Episode 443: Colleen Pelly: The Secret Quality That Makes You More Hireable Than Technical Skills

22:41Yeah. So I think there's, I mean, just we've been talking about tech. Tech pays really well at all levels. Give me some jobs that people maybe haven't thought of or people who are maybe in college or, you know, this is what I guess, let me just kind of like, what I'm thinking is like people are thinking of the same five jobs. You know, when they come in, like, am I going to be a lawyer? Am I going to be a doctor? Am I going to be an accountant? Am I going to be an influencer? That's a big one now. YouTuber. Yeah. These are all the things that people are actually doing. But there's a whole variety and array of jobs out there and careers, I should call it, not just jobs, that people don't know about because they just don't know what they don't know.

23:18Yeah. So the way I want to frame this question is different. I want you to tell us some careers or career paths or industries or areas that would be very lucrative for people to maybe explore. Yeah. I think just starting from the world I know really well is I think recruiting is such an interesting space because you don't need a formal education. If you have one, that's great, but you don't need it, right? Like recruiting, there's no designation. You need to be a recruiter. There's no designation you need. And, you know, I have people in my life who like have all these letters after their name and they went to school for 15 years and it's like, I make significantly more.

23:55Like, I mean that in a, it's coming across as not humble, but also apologies. Don't be humble on this show. I want you to tell us the truth. Yeah. So it's like, I, if, especially in, um, agency recruitment, because a lot of it's commission based. So if you're confident and you're great at what you do and it's uncapped commission, you're just going to keep earning. But the other side, like this is like a less conventional path, but I feel like so many trades roles are ignored, like being an electrician or a plumber or those pieces. They're making a significant amount of money and you're able to get educated or the requirements you need in a much faster timeframe.

24:25And so I think that's something that's kind of ignored and also needed. So we work with influencers all the time. We hire for them all the time. At some point, that's not going to be a job anymore. And you know, what's always going to be needed is those like essential. So like what's essential that's going to be needed all the time? Can I tell you, okay, I want to like, you said a couple of things that I want to just touch on. It's really interesting. I have a very good friend living in Canada in Toronto. Her and I were really close when I was living in Canada many years ago. She was a recruiter, an executive search recruiter.

24:54Is that the same thing? Yeah. Some people just do executive search. Like we do everything from entry level through executives. She did either one, the executive search. Actually, no, she was a recruiter because she did only tech stuff. Yeah. She was making so much money. Yeah. It was absurd. Like it would, it was shocking how much money that she was making as a recruiter because of the commission staff. Like you could make so much money if you're good. Yeah. That's the first thing I was going to say. So really what you need to be is tenacious because you have to be able to call people. Also remember people.

25:27It's the, remembering is so key. Like I always say this to people, like everyone's like, how are you good at your job? Like, what does it mean to be successful in recruitment? It's really just keeping in touch with people and remembering details. But that's a skill in itself. A hundred percent. Yeah. To keep in touch, to be able to follow up, to maintain a relationship. These are like fundamental. These are like, to me, these are life skills that like make the biggest difference. Right. And so, and also be good at sales, right? You've got to sell yourself. You've got to sell the company, the opportunity.

25:57Like this is to me a massive area for people who are listening and they don't know what to potentially maybe look into for a job, being a recruiter is a great option, I think. And also, if you're placing jobs that are like 100 ,000 plus, you're making a major commission off of that. Like what's the commissions you guys make? So as a company, like from a business owner, we charge 20 % of the base salary and then your recruiters will get anywhere from like 10 to 15 % of that. Yeah, that's great money. The other thing I find very interesting is what you're saying, to your point, plumbers, electricians.

26:26Do you know that how impossible it is to find a plumber? Right. I needed a plumber for my house. We were waiting three weeks, a month maybe, because they're so in demand. And these plumbers are making a lot of money. Yeah. Especially in the emergency space as well, because at that time you're like, I'll pay whatever it is. Fix this, please. Yeah. But I think plumbers now, there are plumbers, and I think this is pretty much universal now, like everywhere, are making more money than doctors. Right. And so I think there's, that's probably just an underrated. I mean, when you talk about recruiters, I feel like it's, no one wakes up and is like, I'm going to be a recruiter when I grow up.

