Episode 485: Dr. Josh Axe: Why Your Healthy Smoothie is Making You Sick (And What Actually Heals)

23:38In Chinese medicine, hypothyroidism is called a qi and yang deficiency. To translate that into Western medicine, that is a mitochondrial deficiency. Okay. Combined with lack of being anabolic and being able to regenerate your tissues. And so what that looks like is certain foods are really going to help that. So rather than smoothies and salads, you should be doing soups and teas. Exactly. I mean, really, like chicken, vegetable soup. Things are warming and hearty. Pumpkin, butternut squash, sweet potato, lots of cinnamon, loads of ginger, really warming up your system. Again, warm teas between meals.

24:11I mean, I've had so many women who have come to me on Synthroid, Levothyroxine, Hypothyroid medications, and they're totally off them now, even though they thought they would have to be. Many of them came on thinking they would have to be on the drugs the rest of their life, and they're off them. Because when you can really help address the exact root of why somebody's sick in the first place, people heal. Do you think that women are eating these things and drinking these things because psychologically they think it's going to keep them thin or it's healthy for them, right? Like that's kind of like the number that social media has done, right?

24:43Like we think, oh, we're having our nice fruit smoothie. To me, it's all sugar and there's not enough anything in it, right? Like it just goes right through me. Is it like a re-education that needs to happen? Or what is the way around this to get women to realize that this is what's happening? Yeah, I think it's all because of trends. Yeah, don't trend. I mean, the reality is this. We see this with diets, right? You had, you know, the vegan diet was very popular. Not with me. And then you had the paleo diet was very popular. Then you had the keto diet, which was very popular. And so, yeah, people start to jump on these wagons.

25:18But Chinese medicine has never changed, neither is Ayurveda. Right. You should be eating based on your unique composition, what's going on in your body, and eat a diet based on that. And for a lot of people today, women especially, they need to really warm their internal system. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about the paleo and the keto. because I was under the understanding that you were a big fan of paleo. No? No, I've actually always kind of—here's the reality. I am for whatever is best for the individual, that individual in front of me. And in the paleo diet, I've really never been a paleo person.

25:51Oh, I thought that's what—maybe I just thought that it may— No, in fact, one of the things we talk about in the paleo diet is we sort of cover what's the difference between a biblical diet versus a paleo. Paleo is based on evolution. I'm not an evolutionist. And so I'm much more of a creationist in terms of my belief system. And so it's never really lined up for me. The other thing is there's always been this sort of confusion in the paleo community of what a paleo diet is. For instance, I remember when I first got introduced to paleo diet, it was like, eat a lot of raw nuts. And they're like, but then on the other side, they're like, well, don't eat grains because the phytic acid.

26:27And I'm like, you're telling me that raw nuts? nuts don't have loads of phytic acid. It just was so incoherent. I think you're right. I don't think people really, I think a lot of people are confused what it means. Like I think when I think about it, I think it's a lot of nuts and meat. That's what I think too. Yeah. Well, and the other thing is, and by the way, can somebody eat a paleodent for some people, they thrive on it? Yeah. Like I'll give you an example, like Mark Sisson. Yeah. Mark Sisson. Is a friend of mine. Me too. He moved to Nashville recently. And so I just saw him in the gym last week.

27:00I love Mark Sisson. You know, I was telling someone the other day, I said, Mark's in his 70s. I don't know another person in their 70s who's as healthy as Mark. Oh, by the way, have you seen him? He's got like a nine pack. Have you seen him? He's like not for real though. Like that's like genetics at some point. Oh, listen, there's an element of genetics. There always is. But again, he's the healthiest person in their 70s I know. And athletic. In his 70s, he's playing running. running, playing Frisbee. I mean, he's, you know, and I know some other people that are in their 60s, 70s, Jill's LaMarche.

27:34I mean, my dad's 75, water skis every day, weight lifts, very fit. So there are other people out there, but Mark is, Mark to me is, so in my point there is, he thrives on doing more of this primal diet that is really inspired by more of the paleo. It works for him. Yeah. And he does great with it. But I think that, you know, the other thing is, okay, you're on a paleo diet. You're telling me that cavemen were running around like milking cows and drinking dairy. So it's like, so if somebody is on a true paleo diet and they're doing a lot of raw nuts, I mean, it's one thing you have a walnut fall from a tree, you have a couple, but baking, like using, you know, almond flour and, and, and dairy.

28:14Exactly. That's not, you know, the meat fruit, you know, the meat and fruit primarily diet. Okay. You know, I get that. But I, and I totally know what you're saying. I mean, I I'm still like, like, like to your point, I was a little bit confused by that. But then I saw your whole thing about the Biblio diet, and when I was going through it, and it says things like don't eat pork, don't eat seafood. Not shellfish. Sorry, sorry, shellfish. You know what it sounded like to me? It sounds like the kosher diet. Because kosher is not eating pork, not eating filthy animals, right? Not having shellfish because it's dirty.

28:50It's like bottom feeders. How is the Biblio diet different than the kosher diet? Yeah, that's a great question. So I would say, one, the only people I know that follow the kosher diet is a very small group of people, and it's people that are Jewish. Yes, I'm Jewish. And amazing. And I've talked to you about Jordan Rubin, my best friend, business partner. He's Jewish as well, and he co-authored the book with me. And so, you know, a kosher, here's what I would say is a kosher diet, it kind of, you know, we're reading with both the Old Testament and the New Testament in mind. We're writing this book with those things in mind.

29:24And so, but there will be a fair amount of overlap. But I would also say we go a little bit further in that, like, I've got another really close friend of mine who's an Orthodox Jew and working on becoming a rabbi right now. And he eats things that are kosher, but he doesn't care if they're organic, doesn't care if they are ultra processed. I mean, none of that matters. Trust me, I know it's a problem, actually. Okay. Yeah, no, no, no. This is one of the big arguments in my household, with my family, because I'd rather have organic, grass-fed, all the things that you're going to say. But a lot of Jewish, kosher, and Orthodox people, they would eat a lot of very processed foods, not organic foods, like shitty food, to be honest, but yet they refuse to have a lobster or a shrimp.

30:11Like, to me, that's like completely counterintuitive. Yeah, so, and let me say this. The one thing that I think they're totally correct in is this, from an animal standpoint. I think that biblical kosher slaughter methods do matter to the health of the animal. Yeah. You know, I think that matters a lot. You know, I think that there's evidence on the way you slaughter the animal and the amount of stress hormones that are released that are then going to go into the meat tissue. I mean, I think that's a real problem. But I would say it's different, again, in the light of the New Testament there as well, in terms of, as a Christian for me, and in authoring the Biblio diet, I don't believe that eating pork and shellfish is a sin in the same way that it was during the Old Testament period.

30:57I do believe, though, that God didn't just say, just for the heck of it, don't eat pork and shellfish. And modern science proves this today. I mean, when you look at pork, it is the greatest carrier of parasites of all animals. I mean, so more people get parasitic infections, I think, from eating pork than probably any other food. People are like, well, what if it's really, really well cooked? Like, I had a cousin who killed a wild boar, froze the meat, made it into sausage, cooked it really well, and ended up getting like a terrible parasite infection from that meat. And I know this with a lot of people.

31:30So the reality is, is that pork is the dirtiest land animal. I mean, listen, it's documented. Like, they eat their own crap. Their scavengers don't eat anything. Their digestive systems, they have a monochamber, similar to humans. And they store toxins, their bodies, versus cows. I mean, they take some 24 hours to digest. They have a monochamber digestive system. They are much better at cleansing toxins out of their tissues. So ruminant animals like cows, lamb, goats, much, much healthier for us than pork. And then, I mean, people can look this up. What is the dirtiest food in the sea? It's shrimp.

32:07I mean, go and just do a Google search or chat GTP. It'll tell you the level of dioxin. So it's even documented today that pork and shellfish are very, very toxic meat products. So the Bible is completely right in that. And so, again, I think that there's definitely some overlap. But I think the Biblio diet goes a step beyond kosher in terms of, is it organic? Is it pasture-raised? Looking at all those fine details. because one, we're called to be good stewards over the animals. They should have lots of sunlight. They should be drinking spring water. They should be grass-fed year-round, and they should be slaughtered biblically.

