Jennifer Welch: Outspoken, Unapologetic, and Unafraid in Divided America

28:39And that would happen within one minute. Within one minute. So, Oklahoma is an incredibly, incredibly religious state. And there are churches everywhere. And these churches preach this prosperity gospel. Then attached to the prosperity gospel, it dovetails to capitalism plus republicanism. And all of these things are very wrapped up together. And there's a very tribal white culture in red states. Racism is still very prevalent. I would say you're fundamentally different. Now, that's the triple Trumpers. A person that maybe was a Mitt Romney, a John McCain-style Republican, you would have a lot more in common with.

29:26But the people who have gone to vote for this man after they've seen what he does, and they see how he treats women, and they see how he treats human beings, and they see how he treats the office of the presidency, and they've done that, you would not have that much in common. And they would look at your skin guy and your last name Kawasaki and immediately think that you weren't American. And that kind of tribalism is very, very real in red states. Not in the cities, not in the cities, but outside of the cities. It's very, very real. They'll be like, where are you from? So you're not American?

30:06That kind of shit. This may seem like a loaded question, but Jennifer, does anybody's approval still matter to you? I know there's Pumps, there's Roman, there's Dylan. Other than those three people, do you care? Do you give a shit anymore? No, absolutely not. Because I think as you get older, what's more my North Star than anything is when my head hits the pillow at night. It's me. Like, you spend a lot of time in your 20s and 30s really worried about what everybody thinks about you and seeking other people's approval to fill you up. And now I want to approve of myself. I want to be okay with what I'm saying, what I'm doing, walking my own path.

30:55And we know as human beings, we have intuition, you know, and you're like, fuck, you were kind of being a bitch there. Or God, that probably wasn't right. God knows I've spent enough money on therapy to know how to regulate myself. And so I think now that I'm 51, it's been liberating to not seek the approval of others. I've really felt unshackled by that because I don't think that's important. I think it's more important that you judge yourself in a really honest way and quit lying to yourself. And when your head hits the pillow at night, you can take personal inventory and think, okay, you could do better there, girl.

31:36Or, you know, that was great. And continue and continue. I think that that's, for me, at the stage of life that I'm at right now, is more important to me than what other people think. Like I said at the very start, you're just betting on yourself, right? That's at the extreme here. So I also, I noticed the concept in your book of the gratitude list. So I don't want people to get this impression that you're just calling everybody out and, you know, you're hatted with everything. So what's on your gratitude list, Jennifer? I mean, first and foremost, I'm really grateful that my husband is sober.

32:12My husband, Josh, like so many Americans, suffered from just really horrible addiction, a really traumatizing childhood. Josh is a wonderful person, but he struggled with alcoholism and then also fell prey to the opioid epidemic. And sobriety was really hard for him, especially for a lot of opiate addicts. Opiates really get their claws in you. And it was a really difficult time when he was struggling with his addiction because it was a time when I was younger, before I had a husband and kids, that I would fantasize about. Like, one day I'm going to be married and I'm going to be a young mom and I'm going to have kids.

32:50And in that fantasy guy, I always thought about my husband or my love interest of it being this really joyful thing. And for anybody, any of your listeners that have ever loved an addict, it's a real mindfuck when you associate your love with somebody and that love for them causes you pain. It's a really, really difficult thing. So I went through a lot when my kids were really young in our 30s because he would, like a lot of addicts, there's no quick fix for addiction. There just isn't. It takes what it takes. He would get sober. He'd be sober a couple of years. The light would come and shine down on all of us, and he's this wonderful, smart, sensitive, amazing person.

33:34And then the dark passenger would come back out again, and he would relapse. And, you know, you have these two young kids that love their dad, but you knew you had to get your kids away from him. And it was really, really difficult. It was excruciating. It really, as tough as I am, it took me to my knees, his addiction. And he's sober now, and he has a great relationship with me and with our boys. And first and foremost, I am so grateful for sobriety and that he didn't succumb to the disease of addiction like so many people do and end up dead. And I always want to use my platform when I'm not browbeating the fuck out of Trump to normalize addiction.

34:22Addicts do not choose to be addicts. And we don't really choose who we love. Life is complicated. Addiction is complicated. Relationships are so excruciatingly complicated. And sometimes we find ourselves loving broken people. And that breaks us. or we were broken when we found them and we tried to fix ourselves. And so my biggest gratitude, hands down, is that my husband is sober. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but your status is, I never heard these two words together before, but happily divorced. Is that the current situation? Yeah, so I think it was 2013. And it's weird, Josh and I just went on vacation together.

