Inside the Mind of the World’s Most Optimistic CEO

30:50It's make friends everywhere you go and make it last. So every relationship is an important relationship. Every friendship that you make along the way is what enriches your life beyond measure. And all the folks that have touched my life, whether it was Ann Mulcahy or Tom Dolan or Emerson Fode or the great Barry Rand, rest his soul, or Al Bird, and so many others from my first corporate experience still are in my heart and in my life today. How old were you when you made that call to your parents? 21. You still feel that fire today, don't you? Oh, yes. I feel it even more so today because... I think you're being very genuine when you say that.

31:37Oh, 100%. I mean, because as you reflect on it you know the gravity of the situation you realize looking back on it was gigantic and at the time you're just doing what you do you're in you're in the moment you live in it but when you look back on it it's like all of this other stuff may not have happened yeah if not for that meeting on that day in that way and that's what makes every moment so precious and you got to make them all count, especially the big ones. Are you enjoying the day to day? Meaning when you look back, do you just have fond memories or as you're doing the work, are you very present with the work, really enjoying it?

32:25Like, are you in your flow state? I'm totally, you know, Juvan, that's the thing with me. I can't tell you I ever go back to any place unless you bring me back. You brought me back. If you didn't bring me back, I'm totally into this moment with you right now. I'm totally into the day I'm living today. And I have an eye on tomorrow, but I live today. And I'm all in on today. And I think that's really what it's all about. You can't show up and not be present. If you can't be present, don't show up. They have to go hand in hand. sometimes my team will get mad at me because i probably work too much like i i i don't say i have no chill like i don't know how to step back at all has anyone ever told you that does it does anyone ever like do you have a hard time separating from not at all not at all you can just detach i I am, well, I always call this, you know, work life, you know, and my work life is my life's work.

33:35A lot of people complain about work and family balance and that whole dynamic. No one's ever going to solve that dynamic entirely. And I've never tried because my family knows who I am and how I do it. And digital has actually inspired me to have a better work life because I'm totally present when I'm in real time. If I wasn't connected and I wasn't in real time, I wouldn't be totally present. I'd be thinking about what is or isn't getting done. Are my responsibilities being achieved or aren't they? And digital gives us an amazing opportunity to stay connected but still be present. So I can clear things even when I'm in my family moments.

34:33And I can do those highly efficiently. But when I've cleared them, I'm in that moment because I'm up to date, because I'm real time. So we always have to know our strengths and our weaknesses. and I know that if I'm not in real time and I'm not up to date, I'm not at peace. So I find great peace in being up to date and in real time and my family knows that. But when we're breaking bread and we're doing our thing, I'm not distracted. I'm not talking about what's going on in the office because I'm not in the office and talking about what's going on in the office isn't going to enrich that dinner conversation at that moment.

35:15so I am totally present do you mind if I ask one more question about your brother you can ask anything you want what did your mom say to you when you lost your brother do you remember of course what she said to you of course she said that my brother Jamie is in heaven now and he's an angel and he is watching over us and he will always watch over you it's incredible so not gone just different I got goosebumps when you when you left Xerox you were pick your accolade you basically had it at Xerox the youngest corporate officer you were the youngest manager you had kind of a historic run there you took the worst district into the best district um what surprised me was all of the pedigree that you had just built there yeah you only did what was a year at Gartner I think was the next stop right right yeah tell me like uh tell me about that time first of all obviously it wasn't the best choice it wasn't the best fit whatever it was I'm so curious how did that feel like what was that internal state of wait a second This isn't what SAP would go on to feel like or this isn't what ServiceNow would go on to feel like.

36:45It's a very good point. First of all, leaving Xerox, I mean, I can only tell you that it seems like it must have been like going through a really rough divorce. Because when you're really in love with something and you've convinced yourself that you need to change, it's not easy. And leaving the people that I love still to this day and some of my greatest friends for life was the hardest part. Not necessarily changing from I got to go from one corporation to another, but leaving the friendships that I had built over many years was really hard. And then the other thing that was really hard is my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer literally, literally the day I got my final contract signed with my new employer that day.

