Episode 481: Aliza Kelly: Why Astrology Is Actually a Data-Driven System (And How Accurate It Really Is)

27:51I understand why it's an attractive concept because it's true. It is true. It's true that working with, and I can't speak to your friend's system, but working with astrology is an incredible enhancement to your life. It optimizes your life, period. Well, what I also think of it is it's another tool in your toolbox, right? I love the more information that can potentially like give me, give me information to be more successful or better or more aligned. Why not? Like, I don't see the, there's no harm in it, right? Totally. But like, do people get too stuck on it? Do you ever see that? Like that becomes like their only source?

28:34Yes. But I don't think that's an astrology issue. I think that that's the way that that it's, that's how that person is interacting with anything. You know, when somebody is obsessively like pulling tarot cards around a guy, or if they keep, you know, checking their email when they're waiting for, you know, something to come through, like that's more of their own anxiety and their own patterning around how they're processing their world, you know, than it is about astrology itself. Because astrology is, astrology is very fluid and it really meets you where you are. So if we are becoming obsessive about, well, I guess two things.

29:16If we're becoming obsessive about checking our chart and being like, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? What's going to happen? Like maybe it's good to actually take a step back. Maybe you're not in a good space to work with astrology because that's you just projecting anxiety onto the system. But on the other hand, as another issue, if people double down on their shitty behavior because of astrology, if they're like, well, I'm a Scorpio. Well, I'm a badge. That's just how I am. Also a bad use of astrology, right? Astrology is here to help us become the best version of ourselves. Astrology is here to help us get to know ourselves.

29:47Okay. I have a question for you because I don't know my birthday, but you know your, you don't know your, I know my birthday. I don't know the time I was born. That's what I meant, but you know the time you were born. So let's just use you as an example. Okay. Are you married? Cause you're wearing a ring. I am married. Yes. Okay. So how long have you been married? I've been married since 2022, but I've been with my partner for eight years. Okay. So when you met your partner, did it make sense based on his chart and your chart? Yes. It did? Yes. Yes. Oh my God. I love Luke so much. So Luke, we met on Tinder and he was, and for anyone who's listening, who's like, yeah, Tinder was different then.

30:26Like, no, Tinder was disgusting then. Tinder was the hookup app then just as it is now. Like nobody, it was like disgusting for me to be on Tinder. And it was disgusting for Luke to be on Tinder. But I found, you know, I saw his profile and I was like, he's either never been on a dating app before, because this is so bare bones, or he's a serial killer. And I'm like, I am going to have to take this risk. Right, right. But quickly found out that he was not, or, you know, prayed that he was not a serial killer. I knew he wasn't a serial killer because he was really curious about astrology. And I mean, I guess he could have been the Zodiac killer now that I think about it.

31:01But for me at that moment, it was very disarming because he was one of the first, if not the first man that I had ever started to chat with who did not think that it was a joke and who actually sort of was curious and intrigued by it rather than just, you know, exoticizing it or using it as some sort of like way of making, you know, demeaning me through it in some way, shape or form. Yeah. Like this is a silly. Silly. Yeah. Silly, silly girl. Yeah. How cute. Yeah. Exactly. have to. Exactly. And so, you know, I got his, he was really interested. He was like, oh, I'm, I think I'm a, I'm an Aries sun.

31:40I'm a Virgo moon. I'm a Capricorn rising. I think, does that make us compatible? It does. And I was like, yeah, it does make us compatible. But I still was like, there's no way that he's actually serious and interested in like having a full blown conversation about this beyond that. And on our first date, he was, he wanted to understand it. He was interested. He wanted to understand why I liked it and how it worked and what the system was and how I worked with it and what it meant for us. So then our next date, I came back with like our full charts, which are so electric. I mean, the amount of compatibilities and synchronicities we have in our chart.