27:05So that's probably, but I think you're right. There's sort of like, my parents want me to be a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher or whatever it is. And I think there's like some like underrated pieces that are missing. By the way, teachers make no money. And they should make more than all of us. That's by the way, one of these jobs, or I should say careers, that's like that, they pay them nothing and they deserve so much more. It's unbelievable. My kids are younger, like they're not in school yet. And I just even think about the daycare people. I'll leave, I'll drop my kids off sometimes and everyone's crying and I'm like, you're not paid enough.

27:33They're not paid enough. I don't know how, I go crazy with two of them. Oh, me too. I can't even imagine like 15. But there are some people who are just like really, like they have a lot of patience. If you're somebody who has a lot of patience and just loves kids, it's a great job. Me, I would strangle every child in there, including myself. I'd be the worst person to work in a day care. But I do find that interesting. So there's, in that trades world, you're talking electricians, you're talking plumbers, carpenters. Yeah. And I think like even maybe less, we did some landscape hiring for a while.

28:04And so like maybe not like direct like laborers, but like that can grow into sort of like a more niche trade. But I just think in general, people overlook those essential pieces for things that are needed. Yeah. I don't know. And I think there are key industries, like if you're thinking more on the corporate side, like anything with a commission, so like recruitment is the same way because it's sales, but anything in sales where you have the ability, if you're great at what you do, you're going to do well. Not everyone's going to do well in these industries because the base salary is not a lot.

28:32You need the commission. You also have to be a self-starter. Yeah. Hungry. Yeah. Hungry. Yeah. But also like entrepreneurial because it is your business that you're growing and it may be working within another business or just on your own. Like this is to me, it's like being an entrepreneur, right? Like these, some, everyone thinks it's sexy. Oh, I'm on a, like it's become a very like hashtag worthy, you know, word. Like I'm an entrepreneur. Do you know how hard it is to be an entrepreneur? I think about this all the time. Like when I first started my company and everyone's like, oh my gosh, you're doing it.

29:01And you're like, do you know how hard this is? I'm crying in the shower and trying to figure out what to do every day. And you find your groove, but it's like you go from being, so if I'm an expert in recruitment and then I start a company, all of a sudden I have to be an expert in finance and tech and marketing. And you're not, and you're learning and you're making so many mistakes. But if you're, it's not for everyone, but if you have the mentality, like an entrepreneurial spirit or whatever you want to call it, I think really the word is resilience. If you can be a resilient person, you can make it happen.

29:25But I don't remember the stat, but it's something like wildly high that the number of people who try to start a business and fail. They do. Yeah. But you have to, you have to have the, the, the thick skin, the stomach for it. I also, you know, I don't know if you know this either, but I did this, my whole brand is around being bold, right? Like, okay. And I did this TED talk on being bold is actually more important than being intelligent and all these things. And this whole idea was behind this, the 10 % target, which is this idea that you make 10 attempts at whatever you want most. And so the idea behind it is that one of two things happen.

30:00Either you get the opportunity that you go after, or another thing will present itself that you never even knew existed, by just going through the process. And the nice thing is what happens when you do that process is you end up failing and you get comfortable with failing because now you already have like some kind of framework where you're like, okay, I'm making 10 attempts. So now that's what I'm doing. So if I fail at the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, that's okay. And then you actually teach yourself to become immune to failing. I love that. Yeah. And so, and I started to talk to all these like big sales companies because like that's really at the end of the day for people to become or for people to make a shot or you know give it a shot or it's about learning how to be resilient how to be how to be okay with failure and you're not going to get anywhere if you don't fail not first of all like the majority of people that i know including myself i fail 99.9 percent of the time you just need to win once but you will win yeah but it's a numbers game it's volume.

31:05The more you take a shot, the better your chance is at actually getting that shot. Yeah. And having something work out. I had somebody, like an old mentor tell me once to look at a step back or a failure as feedback. Yeah. Step back as feedback. I've heard that. And it resonated with me at the time. And it's like, if you can find a way to, okay, this didn't go well, but what can I learn from it? Because I'm going to do it again. Yeah. Yeah. I also think it's also like we can talk about, I feel like all this, like people just try to like, oh, setback is, you know, is either feedback or setback is a feedback or like, or there's all these like other cliche things.