35:10We went on a Valentine's Day vacation together without our kids because they're both in college. And he actually brought this up to me, Guy. He said, I've been thinking a lot about the time that he was staying in a hotel because I kicked him out of the house. It was 2013. He was just so fucked up on drugs. It was sad. And I begged him to go to rehab. I mean, begged, begged, screamed. I was anybody who's tried to talk to an addict, you feel like you're losing your mind. You're just kind of unhinged. He's like, no, no, no, no. So I had Angie Pumps draft divorce papers. And I took the divorce papers to the hotel that he was at.

35:45And I said, I need for you to sign these papers. If you won't go to rehab, I'm going to divorce you. And we got in this big row. And he signed them. And he was not very nice. He was really hateful, actually. And so we were just in Mexico for our little Valentine's dinner. And he kind of grabbed my hand. And this is so much growth, I can't even tell you that we're able to do this right now because our relationship's been so tumultuous. But it's a testament to how good his recovery is right now. And he grabbed my hand and he said, I'm really sorry for that day that you brought the divorce papers and all you were trying to do was save our family.

36:21And I was such a dick. And he said, I think about that all the time. And I hadn't thought about it in a while. But when he said that, I could feel like this lump in my throat. And I cried so much about his addiction. I don't cry very often anymore. I just don't. I maybe cry once annually, maybe. It made me really, really emotionally tough. And I could feel that like, oh my God, am I about to cry? Like, maybe I'm not a sociopath anymore. And it was really sweet. And so he ended up getting sober after that in probably 2015. And he's been sober since then. And we've been back together, but we haven't like legally married.

36:59And we call each other husband and wife, but our divorce was a symptom of his disease. It's like a side effect. Like if you were to say, okay, if you have cancer, these are the side effects of it. When you have addiction, it's you lose your job, you lose your wife, you lose your kids. And it was a symptom of his disease. But I consider us very much married, and so does he. When you were discussing your husband in the book, you told a story that I was just absolutely floored by. And I'm going to ask you to tell this story. And I think it shows a great deal of humility on your part. And by now, you're probably guessing what the story is, right?

37:40So, the story is, of course, when he came home one day and said that his therapist suggested a ketamine therapy. And tell us what happened after that and what you learned. Okay, so this is probably about 2019, listener. And so I'd been to family weeks, I'd been to rehabs, I'd done all this shit. I'd been to Al-Anon meetings. And I was like, I'm so fucking sick of this shit. I'd been to therapy a bunch myself. Josh was still tortured. Like, that's the thing. Like, sometimes somebody gets sober, and then the numbing is gone, but they're still so tortured. And he was wonderful, but very tortured.

38:18So he comes home from his therapy session. He says, hey, Dr. Camp Schaefer thinks that I should do ketamine therapy. And I was like, fuck you. I can't believe Dr. Camp Schaefer said that. You want to go fucking take drugs? That's so classic, you fucking addict. No, you piece of shit, blah, blah. I mean, just went psychotic. Not a great moment for me, right? But anybody who has loved an addict can relate. It can just trigger you like that. And Josh, to his credit, he was like, okay, okay, like you're my priority. My sobriety is my priority. I have a book here that he sent home. If you ever want to read it, I was like, oh, yeah, like hell, I'm ever going to read that.

38:54And he was really cool about it. Like he didn't push me, didn't probe me. So then like, I think it's like a month later, I'm watching 60 Minutes before Barry Weiss and MAGA took over 60 Minutes back when it was good. And Anderson Cooper comes on and he's like, psychedelics to treat addiction. It's like this thing. And there's John Hopkins University and Harvard and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, oh, fuck. And Anderson Cooper goes into this thing. And you have to know from not being raised with religion, I really revere science. And I revere research. And I think that's the gold standard.

39:27And I believe that when you have a body of evidence that always points to something, that's something we need to look at. So Anderson Cooper goes in that people are taking like psilocybin or sometimes ketamine. It's treating addiction. It's treating personality disorders, OCD, anxiety. And I'm just like, oh, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. And then I creep out to Josh, like tiptoe out. I'm like, I owe you a huge apology. And he's like, what? I was just like, the whole thing with you and Dr. Camp Schaefer and the ketamine. I was just watching Anderson Cooper. You guys were 100 % right.