32:19And I remember going in being like, if this isn't my husband, like, I don't know if this shit works. Really? Because our charts are so fucking compatible that like it has to be. It has to be. But it's also our second date and I'm coming in. Yeah. And you're like, this is a lot of pressure on these charts on this moment. And he thought it was so interesting and so cool. And he was fascinated by. What does he do for a job? He's a musician. Okay. So he's in the arts also. He's a creative as well. Okay. Have you seen based on your numbers and your birth date, not numbers, based on the time of birth and all that.

32:56Like when you have a question about your life, like, oh, is my career going to go a certain way? Am I going to be making money? Am I going to be making a lot of money? And when you look at your numbers, has it been accurate? Yes. It has. Yeah. Including the stuff that I don't want to be accurate. I was going to say, so like because it's you doing it, right? Like that was my question. Like how often does that happen when you're like, oh shit, this doesn't look really great for what I want to have happen? I mean, you know, we all go, what I love about astrology is that it's cyclical, right? We go through these cycles and we go through these phases and astrology reminds us that nothing lasts forever, which is good and bad, right?

33:35Sometimes we want things to last forever, but they don't. And sometimes we're like, let me get out of this situation and we have an out, right? Yeah. So for example, last year, so I have a daughter, she's 18 months old, so I'm a new mom. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. She's a great daughter. Oh my God. Oh, my God. That's so cute. Yes, it is so cute. I bet you know what time she was born. I do, yes. But obviously that was the mission of everyone in the room at the moment of delivery. So I have lots of documentation of it, pictures of the clocks, everything. That's perfect, yeah. But last year when we started introducing solids to her, she started to have some reactions to them.

34:17She was having some allergy stuff happen, and that was a fear of mine. I don't know why this was a fear of mine, but it was. It was something that I was really scared of, navigating allergies with a baby. And lo and behold, she's having F-Pies, which is like a vomiting reaction to food. She's having hives to peanuts. These things are happening. And lo and behold, in my chart, Saturn, which is the planet of maturity, is on my moon sign, which is about motherhood. And I see very clearly that this transit is taking place in my chart, which is me having to figure out motherhood, me stepping into that role for me, me having to sort of—and Saturn does a lot of hard lessons, right?

35:02It's a tough love planet. So it was this sort of like push to really have to be brave and courageous in this particular area of life. And I knew that at the other side of this transit, when this was over, it was either going to be resolved or it was somehow going to be easier for me. So I use that as sort of my guide and my anchor in this difficult time in our little family unit of figuring out what these allergies were going to be like to know that how I felt in that moment was not going to last forever. And I was going to reach the other side of it and feel better. And both kind of are true.

35:42You know, her allergies are managed right now, and they're not necessarily as bad as I thought they were going to be. And I also feel more equipped to deal with them. I have an EpiPen. So I feel more like I have the tools. And Saturn is all about providing you with the tools. So that was something that I was experiencing in real time as I was sort of navigating this very real life, very embodied, very relatable experience of being a mom and also being an astrologer, working with the system and sort of guiding myself through it. That makes sense. That's good though. It's good to have that experience, that knowledge, and that background, right, to get maybe hone in on information that you otherwise wouldn't even know, right?

36:26So how long did it take you to become like a full-on astrologist? Well, you know, it was this journey, right? This journey of working with the material, keeping it at arm's length, being afraid, sort of doing things that made me adjacent to it, being like, oh, I'm a founder of an app that's astrology, but I'm not an astrologer, you know? Well, because you also, it's interesting because you kind of like poo-poo men who are like kind of you silly girl and don't take it seriously. But you also had hangups about it too. Well, I was a victim of those, of that. Right. But even so, like even, because you didn't want to like, you felt, well, you said earlier, like you kind of felt that you'd be judged.

37:05It sounded kind of wonky. Because I am. Yeah. You know? Yes. I mean, yes, you are. Like I am. So it was, and I didn't know if I could handle it. Yeah. No, I totally understand. So does that mean tarot cards aren't as accurate then, of course, as astrology? Tarot cards are also accurate. How? But if you're just picking something randomly at a moment in time. It's a different system. So tarot is a 78-card system. And what I love about astrology is that the language for it is so complicated. It's so nuanced. So there's so much to pull from. There's so many interpretations. The permutations of what we can see in a chart are really like incalculable, you know?

