Episode 397: Michael Easter on The Comfort Crisis: Is Optimizing Life Making Us Weaker?

25:19We don't have to physically go find food. We don't have to physically work to survive. We don't, we're not outside as much. our social lives have changed like all these different things have changed that have taken away just tons of stimulation from us and so without that we go looking for it elsewhere we play we play slot machines we spend a million hours on instagram we go on to rakuten is that what you called it yeah i don't know rak well you'll go on to right yeah rakuten but like what happens is you download this thing and it shows up like let's say if i'm on the bloomingdales I'm just making like if I'm on Bloomingdale's site, right?

25:57And it comes up like today, Rakuten, you know, Rakuten is 10%. It's already embedded into your computer. You got to download it. It says today, if you at Bloomingdale's, you get 10 % back. And so then you're like, oh, I'm for sure going to shop at Bloomingdale's now. Even if you weren't intending to do it. Right. So instead of like the stimulation that you would get normally hunting and gathering and living outside two million years ago it's like Rakuten has become that like oh here's this new thing you know yes exactly it makes it it makes it exciting but like I find like and you said this actually where it was in the book or I like I was like I did I read so both books and I like saw all the stuff that you did so I don't remember exactly where I saw what when I was like researching you before you came on the show but it's like you're it was also the fact that like you were saying like even when you don't have problems like the more minimal your problems are you actually like it's part of the nature now where we create problems or like we are our baseline for what is even a problem becomes lower yeah because we need to create this excitement this because it's like so scarce in our in our in our world in our life right now yeah so this is uh i wrote about this in the comfort crisis there's a comfort crisis i i'm telling you i found a lot of stuff my comfort crisis.

27:18I love. So it's called, the researchers call it prevalence-induced concept change. And what you can really think about it as is problem creep. And it basically explains that as humans experience fewer and fewer problems, we don't actually become more satisfied. We just lower our threshold for what we consider a problem. So we end up with the exact same number of problems. But over time, as the world has improved, our problems get more hollow, more silly over time. And so it's kind of like the science of first world problems. And they demonstrated this in a couple, the researchers were from Harvard and they did a couple studies that were really clever and kind of hilarious to find this.

27:57But yeah, long story short is that people will find problems no matter how good they have it.

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29:55So what does this tell you about where we're heading? You do all this traveling. What's the purpose of your traveling? Are you doing it just because you're, are you trying to like get, are you trying to, is it based on a hypothesis that you have in your head and then you reverse engineer to prove it? Like what, or is it just because you love to travel? You're, you're like an adrenaline junkie. You've been like, you went to Iraq in the most crazy times. Like what is the purpose or are you trying to figure out like where we're going in like in as a, as a society? because I could tell you, but what is the goal in mind?

30:30Yeah, you know, I think that I have learned, you know, my background is a journalist, and it's very easy to try and learn from a screen. You know, like I could read a bunch of studies and anecdotes and whatever, but I've always found that I get the most interesting stuff, the most true stuff, and also stuff that like you wouldn't expect. Like I've had things that I totally believe to be true totally reversed because I went to the actual source looking for the information. And so that's ultimately why I travel is because I just know that I'm going to find the best stuff if I actually go there and talk to people on the ground and also put myself in experiences where I can actually experience what I'm writing about.

31:11That just, I feel like, leads me to write something that's maybe a little more true, at least for me. I also saw you were also, you're sober, right? Like you were, were you working out? Were you an alcoholic? When did you get sober? I got sober almost 10 years ago. Oh, so that's not that long ago. No, not, not super long ago. Yeah, I was 28, 37 now. So yeah, I got sober when I was 28. And I think this actually kind of goes into the whole back to the pigeons in the cages thing is like, at the time I had this job that was, you know, it was kind of like, yeah, whatever. It wasn't that fulfilling to me.

31:52And I've always been someone, you kind of alluded to this, but I've always kind of been someone who likes to go out, learn things, kind of explore the edges. I'm drawn to like intense experiences. And because I just wasn't getting those in my life, I could get them pretty easily through drinking, right? Like on Friday night, I can guarantee that if I were to start drinking, it would be a more unpredictable, probably crazier night than if I had decided just to sit home and watch Netflix, right? Right. So I was able to get that through drinking. Unfortunately, though, that eventually backfires, right?

