Episode 407: Michael Chernow: How to Build a Lasting Marriage, Break Free from Addiction + Why Morning Routines Matter

26:12And confidence over time develops courage. It's the three C's. Anything great requires courage. And typically greatness comes out of overcoming fear, right? Like people write about people that, you know, win wars, shit like that. Right. And so I think where it starts is like the commitment component of life. Start that again. So commitment. Commitment breeds confidence. Okay. Give me an example. What do you mean by commitment? I always think that the three C's for me are a little bit different. I think competence, you know, breeds confidence. Yeah. But you can't be competent without experience.

26:54So like commitment is what - Like commitment's more like your commitment to whatever that thing is? Yeah, but that develops competence in that thing, right? So like as an example, when I was coming out of the dark place in addiction, right? And I had zero self-confidence, zero ability to do anything but run for the fucking hills because that's what I did. That was my life for 11 years. I just was like, dial it in, I'm done. Feel good, I want to feel better. Feel bad, I want to feel better. Feel anything, I don't want to feel. And so I got really good at being a Houdini and just like poof, like disappearing in plain sight, you know?

27:37And so when I was coming out of that, I got introduced to a couple of guys who like just showed up and just like winged me and told me about and introduced me to fitness for the first time in my life, really. And they said, there's two things, there's three things you gotta do and we can't like force you to do it or make you do it. But like, if you can do these three things, the chances of your life growing in a really positive way are strong. And if you can't do these three things, we can't like guarantee you anything, right? But they basically said, if you can commit to moving your body fitness wise, eating well and connecting with the sober community, like nothing else should matter in your life.

28:24Those are the three things you got to commit to those three things. So like, we're going to write this plan for you. It's going to be, and I'll, I mean, I can tell you the plan, but the plan was basically, these guys were like, we want you to wake up as early as you can in the morning. As soon as you wake up, you roll out of bed and right onto the floor and ask God for help and get on your knees and ask God for help. Take a piss, wash your face, brush your teeth, put on a pair of sneakers, go outside and take a walk. That could be a five minute walk. That could be a five mile walk. That could be a run.

28:55That could be a jog. Whatever you want to do, but move your body. When you're done with that, come back in and eat a bowl of oatmeal. That's kind of where my business now has come from. Start with something nutritious, satiating, healthy, easy, accessible. Oatmeal costs nothing. You can add whatever you want to it. When you're done with that, go to a sober community meeting. Fucking tell them who you are and why you're there. Right when you're done with that, meet us down at the gym. And these guys told me this gym to go to It was a Muay Thai gym. And they said, we're going to teach you how to be a man, really, is what they said.

29:25But they were just like, we're going to come and we're going to train with you here and we're going to kick your fucking ass. And they taught me about so much there, you know, mentally, physically, spiritually. And then they said, right after you get out of here, you're going to go to the deli on the corner. You're going to get chicken and broccoli. You're going to go and take a nap. You're going to go to work. You're going to have chicken and broccoli again for dinner. And you're going to go to bed as early as you can. And right before you go to bed, you're going to drop on your knees. You're going to say, thank you.

29:49And go to sleep and then rinse and repeat. That was it. That's what those guys taught me. So I learned there that if I can just commit to that, like the commitment to the fitness and the nutrition piece developed confidence for me. And then once I started doing that consistently, like that is what changed my life. That is 100%. I am absolutely confident. I have complete confidence in the fact that fitness and nutrition changed the course, the trajectory of my life, period. and if there's anybody out there who's thinking about like, oh, you know, I just need that thing. I need that relationship.

30:26I need that job. I need that fucking, that raise. I need this, like I'm feeling lost. I'm feeling directionless. Like all I'll tell you is this. If you're not moving your body and you're not eating well in a healthy way, you should immediately start doing that because that is going to give you far more confidence, far more strength, far more ability to feel like you're in control of your life than the car, the bump and raise, the fucking relationship, the whatever. All that shit will come once you're a confident, courageous person. But you gotta get right with the commitment, you know? That's great.

31:06And I'm gonna clip that because that was a really beautiful soliloquy. And I think it's, this is why you and I click because I wholeheartedly believe that to be 100 % true. You can transform your life if you take control of your life by actually through fitness, through nutrition, because becoming physically strong makes you mentally tough and makes you mentally strong. And that becomes a vicious cycle. And the more mentally strong you are, that breeds confidence, right? Because you feel and know that you have the capacity and you're capable of doing hard things, which of course then helps you with another building block of confidence.

31:46And all these other little pieces fall into place because you know yourself that you're competent, capable, confident, do hard things. And I think that did change the trajectory of my life 100 ,000%. And so people are focusing on the wrong things. They're focusing on like that guy calling them or that girl not calling them back. And like all this ancillary superficial bullshit that means nothing in terms of like actual happiness or satisfaction or fulfillment. Because you can't get there unless you have the first part taken care of. Yeah. And in my opinion, it just really does start with one thing.

32:23And that's why when you say commitment, I understand now. Because you made the commitment to go through that fitness regimen, that nutrition regimen. You were so committed that that's what drove you to the next C. Yeah. And by the way, it sucks for everyone in the beginning. Everybody. Every person that walks into that. Situation. Yeah. It sucks for everyone. So if you're sitting there thinking, oh man, like, yeah, like, like it's easy for them to say. It wasn't easy when I started, you know, everybody. It wasn't easy for anybody when they start. Right. The next question people are going to say though is, well, how long?

