Gerry Lopez: Surfing Icon on Mastering Waves and Life

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0:48I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. Aloha. We are joined today by the remarkable Jerry Lopez. He's known as Mr. Pipeline. He was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, and his early surfing career started at the Alamoana Bowls. This paved his way for a spectacular surfing career. He won the title of Hawaii State Champion at just 14. His evolution continued at Oahu's North Shore, where he mastered the Banzai Pipeline. He scored victories at the Pipeline Masters in 1972 and 1973. His influence extends beyond riding waves to also surfboard manufacturing. He co-founded the Lightning Bolt Surfboard Company, where he pioneered high-performance shortboards.

1:39He's also somewhat of a movie star. He had great roles in North Shore and Conan the Barbarian. He is the source of one of my favorite movie lines of all time. He's so Howley, he doesn't even know he's Howley. I'll explain that to you. Haole is a somewhat negative term used in Hawaii for white people. So when this mainland haole came to Hawaii and started surfing on the North Shore, he had to break into a group of locals. And let's just say that locals are not always initially welcoming to strangers. Basically, Jerry is saying that the mainland haole is so dumb, he doesn't even know he's dumb. What can I say?

2:24You had to be there. Jerry is truly a legend. He exemplifies passion, innovation, and inspiration. You'll also find out in this episode about the relationship of yoga and surfing, as well as whether I should fix a board that he made for me that was damaged in a very funny incident. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. Join me in celebrating the remarkable life of Mr. Pipeline, Jerry Lopez. quote he's so holly he doesn't even know he's holly that's you in north shore right yeah that was a fun project we did that was a while ago i was in the early 80s when i read the script i thought wow this is a pretty good script this is believable and today now with the whole wave pool thing it's really becoming like a very real possibility that there may be some very near future world champion that learns how to surf in a wave pool and who came up with that line because whoever came up with the line truly understood Hawaii when I read the script obviously there was a lot of whoever the guys that wrote the script were a little bit haole but they wanted to use pigeon in a lot of the things that I was saying and the hooey guys were saying but their pigeon wasn't very authentic I ended up actually becoming one of the technical advisors you mean and put in most of the pigeon lines in that movie so you're a linguist as well as a surfer just like you we grew up with pigeon probably your parents were just like mine they wouldn't let us talk pigeon in the house but yeah when we were with all our friends it's funny because i'm 69 years old and i went to college in the mainland and i have been trying to lose my pigeon for 40 50 years but people still come up to me and say i heard you just talk are you from hawaii and i'm like what the hell what's giving this away and then a few months ago i interviewed this linguist on this show and she said you should stop being ashamed of your accent it's part of you don't try to clean it up just be you it's always there and when us locals hear each other speak even if we don't know each other just look at them and go oh so unloco lah so has anybody ever pointed out the irony that someone from punahoe was playing a north shore mo i mean there is some irony there right jerry i guess there is right okay let's take us back to your first wave at queens what was the feeling that's a feeling that never leaves I don't think any surfer they always remember that first wave and what they remember is that gliding just that the waves doing all the work and you're just gliding along like riding down a hill on a bicycle with no hands just sailing along and I think it just touches everyone somewhere deep inside and that's the reason you know surfing is like it is and surfers are like they are that all they want to do is go surf and recapture that feeling again but it's always the first one that makes the biggest impression yeah I started surfing at 60 And if I had surfed as a kid, I would not be where I am today.