40:03Please give me the book. I'm going to read about it. I want you to be better. I'm sorry I was so psycho. And he was so sweet. He was like, I understand. I created that in you. like went to five different family weeks. That's totally normal. So I read about it. And then Josh went and got ketamine therapy in Oklahoma from a doctor, intravenous ketamine therapy. And he was able to stop taking SSRIs. And that really, really helped him. Like it was the one thing I think that has contributed to his sustained sobriety that he has right now, because he had so much childhood trauma, he couldn't process it.

40:39He couldn't stay sober and process this trauma without feeling debilitating anxiety and depression. And the psychedelic therapy, there's a great documentary on Netflix that I watched too before he started doing it. And it's called like How to Train Your Brain or something like this. It's really excellent for anybody, any of your listeners that know somebody that suffers from depression or addiction or some sort of personality disorder. There are a lot of options out there because the thing is like Alcoholics Anonymous has like a 7 % success rate. That's not very good. And so there's a lot of different ways for people to get sober and sustain sobriety.

41:16So yeah, here's the thing about Jennifer Welch. I am a passionate person, but when I'm wrong, I tuck my tail between my legs, put on my big girl panties and own it. And, you know, and I'm glad that he has done ketamine therapy because it's made him more his true self. It really has. But I got to tell you, that is one of the most powerful stories I've ever read because it's just the absolute humility of, you know, I fully thought it was like, yeah, my husband said, I've got to try ketamine. And you told him you're crazy. You're a drug addict. You're going to get on another drug. And next thing you know, you're Elon Musk or something, but you owned up to it, right?

41:55You owned up to the fact that you were wrong. And I just hope it It wasn't Peter Attia that was on 60 Minutes. But anyway, that's a different story. Up next on Remarkable People. A part of me kind of wants to debate with Tucker. Like, I would kind of like to have that conversation. Joe Rogan, I don't think Joe Rogan is very smart. He just goes on a really long time. I'm not impressed with Joe Rogan. Tucker Carlson is a complete piece of shit. Let me just say that first and foremost. But Tucker Carlson is very politically savvy.

42:37Become a little more remarkable with each episode of Remarkable People. It's found on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Welcome back to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. so i have to say jennifer i say with great pride that the first person to drop an f-bomb on my podcast was margaret atwood and i thought it was going to be gary vaynerchuk but it was margaret atwood and without any question you have broken the record on remarkable people So for the number of times a person has said, fuck. Now, and I have a deep question here. So what is your philosophical approach to profanity?

43:27Is it like a mark of rebellion? Is it the precision of what you want to say? Or is it performative? Or is it just you're 51 and you don't give a fuck anymore? You know, I wish there was some deep component to it. The fact of the matter is I've always kind of been a cusser. I really have. I enjoy colorful language. I enjoy descriptive language. And sometimes an F-bomb, there's just nothing better than that. And I've always kind of been a cusser. I can refrain from it. But I heard you drop a couple, and I was like, oh, it's green lights. Let's go, baby. So then I was just like, I was unleashed. My host did it, then unleashed the beast.

44:09It's F-bombs for everybody. But I like colorful language. I like adjectives and I love a good F-bomb. It's just that simple. It's like my flavor of speaking. Okay. You can sense a kind of baseline level of outrage in me as I can sense a baseline level of outrage in you. Are you ever concerned that, oh my God, this outrage is going to consume me, like I'm going to define my life as being anti-Trump and saying fuck all the time? Do you ever think about that? No, because I'm really good about the following. When I come in and film, I am Jennifer the Podcaster, and that's how you know me. When I stop filming, I go play tennis.

44:52I spend time with my dogs. I talk to my sons. I spend time with my husband. We don't talk about Trump, and we don't let it rule our lives. And of course, it'll come up. Like, you know, my son, my older son is in law school right now, and he might be like, oh my God, you see the Supreme Court did this, and we'll have a conversation about it. But the rage that you see me and the outrage that I have on the podcast, I don't live in that moment all the time. That's just me doing my job as a podcaster, my life outside of that character. I believe everything I say and I believe everything I do in that podcast through and through, every molecule, every fiber of me.

45:31But I'm not in that state from wake until I go to bed. I talk and do talk about a lot of other things and do a lot of other things and enjoy so many other things that I think that the only regret about any of that is that's the way people are going to think I am all the time. But I'm really not like my husband always compliments me. He's like, you're able to just go bitch about all this Trump stuff and you come home and you're in a great mood and we don't even talk about it. I'm like, I can't. I couldn't do this job if I was in that state all the time or I would be in rehab. Like, I don't think I could do it sober if I was that mad all the time.