32:28That works until it doesn't. And when it stops working, it's like really bad. So part of me getting sober was one, having to unpack, okay, well, why did you drink like that in the first place? And then two, once you have that answer, you can start to say, okay, well, where else can you get what you were looking for, like that underlying thing you were looking for? How can you get that in a way that enhances your life and other people's lives rather than messing up your life and other people's lives? Wow. So I think that both of your books, they dovetail nicely. There's a lot of synergies between them.

33:05What's your thing you're going to do next? Is there a volume three of what you're going to do? Yeah. So today I do, I spend a lot of time on my newsletter because I've found that it kind of a lot, you know, books are interesting because you basically sit alone in a room for a year, a year and a half and don't talk to anyone and you're alone with your thoughts and you get no feedback. And then you kind of just release it and go, here you go. Right, right, right. Exactly. Whereas the newsletter, I can talk to people in real time, work on things that maybe don't perfectly fit into the narrative of a book.

33:38So it gives me a lot more bandwidth and real time stuff. But I will, Well, I probably will do a third book, and I think I want to really dive into mindset in the third book. So Comfort Crisis had a lot to do with physical health, but I kind of want to look at how this idea of the comfort crisis is impacting mindset and resilience and stress tolerance and things like that. So that'll probably be the third book. So let's talk about Comfort Crisis for a second, because I loved it. But one more question with scarcity for a second, because I heard another great thing that you were mentioning about how you were working with another psychologist and about some guy about a Lego program or thing.

34:21And yeah, I find like, you know, it's one of these things. What I like about your work, you know, is that when I was reading it, it's like sometimes common sense isn't so common, right? We try to find these complicated reasonings for sometimes the simplest thing, right? You're talking about people are constantly adding and adding. But really, if you really look at it, the things that have the best solutions is when you actually subtract and take away. Yeah, exactly. And it's so true. Yeah, I'm going to tell you the whole story because I think it's an amazing story. Yeah. So it starts with this researcher whose name is Leidy Klotz.

34:58And he's like this top of the world engineering researcher. basically. One of the best in the field. And he's playing Legos with his son. And his son is three years old. The kid's name is Ezra. And they're building this Lego bridge. So they build these two pillars and then they build the span and they connect the two pillars to the span and they realize they have screwed this thing up. So the one pillar is taller than the other. So the span is like Skawampus. It's at an angle, right? So our Mr. PhD Smarty Pants engineer, he's like, like, oh, I got the fix for this. So he turns around, he rifles through the bin of Legos, and then he turns back around with the Legos, and he realizes his son has solved the problem.

35:40So his three-year-old son simply removed Legos from the taller pillar. So he fixed the problem, but he did it in a better way because it was more efficient, it used fewer resources, and so now they have more Legos that they can build this entire Lego city around the bridge, right? And he realizes, oh my God, Like, removing these Legos, it didn't even cross my mind to fix the problem. So what he does is he makes the bridge kind of skawampus again. He starts taking it around the university campus. Anytime he meets with other professors, he pulls out the two pillars in the span, throws some extra Legos on the table, and he goes, hey, fix this bridge.

36:18Every single professor adds Legos to fix the problem. So this makes him realize, okay, maybe there's something here. And long story short, he ends up setting up 12 different experiments where people have to either make an improvement or solve a problem. And in every single experiment, the best, most efficient way to make the improvement or solve the problem is to subtract resources. So you can solve it or make the improvement by adding. You can, but it's always more efficient to subtract. And what he finds is that every single, in every single experiment, people add to fix the problem, to make the improvement.

36:54So this basically tells us that humans are wired to add, even when it doesn't make sense. We just preferentially overlook subtraction. So it's not that like one is any better than the other, but it just tells us that we don't even think of subtraction. And by not thinking about that, we're leaving like half the options off the table. And those options are often more efficient. They're often a better use of time, of energy, of resources. And so kind of the takeaway is if you're trying to improve something, if you are trying to solve a problem, you should probably write down, okay, how would I solve this or improve this if I were to subtract?