33:04How long does it take where it becomes then such a habitual thing where if you don't do it, it feels weird. Yeah, so my sort of answer to that is like, if you thought about everything in your life as how long, you'd never do anything. So I kind of see it, and obviously this was taught to me along my sobriety journey, but I really do look at life as a day because that's all I got. Yesterday's long gone. It's long gone. There's not a human in history that's ever been able to go back and change what happened yesterday. and tomorrow I mean I say this kind of like as a cliche but it's true right like tomorrow is not guaranteed so you the whole like I'll start Monday yeah I'll start tomorrow is just a cop-out and it's and it's a fearful response to like the the situation at hand so I kind of look at my life as a day like I've got today to show up and man like 85 percent of the time I win and winning doesn't mean winning the fucking competition, winning the race means I just showed up and did what I had to, I gave what I had to give, to give.

34:16And 15 % of the time, I'm like, fuck it. I'm going to like totally just do whatever the fuck I want to do today. And I'm cool with that. And so I kind of live my life that way. But I do believe that like, if you think about everything is like, oh, how long? Like if I thought about business, right? I've been in business as an entrepreneur since I'm 28 and I'm 43. So whatever that is, you know, 15 years, I've been opening businesses. And at 28, if I was like, man, you know, even in 15 years later, I'm not going to be where I see myself being like, it's going to take 25 years. If I, you know, if that was like my plan at 28 to be like, yeah, 25 years, you know, I'll be all right.

34:58Like no one's, no, no one's putting in, no one's, no one's investing in a 25 year long like plan like opportunity everybody's like no i want i want that shit now yeah totally true i love when people give analogies like that because it's it puts things in such a great perspective right and i think that is so true and then how did you evolve your stuff because okay so you were obviously you've been sober for a bit i can't even believe that you were ever a drug addict it's like so insane to me knowing how you live your life now. It's like beyond. How were you able to be a drug addict and become such an expert?

35:35Let me just give people a little bit, because I teased Michael a bunch, because he's like a musician, like a Juilliard trained. Not anymore. Okay, whatever. He's a Juilliard trained musician. LaGuardia High School, different, not Juilliard. Whatever. Close enough. Fame. We always say he went to like the school, he went to like fame. I went to the fame high school. The fame high school. And what was the instrument that you played? I played the tuba and the bass. The tuba the base. He's also a chef, like a real one. He was a restaurateur. He owned a bunch of restaurants in New York City. He owned a place called the Meatball Shop.

36:05Wrote actually a cookbook called the Meatball Shop. The Meatball Shop cookbook. Yeah, Meatball Shop. Okay. Then opened up Seymour's. And opened up Seymour's, which I went to with you. It was very good. What else? So you're a chef, a musician, entrepreneur, a fitness phenom. What else? Well, now I have Creatures of Habit, which is like my main shtick. Well, but you're an entrepreneur. So basically now he - Podcast host. Had a TV show for a few years. Yeah, but you don't need talent for being a podcast host. Have you seen the kind of people that are out there, you know, like me? No, right. You also had a TV show, a travel food show.

36:41You're just good at a lot of things. Let's just put it that way. Thanks. You're welcome. This is your like playing humble. Thanks. No, I mean, thank you. I used to, you know, it's funny. I think we had this conversation. And for years, people would like, you know, I do something and people or someone around me would say, oh, man, you know, this is a great thing or congratulations. And I'd be like, oh, stop it. Now I just say thanks. Like, I take it. You take it. I'm like, I fucking good. I take it. Be good because you earned it. Yeah. Right? You earned it.

37:20I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor, Timeline Nutrition. We all know that being our most successful self requires us to be our healthiest selves. And this is why taking control of aging is one of my main priorities. One thing I'm focusing on to reverse aging is supplementing with MitoPure from Timeline Nutrition. MitoPure is the first product to offer a precise dose of urolithin A to support mitophagy and increase cellular energy. So why is mitophagy important? Well, our mitochondria becomes damaged and dysfunctional over time, leading to the production of harmful byproducts and the disruption of normal cellular function.

38:01Mitophagy helps in maintaining healthy mitochondria by eliminating these damaged ones, allowing for the proper functioning of cells and overall cellular health. One way to think of MitoPure is that they are like little Pac-Man in your cells chomping up the damaged mitochondria that makes you feel old and tired, and then recycling it into new healthy ones. Taking two soft gels a day for two months, you can actually see significant improvements in your cellular energy, muscle strength, and endurance. And after four months of taking MitoPure, you'll feel yourself getting stronger, recovering faster after a workout, and experience way less inflammation.

38:40And it's all part of healthier aging routine. So Timeline is offering a 10 % off your first order of MitoPure. Go to timeline.com slash Cohen to try it out now. That's timeline, T-I-M-E-L-I-N-E dot com slash Cohen.

