Tiny Habits, Big Change (Re-Release)

28:40there's time without these 12 or 20 and if you're peeing you know five times a day that really adds up so that the thing that's unexpected here and the thing that i don't think is clear enough in my book or i should have really really i should have put in the summary on amazon or something it's it's not you grow it and then eventually it gets bigger and bigger you set the bar low and keep it low so you can always succeed you can always be consistent so you're designing for consistency and as long as you keep that habit alive it has a chance to be bigger the next day and so on and using this push-up example is there an end goal in mind of i don't know bigger pecs or I don't know, more bench presses?

29:33I mean, what's the goal of doing two pushups after you pee every time? I'm going to give you a specific answer, but your question is really a bigger question than my answer, and I'll give you the bigger one. For me, I'm 58 now, and I know it's important to build and keep muscle mass. And so for me, it was like, here's a way that I can stress my muscles and tell my muscles to rebuild or build. So for me, that's really important. But your bigger question, I'll answer it this way. The habits that wire in the best and fastest are the ones with the most meaning to you. So if pushups have no meaning for you, that's not a great habit to pick.

30:19If meditation has no meaning other than you just heard it in a TED Talk or somebody told you you should meditate, that's going to be really hard for you to nail the meditation habit. But so I talk about help yourself do what you already want to do. And I call that maxim number one. And what that means is pick habits that relate to what you already want. Don't pick habits that feel like shoulds. Don't just pick randomly like, oh, I heard kale was good. I don't know why I'm eating kale, but somebody said it. That's not a good way. So choosing your habit is part of the tiny habits method. And part of what I talk about in the book, how do you choose the best habits for you?

30:57And that selection is really important. Let's say that I really want to improve my pop-up. You paddleboarders don't have that problem because you're already standing. But the rest of us, we need to pop up. So if I had a tiny habit, like every time I pee, I do one pop-up on the floor. Yeah. And then when I do that pop-up, I celebrate the pop-up. That's kind of the theory there? Yep. Yep. But so, yeah, and but you'll see this naturally on the waves, actually, when people ride a wave or do a maneuver on the wave they really like, they'll often celebrate naturally. Like, yeah, or other people will celebrate them.

31:36One of my friends is learning to surf and she caught one of her best waves of her life this morning. I was like, so notice how natural that is. But what that's doing is it's helping wire in what she just did. So that will become the habitual behavior. So, yeah, with your pop up example, do that. Now, there's an end point probably to that habit because at some point your pop-up is going to be good enough. And so I think of that kind of habit as a temporary habit. Right here on my desk, I have a little two-pound dumbbell. This is the smallest dumbbell I've ever had. And why do I have it? Because my physical therapist said I might get some shoulder problems.

32:14So he's having me do this. I'm not going to be doing these little shoulder exercises forever. I'm making it a habit until my physical therapist thinks I'm out of the woods and I'm not going to have shoulder problems. So some and that's a good way to think about some habits is this is a temporary habit until I achieve a certain outcome and then I'm done with it and I move on. So after you master the pop up, you might pick something else to do.

32:44Up next on Remarkable People. and I started doing this a couple years ago is after my partner starts talking to me I will put the technology down and not just down I put it face down and I will look at him that makes such a difference so you know tiny habit recipe after my partner says something to me or after my partner needs my attention if I'm using the phone or tablet I will put it down face down and pay attention and so I would prescribe that to everybody yes I would because it makes a huge difference in a relationship.

33:21We come across a lot of questions on Remarkable People that focus on the complexity of the human condition. For example, what connects us to the world around us? What makes us feel happy? What is important to us? What pisses us off? These questions are also part of our economy. The exchange of problems and solutions, questions and answers between businesses and consumers. And when businesses provide answers to the questions that drive customers, we see growth and opportunity. The HubSpot CRM platform helps you understand what makes your customers tick. With powerful new marketing, operations, service, and sales tools, HubSpot is on a mission to help your business grow better by making your customer experience better than ever.