37:50Tarot is 78 cards. So that's the sort of the language that is working with that number. But there's still infinite number of permutations because you're looking at the cards next to each other and together. And it's another way of telling stories, right? It's another way of being able to sort of use a tool to be able to glean insight and information and wisdom. And whether you're channeling that wisdom from a higher power, from the universe, or from your higher self or your higher consciousness, or you're using it as a mirror to help you understand what you need to know, it works. It is accurate.

38:30I mean, I think that tarot is definitely, it's an easier system to learn. So because of that, I think that there's a lot more trial and error in it. But every system, you know, there's trial and error. So I love tarot. You like tarot.

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40:26Okay, we have to talk about manifestation. Love manifestation. Okay, so this is like kind of like one of these things. You might not like me very much after what I want to say. That's not true. Well, I don't know. It may very well be true. Yeah, let me buckle up. Yeah, yeah, buckle up. No, no, no. I'm not a massive believer in manifestation. I find it to be a little bit, you're going to hate this word, but kind of hokey pokey, woke, like just kind of like, I'm a big believer in action, you know, your hard work and action. That's my entire, like, that's my whole philosophy in life. That's how I've gotten anything in life.

41:01If I, I don't sit there and just hope something to happen and put a vision board up. Like, I think if you want something, you've got to like work for it and you have to like go out there and, you know, do the things to do the hard things over and over again. So when you say manifestation and the idea of just like hoping or thinking, what else do you think? Like what's your whole, what is your philosophy on manifestation? Oh, well, it's not hoping and thinking. I mean, I am in complete agreement with you. Okay. And for any of your listeners who know about astrology, like they know I'm a Capricorn rising.

41:32So like that speaks for itself. Like I am. Why? What does that mean? I'm very serious. Okay. I'm very serious. I'm like, Like I work extremely hard. Yeah. And I, you know. I can tell. You don't seem like the, even the way you speak, it doesn't seem like you're just like this woo-woo type of person. Yeah. No, I mean, inside I am. Right. But my perspective on reality, I mean, everything that I've been able to create in my life, I've worked really, really hard to create. Right. You know, really intentionally. Lots of struggle. Lots of effort. You know, I'm definitely someone who, you know, had a lot of responsibilities way too young in my family.

42:14And that made me someone who is like very intense, you know, about really putting the work in. And I believe in putting the work in. I don't think that anything happens when you're just like passively hoping things are going to change. You know, you have to make the steps to change them. But manifestation is the intentionality around your action. And manifestation is being, is sort of creating these, well, I describe manifestation as this feedback loop between what I call the astral realm, which is the realm of hopes and wishes and dreams. And then also the physical world, which is where we do things to make things happen.

42:56And I believe that when you work with both of these realms, the realm of hoping and wishing and believing and visualizing and creating and sort of setting yourself up for success through your imagination, through your mind's eye, and then you also are moving forward and you're actually working towards a goal in the physical realm, that is when things really, really happen. I also believe that you need to know what you want in order to make things happen. And that is the work of my work. You know, knowing who you are, knowing what you care about, knowing what actually drives you forward is a critical piece of making things happen.

43:37Because we live in a culture that has very specific standards of success, you know, money or cars or now fame and, you know, like recognition, right? And it's easy to sort of like just think that you might want those things and to chase those things because you think that that is what your soul's work is supposed to. Well, I don't think anyone would be thinking that. But if you're thinking that that's what's going to make you happy, let's say that. But that's not what's going to make, you know, that doesn't make everyone happy. That's not fulfilling, right? You have to know why you want the things that you want in order to actually be able to bring them into your life and find fulfillment from them.

44:17So that is the work of manifestation in my practice. Interesting. Okay, so I can just like break this down. So it's about envisioning, thinking, knowing what you want, and then taking steps to get that. Knowing why you want it. Why you want it. Yeah, knowing why you want it. And from an astrological point of view, that's going to where we can use the chart to understand why you want it. You know, we can use the chart to figure out like why your soul is craving it, why your soul came into your body in this lifetime, in this particular experience that you're having and is saying, you know, these are the things that you need to do.