32:41I mean, I believe all those things are important to stewardship and the health of us. One of the things we wrote about in the book was, there's this principle, you are what you eat. But really, it's you are what you eat what they ate, and not just ate, their entire lifestyle. Like I was writing, one of the things that we discovered was, and you already know this probably, but if a cow eats grass, they have more omega-3s in their diet, right? In their tissues. So that's why you want to do grass-fed meat. But they also have more amino acids per calorie. They also have different amino acid ratios.

33:15They have more carnosine. They have more creatine. They have more taurine. They have more vitamin E. So, I mean, it's a really big deal. And even the sun matters how much sun they get. So there is a lot of evidence that eating animals the right way is pretty darn important. So anyways, the Biblio data would say there's some overlap with kosher, but it really goes a step beyond of making sure that foods are also in alignment with God's design. So would you say that grass-fed is more important than organic? It's an impossible question for me to answer because— If you had to pick one. You know, I would probably say to me, I'm going to bet more on grass-fed than organic.

34:00Because of that reason? Because the percentage in which I think that when I'm shopping at a local farmer's market and it doesn't use the term organic, but knowing those farmers probably use less pesticides on their feed or no pesticides at all, it's just a gamble I'm taking. It's not a good answer. and also thinking about, okay, what's my bigger problem? Am I overburdened with toxins? Is that a bigger issue for me? Or am I more inflamed and I have more of an issue of certain nutritional deficiencies? So it's a toxicity deficiency sort of decision. So why is shrimp so expensive then if it's the most disgustingly dirty thing in the world and yet it's the most expensive thing to eat besides lobster?

34:43I'm guessing because it tastes good. It tastes good, but it's not like it's that rare. You can find shrimp and they're dirty, but yet it's a delicacy. It's considered a delicacy. Do you eat it or nothing? You won't eat it? No, I haven't eaten it for 20 years. I think the last time I had it, I was probably 19. I'm 44, 25 years. Oh, wow. Okay, so then, yeah. Okay, so wait, I want to ask you more questions about the Biblio. Okay, so what are the superfoods of the Biblio diet? Yeah, yeah, so there are several. I would say, well, let me hit on the ones that fly in the face of sort of modern culture today.

35:21Bread. Yes. Red meat, salt, and raw dairy. So bread in particular, now let me say this. Would I call it a superfood? You know, that's not one we really labeled a superfood in the book, but it's one that we said most people can tolerate well if it's done right. Let me just say this. Bread has got a bad rap because most diets today, or almost all bread today is just bad bread. It's from hybridized grain. It's then been stripped of the bran, so there's no fiber. You're not absorbing nutrients. It's been fortified with synthetic vitamins that are probably not even good for you. And so there's all these issues with it.

36:02If you think about the way that Jesus, or when we read about any of these sort of ancient people that were eating bread, the way that it was likely done via, and I've read this in terms of the historians and what they were saying, the way the bread was done, they would have harvested it. They would have then soaked it and laid it out to dry in the sun. That's gonna, it's a process called sprouting. They would have then taken it and grounded up, stone ground it. And then they would have made it, fermented it and made it into bread. And this is not wheat bread with caramel color or white bread or anything else.

36:35This was ancient grains, typically wheat, barley, and rye, and the ancient grain, maybe it would have been einkorn. There's a lot of other ancient wheats, by the way, as well. And this would have been turned into a sourdough bread. And when you soak it like that or ferment it, you're killing off all the phytic acid, which is known as a mineral binder. This is why when you're eating regular bread today, you're absorbing almost no nutrients. Because even the nutrients that are there, even though they're deficient, they're bound in a mineral binder, phytic acid. So you're like getting 10 % of it, when you sprout or ferment, unlock all the nutrients, and now you're absorbing all of it.

37:08So some of these grains, like rye and barley in particular, I mean, they have good nutritional value, especially when they're fermented. So we know when they're talking about bread in the Bible, it was pretty much all sourdough bread for the most part, or a good majority of it, or it was sprouted. And so that was a pretty good food at the time. What about people like today, right? A lot of people don't have time to make their own sourdough bread, right? Or are you assuming that they will? I don't know. Are you just saying to be much more conscientious of when you buy a bread to make sure it doesn't have all of these, like the over-processed, the ultra-processed breads, like buy it from a good provider, basically?

37:50What I'm saying is, by the way, I'm not endorsing bread. Just so you know, I am saying that bread is not a villain. And if you're going to eat bread, eat sourdough from ancient grains. That's what I find interesting because I never hear about sourdough. You hear eat multigrain, no, whole wheat bread, sprouted bread, any kind of grain bread. But I've never really heard sprouted. I've never heard of sourdough bread as one of those. Well, you don't live in the South. So if you lived in Nashville, and some people will struggle with this, but there are, like my wife's been making sourdough for about three, four years now.

38:27A friend of her, Carrie Underwood, she started making it and Chelsea was talking to her. And so she ended up making that. There are a lot of homesteaders in the South. And if, listen, if you're on this podcast or YouTube or social media listening to this and you make it, you know, I'd like to hear from you here, but there are so many, I mean, you'd be shocked at how many women now are making sourdough bread at home. You'd be shocked. So let me just say, it's actually more prevalent than you probably realized, but you could go to Air One or Whole Foods Market. I said Air One, nobody's going to Air One hardly.

38:55Okay, listen, please. But you can go to Sprouts. You can go to Public, potentially. There's a brand called Rudy's that has sourdough spelt. There are a lot of local bakeries. I mean, all over Tennessee. You don't have to be in Nashville. You could be in Memphis or Knoxville or all kinds of places and buy it at local bakeries. So you can find it today probably more easily than you think. I guess you could also just buy a bread maker, like you said, and just make your own. It's probably not, it's like not that difficult. It's just, you know. Well, it's like anything. It's incredibly difficult the first time.

39:26And then after that, it's incredibly easy. That's right. Exactly. Okay. So talk about other ones that you were saying. Yeah. The red meat, the raw milk though, again, not so common, right? What's the difference between buying organic milk and raw milk? I would say the only food that there's a bigger difference of today versus in the past than bread is milk. I mean, historically, if you think about the way that milk is probably consumed, it was raw, completely organic, and in many, many cases fermented. And the genetics of the cows were actually different. So today, with Holstein cows, they have a type of casein, which is similar protein to gluten that's in milk, that tends to be more inflammatory to people.

40:13And it's called A1 casein. Sheep and goats, and human milk actually too, it's all A2 casein predominantly. And this sort of protein is easier to digest, doesn't cause the same levels of inflammation. Sometimes when we were doing genetic modification, or I would call breeding, there was a genetic variant. You know how a lot of people today have MTHFR? Yes. Gene mute? Yeah. Well, imagine something like that happened, but in the proteins that were created, a gene variant in Holstein cows. And then that was passed on to jerseys and a certain other of a lot of our modern day Western cows today. And that protein is very inflammatory to people like gluten is.

40:52And this is why if you buy, some people have noticed, oh, when I eat goat's milk or sheep's milk, I don't have allergies versus cow's milk I do. It's typically not the fact that it's cow's milk. It's typically the fact that that type of cow has A1 casein, which is almost all cow's milk today. So people can buy today A2 dairy, which has the right genetic components in terms of the protein. So that's important. That's a big one. The other one is if milk is pasteurized, you're heating it up. You're killing all the enzymes and all the bacteria. The bacteria are 99.9999999 % of the time good bacteria that you need for digestion.

41:32And the enzymes you have to have, like lactose to even break down or lactase to break down lactose. So all that being said, that's really important too, to not have it pasteurized. And then homogenization is a whole nother thing where you are destabilizing and denaturing the fats, causing issues there. So that's very unhealthy. So, you know, Jordan Rubin, I mentioned him before. He cured himself of ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. And almost the only thing he ate for 40 days was raw goat's milk kefir. And people would say, oh, if you have a digestive issue, don't drink milk or don't have dairy.

42:11It's almost the only thing he ate. And he cured himself from inflammatory bowel disease. So now he did a few other things too. What were the other few other things he did? Because that would make a difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll share, yeah. Yeah, tell me what else he did. Because this is the same guy who I saw when I was researching you who said that he cured himself of cancer by praying, right? By having prayer. And this is all part of what we cover in the book, the Biblio diet. So the number one food he consumed was fermented dairy. He consumed carrot juice. He consumed some fruit, like blueberries and figs.

