When Structure Meets Opportunity for Detroit’s Youth with Renee Fluker

0:00Hello, everyone. It's Guy Kawasaki. I believe we are in troubling and dangerous times. One of the things that's happening is that privacy is eroding. And when privacy erodes, so does democracy. So Madison, Nisberg and I, we just finished a book. It's called Everybody Has Something to Hide. This is a jargon-free book. It is for everybody to learn why and how they should use Signal. They should use Signal to ensure their privacy, safety, and well-being. It comes out on January 28th for five days. It'll be free, and then it'll go to$4.04. I hope you see what we did there. The forward is from Congressman Ro Khanna because he believes, like we do, that democracy is extremely important.

0:56And Signal is one of the tools that can help us preserve democracy. So remember the name. Everybody has something to hide. It's by Guy Kawasaki and Madison Nismore. Our students don't know how to write. They don't know how to address the envelope. They don't know where to put their name or who they're sending it to. So we have to show them. We've got to show them what color ink to use. We do dinner etiquette. They don't know how to cut their chicken or drink coffee or soup or whatever. We teach them all those soft skills that they need to learn how to do before going away to college. Hello, everybody.

1:35I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is the Remarkable People podcast, and we scour the world looking for remarkable people. And we found one in Detroit, Michigan. Her name is Renee Fluker, and she is the creator of this really innovative and such a great service. It's called the Midnight Golf Program, and I will let her explain how this works. She's a former social worker, and she truly has a gift in seeing the potential in people. And she's helping thousands and thousands of students in the Detroit area gain a better life and change the world. So welcome to the show, Renee Fluker. And thank you for inviting me to be on your show.

2:21First of all, please explain what the Midnight Golf Program is. Okay. So in 2001, my son was going away to college, and his dad died in a car accident. And so I wanted to do something, and I didn't want to do anything. And he said, Mom, go back and start a golf program so inner city kids can learn how to play golf like me. So I listened and got some people together, and I started with 17 students in public housing in Detroit, Michigan. So I went knocking on doors and begging kids to come and play golf. And one young man pushed me off the stairs and said, Look, lady, I don't want to learn how to play those sticks.

3:08And so I'm like, Okay, I'm going to try something else. So I went back and told some people. I said, I've got to try something else. Let's try food. So I said, Okay. I went back again and said, We got food at the community center. And all these young people came to the community center to get pizza. and that's how it got started with the food. So we started with 17 students learning how to play the game of golf. We did not think about college at that time. Then eventually we started getting more people. Kids want to be in this program, so we said we've got to add something to it. So we decided to add life skills.

3:45You need life skills and soft skills to get you prepared to go to college because we want to make sure now kids can go to college. Well, it worked. Again, I had to have the food so my speakers would come and bring food. Because, again, I didn't have any money. I borrowed money off of my 401K when I first started this program 25 years ago. And I know food was a very important thing that we had to have. And so that's how it got started because of Jason saying, And Ma, go back and let other young people learn how to play the game of golf. And it left from golf to college, from college to weddings to bridal showers.

4:27You name it, we do it. So now, will you describe what happens in a typical weekday meeting? How much is counseling and peer-to-peer advice and communication? How much is eating and how much is hitting golf balls? We have two cohorts now. Like I said, over 250 students, so we had to break them up. So 135 to 138 students come on Monday, Wednesday, the same for Tuesday, Thursday. So when they get here at 530, we have a speaker, a different speaker twice a week. So we're going to be doing thank you cards in the next two weeks. Our students don't know how to write. They don't know how to address the envelope.

5:11They don't know where to put their name or who they're sending it to. So we have to show them. We got to show them what color ink to use. We do dinner etiquette. They don't know how to cut their chicken or drink coffee or soup or whatever. We teach them all those soft skills that they need to learn how to do before going away to college. And so the name Midnight Golf came from Midnight Basketball. We were going to do a partnership with Midnight Basketball, but we didn't like what they did. All they wanted to do was stay up all night and play basketball, and they thought we could play golf all night.

5:45That did not work. So we end up leaving Midnight Basketball, having Midnight Golf. But we rebranded our program to College Career Beyond slash Midnight Golf Program. so everybody knows it's getting our students into college, and we have to figure out a way to keep them at college. So how many students have been through your program so far? So we had over 3 ,000 students, and again, when they come during the week, 5.30 to 8.30, we have a speaker, and then from 6.30 to 7, I have a full-course dinner, not pizza. We have baked chicken and a vegetable, a starch, and they like different types of bread and butter, you know, rolls.

6:31And then after that, they break up half of go-get-golf lessons for 35 minutes and the other half break into these small groups called T-E-E time, where we've got to discuss why is it so important to write a thank you card? Why is it so important to do this dinner etiquette? We teach them how to do neckties. We teach them how to do bow ties. So we have a 30-week program with 30 to 40-some people coming in teaching these different etiquettes. Now, I read someplace, and correct me if I'm wrong, but every one of your graduates went to college. Is that still true? 97 % went to college this year. We just completed our class of 2024-2025.