45:00Right. And then when you find that fusion between who you are and what you are bringing into your life, like that's when those green lights start, you know, and that's where things really start clicking and things are actually like flowing. and you get into that state where you feel like you are in alignment. All right. So I'm going to ask you some kind of like pop-cultury fun questions and you can, without having the time of birth or whatever, but things like what card is the money card the most? Like what sign or rising, not rising, are you noticing the people who make the most money? Let's go with that and we'll go from there.

45:40Okay. Well, let me think of how I can answer this as accurately as possible because all signs deserve to have abundance. I would say that the signs that are most stereotypically associated with money are going to be Taurus and Capricorn. Taurus is, they're both earth signs. Taurus is the first earth sign of the zodiac. It's very physical, right? It wants what it wants and it wants to have the things that it wants. And then Capricorn is like the hustler. Capricorn is like the businessman, monopoly man. Like, yeah, yeah. Like it's, you know, but also in the context of like our late stage capital world, you know, it's easy to sort of like typecast Capricorn as being, I mean, Jeff Bezos is a Capricorn, but it's easy to sort of like associate that.

46:29Capricorn is also has a lot of spiritual depth to it. But yeah, I mean, Capricorn is sort of thought of as like the, the entrepreneur. I should ask you, Donald Trump, right? Our president. Do you know his chart? Of course. Like the back of my fucking hand. Okay. So based on what you know, tell us, does it fit him or does it suit him to a T that he is the way he is? Yes. Donald Trump is a Gemini sun. He is a Leo rising and he has a Sagittarius moon. He was also born on an eclipse, on a lunar eclipse. So yeah, I mean, Donald Trump is definitely the perfect manifestation of his birth chart. He is truly, truly his birth chart to a T.

47:13That doesn't mean that every Gemini sun, Sagittarius moon, Leo rising is Donald Trump because a chart is nature and nurture. but being born into the circumstances that he was born into and having the chart that he has, it's the most literal chart you can ask for. It's crazy. I mean, yeah, Gemini's in general, you know, they love to throw spaghetti at the wall and it's an air sign known to be the twins. So there's a duality around it, but there's also just sort of, you know, they love to say shit. They love to just like stir the pot and that's kind of what riles them up. Like they enjoy the process of kind of like saying things, nothing's too serious.

47:56We'll see how it lands. Like lighten up, have a sense of humor. You know, that's the Gemini motto. Sagittarius moon is the emotional world. It's the opposite sign of Gemini. So it's kind of the big philosopher, the big thinking about things. And it's a storyteller. So this is a chart that gets really electrified through stories, through ideas, through concepts. And one of the reasons I think that he surrounds himself with these sort of like pseudo philosophers is because he really is intrigued by that. That really lights him up. And then last but not least, we have a Leo rising, right? Leo is a fire sign that is known as it's the lion.

48:36It's sort of zodiac royalty, right? It is sort of, you know, it sees it's ruled by the sun. So it sees itself as the epicenter of the universe. So a Leo rising means that Donald Trump is the main character of his reality, like for life. And apparently all of ours too, because this guy is just won't go away. So we're all, it's, we're living in Donald Trump's Leo rising reality. Yeah. So it's accurate, basically. It's very accurate. How about Elon Musk? Elon's chart, I think that we don't have like the most accurate time of birth. I've been given a few different times, but he's a cancer son and he does have a lot of Gemini in his chart as well.

49:20So the cancer son in his chart definitely is like a really great, I mean, that's like a very stereotypical chart of someone who loves to procreate. You got that one, right? Yeah. The Octomom, also a cancer son. Really? Yeah. So who else is a cancer son? A lot of people who don't have kids also. You know, there's a lot of people who are not making like billions of children who are cancer sons, but that is, you know, cancer is associated with like motherhood and children. So it is kind of like a funny, a funny astrologer bit for Elon that he is a cancer who loves babies. Wow. Kind of. I mean, I don't know if he loves babies.