34:07Remarkable, actually. From conversation intelligence tools to automated marketing campaigns to data quality tools, HubSpot tracks every minute detail so you can fully optimize your customer's experience. Learn more about how you can transform your customer experience with a HubSpot CRM platform at HubSpot.com. Welcome back to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. Is it easier to form tiny good habits or tiny bad habits? All habits form in the same way, whether we call them good or bad. They start tiny. They find a place where they fit naturally and they get nurtured. Notice those are the exact three hacks of tiny habits.

34:53It starts tiny, finds where it fits, and it gets nurtured. That could be a smoking habit. It could be a snacking habit. It could be a push-up habit. It could be a reading habit. And so which one is easier?

35:10I'm going to say, I'm going to kind of slip out of that question and just say the habit that you want the most, or that is the habit that gives you the strongest positive emotion is the one that's going to wire in the fastest. And that can be a good habit or a bad habit. For example, in my life, I won't go into this. It's kind of boring. Coffee mugs. I tend to be kind of a klutz in my work desk and I knock over coffee. So then I get a different kind of coffee mug that's more stable and I feel more successful using this because I don't spill it like I do my others. So, I never pick the other ones anymore.

35:47So, I would say the habit that wires in faster isn't so much a function of good and bad, but it's the one that gives you the emotion, a net gain in positive emotion. So, the simplest way to describe it is a feeling of success and that could be like Instagram. Oh, I'm really stressed out. I go to Instagram. am, I feel successful getting rid of my stress. Or it could be writing with a new pen. I write with a pen. It's like, oh my gosh, my penmanship is so great and it's so easy to use. Now, you can think of things we might call bad habits as something that quickly relieves anxiety. And a lot of habits that we call bad habits do that.

36:31So, notice it is the release of anxiety that is wiring in that behavior that's making it become more part of your life so it's the same dynamic for good habits or bad habits start small it finds a place where it fits naturally and then it gets nurtured and the nurturing is through emotion okay i got it i have to wrap my mind around that is a lot to swallow there i mean it's very different than traditional ways, right? I mean, this is just radically different than the traditional way of thinking about habits and behavior change. And then in my book, because I needed to make so clear that it's not repetition that creates habits, it's emotion.

37:15That was a title. So, I made that the title, Emotions Create Habits of a Chapter. And because that's so unconventional, I thought I would be so criticized for that. And it's been the opposite. There has just been so much resonance with that, that the kind of critiques I thought I would get just haven't happened. It's been sort of like, well, of course that's how it works. And so, I'm really happy about that because when people understand that it's emotions that create habits, then it relieves them from the sense of, oh, I have to just drudge through this for 30 days or 66 days. And if I can just get to that point, it'll be habit.

37:54It also helps them see, at least if they do it in the tiny habits way, that you can create habits and change your behavior and feel good. That when you feel bad or guilty or shameful, you're not doing it in the best way, that you change best by feeling good and that you can use positive emotions to create the habits. And not only does that wire in the habit and it helps change your identity. I'm the kind of person who eats healthy snacks or I'm the kind of person that exercises throughout the day. And that identity shift then seems to have a ripple effect. In the five-day program, even since the beginning, I measured, were there other behaviors you've changed during this week?

38:39And the vast majority of people said yes, and about 20 % of the people report they made a big change within five days. So, there clearly is, as you do a behavior and you haven't feel successful, it has a ripple effect on your other behaviors and your attitude as well. And so that's why I'm really excited that people are understanding and resonating with the idea that it's emotions that create habits and you can use positive emotions to do that. So to put this back into my surfing context, if I understand this correctly. So now I find some prompt. Let's continue with the taking a leak example. So every time I take a leak, i do two pop-ups and i celebrate the two pop-ups so now there's a positive joyous emotion with doing pop-ups so now that it's associated with the joy of popping up it will become a habit because of the emotion and i'll start doing more pop-ups and better pop-ups and pretty soon it's guy lenny as supposed to kailan and i'll be a piahi one day and and yeah the way it works is as you celebrate as you hack your emotion to wire in the habit once it becomes a habit you don't have to celebrate it anymore it's become a habit right so you use the emotion to wire it in so so yes but let me go to surfing since uh you understand that so the first uh few years surfing here and the surfers don't really talk very much where I typically surf.

