want to, can I say one more thing before? Because I'm so excited about this. I signed up for GrokBot, which is, you know, SpaceX's new AI. And I have a bunch of employees now, by the way, all AI employees that are currently working. And it's shocking. And remind me, listeners and viewers, if we have some more time, I want to share this with everyone because I just started using it Sunday night and now I'm obsessed.

4:18I'm on day three.

4:19Sarah Dandashy: Okay. Okay. We're going to have to talk about that. All right. But we got an important joke, everybody. Okay. And this episode is brought to you by StayFi. StayFi helps short-term rental operators build direct guest relationships through branded Wi-Fi portals, email marketing, and guest data tools that turn one-time bookers into repeat guests. Start growing your direct booking revenue today at stayfi.com backslash good morning hospitality. And that's stayfi.com backslash good morning hospitality. Oh, that's a good one. Oh, that's so good. Oh, my gosh. That's great. Anyway, thank you for that. And now I'm excited because it is very rare when we have a guest on our show.

5:03Sarah Dandashy: So, you know, when we have one, it's definitely it's going to be great. And today we have got on Jason Gamble, who is the president and CEO of ARDA. And it'll be, I'm excited. So I don't know. And by the way, for those that don't know, ARDA is the American Resort Development Association. So without further ado, come on, Jason. Let's bring him in here. He can talk better about himself. Let's do it, Jason. Exactly. Oh, there we go. Good morning. Good morning, Jason. Thank you so much for joining us. Oh, thank you for having me on it. I don't know how I'm going to be alligator stories, but we'll try.

5:42Sarah Dandashy: Just be you. Just be you. No, it'll be great. So I know we gave a little intro, Jason, but how about you tell us like maybe the 30 second download. What is ARDA? What should people know about it before we get some questions with you? Great place to start. So ARDA is the trade association. We are the voice of the timeshare vacation ownership industries. We're headquartered in Washington, D.C., but we're involved in all things such as putting on meetings, doing research and advocacy efforts at the state, local and federal levels for the timeshare and vacation ownership industries. And happy to be here today to talk a little bit about the timeshare and vacation ownership industry.

6:20All right. I love it. I know we have some set questions, which I'm excited about. Maybe some stats for us. Is it growing? Is it an industry that's growing? Is it shrinking? How is it going with the timeshare industry? Yeah, I want to say we're doing both. We're growing in sales numbers and volume and number of owners, which is great to see. There are 10 million timeshare owner families here in the United States. Last year, we were a$10.8 billion sales industry, which is one way that we measure the way that we're growing. We're shrinking a little bit in the way that we have consolidation in the industry.

6:52And so, but that's an exciting thing. But when we take a look at where we are as an industry overall, we have an industry that has a 92 % owner satisfaction rate. 92 % of all owners say they're happy with their timeshare ownership experience. We see 80 % occupancy across the board, which is a great number. Some jurisdictions, if you go to places like Hawaii, you'll see a well over 90 % all year round. So you're an industry that's bringing a consistent visitor. It's an industry that continues to resonate. and maybe most exciting is that we see the new purchaser coming aboard. We see Gen Z and millennials now making up two-thirds of all new timeshare purchasers.

7:29So when you start looking at whether or not this is a product that will appeal to a younger generation, it tells us that we're in a very good spot. We see that resonating and we're excited about the future.

7:41Sarah Dandashy: Absolutely. That would also be interesting in that it can be, maybe it's a stat that you guys are working on, But especially as far as like Gen Z millennials, how many are, you know, getting maybe into their first, you know, timeshare for them, but they also grew up with that. You know what I mean? That it's like they have those fond memories with their parents, you know, as they were growing up, that they were always able to go to these, you know, their favorite places as a kid. And they're like, they wouldn't be able to provide that for their families now. You're like a commercial for us. I appreciate that.

8:13And that's exactly it. I mean, I look at my own kids who've grown up vacationing in timeshares. The one thing I've never heard a complaint about is people having too much space on vacation, right? I don't want extra bedrooms. I don't need a kitchen. I really don't want a living room. I'd rather have my kids piled into the bedroom with me too on vacation because that's just fantastic. When you look at what it has to offer, there's a reason why it resonates the younger generation, especially as you bring up because they're used to it. They're accustomed to it. they've been vacationing this way and they want to continue to vacation this particular lifestyle.