39:07so how are you able to even be a drug how how did you have like the time to be a drug addict and be so like and so talented and so well it all exceptional at the same time it wasn't at the same time so tell me so i mean i started using drugs when i was 12 right and i just stopped when i was 23. So from 12 to 23, I worked in restaurants the whole time. I learned a lot. When you were 12, you started it. Yeah. Yeah. So I started super young. What was the drug that you got addicted to at 12? Well, the summer between sixth and seventh grade was the first time I smoked pot. And before that, I was already sort of like started, I was smoking cigarettes with friends.

39:54I mean, grew up in New York City. I grew up in a really fucking hard home. My family situation was not awesome. And so for me, I have been an escape artist basically for those years. I was just like, when I was a little kid, I never slept at home. I always tried to sleep over at my friends' houses. Why? Just to be away from the crazy? Yeah. I mean, look, my mom loved me and I can feel that my mom loved me. But my mom was also abused by my father. And my father was not only like mentally ill, but he was severely physically sick. I mean, he was a juvenile diabetic. He had heart disease. He had had multiple heart attacks.

40:38And he was just a miserable person and totally took his pain out on his family. And so for me, like there was a lot of dysfunction, a lot, a lot, a lot. And, you know, I'm now reading this great book called The Body Keeps the Score. And it's just so it's hard for me to read the book because I'm like, oh, my God, like that explains this and that explains that. Like I'm learning a lot about myself through reading this book. But stuff that I knew, but now now having it broken down sort of like scientifically, I'm like, Jesus, it is real. But so at 12 years old was like finally the time where I, you know, I had already felt like I was kind of, I was a bad kid.

41:20I turned into this kind of rebellious bad kid. And at that point, my father and I, I was no longer just like, if he would get physical with me, I used to run away or cower or kind of let him do his thing because he was my father and I was scared. At 12 years old is when I started just fighting back. And so now I kind of became a man in my house where if my father would try to swing on me or if I knew he was going to, I would hit him first or something like that. And yeah, it was just, you know, I don't regret it, honestly. I mean, I probably wouldn't change it because I do believe that it has kind of sculpted the way I see life today.

42:00But it did lead me for sure to want to escape and that escape was awesome in drugs. And I think that they've saved my life for probably the first five or six years because chances are the way I was feeling about myself and I had already like attempted suicide in a cry for help at that age, I definitely didn't want to die. But like, it's kind of scary for me to think about me like doing that. And if I hadn't found drugs and alcohol at that young age, there's a chance that I probably would have killed myself because I was like really unhappy. But so I found him and I fell in love with him. I fell in love with him and I moved out of my parents' house at 15.

42:42And I just kind of like was off to the races. And I always had a job in a restaurant or a nightclub. I stayed in high school. I graduated high school, but I also sold a lot of drugs. And quite frankly, like I learned a lot about entrepreneurship through that business, you know, as a kid. and what did you learn? What was the number one relationship development? I was, I was not a scary guy. I was not a tough guy until the end, really when I got started to get really angry. But I was the guy that like everybody was like down to do business with because from a young age, I knew that I had to have people, I had to, I had to intentionally make people like me.

43:24And that was from a kid, like if I wanted to sleep over at my friend's houses, I knew that their parents needed to like me. And so I would intentionally go out of my way for that to happen. And so I parlayed that into just relationship development in my life. And I learned how to like read a room, read a person, kind of chameleon myself for a situation. You put me at the White House, I'm good. You put me in Watts, I'm good. Like I will figure out and make friends wherever I go. And I think that's what made me a great hospitality guy. But now ultimately I know, I don't think, like I used to be when I first started, when I launched the meatball shop, I was so insecure about my ability to navigate financial statements and P &Ls.

44:10I fucking hated it. I had zero interest in it. I was not good at it. Like my brain does not think that way. And I was so insecure about it because I thought that that was like so important to know and come to find out like I can hire anybody to do that. Like I can't hire me. I can't like put a job description out there that says, hey, I'm looking for a great relationship development person. I'm looking for a great emotionally intelligent person to join my team. Who can read a room exceptionally well and pick up on nuance and cues, body language. You can't hire for that. And also like, hey, I'm looking for like a really like, I'm looking for a visionary.

44:47Is there anybody out there? How do you interview for that? So true. I always say to you, you're so likable. And you know, this makes perfect sense because you trained and you even like unintentionally became, like trained yourself to be very likable out of survival. Yeah. I mean, that was like, I mean, I didn't know that that's what I was doing then. But now when I look back on it, I really, you know, I really honed my craft from those days. and, you know, it got me into a lot of trouble as a young kid with a pedophile, right? Like, I was like trying to figure out, like, I wanted a father to love me.

45:25I really, really wanted that love from a man, you know, as a young kid. Can you talk about that? Because I don't, people. Yeah, sure. I mean, I, you know, I was as, when I was probably third, fourth, third and fourth grade, second, third and fourth grade, maybe my parents, my father was not involved in my life at So he would just like never participated in anything, you know, and he was on permanent disability. So like, but he just like locked himself in a corner of our like apartment. He was a hoarder. We had a little tiny apartment. And so he just like, I like, it was like very rare. I saw or communicated with him outside of fighting.

