Gaelin Rosenwaks: A Lifelong Fascination with Ocean Giants

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0:49I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. We're on a mission to make you remarkable. And today we are going to have a whale of a good time. because helping me in this episode is Galen Rosenwax. She's a marine scientist, explorer, photographer, and filmmaker. She began her career researching zooplankton overwintering patterns at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. When Galen was a toddler, a young sperm whale who had fallen ill beached himself on the shores of Long Island, New York. Galen visited this whale daily with her mother and brother. Like Jane Goodall, this was the beginning of a lifelong dedication to animals.

1:36She has participated in and led expeditions worldwide. An Arctic, Arctic, Pacific, Atlantic Oceans, she's been there. She's a U.S. Coast Guard licensed captain and fellow of the Royal Geographical Society. She's a member of the Explorers Club and Society of Women Geographers. Her book, Sperm Whales, The Gentle Goliaths of the Ocean, is something to behold, especially at a mere$50. I'm Guy Kawasaki, this is Remarkable People, and now here's the remarkable Galen Rosenwax. We begin with an update on that whale from Long Island, New York, many years ago. The whale's name is Feisty.

2:24Give us an update on Feisty. Have you found him again? Have you seen him again? Do you know what's happening with Feisty? No, I have not found him again. Of course, I've been looking for big male sperm whales in many different parts of the world now. I think to find actually Feisty, the whale himself, would be very difficult, but certainly I've been in the water with large male sperm whales. The most amazing thing about male sperm whales is they're pretty solitary creatures. So he could really be in any ocean anywhere in the world because they do go between the oceans. So most likely he's up in the Arctic or off of our coast here in New York, but sort of a needle in a haystack to find that individual whale.

3:07That said, also he was so young when he stranded that he only had one scar on the base of his tail and he was four years old and now he would be in his 40s. So probably it'd be a much smaller scar. So he would be hard to recognize. However, I love the idea of possibly stumbling upon Feisty one day when I'm in the water with those sperm whales or looking for them here where we can't get in the water, but we can see them from boats and from drones and things. But I have been in the water with large male sperm whales and they are a sight to behold. So hopefully Feisty is somewhere in the ocean swimming around.

3:43So it's pretty amazing. I have to ask you what seems like a dumb question, but when everybody was taking care of him, why didn't you guys tag him? I was just a toddler when this happened. So I was not part of the rescue. I was just one of the grateful onlookers to have this glimpse at this wild, huge creature. So he wasn't tagged, I think, for a few different reasons. One, it was 1981. So there wasn't much tagging technology like we have today. So any tag that they would have put on him would have been more of acoustic telemetry tag. So it would certainly no longer be functioning today just because of batteries alone.

4:22And you would have actually had to have chased him around with a receiver to know where he was going. So it would have been a much shorter term tag. Certainly on a mammal, we're not going to put some sort of marker tag on him that would be permanent. So that was the other thing. And then also just, I think in the fray of the rescue and trying to get him released because he was named Feisty for two reasons. One, because of his scientific name being Feist or Macrocephalus, so it was a shortened version. And then because he was Feisty, the adjective. And so with Feisty, the adjective, you can see that they're not going to want to keep a 24 foot whale in captivity if he is getting a little bit more rambunctious.

5:05So they needed to get him away before they could figure out the tagging situation. And if this happened today, would he be tagged? And how would that tag operate? I ask myself the question of what would happen to him today quite often, especially as I've been reflecting on it and talking more about him. And I've seen other animals strand and be alive. And to be honest with you, I don't know if they even would have attempted the rescue like they did. Because when they brought him into captivity, they had never attempted anything like this before. And they dragged him by his tail into the boat basin, which now you wouldn't be allowed to do.

5:43And they really thought it was going to be a necropsy. Certainly, I would love to think that they would bring him in and try to figure out what was wrong and get him better. I do think more likely they would have euthanized him in today's world, unfortunately. However, if they did bring him in, get him better, everybody rallied around a whale like that today, they would use some sort of suction cup technology to tag him with satellite telemetry. And it could stay on him for, I think, a few months, probably not much longer. And then we could know a little bit more about him. Certainly, satellite tags can survive now with battery power for up to a few years.

6:25So that is a possibility. However, because we wouldn't actually surgically implant them on the sperm whale, it would most likely fall off sooner. Can I ask you a somewhat insensitive question? Is there a point where you read these stories like$5 million has been spent rescuing this whale? Do you say to yourself, it's probably better for whales and wildlife that we take that $5 million and put it to use other ways than saving one whale? Or is it just that never comes up? I think that in today's world, it certainly would come up as a question. I think in 1981 with Feisty, it wasn't a question. Everybody was volunteering.