49:59By the way, I found out my kid's birthday is around, is 1015. Do you want to do it now? Sure. Okay. So it's 1015, not like - You know it for a fact. Listen, as much as I'm going to know right now, so - So 1015 AM? 1015 AM. And it's Capricorn 2013. Yeah. So this very much changes the chart. January. I have January 15th, 2013 at 10, 15 a.m. Okay. So Dylan is a Capricorn sun, an Aries rising. If this is an accurate time, but it's right on an edge. He's a one degree Aries sun. So if he was born a little bit earlier, it's going to change. Really? Like a minute earlier? Yeah. In this case, if it was four minutes earlier.

50:49Yeah. So let's table that rising, but I can tell you that he is a Pisces moon. This, based on this, I can tell you that he has a lot of sensitivity in his life, in his personhood. And even though he's a Capricorn rising, he also has his Mercury conjunct his sun. You know, it's, we actually have solar charts potentially, but you know, it's important for him to be taken seriously. It's important for him to be heard and respected and recognized and have his opinions valued and validated. But there is an inner world in your son that is very spiritual and very sensitive and really very curious, I would imagine, about grandparents and ancestors and where he comes from.

51:36And part of that is also trying to figure out what is the sensitivity that I have. He's very sensitive. Yeah. This gentleness within him. He's a very kind boy. Yeah. He does bullying, like that, like really deeply disturbs him and upsets him. It's something that is like, you know, he feels on a really deep level. Wow. That's pretty accurate, actually. Even if it was - And it could be more accurate if we know - Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So based on my birthday, I want to, because how, not like, are we compatible? Not like - How are you compatible? Yeah. So, um, so yeah, I mean, actually there's something interesting with your charts, which is, as I mentioned, you're an Aquarius moon.

52:17His Mars is an Aquarius in his chart. You guys both are, have like an activist piece of you. And there is a part of you that feels like, you know, part, the part of you that wants to make the world a better place. Like that also speaks to him as well. And it does. Yes. I don't see it yet. Well, he's a kid. He's 12. Yes, he is. But the sensitivity, I mean, he's a very liked kid. Like everyone loves him because he's very, he feels other people. It's very empathetic is the word I was looking for. Yes. And how are you describing an activist? What is your concept of that? Like basically wants to change the world for good or wants to like speak out when people are being bullied.

53:02Yeah. Is that kind of? Yeah. Or like, or give information, kind of like be like a voice of, you know, I don't know how, the way I look at it as an activist, someone who goes out there and like protests about something. Yeah, not necessarily that. You know, you don't need to be like on the front line. The picket. You don't need, yes. That's not, that's not the way I'm thinking of an activist. Okay. I'm thinking of an activist as someone who wants to do the right thing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's him for sure. Yeah. Okay, I like that. I wish I knew my daughters. This is so embarrassing. Well, what, you know, when's her birthday?

53:38Her birthday is March 23rd. So she's an Aries. Yeah, 2015. Cool. Yeah. So we could dabble? I think her birth, and she was born around 536. Okay. I'm not going to put anything in. What's her name? Sydney. And also California. Also LA. Yeah, LA, yeah. Santa Monica. And you said March 23rd and she's the 2015, right? Yes. So I'm not going to put in a birth time, but we can see, okay, different than your son. More Taurus in her chart. She was actually born, interestingly, not far after a solar eclipse, which is kind of cool. But the main difference with her chart and your son's chart is that she sort of wants, like she's nourished by her comforts.

54:30You know, for her, it's like, what's my cozy, like, how do I get cozy? How do I feel good? Like, I don't want to deal with, I don't want to have to, I want to like turn my brain off and relax and not have to like think too much about these things in order to find her regulation. Your son can really go into these like emotional spaces. Your daughter is kind of, you know, your daughter is able to, well, she has a temper with the Aries son, of course, but the way that she emotionally regulates is by being like, okay, I just need like my comfort food. I want my TV that I like. I want to just feel like I'm bad.