6:21There's no way. I'd be making coffee at Ala Moana Center for somebody right now. I know. Surfing doesn't take some of your time. It takes all of it. Yeah. I take a break from surfing to work now. There's a story in your book about how you got arrested on Kauai for trespassing on the Robinson land. And I want to know what you took away from that experience, though. You didn't serve any time. You got exonerated. But what's the lesson there? You better know the rules before you play the game. Yeah, you know, we were just tired and lazy from surfing all day. And we knew better. But right at the end, right before you get to the Waimea River, there was a little road that you didn't have to walk over all the rocks on the beach and we just weren't thinking and we jumped on that road and we knew that was a private road even though it was right next to the beach and then they were waiting for us busted but it's not like I'm a big localism kind of guy but you could make the case that this is Hawaii and you guys are Haole rich plantation owners what is the big deal about letting surfers walk on your road well obviously the judge felt that too because in the end he said there was no intention to trespass and he let us go and we couldn't believe it we didn't know what was going to happen but we didn't think we were gonna you know get away with that off to oahu prison we go yeah i have a question from left field which is maybe you can explain to me why is the skill 100 held in such high regard it's almost like mystical the people who have a skill 100 it's like this magic thing that you cannot get and what's so magical about that tool it was just the ideal tool for shaping foam because we've tried to recreate it i worked with gordon clark at clark foam and jeff holtby when they tried to take a hitachi and make it work like a skill and it was It was the angle of the handle and it was the way the adjuster for the depth of cut worked.

9:01That it was just perfect for shaping foam into a surfboard. And today, they're really hard to find. How hard could it be for skill to reintroduce that? I don't think there's that big of a demand for them. Okay, fair enough. A lot of the information about you goes really deep into yoga. So can you explain for us the connection of yoga and surfing? When I was, I think it was my sophomore year, I saw a bunch of good-looking wahinis looking at a bulletin board. So, you know, I like to think, I just want to walk up there and, hey, how's it? What's happening? But most likely, I was very meekly peeked over their shoulders to see what they were interested in.

9:53And there was a yoga class announcement there on the board. And they looked at me and put me on the spot. Are you going? And of course. And I'm sure I went to that class hoping to see those girls again. But what I found was something that really made a big impression on me ever since then. I mean, I thought that watching that yoga instructor, this was in 1968, too. There weren't many yoga opportunities like this available. And watching that gal, just watching her move, I thought, yoga's going to make me a better surfer. I better learn how to do this. And I stuck with it. You know, I found that over the years that like surfing, yoga only comes into a person's life when I guess it's supposed to.

10:51It has to be the right time. And I've tried to introduce so many friends to it, but it wasn't the right time for them. So they weren't that interested. But when it is, it will happen. And is it the effect of stretching and strengthening or is it a mental thing that links yoga and surfing? This is like the one hand clapping question for me and something I've thought about over all these years, which for me, it's been over 50 years for yoga and a long time for surfing. Obviously, the physical part is really important, but the idea in yoga is that there's this whole universe of experience that occurs in this unseen realm of existence that is constantly, every moment of our lives, influencing us.

11:52And the yogis call it prana, the Hawaiians call it mana, which is another interesting thing that why these two cultures on opposite sides of the world would have almost the same word for the exact same thing. What they're talking about is the life force that animates all life. And I believe that in order to surf successfully, which you have discovered later in life, which is probably a better time to find that because you probably have thought about it a lot. But in order to ride a wave successfully, you have to be in that meditative, deep meditative state of mind. and if you aren't wipe out and the beauty of surfing is that you attain that state of mind almost instantaneously the moment that you start paddling for that wave and especially the moment when you stand up on that surfboard to get to that same state of mind in a yoga practice requires There's a lot more time and some pretty deep concentration.

13:09In a way, in surfing, we get to cheat. We get to that state almost more easily than anyone else, except maybe Yogananda, who lived in that state. But that's something that's been really intriguing to me for a long time. And I'm really thinking more and more about that. I'm actually working on another book right now dealing with exactly that.

13:50We will help you promote that book when it comes out. I don't suppose it's as simple as I ask Jerry Lopez, Tell me the three or four yoga poses that will improve my surfing. And I just do that. It's not that easy, I think, right? One of the real lessons in yoga is not in perfecting the pose, but it's embracing the process. That way it doesn't become a dead end of unfulfilled perfection, but an ongoing evolution of the whole process. And it's just yoga. It's something that everybody's different level of experience, just development. And you just hug the process and be happy with where it takes you.