37:30Because your brain is automatically going to go add, add, add. Can I throw money at this? Can I do X, Y, Z? Can I buy this thing? But often the answer is just to subtract. You know, I find that just like to be like a metaphor for life, right? That's why I really, like, I really kind of responded or resonated with me, right? Because it's so true. Again, like so many of these other things, like, I feel like the easier life has gotten for us, the more hard, the harder it actually became, right? Like, you know, even, you know, all these like sleeping tools, you know, like the, all the rings and the, all the things, right?

38:06Like I always try all the, I try everything, I have everything. And I eventually like throw them to the wall and like throw them away because all it does is create more angst, more anxiety, worse sleep, worse this, because now you have just yet another thing to be concerned about, another tool to be concerned about, another this. When like, we don't need all that. Like we just have, we're just like, we just are like just amassing stuff, stuff, stuff. Like even all these apps and technologies to make your life easier actually just makes it harder. Totally. Yeah. And a lot of times, I mean, and unfortunately a lot of times they're totally wrong.

38:43Like I did this whole series on the newsletter about accuracy of wearables. and you look at the numbers and you're just like, wow, these things are, these things are not good at their job. Not at all. So how did you figure it out and how wrong was it? Like how inaccurate was it? Yeah. So, uh, you can do, if you look at step counts, step counts are anywhere from 200 % off to some are like within 10%, but the vast majority are within 20 to 30 % off. And they're always, they always overestimate. So if you took, you know, it'll tell you, you took 10 ,000 steps when you only took eight. But I think where it starts to get really wacky is when you get wearables that score something like sleep or give you like a strain count or something like that for your workouts.

39:27Those are I mean, they're basically just making stuff up like it's not it's not good data. How do you prove that? Like, how did you prove it with another app? Well, you can, if you basically look at how they track heart rate through the wrist, like they're making generalizations based on your size, based on wrist-based heart rate tracking for a lot of the workout stuff. And that's been proven to be incorrect a lot of the time because there's just so much noise coming through the wrist. The sleep ones, the algorithms make a ton of assumptions that aren't necessarily true. And the other thing is like, how do you score sleep?

40:03I'd like to know. I mean, I've seen I've had a million sleep experts on here and I've had a million people talk about every single wearable possible. And all I've seen, all I know is that if I wake up feeling rested, I said, well, if I didn't, I didn't. Like, it's pretty basic. Exactly. So like you can't, you know, and if you're wearable tells you, oh, you actually, you know what? You only got a 39 out of 100. Like, what are you going to do? Like, oh, I guess you're right, wearable, even though I feel great. Like, I'm going to feel like shit now. Like, come on. You know, it's it's like the technology just really isn't there.

40:37And frankly, I don't know if it'll ever be there because there's so many individual variations. I mean, like some people can sleep totally fine if they just get six hours a night. Some people they need consistent eight hours. Some people sleep better in absolute darkness while other people's people actually need a little bit of light, a little bit of noise in the background. Like, it's just so individual. And so by trying to like put this all in a single number for everyone, it just it doesn't make any damn sense. Like it's better just to do some self-examination, be a little bit self-reliant, figure out what works for you, experiment, come to, you know, find your own Buddha out in the sleep universe and then, you know, do that thing.

41:16I agree. I mean, I find there's way too many variables to really be accurate. So does that mean you don't wear any of these things then? You're not where you're not tracking anything? I'll track steps. Actually, the most accurate step counter you can buy is like a$20 pedometer off of Amazon. Yeah. You wear on your hip like your grandma probably wears when she when she mom walks. That's about the most accurate you can get. I'm at the point now where I kind of know, did I get enough steps for the day? And that's good. I know if I worked out like, you know, there's there's a lot simpler ways to track this sort of thing that all come down to pen and paper like we were doing before, before we got all these crazy tech devices.