40:17And so I was kind of like on the edge and just kind of running the shoulder of the waves. I'm now more, a little more integrated, but I would hear people say, oh man, I'm addicted. I have to be out here. Like it's terrible weather. It's stormy. It's awful. And it's like, I have to be, I'm addicted. And I was like, oh, good research topic. Maybe I can get a grant from Stanford to study addictions. Here's what I think. Here's what I think's going on, guy. There's a moment when you go to catch a wave, there's a sliding or slipping feeling. There's that moment. And you, bam, that's the moment. So, the celebration, the emotional reaction is built into surfing.

40:56You don't have to say, good for me, I caught the wave. There is that physical thing you feel that reinforces the behavior. And that's the thing that makes people want to go back. And I think that's the thing that causes people to sit. They don't even know that I'm a behavior guy. They don't know who I am when they're talking about it. I'm just kind of listening and observing. But that's the people that have become very, very into surfing. I think it's that feeling, that slipping, that sliding, that dropping in, the first instance. And you're like, oh man, yeah. I surf every day. Well, almost every day.

41:34And I took it up at the age of 60, which is about 55 years too late. Yeah. And it is the most difficult thing I've ever tried to learn because 60 is not ideal, but I, I know a lot of, you know, good surfers and the good older ones always say, it's not about who can turn the best and do all this. It's about who's having the most joy. And if you're having the most joy, you are a good surfer. That's just, that's how it is. Yeah, I love that. Bob Pearson told me that. I really respect and admire you. You went from paddle surfing to prone. That's harder. It is harder. So good for you. I was humiliated into that.

42:21There is kind of this like whole status thing. What kind of board do you have? I think it's less true in Hawaii. I think in Hawaii, people appreciate just board sports, whether it's boogie boarding body boarding paddle boarding or prone surfing or i don't know about foiling but foiling you know mark zuckerberg on electric foil that's my idea of something i would never want to do but anyway but in california there is definitely a pecking order that at the bottom is the paddle border right above that is the long border above that is you know kind of the fish and above that is the short border so i'm near the bottom of that picking order well and then i would be at the bottom being a stand-up paddle but man i catch more waves i catch i get back and i mean there's just advantages there's just yeah definitely and i have more fun i definitely okay so before i shifted to stand-up paddle surfing i was working on prone surfing.

43:21Kel, we should just cut this. This is boring. Three years, I broke ribs or dislocated different places doing prone surfing. What? Boom. Then, you know, you're out for 12 weeks. And then I go back next year and something weird happens. And so, after the third time that I got injured prone surfing, it was like, I am done. I'm not built for this. That's why I shifted to stand up. And I'm so glad I did because I have so much fun. And if the waves aren't firing, you can paddle around. So you can paddle around and just goof around paddling. So go out and see the whales. Somebody should have told you that as a beginner, you shouldn't start at Piaxi or Jaws.

44:00Did that conversation ever happen? No, my gosh. The power. I mean, I go look and watch. And yeah, Piaxi, Jaws, that's like where the big, big, huge waves happen. happen and why that is just stunning to think that somebody could go do that just yeah oh my gosh one of the things we have out where i surf which is smaller is oh it's just water so big waves coming you've fallen it's like oh it's just water that works where i surf but man a pi slash jaws that is not an accurate thing to have a tiny habit of and you fall into it's just water when that next wave's coming at you. Yeah. By the way, while we're on this topic, why do you call the Maui habit, the Maui habit?

44:46When I got accepted to give a TED talk here in Maui, they wanted it to be just one idea. Okay. I tend to like try to cram in too many things. I'm like, no, just one idea. That's all you're doing. And so I thought, well, let me share this habit that I've been doing and I'll give you the origin of it. And it does go back to Oahu, by the way. And let me just just call it the Maui habit. So in this talk, I will christen this habit, the Maui habit and so on. So it was that TEDx, TEDx Maui conference that gave me the opportunity to name it. Where does the name come from? I moved out of Silicon Valley in 2001 and I moved up north because I guess this is okay because I felt like Silicon Valley was greedy and I felt like my soul was being corrupt.