14:43Okay. I'm friends with Sean Thompson and Sean once told me guy professional surfing there is no training like there is for football and basketball football and basketball offseason you're hitting the weights you're doing all this kind of stuff but surfers they just go out and surf and now you have yoga and every once in a while of course when you see a movie or documentary about surfing there's the scene where they're holding a rock and they're running underwater but is that true like why don't surfers go and really lift weights and do all that kind of stuff and train or am i just mistaken about that no the top guys all train now i mean they spend a lot of surfing the big waves, but even for the guys that are on the tour that are surfing smaller waves, they have to be top condition at the highest level of athleticism to do what they do.

15:57And injury is so close with especially the maneuvers and stuff that they do these days. They fly in the air and easy to get hurt. and when you're injured just like football or baseball if you can't come back and play you're out tell Sean he's wrong no I mean he's not wrong at all but that's true because there's really nothing except paddling a surfboard that gets you in shape for paddling a surfboard It was really interesting when I moved up here to Oregon, my son met these kids in school and we became friends with the parents. And I introduced them to surfing out on the Oregon coast here. And I was telling them the hardest part is paddling.

16:49And these kids took to surfing like I couldn't believe I'd never seen anybody do that, even top athletes. And I went, wow, what's the deal? How come they can paddle surfboards? I go, were you guys swim team guys? And they go, oh, we swam a little. Later on, I found out they were Nordic skiers. And Nordic skiing requires the same arm movements that paddling a surfboard does. And it was really interesting to me that, wow, there's some cross training for surfing that no one ever thought of. Wow. But that's the hard part. Surfing is 90 % paddling. When you don't do it, you lose it. So you got to keep doing it.

17:36So no, Sean is absolutely correct. All you can do is just go surfing as much as you can. I reached out to Sean. I said, Sean, I'm interviewing Jerry Lopez tomorrow. What should I ask him? And Sean says, ask him what kind of cake he was eating when he said pipeline is a cake walk.

18:01the pipeline was really a big part of my life and Sean's as well when he came over from South Africa he really liked that wave too and he was very skilled already and he adapted to it much quicker than many many guys that lived in Hawaii but when you surf a spot enough you get familiar with it Eventually, if that's what you're trying to do, you develop a relationship with it, a personal relationship. And I really always thought that my relationship with the pipeline was pretty deep and pretty special. And I got away with a lot of stuff that a lot of other guys didn't get away with. And eventually at the pipeline, everybody gets hurt.

18:53it's not if it's when and the more you push it eventually that's going to happen and I had to pay to play out there and I did willingly because I really enjoyed that spot just like Sean and all those guys they did too and they came at a time when the pipeline was just becoming a popular spot because back in the late 60s and the very early 70s, the place to surf on the North Shore was Sunset Beach. That was the challenging spot, and nobody came to the pipeline. It had a reputation. It had hurt a lot of people and had already killed one really good surfer from Peru. And so it had a specter about it, a reputation.

19:42And everybody went to sunset. And that's why I think I had a little bit of an advantage at the pipeline was because nobody was there. And I got to learn about that place without the big crowds. And then the attention started changing. Because not only was it really easy to photograph, but when the waves were good there, it looked really spectacular on film. and had my picture in a couple of surf movies. Before that, in the beginning days, when they started surfing, the pipeline was in the surf movies, but was always the wipeout section. And that was really mostly because the equipment, the surfboards weren't really suited to that wave.

20:29And it was our generation in the early 70s there, when the shortboards started coming, that we were able to develop equipment that worked there. and that gave us some success surfing the wave and then they showed it in the movies and then the next thing you know all the attention now is all on the pipeline and nobody even remembers Sunset Beach. In a sense isn't this Jeff Clark has Mavericks to himself for 15 years and now when you go out to maverick there's like 40 people out there or more or more yeah surfing was a small sport and because it is so attractive and appealing it's grown so rapidly none of us ever believed it was going to get as big as it has and sean had and his group were the first guys When they came around, they go, we're going to get paid to go surfing.