7:1597 % went to college. Wow. Yeah, and we're doing care packages. So all 200 of those students will receive a care package at the different colleges. We work with over 100 colleges. And this year, we got even more. And then I have 80 different high schools that we work with. So we have schools from everywhere, like far as 45 minutes to 55 minutes for a student to get here. Now, don't you have, like, for every available seat, you have 10 applicants, right? So it's like 10 to 1, right? Yes. So now, how do you decide who gets accepted? So our mentors, we have 60 mentors. Out of that 60, 20 are Midnight Golf alums.

8:04So they didn't went to college. They got jobs, and now they're coming back, and they want to be a mentor. So they decide, I don't have anything to pick anybody. My staff don't. The mentors make all the decisions. They go by their grit, motivation. We don't go by GPA. We don't go by SAT, ACT scores. You've got to show us that you want to be a part of this program. And the interview is about 20 to 25 minutes. And the interviews, we start on Tuesday, and we're done Thursday night. Wow. For 900 people. Wow. So I read someplace that one of your dreams was to get a building. Have you gotten a building and set it all up?

8:48I got the building. So a sponsor donated this old TV station in Midtown Detroit. It used to be Channel 56. And we got a loan from the Jewish Federation Center for$12 million. And we renovated this building, and it is beautiful. You have to come see it. It's just beautiful. We have one floor. The basement is like a PGA. It's four simulators, putting, chipping, all of that. First level is where we do programming. And the second level is our offices. We used to have to go to a school called Mary Grove College. And we would have to tear everything down every night, come back every day and put it together.

9:37And then one of my sponsors said, I want to give you this building. And I'm like, oh, okay. All right. But when I walked in, I'm like, oh, no, they can't do nothing with this building. It was like, if you can see the pictures, it was terrible. And now it's like, is that the same building? So, yeah, we need funding so that we can, you know, we got to pay this loan back. We have to pay it back. So I'm begging people to come see what we're doing. And I'm trying to help people to become, like, productive citizens. but I want them to be better. You know, like I want to be, they don't have to be like me, but be like you want to be somebody and come back and give back.

10:23I gave half of my life to this program. I've been doing this 25 years. And now I, eventually one day I'm going to have to leave and I want the program to be sustained. You know, like I want everything to be in place. I don't want to walk away and it's not ready. You know, I worked too hard to put this together.

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11:26Today, Roz's success is proof that with passion and the right support, it's possible to make your dreams a reality. Learn more at CapitalOne.com slash business cards. You're listening to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. How big is your staff now? We got 14 staff people. Our building is 40 ,000 square feet. Wow. And it's like, you know how you wish and you keep dreaming that something would come true? And it came true. Wow. It came true. We get a chance to serve more students. And these are, remember, these are all high school seniors, all high school kids. And people say, well, they should know where they're going to college.

12:10We have kids that don't know they're going to college until July. We have kids with a 1.9, 1.8 saying, I won't be able to go to school. We get them in college. We find colleges that will take them, and they end up that next year with a 3.4 or a 4.0. And how do these kids then pay for four years of college? Financial aid, they do scholarships. They take loans. They take the loans to the max. I have one of my students who was in the program in 2007. She's a lawyer, and she's still paying$200 ,000 back that she borrowed at Michigan State. She said, I guess I'll never pay this off. But she's a lawyer, and, you know, that's our dream, to have our young people to go to school and get a degree and find a good job.

13:02But, you know, we don't know what's going to happen now because the student loans and education, you know, we got, you don't know what's going to happen. Where are they going to get the money? What happened to the Pell Grants? Will they still be around? That's my concern because if they don't get financial aid, they can't go to college. So, you know, all politics and rhetoric aside, what do these kids need to succeed? They need love. They need somebody to care about them. They need a strong person. You know, what happened to the days when we were coming up and we had people that could talk to us and can listen?

13:45Like with Midnight Golf, they have to call the mentors, Mr., Ms., or Mrs. You can't call them by their first name. Nobody in my building is called by their first name. And people got away from that. So when they come in, they got to say, okay, yes, ma 'am, no, ma 'am, or no, I ain't going to do this. No, we don't talk like that in midnight golf. And I think it helps them. When they walk in the door, we give all our rules. We have a lot of rules. We even tell them, you know, you can't come in here wearing blue jeans. We don't do blue jeans. You got to wear nice pants. If you don't have them, we will give them to you.

