Episode 390: Lee Trink: Are We Raising a Generation That Can’t Handle Real Life? Discover What’s Holding Them Back

0:01Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

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1:31Welcome to this solo duo episode that we're doing today with my friend Lee Trink. Hi. Hello, Lee. How are you, Jen? Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Lee teases me. Thanks for inviting me to your solo. You're welcome. He keeps on teasing me because he says it's not a solo if he's here. I'm sitting here. I'm sitting here. What do I know? I know. But like I said in an earlier episode that it's more to have someone to kind of debate with and go back and forth. and we used to call them solos. So you're right. Just thank you for joining me on this shorter episode. My pleasure. Today's topic is going to be on likability.

2:09And this is why. It's my belief that in order to achieve your most ambitious goals, no matter what they are, before you have the grit, before you have the tenacity, before you have the boldness, the precursor to any of that is likability. because if you're not likable, you're unable to have the boldness, let's say, to get away with certain things or to ask for certain things because people will be less likely to help you if you're not likable. So what my first question to you, that's my opinion. I think likability is the precursor for everything. Would you tend to agree or disagree? So I agree, but I think likability takes on many forms.

3:00And also if you're too likable, then it actually doesn't work in your favor because people, I think, treat you like a doormat, right? Like I think defining what likability is, is important. I think the other, the other, the other thing I would say about people is some people like assholes. Like you've done well. I mean, look, there are plenty of people that would call me an asshole. I'm sure. I was going to say, you know what? There's always an anomaly. I mean, it's true. It's true. But I would also say that like - Do you think you're an asshole? No. I don't think I'm an asshole, but I bet there are people who think I'm an asshole.

3:34Why do you think people think you're an asshole? I don't know. Because I think that I'm confident and sometimes people will confuse confidence for arrogance. And I don't think I'm arrogant, but I think that I'm confident and I think I own my own shit. And believe me, I'm very far from perfect, but I own my own shit. You know what it is about you? You're aloof. I am aloof. That's the word, aloof. I think people mistake arrogance for aloofness. You could be aloof and people think you're arrogant. Yeah. It depends on the context too, right? Okay. But do you think your aloofness or quote unquote arrogance, let's just say, has worked to your advantage?

4:12I think it's probably a mixed bag. I don't think I've ever suffered from a likability problem, right? I think that whatever it is, the full composite is interesting enough. Like I think sometimes being interesting and maybe magnetism is another quality. Maybe it's a component of likability or maybe it's a counterbalance, right? Because I think if there are people, and forget about me, I don't want to sit here and talk about me, but just thinking about people that other people gravitate towards, right? I think that there's sometimes magnetism in those people that comes with some other stuff that maybe, if you talk about those traits, are not that likable.

4:51Like, maybe part of the reason I say that is where, you know, my background working with a lot of musicians and rock stars, like, that is magnetism. Likeability is kind of not, their rules of likability are not the same for regular people. And I think that that also is the same for people in general. Like, likabilities can take on different forms. Okay, I'll tell you something that's interesting. So I listened to Jared Leto on SmartList the other day. I think I told you. So just quickly, Lee used to manage. I helped break 30 Seconds to Mars as an artist. Right. And Kid Rock and a bunch of these people, Katy Perry, a bunch.

5:32But I was going to say, I listened to Jared and he was very likable on the SmartList podcast. Why? And this is where I'm going to get into it. I found him to have a lot of humility. He sounded to have like a softness and a sweetness about him. And he had this like, aw shucks type of thing. And he also portrayed a good work ethic. So if that, to me, that's what made him feel likable. Now I know, just as well as you do, that perception is not always reality and optics are optics. But if he's going for being likable, I think those are really key touch points. to have. And so at least he knows he has a wherewithal to know that to be likable, he has to have these certain things.

6:18Now, I guess my first question is, is he really those things? Oh, I think so. I would also say he's one of the toughest guys I've ever worked with, right? But he's also one of the most hardworking. So there are things that balance each other out, Like, again, really difficult, but has a point of view and is able to deliver and does the work himself. So like, you know, I say, okay, I'll take the sum of those parts. Okay. So that's interesting, right? So then let's break it down. Like what, in your opinion, do you think makes somebody likable? I think that there's not a one size fits all in likability.