41:54No, I know. Also, you know how I wear this weighted vest? I think you do too. I heard you talk about them too. By the way, this is not like, it's become like super trendy now. Like everyone's like now rocking. But guess what? This has been around for many, many, many years. And now things kind of hit a trend or an uptick. And all of a sudden it's the latest and greatest thing. I mean, I just find it very interesting that like people need to like, that's, I guess this is the issue, right? Like we have to kind of like create, like these environments or these things where people are like tempted or interested in like moving their bodies versus because we've allowed people to become lazy.

42:35Really, that's basically what's happened. Yeah, we've I mean, we've engineered exercise out of our life, really. And I mean, that's that's progress, right? But progress also has a price. Yeah, no, we're paying it with our health for sure. What are your habits? Like, what do you do daily? I mean, you've seen it all, you do it all, you talk about it. Tell me the things that work best for you that you've seen. The pedometer on your hip, like your granny, yeah? Yeah, that's a good way to track your steps. I mean, I found kind of going back to that subtraction idea that less is probably more when it comes to what you're trying to accomplish.

43:12So, I mean, for me personally, it's like I have to get honest with myself and be like, what, you know, what is your goal? And my goal is to write words that help people live better. And that comes through writing. So first thing in the morning, I usually wake up pretty early. I don't use an alarm or anything, but I'm usually up really early and I just start writing. I write for, you know, maybe three or four hours a day. Then I usually take my dogs for a walk. I will. Well, then you write for four hours a day, just like on something or like do you have like a topic or like you just start writing and it just flows that easy?

43:48Yeah, it's either it's either for the newsletter or it's books or some other project I'm working on. So I always write every day. I mean, that's my job, right? People are like, oh, you write four hours a day. It's like, yeah, but if I was like, you know, at an auto factory, I'd be making auto parts for eight hours a day. So it's true. But normally you have to be writing about something like, for example, like so for your for your newsletter, right? Like, where do you find the topics? Do you like look at for certain things? Do you like just how does it with the process? Yeah, it's ideas come through a lot of different ways.

44:20A lot of it is just kind of noticing what's happening in the field and writing about current things happening. A lot of times it's readers will have questions, you know, or I'll write one piece and people will be like, hey, well, what about this thing? It's like, all right, well, that sounds like a topic for the next one. Right. Right. And luckily, I mean, and anytime I have an idea, I always write it down because ideas are like one of those things that they last for five seconds. And if you don't write them down, they're gone. Totally true. So I always have an idea log. So yeah, I write and I usually walk my dogs.

44:53I'll toss on a ruck when I walk the dogs. And then once I'm done writing, I kind of reserve the rest of the afternoon for the stuff that's less intellectual lift, you know, responding to emails, doing that sort of stuff. I'll usually work out at some point before dinner. And then usually at night, I'll like read, watch some series with my wife, whatever. We have this, we have this, I don't like to talk about this publicly, but I'm going to. We love the, we love the Real Housewives series. I don't blame you for not wanting to talk about it. Which one do you watch? Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

45:30That is my jam. So I grew up, I grew up north of Salt Lake City, and so I've never watched this crap. And then they did a Salt Lake City one. I'm like, I'll watch the first episode. And I just got straight up hooked on that. Oh, my God. Yeah. Michael, I'm so surprised to hear you say that. You don't seem like the type. Yeah. I didn't think I was the type either, but here I am. So it's basically like your, like, it's just like your, like, guilty pleasure, basically. Yeah, that's my mental sludge. I do think it's probably good for people if you do a lot of intellectual heady work to offset that with something where you just don't have to think.

46:10So a lot of people will do like intellectual work all day and then they'll be like, you know what? I'm going to relax with like a really, really dense book. It's like that can sometimes backfire, you know, at least for me. I would try to read this like heavy stuff at night and I realized, oh, I should probably put that in like the afternoon. Well, you know, I totally agree. You know, it's interesting. even when you were talking we're talking about sleep a little bit is that like they have all these rules and regulations of like how to fall asleep how how to have the best sleep no blue light no screens no this but truthfully like i like to i love like comedy i love stand-up comedy like i fall asleep to stand-up comedy and it makes me like it puts me in a happy good mood and i go to bed like that so like right so like all these rules and regulations and what you should do what you shouldn't do like i believe like there's so many variables everyone's so different like what works for you michaels i mean it's not gonna work for me like you like real housewives i like you know i like watching chris you know whatever i like i like watching whoever like chris rock whoever you know what i mean so yeah the thing with sleep too it's like people say oh you need to sleep in absolute darkness it needs to be absolutely silent i can tell you that our species would have died off if that's what we required to sleep.