42:43And he did a little bit of red meat. It was raw, though. It was raw beef, carpaccio, and then salmon. And that's predominantly what he ate. For 40 days? Mm-hmm. And he spent every day and night praying for healing. And he ended up 40 days reversing his ulcer of cladis and Crohn's. When was this? 1999-ish. Oh, wow. Oh, a long time ago. Oh, wow. It never came back? No, no, no. I mean, he wrote a book called The Maker's Diet, and then he founded Garden of Life with all of this. Oh, so it happened before all of that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This happened. He was a friend. Actually, a little bit about Jordan.

43:18Jordan was at Florida State University. He was a male cheerleader. And I mean - He was? Yeah. And so male cheerleaders, somebody might feel like that. You've got to be pretty big and strong to be a male cheerleader. Do you ever? Yeah. Yeah, so he was a big, strong guy, and he ended up losing. I want to say it was like, I mean, he was over 200 pounds, lost like 80 pounds. I mean, you should see, he looked like a skeleton. I mean, literally, like he was, I mean, almost died. Was very, very sick. And so here's what happened. This is crazy. So he had a man call him, and this is after he'd gone to Germany and Switzerland.

43:52I mean, he was going everywhere trying to find a way to heal. Went to conventional medicine, got put on antibiotics, all kinds of things. And he had a man hear about him, called his father. His father was a chiropractor. This other guy was a chiropractor and a naturopathic physician. And he called Jordan's dad and he said, listen, I know a way to help your son heal. He said, if he follows a diet based on the Bible, he will heal. And Jordan was living in West Palm Beach at the time. This man lived in San Diego, California. And he said, have him come out and live with me. And I'll show him exactly how to eat, how to do it, and what to do to heal.

44:27Jordan ran in an RV, went out, moved to California, just lived in an RV, followed this protocol, and completely cured his Crohn's and colitis. And that's then what inspired him in natural health. He started working at a health food store, learned about supplements when he was working as a clerk and just answering questions in a health food store. Then he started selling supplements, started with one product because he did these probiotics that helped him heal. And anyway, so I could keep going. But overall, he started Garden of Life, yeah. You know what's so interesting? Maybe you can explain this.

44:59In the Jewish world, colitis and... Crohn's. Crohn's are pretty prevalent. Growing up, I had a bunch of friends, males, not so many females. Yeah, I was going to ask you, why is colitis and Crohn's so prevalent in the Jewish community? The reason is that Crohn's and colitis are tied to grief. Something has happened in the past that still bothers you today. Really? Mm-hmm. So think about it. I mean, I don't need to tell you this as somebody who's Jewish. I mean, think about your past. Think about the Holocaust. Think about all of the injustice that's done to your people. I mean, so the colon and the lower digestive tract, and this is, now I'm talking about Chinese medicine, their view, or even German new medicine believes a similar thing, but it's that when you've had something happen in the past, and it's still living with you today in the form of you're seeing it as it being something that's harming you or you're a victim in that way, it absolutely destroys your lower digestive system.

46:00That's really interesting. It has to be subconscious because these are kids when they got it. Of course, yes, of course. Was it passed down from their parents' anxiety or unknown anxiety or sadness? Well, listen, I think there's an epigenetic component, so I think that can be passed down. But listen, the parent's disposition will directly impact the child's disposition. So, I mean, if your parent is very negative, one or two things happen. More often, that child stays negative. or they decide to use it for good and they go completely in the other direction. That's so true, right? You got the pendulum swings the other direction for sure.

46:40So this is, so he then, tell us the story about him and his cancer then because years later, yeah. So here's what happened. So Jordan Rubin, this was about 15 years ago. Yeah, 14 or 15 years ago, was diagnosed with testicular cancer. And he went into me, and this is the crazy part was, this is in the middle of when he was growing Garden of Life. So nobody knew this this whole time. And the doctor told him, Jordan, I know who you are. If you don't do chemotherapy like I'm recommending, you will die in three months. Like, it's a death sentence. You are 100 % dead. Told him that. Jordan got on his hands and knees and quoted Job when he left the room.

47:16And he said, naked I came into this world, naked I will leave. You know, the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. And so this is a verse in the book of Job. And Jordan said, I knew that God was calling me to follow a Biblio diet, a plan of healing in the same way. So Jordan then started doing, his diet was similar. It was basically raw dairy, avocado, raw coconut cream. It was mostly fat. It was pretty ketogenic. A lot of salmon cerveza, green vegetable juices. That was pretty much his whole diet. And daily praying, he had people placing their hands on him, praying for healing, anointing his head with essential oils.

47:55I mean, it was whole on protocol for 40 days, and he healed completely. Now, let me mention why he got testicular cancer, though. He had a distended testicle, and it was actually not—like, you couldn't see his testicle. Like, it was in the wrong place in his body. And so the doctors, when he was an infant, said, we may want to do surgery here. And his dad said, I don't want to do that surgery. And so he didn't. But, like, if you don't have that surgery, your chance of getting cancer goes up, like, over—it's like 1 ,000%. Wow. So his chance of getting cancer was incredibly high due to— The fact that it was descended from his kid.

48:31And then he basically healed himself. Or as he would say, or I would say, God healed him. And I think there's a distinction there in terms of following God's guidance and influence, right, in terms of—and praying daily for healing. I mean, we believe that something supernatural happens with prayer. I think prayer is effective. It matters. You know, with my mom, we followed a whole protocol, but we were praying daily. She was meditating on Bible verses daily. So I personally believe that while we have free will, God is intervening in our lives constantly, especially if we ask him to. So basically, there's a huge, like you were saying, a huge spiritual component to the Biblio diet.

49:14Yeah.

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50:56So let's talk about, I want to have us a bunch of things. I want to talk about anxiety. Yeah. And some natural alternatives to SSRIs that you talk about. Yeah. Right? Because I feel like we're in a world right now where everybody is now just easily put on some antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. Girls in high school and college. Earlier now. I mean, it's so early. Earlier now. It's heartbreaking. I mean, I'll be shunned again by saying this, but I know people who are like my kid's age, who are like 10, 11, 12 years old, and their parents are putting them on Adderall and putting them on anti-anxiety, antidepressants.

51:37I'm like, how the hell do you know if your kid's depressed at 11 years old? And I get pushback all the time. So it's a real, I think that is the new pandemic that we're facing in the world. I talk about this regularly. When I first opened my functional medicine practice, the fastest growing conditions were childhood obesity, childhood diabetes, again, hypothyroidism, testosterone levels being a problem, all those things. today over the last five to seven years, mental health disorders, depression, anxiety, that's definitely the identity issues, the fastest growing problems. That's the fastest growing.

52:12Do you think it's, and I want to be careful how I say this, but do you think a lot of this is just self-induced? Do you think it's because of social media that people are just labeling themselves quicker with like anxiety issues and all these mental health issues? Or do you really think it's a symptom of a bigger problem that's happening? I think it's all those things. So let me head on three ideas around that. One is, it's a misdiagnosis in terms of ADHD. So I was the child who was prescribed Ritalin when I was younger than Adderall in college. Took it for three days. I felt like a zombie. I'm like, something's not right here.

52:49I'm not going to stay on this. And here's the thing. Are we supposed to take boys and just shove them in a classroom for eight hours and say, just sit there and don't move. Exactly. This craziness. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, that's documented so many people that you would say like Einstein, like, oh, he has ADHD. Yeah, it's just, so overall, I mean, it's what we're doing in terms of just prescribing drugs for things. They never fix their, that's something I don't think people fully have grasped yet. A drug cannot heal you. A drug has never reversed hypothyroidism. It's never reversed autoimmune disease.

53:23It's never reversed heart disease. Yes, your numbers change, but the root of what's actually happening has never fully fixed. So I do think that there is a problem of, one, we're treating it completely wrong. I do think some of it's not even real to the point, or at least the way we think it is. And then the other thing I would say is, I think that if somebody feels sad, that's normal. Sometimes you should feel sad. Sometimes you should be down. So sometimes we're drugging things that are minor, that are just part of life that we should never. And then, but to then continue with this, because we become less religious, we have more identity issues.

54:00We have less purpose in life. I mean, think about like, I'll just share this for myself. As a Christian, I believe that I am called to love people, love God, make earth a heavenly place. I believe that I'm called to take the Garden of Eden and make the entire world a Garden of Eden. I have so a sense of like, when I have kids, I have kids right now, like my five-year-old and my two-year-old daughter. For me, I have so much purpose of knowing I'm called to help them live for eternity. I want to find their greatest character qualities and make them more like Christ and grow in character. I want to take their skills.

