Julia Cameron: Living the Artist’s Way

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0:49I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. Happy 2024. We're on a mission to make you remarkable this year. Today's episode sets a record for us. we are welcoming Julia Cameron for the fourth time on our podcast. She is the first person to four-peat. Julia is known as the godmother of creativity. She's the best-selling author of over 40 works, including, of course, The Artist's Way. Julia will discuss her latest gem, Living the Artist's Way, an intuitive path to greater creativity. Until this book, Julia's three tools were morning pages, artist dates, and solo, no device, no dog walks. In this book, she unveils her fourth long-awaited tool, a vital addition to the Artist's Way trilogy.

1:45It's called Writing for Guidance. Over six weeks, Julia teaches you how to connect with your intuitive power. Be prepared, by the way, to be knocked over by a feather when Julia answers my question, why did it take 30 years to write this book? Her answer is guaranteed to make you smile. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. And now here is a remarkable Julia Cameron, direct from her house without air conditioning yet.

2:23first question how is the air conditioning did you get the air conditioning fixed up they still haven't fixed oh my you're kidding no they have found it difficult to fix So they are up on the roof, chomping around, and they are trying to do their best to have it ready so that when it gets hot again, I'll have air conditioning. You know, I'm glad to learn that I'm not alone in having all these aggravating things to do at my house. I'm very familiar with your work, and this is the fourth time you've been on. But there may be people who are listening who don't know some of the nuances of your first three tools.

3:14So can you just briefly explain morning pages, artist dates, and walking? These are the basic tools of a creative recovery. and morning pages are three pages of longhand morning writing about absolutely anything, anything that crosses your mind. And they are like poking a little teeny whisk broom into the corners of your consciousness and sweeping the debris into the center of the room where you can deal with it. So they're the place where you say, this is what I like. This is what I don't like. This is what I want more of. This is what I want less of. And you are sending a sort of telegram to the universe, and the universe responds.

4:04That's morning pages. The second tool is something called an artist's date, which if morning pages are done daily, morning pages are non-negotiable but once a week you take an artist's date which is a solo expedition to do something that enchants or interests you and it should be something that your inner eight year old would find delightful an artist's date has two parts to it artist and date and you're out to sort of woo your inner consciousness. And it's an interesting fact that when I assign morning pages, people go straight to work. They go, work. I get it. I'm going to work on my creativity.

4:58But when I assign an artist's date and I say, no, I want you to go out once a week and play, they become very apprehensive and skeptical and fold their arms across their chest. And they say, what does play have to do with creativity? And I say, well, it has everything to do with creativity. We have an expression, the play of ideas. And that's what you're doing. You're playing so that you will have ideas. The third tool is very simple. It's put on some shoes and go for a 20-minute walk. And don't take your dog and don't take your radio and don't take your telephone and just take your consciousness out and take it for a stroll.

6:11So the three tools are morning pages, artist dates, and walks. And then there is a fourth tool, which I have not been faithful about explaining. It was a tool that I first mentioned in the Artist's Way in 1992, which is that I asked you to ask for guidance. And then I went for 30 years without mentioning it again, even though I was using it all the time. Morning pages, artist states, walks, and then the fourth tool is I want you to ask for guidance. And the new book, Living the Artist's Way, is a book which is a deep dive into the fourth tool. When you say asking for guidance, is it like you're having a conversation with your consciousness or the universe or God and then you write down what you hear?

7:17You're asking for guidance on something which baffles you. So you write down, what about X? And then you listen. And when you listen, you will hear a response. And that response is guidance. And it's often clear and direct and precise and welcome. So it's not necessarily appearing to you via writing. You can just, quote unquote, learn this or hear this? I think it's important that you do it in writing because when you write down your response, you have a record of the guidance that you received. And it's important that you have a sense of the accuracy of the guidance. So when you write it down, you are putting it on the page and you are saying, this is what I heard.

8:22And why, Julia, did it take 30 years for you to write about this? I think it's because I was afraid of sounding too woo-woo.

8:37Come on. Seriously? Seriously, yes, I was afraid of sounding too woo-woo because when you write for guidance, you are stepping beyond the rational into a world which is intuitive. And I think that I was scared that if I wrote about guidance, people would think, oh, she's just a little bit crackers. I don't think you need to worry about that. Nobody's going to think that. And you know what? Tough shit if they do. Now, where does listening and praying fit into all of this? What I found worked best for me was to write three pages of guided writing, morning writing. And that is, in essence, a prayer.

9:35Because you're saying, here is what I want. Here is what I hope. Here is what I dream. Here is what I dare. And when you write out your guidance like that, you find yourself feeling a sense of safety. I understand listening to this force. But when you're praying, are you praying to what people consider a traditional God? Are you praying to the universe? Who are you praying to? I feel like I'm praying to a line from Dylan Thomas, the poet, the force that through the green fuse drives the flower. So I feel like I'm praying to a universal energy, a force that opens up to us when we ask it to. So let me ask you a kind of a flip side question, which is, Are there any people who are so evil or so whatever that this writing down and the guidance that they hear is just plain wrong?

10:52If Donald Trump did this, what would happen? If Donald Trump did this, we might get a better world. But I think there's no such thing as a person who is too, quote, evil to write for guidance. And I think that writing for guidance is asking the universe to give us a sense of benevolence. Why do you ascribe so much power to the act of writing? what makes that beyond just thinking or cogitating or whatever what's the act of putting it on paper do the act of putting it on paper is an action of power we write and when we write we find ourselves led. And this leading gives us a sense of direction. And my own experience with writing is that it's incredibly powerful and it gives us a sense of right action.