8:47Sarah Dandashy: I love it. I love it. So, well, you kind of touched on this a little bit. You talked about consolidation. So maybe we can kind of go into like our first kind of like topic with this. So Arta just watched travel and leisure pay$343 million for Yes And and Spinnaker and Hilton Grand Vacations absorb blue green before that. So what really is driving this consolidation wave? And then what does this also like? Can you break down what this means for the owners? We're now part of naturally a much bigger portfolio than the one that they bought into. So the transaction was a complex one, but a good one.

9:25And one we see with consolidation in our industry. It's a little bittersweet, but it's much more sweet than bitter. Bitter only sends the sense that there's so many independent developers that have been in this industry over the last two or three decades. Those people who produce great vacation memories for their owners, ones that had quality products, which is why it's exciting to see consolidation take place. Because you realize these larger hospitality brands like Hilton Grand Vacations, Marriott, you've got, like you mentioned, Hilton, Travel and Leisure, all see value at acquiring and growing through acquisition the same way they're also adding properties through organic growth.

10:03The organic growth way obviously takes a little bit more time. It's more capital intense to go ahead and acquire land, build it, develop it, and wait. But these acquisitions provide strategic value for travel and leisure. It provides inventory out in Maui, which as you well know, Maui inventory and properties and vacation properties are tough to come by in Maui. Yeah, a little limit. Yeah, yeah. It also has a lot of portfolios in the East Coast as well, Hilton Head in particular for travel and leisure. And the Diamond Resorts they added, or when the Diamond Resorts acquisition took place for Hilton Grand Vacations as well, which took place a couple of years before the Blue Green, and added another, they added a significant amount of properties and also a really exciting experiential and event platform, which really has sort of transformed our industry over the last 10 years.

10:54Sarah Dandashy: That's awesome. By the way, I just have to say, Like you just even mentioning Hilton Head is bringing up such fond memories for me when I was a kid. My aunt and uncle, they actually have a couple of timeshares and they had a timeshare in Hilton Head. And we would go every year kind of like around like the spring break time. And they'd also have like, you know, my uncle's a doctor and there would be also like a lot of doctors in their families. And the memories that I have, and I just like remember driving in like just so vivid that, again, it's like it's just that for me, it's all about what you're just like.

11:24Sarah Dandashy: the memories that you're able to create from it. And, and I mean, I mean, that's obviously more of the consumer side of things, but I just had to say a shout out to that because Hilton had a great destination, especially for something like this. It is. And what you point out to those memories, which is exciting for all these new owner families that are coming into the larger systems, the value for them will be more places to travel. And now you've got hundreds of resorts in the system. You have great hospitality brands that are managing it to bring you a consistent and quality experience. And one thing that's also exciting for all these owners, they're now going to be part of a loyalty program.

12:00And these large branded, hotel branded and hospitality branded developers are all linked in with hotel loyalty rewards points like Wyndham Rewards, Hilton Honors, or Bonvoy. These are great ways for them to be able to take their timeshare ownership, perhaps stay in a hotel, perhaps get an experience with it. They can access all these things. So So consolidation for these owners, for the most part, are going to be a really positive experience.

12:26Sarah Dandashy: Oh, that's great. That really maximizes the loyalty part. Sorry, sorry, Steve. No, no, it's good. You're asking good questions. I'm just a newbie, too. I've never stayed in a timeshare. I've never participated in one. I've always been a hotel guy, you know, starting to do some vacation rentals. What is the hook for timeshare now in the industry, right? Because there's so many places to stay, so many places to be visiting. Why do people go to that? You said a lot of younger people are now heading that direction. What is it? Yeah, this is, to me, if you take a look at what timeshare has to offer and when people are usually hotel guests and what they're looking for, many times this is a product, as you would expect, that appeals to families, appeals to people traveling in larger groups.

