Episode 379: Kat Timpf: Breaking Binary Thinking and Cancel Culture + Promoting Nuanced Political Discourse

0:01Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it.

0:09Okay, so today we have Kat Timph. Never. Is it? Yeah. Oh, wow. On the podcast. And Kat is, besides being a formative candidate, is a comedian, a writer, a political pundit analyst. Yeah, sure. Yes. Good? Okay. No worries. When else did you put yourself in the set? I'm a writer, comedian, and I call to the guy on the show. On Fox. The father-hops. Pregnant. Yeah. I think I kind of mentioned it all. Yes. And this is your second book. Yes. Yes. And the book is called, I Used to Like You and Till, in the brackets, How Bioner's Thinking Divide Us. And it was, your first book was a New York Times bestseller.

0:51And this book actually doesn't even, it's not even up to go. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's out of counter time. Thank you. Hopefully it's going to sound great because I think this is a really important issue. I think that now we will let a single difference in terms of viewpoint or association even or perception about a person be enough to write on the person entirely I think that that tells everything we need to know about a person well let's have to begin first of all okay so it's about binary thinking let's just first talk about what in your what is binary thinking in your opinion basically I mean just so everyone's kind of clear on what this is about it yeah because binary can mean lots of different things right now yeah i just say us us versus them one side or the other i go through this a lot because i'm independent with a plane but i also work at fox so i get it from both sides how do you work at fox it's and then also have this ideology it's very interesting yeah so i'm an independent so it depends on the issue of over over overall i'm just a little bit but that can put me at odds with or an agreement with all of the parties sometimes depending on what the issue is so i'm in this position where i will get sort of criticized is a nice way or really horrific things up to me so then if i view as a fox because if i criticize trump or i'm not concerned about an issue but then there's people on the other side some of that may even talk to me at all because i work at fox they're like well that tells me everything you know i need to know about you and it's really frustrating because neither of those things really just fried me right and i think that a lot of issues are complex and people are always complex and nuanced and i think that we lose a lot when we keep just writing people off because of one thing about them we think that we know everything about people based on nothing yeah well that's welcome to the world we live in today right like i don't feel like it was ever like this to the extent and it's just i feel getting worse and yeah right and social media has been like the biggest culprit for this and so you know it's funny because even when i was telling you earlier i posted something today that was political which i never really do because a i'm scared yeah right and b because like every time i speak out and say something i get like just trolled and you know that the whole hate culture or the cancel culture of like even even if they if you have a different an opinion people are even scared to even talk about it so they just either go with what's popular or like pc or they just stay sad and to me there's like there's nothing there's nowhere to go from there yeah i read about that in the book actually too there's actually huge gaps uh studies show this is yeah opinion and what people believe and then what they say that they believe because they think that's what they need to say and then also i think that if you are someone who's on one of the two sides so let's say you have a career as a republican or you talk you're talking and talks um you're liberal and you have this audience and you know that your audience is getting upset with you if you really say something kind of against your side or that you like something that the other side did and some people won't do that and i think that you know i understand how it can be tough to actually, because you've been on social media, to have to see all that hate.

4:07But at the end of the day, people kind of get over it. Eventually, they move on. I have people, you know, I get criticized by some people who can feel like a lot. But then also the viewers of Fox come out to my shows, right? I mean, well, on live shows, they come out. So it's not like it's everybody that's watching that's yelling at me. But in the moment, it can feel like everybody's yelling at you. Everybody hates you. And people kind of want to try to avoid that. But ultimately, I think we're creating this society where we're not having conversations with each other and we're not finding agreement even when we really could find it.

4:37Right. I think that we're all more alike than we're not. But yet at the same time, I think there is, because I think people are afraid of cancel culture. And so that's why people are not having that in the beginning. Because you saw what happened, you know, years ago when it started. And it's people because of that are very, very shell-shocked. that when I do this show or this podcast or even in like the life, right? Or in social media, I say all sorts of things and people say to me all the time in private, oh my God, I totally agree with you. But I'm too scared to say that and fumble it, right?

5:13Yeah. You get that all the time. I get that all the time. I've also gotten, I recently found out, I have a friend who went through a breakup and her boyfriend was a, I don't know, her boyfriend was a Hollywood director. And you know how when friends go through breakups, you always find out things that they didn't tell you. Yeah, of course. So she actually told me that he wouldn't send her pictures that he had taken of the two of us because he was worried that she would post the pictures and people would see that his girlfriend was with me, which would then affect his career. And I went through this thing for a while.