46:10Madison and I will send you some mushrooms from California. Oh, yeah, the psilocybin. That's one of the ones you have to watch this documentary guy called How to Train Your Brain or something like this. Jennifer, until about two or three years ago, I always used to wonder, how did the people of Germany let Hitler take over? And then in the last couple of years, I say, oh, I get it now. I can see how it can be done. When you see the standing ovations at the State of the Union and you see all these people supporting him, do you think these politicians actually believe the shit they're saying or they're just saying it to stay in his good graces?

46:48I think some of them do. I think a lot of them, their ambitions are as stupid as this sounds to own the libs. like they have been raised on Fox News and raised in a church that preaches hellfire, damnation, and black and white worldviews. And some of them do kind of think that. I think a lot of them know he's a piece of shit, but they like power. But I, like you, I went to Dachau. My sister used to live in Germany. And I went to Dachau when I was probably about 15 or 16, concentration camp. And it really left an impression upon me. And so I read a lot about World War II and the Holocaust and watched every documentary there is, and I always thought the same thing as you.

47:31And I even dove into the psychology of everyday Germans that went along. You know, we always think Hitler or Goebbels. But the only reason that was possible was because of all of these everyday Germans that went along with it. And I have to say, living in the Bible belt has helped me understand how people do this, because people associate religion with goodness. Like these religious people must be good people. We attribute these things to them unfairly. Some religions are that way, and some religious people are that way for sure. White evangelicals in the Bible Belt are some of the meanest people you will ever meet.

48:08It surprises me zero that they are 100 % on board with Trump, 100 % on board with the cruelty, because you have to understand from the time they were very little, they were told, you're not good, you're not worthy, the only way you'll be good is if you accept Jesus. And then I remember growing up, I had all these religious friends, and they were always paranoid that there were like demons in the room and the spiritual warfare stuff going on. And so it's those people that have been saturated in this uber, uber white culture that feeds their grievances, that feeds their nationality. And when you don't have a lot of culture in like some of these vast red states, two things become the dominant cultural items.

48:51Number one, your faith, and number two, your nationality. So that's all they have is church and being American. And then you enter this demagogue, and they'll do anything for him. And Trump told us, he said, I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, and my supporters would still like me. And he was 100 % spot on on that. Okay, I'm going to lighten up to finish this a little. I respect you not only for all those beliefs, but also as a podcaster and as a media figure. So I got to ask you some tactical stuff, right? Okay. First of all, where does Jennifer Welch get her news? Oh, my gosh. So I have an app called Ground News.

49:32They're a sponsor of our show, and they're great. And it's really helpful. I'm a reader. I don't really watch. Like, I've been an interior designer for 25 years. I don't watch design shows. I'm a podcaster now. I do not listen to podcasts at all. So I scan the news. Like, you know how Apple News will aggregate all of the news for you. And then I go to independent news sources like DropSite News or Zeteo. I'll scan Twitter begrudgingly. But I only have a list that I've made. Like, so I don't see Elon's white nationalist feed. I just see a list of people that I put on a list that I can—journalists and people who are snarky and funny and fighters of the moment.

50:14So potpourri of places that I get my news. Do you follow Katie Drummond? I don't Oh, you must follow Katie Drummond She's the boss of Wired And what she's done with Wired is truly amazing It used to be just a magazine for nerds But now it's taken on much greater social implications So Katie Drummond How about Heather Cox Richardson? Love I love her I love her Which brings me to my next question which is if somebody said to me, Guy, you have a magic bullet, you can get anybody you want. First, I would have said Jennifer Welch, but I got you. So second on my list would be Heather Cox Richardson.

50:57I think she's just phenomenal. Yeah. So now, who is your dream guest that you haven't had? Oh, my God. Larry David. Larry David. Curb Your Enthusiasm is my absolute favorite television show. I could watch every episode a million times. That kind of dry, irreverent humor is my favorite. I would love to have Larry David on the show. Okay, so now you've had Barack Obama. You've had Sanders, not the football player Barry, but the Senator Sanders. You've had Kamala Harris. You've had Gavin Newsom. How hard could it be to get Larry David? It's hard. Why? I don't know. He doesn't like to do interviews.