14:23Your boys got to have their shirts tucked in. They got to wear a belt. Girls can't wear bonnets on their heads. Everybody's got to look like you're going to play golf. Boys can't wear hats in here. And we're just trying to prepare them for the real world. Half of them don't even get that kind of information going to school. So when they see that we care, and I'm standing at the door every night. Oh, I give out 200 hugs. Miss Renee, can I call you? Can you do this? Can we do that? But that makes the mentors and myself, like, we're doing something. We're doing something for the world. And we're trying to help people to be, like, again, be great.

15:05And don't do anything that you won't regret. And I always tell them, I say, you know what, Ms. Renee don't do babies. Now, when you go to college and get a degree, get married or whatever, that's your business. But right now, if you come up here and you say you're having a baby, I'm sorry. I got to help that person that want to go to school. And so last week, one of my alums, she was in a program in 2006. She got married, and she said, Mr. Naffa, I didn't have a baby. I'm like, she said, but I'm married. I'm like, okay, but you've grown, and you've got a degree, and you've got a great job. That's okay, but right now when you're trying to go to school, you can't take care of a baby.

15:43You can't do that. And they said, well, my mom, my family never says that. Well, I'm going to say that. I'm old school. I come from the old school. And as long as I'm around, we're going to always have my old rules. Do you think there's something wrong with that? Do I or are you saying you? Do you think there's something wrong with rules? Oh, not at all.

16:09Listen, Renee, or ma 'am. I probably like rules more than you do. But yeah, we do a lot with our young people with rules and how you dress and how you talk to people, how you greet people, how you shake their hands. We even tell them when you go to college, sit in the front row. Don't sit in the back. And on the first day, they'll send pictures. I'm sitting in the front row. OK, good. Keep sitting in the front row. So, you know, I know that you must have answered this question 15 ,000 times. And you probably can even guess what the question is going to be. But I really want your take on this. Like, why golf?

16:53Why golf? Well, golf is the whitest sport there is, right? I mean, like Donald Trump plays golf. But you got to remember, our kids, African-American kids, brown kids, all they know is football and basketball. Everybody thinks they're going to the NBA. But once we put that golf club in their hand, oh, my God, you should see them. Ooh, the last two weeks we've been outside hitting golf balls, it's amazing. It is amazing to see young people so excited about hitting a golf ball. And we wanted to show there's more than just basketball and football. And the young man I was telling you about that pushed me down the stairs, he got married.

17:44That was in 2000. He got married, and his daughter was in my program last year. Wow. So is that something? They're getting married, and they got kids, and now their kids are coming back through the program. All right, so I suspect of all people in the world, you know what makes a good mentor. So what makes a good mentor, Renee? Well, I think what makes a good mentor, that person is not your friend. That person can be there to give you some advice, to guide you alone, but not to be your friend. Just like some parents think that they're their kids' friends, that no. we're here to give you support, to give you wisdom, to be there when you're going through hard times or give you some suggestions on what you should do in your career.

18:39But I just don't think a mentor could be your friend. And we always make that clear in our mentor sessions when we have training. They're not your friends. And we do have young people. We start at the age of 25. Our oldest mentor is 84. And we try to explain to the mentors, you're not here to be their friend. And they understand that. We do have an 84-year-old, and he is an avid golfer. He retired from General Motors, and he loved coming. It's something for him to do because he could just be sitting at home doing anything. But he comes, and the kids love him. They call him Mr. Mac. Hey, Mr. Mac.

19:18And he just grins and talk and laugh. He's like their grandfather. Yeah, wow. So listen, as you look back over the 25 years you've done this, what would you do differently? What did you learn that anybody who's starting a program to help kids could learn from you so they don't make the same mistake? At least they should make different mistakes. So what's your advice to someone like that? You've got to have dedication. You've got to have time. I gave up my personal life to do this program. And if you don't have the patience and the time and the commitment and the financial and the money, it's going to be hard.

20:03But you've got to give it all that you have. You've got to have that passion. You've got to be motivated. I remember when I first started Midnight Golf, it was just me. In 2001, it was just me. I did the grants. I did go to meetings. I'm recruiting kids. Plus, I had a full-time job with the state of Michigan, and I was selling neckwear for Kenneth Cole, and I was traveling. So I got two or three hours of sleep in the beginning, and it was, I just had that, I don't know, I just had it. I couldn't sleep. I was excited, and then I would hear people tell me, no, I can't give you any money. you just started this program.

20:45But when I got my first grant, I was so excited. And I went back to those people and say, look, I got my first grant. Now can you take consideration and take me back and let me apply again? But I just want people to realize it's not easy. It's not easy, but it's something you got to be passionate about that you got to have. You got to just have the motivation and just willing to learn and learn from other people. Renee, I got to say that I am just so thankful that there are people like you in this world, man, because, I mean, truly you are making a difference. You're not about crypto or long-term capital gains tax or anything like that.