5:46I was really sad. So I was like, I thought this person was my friend. I mean, they already got it for a very long time. They already got it for almost 10 years. I had a really small wedding. I had 30 people there. He was one of the people there, even though some friends, partners weren't there. Even some friends weren't there. And I was like, I thought that this person liked me. I thought we had a friendship. And then I realized he did do okay. That part was genuine, that we got along. He was just too afraid to post. Oh, I have his girlfriend on a picture with me in it because of what I do for a script.

6:16And there are a lot of people like that. I have people privately tell me, you know, people who are famous, well-known. Oh, I'm really like, I don't want to follow you or like your post because people might and say this is just ridiculous it's ridiculous well okay let's just talk about this right because it's it's it's prevalence right now that is not as prominent as it was the october 7th right the whole war right pro israel pro palestine i'm going to tell you right now i'm pro israel right and i'm i'm very hardcore about it now however not being by any right here i do see that those shades of gray with a lot of things that are happening however when i'm up there on my platform talking about it, that's exactly what would happen.

6:54People are afraid to post about me, the same as your friend with a boyfriend, because they're nervous that that's going to have a ripple effect of what that's going to mean on other things. And the other side is that people who do believe in what you're saying, they double down on you, right? So it's very interesting how people's psychology work in this way, and how you're not allowed to have an opinion, and yet still be able to see other pieces of the opinion because you're unable to like me and disagree with me at the same time. That is basically my point in public. And for me, my life is very much like that.

7:33I mean, I have people who are on all sides of pretty much every issue. And they're all very valuable relationships to me in some way or another. I can't imagine going through life without some of these relationships. You know, there might be very strong, strong disagreements on various political issues, be it about the election or if they are about foreign policy or things like that. I think we want all sides of every issue, but we love all the things in common that we can kind of unite around. And I feel like my life is richer because of that. And I think it's really sad that a lot of people can't kind of do that themselves.

8:11So what brought you to write this book? Like in terms of like you were a comedian, you were right. I even saw that you used to be a writer for Barstools. Yeah. I did a lot of really fun. I was doing videos for Barstools. That's so funny. I know. Actually, she's been on the show a bunch. I'm friends with Erica. She's amazing. She'd go along with it. I thought that was really funny. So right away, though, that tells me something. When I saw that was part of your bio. Yeah. But you kind of get keyed into, okay, this person is like, in my opinion, she's cool. she's not like so you know she's not so conservative in some ways she can be fun you know what i mean like people do get that kind of vibe based on what your background it's like everyone's background shows and then they can make a decision but um anyway my point is like go ahead i didn't make sense for up to you but no i mean i thought the idea for this book when i was on my after i wrote the first one when i was kind of on my way to the tour for the second one and I just as I was going along on the tour I became more sure I needed to write this book and was starting writing this book because I was kind of willing it I was going around the country I was meeting all these different kinds of people and I saw how much that we really did have in common and also I kept having the same experience at these theaters where I would go and the staff at the theater would always say to my team when I was on stage like she works at Fox News just because of the show that I was doing.

9:33And it's like, well, yeah, I do. And I also am this way around there too. I mean, I'm fully welcome to be myself and say my opinion. And even though it might be different than what other people's is. And I think that we're really losing out a lot. We let one thing be enough to not, to completely write off the humanity of another person. And, but I think that we're being manipulated too. I think that the people in power over us, division works great for them because it's really great to say a vote for me is a vote not just against somebody you disagree with but avoid against actual evil that's really motivating and i i mean but it's also motivating for people to say you know i'm on the good side and the other side's bad then you get to be good just because you're not on the bad side and that can be really hard to give up too but we're really losing more by because it could be working together so many more things right but okay so wait because you grew up growing catholic was it yeah super catholic super count yes so this is a far cry because that was like you were probably grew up very conservative right so i grew up very afraid of the devil yeah yeah yeah and now you work for the devil for some people for some people yeah i grew up like actually truly terrified of the devil i mean i i was raised very very catholic i'm totally agnostic now i'm just a question mark.