31:43Similar, like along the way. Yeah, like cliches, like, you know, like it's when you're like, when you fall, when you get up, it's like redirection and all these things. And at the end of the day, it's really simple. It's like the more shots you make, the better chance you're going to get at a success. If you don't ask for it, it's never going to happen. You don't ask, you don't get. It's like the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? Like maybe it's a Canadian thing, you know? You know what cliche I truly, like there's so many that go around, but one that I - There's so many. We have a whole podcast on that.

32:13Yeah, we should. Yeah. But the one that always has resonated with me too, which I hate to, it makes you so uncomfortable, but you're not going to grow if you're not uncomfortable. So like growth is going to, whatever that is, growth happens out of your comfort zone or whatever it is. It's so true. Well, a hundred percent. Like that's what I was saying earlier. It's like when you are practicing the, these 10 attempts and you're failing at them, the more you do something, the less uncomfortable it becomes. Right. So like me at this point, like I'll do anything. I don't give a shit. Like if it works, it works.

32:42If not, it doesn't even like, it's like no, it's like you're confident too, which I think takes, that's a skill. But, but you know what? Confidence comes from being competent. And I feel like I've, I've built that muscle of competence because I've tried and practiced and practiced so much that the more you practice, you get better and better. And so now I feel like I'm really competent at failing. So now it's like, okay, that's my superpower. I don't care when I fail. So like if I try to do something or I ask for something and I don't get it, well, okay, well, at least I feel better about myself that at least I made the shot.

33:16You tried. Yeah. And I think that rejection is always better than regret. I never, right? Yes. Yes. I never want to look back at something and be like, you know, what, what if? I wish I did. Yeah. Or what if, what if I tried that? Or like, what if that happened? Like on your deathbed, you're not thinking about all the things that you did. You think about all the things you did not do. Yeah. You know, like, oh, if I only apologize to this person. Right. Or spent more time with this or did this. Yes. So regret, I find regret to be a really horrible gutter, gutter, like gutturally bad feeling. That's a word.

33:53Yeah. So I'll get rejected all day long. I don't care. Well, I think anyone who starts a small business knows all about rejection. Right. So like you're, so like this is why I like you because you are, you are an entrepreneur because you started this business. You're a recruiter, which in itself, it's like a double whammy, right? It's a lot of no in your face. It's a lot of, like being a recruiter right away is super difficult to start your own business. And then a recruitment business, which is all, all eat what you kill, period, end of story, right? And it's a really saturated market. Is it?

34:24Yeah. Like there are, I don't know, I can't remember, but you like, you could throw a stone and hit like 20 different agencies just within my like area where I live. And I think it's so it's consistently something that somebody told me, like a competitor who's a friend of mine told me when I first started my business, there's more than enough work for all of us. You just have to find your lane. And it's so true. Like, you know, I think even a few years ago I would kind of work with anyone because I wanted a client. Right. And I was like, sure. And then, you know, as I've kind of gained more success, I'm able to be like, I don't actually know that we're right for each other.

34:53I don't really like the way you treat your people in a kind way. So it's like, I'm going to like find my groove and my people and like find my space in it. And sort of like, how can we differentiate? Like, if we're not trying to be like everyone else, we don't want to work with everyone. And we want to like be, I don't know, like curate kind of the type of clients we want to work with. So that's been cool too. That's like-minded like you. Can I ask you another question that I find? Yeah. I find it interesting because also the workforce has also changed a lot over the last few years, especially since COVID, right?

35:25Nobody wants to go into work. Everybody wants to work remotely. How does that impact employment? Yes. So just on like a, like geographical location, like the, The remote, if I'm given a role and you see it's remote first, it's always going to be easier. You can cast a wider net. Like, you know, you can even like if they're in a different time zone, even you can shift hours. But like being remote allows for the largest candidate pool. A lot of companies have kind of fallen back into a hybrid model. So like coming into the office a couple of days a week. But when we have companies, like we have a few clients and they're lovely, but it's sort of like demanding five days a week in office.