7:04Everyone was so excited to get up close with sperm whales, which really before that point, it was really only whalers who were set out to kill them getting this close. So it was a really rare glimpse to see this whale up close in this close contained tank boat basin. So I think in that case, it was 100 % worth it to bring him in because really no one had been this close to a live male sperm whale other than the whalers. So we had so much to learn from this whale then. And I do think that there's a point to spending money to try to save these animals for a few different reasons. One, we learn a lot about the creature, seeing it up close and having it in a temporary captive situation because clearly he was ill.

7:52They brought him in and then And they set him free, much like we do with turtles and other wildlife now. I think also because it ignites people to care. When they see that we can help these animals, I think it really gets people involved in a story that connects them to the ocean in a way they otherwise may not have. Tens of thousands of people saw Feisty. And the amazing thing to me is now still 40 years later, I get notes from people who read my story. and they say, I remember seeing Feisty. It was so impactful on my life. I looked at everything so differently. He looked at me and we connected.

8:29I went with my grandfather. I went with my wife. I remember when they set him free and everybody was cheering and it made everybody look at wildlife in the ocean differently. So I think in that regard, it's very much money well spent because otherwise, how do you really rally people to connect with the ocean? I think you and I both connect with the ocean and care about the ocean for our own reasons, but many people don't feel that connection and it's a way to get them to connect.

9:03We've had Jane Goodall on this podcast two or three times and in a sense, feisty is the equivalent of the chimpanzee that Jane Goodall first befriended or the chimpanzee that first trusted Jane Goodall. I saw a lot of parallels in the story there. I think that whenever there's a human connection to wildlife, it's extremely special. And I do think that it becomes a conduit to looking at the ocean and animal life in a different way. So I really appreciate that parallel. And for so many reasons, of course, because Jane is such a hero of mine and I grew up reading all of her books and everything. But, you know, I do really think that seeing how an animal interacts in the wild with a human is so unique.

9:51And sperm whales, I think in particular, because they are mammals and they have the largest brain of any animal on the planet in particular, do have this curiosity towards people, whether it was Feisty who allowed them, allowed the scientists to work on him or the whales that I get to spend time with in the ocean that show a genuine curiosity towards me. So taking us back, why were they hunted? What were people trying to get out of whales? I mean, if you're telling me it's for oil or something, surely there's an easier way to get oil than going out into the ocean and killing whales. No, when they were killing whales, it was for oil.

10:30It was how we illuminated the streets. It's what we had before we started drilling. Before we had the oil rush, really. It was whales. Killing whales powered the planet. It powered industry. It powered our lamps. It was a great lubricant, especially sperm whales, the sperm esti in sperm whales' heads. They would make smokeless candles from it and lubricants for machines. Still, there's rumors that certain really fine machinery is still using sperm esti oil for the lubrication, but they really did power the world. So now we're talking about transitioning away from oil into all of our renewables and different resources.

11:18But before that, we were transitioning from killing whales to using fossil fuel oil, if you think about it. I guess in one sense, at least it's better than killing whales, I guess you could say. I would definitely agree with that statement. Whales are so incredibly intelligent. They're so similar to us. They're mammals. They take care of their young and it's pretty crazy to think that anybody would kill them. But at the same time, back then, nobody knew any better, right? So we can only judge what we know and what we knew at that time. But I'm certainly glad we stopped killing them. Have we stopped completely?

11:58There's no nation in the world that hunts sperm whales now? No one is targeting sperm whales. However, there are a few nations that do hunt whales. They aren't hunting them for oil. They're hunting them for meat primarily. So Japan, Norway, and Iceland all still hunt whales along with some indigenous tribes on a more artisanal level. But industrial whaling is still going on. In fact, just this week, they approved quotas in Iceland for killing whales. And Japan has already killed quite a few whales this year. It's unfortunate. I think now we do know better. And so we really need to rally to stop this whale hunt that they've been doing.

12:41And on the artisanal scale, I don't really have a problem with it because then it's more of a tradition. And the tribes that are doing it use every piece and every little morsel of that whale. And it's keeping their tradition and culture alive. whereas with the industrial whaling there's just absolutely no excuse for it and isn't a species of whale is it minke or minke is it minke yeah minke so if a minke whale is first i have to ask is that a threatened species because i've been told that it's okay to hunt those for meat because there's so many of them i don't think it's okay to hunt them there are more minkees than most of the other species of whales.

13:26I don't know their exact status IUCN-wise or threatened-wise. However, no, I would argue that any mammal that has a brain like ours and is so developed is not okay to kill. And then they're also hunting fin whales, which are the second largest whale on the planet. So I can't see any reason why we should be killing a whale today. I hope you don't mind. Many people may not know that much about sperm whales, including myself. So I learned a lot reading your book. But do you mind if you just give us like the sperm whale for dummies, like how big they are, how long they live, their social life, male, female roles, diet, how they communicate their enemies?