47:24Like people used to just sleep around the fire, which by the way is bright. There would be people snoring all the time. There's like the wilderness noises the whole time. Like if we couldn't sleep when it was kind of bright and kind of loud, like we just wouldn't be here. Like people are fine. You'll figure it out. You know, people are fine. So this is the thing, right? So this is why I really love this comfort crisis, whatever. And also the scarcity brain. Like I find like we've made our cult, we've made our society so soft where we have like to sleep now you're going to do it in this position and in this darkness and at the temperature of 65 or else you're not like we're making people so fragile like actually doing hard things or putting yourself like in a situation where you're going to be uncomfortable actually like build a lot of staff like mental stamina and like doesn't make you such like like such a snowflake yeah totally i like the word fragile you used i mean generally And generally, I think the more you need in order to do something, the more fragile you are.

48:24You know, it's like you should be able to just do a thing without many resources. Like, that's exactly what you're after. And a lot of this stuff borders on superstition. Like, to me, you know, you see all these crazy morning routines people have. They're like, I got to go through 11 steps before I can sit down and work. It's like, that to me is no different than a baseball player who stands on the mound and has to, like, tug their cap three times and then do some weird thing before they'll throw a pitch. Like, it's no different. You know what? It's being able to be malleable and flexible. In the world of wellness and health, in the guise of wellness and health, we've lost the ability to be healthy and well.

49:05It's 100 % what's happened. This podcast is called Habits and Hustle. You can imagine, I have everybody on here talking about their habits and their hustle. Some of these morning routines, by the way, also night routines, are so laborious. I don't even know how you have a job or a family because you're doing your morning routine until like three o 'clock in the afternoon. yeah like i think it's it's also breeding a lot of like narcissism right like i have to do i got to put myself in these situations to be i gotta i gotta do my my my my sauna my cold plunge i gotta meditate i gotta journal i gotta do my gratitude i gotta eat a piece of protein then i gotta go work out and then i gotta rock and i'm like do you work do you have like any responsibilities or you're just routining all day totally yeah right i think it's like i think people need to I think it's worth analyzing what actually is helping being kind of ruthless in that examination.

50:00So, you know, the person with the 11 step routine, if they got ruthless, they might find, you know, maybe like two or three of these things are good. But there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that's actually just adding to this burden of like things I have to do. And if I don't if I don't do them, I feel guilty. I feel like I've lost the magic potion that's going to allow me to do X, Y, Z. So that's that's basically how I view it anyway. I agree with you. That's why I was like actually asking you, like, I think there's a book there right there. But don't I mean, I think there's a book and how like we've we've we've made ourselves like mentally unwell by all the wealth things where all the mentally of all the wellness things we're doing, you know?

50:36Yeah, totally. So don't steal my idea. No, I'm joking. I think you should write it. But I know you're not feeling well. I know you have COVID, poor boy. And you still came on this podcast. And I really appreciate it. And maybe when you're in LA next, we can do it in person. I don't love doing these things online like this. It's kind of wonky for me. But yeah, we'll do it. That'd be awesome. I would love to meet you in person. We can like dive deeper in both. But thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it. I hope you feel better. Yeah, well, I'll be fine. And this is like a tax that my job takes with all the travel.

51:10So it is what it is. My gosh. Well, God bless you. I love what you're doing. I think you've nailed it. And so I can't wait to see more of your stuff. And I'm also going to subscribe to your newsletter, which I meant to do. Awesome. Well, I'll send you that Grayscale one. Don't forget. Do you have my email? No. Okay. I will get it off this. I will get it. And I definitely want you to send that to me. Yeah, will do. Sounds good. Thank you, Michael. I hope you feel better. I'll talk to you later. Yeah, thanks so much. It's great to be here. Yeah, thank you. Bye. Bye.