10:54I think I'll be happier if I were religious because I would not to think that on a stage of being older and then die, that's kind of a bummer. But I think it's a huge bummer. But I mean, yeah, I was very extremely, extremely Catholic. So what was your evolution? How did you go from one extreme until where you are now? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I took it seriously. I was doing bright and water fast in the fourth grade, her souls and purgatory. Oh, wow. I was very serious about it. I think part of it was I was having sex with my high school boyfriend, which is like a pretty normal thing to do.

11:32But to me, I was like, I'm going to go to hell because I'm doing this. So why should I stop doing this? I will confess it to the priest that I was doing it. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and then eventually I just kind of thought, you know, do I really think that I deserve to go to hell for all of eternity and be in eternal torment because I'm having sex with my boyfriend? And then I realized I don't think that I do. And so that's what kind of, I mean, in general, I think some of the things that, and I also that the Catholic church that you went to is really, that's a moral sin. And then, like, if you go to confession, then you're good.

12:10But if, let's say, I went to my girlfriend's house and sexed my boyfriend, and it was on my way to confession, I got hit by a car, then I would go to hell for it. Right? Because I don't have to do the confession yet. To me, that just didn't, that didn't actually sit right with me. I was like, I think that I'm actually, like, not hurting anybody. Right. And so, like, what, how old were you when you kind of had this, like, I mean, I was like 17, 18. I was probably, I was Catholic until I was about, like, 18 or 18. I'm wondering if it's because I find that I'm poor so extreme in one area the pendulum usually does the opposite side and it is actually I write a whole chapter about religion in my book which I mean my mom died 10 years ago but my mom's been so very religious there is definitely pressure on me people want me to leave as I write about my book which I'm terrified of people to read about I decided to be older about that was tough with me and her and you know People get sometimes at me so it's on purpose.

13:06I actually told God, hey, let's take a hike. I'm not interested in life. That's not true. I love the idea of eternal life and happiness. I just can't get there. I can't. I hope to someday believe in something, but I don't know. Did your mom before your mother died, were you able to reconcile your situation with her? I think the conversations you have after death are the only ones like that in the movies. yeah i think you know like she was like i'm thirsty like i don't feel good like she's dying you know but we were still in a relationship we had a relationship yeah it wasn't like she was you're not straight you weren't strange but it was you know a lot and my mom was awesome she was actually kind of a living embodiment a lot of these are in this book she was very very catholic she was so really vulgar she was really friendly yeah she's really funny i remember with some of the nurses on her hospital shoes out, describe her as a leaf.

14:03I'll mention the Pope and dick jokes. Like she was, you wouldn't know when you interacted with her that she was as religious as you have. But she took, she was an awesome hand. Truly an awesome hand. But like, she doesn't want me to go to hell. So you kind of understand where she's coming from, how it's not that simple to just be like, oh, that's okay that you don't because in her mind, I'm going to hell. So how do you kind of get past that? You kind of can't get past that. And she actually, she was in the hospital where she died she didn't have last rites she didn't have last rites and then she told the priest like I'm I'm I'm worried about that she made me my brother and sister and my dad go to confet like maybe hear our confessions in the hospital because she asked him about it he was like we don't really do that and she was like I see an open officer over there but she also you know who does like how does she get him to do that yeah it's really remarkable but it was it was really tough and I wish people could just understand that it's not like I am rejecting the idea of eternal life on purpose, if that makes sense.

15:02Yeah, no, it does make sense to me. Although all of this is kind of a little bit upside-by. Other than experiencing it and understanding it, I've never been in your situation. But what about, now you're a libertarian, that's how you kind of speak. How would you describe that? Because everybody I speak to, whenever I ask them what their definition of a libertarian is, it's always different. Yeah. Always. And so I'm even confused. I'm like, well, does that mean you're kind of more, are you a Republican or not a Republican? Are you like the opposite? What does it mean to you? A lot of people say they're more authoritarian, but they're not.

15:42It just depends on the issue. Yeah. I think that's what I do. I think it's not. I mean, it's pretty simple. I say free markets and no juggies. That's what it means to me. Yes. So it means small government, but all across the world. And that includes social issues. So I'm different than a lot of Republicans in that sense. I am anti-war, which depends on the war in the political parties. And it's for smaller governments. So you don't agree with high standards. That's for the war. Well, I think that, do you want to talk about this super, super, super complicated geopolitical? No, but I'm telling you, but this one is about being non-binary, right?