45:35It was just gutting me. And I was like, I can't live in this environment. I love Stanford. I want to keep teaching and researching here. So, we moved up north onto a river and our neighbor was born in Honolulu. Her mother taught there. She wasn't Hawaiian, but she was very into the islands. And she became our dear, dear friend. she gave me her mother's ukulele that she used in the classroom for one of my birthdays she comes over playing the ukulele and said this is yours it's my mom's wow my gosh she she lived alone she'd never married and one day for one of my birthdays she gave me a card that had a sailboat on the front and it said every day is a gift and i like that card and i put on the fridge It was about six weeks later that she invited myself and my partner to go to a doctor's appointment with her.

46:33And we're like, okay, Charlotte, we'll go to the appointment with you. We go there. So remember, she gave me a card that said every day is a gift. And so we go to the doctor's appointment and the doctor puts up the x-rays or the, it wasn't x-rays, but the CAT scan or something. And she had stage four liver cancer. and she knew that and she'd known that for a few years she just didn't tell us we're her closest friends but that was her way of saying yeah i'm gonna die soon and so then that card on the fridge every day is a gift became a big part of our lives and we were caregivers for charlotte we helped her pass on and so on i played ukulele when she was through those even though i'm not a good singer.

47:21I sang to her because I thought she would appreciate that. Played her mother's ukulele. It was really quite an honor to help, to care for somebody, help somebody transition. So then as my partner and I, we would get up and say, we would say it's going to be a great day. Every day is a gift. So building on that card. So the Maui habit is after my feet touch the floor, I will say it's going to be a great day. That came directly from the inspiration from the card that Charlotte gave us. And we just started saying that to ourselves and each other. And I just felt the power of that. I mean, I'm not a big intention setting that is a kind of person.

47:59There's other people that do that, but there was something about that. And then I started sharing it and getting enough feedback that I was very confident about doing a Ted talk just on that. Like, Hey, everybody, I'm not going to prescribe any habits for you. You pick whatever habit you want. I can give you the how to form the habit, but you pick the what. Tiny habits is the how. You pick whatever habit you want. But exception, Maui habit. First thing in the morning, say, it's going to be a great day. And that is the only habit that I prescribe. So, it's really Charlotte's influence. And then it was the opportunity at TEDxMaui to give it a name and to kind of shine a spotlight on that and acknowledge Charlotte's important role in our lives.

48:48Yeah. Great story. Great story. I've had many people listening to this because there have been many guests who discuss this want to reduce screen time. They are addicted. So, case study, best practices, tiny habits to reduce screen time. The good news here is I did a Stanford class on this and a whole class. Again, I'd pick any topic that relates to behavior change that I think is hard and cutting edge. And so as a result of the class and some of the subsequent work in my lab, there is a resource for everybody at screentime.stanford.edu where you go in and answer. There's a little genie, like a little character, and she asks you what kind of screen time, what devices.

49:36And based on that, it draws on our database of over 150 different ways to reduce screen time. And so what we built is an algorithm where we then match people with ways to reduce their screen time. And so that's available. And that was 2017 or 18 that we did that. But that's available and it's running. But in the tiny habits, that's there. In tiny habits, let me suggest a couple. One is to create the habit of charging your phone somewhere that's not in your bedroom. Okay. So that could be after we turn off the TV at night, I will charge my phone here in the kitchen or the front entry or the office.

50:18Okay. Phone in the bedroom. Probably don't have to go into details on that. Not a great thing. So change that. And that might mean you get an alarm clock, everybody. My students push back on that. Like, how will I wake up? It's like, oh, you can buy an alarm clock. That's the first thing my son said. I suggested this because I interviewed someone named Catherine Price and she said the same thing. Yeah. Don't sleep at your phone. Yeah. Yeah. And I pushed that out there through Virgin Pulse a while. I mean, I was like, this is simple, but let's not have the phones in the bedrooms. Let's charge them elsewhere.

50:55Another specific one is, and this is what I do. And I started doing this a couple of years ago is after my partner starts talking to me, I will put the technology down and not just down, I put it face down and I will look at him. And that, that makes such a difference. So, you know, tiny habit recipe, after my partner says something to me or after my partner needs my attention, if I'm using the phone or tablet, I will put it down, face down and pay attention. And so I would prescribe that to everybody. Yes, I would, because it makes a huge difference in a relationship. And then there's others.