46:02And my mom was a, was full-time secretary. So they put me in afterschool programs because that's what you do. Right. And so I was in this afterschool program. I was in the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, the sports teams as a kid. I was always sort of like a natural athlete. And so I kind of excelled at sports as a young kid. But the coach of the sports program, and he was also the Cub Scout leader, was a pedophile. I loved him. I like loved him. I did. He was like my dad. He was like he treated me like a son. He took me fishing. There was like a crew of kids that he groomed. But he would take us fishing.

46:41He'd take us to like arcade, you know, all these things. And then, you know, we would sleep at his house. And luckily, I mean, knock on wood, like I don't recall rape or anything like that. But there was a lot of touching and a lot of like just not great shit in the shower, putting shampoo all over all of us, like touching our bodies. So it sucked. If there's one thing that I would love to have had been different is that. But, you know, it's another experience that I had. Right. It's another experience that I had that I can now talk about and make someone else who's gone through that feel comfortable or a little bit more comfortable with their situation because I'm totally at terms with it.

47:24You know, like. So he never he touched you in the shower. Mm hmm. But but never he never raped you or did. I don't I you know, I like I don't recall that. I don't recall that. Do you think you might be repressing it? I just don't know about it? I've thought about that, you know, maybe. I mean, the guy did get arrested and put in jail for child pornography and pedophilia. So I would imagine that he did that with people. But I just, maybe I did disassociate. I don't know. All I could say is right now from memory, it was like in the shower, he would wash us and rub us down. And then we would sleep over at his house in his bed.

48:02I mean, I remember being at his house alone in his bed. he would ask me to like rub his thighs and like do shit like that that's obviously you don't do with a fucking nine-year-old kid right you know like i look at my nine-year-old son you know i mean i i would murder somebody i would i would legitimately and i'm a very sane dude but i'm also a dude you don't want to fuck with and i would kill someone if they did that to my son kill him murder and and maybe i get in trouble for saying that but that's how i feel about it because it did fuck me up you know it there's totally there's things that that that are still that i still kind of like i don't walk around feeling you know like ashamed of what happened but when i when i when i realized that that had happened to me at like 16 oh my god i mean like incredible shame like did i want that?

48:55Am I gay? Did that, did I like that? Oh my God. Like, how, was that my fault? Like, did I ask for that? Like, I just didn't know. I was totally, you know, scary. Like, you know, scary to go through that as a teenager, but you know. How did you process it? And how come after what happened, did you just not think about it for four or five years or? I just didn't really associate it with anything that was wrong you know I was I was young I mean this guy was like a father figure you know like as if anything like I loved the guy and when I when I you know when he stopped wanting to do those things with me not not like the molestation part but like take me fishing or you know take us to the arcade like he was on to the younger kids because we were getting a little probably to the age where maybe we would start to realize things.

49:46And I was like, why did he stop wanting to hang out with me? That was the only thing that I was like, what happened to Dan? Like, I'd be like, you know, and you know, it's so interesting. Sean T, do you know who Sean T is? So he came on this podcast. He's a friend of mine as well. And we did a whole podcast on this because he was talking really deeply about his how he was molested, right? Badly. I mean, not like none of them is, all of it's bad, but like for many, many years to the worst degree. And he remembers, and he talked about the fact that like, when he was molested and the guy stopped molesting, the pedophile stopped molesting him, he was so upset and he cried and he was so sad because he felt like, he like felt like he kind of like became he was in love with him because he felt like he's been now abandoned by him like how can this guy not want me anymore why does he not want to hang out with me why does he not want to do this with me like it like the child and now what you just said to me just gave me goosebumps because like the kid internalizes it right like you feel like you've been replaced or you're not good enough like that's the mind fuck that happens because you become you feel like they don't like you anymore.

51:03Totally. But that is the cyclical thing that they do as these pedophiles, right? Like they know the age where the awareness becomes like risky. So horrible, horrible. But one in four men are molested. One in four. And, you know, I am now part of a class action lawsuit against the Boy Scouts of America because I was at home with my wife like in the pandemic like three years ago, and we're watching something on TV, and a commercial shows up about the Boy Scouts of America and molestation. And it is rampant, rampant, rampant. And there's the class action lawsuit, the Boy Scouts are filing bankruptcy.

51:45And if you were molested by the Boy Scouts of America, it is your duty to be a part of this class action. And I looked over at Donna and I was like, she's like, you have to call right now. And so I called and I spoke to the lawyer and found out 82 ,000 men at that time, at that time, this is three years ago, 82 ,000 men in the United States of America have come forward. That's probably a small percentage of the amount of men that have been molested in the Boy Scouts of America or Cub Scouts, but that's a real fucking number, right? Like you got to think about that. Just in the Boy Scouts? Just in the Boy Scouts.

52:18Just in the Boy Scouts. At that time, three years ago, 82 ,000 men come forward to hopefully put these motherfuckers out of business. So this, this is stopped because when you think about it, it's a hotbed, it's a hotbed for pedophiles because it's all volunteer. Right. And you know, it's so it's all volunteer. Go on. It's all young boys. It's all volunteer. It's all young boys. It's all outside and kids are scared. It's like, like in the woods camping, Kids are scared. So the Cub Scout, Boy Scout leader can be like, oh, come sleep in my tent. You're scared. Oh, come sleep in my tent. Come sleep in my sleeping bag.