21:32Most guys in Hawaii, me and Barry Kanaiapuni, Tiger Esper, Eddie Ica, we looked at them and we laugh up. Hey, who's going to pay you to go surfing? Nobody's going to pay you. They were right. And they had some vision in regards to that surfing was going to grow and the industry was going to get on a footing where, like it is today, where they pay these top surfers a nice salary to go surfing. Jerry, a lot of people listening to this, they might not know, what the hell is he talking about, pipeline? And obviously it's a break and it's a place people surf, but at a higher, more metaphysical level.

22:15Can you explain what pipeline represents to surfing? What it's become in my lifetime is maybe one of the higher or if not highest level of surfing for any surfer to test himself, to test how much of a surfer he wants to be. It's become one of the ultimate waves. Yeah, the pipeline, like I said, started out as not a real popular spot. And suddenly the focus completely changed. And now it is considered one of the ultimate surfing spots in the world today. and just in my lifetime surfing went from a very small obscure sport that none of our parents wanted us to become surfers they wanted us to do something useful with our lives and we just we couldn't help ourselves and here I am 75 years old and I still that's all I want to do is go surfing as much as I can and I don't know I'm yeah I don't feel bad about that I actually feel good about it for any surfers out there listening what's the gist of how you successfully surf pipeline not that I'm gonna do this but just give us kind of the insights on how you conquered or maybe not conquer but how you sync with that wave in the beginning it looked so fast and so hollow and this was the reason that the old long boards had such difficulty there because the surfers were equally as skilled as any of the surfers are today but their equipment was holding them back As the boards improved, then the guys started having a lot more success and the surfboards have continued to improve.

24:16And today, these guys are at, like I said, such a high level of athleticism that they're able to ride surfboards that in my time, I would think, well, it's way too small a surfboard. But they are such good surfers now that they're able to do that on this wave. This wave that hasn't changed is still very fast. Their quick draw has gotten a lot quicker these days. there seems to be better shots when you see garrett mcnamara surf a hundred foot wave in nazaree or people at mavericks do you say that's not really surfing or that's the ultimate in surfing what's the difference between someone surfing nazaree and someone surfing pipeline it's all surfing and all of it is impressive on the top guys are just unbelievably impressive and even the guys i don't think i'd paddle out at nasa in fact i know i would and especially nowadays someone like garrett who pretty much pioneered the place he got a email from two portuguese surfers that said hey can you come over here and look at our wave and tell us what do you think because we think it's really a good wave and you know at first he I don't know and then finally he went and he looked and he went holy cow and so he was really the guy to pioneer that place and show the rest of the world how big a wave can be served and that's something else and you know in Europe Garrett McNamara is like a legend yeah because the Europeans they they take their sports heroes really seriously I mean even more than us guys over here especially the people in Hawaii but Garrett's a big deal for what he does you know and he made surfing which was already becoming big in Europe much bigger I watched the Patagonia documentary about you and you more or less freely admit that you got better and one of the methods was stealing a lot of waves what's your current thinking on surf etiquette these days is it like every man for himself or have you gotten mellower in your old age no you you know you gotta surf with aloha and but duke tried to tell us all us guys that in the beginning you know and we was young and stupid and of course surfing was like i said such a much smaller sport then but today it's busy and you can't get away with being a jerk anymore yeah it's all about learning how to not only live with aloha but especially to go when you go surfing to surf with aloha too i surf with a few people who don't have aloha and they're pretty good surfers and i'm i'm always wondering if i could surf as good as you i would be so freaking happy i'm like a beginner maybe advanced beginner and i'm so happy surfing and you're a much better surfer why are you angry what are you angry about i don't understand those people juror we have a a wave here in the river i don't know if you've ever heard of a river wave but i saw one in munich yeah that one which that one has because it's been surfed for so long they have some heavy localism issues there but we have a wave here in our little town in ben Oregon that when we go surfing in the summer you know I've wondered why everybody was having such a good time not everyone was having good time but everybody was happy and there was no tension and I was going why is that it's not like that in the ocean and I realized wow it's because everybody knows whose turn it is because you wait in line until it's your turn and in the ocean And you get so many guys that think, oh, not enough waves for me.