51:36It's more dramatic things people can do. You can make your password really hard. You can delete the app, et cetera. What we found in the screen time work, both in the class and in the lab, is that a lot of people say they want to reduce screen time, but it's in other people. Okay? they're usually talking about my son my daughter and that was a little discouraging to be honest because we did all this work we pulled together the largest collection of screen time reduction strategies and tools we think anywhere and we created this tool and people like yeah yeah but i want somebody else to reduce screen time my screen time is fine so there is that little twist there yeah so i can be prompted by it's time to go to sleep my tiny habit will be take the phone outside the room charge it someplace else and then say to myself it's going to be a great sleep and yeah you could do that exactly and let me fine tune it a little bit so i'll give you a little coaching okay what as a tiny habits coach and we train coaches and we have a wonderful set and they're doing great work on Clubhouse and you'll see more of the coaches.

52:47They're incredible. So the habit of the actual behavior of plugging in your phone, that's tiny enough, right? You don't have to make that any tinier. But then you want that first part, what we call an anchor, the routine you already do. You want that to be more specific. So what you want to do is look at your, what you typically do in the evening. And what is a specific moment? Like after I click off the TV, or after I put my floss down or after I pull down the cover. So think about your existing nighttime routine, like something really specific, a very specific routine. And that's how you want to think about it.

53:29Does anything come to mind for you? What is something you do in the evening that's very specific that right after that - Right before I go to bed? Yeah, but something that you do, something that you do, something that can come after. Do you get a drink of water? Do you set out vitamins? Do you prepare the coffee machine? I don't know if I want to admit this because... Okay, you don't have to admit it, but as long as there's something... No, no, it's not in the TMI category, but I like to take... Oh, all the conservation is going to go crazy about this, but I like to take a hot shower before I go to bed.

54:07That's great. Okay. So it could be after I hang up my towel, right? So it's not even after I take a shower because that might work. But in the tiny habits world, the tiny habits experts, you find the last action. We call it the trailing edge. What's the trailing edge, the last action? And like it could be hang up the towel or it might be put on your pajama bottoms or whatever. That's what you find. And let's say it's hang up the towel. then it's after I hang up the towel, I will then plug in my phone to charge. So then you're kind of writing computer code for yourself after this, then this. And you want that routine, what we call an anchor because it's solid.

54:51You want it to be very specific. So something like after dinner, I will, that doesn't work very well. But after I push the button on the dishwasher, I will. So that's part of the fine tuning of the recipe and it will make a big difference. to from thinking after I shower, I will plug in my phone to after I hang up my towel or throw the towel in the dirty clothes, I will plug in my phone. Yeah. First, I have to establish the habit of hanging up the towel, but yeah, I get your point. Okay. But for you and others, watch yourself. Habit formation is a skill. It's a set of skills. Oh, I have a better one.

55:28Okay, go. If I may be so rude, I'll do it after I take out my contact lenses. There we go. And as you're taking out your contact lenses, think of that's a series of behavior. What's the very last thing you do? I have disposable lenses that you throw away every day. And so you're not supposed to just flush them down the toilet because imagine 30 million people flushing two lenses down a day, 60 million lenses. That's adding up to the plastic problem. So I have two used lenses in my hand and I drop them in the trash can. There we go. So after I put my lenses in the trash and then I would put your charging station in your bathroom.

56:10There are three things that matter here. One is the location. So you want that anchor moment, that routine to be in the same location as the new habit. So because you've identified taking out contact lenses, don't cause yourself to walk upstairs to your office or whatever. Then have that new habit happen right there. So you can just turn and plug in your phone. That matters. There's two other factors that matter. But the location of the anchor and the new habit, that matters a lot. So, yeah. So try that. If that doesn't work for some reason, like I never have my phone in the bathroom. then look for a routine that you do where you want to charge your phone it might be in the front entry so it might be after i lock the door i will plug my phone in right and so creating a habit is a design process it's not a willpower challenge and so part of it is you come up with a plan like after contacts throw them away i'll plug my phone if that works keeps going if it doesn't work you don't beat yourself up you don't say oh i'm can't do this you redesign it and so it's an iterative process it's a design