13:06It's also appealing to a younger generation because of the destinations that are being offered. Later this month, we're going to be at the Skip Global Forum in New York City. There's about 15 or so timeshare resorts in New York City. I was able to stay actually in Midtown, great property in Midtown, where I had a two bedroom, two bath unit, 900 square feet, full kitchen, absolutely amazing, incredible. Again, traveling with my kids, which is great to have them in a separate room. And when you look at traveling this way, where I look at what I pay for a hotel. And to me, when I started doing that comparison over time, I realized that vacation ownership can work better for my family.

13:46Also, Steve, you can rent a timeshare. So if you really want to try it, I might even know a person who can help you out. I know someone now I can ask. But assuming you wanted to or anyone wants to, you can rent a timeshare. And that's a great way to experience it, to understand what it's like to stay at a resort that has all the resort amenities, that has the space that you're looking for. Not only a great place to go home base, but as you find out as an owner, you find out you have so much access to incredible experiences that really make your vacations kind of more memorable. and I think we're what consumers are looking for today.

14:19Sarah Dandashy: I love that you bring that up too, because I stay at a lot of Marriott properties. I also stay at a lot of Hilton properties, also IHG, all the rest. But there have been multiple times that I've been in different destinations, both city, as you mentioned, even like New York City, or obviously more vacation-feeling destinations, be it tropical destinations, et cetera. And I've seen those options on both Marriott and Hilton. And I'm like, oh, that might be, you know, that could be kind of cool to try and stay there for just a little bit of a different experience. So I love that that's also another way that's kind of getting those properties maybe introduced to a newer demographic, you know.

15:03Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mentioned IHG, their holiday in club. You can find their properties there, choice hotels. You'll find Westgate properties, blue green properties. There's no doubt when you're looking, and I often tell people this, when it comes to, say, third-party rental sites or, Steve, as you were mentioning, maybe short-term rentals. If you go to a short-term rental booking engine and type in, I'd like a two - or three-bedroom resort-style accommodation, some of the first things that are going to pop up are timeshare resorts. Whether individuals who are listening there or developers themselves are listening to rent.

15:34So you're going to find them all over the place and realize what you're getting is that professional management, the more space, multiple bedrooms, kitchens, washer, dryer, which can come in handy every once in a while. So especially if you're out in the mud changing a muddy tire, you might need to wash your clothes afterwards. But if you look at it, there's a great advantage that you could find, say, at a time share. You don't have to keep a dry clean, Steve. It's a great thing. It's interesting. I was at Disney just recently, and there's a whole separate area of Animal Kingdom Lodge for Disney vacation members.

16:03and I'm like, what goes on behind those walls? Because I can't get past the door that have special areas just for them.

16:08Sarah Dandashy: Different perks. This helps me understand. There's a lot of great things going on. There's also a couple of challenges here and we want to make sure we ask those things too. In the financing area, the loan loss provisions are starting to go up across the industry right now. So I love hearing your point of view, what is actually happening on the financing side? Are owners really struggling to keep up with the payments? Are developers tightening underwriting? What's actually happening there? We look at really the numbers are all within historical norms. And if we go back in history, what's been interesting to watch about the performance of timeshare paper, for instance, let's go back to what we're about ready to celebrate, right, the 25th anniversary of 9-11.

16:47When we look at what happened after 9-11, for instance, and the issues that took place afterwards, people kept traveling. People love to travel when they believe they are owning their second home. That's really when people buy in timeshare. They believe their second homeowners more than they are anything. And they're determined to travel and determined to keep their timeshare. During 2008 and 2009, the great economic crisis, we saw people defaulting on home mortgages before they defaulted on their timeshares. They wanted to keep their vacations. And even during the pandemic, we saw people not only continue to be interested in being owners.

17:26This statistic usually kind of surprises me. As I mentioned earlier, we were at$10.8 billion in sales as an industry in 2025. In 2020, there was$5 billion worth of timeshare sold. If you think about that for a minute, in times where people weren't even allowed to travel, weren't even allowed to go to their timeshare, they were still seeing so much value. We saw sort of revenge purchasing before revenge traveling took place. People were really interested. They wanted to commit to traveling even more than ever. So for us, we continue to see a resiliency because at the end of the day, today is a little different than it was 20 years ago.