37:42So two young kids. My sons were really young. My wife has breast cancer. I just gave up a job that I love. And I had been there for 17 years. because opportunistically, I felt that I needed to go on and be the president of another publicly traded company. I felt that, you know, it was a great match because of what they needed and what I brought. But the timing literally could not have been worse. So we're moving out of a home in Rochester, New York, on a street that we love with great, greatest friends. I'm leaving all my friends at work we go i actually lived in a hotel room for probably about the first month i would say until i could get my family relocated i never forget this one story i get them i'm coming from a meeting in miami into um jfk and then on to connecticut and it was like the worst rainstorm, windstorm of probably the last 20 years.

38:47And my family had just settled into some other hotel room in Connecticut. I get there and literally I could see, you know, there's, there's sleep. And when I got there, but I saw, you know, the look on my wife's eyes when I came in the door, you know, I'm kind of drenched. I could see they had been through the ringer, you know uh sleeping on couches and things like that and i just knew she was really it was a really hard move it was a tough one you know we're dealing with a lot of things the next day i literally hadn't even unpacked i just throw on my suit and i i'm on this hill coming out of the hotel and like it was one of those you know neighborhood hotel type things with this huge Hill, I slip in my suit and I was like covered in mud from like my shoulder all the way through to my shoes.

39:43I get in this diner to get my family some breakfast and bring it back like a really highly emotional thing. And it underscored the whole experience, by the way. And literally, I saw this young woman with her children look at me with the suit covered in mud as if to say, like this guy looks like Dan Aykroyd in Trading Places, man. Like, please avoid this man. I get the egg sandwiches. I take it back to the room. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is really going to be a beauty. And so, you know, so I fought change. I fought the job change. We fought cancer. Thank God. And one, the kids, you know, had to adjust to new schools and all that.

40:24And I actually think that it was a great experience in the sense that was it the happiest experience I've had? No. Was it one of the toughest moments of my life? And I missed, you know, a lot of things about Xerox and I missed a lot of things about kind of like what I did, which was much more, you know, about the product or the solution that was really like running a business. Gartner was a fabulous company and I love my experience at Gardner. It was very much on the IT research and advisory services, which is fantastic. And I learned a lot. And I left because I had another opportunity to go to that was more suitable for me.

41:07And at that time, it was like a reawakening because we got to move out of Connecticut, we got to go to California, and we got to go to a software company. And I really felt like it was a beautiful change for me and my family. So I have no regrets. And I think that's one of the things that people really should think about. Not every single one is going to work out perfectly, whether it's the company isn't a match, the culture isn't a match, the timing is off because there's family circumstances that are far-reaching. There's a lot of different things. But in every experience, you give it everything you've got, you learn from it, you grow from it, and you have to have trust and faith that there's a reason that you go through this experience that will serve you down the road.

41:57And that's the most important lesson of all, that there is no experience that's a bad experience. There is only a bad experience if you didn't learn, if you didn't grow, and you didn't expand your ability to confront problems, dangers, pain, and then become more because of it. if you forfeit that opportunity, that's on you. Bill, when you found out that Julie had breast cancer and you signed the offer the same day, what was your instinct? Meaning, what did you do? Do you go into problem solving mode? Yeah, that's a really good question. The offer had been signed. You give your word. There's no turning back.

42:41You couldn't? Well, I could. I could. But then that brings on a whole nother set of complications. Where now you're saying, you know, your word is not great. So we both agreed, not just me unilaterally, Julie and I both agreed that an agreement is agreement, a commitment's a commitment. This is a challenge. And it's not one that either one of us wanted. We knew that things were going to get a lot tougher before they got easier, but we took it on as a team. And that's how it rolled. And this is another beautiful part of the Gartner story. And I love the Gartner story, actually, for a lot of reasons.

43:26But I love it especially for this reason, which is Julie benefited greatly from living in Connecticut, being in the New York area, and having Sloan Kettering, which is the number one institution in the world really for treating these cancer challenges. And the dreaded breast cancer disease is something that's taken a lot of lives. And fortunately, because we were there, we had access to the best healthcare. She had a great experience there. I got to stay with her and rent out my little room where the two of us could get through this thing together and you know recently julie and i were in new york and uh you know we went um to pay our respects to the whole you know tragedy of 9 11 and the first thing we did together is find out where michael judge father michael judge where his name was because we wanted to say a prayer and celebrate him because while i was there you know i remember and lots of folks go through lots of challenges, but I just remember being all alone.