51:41And here's the thing. maybe it's good that he said no, because I think I would be so starstruck. I would be nervous. I would be all of the things. And so it's probably good that he has said no, because I would probably completely embarrass myself. But I think he's so smart. Do you watch Curb Your Enthusiasm? I am now, but I haven't. Oh, my God. It's hilarious. It's so good. It's smart, irreverent comedy. It's so good. Jennifer, I don't think you need to worry about freezing up if Larry David came on your show. That is not going to happen. All right. So now, opposite question. Would you entertain having someone like Mike Johnson or Lindsey Graham or Jim Jordan on your show?

52:26Or are they so despicable you wouldn't touch them? I've thought about this. I've really thought about this. I thought about recently Marjorie Taylor Greene because she's been making this huge rebrand. And I'm mixed on that. I'm mixed on if that's helpful or not helpful. And so I would say my answer to this is TBD. Like, right now, like, Mike Johnson, I have no interest in talking to because everything he says is for an audience of one for Trump. Marjorie Taylor Greene's kind of bucked him. And she has said that she was radicalized and indoctrinated. I mean, she said that recently. But then she also still does this, like, there are two genders.

53:07And, you know, she really still plays patty cake with a lot of bigotry. But I think that could potentially be a good conversation. I don't know about that. I've thought about that guy, and I don't have a good answer for that. Okay, opposite question. What happens, God forbid, if Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson calls and says, will you come on my show? Oh, my God. That's a great question. Oh, my God. Tucker Carlson. A part of me kind of wants to debate with Tucker. Like, I would kind of like to have that conversation. Joe Rogan, I don't think Joe Rogan is very smart. He just goes on a really long time.

53:47I'm not impressed with Joe Rogan. Tucker Carlson is a complete piece of shit. Let me just say that first and foremost. But Tucker Carlson is very politically savvy. And he's built this incredible audience. So I don't know what I would do there either. Those are great questions. And I would really have to make a pro and con list. And I would think probably at the end of the day, I wouldn't. Because when I am featured on Fox News, and it's not good. It's always in a very bad light when they're talking about me, which is fine. I don't care. I'm a big girl. Say what you want to say about me. But I do get a lot of hate mail and death threats.

54:25And it's a dangerous thing in Trump's America to be a very opinionated woman. And you get a lot of threats of sexual violence. You get a lot of death threats. And it's always when the conservatives are covering me is when all of that happens. So probably for a safety issue and for my sons, as intriguing as it would be, I would probably say no. Okay. Now, what happens if Barry Weiss in 60 Minutes calls and says, we want to do a special about you guys because you have done so well? And, you know, is that? No. I would tell Barry Weiss, go fuck yourself immediately. And I would want a phone call and I would want to record it so I could then publish that so that she could continue to be publicly humiliated over and over and over and over and over again.

55:11What she has done to CBS and to 60 Minutes and to all of these brave journalists and when she spiked that story about CECOD, about our administration, sending people that are not criminals that had paperwork issues to be tortured in El Salvador. and she spiked that story. Barry Weiss can go fuck herself. It would be a no, no, no. Jennifer, do you have a producer who's holding a sign up out of my view that's saying, Jennifer, take it easy. Cool it. Shut the fuck up, Jennifer. No, the sign wouldn't help. Okay, okay, okay. Just a few more tactical questions. Number one, are you a signal believer?

55:55Do you use signal? Signal the app? Yeah, I have people that message me on Signal. I'm fine with Signal, but I also think like, I know that I'm sure that I'm on some list somewhere for speaking out against the administration. If they want to hack my phone and see all the tennis videos and French bulldog videos that I like or that I said, yeah, Trump sucks. I mean, I don't really have any secrets. I've already written a book about my and my husband, all of our shit that we've been through. It's not pretty. so you know jennifer let me give you a piece of advice you and pumps should be communicating with each other on signal i promise you just okay we can talk about this offline you need to embrace signal of all people in the world you need signal okay so okay so now we know that you're doing texting text messaging with not so much privacy.

56:49Personal question, violating all HIPAA. Are you still using beta blockers or now you just go out there and let it rip so you don't need beta blockers? No beta blockers. That was just like our first tour that we were on. Okay. Second to the last question. This is hit it or had it. So hit it or had it, filibuster rule. I mean, I want the filibuster. If the Democrats get the Senate again, I want there to be no filibuster. So I'm kind of like, if it benefits what I want to happen, I just think there's so much about the federal government that needs to be changed. I think the fact that California has only two senators and you have 60 million people and Oklahoma has two senators and we have three million people.