36:01Nobody wants that anymore. And so I think, yes, there's some roles like nurses. Like there's some roles you have to be in person, that kind of thing. But I do feel like I'm going to use the word flexibility instead of remote. Like I think the most attractive thing companies can offer is flexibility. And what I mean by that is not just where you work, but also time. Like even my own team. I know recruitment's a little bit like you just need your computer and a phone. But it's sort of like I don't really care when you work or where you work. I'm going to know if you're doing your job by the number of people you hire or you don't.

36:30And my employees, I feel one of the things they, you know, we do surveys a lot. like what do you like about being here? Like what's working and what's not working? And I think it's like if you give your team flexibility, they're going to feel trusted and people who feel trusted want to do well for you because they want to be around you. So I think flexibility in terms of like, yeah, the hours you work or like what you need, like maybe I want to pick my kids up every day at three, but then I'm going to do a little work later in the evening because that works for me. Or I'm not going to work at all on Wednesday because I want to go do something, but I'll work a little bit on Sunday.

36:58So I think there's like trust your team to get the job done and they will as opposed to sort of setting rigid regulations. The companies that set those strict rules, I find like nobody's going to stay. But do the companies do better when their employees are in office versus hybrid or remote? I have found no success like key indicators that are any different if someone's in an office versus not. Like I think there are some industries where it's very useful to be at a table. like you know if you're architects or review like anything you can do in person you can do on a computer really but you know like my husband for instance he's a civil engineer and he loves he's like I miss the everyone in the meeting on the looking at the same piece of paper on the same table he likes that kind of thing so hybrid is great for him but for me there's no difference and so I think it's for all it shows to me and like this is just my personal opinion maybe it's not popular but I think it just shows that you don't trust your people to get their job done I don't know I think there's something to be said for two things employee morale yep and also just camaraderie like yeah i feel like from a culture from a culture standpoint because what happens is i find we're living in a more and more disconnected world as like just in general yep and now we're putting the onus like the the rules are now on the employees not the employers.

38:18Like we're having a bend towards people's disinterest or desire to go into an office. And what I feel is happening is people are becoming lazy and they're not realizing that like they're the work. I mean, you're right. There's some jobs that, yeah, it doesn't require to be back in the office, but it's not even so much about that. It's about creating community, corporate culture. Corporate culture is very hard to build when everybody is dispersed in their homes. And you never see each other. Yeah. It's like you hear companies like when they host their town halls or their big events, people feel motivated.

38:56That's why I think you're right that why most companies have landed on hybrid because people want both. So they want the ability to like go to an appointment on Wednesday and work from home, but also be able to go into the office on Thursday and see their team. So I think that's probably why most of our clients have landed in that space because the community field does come back. Kind of depends who you are. So I've been remote since It's like way before COVID. But you're in a sales job. It's different. Yeah. Because I don't like going into an office, but that's just my personal opinion. I don't like, listen, I hate the office.

39:24What I feel is that like you don't get a job that's office driven. But I think, but it's different when you are a salesperson because you, like your, your bottom line is based, what you eat is based on how much you sell. That's right. Yeah. Okay. So then that doesn't, there has to be some like malleability. Okay. But if it's a marketing job or if it's a job that's involving PR or whatever it is, I don't know. I'm just - Design, yeah. Design. Design's a great example. I feel like it should, we are giving our, we're giving people way too much onus and flexibility at the employer's expense. Like work-life balance.

40:04Like now people are like calling the shots. I don't want to work later than three. I don't want to work on Friday. I don't want to wear that to work. It's like, you know what? then don't get a job and you'll go hungry. This might not be the right place for you. If that, that, that. Yeah, I hear you. Like, at what point is it too much? At what point? Like, I feel like what the pendulum has now swung so far one direction that it's, it's becoming a real problem. Like where it's, it's a different thing. Like, oh, I, I, the triggers, a safe spot, the safe places. Yes, right. You know, all of this kind of rhetoric.

40:36It is softer. It's soft and gentle. Yeah. Which I feel, from all the research and data I've seen, I've seen people and companies actually plummet. They're not staying plateau. They're not actually like staying – they're not thriving, let's put it that way. Yeah, I think there's definitely a mindfulness. I don't know what the right word is. That wasn't there before in a certain way. I don't think mindfulness is the right word. Wokeness is another word. Yeah, I'm trying to think of the right word. That's the word I'm thinking. But what I will say, I agree and I disagree with you. I think like the piece, you can still set, I need XXXXX accomplished by this time.