14:12Just give us the gist of sperm whales if you don't mind. Sperm whales, in my opinion, are one of the most incredible animals on the planet. They're an animal of superlatives. They are the largest predator on our planet. They have the largest brain. They are a toothed whale, so therefore they're the predator. They dive one of the deepest of any whales. So they actually hunt giant squid down in the dark depths of the ocean. They can also hold their breath since they're mammals. They are air breathers. So they are diving and holding their breath for 45 minutes while they're hunting. we only see a glimpse of their life at the surface.

14:48They are sexually dimorphic. So the females are around 30 feet and the males are double that in their 60 feet. And then of course, we've got the tails of Moby Dick and all of those whales that were 80 feet. Now we don't really see very many that are that big anymore, probably because of whaling, but they can get very large. One of the coolest things about sperm whales also is that their life history is very similar to humans in that they nurse until they're around two. That's when they start eating salad food. And then they stay with their families until they're teenagers. The females actually stay together their entire lives, but the males get kicked out when they're adolescents and go roam the ocean.

15:33They reach sexual maturity around that time. So in their teens, much like humans, and then the females will start having babies when they're in their 20s and then the males, because they have to compete, will be a little bit older and then they live into their 70s, maybe even longer. So they live almost a parallel life to humans or at least that's how I like to describe it easily and they're absolutely incredibly intelligent. They communicate with one another. They have language. There are some scientists trying to decipher their language but they use clicks and codas unlike humpbacks that sing and it's pretty developed and certainly there's a wisdom behind their eyes that's unlike any other creature I've been in the presence of in the wild.

16:18Like how do they exhibit wisdom? It's a good question and I think it's more of this feeling that I get when I'm in the water with them but their eyes are extremely expressive so if we think about any animal that we look at when you look at their eye whether it's a shark or a chimpanzee or your pet dog or whomever it is, there's just this knowledge and curiosity that you feel. They are interacting with us in the wild in a way that I've never interacted with another animal before. Okay. You're swimming along with this 60-foot thing. Are you not terrified? How do you know that the whale doesn't think, oh, look at this new piece a squid here?

17:03Well, there's a few different reasons why I'm not terrified at all. I am a little different than probably most of your listeners in that once I get in the ocean, any apprehension or fear I have about a situation melts away. There's nowhere I feel more comfortable than in the ocean. So for me, that's my initial answer. However, there is logic behind it as well. So because sperm whales are so smart and they have such a large brain, any decision that they make towards me in the water is going to be intentional. The other thing is that they really only hunt at depth and I'm on the surface. So they are resting on the surface.

17:45They are refilling their blood with oxygen. They're oxygenating themselves. For anybody who's a free diver listening, we learn breath hold techniques and you can really feel the sperm whale doing that, different patterns of breathing as they're resting and recovering from this deep, long dive, like 45 minutes down at depth. And then you can listen and hear them breathing to then load oxygen into their system before they dive. So we're really just getting a glimpse of their life at the surface, which is really a rest period for them. But they are very large. And I think the most dangerous thing about being in the water with them is possibly getting hit by a tail if you get in the way.

18:25But I've never felt any aggression towards me and all of my experiences with them. And so I would say that any initial apprehension I may have had, which I did not have, has certainly melted away at this point. And just another question out of ignorance, are there truly albino sperm whales or is that just a book? Is that just Moby Dick? No, there are. There are certainly whiter colored sperm whales. I've not seen one, but they certainly can exist and do exist. Many of the whales that we see have white patches on them. And so I would say that it would just be a case of one of those, maybe there'll be larger white patches or smaller, different patterns.

19:08And then of course, just like with almost any animal, you can see color variation and more albino species of them or variations, mutations. And when you decide to go and study and photograph whales, how do you find them? There's a lot of ocean out there. Yeah, absolutely. And so it really depends on where you're going and what you're looking for. So I intentionally started this project in Dominica because there's a resident population of females that lives in Dominica or in the basin around Dominica. It's a highly regulated operations. So they actually have permits that you get to get in the water with the whales there.

19:49We sort of know that that's a concentrated area for these females with their babies and these family units. I would say that's a good spot that we knew. There's a few other aggregations of whales or more resident populations, one being in the Azores, in Mauritius, in the Galapagos. But then you can really go anywhere and happen upon a sperm whale in deeper water. So I just returned from an expedition where I was looking for sperm whales off of the coast of the U.S. So like Feisty was from the water here in the North Atlantic, the Western North Atlantic, I decided I wanted to spend some time offshore here to hopefully see a sperm whale.