16:21I think it's about, so I think in terms of the United States and involvement and, you know, being the world's police son, I think that we haven't done a very good job of it. I think with all the things, so my husband and I, he is a Afghan war veteran, right? And he went over to Afghanistan and that was a decade's conflict. And what exactly did we get from that? I know, it's true. What exactly did we get? And you said this, if you were ever to say this, you were a terrorist or a traitor or a terrorist sympathizer. And, you know, I think that's war makes a lot of money. And it was really hard watching him go through that because it's, you know, he lost friends, friends, classes, and then he died over there.

17:04And, you know, I think that we have to be able to ask questions about everything. We have to be able to say this thing doesn't make sense. We have to be able to listen to each other and not just be like, oh, you said that, therefore you're with the terrorists or you're with us. And it's also the same way, like with Israel saying you feel for the hostages. I mean, to you, that's, you should feel for innocent. I feel for innocent civilians everywhere. Right? Right. But that's, you can't even say that anymore. You can't say that. I can say that. definitely because people like to have i think it makes people feel very comfortable and safe when they have like a sky yep and and like so you're fighting with like human nature in that way right like you know it makes me feel comforted when i'm like you know that's like kind of like with habits and routines and only things i talk about is because it gives you a sense of comfort and like predictability yeah right it is to do what i write about this okay it's going against human nature it absolutely is going against human nature yeah humans are tribal humans get good you know the bonding chemicals go off when they are not just engaging people what they see as their tribe but also i mean everybody knows bonding by talking shit about somebody in the group chat i mean that's so true that's what people do though they do they bond over like misery enjoys company that's kind of what they're like people bond over talking shit yeah so true they do and i think this just happened on such a larger scale but when we do engage with people who are different from us we learn a lot i mean if we don't do that we are so so binary thinking is basically the analytical thinking and i say this in the book and that's because if you pick aside all the thinking is already been done for you yeah so you don't have to stop and assess the issue and that's easier but also when people aren't thinking dumb things can happen but that also it means it's the enemy of kind of thinking creatively and and you just miss out on these opportunities and so much research shows whether it is religion whether it is politics no matter what it is if you get just get to know people who are from a different religion or from a different background or who have different views, you will not be as easily subjected to believing things about them that aren't true because we're wrong about each other all the time.

19:28Research tries that out too, that often Democrats will believe that a way higher percentage of Republicans believe in so-called extreme beliefs than they actually do. And the same goes for the other side. And the only way around it is unfortunately going against human nature and getting to know people that are not and you're all both essentially was there any particular story or anything that kind of happened to you that kind of even preempted the fact that you really wanted to write this book like was there well this happened this this this scenario happened i know you talked about like bill mar in your book isn't this well yeah i think it was just the experience of working while i work and go and every time you go out to a party meeting people let's have a question over I was asked to see, like, what do you do?

20:14And I'm always, I write my book that I said that I work in porn before, which I've done. I've actually, and that's only with people that I know that I'm never going to see. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to be working porn. I'm like, oh, that's so cool. And then it's like, actually, they move on, basically. It's not a big deal. But if I say, because if I say it, we're going to Fox News, people will then, it's not a conversation. People will project every thought and opinion about Fox onto you. And it's just exhausting. And it's like, I'm almost, and I just don't want to deal with that. I'll say I'm a writer.

20:45I've said, um, no, thank you. When people have asked me and the people have weirded out, they just said, like, really? Yes. Because, yeah. No, thank you. No, thank you. What do you do for Orgarson? I say, no, thank you. And then people are like, okay. Because when I say Fox News, it just changes the Bible. And it shouldn't, because again. But doesn't that tell you something though, right there? It was. Like, to me, that says, like, these, the Democratic people, the left people, whatever, they're more, they're much more critical and binary than the right side. But yet, a lot of times the right side gets overly criticized for being too binary.

21:27See, I get it from both sides. I guess, for me, it's interesting because I don't work. Yeah, I get it from both sides. I'll get it, you know, oftentimes for social issues, I'll get stuff from the right. Or, you know, my skirts too short when I wear and she crafts my attitude. Definitely the religion thing. Definitely the religion thing. Well, since time, by the way, religion and politics are the two things that you should never talk about. Yeah, and I do. I write all about it. And I get this idea for a living, sorry about politics. So I definitely get from both sides. I'd say the difference is, and I don't know if that's just simply because of where I work, but I find that more people on the right are at least willing to speak with me.