41:15It just, how you get there, like it doesn't - Right, there should be parameters in place you're saying. Yeah, I think like, you know, if you can't work on Friday because of what your life looks like, but you're still going to hit your deadline, then I don't really care. So I do think, I kind of think I'm a balance of how you're feeling and how I like it. Yeah, you're saying, yeah, like this is like, I'm not where you are, right? Yeah. I feel like I'm not a work, I'm not an office person, so I know better to get a job, an office job. You're going to do what's going to work for your lifestyle. And also, whatever money I make, if I don't make money and I don't work, then I won't make money.

41:46And if I do work, then I will make money. But my personality is okay with that. A lot of people's personalities are not okay with that. Right, and it's not like aligning. It's not aligning because I think a lot of times people want to be, again, entrepreneur. Yes. They want to be an entrepreneur, but they don't have the chops to actually do that. So they want a company to kind of pay them a salary. Yeah. But then they don't want to like, they don't, they don't want to acquiesce to what it requires to have a salary job. To get this done. Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally hear you. I think there's a, I mean, it's like a tricky game a lot of companies are playing right now too, because they want to feel like they're inclusive and making sure everyone's feeling safe and everyone's feeling comfortable.

42:28But also there is a bottom line. Like it's not like where my brain keeps going to, like even myself, like one of my biggest learnings in my company was I've kept keep people on for far too long. Yes. Because I'm super empathetic and, you know, or I'll do work for them or I'll end up picking up the slack. And then at some point I have to like put my big curl pants on. I remember I'm trying to run a company and I think like that's something as well. Like, so there's this hard thing where you, or one of my learnings or one of my areas of opportunities, I want people to like me and I need to like, why?

42:58Yeah. Maybe I'm not for everyone and that's okay. Right. Right. Right. What I should be shifting more on is like, I want people to like my work and like my ethic and like my communication and if they like me or not, it doesn't matter. And that's take, I'm still a work in progress on that point. I think we all have work in progress. But I guess my other question again was kind of like what I was saying is, have you seen it more difficult to find or place people because of this new gentle, mindful, as you would put it? What was the other word that you used? Yeah. I'm trying to think of the right, the correct way.

43:29Yeah. Safe is a good way to put it. safe. Yes and no. I think the Gen Z generation, I guess, they'll just say no. And so yes, the Roblox would be like, okay, that doesn't work for you. Then it's not the right opportunity for you. And I'd rather not place you because you're going to quit anyway and we're going to waste time and resources. So I think if we're going to find a silver lining, because that's my mentality, it would be like, it's just opening the door for the right people. So I think my job as a recruiter or my job if we're going to use sales is I just need to paint the picture completely transparently.

43:59like this is what it looks like and it works for you or it doesn't. And I think as a sales tactic in general, you want the person to always feel like it's their decision, right? Like even if I'm guiding the process and I'm guiding the decision process, I want you to always feel like you're the one making the choice. And so it's like, here's exactly what it looks like. If this doesn't work for you, that's okay. And I'm not going to be offended if this isn't the right opportunity for you. Here's why I think it is. And you can let me know if you want to have a conversation about it. And I will say there are like, when I think about the senior C-suite level, not even C-suite, but like just senior director, VP level to like this younger generation, there is a difference in work ethic in terms of like what they are willing to do, like commuting too.

44:37COVID really, like when I first started my hiring and you know, the world was not on fire yet was 45 minute commute was normal. And now people are like, I'm not leaving my house. So that's definitely been different. So like if we have a role that's in office and it's like more than 30 minutes, we can't like search, I would say 30 minutes is like the max people are willing to drive. Really? Yeah. And that's shifted a lot because it used to be like, you know, in Toronto, people could live outside of the city and they would willingly commute in every day. And I remember. Yeah. It's not a thing anymore.

45:05When I was living in Toronto and I was at the Raptors at the time. Oh, fun. I remember people were coming in, taking them in. They took like they were living in all these places that were, I can say the names, people won't know, but like Oakfield, this is all, whatever. It was an, I know, but 45 minutes to an hour. And it was like kind of what they, what you did. And it was just normal and no one cared. Well, it was not that they didn't care. It's what you had to do. Yeah. They knew it was a part of the, what was needed. If you want, if you, if you wanted the job, like it was what was required of you.