28:48That's why they was like me when I was young. Just take waves instead of share. And that's a real interesting part of surfing. Eventually, you learn, but sometimes it takes a long time. I always think that you get plenty of lessons in surfing. I was surfing like 20, 25 years before. It was like that was just a test to see if I was really interested. And then when surfing realized I was interested, then I started to understand that there's all this great stuff to learn and many very interesting parables about life. and while the waves of life may seem indeed more challenging to ride than the waves of the ocean when we apply the lessons learned in the surf we sometimes can find in a metaphorical sense the easier paddle out hooking into that rip current that lets us slide out smoothly through the closed out sets of day-to-day life and maybe even get to the outside lineup with our hair still dry that's a metaphor for life yes yes and that's that's one of the big lessons of surfing that you learn from the beginning but you don't really understand what you're learning and it takes a while to see that oh maybe the hawaiians were really on to something what yoga and surfing go back maybe thousands of years we don't know yoga we do they had Pantajali, he wrote the yoga sutras, but we didn't have somebody like that in Hawaii that was recording what the ancient Hawaiian surfers were all about.

30:35And it just may be that both those cultures are equally as ancient. I can tell you as someone who's been surfing nine years, that surfing is one of the hardest sports to learn. It is. And I think the hardest part of the hardest part is how do you pick a wave how do you pick where you sit i feel like when i'm out there trying to read the waves i'm blind and i'm trying to use braille i want from jerry lopez what goes through your mind how do you pick a wave first you got to see it coming it's all about paying attention just like in life and that's why i used to make these funny rules hey no talking in a lineup because you get distracted and then the set comes and you get caught inside and all surfers no matter how long they've been surfing and how good they are you're going to get caught inside and that's there's a great lesson to be learned from that but when you're out in the lineup you don't want to get caught inside you want to be where the waves are and that's hard to do because no more signposts out there no more place to mark the lineup and it really all comes back to paying attention and it's just repetition you have to just like sean thompson said you gotta just go all the time and each time you go you don't even realize it but you are learning things and eventually it's like you get little bites every day little advances every day and then And one day, all of a sudden, something happens.

32:17For what reason, you don't know. But you get a big bite on you. Wow. And that's the light bulb moment where, oh, I really learned something today. But then the next day, you forget it. You've got to relearn it again. And that's the beauty and the downside of surfing. That's why it's so hard. Up next on Remarkable People. I think John was a great mentor to both of us. And not only do we have, all of us have a whole lot of fun making that movie, but he really got Arnold and I through that. Arnold went on to a brilliant film career. And I think that John Milius really had a lot to do with that.

33:06If you find our show valuable, please do us a favor and subscribe, rate, and review it. Even better, forward it to a friend. A big mahalo to you for doing this. Welcome back to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. Two years ago, I lost my hearing. And now I have a cochlear implant. So with the cochlear implant, obviously we've been having this conversation. But you cannot use a cochlear implant in the water. And I got this cochlear implant about a year ago. So basically when I'm in the water, I'm essentially deaf. And then I read your rule about not talking in the lineup. Pay attention. I think being deaf has helped me become a better surfer because I cannot talk in the lineup because I cannot hear.

33:57That's my theory. In surfing, you got to use all your senses. And like I said, attention is the main thing that you have to constantly be on top of. But hearing comes into effect when you're surfing big waves because sometimes you see a set coming and you think, wow, maybe to get one big one outside. And then you hear it already breaking and you know you're in trouble. And you know if you don't catch the first one that's right there, you're going to be in bigger trouble. That's the only time that you really need your hearing in surfing. well jerry just to be transparent a big wave for me is four feet and so when the waves are bigger the only thing i'm surfing is a couch okay just fyi yeah but surfing is such a compelling sport it's gonna suck you in just like it sucks everyone else and pretty soon oh yeah five feet is good and then pretty soon wow i want to be out there when it's six feet before you know it you might be scheduling a trip to mavericks my daughter surfs at mavericks and she has caught a wave and she's been towed in and all that and i gotta tell you the thought of that just scares the shit out of me so much i won't even go and watch her surf could not handle watching her surf at mavericks it would be wow that's very impressive okay completely switching gears how did you get the part of sabotai in conan the barbarian that's a lot of left field how did that happen i worked on a movie called big wednesday that john millius co-wrote and directed and we became friends and later on when he took on the Conan project, he rewrote the script.