44:34You know, my mom and dad came to take care of the boys. I was at Sloan Kettering, you know, Julie was in surgery and I was just walking around the halls and this lovely priest comes up to me, you know, with those piercing Paul Newman blue eyes. And he basically says, Hey, what are you in here for? And I said, you know, my wife is going through something. I explained it to him and I said, well, what are you in here forefather and he said well you know i i really do stay very close uh to the new york city fire department and i'm dealing with a personal health care issue with one of my colleagues myself and i'm here to pray for him and i said thank you you know if you could say a prayer for my wife i'd appreciate it too you know uh at that point i take all the help i can get and so anyhow after um Julie got out of surgery, they called me to come down.

45:25I could come see her, you know, in the recovery room. And all of a sudden, one of the nurses said to me, by the way, you know, Mr. McDermott, there's a priest who wants to come visit your wife. And I'm like, oh man, are there things they're not telling me? And it was him. And him and I, you know, met again at my wife's bedside and we stood over her and he said a prayer, an impassioned prayer within an inch of her face. I'll never forget that. And he had the cross in his hand and he said this impassioned prayer. And when it was over, he asked me to take a walk with him. And he obviously had connections because we went the back way through the hospital where nobody else could go and he knew every corridor.

46:18And I said, Father, you know, thank you very much. I can't believe it. You were so kind. I just met you to come say that prayer for my wife like that. And he said, Bill, I just want to let you know she's going to be fine. And I said, oh, great. How do you know? And he said, Bill, I know. I have friends in high places. She's going to be fine. I promise. And that was, let's say on a Thursday, by that Sunday night, he had come back again at like 9.30 at night to visit with us. And then he probably stayed till 10.15 or 10.20, something like that. It was an incredible visit. And on the way out, I said, Father, you know, if there's anything I can ever do for you, you know, please let me know.

47:04And he said, yes, Bill, you can. You know, you can say a prayer for me. He said, say a prayer that I won't get a drink tonight because I have a problem with that. And seeing a young woman like your wife have to go through something like this really makes me want to have a drink. So say a prayer I won't. I said, you got a deal. And then years later, you know, Julie wrote a lovely note to Father Michael Judge and the tragedy of his passing when he was one of the first that fell at the tragedy of 9-11. And you might remember the fireman carrying him on the site as he died on the site. And we said that prayer.

47:50So had I not made that move, I would have never met Father Michael Judge. Julie would have never been in the great hands of the Sloan Kettering medical professionals. I wouldn't have learned how to get through one of the toughest business changes that anyone could have gone through under these circumstances. I wouldn't have learned everything I learned at Gartner and learned everything there was to know about technology from the best researchers in the world. And I wouldn't have been prepared for the road ahead and all the things that were going to come at me if I just stayed in my cozy little comfort zone.

48:29Thank you for sharing that. That makes me emotional. Were you always sure? Did you think at all that maybe you were going to stay at Xerox? Or was this Long Island all over again? Where deep down you knew that there was something else in it for you? In the beginning, my dream was to go all the way and be the CEO that I dreamed of on that train ride when I was 21 years old. at xerox at xerox yeah no doubt about it yeah that was a hundred percent the dream that i was locked and loaded on then there comes a time you know after about 15 years at the time i just started thinking to myself you know i don't really want to waste my time living on one dream in one place, realizing that the world was changing so fast.

49:29The internet was just taken off. Digital was the wave of the future. There was such a wide world of things to learn, to explore, to get ready. And I had a strategic choice to make, which was, do you stay with the original dream because it's so deeply embedded in your soul? Or do you take the tough medicine and go for change in the hopes that you can even be more and you'd be more attractive to any CEO job potentially up the road because you know more, you've learned more, and you've gone through more to prepare you. And by the 17th year, I made the decision to make that change. and had I not done that, I wouldn't be here today with you.