18:03We no longer have to convince people it's important to travel. People are traveling. Gen ZM owners, they're traveling. I mean, I don't care what they say. They're taking their time off. They're traveling. That lends nicely to vacation, to timeshare or vacation ownership, being part of their overall vacation portfolio. It may not be all of it, but it would be part of it.

18:23Sarah Dandashy: Yeah, I love that. And again, that's a big thing is that being part of it because there's so many different ways to travel. But again, to be able to be a nice, wonderful option and whether it's creating those memories or a way to discover a new destination too. So, Steve. I was going to say too, there's some other things too. Like, you know, we were talking about, you know, the way sometimes timeshares are portrayed on TV and shows is not the best. And there are some things that, you know, hopefully you can clear up. I know there's some things that people talk about, like exit scams and resale fraud and those things that be going on.

19:00Can you touch on that a little bit? Because sometimes people think, I buy this and I can't get out. and then you see about these scams that you're reading about in the papers, which doesn't help the industry. What can you share with us that kind of clears some of that up? Yeah, we're definitely working on getting the word out about what today's modern-day timeshare product is. And that's something that's taking some time because you're right. There is an impression. Most people, I think, when they think of timeshare, they might think of the sales and marketing process more than they think of the product, the experiences, the brands that are part of it, and all that you get along with it.

19:31And that reputation back in the 90s, early 2000s was probably somewhat earned. And we're looking right now at how we talk about those big brands being part of the business now. They're looking for a repeat customer. They're paying attention to people who have a lot of brand equity. When you're talking about Hilton, you're talking about the Marriott family. You're looking at these brands that the vacation ownership segment, now the stewards of these reputations and the brands and the customer. So there's a much different focal point today than there was in the past on the customer and making sure the customer is taken care of from the beginning of their journey to the end.

20:10And that end, which you talk about sort of exit and the issues that we've seen, that's the last 10 years or so is that you see the baby boomer generation aging. More people are asking that question, what do I do with my timeshare if my timeshare no longer fits my vacation needs? And there are companies out there that do a lot of advertising, a lot of people who say they can help out, people who they want to get you out of your timeshare. One of the things that's important to note is that all of our major developers have programs that are there to help people if they find themselves at that point in their timeshare ownership lives.

20:42If they're not quite there or they just want to exit altogether, they can always rent it. You can always have a friend use it. You can transfer it to a friend or family member like any piece of real estate. So that's very attractive. It's what we're seeing a lot of those parents doing when they're taking their timeshares and handing them down to the younger next generation, younger generations who want to use it. But it's really important from a consumer protection standpoint. It's unfortunate that we do see these scams in our industry where people are promising something that's too good to be true.

21:11Promising that they can help people out or charge them thousands of dollars up front in order to be able to give them something that they can do for themselves. Because at the end of the day, it's the developer who's going to help them. It's the resort who's going to help them actually transfer the timeshare out of their name and back to the developer. So that's why we started a website called responsible exit dot com. And we also have another website called the TCPC, which stands for Timeshare Consumer Protection Center dot org. They're there to help people avoid those scams. They're there to give people practical tips to help them avoid somebody who's promising something that's too good to be true.

21:49And it's unfortunate that it's there. We work at the state and federal level from a legislative standpoint to try to put in great laws so there's great consumer protection so that way people have to back up their promises. That's something that you probably see in the travel industry all the time. When a deal pops up on your screen, when a call comes in, you see that and they're offering something that you know is just too good to be true. You've got to ask yourself the question, is this real? And never send money to somebody ahead of time for a service that you're waiting for them to perform.

22:18So to me, that's just one of those things where once you prepay for it and there's no guarantee the money sitting in somebody's bank account waiting for you, you could have problems.

22:27Sarah Dandashy: Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think that's a good reminder that obviously there's going to be those types of challenges in various aspects of the industries in general. So, but it's great that you, you've been so good as far as, as far as, as putting me, oh my God, I can't come up with my word. Sorry, I'm so early in the morning. But as far as putting the resources out there for individuals that do want to do their due diligence or maybe need some, some help or assistance if they feel like, oh, this, this maybe shouldn't be the way that I think it should be. So it's really great that you guys are, the word I was trying to say was proactive.