6:56I think some people make that aw shuck. I don't think he's an aw shucks likable guy. He was on that podcast. I mean, it's interesting. I should listen to it. I told you to listen to it. Yeah, I know, I know. Because he came across— But I mean, he's like a mega—like the guy is like an Oscar-winning, you know, actor and rock star, like, you know— And the most beautiful human being on the planet. The guy's 52 years old. You can't get further away from aw shucks than— No, no, no. But look, he's not—and I also think in a way he's gotten nicer in some ways because he's accomplished so much. And I think that also helps, right?

7:33Like if you're talking about the ultra successful. He came a long way from my so-called life, number one. Okay. Like that was definitely not like he, like we all probably, like me as a girl, like we all had the biggest crush on him. We thought would never see him again. Like he looked like he was a one hit, you know, thing that was a pretty face. Next thing, who knew he was like this amazing actor, this amazing musician. And by the way, on that podcast, he was talking about how he climbed the Empire State Building. like i mean like it's like but legit like climbed it but the reason why i'm saying that is let's just take it back a second because i think that you think you think i should say you think that there's a whole different like soup of a variety of different qualities that make somebody likable depending on the situation i still believe you right yeah i believe yeah i think whatever the hundred percent of likability is there's a dozen different traits you can have one of them three of them, six of them in whatever combination, and you make it work as a package.

8:32Okay. So let's just say there's a menu, right? I still think there's foundationally things that make people likable. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I think that if someone is not that likable, they can improve their likability by working on some core elements. I agree with that. Okay. So one of the elements that I think that makes somebody exceptionally likable is enthusiasm. If someone brings enthusiasm to a situation or positivity, automatically, they're going to be more likable than someone who's a negative Nelly. That's the first thing. Okay. I think the second thing is humility.

9:10That's why when Jared Leto showed humility to me, I found it to be something that I like took note of. I think, you know, the idea that you're not braggadocious, that you have a humbleness about you, I think it's very, very attractive. And And it doesn't matter if you're a guy or a girl. The other thing I think is super likable is someone who's very generous. Generous with your time, generous with not just, not money, but just like generous in like your thoughts and your time and always available to be generous to help somebody. Those are some of the, I mean, there's other ones as well. So I wanna push back on some of those, on the requirement of, if you're saying those are like requirements for like - No, not requirements.

9:49Those are - The kind of foundational core. And there's other ones too. I think there are other ones too. Let me give you an example of one trait that can make up for deficiency and even the wrong direction of some of those traits. Okay. Sense of humor. I think if you have a sense of humor, that makes up for a lot of things. First of all, people, they can't help themselves. If you can make somebody laugh, you disarm them from a lot of things. And so if you are somebody with no humility, but you have a good sense of humor, it's just disarming enough and people will like you despite the fact that there are traits that they dislike about you.

10:32Totally true. Name somebody that you think of. Like, think of somebody that you know who has a really good sense of humor, but like is kind of like an asshole. Look, I'm going to go back to just well-known. No, I mean, I think I use humor sometimes to do that. I'm joking. You're not that funny. I'm not as funny as I used to be. That's another issue. That's a whole other podcast. But I'm going to pick, you know, instead of picking up, you know, Joe Schmo that nobody knows, I'll pick somebody that people know, like Kid Rock. Kid Rock is funny. Kid Rock can also be a huge asshole. And now, look, if putting aside the rock star factor that nobody can just add on to themselves, right, which also kind of masks up, people tolerate a lot of stuff, But even forget about that.

11:18Let's talk about our friends who that rock star part doesn't really matter much to them. But he can be an asshole. But his antidote to that is he is funny. He's really funny. And that is a counterbalance. And he's not always an asshole. And he happens to have some of those other traits that you talk about. He is generous. He's generous with his friends. He's generous with his time. He's generous with his money in being a philanthropist, you know, although he doesn't talk, but, but I think if we're talking about humor, he uses humor really well. Frankly, even Jared, Jared is funnier than most people would think he is because that's not what he portrays.