54:33My daughter just came from swim lessons. My wife was sending me videos, and I'm like, okay, she's really good at swimming. Okay, let's help her do everything she can to get better at that. I have such a sense of purpose and identity of knowing I'm a child of God, and I'm going to live for eternity. So like that just fuels me. Now take someone else who doesn't believe there's a God, there's no eternity, there's all this is, there's a level of nihilism there. God, I'm depressed now thinking about it. So when people especially are outside of the Judeo-Christian worldview, there is a lack of purpose and identity there, or if somebody is non-religious and we are living, I mean, the United States specifically is far less religious and spiritual.

55:12And even the Eastern spirituality that people talk about today. Like, here's what meditation is in Eastern world religion. Empty yourself, you know, just think of nothing. Like, that's the whole thing. No, the Judeo-Christian view is, no, fill yourself with the Spirit of God. Meditate and chew on what is love, what is kindness. How can I—like, you're actually filling yourself with something. Oh, I understand. So you're saying, like, it's a very—it's on trend and popular to sit in meditation. and not think of anything, like to basically like have zero thoughts. Clear your mind. Yeah, zero thought.

55:49I mean, the Buddha did that. So, I mean, that's the, you know, part of where it's coming from. So, but yeah. But you're saying the Judeo-Christian is the way of like having like these positive, good energy life thoughts that actually help nourish you. And it's way more beneficial. Yeah, like on the flight here, I was reading the book of Joshua, you know, and very early on. That's easy reading for the plane. Well, yeah, I mean, I like to read my Bible. So I was reading it, and I was reading, and basically God is telling Joshua, like, do not be terrified, do not be discouraged. And one of the things he tells him is he said, meditate on my word day and night, then you will be prosperous and successful.

56:28He's telling you, I want you to meditate. What do we want to meditate on? My word. On the Psalms, on the Proverbs, on the, you know, on the, well, then it would have been more the Torah, right? But like, Genesis, like, meditate on my words day and night. So it's not meditating on nothing. It's definitely meditating on something. On something, yeah. Yeah. So tell me then, for people who are on a lot of these medications, what are some natural alternatives for them? Yeah. Well, number one thing people need to do is find identity and purpose. That's a good one. It's the single biggest thing people are missing today.

57:03And so I would say find your—and the way you build identity is you do it by attaching yourself to something or someone and finding your role. Okay. So, you know, people do this a lot of times. If they don't have a religion, they'll do it with politics or some social movement or something like that. But you want to find the most, yeah. So you want to find your identity and purpose. The other thing I would say you want to do is you want to just live by God's design. When the sun goes down, start getting ready for bed. When it comes up, start getting outside. spend more time outside. Vitamin D is good.

57:39Move. If you're not moving, it's going to affect your neurotransmitters. So overall, have really good daily habits, walking outside, exercising outside. We're meant to be social creatures. I mean, we are meant to love one another, connect with one another. Like today, what most people do for their meals, I'm going to shovel down breakfast, then lunch. I'm going to be working while I'm eating lunch. I'm getting home at night. Maybe a meeting at 9 p.m. or their soccer practice or whatever. So, you know, sitting down and having deep, intimate conversations with people in front of you, your family, your friends, those sort of things, that's incredibly important.

58:15Sharing your stressors with other people that you can trust. The Bible says, cast your cares on him because he cares for you. Like, you know, spending time in prayer, knowing that God hears it and waiting for that still small voice, that consciousness that you can hear speak back to you. So I think these are the biggest needle movers. Now, in terms of diet, lower carb, higher fat. I mean, it's pretty important. Higher protein, higher fat. I mean, you know, lots of omega-3s, that's been shown in studies. So that's salmon, walnuts, chia seeds. You know, those sort of foods are going to be really good.

58:44So more of the fatty fish, taking an omega-3 supplement. Herbs tend to be pretty good. Saffron, probably the best of all, one of the best. Amazing. I heard that saffron is the, like, kind of the best antidepressant that's natural besides exercise. Agreed. Totally agree. Saffron's amazing. Though I promise it is so expensive. I was going to say, you know how expensive it is? It costs 100 bucks every day. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I would say if you're going to buy it in bulk and buy it in powder form, because that's going to get you the biggest bang for your buck on saffron. Is there research to back this up properly?

59:19What is the actual data on saffron for an antidepressant. Yeah. So the one study, and I want to say it was 88.5 milligrams. I know that because I was formulating a supplement for it based on the clinical study. So it's around 88.5 milligrams. And basically, it was a double-blind study shown to improve mood. By how much, though? You know, I don't have the percentage memorized on saffron in terms of how much it improved mood. But I do know they did have a placebo group. Because to me, the only thing that I've ever had work for me in terms of when I got sad or anxious or whatever, I moved. I went for a walk.

59:59I changed my environment. Yeah, it's huge. To me, that's the number one antidepressant. It works every time. It will always shift your mood, but people just don't want to do it. Yeah, there's also studies on if you're growing in life, it actually gives you a great level of satisfaction and happiness versus if you're not. So like if you feel stuck in life, like you're not moving forward, that's another thing. And that's where it's like commit yourself to learning something. Even if it's not going to pay off tomorrow, something you can really learn and grow towards. Right. It's that personal growth part that makes a big difference.

1:00:37You're a big guy that talks, not a big guy, but you're a guy that talks quite a bit about essential oils. What are the benefits of essential oils? Are there specific ones that people should be focused on that really help with moving the needle in one area and another? Yeah, you know, here's what I'll say. I've done sort of a mix of essential oils based on their historical use and then even some of the modern science today. I think essential oils are great and have a lot of benefits. Again, just with all supplements, including those, unless you're really deficient in something, I don't think they're a miracle or a cure in a lot of cases.

1:01:12But I do think they're a really great part of our daily lives. I think that there are studies on lavender oil for sleep. Yeah. It's really good for that. What do you do with it, though? Do you put it here on your pulse or palm? I tend to put it more to where it's going to get more of my sinuses, so rub it a little bit more in my neck or even under my nose. Oh, okay. So that's where I tend to put it. But so if you're going to use it topically, a 60 milligram dose, which is what is in a lot of the studies, that's about one drop of an essential oil. Okay. So that's for sleep. Lavender is great. I love that one.

1:01:45Yeah. Holy basil. That's a good one. That was known as Tulsi as well. That's great for stress relief. It's a natural adaptogen. There was a study at Vanderbilt University on doing citrus oils like orange oil, and that actually calming patients coming out of surgery and going into surgery, including the nurses. So there was a good study there. A lemonine oil and citrus oils, they're not distilled. They are pressed. And they've been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years for moving, supporting fat digestion and moving lymphatic, for lymphatic stagnation. What's that oil called? It's citrus peel oil.

1:02:20Oh, citrus peel oil. But anytime you see lemon oil or orange oil or grapefruit oil, those are actually citrus peel oils. So all of those, because of delimonine and some of the other compounds, those would all fall into that category. So I think topically, helichrysum is amazing to prevent scarring. I think sandalwood and frankincense are good as part of a blend for skin cancers. Really? Frankincense is it. I've heard of that as a really good healing. It can also starve off getting sick. Have you heard of that? Yeah, yeah. I think generally the oil itself is most studied for maybe its immune properties.

1:02:59The powder, which we call boswell or boswellic acid, is most studied for its anti-inflammatory properties. We pair that a lot with turmeric for those benefits. So yeah, so in the Bible, it talks a lot about these different essential oils and their uses. There was actually an ancient blend called the holy anointing oil. And we read about this both in the Old Testament, like when King David is being anointed and Solomon is king, and it was a mixture of olive oil. And I'm going to get most of these oils correct. like cassia, cinnamon, calamus, and I want to say myrrh, but they would anoint king's heads with it.

1:03:35But also in the book of James, it says, if you're sick, go to the elders of the church, have them lay their hands on you and pray for healing, have them anoint your head with oil, and you will be made well. So this is probably one of the most clear things in the entire Bible in terms of if you're sick, this is what you should do to heal. Also, I know you like coconut oil. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of coconut oil, internally and as a carrier oil. I was going to say, I actually like putting it on my body. It's a great moisturizer. Yeah. Right? Yeah. People don't use it enough. And it's like cheap. Yeah, I agree.

1:04:07Yeah, I think coconut oil is great because it's saturated. And I think that's more in line with what our skin is. This is another reason why I actually think beef tallow is another great one. I was going to ask you about beef tallow. For skin. Yeah, I like it a lot because it's probably the most similar to the oils we actually have on our own skin because it comes from an animal. So, because I know right now it's like super trendy to make everything with beef tallow, sunscreens and moisturizers. So you think it's not just a trendy thing? You think it's really effective? Well, do I think it's trendy?