35:58Oliver Stone had written a script that John wanted to improve on and so he rewrote the script and wrote in this part and sent the script to me and goes, what do you think? He goes, I want you to play the part of Subutai and I read the script and went, oh my God, this is like a big part. I can't act. He said, don't worry. You'll be fine. And Arnold couldn't act either. But I think John was a great mentor to both of us. And not only do we have all of us have a whole lot of fun making that movie, but he really got Arnold and I through that. And And Arnold went on to a brilliant film career. And I think that John Milius really had a lot to do with that.

36:53Is Arnold a good guy? You know, it's hard to tell from the outside who's a good guy, who's an asshole as an actor. He's great. Arnold is awesome. They kept delaying the start date on Conan. And we were doing some sword training with a Japanese instructor from Anaheim, Yamasaki-san. And so Arnold and I got to spend almost a year together before we actually went to Spain and started to work on the movie. And I think he's a great guy. I thought he was a great governor, too. Yeah. Yeah. I'd vote for him for president. I would too. I was going to say that. Okay. You're 75, Jerry. Have you like transitioned from short boards to long boards or are you still a short board ripper?

37:52I ride them all. I'll ride anything I can. I like all the ways you can ride a wave. I even like body surfing. But there's all these new sports, kite surfing and wing surfing and foil surfing. They're all equally as compelling and challenging and attractive as surfing is. But it always comes back to surfing. Yeah. Just like you, you know, you hear about a good swell or some good wave somewhere. And you're thinking, OK, what do I got to do to go surfing? So Madison and I live in Santa Cruz and there's a theory that you start in Cowles and you end in Cowles. So would you say that's true of Queens?

38:40You start at Queens, you end at Queens? I'll tell you what, when stand-up surfing came, I really got into it, especially here in Oregon where the water is super cold and the waves are hard to catch. and it was because of stand-up surfing that I rediscovered Waikiki, the joy and even much deeper than that, what the ancient Hawaiians, they used to call that area in front, the outrigger reef, Kauaihewehe and that was where they went when they weren't feeling good, when they were ill or sick or just not feeling right. They would go there and just go in the water and they felt that would make them feel better and so with the stand-up boards we started touring Waikiki area again because he you have all that mobility with the stand-up board and we start out right there paddle out from in front the hot rigger reef there go out to number threes or pops and then we'd look up and ah let's go cruise let's go check out Publix and then from Publix let's go to the old man's.

39:47Hey, Publix. Yeah, you know, and then next thing you know, we're at Tongs. And then, wow, a long way from Waikiki. That whole area was really special to me growing up. And it just was really wonderful to renew that specialness with Waikiki. And I still encourage every surfer, no matter how good they think they are, I go Waikiki because that's where it really all started and just feel it. it's interesting in Santa Cruz anyway many of the surfers look down on paddleboard paddleboarding and paddle surfing and what I've noticed is that the really good surfers like you like Bob Pearson to them it's like surfing is surfing and paddleboarding is just as good as prone surfing there's no pecking order and we shouldn't let paddleboarders in here because what they can catch the wave further outside it's kind of the surfers that think they are better than they are that have that attitude i've always been like that yeah but like i said there's plenty ways to ride a wave and might as well try them all you might find one that you like better than the other you know and they're all great but a surfboard is still the greatest it's simple it's the most simple one And there's a real beauty in that simplicity that just you and you got to have wetsuit when you stay in the mainland, but just a surfboard, a pair of shorts, and Waikiki, that's all you need.