23:07Sarah Dandashy: So thank you for that. Well, for the proactive nature, Sarah, one of the things that's important to note, and this is one of these things where the business and the consumer sometimes is a little bit of misalignment. The business is selling a vacation product that's also a real estate interest for the most part in the United States. That's what allows it to be financed the way it's financed. It's a lot of things that's important from a regulatory standpoint that people are getting a real estate interest. They see it, though, as a vacation. I'm getting a prepaid vacation, which when you look at the numbers, 80 % of all time show owners today don't have a loan.

23:41So they're traveling just paying their maintenance fee every year. So for those folks, they're still very much invested. They still have a real estate interest, but at the end of the day, giving it back isn't just so simple as returning it. Again, there's options for them, but it's one of those things that's a nuance between where public perception is that this is a vacation product and the reality that it is at its base a real estate product. But the industry is doing much better and has continued to progress in offering options to owners and making sure they're taken care of, as I mentioned, through the time their buyers, to the time they decide that this no longer meets their vacation needs.

24:19Sarah Dandashy: This is great. Well, I have to say thank you, by the way, for taking the time to come on and just share a little bit more because again, and that's obviously what one of the big goals is of ARDA is to help educate, uh, you know, potential future consumers and, and just share with travelers different ways that they can. And I love how you said it. Um, another way of adding to their travel portfolio. And so you really kind of like, um, shed a lot of light on just the business of it, how it's maybe evolved over the last 20, 30, 40 plus years. So thank you again for taking the time to come on here for sure.

25:00Oh my gosh. Thank you for spending the time to educate, hopefully the folks who are listening today and watching about what this industry is and get a little more interested in it. If they have any more interest in it, they've got a couple of great websites. There's arda.org, but we also have a gotimesharing.com, which is a great place for Steve to go to find those places is where he may want to rent next. And for him to think about those things, you can learn all about what times here might be right for you. Yeah, I'm a newbie. You got me convinced to dip my toe in a little bit here, Jason. So I appreciate you joining us today.

25:31It means a lot that you came on and spent the time with us. And I'll definitely be in contact to see what you think is the best way to start.

25:38Sarah Dandashy: Definitely. Well, we'll be sure to have all of your details in the show notes for this show. So again, Jason, thank you so, so much. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Hope you have a great morning. All right. Thank you. Well, we will continue on. You know, I have to say that that was such a great and enlightening conversation with Jason. And yeah, when we get to have. I learned a lot because, you know, like I said, you know, sometimes portrayed not great in TV or movies and things like that. And I've never experienced it. I've never gone out and tried it. So I'm excited to try it now, especially after all the things that we learned today with Jason.

26:12He's got me convinced for sure.

26:14Sarah Dandashy: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, well, before we continue on. Yeah, listen, before we move on, Sarah. Yes. Let's give a quick shout out to our sponsor, Built. They're helping restaurants and hotel F &B teams better understand their guests and create more personalized experiences that drive repeat visits. If you care about loyalty and guest experience, which I know you do, Sarah, it's worth checking out. Head to joinbuilt.com backslash GMH. That's joinbuilt.com backslash GMH. amazing on to the show on to the rest well i know um we wanted to we we um it's it's always a little bit of a different format when we've got a guest on but i'm so glad that we got to do that deep dive but maybe we can make this sort of like a a rapid fire round yeah rapid quick ones yeah sure so this is interesting so ai generated tiktok videos are changing hotel marketing um so we talked before about TikTok Go.

27:12Sarah Dandashy: So for those that aren't familiar, TikTok Go is via TikTok where creators are basically able to monetize their hotel stays and their hotel content. But what's interesting is what's happening. You have probably so much to say about this is that they're finding a lot of properties are using AI generation tools to help create that content. and it's proving to be pretty successful. But you chime in because I know that this is your playground. Yeah, it's kind of, it's on both sides here. So what's happening is that you're having these influencers and they're turning out to be AI influencers that are creating AI videos of the property.