45:33And this is my issue. It's like, what is required? Like sometimes you're going to have to go above and beyond what you want to do to get to where you want to be. And that's what I'm talking about. But like now there's, there's a whole thing on like how Gen Z, do you know that 26 % of Gen Z are now bringing their parent to a job interview because they don't feel comfortable and confident enough to have an interview. Yeah. This is what's happening in, well, in the US anyway. I don't know what the numbers are. You've never experienced anything like this? No, I've never experienced that before. I definitely have experienced like mid-interview process, sort of like, you know, you meet the hiring manager, you meet me and then you'll meet the hiring manager and someone being like, you know, I don't feel like this is the right environment for me, like pulling out before their interview.

46:19That's the most sort of like Gen Z behavior I've experienced. Pulling out before the interview? Yeah, like sort of like, say an emergency came up and you had to move your meeting, you know, it's like, I'm so sorry I have to push this. And then being like, you don't respect my time. So I'm not going to come to the interview today. And it could have been like the interview person like had to run to their kid's daycare because their kid had to, like anything. So I find there's like a lack of empathy or maybe, I don't know if that's the way. Hold on, you're telling me that someone that you are interviewing for a job, for them to have a job.

46:48And you had to switch it, let's just say, to reschedule. My client needed me to move it, and they were like, oh, no, you obviously don't respect me. See, this is the kind of bullshit that I'm talking about. No, I don't disagree with you. And I remember being like, this isn't a personal attack on you. This is like the reality of this person's schedule, and it happened. The fact that you're justifying it to this person, to me, is even crazy. Let me get this straight. I'm going to help you find a job that you could pay your bills with. Because I had to reschedule and shift, you know, they're telling you now what's what.

47:19This is my, this is my problem with Gen Z. Right. Yep. No, it's such terrible. What's interesting too, is it's so like vastly different. Like you can tell in the way you communicate with people. And I think like there also is a whole new world of work that didn't exist when we were choosing our careers. Like to your point, like kids want to be influencers now. That wasn't a thing. They want to be, or in social media. Or in social media or like, I don't know, paid to like sell a product and you know gummy bear hair whatever right they want to either like or they want it there's other types of jobs out there like social media managers or creators content creators is a big one right content creators having young kids now i'm like oh that's interesting you're growing up in this whole world yeah he's my oldest is almost four so we're not there yet but i do feel like it's just this whole other parenting dynamic and so when you talk about the generational changes in the interview process or in the hiring force does that come back to like parenting too, which is interesting.

48:11It does. It kind of, I guess you're right. And like what jobs, what kind of careers kids are wanting to seek is like you said, very different than what it used to be. Like it used to be doctor, lawyer, let's say. Yeah. Nurse. Oh, now it's like, what can I, how can I like get into AI or get into content creation? Content creation is a big one or the YouTuber. AI is a big one, but AI is like going to be taking over like both of our jobs. Yeah. Like we won't need, they won't need recruiters. They won't need podcasters. They won't need anything. I do feel like there is a reality where there's like a human interaction that can't be replaced.

48:47Yeah. And 100%, like even now I use ChatGPT and different AI tools to help me write more efficiently or create content or whatever that looks like. But I do think there's a way for us to work. I mean, maybe I'm being naive, but like harmoniously with AI without it fully replacing. And I think, yes, there's going to be a ton of jobs that are replace, but I also think it's going to create different opportunities. So I think there, again, maybe I'm just like, like cautiously optimistic all of the time, but I do think as much as things are going to shift, I do think it's still going to create new, new opportunities.

49:17Well, what I would think would be a really great area to get involved with is how to use AI, because someone's going to have to like, I would think manually work it, right? So like, even though AI is going to be taking over a lot of different jobs, right. And they have, they, Like they are already being, like to your point, like I use it when I need to do a presentation or some type of really huge communication piece or like research or all these things. Research has been so useful. Research is so useful. But you have to know how to use it effectively. So having people to actually like use it or teach it is very, very valuable.