41:35Yep. Yep. Are you still shaping boards? I am. Yes. And can anybody order one? Yeah. With COVID, I took a break. COVID was weird. it really disrupted all of our lives and it's just coming on the other side of it what happened when COVID hit was that everybody wanted surfboards and the surfboard industry went crazy and it was if you weren't doing all the work yourself it was really hard to get if you were just a customer it was really hard to find surfboards but if you were a shaper like me it was hard to get your surfboards glass because everything was in big demand that's turned completely upside down now and the surfboard industry is in one of the biggest slumps it's been in in my lifetime and i don't know what's gonna happen but yeah i still love shaping surfboards and building them and i still do it yeah people can get boards from me so so i can order like a 11 foot glider from you or is that beneath you to make a long board like that that's my secret weapon the glider okay i'm ordering right now i want an 11 foot glider from you okay just tell me how much and where to send the money i have two gliders that i make with surf deck which is started as a santa cruz company too that are really beautiful that i enjoy riding very very much and those are easy because you don't have to wait if you order a board for me gotta wait till i get in the shaping room and then get them shaped even me even i have to wait every even i gotta wait yeah i haven't made myself too many new surfboards these days okay i gotta to ask you this what's the deal with the jerry lopez wavestorm board oh the costco board yeah yeah it was a way to have a cheap surfboard that people that don't want to spend a thousand dollars two thousand dollars to get one of my surfboards to try surfing and there's been i got a lot of flack about that but i always felt that just like duke hey duke honomoku traveled the world to share the gift of surfing with a lot of people when he went to australia that was in what 1915 or something that he went down there and he saw he was in sydney for some swimming exhibition and he saw good waves and he went wow and so he tracked down a big piece of pine wood and made himself a surfboard and then when the surfboard was foul he went surfing and you know all the people were watching going wow and they still have that surfboard really it's in the freshwater surf life-saving club and i looked at that board and went oh that's not that big a board because part of that story is that he rode a couple waves in all the way to the beach and then he came in and he asked some young girl her name was isabel latham and he asked her if she would like to accompany him out and ride a wave in with him and so she went sure and so he paddled out tandem with her they caught a wave and they both stood up and rode all the way to the beach and that's how surfing started in australia which surfing is huge in australia yeah these days but the duke was that was what he did he shared the gift of surfing with people you know now like we were talking about earlier plenty serving ah we don't like any more surfers get too many already but surfing is a beautiful thing that that should be shared and the whole deal with that costco board was to make an affordable surfboard so that people could try it and see what it is that people like you and i live for why we live for it and i never thought that my name and your name would be in a sentence together about surfing so my life is complete now jerry so and you know what like my attitude on that costco board is god bless him i hope he makes millions of dollars like that right well you know what it was your guys fault in santa cruz because the first year costco when they're looking at a new product like that they do a test run and they put them in certain stores and it was the costco you guys have in santa cruz then all of a sudden the guys went oh these things are selling like hotcakes here and then that's when they put in their order seriously so it's your guy's fault oh when this episode comes out there's going to be protests in front of that costco and i won't be able to get in to buy my hot dogs anymore it's gonna change my life So, Jerry, what do you think about holding like WSL or even Olympic events in a wave pool?

47:15I mean, it seems to me that so much of surfing is about figuring out where to sit, when to go, all that kind of stuff. And some of those variables are not exactly there like in the ocean. So do you think that's a bastardization of the sport or figure skating in the Olympics? The ice is perfect. Every rink is kind of the same. And so you compete not on the conditions and reading the ice. So which way do you fall on wave pools and competitive surfing? I think the wave pools are an absolute definite part of the future of surfing. That you know what it's like in most lineups, especially the good lineups, that it's busy, it's crowded and there's tension.