22:07Sometimes people on the left won't talk to me at all. Like, I'm not allowed in the room because of where I work. What's your actual opinion? And you have gray areas. What's your political stance? Just let's have them. So, across the board. So, I don't vote. I've never voted for a vote in order to cry. I always vote third party. I've never. I never have, and I don't intend to. Like what's happening now, you know, RFK now is going to be endorsing. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Which I was shocked about that. What do you think of all that stuff? So I understand in some ways why he did it. And there is a lot of pressure to sort of pick a side, they say.

22:43I really hope that he doesn't stop being able to. Because what I really like about RFK, you know, I disagree with some things, other things, whatever. I like the invoice. voice. I like that he would criticize the policy and he would not criticize or he would not be swaying based on whose policy it was or the comments. So he would say, I disagree with this, or I think this is a good idea, whether it was coming from Biden and Conwell or it was coming from Trump. And I hope he doesn't lose that because he's endorsed Trump, because he even said And in his speech, he endorsed him. He said, you know, I do disagree with something Trump said, but da-da-da-da-da-da.

23:24So I, you know, I hope he doesn't lose that because I think those voices are really rare and really kind of precious with the way things are now. Yeah. I mean, listen, I've wanted to hear him speak. A bunch of my different friends had him for fundraising and stuff like that. But the truth of the matter is that people in that position don't have a chance. All of you is taking those away from someone else that you may want to win. Do you know what I'm saying? You see, I understand that, but I don't have, people say this the whole time, but I don't. Like, my vote belongs to me. And people will say, you know, you just have to get over it and make a side.

24:01And I don't fit in on either side. So who are you going to vote for now? Probably the Libertarian candidate. Yeah, just whoever that may be. So for me, it's not so much done voting for the Libertarian candidate themselves. because libertarian party can be pretty embarrassing a lot. I'm voting for a system where it doesn't matter so much who wins. I mean, I think we put so much emphasis on which people are in power and not enough emphasis on the amount of power that those people have. Yeah, that's actually very true. You know? Yeah.

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26:26What do you think of Convola? Like, were you said, I mean... What's there to think with her? Like, she doesn't, she doesn't say anything. Nothing. You're preaching to the conversion. She's truly been on every side of most issues. So I don't know what side she is on other than now. You know that right now, she also said that she was going to be putting hundreds of millions of dollars to the wall that they started, that Donald Trump started, right? After constant criticism of how that wall was such a divide. Like, that's the problem. However, the issue I have is that women, because she's a woman, people are going to vote for her just on that alone, without knowing her policies, not knowing what she's going to stand for.

27:06She really doesn't stand for anything. The media makes it always awesome. I mean, that's the problem. We call this manufactured thing of like, she's cool. Cool? You know, she's a girl that you want to go out with. You want to go out with her? No, I know it's not. But I mean, it's all manufactured. yeah but see that's the problem also right so people are getting swayed more to one side or the other depending on what media they're following you know media is a really big problem because it's all proper like no a lot of it is not true it's not authentic you work in me you work i work at yeah i work at fox and it's interesting to me i you know i write i actually just directly address it i write a lot about fox and he's kind of as a lightning rod in the book and you know it's really interesting to you when people are like how much you work there and Fox is this and you start but it's like well yeah it is but you're you're acting like there's no media with a liberal slant yeah you know there's a lot of media with a liberal slant and also for me it's just a platform you know it's a platform that I'm very grateful for it it's just and it worked elsewhere so I don't really know but having that freedom they don't ever tell me I can't say something at Fox I've never really been like I want to say this I'm told I can't So I'm very grateful for that.

28:21How did you get the job at Fox? Like what was the process? Like what did you do? Um, let's do like, again, like a professional evolution. Yeah, I was a writer and I just been doing guest appearances on Fox. And I eventually got on Bread Eye, which was the correct 3am show before he had the new show. I don't know. It was a show called Bread Eye at 3am. I used to actually watch it back when I lived in LA, I was working at the waitress and working at Boston Market. and I was like, I'd be really good on a show and I'm saying that to when I was watching with my boyfriend and his brother and his brother would be like, you're a cashier at Boston Market so I showed him right, but that's a great story so you were working at Boston see this is the cliff either so you were working at Boston Market cashier, how many years ago?