52:58It's cold. That's what happens. That's what happened to me too. Also, and I don't know if this is a fact or not. I have no idea. You may know. Who joins the Boy Scouts of America? Is it usually kids who have broken homes, who are looking for like some type of community? Is it everybody across the board? I don't know much about. So I don't, I don't, I can't make a generalization that way. I would say that it's actually like, you know, it's like, it's been around for like over a hundred years. It's like the American way. You know what I mean? Like it's supposed to be this wonderful thing where kids come together, they learn about survival and wilderness.

53:38They camp out, they cook their own food. They learn about boating and kayaks and tying knots and, you know, building shelters and doing really fun, cool things. but it's been completely exploited by the pedophiles of the world, right? And so, you know, a lot of the kids that would go into a group like that that have a broken home, it's very easy for the pedophiles to pick them out and groom them because they're looking for leadership. Fatherhood is leadership, right? Like being a father to a son or a daughter at the end of the day is love and leadership. and like if there's someone there and they're getting the exact opposite, that child is going to want the love and leadership like in a very intense way, you know?

54:30And that was me. Like I wanted so badly to get like my dad to like give me a big hug and tell me I'm awesome and like wanna go throw a football with me. Never happened, you know? And so I found it in other dudes like at that young age and some of them were great and mentors in like the most positive way. And this one guy was, took total advantage of it, you know? So I don't even know how we got onto that topic, but you know, like that, I share about it freely because I know there are so many men out there that it's happened to that are just bottling it up and not, like I shared about it, I don't know, maybe it was on Rich Roll's podcast.

55:14and I had like two friends that listened to the podcast from my childhood that called me up and said, I've never told this to anyone, but Dan also molested me. Wow. Yeah. And like, you know, changed my friend's life. Like for him to just be able to share that. He never told anyone ever. Never said it to a word. He's been holding that in for fucking 40, whatever it's been, 35 years. 35 years, never shared it, never said it to anybody. Did he share how it's affected him? Yeah. What did he say? What he said also has affected me in a similar, like I've had a similar response. Like if, you know, not anymore because I'm married.

55:55I'm married a long time. But before I got married, if there was ever a female that I was engaging in sexual conduct with that was way too aggressive or like super aggressive, I would like back off. Like I needed to be the one to initiate that because if I felt like that person was like coming in hard, it wasn't comfortable for me. Like I would like – I didn't like that. And he shared that. And I never put those two things together that like if there was a girl who was just like super into it and like ready to go and like on me, I didn't like it. I was like it was kind of like a – Turn off. Made me feel uncomfortable.

56:32Yeah. And he shared that and I was like, oh my gosh, I remember feeling the same way. Is he married? No, no. But, you know, he's been in long-term relationships. You know, that, there's definitely what I think molestation for young children does is create a massive gap in the ability and the understanding of intimacy. because your first introduction to like a romantic, intimate situation was so fucking ass backwards. It's just not supposed to happen like that, right? And so it distorts and like changes, kind of like the neural pathways and the feelings and the emotions that you're supposed to develop with in those situations when some man is touching you in like a totally inappropriate way, you know?

57:29But then interestingly enough, look at you, right? Even with those situations, you went on to have a very healthy, stable relationship, right? Same with Sean T, right? He's in a very healthy, stable relationship. I mean, there's always anomalies, right? But it seems to me that it's for the people who've processed it. Like your friend never processed anything. Yeah, maybe, you know, but I also think that, you know, the amount of work someone is willing to do on themselves is always going to overshadow the amount of trauma they've experienced. And so if you're not willing to do the work, the trauma is going to just fucking hang that cloud over you all the time.

58:13The amount of commitment you're willing to put into doing the work, looking at life and trying to figure out some things. if that outweighs like the effects that the trauma has on you not that it's going to go away not that it doesn't exist not that it's you know but like the amount of work that I have done through the 12 steps and therapy and just like like humility in my life I think has overshadowed and and beaten back the trauma shit that's such a good point how have you then like how do you parent? Like how do you show up for your kids as a leadership? Like you said, fatherhood is like being a leader.

58:56So what do you do as a parent with your own children to show leadership? So it's a great question. And this is an area that I like because of my role as sort of, I mean, very comfortable saying this, but it might be controversial for others. Like my role is the provider. I am the provider at the family right now, right? And because of that, I have to travel. I have to, you know, there are times where like I'm sitting at the dinner table and I'm still working, you know, where I'm not 100 % there. So this one area is something that I have to be hyper aware of. And I am, but I don't always succeed.

59:40That said, consistency is, and commitment to the consistency, in my opinion, is still going to win over like not having structured routine. So every night that I'm at home, whether I'm fucking there mentally or not, six o 'clock, we have dinner. I'm putting the kids down every other night. It just is what it is. On the weekends, I do not work. I am full family all the time. I do my best to spend some alone time with each of my sons. And typically that looks like with Dakota, it's either working out with him in the gym or it's going fishing. And with Finley, it is whatever really he wants to do.