50:19I might be somewhere else and that might have also been a great place to be, but that wasn't my destiny. Would it be fair to say that your life's calling is to maximize impact on as many people as you possibly can? I think that's a fair statement. I don't wear that on my sleeve in the sense that, you know, I get up in the morning saying like, you know, our company's 22 ,000 now, you know, how do I get it to 102 ,000 as fast as I can because I want to make an impact on 102 ,000. But it is true that I like it when you create something that gives you the ability to help and do good and achieve for the most people possible in whatever form that is.

51:06And again, what I loved about Xerox was that was 100 ,000 people. Now, I always loved the size and the scale. You know, SAP, when I first started, was probably 10 ,000 people. When I left, it was over 100 ,000. I love the size and the scale. Here, started at 9 ,000. We're over 23 ,000 now. You know, it's quickly becoming the size and the scale. And you know, what I love about the work and being in this privileged position is not just R23000. In the ecosystem, people that have their livelihood tied to the ServiceNow platform can be in the millions. And it's the millions of people that you can have an impact on that makes me really proud to work with such a great company.

51:58So pulling on that thread, I actually think you're going to build the Xerox of our generation. I I really believe that you're going to build what is, I think you and your team are going to build a canonical defining, defining company here. 80 billion in revenue. I think we're going to look back or market cap. I think we're going to look back and think that there's a lot more value that is going to be built in this place. Do you ever think, can you achieve, let's say, let's couch the conversation in maximizing impact for as many people as we want. Can you achieve that outside of business? Like, would you ever do it in politics?

52:32Have people asked you all the time? because you're very presidential. And I mean this sincerely. I don't know if you want to deal with that level of headache. I don't know if it's worth it, but would you ever consider, like, is there more of a calling for you even beyond the scope of the business world? Or do you think it's confined within work in the traditional sense? I always look at public service as an honorable profession. It's been knocked around pretty good, but I do believe that in public service, there is a deep need for people that have been servant-based leaders in the corporate environments that have created opportunity and goodness for literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, because you know a lot and you know what great looks like.

53:23you also know what really bad looks like and you just know what to do there is a difference government is a different business but politically having been with some of the largest companies in the world and work through some of the more difficult boardrooms in the world you understand what it takes to get things done to get people on the same sheet of music and to achieve good outcomes. So certainly public service is something that I believe the corporate leaders of the world really, really need to think about because the world needs them. So in that context, you never rule out a dream. In terms of what I'm doing here and why it's so important, I came here on a dream.

54:11I mean, I chose not after 17 great years and nearly 10 as CEO to renew for another five years. Not because that wasn't a terrific company or I didn't love it because I did. I saw the opportunity to take this one to be the defining enterprise software company of the 21st century. And I had a dream that I wanted to prove that I could take all the things that I had done and team up with a great culture, a great board, a great founder, and great human beings throughout this company and really take it to the next level. And because I understood enough about enterprise software and this particular platform, I knew it could happen.

55:01What I didn't know is just how unbelievably right I was. Because you don't always know from the outside. You think you know, but you don't know until you get. But I was right. You're right. It's pretty obviously right. Thank you. It's pretty amazing. Thank you. And I'm conscious of the time. So I, I know we only have a few minutes left. I, um, my mom is going to watch this and she's going to ask me what's with the sunglasses. A hundred percent. And I owe it to her. I owe it to her to give an answer. Can you, can you give me a story? Do you mind? And I appreciate you being so generous with these stories.

55:38I've had literally goosebumps and shivers up and down my body. I mean, And so in a certain sense, you know, you have to tell your mom, it's not just because he's too cool for school. It is a rock star look with the hair. I do like it. It's not too cool for school. I was in a serious accident in 2015. And in that accident, I literally, you know, was in a fight for my life. And one of the things that took place is after many surgeries, double digit numbers of surgeries, I finally had to give in and I lost my eye. And I got a new one now, so I'm good. But that's why I wear the glasses. And, you know, I look I look back on, you know, even that, you know, you say, well, you know, would that be a program you'd volunteer for?