1:04:34Yes, but I think what's old is new. And let me say this, I think it depends upon the person. There are some people out there that are saying you should never have a seed oil and beef tallow is the best healthy thing for everyone. I don't think that. Like, I think that there are certain types of seed oils if they're cold-pressed and prop. Flaxseed oil is a seed oil. Yeah. Like Ayurvedic used cold-pressed sesame oil as their number one oil they consumed in India for Ayurvedic medicine. So I try not to put blanket statements on there, like never have seed oils because there definitely are some seed oils that are fine and healthy as part of a balanced diet.

1:05:13And there's some people that might do better, especially with those raw ones I'm talking about than doing a lot of butter or tallow. But I also believe there are people that do really well with these high saturated fats like butter and tallow, and they can benefit from consuming them. I'll show you my body type. I do coconut oil I thrive with. I do real well with extra virgin olive oil as well. Those are the two oils I thrive on. If I do too much butter or beef tallow, I don't feel well. But my wife's different. My wife can eat beef tallow all day. And they do great with it. So I just think some of the it depends on what we talked about earlier.

1:05:48Every single person should have a diet that's specific to their body type. And like, if I have a patient with cancer versus inflammatory bowel disease, those are very different diets. Inflammatory bowel disease is like soup, soup, and more soup, like all cooked meat, really well cooked vegetables, maybe even some rice congee and, you know, things like that. And then someone with cancer, I'll probably do a lot of juice vegetables, a lot of raw, those sort of things. Why? Because I think with cancer, so in Chinese medicine, that's known as a chi, basically it's stagnation. One of the biggest causes of cancer is things are stuck and they're not moving.

1:06:23So you want to really move the body a lot and you want to address nutritional deficiencies and toxicity. Max Gershon, who developed Gershon therapy, believed that one of the best ways to do that is to flood the body with nutrients. What's the best way of doing that with whole food nutrition? Juicing vegetables. You know what else he juiced? This is going to sound gross and crazy to people. Raw beef liver. He took raw calf liver from young calves and juiced it. And so the Gershon diet, now originally that's what they did. Then some other people took over and they're like, oh, that can't be good because it's an animal product.

1:06:55So like, and then now I think they do maybe recommend desiccated liver as tablets, but overall that's what he did because beef liver is probably the most nutrient dense food there is. So Gershon therapy, and if you're combining that with the Chinese medicine ideals as well, you're doing lots of organ meats. You're doing lots of vegetables and berries and those things where you're really flooding the body with nutrients. And then you're really supporting the body's detoxification protocol. That's why he also recommended some coffee enemas, things to really help release bile and flush toxins out of your system.

1:07:27And so anyways, with cancer, you also want to go very high enzymes. And there's some studies on doing a lot of proteolytic enzymes, and enzymes are very good for breaking down what we call senescent cells in the body and cancer cells. But enzymes are also very reactive. They're moving. They help things happen within the body. So overall, when somebody has cancer, you really want to move things. Turmeric and ginger together are also very good to do for that. God, you just said a bunch of things I wanted to ask you about. It's on my notes, but I can't see without my glasses. But basically, you said something about, okay, number one organ meats you talk about in the book as a big super nutrient.

1:08:04It's the number one food we're missing in our society today. Major. Yeah, organ meats. So, you know, there's this whole craze over peptides today. Do I know? Of course. Okay. Yeah, every single person and their dog asks me about peptides daily. So, yeah, I've done a lot of studying on peptides and a lot of research, and I am a big fan of peptides for the most part. I will say this. The number one place you find peptides in nature is in organs. I mean, so like Chinese medicine, if you were to go in or even a lot of these biblical physicians like Maimonides probably and others, they would have prescribed and recommended, if you're sick, herbs, mushrooms, and glandulars or organs that you would take as a supplement essentially.

1:08:48And so like BPC-157, that body protective compound, that's found in your gastric juices and your stomach and your duodenum. You know, thymus and alpha-1 or thymulin, And these peptides today that people take as well, like that TB500, you know, that's found in the thymus gland. You know, that's a big part of your immune system. So actually people for thousands of years have taken thymus gland to fight cancer or immune issues. And so peptides are natural compounds found in our organs and glands. And if we were eating more liver and kidney and heart and things like our ancestors did, then we wouldn't be as deficient as we are today.

1:09:25So I think people can take peptides, get a lot of benefits from them. if they're taking them correctly, whether it's subcutaneous or some are absorbed well orally. But I think there's lots of benefits of peptides. My point there is organ meats are where you're getting those. Like if you, if somebody had, the principle is called like heals like. If you have a heart issue, eat heart. If you have a liver issue, eat liver. If you have a thyroid issue, what should you take for your thyroid? Thyroid, gland. You should take that as a, in fact, you know, the number one natural thyroid medication, armor or NP thyroid or natrathroid.

1:09:59Those are from beef and pig thyroid glands. They just take the thyroid gland and they, and they, yeah, yeah. That's, that's what, uh, that's what armor is. And so wait a second. Are you telling me that you eat heart? You? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But let me say this. Listen, my, my palate is not adapted to the bitterness. I mean, listen, I like chicken liver fine. I will saute it with garlic and onions. I like ketchup with it. I salte it in coconut oil or olive oil. And I like liver fine. I like liver pate too. So like that's all fine with me. But heart actually does not taste bad either. But the way that I get it, like I buy a brand, it's called Forces of Nature.

1:10:38And it's beef, heart, and liver in there. And then I take organ, a multi-organ supplement regularly too. You do? Mm-hmm. You know, when I was a kid, my mom would force me to eat liver. Do you remember that when you were a little boy? and ever since then, I haven't had a thing. I haven't had it, but it is like, I think it's known to be like the healthiest thing in the world. It's the most nutrient dense food there is. But how do you stomach it? Like, can you just take, like you said, a capsule? Yeah, yeah, people can take capsules and tablets today. Easy, super easy. Okay, so what, okay, so can you send me, I would take that because what would be some benefits, what would be some of the things I would notice in my overall health by me taking one of these, like either eating organ meat or taking a supplement of it?

1:11:26Well, I think for most people, if you are deficient in a nutrient that it's high in or a peptide it's high in, then you're going to notice a difference. Like iron, for example. So many women are low in iron. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, iron and the other things you need to build blood like B12 and folate, I mean, those are found at very high levels in heart and liver. Coenzyme Q10 as well, carnosine, taurine, creatine. I mean, all those are in heart as well. So, yeah, I mean, I think women could really benefit from liver and heart specifically, also ovary and uterus. I mean, those are good for, I think, women going through menopause, all women, really, of all ages.

1:12:01And then if you have a thyroid issue, thyroid and adrenal would be great as well. But I would say the nutrients that they're the highest in are B vitamins, iron. I want to say thyroid has some selenium. So, but they're pretty high in, I mean, they're more nutrient-dense than vegetables. I mean, people take today superfood greens powder. What do you notice there? Well, the organ glandular supplements are going to be probably just as potent or more. So, okay. So if people have like a bad heart, like, you know, people, so many people are on statins and all these things. Why are they not taking like a heart supplement?

1:12:36Like you just said, like one of those or eating heart. I mean, do we have another hour? I mean, I'll try and do this in one minute, but I mean, listen, I mean, you can't, the The margins are not near as good. I mean, you got to understand what these drugs, the drugs they make for pennies. Yeah. They make, it's virtually no cost. And then you get to mark up something a hundred times. I mean, so. Forever. Forever. So, I mean, that's why, I mean, listen, here's something and I will debate anybody on this. If you, send me almost anybody, send me anybody with, you know, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and I'll fix it.

1:13:20Give me almost anybody with type 2 diabetes. And if they follow the plan I lay out, they will reverse their type 2 diabetes and very quickly. What would you do? Give me the plan for anybody listening. Yeah, type 2 diabetes, high protein, high fiber, and moderate fat and lower carb. And so, you know, it's mostly meat and vegetables. There you go. It's exactly meat and vegetables. So you eat that, and then I'm going to have you do berberine, 500 milligrams per meal. I'm going to have chromium picolinate, 200 micrograms per meal. I'm going to have you do vitamin D and magnesium. I'll have you do an herbal tea blend of cinnamon, fenugreek, and gymnosa every single day.