1:00:24Dakota is a little bit more like, I know he's younger and I know what he likes. So like with Finn, I'm just like, Hey dude, what do you want to do? You know? But he's a, he's a very creative kid. And he's also blessed with like he's just he's kind of similar to me when i was a kid like i was like kind of blessed with some athletic genes that it was just like natural like the kid picks up a baseball bat boom he just knows how to swing it fucking throws a football he just knows how to throw it yeah his body like fast and he's just he's like if you looked at him like the dude is just he's got it He's lucky.

1:01:04He's really lucky because of just like who he is. But that said, he prefers doing creative shit. So for him, it might be, hey, dad, let's like do like a really cool drawing or a cool painting or let's go out and like, you know, build something outside, build some fun, cool thing, you know. But the majority of the time on the weekends, it's like the family doing shit together. And and then at night when I put the kids down, you know, we have something that I've been doing with them since they're born. And it's called the 13 things. I don't know if I've ever shared this. Have I shared this with you?

1:01:38I love it. So every night that I put them down, I have a routine with them. Surprise, surprise. Yeah. Shocking. Creatures of habit. Habits and hustle. Why we're friends, I don't know. But I do think like having a routine, you know, with the kids, with my sons is like, is super important for them. And I think they crave it and they love it. What is it? Tell us. So, you know, whatever. We go upstairs. Typically, we've pushed their bedtime back a little bit now. So now it's at 7.30. We go upstairs. They brush their teeth. 7.30? Yeah. How old are the kids? Nine and what? Nine and six. What, is that early for you?

1:02:16Yeah. Yeah, but, you know, that's what we do. Like, they get 10 hours of sleep a night. That's great. I'll send my kids to you. Okay, go ahead. So we go upstairs, brush the teeth, go into the bedroom, and then we typically read, we're into chapter books now. So we're reading some book. And then after we read, they go up into their beds and I say, hey guys, you know, you can be anything you want to be when you grow up as long as you do it for yourself and nobody else. And I say, what's it going to take? And they say, courage. And I say, what is courage? And they say, being scared and doing it anyway.

1:02:50And then I say, all right, give me the 13. And one of them will do it or the other one will do it or sometimes they do it kind of back to back. but we've been building this 13 things. And in my mind, these are values that are small, that are really big, that I think have helped shape my life, that actually a lot of them I learned from my father. So like my father, even though it was like a really tough relationship, he did give me these values that I do believe are integral to my like success. And it has a lot to do with chivalry. my father was like insane about chivalry. Like that was like something that his father was very passionate about.

1:03:35So, so anyway, so we, so the 13 things are always protect your brother. Ladies always go first, squeeze in eyes, which means when you give someone a handshake, you squeeze their hand and you make eye contact. So always protect your brother. Ladies always go first, squeeze in eyes, remember people's names. Big one for me. Always trying to remember people's names. When you go to the bathroom, lift up the toilet seat. And when you're done, put the toilet seat down and wash your hands. Look to the left before you cross the road. Look to the right before you cross the road. And that's like it like that for me is like, yes, they're young.

1:04:04Like I want them to do that. But that's just like an analogy for life. Like if you're not aware, you might get hit. So look to the left and road, look to the left and road. Always be kind to mommy when daddy's away. Kindness always wins. Always have courage. Whenever you leave a camp counselor, a teacher, or mom or dad, tell them you're stepping away and I love you. And so those are the 13 things that we say every night. And they really don't know exactly what all of those things mean yet. But you better believe that those kids like pick up the toilet seat before they pee. They put the toilet seat down when they're done.

1:04:44They're always kind to mommy when daddy's away. We make sure that They protect each other. They are not 100 % on the ladies always go first thing yet, but they'll get there because that's a big one for me. Anyway, it's something that we do. And then right after they do that, I say, boys, I love you more than anything in the world. And they go to bed. And these guys are real mama's boys. I think I was too. They love their mom dearly. And they love me too. I know that for sure. But I know that they feel, they know I got their back no matter what. And that makes me feel good. And when they get a little older, there's going to be more, I think.

1:05:33Like the relationships are going to develop more. But yeah, I think leadership is consistency with them, you know? Like I think also, and it's hard, but like letting them on, you know, you can't always want your kids to like you, you know? And I think that's a tough one too. Like for a lot of parents, new parents, you know, we're like, it's hard to just like threatening kids is the worst thing you can do. If you do that again, we're leaving Like, we don't do that What do you do instead? Leave You know, like If they're doing something that they know they shouldn't be doing The last thing I want to do is like Threaten my kids and be like the boy that cried wolf With my children, right?

1:06:20Like, don't threaten Oh, you know, if you do that again, no dessert It's like, you just lost it, dude No dessert, sorry Tomorrow you can have dessert, today, no Come on, what do you mean? it oh this is what it is man you gotta learn you know it's just what it is so like you can also like fall into the trap of like all right we don't do that because you don't care if the kids you're not trying to make your kids be your best friend and like you at that moment you're trying to teach them a more important valuable lesson for life i am trying i am i am the father my wife as the mother. By the way, like, I hope to God that we're best friends with my sons, but you're nine.

1:07:03I'm your dad. I'm trying to teach you something. I don't really care in this situation if you think I'm the best in the world. I want you to like understand that life is tough at times and you have to take responsibility for your actions. And so if you're constantly trying to make them feel good, they're going to get away with everything. And then they're going to grow up all fucked up, you know? I totally agree with you 100%. It's very, very hard though, right? Because everyone wants to, parents want to fix things. They want to soothe you, but you're not, you're developing soft children when you do that.