21:27You are really, you are truly making the world a better place. Wow. And I think about all the years and I think about everything I've done. I even go to the colleges. I didn't even tell you this. I go to the different schools and see students. Sometimes when they are having some issues, I jump on the airplane, I'm there for them. But it just gives me hope that it's still good people in the world and it's still somebody who care about me. I got some angels somewhere around here that care about me because I'm still doing it. So, Renee, what if a kid comes to you and, you know, that kid is angry and skeptical and untrusting?

22:14Well, first of all, I don't know if such a person would get into your program, but let's just say that happens. Oh, it happened. Okay, so what do you do in that kind of case? So a young man came to Midnight Golf, and he was talking while the speaker was talking. He kept talking and talking and getting, you know, trying to be funny. You know how you want to get some attention. So he kept talking and interrupting the speaker. So I went over to him, and I said, get the F out of my class. Oh, everybody did. Like, Miss Renee, cousin, Miss Renee is upset. I said, get up. Get out now. Get out. So he got up, he walked out the door, and somebody came and got me.

22:57He was on the stairs at the school where we were at crying. And I went and sat on the steps with him, and I said, I really didn't appreciate that. I said, I've never lost it with anybody. You're the first person. He said, Ms. Renette, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. I said, I need you to go back in that room and apologize, and then I want you to leave. And I've got to think about if I want you to come back. He came back. this young man, I mean, is totally, totally different. But he was just used to being a class clown, you know, just being funny and talking. And I just got tired and I lost it. First time I ever done that.

23:34But over 3 ,000 kids, that was the first time that ever happened. And I bet that story is Midnight Golf Wars. Oh, and his brother was in it. And his brother, we still talk about it when I see them. But, you know, it's like you being disrespectful. These people left work to come here to give you these skills. And you won't sit here and be disrespectful? No, no, not in my class, not in this class. You're not going to do that. So, Renee, I can't tell you that I am familiar with all these issues you're dealing with and all that. You know, I'm from Hawaii. I live in California. I'm 71 years old. So just for me and the people listening who are kind of similar to me.

24:19What are things that we always get wrong about at-risk youth and the kind of youth that you're dealing with? Just demystify this for us. Well, I think people get the wrong impression. When you see kids out walking around on their phones, they stay on the phones or either they're walking around, their pants hanging down, they're talking all crazy. I think they get the wrong idea that they're bad kids, but I think they just need somebody to listen and someone to tell them, this is how you should be acting when you out in the public. I can go somewhere right now, see some kids on the corner and I don't like what they're saying.

24:59And I shouldn't say anything to them, but I do. And they say, oh, you're that lady in that midnight golf program down the street. Yeah, I'm the lady down there. Okay, we won't do that. But you know, some kids you just, you can't do. You can't say anything to, but I try with my students and with their siblings, this is not the way we're going to act in this program, or you should tell your friends they shouldn't be like this either. So I don't know if it works, but so far, again, like I said, kids are coming here, oh, they have to tie their shoes. That's another thing. Young people don't want to tie their shoes, and we have stairs.

25:38You got to go up and down, and I don't want anybody to fall or trip. So when they walk in the door to check in, we check their outfits, and you have to tie your shoes. Some kids don't even know how to tie these shoes. I have videos where I have to show them how to tie these shoes. Are you 18, 17, 18 years old, and you don't know how to tie your shoes? So I get down, and I show them how to tie their shoes. They take the shoe strings and stick them in the side of their shoes, and they don't tie them. And their shoes go up and down, up and down, up and down. So I'm like, no, not in my building. You're 17 years old and don't know how to tie your shoes.

26:17Wow. You'd be surprised at some of the things we find. And now we got a thing where all the boys are wearing their hair and braids and they're covering their eyes. So I told them last week, I said, I bought these little rubber bands. And I said, I need you to tie your hair. I need to see your face. I need to see your beautiful eyes. Well, that's the style. Well, not in here. That's not the style. If you don't like it, you can leave. They put that hair back, but that's the thing. Everybody want to have their eyes like, let me see your beautiful eyes. Why are you doing this to me? Okay, Miss Renee.

26:53My God, what a force of nature. When is there going to be like the Renee Fluker movie here? Can you get us started, please? I want to write a book. I really want to write a book. I want to tell my story so that other people might have a different idea. They may want to do tennis, or they may want to do art. You know what I'm saying? Or they want to do something. But I think if they can hear what I'm saying, that you can do it. If you believe in it, and you can touch it, and you motivate it, then you can do it. But you've got to feel it. And I feel it every day of my life. I filled this program.

27:30And I missed out on my life just because of Midnight Golf. I'm not married. So what's going to happen? Who's going to take care of me in the next 20 years, 10 years? You know? I'm going to be all by myself and all my Midnight Golf kids like the old lady in the shoe. All those kids, she didn't know what to do.