1:13:56And I'm going to have you exercise, ideally a combination of weight training, just walking outside to reduce stress. And someone will reverse their type 2 diabetes incredibly fast. I've helped so many people reverse their type 2 diabetes. And that one's easy. I mean, there are others that are maybe more... But the same thing is true for hypothyroidism, for low testosterone, for PCOS. PCOS is an insulin issue too, by the way. So, but with a lot of these, and I'm not trying to be overconfident here. I just have experienced this with patients. And so today the problem is, is that the problem, there's several problems.

1:14:33One is if you give somebody the option of a pill and then their doctor tells them, you're healthy now, you're normal, and they think they are. Well, of course, who's not going to choose taking a pill over exercising if they don't like exercising? Now, you and I like it. Like, I wouldn't feel normal. Like, not exercising, I would just feel so bad. But some people can live with that. But it's, yeah. So, you know, I— But that's also kind of like with the GLP-1s, right? Like— There you go. People are losing 50 pounds. Like, if you look around the world, literally around the world, everyone's thin now.

1:15:09You think that's natural? You think everyone's just thin because they're just now exercising and eating, right? No, everyone's shooting themselves up. Well, in GLP-1, people are losing. I mean, one study found 40 % of the mass they're losing is muscle mass. 1 ,000%. Are you looking at the people walking around? They're basically skinny fat now is what they are. That's right. That's exactly right. They're skinny fat. People are taking the GLP-1s are now skinny fat. The GLP-2s, right, which is more like the trisepatides, I guess, right? they're a little bit like you don't lose your appetite as much.

1:15:40Yeah. But what are the side effects with that one? I'll be honest, I haven't... Besides the fact that, again, these are not changing and modifying behavior. And you're a doctor. Yeah. The problem I'm seeing is that now everybody's relying on them. They're not changing and modifying their behavior. Yeah. So are they going to just be on this for life? I don't understand. Do I think that the entire world would be, especially the Western world, be much healthier if we eliminated all GLP-1? Yeah, people would be healthier, I think. Now, let me say this. You know, there are probably some statistics to where certain diseases decrease with taking GLP-1.

1:16:24But do I think it increases overall longevity and decreases mortality? No. Here's another one. Do I think we would be better off getting rid of 90 plus percent of all medications and all of 90 % of all mainstream medicine? Yes. Yes, we would be healthier for it. I mean, if we keep emergency medicine, true emergency medicine, I want to keep that. We're the best in the world at that. But healthcare, I mean, if you're comparing us to Japan or a number of these other countries, we're not even close. No, we're not even close. We rank like one of them. It's either life expectancy or quality of life.

1:16:58It's number 70. I think on both. I mean, and especially now it's even gotten worse. I mean, I think it's beginning progressively worse. Yeah. The fact that like nobody has health, but also they make it impossible to have health insurance. And it's so expensive. Yeah, yeah. And all the doctors now don't want to be a doctor. Yeah. They all want to be a concierge doctor, which is very expensive. Yep. And like, no offense to you, I know you're a functional medicine doctor, but most of the people in the world can't afford to see you. Not, well, actually you too. You guys are expensive. You guys, the tests are rarely, like all the testings are super expensive.

1:17:33It's not a cheap thing. They make it for the top 1 % or 2 % of the world to be able to afford it. I mean, here's what would fix most problems. And one, let me say this too, though. I believe that going to see a functional medicine doctor will save you more money, not to mention save your life. You think so? But will save you more money in the long term. How? Well, one, you'll pay less on insurance premiums. Well, you guys don't take insurance. But what happens if there's an emergency? Yeah, but what you're paying, because listen, insurance gets expensive when you have a pre-existing condition.

1:18:02Oh, yeah, it does. So my point is you're paying more on your insurance. I mean, that really adds up over time. But the reality is, I mean— Do you still see patients? Do you actually? You do. You actually— Well, so the way that I work today is I have a team of practitioners. I run a telemedicine, a virtual practice called the Health Institute. And so we have people come in regularly. But I have a group of practitioners that work on my team. So I don't see people one-on-one, but I do group calls once a week. And I'll troubleshoot with the patient. Everyone can attend, ask me questions live, go through that with everybody.

1:18:36The hard cases I go through, I work with the practitioners on the cases. So I'm not doing one-on-one calls with people right now, but I do run a virtual practice and work with cases every day. So do you think that if someone has to choose between a regular doctor, like when I say an MD doctor, or functional medicine, You think functional medicine is a better call because they are getting more to the root of the problem and they'll save money on the long term. Yeah, and listen, to the amount they'll save long term, my point is that you will pay a lot for insurance if you maintain the same condition in the poor health that you have.

1:19:13Versus if you can reverse the condition and pay less for insurance, much less, that will save you some money. But overall, I mean, the reality is functional medicine or what I do, I'd probably call it more personalized cellular medicine, but more of that personalization there, which I think is a little different. It's a form of functional medicine, but I think it goes kind of a step further. But, you know, that, the thing that people have to think about is like, what's your life worth and your quality of health, right? I mean, it's, I mean, there's an investment there. There's no doubt about it.

1:19:42But I will say, if we changed our entire healthcare system to where doctors, rather than prescribing drugs, the only thing they did was prescribe diets, supplements, and lifestyle changes like exercise, that's not expensive. That doesn't have to be expensive. No, it doesn't have to be. And it fixes 70 % of the problems. And that fixes, yeah, at least 70%. I agree with you. Yeah. Why is everybody now prescribing or talking about microdosing these GLPs? GLP-1s. Yeah. Because the side effects are less. I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's the only reason. Listen, I guess the way that it probably works is people that have these major cravings, it takes the edge off towards not totally fixing the problem.

1:20:26It's kind of like this. It's like some people, it's like, hey, you've got low energy. Let me give you 500 milligrams of caffeine. Let me give you so much every hour that you're just versus - What they're saying now. Hey, here's some ribose or here's some green tea, just, you know, one cup a day. I mean, so the micro dosing is around one eighth of the dose to one tenth of the dose probably. So it's going to be, it's quite a bit less. And if somebody, it's not going to do near the harm, not even close to where the full doses of GLP-1 was. And finally, I don't even know if I have a problem with micro dosing myself.

1:20:59I don't think it's the right fix. I think I would rather have somebody just eat more protein and fiber because they're going to get just as good or better results. This is what the, I mean, I'm telling you the doctor, the very well-known doctor here. But like that is good for inflammation. The microdosing is good for inflammation. It's good for brain health in terms of brain fog, focus. Like those are the three keys. Oh, and they say now for menopause symptoms. This is what, that's what's being touted. I'm not saying it's accurate. I'm just saying. Like I don't have enough, I don't know that first, I don't think there's enough research on it.

1:21:31I don't think there's enough research on any of it. Or understanding how it works physiologically for us to make a lot of big conclusions right now. But do I think a microdosing is harmful to people? I'll say this. I don't think it's probably that bad. So I don't, listen, I'm against this ultradosing of GLP-1. I am like as against it as anybody else, more than anybody I can think of. But the microdosing, I don't think is probably that bad. But would I ever recommend it? I don't recommend it. I think people should just change your lifestyle and take berberine. I'd rather you take that. What does berberine do?

1:22:08So berberine is a compound from the bayberry leaf, similar to like curcuminoids or a compound found in turmeric. And they are probably found to be the most powerful blood sugar regulator. So they help with insulin resistance. So again, for diabetics or prediabetes, which by the way, like one out of every three Americans now have prediabetes. Think about that. one out of every three, it's incredibly high. So berberine is probably the most effective herbal compound for blood sugar. And then after that, it's probably just as a whole, cinnamon, fenugreek, and gymnos are probably the next. And mulberry leaf is good too.

1:22:48I want to know about fruit. Fruit's such a controversial—it's so stupid how controversial show fruit is, but it is. You talk in your book about certain things like the figs, papaya. What, in your opinion, is the most, like pound for pound, and you cannot say blueberries. I won't. Okay. Is the best fruit for your health? Pomegranate. I love pomegranates. Yeah. And I had a feeling, I did see it in there. It's very biblical. It's very Jewish. People love... Yeah. We love pomegranates. Well, pomegranates have a lot of benefits. One, And they're incredibly high in fiber, and they're incredibly high in antioxidants.