27:52Then some of the things they're showing don't exist on the property. So when guests book and get to the property, like, hey, where is this water slide? Or hey, where is this picture of this lobby that I saw in this video? And it doesn't exist. So it's a challenge for the hotel because one thing, you do want to work with affiliate links and get people to book and come through to your property on social. But now you don't really have a say on what the content looks like if you're giving that affiliate link out. And then when people are booking, trusting, you know, I don't know, Jane from Oklahoma's fake AI that she didn't make sure looks right.

28:26They're booking through it and then getting to the property and it's not correct. So it happened with a couple of properties they named in the article, which is interesting to see. So as a property, you want those eyeballs, but then you want to make sure that the, you know, now things can be made up before you have to travel to the property, film your B-roll, do your voiceover, make sure it was real. Now it's not happening.

28:47Sarah Dandashy: Yeah. Well, it's, it's interesting just because, I mean, there's so much that's happening with AI content just in general. So whether it is properties, but I mean, Oh my gosh, the number of accounts that I've seen where it's like, I'm, I'm, I'm 80 years old and I work out and this, and I'm like, Like, what is this weird? Like, they create these, like, fake accounts, or it's like, there's this guy that, like, trains dogs, and he's completely fake. And I'm just, I'm baffled. But, I mean, it's not too much of a surprise. It's going to get interesting. It's going to get harder and harder to see what's real and what is not real.

29:24Sarah Dandashy: Yeah, absolutely. But this shows that people believe it. Like, we are putting, we're not using it. We're using architectural renderings from Affirm for our resort, Baya. And people think that it's open. And it's like, wait, wait, I just saw that it's open. I'm like, no, it's not open. Those are architectural renderings that we have posted. And so it's hard to figure out what's the real thing. Which is so fascinating because everybody's, like to me, I can tell that those are architectural renderings. They're fantastic. And it's beautiful. And it's like, I can't wait till it's created and in person.

29:59Sarah Dandashy: And you're definitely not doing, what you're doing is not misleading by any means. But I do find it interesting that to me, it seems obvious, but I think everybody's threshold for determining what is actual and maybe what might be a rendering or like AI generated. You really have to look. I have to teach my kids because they're watching things on YouTube that they think are real. That is absolutely not real. That animal does not exist in the real world. Like, look at this animal. It's so cute. It's in the jungle of this place. I want to go see. It's like, that's not a real thing. That's an AI generated video.

30:31Sarah Dandashy: Well, gators in the Everglades, they exist. You saw them. I did. I did. All right. So why don't we talk on this other quick topic? Why every boutique hotel founder eventually sells. This is a good one. We could do a lot more time on this. But obviously, it's very interesting because obviously when a founder might start, build, take over a boutique hotel. There's a specific passion behind that. But then the real life situation reveals itself and the structural economics basically of this independent hotel ownership almost pushes a lot of these boutique owners to an exit. What are your thoughts on this, Steve?

31:25Sarah Dandashy: Because I know... Oh, I'm building a boutique hotel, right? We're building one now. And we're being very focused on the numbers here. A lot of hotel owners buy something. It's like a trophy property. I want to get in there. They purchase something and they just can't make the numbers work. They can't get the rates to cover the mortgage and the amount of money they invested in. But they're really good at creating a vibe and a brand and the beautiful spaces and places people want to hang out. And that's what the big brands don't have time to really figure out and do and develop. So that's why you see the Hiltons of the world, Marriott's of the world, buying up all these properties that we talked about.

32:00We talked about Citizen M starting from scratch and selling. We talked about graduate hotels building up a great brand and selling. And that's what we're going to kind of continue to see. Because one, it's very hard to have someone in a corporate office develop a brand that really resonates with a lot of people.

32:16Sarah Dandashy: Yeah. And it takes a special person to be that developer and to create every single guest touchpoint. and what the experience is like and what is the story of that property and how you create that for guests to experience and always remember. So it's a fine balance. I'm in the middle of doing it now. We don't plan on selling anytime soon and we have a plan to grow a big brand. But hey, you never know if a Marriott comes knocking on Baia's door. I can't talk to my partners, but I'm sure it would definitely be a conversation for all of us to have. But it's very hard. And we saw it with Citizen M where they said they got teamed up with Marriott and all of a sudden 50 was a 55 % of their bookings started coming from Bonvoy members.