1:07:41Well, my, you know, so this is one area where my wife and I just don't see eye to eye. And it's been an, it is a thing between us. And so there are some things in our marriage where like, I will, we'll just agree to disagree. But like, if my sons start crying for the, like, I got no problem with you crying, by all means, something bad happens, you're sad about something, cry, I'm gonna hug you, I'm gonna love you. But you cry because you don't get what you want. I'm not consoling you. I'm sorry. Like, that's not a reason to cry. I know you're, you're, you're trying to manipulate me is what you're doing.

1:08:16And if I like go over there and give you a hug, I've just like, boom, granted you success. You just won that one, my son. Like, no, you are running and you trip. And I know that didn't hurt, but you want me to like, if there is a single cry sound out of my kids, my wife is typically like, right there. And I'm just not that way. And she hates that. She hates that. Like, Like, you know, and I think there's definitely like literature about that might not be the greatest approach with kids. Like if they're crying, they're like they're looking for consolment. If that's a word, they're looking to be consoled.

1:08:58But I'm kind of like I got nothing wrong with crying. But if you cry because if you cry for the wrong reasons, I'm not going to cosign that shit. Yeah, I think that there is literature actually on what you think and what you say. I'm on team Michael for that. I am because I think there's one thing if you're crying because you got hurt or something like that. But just if you're crying because you're trying to manipulate or you didn't get what you want, what are you teaching your children? If they cause a tantrum, they should just get what they want at all times. Childhood, it should be a microcosm for what happens outside.

1:09:42People don't live in a vacuum, right? And I think that what's happening now is that kids are really becoming soft and they don't have any coping mechanisms because of the parents helicoptering around them and coddling them with every cry. Now, I'm not saying to your point that if a kid is crying because they're actually hurt, you don't console them, you don't support them, you don't help, you don't comfort them. That's the word you're looking, comfort them. But it's a different thing altogether. If they're just crying because they're not getting what they want. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You're just enabling bad behavior that way.

1:10:19I also think just another form of leadership in parenting is like you can't expect your kids to want to do everything you do. You just can't. Especially if it's hard. But exposing them on a consistent basis to what you know makes you great in your life. Like my kids don't want to work out with me every day. But they know dad works out every day because they see it. When you're modeling it, kids learn better through visual modeling versus words. I just had that woman on, I told you, who was a leading psychologist for children. She was saying that fewer words, more modeling. Like kids learn through watching way more than through listening.

1:11:04Yeah. I mean, they see me work out. They see me work hard. they see me meditate in the sauna they see me go into fucking cold water all the time and think it's like hilarious but i expose them to all the stuff you know because and they also see me come home for dinner every single night it's right you know and so i do think that that that plays deeply into leadership right like my father used to say shit like this to me do what I say not what I do and in my opinion that's just like that's like the opposite yeah whoever who is going to want to listen to someone who says that do what I say not what I do like fuck you right like you're trying to teach a young like a like a kid coming up stepping into puberty do what I say not what I do like no be a man and do what you want other people to do don't say what you want other people to do in my opinion you know and so I think my kids sort of see that, you know.

1:12:06For sure they do. Okay, let's end this with your routine, because we didn't get to it. Remember I said there's a whole section about your actual routine. Let's talk about your routine and wrap it. So I've got a few different routines now that I do in the morning. I've got my ideal, like all the bells and whistles, got all my shit, I'm in my groove routine. And then I've got like my no matter what, like non-negotiable routine. and recently I've actually started to flip a few things around because I haven't worked out first thing in the morning in a long ass time but when I got back from Europe I was like let me beat this jet lag I'm just gonna get up and like do my prayers my push-ups and go right into the gym to start working out and I've actually really kind of loved that so I might start throwing that back into the mix a little bit but my kind of long drawn out sort of morning routine that starts at 5.15 and finishes at 6.30 in the morning is basically this.

1:13:00I wake up and one thing that I've been doing for a number of years now is super cheesy, but really, really helpful for me is smile. So I wake up in the morning, I fucking smile first thing. I throw back my eye mask, I look up at the ceiling and I smile shit eating grin ear to ear and I go like right into gratitude. And that gratitude is basically like I'm grateful for my wife sleeping next to me. I'm grateful for the house we live in. I'm grateful for my health. I'm grateful for my sobriety. I'm grateful I woke up. I'm grateful for my kids and the dogs. I'm grateful for my truck. I do like, I don't know, seven or eight things, 15 seconds.

1:13:32And I'm just like, boom, kick my day off with gratitude. I get out of bed. I walk into the bathroom. I take a piss. I wash my face. And I used to weigh myself when I was competing in bodybuilding. I don't do that anymore. And then I go downstairs to the guest bathroom because that's when I start making some noise. And my wife fucking hates if I do it in the main bathroom that early, but I do, I pray. So I have a prayer practice that I, that I've been doing for almost 20 years or 20 years now. I'm sober 20 years. So I've been doing this prayer practice every single morning for a long time. And then right after I pray, I do 50 pushups.