11:57His like, what he leads with is not humor. Sometimes I, and I would even say that about me, like I don't necessarily lead all the time with humor. Some people might find it surprising that I'm, that I'm funny or that I think I'm funny. Yeah, I would never describe you as funny, but you're humorous. I know when you're in a good mood because you're more levity to you, but that's another one, levity. I think when people have levity, but I think the sense of humor to me is such a good one. Yeah, you don't need it to be likable, but boy, is it great in your bag of tricks. That's a really true... Okay, name another one.

12:35another trait yeah maybe this is related to funny but it's not if you're like i have i have a there's a friend of mine now that he's just fun he's a guy i know sitting my buddy joe i don't know if you've ever met so like he's a guy that you could sit at you know sit at table and he'll turn whatever these these objects into a game right he does things like that all the time and it's silly and it's goofy. And it's not like he's just fun. He's always looking for fun. And he's somebody people gravitate to. He's, by the way, he's a huge pain in the ass. Huge. He's one of the biggest pains in the asses that I know.

13:12And people tolerate it from, they tolerate things from him that they don't tolerate from anybody. I'm talking about, I'm really doxing, you know, I'm doxing my friend, but all my friends would agree. We tolerate things from Joe because he's fun to be around. He's fun to be around. Even if he makes it excruciatingly difficult. even to coordinate time with. Okay. I thought, you know what? I didn't say one that I think is really important is authenticity. I think if someone has authenticity, they're a real person, that is automatically likable in a real way. Because like what I was going to say earlier was that if you're funny and have a great sense of humor, yeah, like you're super likable to someone maybe on the surface.

13:52Like, oh my God, I love them. They're so funny. And so like, I would like to hang out with them or like I get a kick out of them. But like, would I take it a step further and actually want to be really close friends with them? That's like a different level of likability. So I think when someone is actually authentic and real, that like makes somebody not just likable, but someone that you really, really want to invest time in and build a friendship and relationship with. I think part of it is consistency, right? Like authenticity is kind of akin to consistency. It means that like who they purport to be is who they really are.

14:26So you're not going to get some random, you're not going to get some volatile personality or some differing personality. So you feel more confident investing time in them because you're like, this is the genuine article. This is person. And also it makes you, I think it's part of magnetism, right? People gravitate to authenticity and people reward it, right? People reward authenticity in a world that's kind of increasingly, you know, Instagram versus Phony. Exactly. Okay. So what qualities would you say make someone really unlikable besides phoniness? Yeah. I think phoniness is one of the worst, right?

15:04If people think you're phony, most people are just out. Unless they need you, unless they need you, most people are out. Do you know what I think is really a dislikable quality? I think pretentiousness. I think it's such an ugly quality. And why there's such a disconnect for me is that so much of Instagram and social media is based around this like pretense that you have a lot of money, that you have a plane, that you have like this nice house when all of these things could be rented by the hour and most people know it. And yet they're being applauded for these things. Like, I guess the disconnect for me is like the pre, even though pretentious, like pretentious people are such an unlikable trait, it's been like glamorized with social media.

15:48I don't get it. So I'm going to play a little devil's advocate because there's not a one size fits all. There are plenty of pretentious people who hang out amongst themselves. That's the language they use. It's like they're peacocking for each other, right? And I would say there's probably country clubs that are like filled with pretentious people. And not to paint with a broad brush. That's so true though, you're right. And they kind of like birds of a feather flock together. They flock together, right? So like then it becomes like, you know. Are you pretentious? I don't think so. I think I'm not.

16:25I think I'm earnest. But look, I - Poor Lee, he's in a hot seat. No, but look, I think that I'm misunderstood by a lot of people. But it doesn't, it also, I'm not really, it doesn't concern me. Right. It's never slow. I think whatever the composite of what I am is interesting enough for people. I have no shortage of friends, no shortage of opportunities. And so if any of those things are a problem, they're a problem for me and things in my own head rather than an obstacle to anything. But I don't think I'm pretentious. I think that I'm actually quite earnest. And, you know, I think almost what is a sign of being not pretentious, which I think is something that I do constantly, is I'm self-deprecating.