57:41I love this. Starting tonight, I can hardly wait to take out my contacts. You know what? And that's a good sign. There are people, and this baffled me at first when I was coaching the first year. Somebody would, oh, let me think of a specific example. I can't think of one that far back. I don't have that kind of memory. But let's say that pouring the glass of water was their habit. And so it's like, after I start the coffee maker, after I take my finger off the button of the coffee maker, I will pour a glass of water. So no, it's not even drink the water is just pour it make it tinier and then people would write me and say bj i'm so excited i can't wait to start my coffee maker again am i going insane you know because i just am and it's like no and well at first i was puzzled but then i learned like no it's normal and it's actually a very good sign your brain is anticipating this good feeling and so your brain is anticipating when can i start the coffee maker again just like you said when can i take all my contacts because then it knows his good feelings coming soon after.

58:40This is not in the Tiny Habits book, but among the Tiny Habits coaches, we call it anchor anticipation, where you are excited, you're anticipating the anchor. So that's anchor anticipation, yeah. I have never been so excited about taking on my contacts or taking a leak, ever. I'm gonna mark my life before BJ and after BJ. So, oh my Lord. Okay, so one more question. So I understand this and I think I can pull it off for myself. But now I'm a parent. And let's just say, well, here, we'll word it this way. I have a friend who has a 16-year-old son. And I love this concept. But if I said to him, if my friend said to his son, okay, son, so what you need to do is you need to have a routine anchor point that triggers this tiny habit and then you celebrate.

59:37You think a 60-year-old boy is going to say, what a great idea. So whenever I brush my teeth from now on, I'm going to pick up the towel on the floor and hang it and say, celebrate and go to bed. I mean, how do you do this in other people? Yeah, I'm going to go back to the maxims. There are two maxims. So, for any time you think of habits, behavior change, engagement, I'm using all those as synonyms. There are two things that matter. Help people do what they already want to do. Help people feel successful. So, we've talked some about the feeling and the emotions. So, yeah, you could get your son really excited if it's a habit that he wants.

1:00:15It's someone I know. Oh, yes. Your friend's son would be really excited about it if it's a habit that they want. Let's say it's eating a chocolate stack. Let's say it's flying a drone. Let's say it's who knows what. That's why it's maximum number one. Help people do what they already want to do. There's no magical way to create habits in people that they don't want that habit. You can get compliance out of them. But that's not a habit. That's compliance. But what if my friend's son doesn't want to do anything that my friend wants him to do? Let me give an example of how somebody solved a similar problem.

1:00:58And this is my friend. Her name is Boo, and she lives in South Africa. And so, she was learning this. And here's what she did. So, she has two boys. They would leave their clothes on the floor. And she had read my book. And she's like, I can nag them into putting their clothes in the hamper. And then when she read my maxim that help people do what they already want to do, she was like, what do my boys want to do? They want to throw things. So, she got the insight. I'm going to put a little basketball backboard just over the hamper. And then I'm going to tell my boys, after you see something sitting on the floor, clothing, see if you can make a shot.

1:01:40and she called me. She didn't just email me. She called me. She was so excited. Oh my gosh, my boys are totally doing this. So notice how she shifted it from trying to get her boys to do something they didn't want to do to now it's the same action, but it's framed differently in a way they want to do it. I'm going to go to Big Five right now and buy a mask. Oh no, no. My friend is going to go buy a mask. Yes, but the reality is, the reality is whether we're creating habits for ourselves or trying to get other people, if it's a behavior or a habit they do not want, there's no magical way to make that happen as a habit.

1:02:18You can bribe, you can punish, you can constrain, you can get compliance, but that's not a habit. Let me give an example from my own life. And I won't say a friend, I'll just use my own life. My partner is 19 years older than I am. We've been together 30 years. and he grew up working very physical labor. So he was used to being very physically active. So he didn't have a tradition of working out. In fact, he thought that was kind of crazy because you'd go dig and do physical labor. And so of course I wanted him to work out. I wanted him, he's older than me, to stay as young and healthy as he can for as long as he can.