1:14:05And right after I do 50 pushups, I do my stretches. And that's like a five minute down dog, up dog, cat cow thing, just to get the blood flowing, pushups, prayers, prayers, push-ups and poses, I call it. And then I'll go into the guest bedroom and that's where I have my red light panel. And so I'll do meditating at the red light panel when I do that for about 20 minutes, 15 minutes. And then I walk back out to the kitchen. I get a large jug of water with some electrolytes and some supplements that I put into the water. I've been loving these, these like this liposomal. Do you know that this liposomal, you know anything about liposomal supplements.

1:14:46You got to check out Roe Nutrition. You just got to check these guys out. It's amazing stuff. What is it? So it's liquid supplements. And I take curcumin and resveratrol. I take NAD plus and I take glutathione. I love glutathione. I take truniogen for NAD. That's the best one, I think. And it's a precursor. So it kind of tells your body to make it. Okay. But so I've just been using this stuff. So I just do the liquid liposomal supplements and And then I also throw some shilajit in there and I shake it up. That's a good one. I like that. Yeah, there's a great. Will you send me all that? Last time you were supposed to send me a recipe.

1:15:27Do you remember? What, my morning? No, some pancake, but that's okay. No, you made those pancakes. Different pancake. Different pancake. So I do this. I have this stuff, this company called Mana. It's like it's the best shilajit basically ever. And I put that in. I shake it up. and then I make my way out to the sauna and I go out to the sauna and that's where I do my reading. So I read for like 20 to 30 minutes in the sauna and then I, you know, about 25 minutes in is the negotiation period with whether or not I'm going to go into the cold plunge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I always go. I go into the cold plunge for about three minutes.

1:16:03I walk out, take a peek in the mirror, say, Chernow, today's a good day. You're a good man. Go get it. And then I go out to the kitchen and that's when my kids and my wife are there. I love it. And so like that's sort of like the morning routine that I did for a long ass time. And I honestly like it's a lot of shit. But the truth of the matter is, is like when I am doing that consistently, I am at my A game. I just am. I'm at my A game. And in the beginning of the summer, it was hard because it was a lot of traveling. So it kind of threw me off. But I was totally cool with doing my non-negotiables, which is basically piss, wash my face, push pushups, prayers, and poses, and like my meal one.

1:16:47And that like, but you know, I think that there is a level of flexibility we should all give ourselves with a morning routine. However, I do think there, it is super important to have one. Like structure in the morning, in my opinion, is just important. I totally agree. Like if you don't have any direct, like if you wake up every day and you do something different, right? Like, you know, and for anybody listening, I don't make my bed every single morning because my wife is still sleeping. But like at the hotel, fucking make my bed right away. Like it just feels good. Like I get up, I roll out of bed, I turn around, I fucking make the bed.

1:17:23And having even the smallest thing, right? Like I have a company called Creatures of Habit. We make this high protein overnight oatmeal. Those guys 20 years ago told me to have oatmeal every morning. It made me feel good. I'm not saying that oatmeal is going to change your life, but it started me on the path of like making better decisions nutritionally. It was a gateway drug for you. It was a gateway drug. Yeah, I totally agree. And it kept you on point. These are things that keep you on point. Why I like routine is because it keeps you on point to make better decisions later on in the day. That's it.

1:17:52That's what it's for. That's it. We've got to wrap this because it's been like forever. And you're falling asleep. No, I'm not falling asleep. I actually really enjoyed this. I thought you were really interesting. And I really love, you gave some really tactile, actionable information. And I really did. So you mean you're going to, you're going to, you're going to actually. I'm going to post this one. You are? I am. I am going to upload this one. Not today, but I will. And I think you've come a long way, actually. I think I'm glad, I'm glad that the other one didn't work out. Because I think you were much better on this podcast.

1:18:27You do? Yeah. You were succinct. And there was some really, really great takeaways. I love the parenting stuff. I love the relationship stuff. I love the routine, of course. I just want to finish with one thing. I think that if there's anything anybody should take away from this is this idea that the one thing that I do think helped me most in my life is help. And I think not enough people talk about that. And so if there's one thing you could take away, you know, the commitment stuff is important. and the commitment, confidence, courage, like that's a great one. But help was the one thing that actually changed my life.

1:19:03And so I would just say, when in doubt, fucking ask for it, just ask for it. Don't be afraid, don't be too prideful, don't like, help is the key to every successful venture ever taken in life by anyone. It's just help, because guess what? You're not gonna do it alone, no one does. No one does anything alone. There's no such thing as a self-made man. It takes a village. I love that. Ask for help. That's the best takeaway. This is why I like you so much. Isn't he so likable, everybody? He's so like, you're so likable. Thanks. If you like me that much, buy my fucking oatmeal. Yeah, that's true. Try his oatmeal.

1:19:45It's very high in proteins, very stupid. How many superfoods are in that thing? A bunch. She is flax, pumpkin seeds, pink and melane salt, D3, omega-3s, probiotic, digestive enzymes, vegan. It's good. It's good. And there's 100 ,000 flavors of it too. Not 100 ,000, but a lot. Michael, you're amazing. Also, check him out on Instagram. At Michael Chernow. Easy. Easy. Okay. Bye. Love you, Jen. Love you. I love you. Bye.

1:20:19Thank you.