32:58Um, so the impact is real when you really team up with the right brand.

33:02Sarah Dandashy: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I know I was thinking about that too, just cause I was just at, uh, a citizen M, um, and I kind of got into the citizen M fold from Bonvoy. So just a case in point as far as how it can be a boutique property. And then you're all of a sudden introduced to a whole slew of other travelers. But I want to be mindful of the time here. So we just do one quick last topic before we go to your favorite segment. Airbnb names exbooking.com hotel boss as chief business officer. So this is pretty interesting because, and let me actually just, and I do, do forgive me i do hope i'm saying his name correctly but peption rivers so i think right yes thank you this really does show airbnb is making a big push if you haven't already known to get into that hotel world um so they're really making a big push to get into there you see their website growing and growing like i said last week i think or two weeks ago if you haven't yet go on their website and see all the changes that they're making because not only are you using ai now to really personalize your experience now they're gonna have more and more things for you to be able to book so book that hotel book that house book the cars book the experience book everything they're really becoming that portal that connects to everything but you know you travel a lot have you ever gone on airbnb as part of like your first place to start thinking about booking a trip or are you looking more on the traditional places uh it depends on the trip and the destination.

34:43Sarah Dandashy: So there's absolutely certain destinations that I always go to Airbnb first. I should also say that I have with my clients, many of my clients are big families and they do prefer to stay in homes because it just makes more sense for space. My biggest push, and I'll actually, what, I'll even say it. I'll even say it out here out loud because I've definitely been an advocate for this. I would love to see if Airbnb can figure out a way to work with maybe travel advisors and the like that can help promote some of their properties when they've got clients that might be interested in staying at an Airbnb space.

35:31Sarah Dandashy: So I don't know. It would be it'd be very cool. But going back to this, this topic, it is, again, this move is very significant in that it's, it's just kind of showing that they're going to be a heavy focus on hotels as well as experiences. And I think we've talked about this before, always been a fan of the Airbnb experiences. I was probably one of their first 50 experiences that they created back in 2016. So I worked with Airbnb when they were developing that and they were pushing that out in Los Angeles. So, um, so I've seen it from come to, from an idea, um, and figuring out even the, the specific, um, uh, budget and pricing, like where they would really kind of see people, uh, get into it.

36:16Sarah Dandashy: And it's been remarkable, remarkable to see, but I, I do love what they've built and, um, and I am excited to see just how they continue to grow and build. I think they'll continue. I'm looking at CNBC right now, looking at Apple stock, Wall Street loves it too. So they're big up this year. They're up major. So no stock advice here, but just to show you, there's a strong belief in their product. Not that type of show. All the changes they're making, but yes, go check it out. See for yourself. Always a fan of what they're doing in buildings. So yes, your favorite segment, you take the lead here.

36:46My favorite part of every week. This is my highlight of the entire week, Sarah, is whose brand is it anyway? The game show where you all can participate and we try to guess the parent company to the sub brand we're about to show you. So make sure what parent company owns this sub brand? Oh, oh, moto, moto, moto or moto.

37:08Sarah Dandashy: I would say moto. I can't. Sir, I can't see moto. What's your motto, Sarah? Who owns this? I'm going with it's very green. I feel like that's an IHG brand. Green door. Oh, that's a good one. That's my gut. okay okay okay you know what i'll just i'll just say hi it all right listeners and viewers all of you watching today what is your guest hilton oh actually i now that you say that i knew that you know that motto by hilton know that yeah they i think they have one in new york very nice usually we go into a deep dive on i'm going to take a look at it but we've had a great show here yeah we had a fantastic guest we got to cover some rapid items here in the news and as always we got to hang out and learn about what we have going on in our worlds and for listeners of yours if you haven't yet make sure to hit subscribe we're always sharing great things here on this show well sarah until next week Ooh, stay hospitable.

38:46Thank you.