20:28A little bit more of a needle in a haystack. They do see them on some of the aerial surveys. We did not see any on our expedition. However, they certainly are here. When I was doing this project and embarking on the project, I went for the shore thing, which turned out not to always be a shore thing. We had one expedition where we saw no whales and we certainly have days that we don't see them when we're there. So it's a lot of time spent to get the images and to spend the time. But once we're in Dominica, we also have to find them. So it's not like you just go out and you see them and they're everywhere.

20:59We actually listen for them because they do vocalize and they use clicks for hunting, sonar clicks for hunting, we put a hydrophone down. So we'll go out a couple of miles, put a hydrophone down, listen. And when we hear them, it's a directional hydrophone, we head in the direction that they are. And then between listening and pinpointing where they seem to be and looking, that's how we find them. And when they're clicking, they're not clicking after they dove all the way down, or they're clicking at the surface, or they click all the time? They do both. So they're clicking down below mostly for hunting.

21:36So they're actually putting off like a ping, like a sonar ping that they're then getting that information back. That's how they sense where they are in the water. They're going to learn if there's a squid in front of them or something that they're going to hunt in front of them because they certainly can't see down at depth. It's completely dark. And then they also use the clicks to communicate with one another. So it's a combination. So yes, you'll see them at the surface, but if they're resting, they won't be clicking. But if they're talking to one another or communicating or looking for each other, then they will be clicking up on the surface as well.

22:11So it's a different type of pattern with their clicks, depending on where they are and what they're doing.

22:21There's an instance in your book where you talk about what you thought was rope stuck in a sperm whale's mouth, and it was actually part of a squid. So just how big are the squid that they're eating? So the squid tentacle that you're referring to was an architeuthis, so a giant squid. So the tentacle alone was 20 feet. So the squid itself was probably between 30 and 40 feet long with the full length extended of its tentacle. So this is the largest species of squid ever. So few have been seen in the wild, certainly alive. I think there's only been a few filmed because they're mostly at depth as well, but very large squid.

23:07They'd have a very large beak and they actually have suckers on their tentacles that are quite large, like over a quarter size. And actually when we got that tentacle, and just to back up on the story, when I saw that rope, I was very upset because I thought that it was a rope and there's a lot of entanglement issues with sperm whales in Dominica and throughout the world with whales. Entanglement is one of the biggest threats facing them. And so when we saw it and then when they dropped it and brought it up to me and I saw that it was a squid tentacle, it was so freshly caught that it was actually still changing color and sucking onto me, which was pretty neat.

23:47Yeah, it was a wild experience. And I have to say it was, I think, still the best day of my life because two incredible ocean creatures and being part of this system. Like one of them really gifted it to me. I couldn't have gotten it where it actually fell out of its mouth. So one brought it up to the surface and spit it out right in front of me. And then I was holding a giant squid tentacle, which, you know, one can, I couldn't even dream that up, right? It's not even something that would make, no, and it's not even something I would put on a bucket list thinking that like, this is something I could ever accomplish.

24:19And there I was holding this creature from the depth or a piece of the creature from the depth. Do you have a picture of you holding that tentacle? Yes, there is one in the book. We may need to get that picture for this episode. Yeah, it's actually usually, funny enough, it's the headshot that I use is one where I've taken this 20-foot tentacle and wrapped it around me like a stole. But then in the book, there is actually one where I'm holding it more spread out because it was just so phenomenal. It was one of those stories where I can't talk about sperm whales or give a talk about sperm whales and this project without talking about it because for so many different reasons.

24:58But I really felt the sperm whale just thought I was hungry or something and wanted to share its dinner. So I loved your book. And there are many things that just struck me about your book. But one thing, and you don't really need to, it's not a question here, but I am amazed that the quality and the color and the number of pages and photos that that book is only$50 because Madison and I finished a book called Think Remarkable. And it's, I don't know, 200 something pages. There's not one color page in that thing, right? And that's$28. So for a little more than twice or a little less than twice our book, you get this amazing coffee table book with pictures.

25:45I am so impressed with that. Yeah, Rizzoli, my publisher, are the ones who really take the credit for getting the print quality that we did. And I had a phenomenal designer and team that worked on the book and also setting the price point was totally up to them. However, when we had the initial conversations, I really wanted to make a book that was more accessible to people. I didn't want it to be cost prohibitive for people. So I really appreciate that you appreciate that as well. Because I really want people to be able to see it and read it. So that was a big part of it. But yeah, I didn't have anything to do with the pricing of the book.

26:24But I'm very happy that it's not over the top expensive. No, absolutely. Like I said, I look at how much we charge for our book and I look at how much you charge for your book. And my God, your book is a bargain or ours is a rip off, depending on how you want to look at it. I'll go with mine being a bargain because I think probably a lot of work goes into any book. This was my first book. And I have to say that books take a lot of work, whether it's the writing, because I did all of the writing and mine and all of the captions or the photographs. So, you know, a book really becomes a labor of love.