12:04And I think that But when we don't write, we risk not remembering what our guidance was. And so when we write, we're putting it on the page and we're committing it to memory. I think a lot of scientific evidence supports that with like note taking in schools and stuff. Same thing, right? Yes, I think so. Now, what if somebody says, well, can I type it? Can I put it in a word processor or a digital journal? Is it the act of writing is not the same as the act of typing? It's not the same. When we write, we are connected from our heart to our hand. And when we type, we can go quickly past important points.

13:00And I sometimes have people say, oh, Julia, I'm so much faster when I type. And I say, well, fast is not what we're after. We're after depth and authenticity.

13:22Really tactical question. Do you have a favorite pen? Oh, I do. What is it? It's a Uniball 207. It's a fast writing pen. Uniball 207. Yes. Okay, this episode is going to come out and Amazon is going to be sold out. We should get you an affiliate fee for that. Well, any special color? Well, I like black. Okay. Okay. I have another bizarre question. I read that you conduct Zoom classes for morning pages. My head exploded. You're the last person in the world I would think is using Zoom and then using Zoom for something so analog as writing morning pages. The two did just, it's hard to fit those two thoughts into my limited brain.

14:22What is the attraction of Zoom for you? I like Zoom because I feel connected to the people that I'm teaching. And I feel like it gives me a sort of radar. And I feel like it gives me a feeling of commitment. So when I teach on Zoom, I want to say with more depth. You teach with more depth with Zoom than in person? I think so. Wow. I think it's because you feel the purity of intention of the class. Can you explain that? When I teach on Zoom, I start off by saying, now I'm going to count to three. And when I get to three, I want all of you to set an intention that we're going to have a wonderful class.

15:19And then I count to three. And then we set the intention. and now this is going to sound too woo-woo, but I feel I can experience the good wishes of the class. Wow. I would say 99.9 % of the world thinks that Zoom is dehumanizing. It lacks human emotion and touch, et cetera, et cetera. And the only two people who I have ever interviewed who said opposite of that is you and Tom Peters of In Search of Excellence. The both of you are in very good company as having different opinions of Zoom. Well, I just think that Zoom opens our minds. It seems like about one book a year because my podcast has been going four years and you've been on four times.

16:20So when are you going to stop? Do you ever figure out, okay, I'm done with writing? I don't figure I'm done with writing, but I do feel like I'm slowing down and putting more thought into the page and putting more intention into the page. And I feel like it's a good thing. to be slowing down a little bit. Julia Cameron's idea of slowing down is writing only one book a year.

17:01Let's just say that that is a few standard deviations away from most people's idea of slowing down. So, Julia, if I were to come to your house, Yes. Would I see stacks and stacks of morning pages? There's a whole library of your morning pages from day one. You would see a big, tall bookcase with morning pages filed throughout. Wow. And I also feel like Morning Pages journals are a wonderful tool and they are concise. I know Morning Pages are a private thing, but that would be amazing to look through. That's looking through, I don't know, Leonardo da Vinci's notes or something. That would be an amazing experience, but I digress.

18:04Anyway, two final questions. Okay. One question is, and I've done this with several guests who have these important people in their lives and you just get another sort of perspective on a person. You think that Joel Fultonos would agree to talk to me about what it's like to edit Julia Cameron? Yes, I think he would talk to you about it. He's been my mentor and my muse for 27 years. So could you help me make that work? Because I think that would be so fascinating. And I bet nobody has ever done that. And my last comment to you. So listen, I've written 16 books now. And I use these quotes. I put a quote in at the start of every chapter.

18:57And sometimes in the body. But I have to say that the quotes that you select and where you put them and how you use them. is absolutely remarkable. I just love how you find those quotes and use them in your book. I want to know, how do you find those quotes? I find them through Google. And what search term do you use to find a quote by Maya Angelou? I go by topic, not by person. And so your Google search is find me topics about, I don't know, prayer? Sure. I'll tell you, my favorite quote in your book is this one, and we'll end with this. I had to write it down. I loved it so much. It's the quote that is, what's a sundial in the shade?

19:54Oh, my God. I just love that quote. So I thank you for bringing that quote into my life. You're very welcome. That's all I got for you, Julia. I just love interviewing you. I look forward to number five whenever that happens. And I hope the air conditioning is fixed before it gets hot again. That would be a wonderful thing, wouldn't it be? How could we help along that? We can set an intention. I will be writing for guidance about how Julia can finally get her air conditioning. How's that? That sounds good. Okay. So there you have it. Julia Cameron, four-peating on the Remarkable People podcast.

20:40It's kind of poetic. She's been on four times and now she has four tools. So remember, morning pages, artist dates, solo walks, and now writing for guidance. Don't forget the name of her book is Living the Artist's Way, An Intuitive Path to Greater Creativity. Speaking of greater creativity, Madison and I have finished our book. It's called Think Remarkable. And guess what? Julia Cameron gave us a great blurb for it. It'll be out in the first week of March, but you can order it now. End of ad. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. First, my thanks to Julia's team. That would be Emma Lively, John Carl, and Nick Kaczynski.

21:30Next, my thanks to the Remarkable People team. That would be Jeff C., Shannon Hernandez, the sound design team, the Nismar sisters, Madison, drop-in queen and producer of the podcast. Also, clearly, my co-author, Tessa Nismar. She prepares me for every interview and double-checks our transcripts. We put a lot of effort into our transcripts. It's because I'm basically deaf. And so I appreciate the ability to read interviews. And then there's also Alexis Nishimura, Luis Magana, and Fallon Yates. We are the Remarkable People team, and we are on a mission to make you remarkable in 2024. Now you have a week to go pre-order.

22:19Think Remarkable by Guy Kawasaki and Madison Nismar. Until next time, mahalo and aloha. This is Remarkable People.