56:31No. Um, it wouldn't be, but you know, what's, what's quite amazing about it all. And this is where I think like, I'm so happy in my life. It's like, I would have never said, yeah, get me online, you know, for that injury, because I want to prove that I can come back and I want to prove that nothing can slow down the will of a winner who can rise. I want to prove that to the world. I wouldn't have actually signed up for that program. But having been through this, I can tell you that when I look at this world we live in, from the first responders to the incredible health care professionals and surgeons that can take a serious case and put somebody back together again, I'll always be in their debt.

57:23But one of the stories that your mom might appreciate is that the day that I had to finally give in and I lost my eye permanently, I was in the hospital. My sister, Jennifer, was with me and my wife and my sons were at school. And I definitely didn't want to make a big deal out of it because there's no big deal to be made out of it. But I just remember there was a sadness that came over me. And I never said anything at the time, but it's true that there was. And most people would say, well, you know, that's pretty devastating. You know, that's the moment where the reality sinks in. And, you know, that's tough.

58:11But the tough part for me was I had lost my mother in 2010, and I felt like I was giving up a piece of my mother. And the only thing I could think of was her. Wow. How, um, you had double digit surgeries? Oh, yeah. I mean, just a whole lot of stuff. But yes, double digit. In fact, the last one, that was the big serious one I'm telling you about. It was amazing because my great executive assistant at that time put Barbara Rendina, put a gentleman on a couple of gentlemen on the phone that were Medal of Honor winners and Michael Thornton and Tommy Norris. and I had met Michael Thornton in Washington at a fundraiser and at this fundraiser I had the absolute honor of meeting every living United States Medal of Honor award winner that was still alive at an incredible fundraiser in Washington DC.

59:30I'll never forget you know buying a baseball bat and I believe it was 67 at the time signing the bat and then we gave it away to charity which was super cool but my my point is I made friends with Michael and on one of my tougher days I got that call from Michael and Tommy Tommy Norris who was his boss in Vietnam um structurally and michael fought off the enemy got behind enemy lines saved tommy and the reason that tommy was on the line is because he lost his eye on the battlefield and michael thornton saved his life and they both won the united states um medal of honor so that's you know pretty big stuff And what I thought to myself is I started out with a sadness.

1:00:24But as I'm riding back in the SUV with my wife and I get this phone call, just leaving the hospital. And I said to myself, there's nobody that has my life story. And this is just such an unbelievable thing that these guys would think enough of me to call me at this moment and come in just in time. to just give me so much inspiration. And it was great because they were yucking it up pretty good with me. In fact, Tommy told me, he said, Bill, you're never going to pour orange juice very well, so forget it. It's going to be all over the place. He said, you're going to be a mess driving a car. He said, forget about going downstairs in a predictable way.

1:01:13And he went through a litany of all the things. You know, I like to shoot hoops and things like that. So all the things that I wouldn't be good at. And we just laughed the whole time. And then I got off the phone. And before I did, I said to them, I said, I want you to know that you have crystallized what I already knew to be the truth, which is I'm the luckiest guy in the world. And I said to have men who fought for their country and were willing to die for it and die for each other. On a day like today, give me a call. How lucky is that? Spectacular. And isn't this at the height of your career?

1:01:53Yeah. Well, at the time. Yeah, no, no question. At the time, I had been CEO of SAP, co-CEO between 2010 and 2014. And then I had been named sole CEO in 2014. And this happened in 2015. So I was absolutely in my, you know, you know, pinnacle years at SAP. And it was quite an amazing thing because I literally missed the board meeting because this happened on July 1st. And the board meeting was going on in Germany, like, you know, right after that. And I called up, you know, from the hospital. and I basically just told my colleagues, like, don't worry about me. I'm going to be fine and I'll be back.

1:02:45When I got back after about a week home, I called up my management team and I called up the board of directors because they were just wrapping up things in Germany. And I said, I just want to let you know that I'm beyond this business every single step of the way. How's the quarter looking? And by the way, I want you all to know that I'll be at the next board meeting. in October. And that's a guarantee. But between now and then, we're not going to slow down one iota. Full speed ahead, we're on it. And I was. I would get a surgery or something in the morning. And by the afternoon, I'm back online and doing everything I needed to do.