1:23:25So they're lower glycemic, similar to berries. But pomegranates have a unique compound called alligic acid. It's also found in raspberries and to a degree in walnuts and pecans, but higher levels in pomegranates and raspberries. And this is a compound that about half of people can convert very well to something called urolithin A. And urolithin A is something people are buying today. Very popular. But here's the cool thing about allergic acid from pomegranates. It not only turns into urolithin A, it turns into urolithin B, C, D, E. There are many, many more of these phytonutrients of urolithins that have many, many benefits.

1:24:07And so these are things that people maybe haven't even heard of before. But that's why pomegranate, it's a whole food source. You're going to get a much, much wider range of benefits than taking just a plain old urolithin A supplement. And this is really important for what we call mitochondrial biogenesis. It's great for recycling your mitochondria, for taking those damaged parts of damaged cells, recreating mitochondria. Our mitochondria are the engines or power plants of our cells that give us energy, that gives our cells and all of our organs energy. So a lot of conditions today are tied to mitochondrial dysfunction.

1:24:37Chronic fatigue syndrome is probably the most prevalent. But also hypothyroidism, like I mentioned earlier, anything with low energy. Cancer is connected to mitochondrial dysfunction. There's a lot of conditions there. chronic infections. If people have long COVID and they're not healing still, mitochondrial dysfunction. So yeah, pomegranates to me are probably my favorite fruit for healing. Heart benefits too. We remember all the old pomegranate juice, but there were some studies then on just even the juice. But yeah, pomegranates would be my number one fruit for healing. And then after that, they're probably just berries as a whole are good to get.

1:25:10And there are berries that people don't even think about as berries like currants and anaronia. And of course, goji is amazing. But yeah, that'd be up there. What's your theory on colostrum? Is it useful? Is it a waste of time to take it? I think this is one that is very, very based on somebody's bio-individuality. I think if some people, it can really be a strengthener of immunity. I think for some people, it just won't do anything. Or maybe their body's even too sensitive to be able to deal with that sort of stimulation that can occur with colostrum. So I think, my guess is this, and by the way, I don't think anyone knows this, but my guess is that people that do well with fermented dairy will likely do well with colostrum.

1:25:55But I think this is where, some people have lost the art of just listening to your body. Your body will tell you so much. If you eat something and you keep getting gas and bloating, don't keep eating that. Now, sometimes there's like, okay, let me give you one example though. When you're increasing your protein intake, you will get some gas and bloating because your body has to start to get used to creating enough of certain enzymes to break down the protein. And then even then later, if you have too much, well, then you'll still get gas and bloating. But so sometimes it's an adaptation issue, but I would say if this is months long and you're still having problems when you eat a food, listen to your body.

1:26:32It's just not agreeing with you. You know, like I had a, I have a patient I'm working with right now and he has IBSD and, um, and I gave him a diet that was like all cooked food, you know? And I, and so rather than a smoothie, what I have a lot of people do is I have them do a pumpkin smoothie for breakfast, have them do a 30 can of pumpkin and I have them do vanilla, like a bone broth, like a protein powder that's made of bone broth, maybe another vanilla plant protein. And then I have them do pumpkin pie spice with a lot of ginger cinnamon and do that as a smoothie. And, um, and he ate that.

1:27:03And along with the diet, I put him on and he went from having 11 bowel movements a day down to just two. This is after just one week. And then I saw him again the next week. And he's like, oh man, I had like, you know, I'm up to like seven or nine bowel movements again today. Cause I'd be just having, you know, just major problems there. And I said, well, what, what do you do differently? He's like, man, I'm still eating healthy. You know, it was like this morning I went and I had yogurt and I I had melon, and then I did, and I'm like, Rob, like, okay. I know melon sounds incredibly healthy, and I know yogurt sounds incredibly healthy.

1:27:34But you've got IBSD, and your constitution right now is so cold, and digestive system is so weak, you can't, like, it's going to wreck your system. You can't do it. And then we get him back on it. He has a lot of ginger turmeric tea, too. I love that. And then it just fixes it again. But there are just things like that. There are so many people that are suffering with health issues, and they think, oh, salads are healthier. or smoothies are healthy or whatever. And if they just not even eat things that they would think of as healthier, sometimes it might be worse for them or they would think it would be, but it will actually completely fix and heal whatever their issue is.

1:28:05Can you take a certain, like what are some tests, like basic tests or really, or tests, they don't have to be basic, that really tell you a great picture of someone's like true, like inside, the health, like deep in the innards of themselves. Yeah. The number one test is looking at your tongue. Oh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like this? Exactly. Does it look healthy to you? Yeah. Yours is actually one of the, it's healthier than most. When we could say one of the healthiest tongues you've ever seen? No, it's healthier than most because I've do this before. There are a couple things. Really? You got a little bit of heat, but it's not, it's not too bad.

1:28:42It's really hot in here though. Well, it is very hot in here. You can open the door. But I'll give you an example. One thing I see in people is, so if some people have ridges like bite marks on the side of their tongue, That's called a splinter deficiency or it's a digestive deficiency. That means your digestive system is weak. So we got to really warm it up and help do some things to strengthen the digestive system. The other thing would be if somebody's tongue is pale, that is a type of anemia. We call it a blood deficiency. So we need to do a lot more red meat and beets and steamed greens and blood-building foods.

1:29:11Coating on your tongue, now we call that candida. We'll call it dampness as well. So your tongue will tell me the exact herbs you need to tell me a lot. I don't have any of that stuff. What do I have? So the only thing that you have is a little coating with, that's almost an orange-yellow color on the back of your tongue, but it's very subtle. That just shows me that really the only thing I'm seeing is you've got a little bit of heat in your large intestine. What does that mean? It means that there's a little bit of inflammation in your large intestine. It's mild, but I would say, you know, you want to do things like spearmint tea, something like that, that'll start cooling it.

1:29:45And just do some more cooling. In fact, you actually are the opposite of some people. you would probably do well with like a coconut yogurt or a goat's milk yogurt or something like that. So what do I stay away from? You probably want to stay away from things that are like some things that are very spicy, um, might bother your system possibly or make that slightly worse. But really, again, you're, you're, you have one of the healthier almost every time when I, if I ever bring that up or somehow it comes up, most people have major deficiencies and problems. Yours is, you have one of the healthier, it seems like your system moves pretty well, um, based on what I see there.

1:30:14But, but the other thing is there are blood tests. I like, like we do a test at the Health Institute where it's called a true health test. And we, we look at micronutrients and organic acids. We also do vitamin D. So we do a number of tests. What we really focus on is vitamins and minerals and amino acids and looking at essential fatty acids, like where are those major deficiencies? That's my favorite test. I also like doing a hormone panel. And then another favorite is a GI map. Those are probably the three tests I run the most. And, and I can tell, you know that along with looking at somebody's tongue and and of course their symptoms i i mean i usually have everything i need to know i mean there's other tests sometimes i'll do on occasion food sensitivities i mean there's there's others but those three i just mentioned are the probably the i there's a test also i really like it's called an organ age test and so i'm able to look at the age of basically all the different organs in the body based on different biomarkers and that's pretty pretty powerful as well for some people can i get all these tests yeah yeah i'll send them to you.

1:31:14No, I'm serious. Yeah. And I mean this, you're very knowledgeable. I told you, I liked you before you became so popular because I liked the way you can tell you're like, you're really smart, but there are people who are smart and the people who really kind of like go underneath the hood and like figure, like you really do go underneath the hood and you say things that not ever, like things become so noisy, right? Like what I like about you is that like, I always seem to learn something different when I listen to you? Well, one of the things, again, when you have... You can pay me later. Yeah, well, when, you know, like, again, for me, it was so much like when my mom was sick, it was like, I got to figure out everything I can.

1:31:51And the other thing is, I think I realized too, is that one, I just, I enjoy this. Like, I like learning. I'm like, if I do like, you know, some sort of, you know, personality profile, learner's always number one. But I enjoy learning. But, you know, I think I found that there are probably quite a few people, and this isn't to knock anybody, but, you know, I think a lot of people, maybe even early on in the career, they learn a lot of studies or stats and they can spit those off. But, but I never, I don't know. I always wanted to understand philosophically and scientifically, how does the body work?

1:32:19Why is that happening? And I always started asking, I don't know if you've heard of this, the five whys. Why? Well, why is that? Well, why is that in understanding? And so, and I think that helps me as a practitioner, be able to understand that a little bit more, kind of that general sort of philosophy. And by the way, the thing I like about the blood test too is that we do, it's a blood spot. So you can do it at home on a little piece of cardboard. We have people that become patients do that just right on the, and then you just ship it in. It's so easy. I mean, you know what's going to be so amazing in the future?