57:34I think that's so stupid. I mean, California is so severely underrepresented. Maybe we'll secede. How about the necessity for two-sided journalism? The problem with that is the way it's being used right now is a false equivalency. They're using it as two-sided journalism as a means to sanewash and normalize fascism and bigotry and misogyny. And so I think it's a real false equivalency the way like CNN or any other major corporate news outlet uses it. So essentially you've had it, right? Oh, yes, had it. Okay. How about my last hit it or had it, James Tallarico? So I've watched this Texas race a little bit.

58:22I haven't really done a story about it between Tallarico and Crockett, because fundamentally, I think that they're both going to probably vote and do the same. Tallarico's a little bit too religious for my personal tastes, his campaign style with all of the quoting of scripture. I think it's because I have so much red state trauma and living around all of these uber, uber religious people. But I also think it could be a good reminder to these Christians that voted for Trump three times that, hey, the central character of the Bible was kind of like this radical empath, like he wasn't the way you're voting.

58:59So James Tallarico would be good to do that. I can't either hit it or had it with James Tallarico. I think I like him, but there's something, I don't know what it is. I have a spidey sense about him that something is off. And I don't know what that is. If he is the Democratic nominee. I hope he wins. I hope Texas has a blue senator. I want that more than anything on the planet. Just a personal thing. And it's probably just my own religious trauma that causes me to have a little bit of pause about him. But I want him to win. If he beats Jasmine in the primary, I want him to win. If Jasmine beats him, I want her to win.

59:33All right. Since we're on the topic of Texas, you would appreciate this. I met a woman who started an organization in Texas. And the organization is MAGA, M-A-G-A, and it stands for Mothers Against Greg Abbott. So I thought you'd appreciate that of all people. And again, there's so many, so many blue dots in Texas. I mean, there's just so many great liberals in red states, so many. Jennifer, at the end of your life, God forbid, what happens? Oh, you don't believe in God, so you're not worried about that. But you know, what happens if God does exist and you're up there at the pearly gates and God is looking at us and saying, Jennifer, you said you don't believe me.

1:00:19You said fuck all the time. You did all this. What are you going to say to her? Because I think God is a black woman. I mean, I just think that would be such a human thing that God would be like, oh, you said, you know, fuck. It's such an arbitrary thing, the word fuck. And I just think if that whole notion, I just reject it entirely because I think when the Bible describes God, it's like all of these jealous, petty, commits genocide. It's all human. It's all the human things that we have. And I would like to think if there is a higher power, that it's something so much better than humans are, definitely better than that God described in the Old Testament.

1:00:58I mean, that guy's a nut. I mean, a complete unhinged nut has to send his son on a suicide mission to atone for all the shit he did. It's weird shit, you know? Jennifer, have you ever had a podcast interview like this? Or is this Jennifer Welch as usual? I mean, I'm always I'm always like this. Okay, this is my absolute last question. And it is a total softball question for you, but it kind of goes back to my first question, which is, what is the significance of the success of you and pumps? Because you have this whole story about your husband's drug addiction, sex addiction, addiction in her case.

1:01:44You're successful entrepreneurs now. You're contrarians. You're sticking it to the man. All this. What does all of this symbolize? What are you and pumps? What do you actually stand for in society right now? I think it's that people want to see women that look like pumps in me, white privileged women, stand up for marginalized people. They want to say, oh, okay, we are in this together. Oh, they're not trying to oppress us. I think it's a story of a thirst for unity in America. And typically you see, you know, the Karen stereotype or, you know, the Fox News women or the MAGA women, and they're kind of the oppressors.

1:02:28And I think there's a desire for unity, a unity among different skin colors, different accents, all of the things. And so I think that's my opinion. All righty. That's the way to end this. Oh, my God. So now I can move on to Heather Cox Richardson because I've had Jennifer Welch just go down the list. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Guy. This has been so enjoyable. So listen, so several things. First of all, I want to thank Madison Nysberg, Tessa Nysberg, my ace people who helped me. Madison is co-producer. Tessa is a researcher. Jeff Sees, my sound design engineer. He's also co-producer.

1:03:10Shannon Hernandez is the sound design. We're the remarkable people team. And that's what we do. We find remarkable people like you, and we kick ass and take names. So this has been a great episode. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thank you to your team for all of your hard work. I enjoyed the interview so much.

1:03:33This is Remarkable People.