1:03:26And I was back at that, you know, next board meeting. And believe me, I could tell I was still pretty raw because you could see the scarring and things like that. And I was a little worried about it in the beginning because I didn't know how people would receive it. Meaning seeing the look? Well, you have sunglasses on and you could see the scarring and things like that on your face and everything, neck and stuff. Glasses are pretty brutal. Were you insecure about it? I was not insecure about it. I was not certain how people would react to it. I mean, it was it, you know, this is me. So the question is like, you know, you don't know.

1:04:09You just really don't know. And what I learned, and this is the part that actually amazed me, and I did not figure this, is that it was unbelievable how great it was in terms of the reception, that people were just thrilled that you were still alive and that you were there and you were doing your thing. and actually in a certain way you were doing your thing at an even higher level because what happens when you go through something like this i always had you know a vision but in in no in the in the normal times i could you know still see trees i knew there was like a glistening snow top mountain behind the trees but i'd have to look through the trees first to see the snow top mountain but after you've survived something like this there's no trees you know vision is not what you just what you see it's how you feel and it's how you make other people feel and it's also your ability to just be so human and so in the moment and so not worried about the baby stuff because there's so many big things to conquer and by far you know once I could see the reception was like so wonderful and I was just back and people were glad you know everyone's got their thing and I just feel like maybe in some ways I became more approachable even though I always felt approachable but I became more human because you know they're like hey this guy he bleeds too you know he's just like me and what really opened up is Jubin so many people wanted to tell me their story You know, my mother went through this and my father went through that or I went through the other thing or my relative.

1:05:56And I literally was dealing with literally thousands of notes. And it just became so human, so interconnected. And even in my peer group, you know, with other CEOs or heads of state and things like that, nobody, you know, literally nobody had an issue. and that surprised me now maybe somebody didn't know and it's like you know is this guy too cool for school showing up in a meeting with glasses on i don't know but i can tell you that um it hasn't set me back one one bit and it probably gave me again um something of a superpower that i did not anticipate well and it brings me back and just to put a bow on this to this idea that the things that happen in your personal life are deeply intertwined to the things that happen in your professional life.

1:06:50And, um, that's kind of the point of this show is that I think that people like you, it's, you're really doing people a service by talking about it and it means a lot. So I really appreciate it. And I'm really grateful for you doing this. Well, thank you very much for having me, Juban. And, you know, I think that, uh, it's just an honor to be among the leaders of the world that have a chance to make a difference. And, you know, it reminds me of my book, When His Dream. You know, I basically capped the book with an opening quote from Robert Kennedy, and I closed it with a quote from his brother, Ted Kennedy.

1:07:29And Robert Kennedy once said, some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not. And then I capped it off at the end of the book with a quote from his brother Ted because he was an interesting figure in this world and he probably gave his greatest speech in 1976 in defeat when he did not get the nomination to be the Democratic nominee for President of the United States. And in his speech he said, to all those whose cares are our concern, The cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream will never die. That's why winners always have to dream. Bill, I'm just saying, you started the book with a politician, you ended the book with a politician.

1:08:20Do me a favor, if it ever happens, we do this again. I'm really, really grateful for you. Oh, before I forget, is ServiceNow hiring? Are there any key roles that you want to shout out? You want to reach directly to you? What's up? Yeah, are you hiring? Well, we are hiring. We are hiring a lot of people. We're hiring primarily engineering roles. So people that build software for our once in a generation platform or go to market people who care for the customer relationship and can move that relationship in a positive way. Those are our primary categories that we're hiring right now, but we are hiring thousands of people.

1:09:03And ServiceNow is the place to be for people that want to change the world and make this the defining enterprise software company of the 21st century like me. Last one. I've asked every single guest this. I can't let you go without asking you. What does the word grit mean to you? Never giving up. Never give up. Phil McDermott, thank you. Thank you very much. That's it for now. If you liked the episode, please leave us a review or go back into the archives where we've done more than 200 episodes with some fantastic folks. This podcast is a Kleiner Perkins production, and I'm Jubin. Thanks for listening.