1:02:59But I knew I couldn't manipulate him into it or cause him to create a habit that he didn't want. And then one day, I would not have expected this guy. He sat down on a rowing machine and he liked it. I was like, what? Rowing? I would have never expected that. And he talked about rowing. I said, fine, we're going to buy a rowing machine. We're going to get the best rowing machine we're putting it in. And we did. So, notice I'm helping him do what he already wants to. He wants to row. I wanted him to just work out. And so fast forward, he rose every single day. In fact, today on the hydro platform.

1:03:34So then we've shifted to hydro, which I've gotten into as well. It's really quite awesome. So today he hit his 500 ,000 meter mark. He's rode 500 ,000 meters just on hydro. This is before he was on the concept two and now he's on hydro. He was so proud of that. Is hydro the thing with the water in the plastic bucket thing? No, no, no. You've got a screen and you've got coaches. Some are Olympians that say, okay, we're going to go up to a 24 and so on. It's really, really well done. Okay. He was so excited about that. He texted out the little 500K badge to all his kids and to me. And they're just, to tell him that he can't row would be so upsetting to him.

1:04:22So, notice the pattern. You know, I wasn't going to nag or browbeat him into working out and how I thought he should work out. Instead, when I got insight into what he already wanted to do, I helped him do that. And in this case, it was by buying the machine and getting it set up and saying, here you go. And he just, what a game changer that is. So, that didn't happen instantly, Guy. I had to pay attention for a few years to finally get that insight of what is the habit, the workout habit. And then now he stepped up to other things. So, and that's what I saw in tiny habits week after week. As you feel successful in one area, then you start doing other things related workouts.

1:05:06workouts. So, yeah, so there may not be a solution right now for your friend to get their teenage son to pick up their clothes off the bathroom floor. But help them form habits in the areas that they want, because change will lead to change. And the more confident they feel in changing, the habit they may not have wanted might suddenly go, oh my gosh, I do want a tidy bathroom. I don't want to look like a slob to my girlfriends. Therefore, I'm going to start picking up. So start people where they want to start. That would be my advice for your friend. I can hardly wait to tell him.

1:05:51BJ, fantastic. Oh, I love this. Oh, I learned so much. I am going to take off my contact lens, pee and get a basket hoop. Bam. There we go. What's fun about this and studying this? is it's so practical to so many parts of our lives. And it does feel like a superpower. When you know how to create habits quickly and easily, there's almost nothing that you can't do. And sharing that with people and teaching them to do that and getting the feedback is just, as you saw in the book, I just feel like it's absolutely my responsibility. I am to share this and impact as many lives as I can and make people happier and healthier.

1:06:32So, thank you so much for inviting me to be here. It's fun talking about surfing, but helping people understand, yes, you can change. It's not as hard as you think. There is a breakthrough method that makes it quick and easy and even fun. It is a good thing you had that dream where you were going down in the airplane because a lot of this might not have happened were it not for that dream, right? It wouldn't have. I mean, the context is I do a lot at Stanford. I do a lot outside of Stanford. And I'm always pursuing projects that I love. I have that flexibility. And especially thanks to tiny habits.

1:07:08I can kind of pick and choose. And people have been asking for a book for me since probably 2012. Where's your book? Where's your book? And I thought, I'm too busy. I'm doing this conference now. I'm doing this project now. And I just felt like with the innovation and the research, there just wasn't time. And then that night I had a dream. I was going to die in a plane crash. And my reaction in the dream was a sense of deep regret and a sense of shame and deep sadness that I had not yet shared my insights and these methods in a bigger way. Yes, there was the free five-day program. I'd spoken about it.

1:07:50People could go find videos and stuff. but not in a way like now, Tiny Habits is in 25 languages and so on. And when I woke up from that dream, it was very clear that I had to set aside other things and get the book and get it done and get it out into the world. So yeah, without the dream, there probably wouldn't be the Tiny Habits book. And my pop-up would continue to suck. So thank God for that dream. And there you have it, BJ Fogg, the remarkable person who is enabling me to put down my phone at night. That is a remarkable new habit. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. My thanks to Jeff C.

1:08:38and Peg Fitzpatrick, Shannon Hernandez, Madison Drop-In Queen Nismar, Luis Magana, and Alexis Nishimura. it's 2022 may the habits that you have resolved to create this year continue for now and forever all the best mahalo and aloha

1:09:05this is remarkable people