49:57Or I think too, like when I'm thinking about my own future or your own future too, where you're like, okay, so what are podcasters or what are recruiters going to need specifically help from AI and how can I monetize that? Yeah. And I don't know the answer, but like, that's something I think about a lot. My husband and I talk about it. He's like, I know, but what are you going to need? Like how are recruitment and AI are going to be partners and how can you be the one to start that platform? Yeah, exactly. I don't know. I'd love to. I need to figure it out. So, but it's a way to kind of like, so you're utilizing AI, but in a way that also incorporates a human person.

50:27Yeah. Cause I, I mean, I'm hopeful that not all of us will be completely eliminated. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, like I said, I think that they're going to have to be people that man the AI or teach the AI or keep on like creating versions and versions of it. Or, you know, the truth is like you can't, like a layman's person like me going on AI to research something is very different than someone who really knows how to use it well. And they're very, they know exactly specifically how to talk to it and they will get way better, more unique information you know you're already seeing it too though like those master like master classes available being like how to like use ai and how to be better at it and yeah we it's kind of one of those situations where we kind of got to get on board and um but i think there's we're in the middle of this cool gap opportunity from like an employment and workforce perspective is like there is a way for us to like monetize what this looks like i just don't know the answer i know well it's a work of progress i'll let you know when i figured out thank you well okay so thank you let me know What other things can you teach us or that we can glean from you in terms of the workforce, what we could be looking?

51:35Is there anything else that we can give our audience? Yeah. I think we touched on it briefly, but when we're talking about emotional intelligence, just two things. One, on the client side. So on the hiring side, we need to let go a little bit of the classic resume that has the exact same job title and the work experience you need and focus a little bit more on like what's transferable. So like, that's one of the things I feel like companies aren't doing. And so I think we need to find a way in your interview process, like, is there a way to talk about resiliency and behavioral concepts and social constructs and bringing that into that in addition to what they technically need?

52:12And then the piece on the candidate side that I would say that I think is, we touched on this, but like, I will not ever stop talking about like the power of your network. And so like, if you're all the way from a new grad. If you're a new grad and you're looking for a job, who do you know at the company you're looking for and how can you get a direct connection? Because that's going to go further than your resume all the way up to those senior executive levels. It's like, how are you communicating? And the way we all know each other is the way you're going to get ahead. I hate to say that, but it is who you know to a certain extent.

52:40And even my own client base, when I first started, I literally just reached out to everyone I've never met ever, essentially. It's like, I started this company and like, does anyone want to help me? And a lot of it's a slow game, right? Like I have clients even just this year who like I reached out to like three years ago and they're like, Hey, you know what? I am ready now. And you're like, great. I'm glad I kept, I got, it's like that fine lining. You don't want to be annoying in recruiting. Like you want to, it's like, I want to be like pushy to a certain extent, but I want you to still want to hear from me.

53:05See, this is the EQ part, right? Like you teach that because that's like a very, that's a, that's a skill to know how much to do where you're not pushy versus annoying or annoying. Well, cause I think you try to put yourself in the other side of it. Like, what would I want here. And like, I think again, making people feel like it's their choice too. Right. So it's like, if you don't want to hear from me, no problem. Please just let me know. Exactly. But it's really important to really build out your network. I think like you, like we say that there's a reason why I believe this cliche, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

53:37And it's about like networking well. And I always say that everybody could be a conduit to someone else. So it's not who you're speaking to at that exact moment, but they have a whole network And then that person has a whole network. So always leave another meeting with another name. That's what I always tell people. I love that. Yeah. But thank you so much, Colleen, for coming on. I really appreciate this information. This was really fun. I hope people have gleaned a lot of, I think they have, they've gleaned a lot of actionable things of what other areas they can look at or look into that maybe they haven't thought of.

54:09Where do people find you? Yeah, so our two main platforms would be LinkedIn and Instagram. So Instagram is at the Lynchpin Co. and then on LinkedIn it's just the Linchpin Co. So please come find us and follow along. Thank you so much. I'm going to follow you. Of course, you're welcome. I love this. I think it's very helpful. I like to give people things that they can actually utilize and things that are helpful, and this is definitely one of them, especially in the time we're in now. So thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.