1:32:48Eventually we'll have like, this is an aura ring I wear. We'll be able to have, or very similar to those continuous glucose monitors, we'll probably be able to have those on in 20 years and pull up our phone and it'll tell you everything you're deficient in that day and the exact meal you need. And you can probably have it delivered to your home. In 10 minutes. I used to wear all the Auras and all the Fitbits and all the things. And honestly, I felt it was more stressful than not. I see that with some people, for sure. No one needs to be wearing a continuous glucose monitor on your arm all day unless you are a real diabetic.

1:33:21Here's what I found. It was helpful for me to do for two weeks. Yes. And then I didn't need it again because I just knew. Like, I was surprised. I found for fruit with myself. I can do one serving and I'm good. But if I ate two, like a really big servings of fruit, like, whoa, my blood sugar really jumped. I also found if I eat fruit around exercise, I'm fine too. But it was like, so one serving or around exercise, good to go. Two servings without exercise. My body does not like that. I also found like potatoes. I'm like, oh, I ate all these potatoes. My blood sugar is going to, it didn't. You know?

1:33:55I agree. But I think fruit, I eat so much of it, it bloats you because it's so much like, like water and sugar and all the things. I love fruit. Yeah, same here, yeah. I love it. But that's why I'm thinking like, if I'm eating so much of it, maybe it's like too much of a good thing, maybe. I eat like, I can eat pounds of it at a time. Again, I think they're meant to be done one serving. Yeah. And not more. What you think one serving is and what I do. One apple, you know, three-fourths a cup, probably blueberries, I mean, something like that. Okay, I have one more question and then I'll let you go.

1:34:27Okay, let's talk about like eczema and psoriasis, like that kind of thing. Because what makes it start to inflame again? Like, is it just stress life? I have a feeling, tell me if there's a correlation between this. If you're working out too intensely and your cortisol gets too high, it can inflame your skin? Is that just something I'm making up in my head? No, that's true. But let me say, so on your tongue, back of the tongue, orange yellow, that's damp heat in your large intestine. That's the cause of eczema. So when somebody has eczema, again, this is a Chinese medicine powder, but it's damp heat.

1:35:04So there's yeast, there's bacterial or yeast overgrowth that's happening in the colon, and then there's also heat and inflammation there. So in that case, there are certain herbs that are really good for expelling damp heat. One really good one for you is probably one most people probably haven't heard of yet. It's called sarsaparilla. Sometimes it goes by Smilax. If it's affecting the liver too, chrysanthemum, like people with rosacea, chrysanthemum is by far the best herb they could ever take probably for most of them. Gentian herb, but it's really more bitters. Getting some more bitter greens in your diet, things like that, that helps flush some of that damp heat.

1:35:40And that typically is what you do. But like exercise wise, if you're to the point where you're getting red in the face. No. Or where you're creating a lot of heat, it could make it worse. Or of course, if cortisol gets too high from overexercise, that definitely will bother it too. Can life stress just make you have more? Of course. Yeah, that's probably... Well, I mean, life stress is really, in a way... Everything. It's going to exacerbate everything. In Chinese medicine, that would typically be what we would call depleting your chi, or in Western medicine, depleting your mitochondria, right?

1:36:10Too much stress. It's like your body's battery's getting too low. So really, if your battery's low, that's affecting every single organ, every single cell in your entire body. Would you send me those things that I should... Herbs? Yeah, of course. I'm telling you. I wish you saw patients. I do. I see them in a group format, and I have practitioners. My practitioners are amazing. They are really, really good practitioners. How many do you have? So we had about 18 or 20. I mean, so. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, about 18 or 20, yeah. Okay, so wait. Okay, did I ask, is there anything I didn't cover with you?

1:36:47I mean, I wanted to ask you, like salt. I know you're a big Celtic or Celtic salt. Well, you know what? I think that salt, this all comes down to the individual as well. I think that you should sprinkle a little salt on your food, but also not go overboard. You shouldn't be doing buckets of salt on your food. And some of this also depends on how much potassium you're getting, which you're going to get predominantly from fruit and to a degree from things like vegetables and potatoes. So again, I know people always want me to give a straight answer and I can sometimes, but it's so hard because again, like my mindset's always, I need to create something customized for you?

1:37:22Where do you live? You're going to sweat more in Florida than California. Are you exercising? Let me give you an example. The most popular electrolyte beverage today, I don't like at all for most people. Oh, I know. It's terrible. It's synthetic. It's a five to one ratio, a thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 of potassium. For most people I work with, it should probably be closer to a one to one ratio of an electrolyte drink. Exactly. Coconut water, throw sea salt in there. There you go. There's your electrolyte drink. Or watermelon and juice with electrolytes. I don't know how this whole, it became like a whole thing, like LMNT and all these, sorry, but all these things.

1:37:59Yeah, well, yeah, I didn't say that. I mean, no, because I don't understand. Why can't people just take their own coconut water or their own water and just add some lemon and some of their own salt? It's cheaper, it's free, and it's way healthier. It is healthier. And your body, it's not bloated. I find those things have way too much sodium. them. Yeah, they do. They do. I mean, it's great. I mean, like I have some people like they're giving themselves health problems. Actually, it'll increase the water retention, increase some of the dampness. It'll make them work. Now, you know, if you're sweating buckets or you're, let's say you're a CrossFitter and you're sweating a lot, that brand, even though I don't like it because synthetic and the other things in it, it's probably the right ratio for those people.

1:38:42If people are marathon runners, those sorts of things, it's meant for them. but the average day person that just sweats a little bit when they're exercising, it's the ratio. So it's, it's, it's way off. I don't understand, but that's the thing, right? Like people are overdoing everything, right? Like you see when people go on their hike for like a mile, they're taking their trail mix with them up the, up, up the mountain. And probably, and probably a camelback, you know, you know, the, yeah, totally. It's true. It's so crazy. Okay, one last question, I promise. Give me five things in your 50s for longevity.

1:39:18Number one, have a spiritual growth practice. Number two? Start focusing more on building community. Like this could be lunch with your best friends. Just start a weekly brunch, something to where you are building deeper relationships where you're looking at serving and helping other people, but just better relationships. Three? At the very least, change your breakfast. You know, focus on more protein, more fiber, more nutrients. It might look like what I talked about, the pumpkin smoothie. Blueberries are fine at room temperature with some coconut milk, some collagen or bone broth protein, some plant protein, but something like that for breakfast.

1:39:55Four. Yeah, I want to mention exercise here. But here's what I'll say for exercise. do the type of exercise you're going to be consistent with. I mean, I love weight training. By the way, the longevity studies show that probably the best exercise is racket sports, like tennis and pickleball and badminton. So I love that. I love swimming. I love cycling. But I would say generally, just spend more time moving. And the last one, number five, just spend way more time outside. Yeah, I think those are good. Hiking, getting sun, all that. I think the pickleball tennis is also good for your brain coordination, nation, keeping your brain moving.

1:40:32Of course. Yeah. By the way, the best exercise is walking because everyone can do it, and the barrier to entry is very little. And especially if you've got hills. I mean, it's even better. I totally agree. You know, I agree. Okay, I guess I can let you go now. We can open the window. Well, thanks so much for having me. This was fun. It's a great question. I mean, some of the questions are ones I don't answer often, and those are my favorite interviews. I love being able to answer the questions that are kind of less common. Oh, my God, I have a million more, but I don't want to, I feel like I've, like, taken up way too much of your time, and I know it's like a sauna in here, so I didn't want to make you sweat more.

1:41:07Saunas are great for our health. That's right, exactly. I was going to say, you didn't say sauna in the five longevity, and I said 50s, not 40s, because I think, you know, people who, like, I feel like they're, like, now empty nesters, and they can, like, focus on their lives more, maybe. It's a better, their kids are off in college and what have you. Okay, so Josh, Dr. What do people call you? Josh? It depends. A lot of people call me Josh. Some people call me Dr. Axe. Some people call me other things. My five-year-old daughter calls me Dad or makes up other names. I'll call you Dr. Josh. That's great.

1:41:44Yeah? Great. I'm great with anything. Dr. Josh Axe's book is called, when is it out? Biblio Diet. It's out soon. Oh, September. Yeah, soon. Very soon. And I don't know. Everything that, John, I like you. I think you do. He's got great info. I really, like I said, I've been following him for a long time. He's very knowledgeable. And that's it. Buy his book. Bye. Thank you.