17:09Back to Jared Leto. He's extremely self-deprecating. And that's disarming for people. Okay, so let's say that. Let's leave it with that because I think that's a good point. It shows Kid Rock, to some extent, self-deprecating. I think that's a really great one too. Being self-deprecating disarms people. So I guess at the end of the day, what makes somebody likable is their ability to be self-deprecating enough to disarm – or not self-deprecating, sorry. Is their ability to be disarming enough. Basically, you could have any negative quality, but if you are disarming enough, then you can get away with it.

17:45I go back to what I said before. There are a dozen, maybe there's 20 traits. And as long as your cocktail tastes good at the end, whatever ingredients you pull in and counterbalance your flaw. Look, we all have flaws. We all have things that we don't like about ourselves. Maybe other people don't like about us. But if you can kind of mix that cocktail in a way that tastes good for people, that's it. And it means that you don't, you know, you can have a glaring hole in that list, even in some of the foundational ones, if you've got this other trick up your sleeve that you're great at. Like again, the humor, humor, like almost will cover, like if you're like almost the funnier you are, and I'm not talking about slapstick or like slip on a banana peel funny, like that's not what people value.

18:34But if you're funny enough, that genuinely can make up for so many shortcomings. And look, frankly, if you think about comedians, comedians tend to be, put me again, painting with a broad brushstroke, fairly damaged people. Oh, totally, I agree. Like if you talk to people that have personal relationships with or romantic relationships with comedians, they'll give you chapter and verse about what a nightmare somebody is. But being funny as hell covers up for a lot of it. 1 ,000%. By the way, I don't know if you knew this or not, but I moved to LA because I got a job to work with a comedy manager because my biggest obsession is stand-up comedy.

19:16I love comedy more than anything. I love to laugh. I love stand-up. And I moved to LA. I was working with a really big agency, a very well-known one, and a big comedy manager. I literally lasted seven days and that was even too long because the actual business of it and what you really, when you peel back the curtain or you peel back whatever that is, the onion, whatever, and you see what actually happens in these people's real lives, it's so different than what you think. You think because they're hilarious on stage, they're going to be hilarious. Oh my God. And sometimes they are and sometimes they're not.

19:54Mostly they're depressed and difficult and super neurotic. That I literally was like, okay, I'm out. I want to do this as a hobby, as a pastime, but not as a job because of that. It's funny. If I think back of like one of the things I've missed in my career is that I would have loved to participate in. It's never too late, but it's comedy. Like I'm a student of comedy. I like the math of comedy. I think comedy is math to some extent. I never thought of myself as a stand-up comedian. That's not the direction I don't think. But the business of comedy, I'm infatuated with comedy. And I've always thought back and said, man.

20:34You can still do it. Of course, yeah. I almost joined Groundlings late in a decade, maybe less than 10 years. Why didn't you ever do it then? I was busy. I was busy. But yeah. You could do it now. I suppose. I'm busy now too. Well, you'll always be busy. I mean, this is a whole, we're going to do a whole podcast. Our next podcast is going to be about that. About comedy? Yeah. Or about like - Or about missed opportunities. Missed opportunities. Yeah, I don't even know if it's, I don't want to call it a missed opportunity. I would just say a road not traveled, right? Like, you know, I have another, a good idea for a podcast for us.

21:06Although I actually started thinking about writing a book about it. Really? Okay, well, we should do it then. Okay, well, Lee, we got to wrap this because they're supposed to be short solos slash duos. So guys, if you are listening to this podcast, By the way, if you've not subscribed yet to the podcast, please do so. Leave a review. That always helps us with rankings. So I would really appreciate if you can do that. And always leave a feedback, comment, whatever. I'm always very curious to hear what you have to say. And thank you. And if you have any suggestions, always give me a suggestion. Thank you for being on the podcast.

21:40Absolutely. Thanks for having me. And bye.

21:49Thank you.