48:03And the thing we talked about earlier about how you go to a wave pool, everybody knows whose turn it is. Right. And everybody has a good time. So that's the experience of surfing that I'm sure that Duke Hanamoku was trying to promote all over the world. I just don't think that he had any idea that surfing was going to grow as large and certainly not as fast as it did and become how it is now, which is crowded. Not enough wave for everybody or me, whereas in a wave pool, everybody takes turns. and the level of surfing the few events that they've had at the surf ranch is incredible and i don't think there's any one of those surfers that would say this is not a good place to have a surf contest okay and the karma factor is taken out of the equation it's not like a lot of times in surf contests sometimes the last good wave doesn't come for the guy that all he needs is one more ride but in the wave pool it levels the the playing field a little more so everybody gets good chance and obviously that's not going to be the only place they have surfing competitions but i think it's if they have good waves have you been to the surf ranch yet no i've been invited it many times but I'm afraid to go because if I go and I fall in love I just have been going all the time and I don't need any more distractions in my life it's just like I said like all the different ways to ride a wave this is just another one of them and when you get there and you see that holy cow they're creating this wave in a pool you can't believe it you really can't believe it that such a unbelievable wave can happen in a big swimming pool okay two more questions all right so i got lopez rules the the first four are surf to surf tomorrow pace yourself don't talk in the lineup and the fifth one is best surfer is the one who's having the most fun so now with hindsight you got any more rules or different interpretation of the rules has anything changed about the lopez rules no i mean those rules i feel are still valid but the the bottom line of all of it is keep paddling and not only in a literal sense because otherwise the next time you go surfing you're going to be all out of shape but certainly in a metaphorical sense okay great i gotta tell you a little story so i go to make this speech for bob reef right and at the end of the speech he presents me with a Jerry Lopez lightning bolt board.

51:23This is a gift for making that speech. So this is the most valuable board I have, right? Jerry Lopez, it's even signed to me. So during the pandemic, I used to do a lot of virtual talks and all over the world. So sometimes I'm talking at three, four, five, 6 a.m. So one day after I got the board, I decided in my talk, I was going to put it behind me. so that I can show you how cool I am. I surf. I don't know if I'm a surfer. But anyway, there's a freaking Jerry Lopez board behind me as I give this speech. And this is like 5 a.m., okay, I figure. And I lean it against the door because that just happened with the camera.

52:07That was the best place to put it. He opened the door and the board fell down. 6 a.m., I figure what could go wrong. I don't know why because my son has never gotten up at 6 a.m. in the morning in his life. He opens the door, board fell down and there's two dings in it. And, and this board has never been waxed, never been used, but it's got two dings. It's hanging on my wall. And ever since that day, I've been wondering, what should I do? Should I just put two decals on it and cover it? Should I ask some local board guy to fix it? Should I ask Bob if I can send it back to Jerry to fix it? Should I ask Bob if I can send it back to Jerry?

52:53And Jerry just circles it in signs. It's okay, guy. No problem. Leave the ding. So I've been thinking about this for years. Seriously. So now I'm talking to the Jerry Lopez who made that board. Leave him. Now it is a great story. So maybe I should leave the ding. Two little trophies. What do you advise me to do about the two things in my Jerry Lopez board? Oh, what about these? And then you can tell them the story. Really? And then when your son comes, he looks at those things and goes, oh, boy. He's going to shake his head. But you know what we should do, Guy? We got to tell Bob, hey, we got to get Guy the 10-6 glider.

53:38so when he goes out at Cowles, he can sit outside by the guys with the stand-up boards and he can catch all the waves he like and never miss one. Yeah! Yeah!

53:54Just tell me how much you want. Start today. Call up US foam. Order the blank. I would do that in a second, Jerry. Although, another funny story is i gave a speech for a company in santa barbara and as a gift they gave me this yader spoon and this is a triple stringer yader spoon beautiful board it's got wood tail wood nose the block yeah it's just beautiful so i bring it home to santa cruz and the guys i surf with and my family they tell me you're not gonna surf that board that board is too beautiful Just put it on the wall. So that board has never been ridden. And then I decided that when I die and there's a paddle out for me, hopefully, I'm going to have my ashes paddle out on that Yader because finally I get to ride the Yader.