55:05I like want to recenter myself and ground myself with what brings me peace. Are they a good, are they compatible? Of course. Everyone is compatible. Okay. I know. I'm saying, are they compatible based on your chart? I, without knowing her rising sign, it's really tricky. I'm, this is like a very rudimentary reading of it because I'm going to get you the proper. Yes. Because she could have her moon in like the most emotional area of her chart. In which case of what I'm saying, it's like actually kind of like take it all with a grain of salt. Totally. But with a Taurus moon, I mean, she loves you.

55:40She loves her mommy so much. She does. Yeah. Could have fooled me. I'm joking. And she loves the stability. She loves stability. Really? Yeah. And Dylan doesn't? Dylan can hang in like more nebulous. Dylan can, you know, he's kind of, he can float. This is so interesting. Thank you, by the way, for even giving me that. Oh, yes. Well, what do you think? I think you're spot on with Dylan's sensitivity. Sydney also spot, like there's a very few, there's particular characteristics about Sydney that you didn't say, but that could be because you don't have herself. I don't want to say too much. Why?

56:16Because I don't know her time. Yeah, I know. She is like a force of nature. I don't know if you saw that in there. Well, being born right next to a solar eclipse in Aries is definitely a force. And she's like competitive and she's like a dancer and anyway. But that's why I want to get you accuracy because it feels not accurate. I want to know the accuracy, right? But no, but I actually, I appreciate all of it because I love all this stuff. So like, even if it's not like completely spot on, that's my fault. That's my fault. But I want to like, for the record, like - No, it's my fault. I don't have the right information.

56:52I know, but I'm going to get it for you. Yes, get it for me. And then I'm going to do a recap on this. Because with your daughter's chart, like for one, her being born by a solar eclipse in Aries is absolutely a big deal. Like that's eclipses. As I mentioned, Donald Trump born by an eclipse, you know, like eclipses. are these dramatic experiences. So when you're born near one or on one, it's like you have that sort of high highs and low lows are embedded into your DNA. It's a big deal. But because we don't know where it is in her chart, I can't tell you if that shows up in her creativity or if it shows up in her - Of course not.

57:30Don't even have to explain yourself. It's my fault. You said to me, I'm not reading your chart, Jennifer, because I don't have the thing. I totally get it. Did your mom ever call back? No, I keep on looking at my phone because she didn't, unfortunately. But I'm going to call you and I'll let you. You have my number. Will you promise to do it for me? I promise. Okay. Thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. You know what? We didn't even do our magic mind shot. I was so like, I was so like interested in starting. I didn't even do it. So normally we do these things when we do this, we do the shot right before we do our podcast because we want to keep our guests and me as focused and as alert as possible.

58:07And there's like, it's just all like ashwagandha, lion's mane, like very like, it's all like for your brain. I love it. The tropics. And this one has no caffeine. So now this is, they just came out with this caffeine free. And I wanted to actually get your, so take it. And then what you can do is let me know for your next podcast, how alert you are. Oh yeah. Yes. Okay. Good. Thank you. Cause I'm not going to, I'm scared. Oh, who is she? Yeah. Good. Right. Wow. What a zing. I told you, it was amazing. I wasn't just saying it. By the way, I don't just like yap and promote stuff that's just kind of whatever.

58:43It has like a cayenne quality without being cayenne. I don't have my glasses on or else I would tell you every ingredient. But basically, I know there's ashwagandha in there. I know that there's, I think there's, hold on, turmeric in there. I know that. Lion's mane. This one has no caffeine. It's tropical, floral. It's very good. Yeah. I could give you a few to take home. I will. I will take them. They're delicious. This is caffeine free. Take mine as well. All right. So the book is called It's All Magic, 365 Reflections on Astrology, Tarot and Manifestation by Eliza Kelly. Nope. Aliza. Oh, damn.

59:21Aliza Kelly. Also, follow her on Instagram. What's your Instagram? Eliza Kelly. Yeah. Easy. Okay. Surprise. You said just like a Biza, but I guess I forgot. See, if I would have taken that magic one, I would have been way more sharp. But thanks for being on the show. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.