29:09gosh, it's been, so I always know how old my cat is, so it's been 14 years yeah so you're half like a full time yeah so 14 years ago you were working in washington market you're watching this show yeah at 3 a.m on fox so you go thunderclap night in la right right and they were like hey you know i've been really good on this show yeah okay yeah and i always wanted to you know work with greg and i started getting guest appearances on fox just because of my writings and i was shooting videos i was doing i finally got on my eye i was so nervous but i just kind of pretended i wasn't there and greg and i had it off we had really great you know iron chemistry and so he kept asking me to come back the most you could get asked back as a guest number is like every two weeks so I was going back every two weeks and then during that time I had an email that I they wanted me to fill in all pilot they were doing which I understood was an audition which is for like the new weekly show so I did that and I got the job basically so I mean it was kind of crazy just you know how specific of a goal that I set that happened really crazy wow that is so crazy yeah i even think to be honest it's crazy that at 21 years old you were watching that show yeah well ryan was like a rushy kind of weird i don't know how else to describe it show uh is it a popular show it was like three in the morning but i have like a cult fall as i say like what kind of like what kind of numbers was the show getting i had no idea but it was I think it was a lot of food service employees yeah yeah yeah that is amazing yeah and so you've been at Fox for the school time I've been at Fox for nine nine years now well so just kind of different in different ways and different in like positions basically the shows I've always yeah I've always been on great show we were just a weekly show at first and then now we're on every night and I do obviously other shows there as well wow and then you also tour them with the can be the food economy.

31:00Yeah, I'm on tour, yeah. So do you, like, stand-up at, like, the comedy store and all that, too? Or is it just... I think most... I was doing stand-up to kind of just prepare for my tour in New York, getting up around New York and stuff, trying out new stuff. But I'm on tour every weekend. But I'm not on the show. It's a thing to be a session of one or two. So... Do you like a Netflix special? No, not yet. I don't know. Yeah, but it's a new one. It's a new one. This is going to be, like, the Boston Market thing. But yes, you know, it's a lot of guys. As you said, I'm having a Netflix. Yeah, I think I would be really good at that.

31:32I'd be really good at that. So you don't open up for anybody else if I'm, you know, on tour? Not anymore. I mean, I don't know when I was. Quite frankly. And now you're having me. Yes, I'm also having me. Wow. So your schedule is basically, you still write independently for other people besides Wilton Forest. Yes, folks. So I'm on Fox by Nights at Me, and I'm on tour the next time on Fox. Wow. I think I'll have like one or two weekends off before I'm not on the fly anymore because of the baby. I know. So what are you going to do? What to have the baby? My best. Yeah. My best. I love that one. I don't know.

32:06I didn't really Google it. I was kind of just like, all right, well, I'll, you know, take, I'll get my birth control out. And I got pregnant. On your funeral? No. I'm not. I can say, yeah. Like all I did was upset, which I understand that's how that works. Yeah. That's kind of my thing. I don't. Well, like, I just, that can't be, that can't. How is that? How? You know, I didn't get any of my sins. No, I don't even know how to hold a baby. So I'm going to have to find someone to hold someone's baby. You know, it's so funny. Some things are so funny. You know what I had on before you came on? It was like the leading child development psychologist in the country, whatever.

32:43And we actually were talking about that before, how there's no license to have a baby. Like, people were completely incompetent, not to say you are, incompetent or someone Thomas had a baby and people just have to figure it out as they go and that's figure it out like I think you're gonna figure it out that's unhoping you know I mean I'll figure it out right and I mean yeah you know I mean you're smart I mean I never felt like saw myself as somebody that want to have kids and my husband I was like I want his kids I think really yeah how long have you guys been together we've been together it'll be six years but I didn't like a bird oh wow so is he in the same world as you or at all he's a finance guy oh he is yeah he likes spreadsheets no way he likes me what am I doing he actually likes it he loves spreadsheets he enjoys it he's he's obviously brain of mine how like how did you guys meet him right I've known the day yeah you oh really yeah I met a lot of people that were not my husband on right I'm sure he was like I didn't like him at first he's an only my type I really like only like the creative type Yeah, and stuff like that.