Episode 493: Ben Greenfield: How to Actually Look 20 Years Younger + His Most Extreme Biohacks Revealed

26:02But if your goal is like strength, power, biomechanics, et cetera, like working out in a room that's like unreasonably hot would be less advantageous from a performance standpoint. Really? And there are nuances like if you're, I don't know, acclimatizing to go do some kind of like a race or something in a hot area. Like I used to ride my bike in a really hot room when I was getting ready for Ironman Hawaii. Or if your number one goal is like sweating, heat shock proteins, cardiovascular stimulus. But I would argue that like if you're in the gym gym, you should be in the gym to build strength and power.

26:40And if you want to like get really good cardio fitness, yeah, go ride your bike in a hot room or hit the sauna. Well, it's funny you said that because I remember, do you know Laird Hamilton is obviously you do, right? Yes, I'm a lawyer. Okay, so I was with him in his sauna. He had a bike in there, like a spin bike. He's like spinning in the sauna. I was like, I could barely even sit in the sauna. He's like riding his bike in the sauna. Yeah. Because I thought it's training your endurance and stamina to a level. It is. Yeah. But I also thought it's better for you, basically, versus like, do you ever go to equinoxes or stuff like that?

27:18It's better for you different. Like it's better for you cardiovascularly. Right, but not for strength training and performance and power. And like everybody thinks about the gym a little bit differently. I primarily think about the gym as a place to build muscle and get strong and develop power and separate the cardiovascular component from that. Like if I wanted the best of both worlds, I would go to a gym where it was like 65 to 70 degrees in the weight training area. And then to get the most out of my cardio training, there's another room that's like kind of hot that you could go to your cardio in.

27:55So you know what I'm saying? Like it kind of depends on what your goals are. But I'm still confused on to why would it be not as good or advantageous if I were to be in a warm place doing strength training? Because like if I'm doing a deadlift. Because there's less blood flow to the muscles. But if I'm deadlifting, right? And I can be way more flexible. Supple. Yeah. Yeah, more supple. That's a great word. That heat would allow you to do that. But you can pretty quickly cross the threshold from enough heat for the muscles to be warm and not stiff to so much heat that there's not enough blood to the muscles because the body has to shunt a bunch to the skin to cool the body off.

28:34Okay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like hot is good, but more is not necessarily better if you're wanting to get enough blood flow to the muscles to like crank out a few extra reps and get strong. Okay, fair.

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30:01what's the one thing that people are not doing properly for weight loss or fat loss you know we all know about strength training we all know about eating protein okay we got those down and the whole cardio versus strength training i'm sure you believe that strength training is more important than cardio concurrent training meaning doing strength and cardio at the same time either in the same workout or throughout the week, the most superior form for fat loss versus just strength or just cardio. Kind of like the order for fat loss is concurrent training and then aerobic training and then strength training.

30:38Say more. What do you mean by concurrent? So concurrent means at the same, so an example of a concurrent workout, and there's like one classic workout that showed it just burnt way more calories and blasted more fat than just about any workout you could do is you would do, let's say, and I'll give you an example of a workout that I do if I'm pressed for time and I just want to get as many benefits as possible out of the workout, metabolic stimuli, strength, et cetera. Now, before I explain this, there will be like a few choice people listening in who know exercise science will say, well, what about the interference effect?

31:14The interference effect means that if you are doing cardio and strength, The strength isn't going to be quite as good as it could be if you were doing the cardio. And the cardio isn't going to be quite as good as it could be if you're doing the strength. But both put together for fat loss and the metabolic stimuli are gold standard. And that's called concurrent training. So this would be like I walk into, let's say, like my hotel gym back here in Santa Monica. And I do two minutes on the airdyne. And then I do a superset of chest press to push-ups. And then I do two minutes on the airdyne and then I do a superset of leg press to hamstring curls.

31:52And then I do two minutes on the airdyne and I superset overhead press to band pull apart. And then finally two minutes on the airdyne and lat pulldowns to seated rows. Like that's an example of a concurrent training workout where it's all done in the same set. And you're kind of like huffing wind and you have a metabolic rate that's through the roof. You're burning a ton of calories because you're never just like sitting there, you know, watching TV in between sets. and you're kind of like moving the whole time. Another example of concurrent training from more of like a weekly periodized standpoint would be, and I do this a lot of times when I'm at home, like full body strength Monday, core and cardio Tuesday, full body strength Wednesday, core and cardio Thursday, and then full body strength on Friday and core and cardio on Saturday.

32:35So that's an example of a week in which you're doing both aerobic and strength training. And back to the fat loss piece, that would be an example of the best way to move or exercise if you want to burn fat. I would say kind of related to that, one of the bigger mistakes that people make in the exercise department specifically would be hearing that zone two cardio, like aerobic cardio burns a lot of fat. And that's like, they're just like the treadmill walking people because of that. And I haven't like, I'd love to walk on a treadmill. I think it's great to do like low level physical intensity during the day.

33:09I think it can be a little bit of waste of time to do it at the gym. Like I'm not talking about people who actually are doing that for a race, like a triathlon or a marathon or something like that. Like people are just wanting to burn fat. I would rather see people getting zone two cardio by walking on the treadmill during a zoom call or by wearing a weighted vest while you're cleaning the garage or, you know, by parking a few blocks away from the restaurant and taking a brisk walk there and eating food and brisk walking back. And that's where I get the majority of my zone two cardio, just kind of like moving during the day, you know, jumping on the trampoline in your backyard.

33:41Right. But the issue is that, so if you look at like exercise physiology, there's this term called the RQ, the respiratory quotient. And if you were to go into an actual exercise physiology lab and put on one of these masks that measures the amount of oxygen that you consume and the amount of carbon dioxide that you produce, you can look at that ratio and get a pretty accurate evaluation of how much fat you're burning and how many carbs you're burning at rest or during exercise. The exercise version is you do it while you're on a treadmill or on a bicycle. The at rest version is you're just like laying down, getting your metabolic rate measured.

34:23And if I were to put you on a treadmill and do that test, if you're walking at a really low intensity, you'd see a lower RQ. A lower RQ means you're burning more fat and less carbs. And then as you get more and more intense, you begin to shift away from fat utilization. You begin to burn a higher and higher percentage of carbs. And then you get to the point where you're just like running so hard up a hill, almost ready to fall off the back of the treadmill and you're burning like almost 100 % carbs. So people hear that and they hear that like this lower intensity or cardio burns a higher percentage of fat, all right, great.

35:02Well, that's why I'm going to like burn all the fat off my body. The problem is that you aren't burning that many calories at that low intensity. So if I'm burning say 70 % fat, but I'm burning 200 calories per hour walking in zone two, and then I'm burning maybe 30 % fat, but I'm also burning 800 calories per hour during say like one of those concurrent training sessions that I described. At the end of the day, I'm burning way more calories from fat by using intensity, high intensity interval training and weight training than I am from doing zone two cardio. So - Cause you see this whole thing about like the 12 incline, three miles an hour, 30 minutes.

35:50Yeah. I'm like. Yeah, 12 % incline, three miles per hour, 30 minutes. Yeah, 12, 3.30, something like that. Yeah, and they're saying that that's like the 12, 3.30 is like the best workout. And, you know, I tried it just to see what the hype was about. And I didn't burn very many calories. No. And also psychologically, I didn't feel like I did very much. Now, granted, the best workout is the workout you're actually going to do. And then for a lot of people, if I can turn my brain off and go walk for 30 minutes, that person's going to burn more calories than the person who stops at the door of the gym because whatever they're supposed to be doing is way harder than that.

36:26100%. It's like when people always say to me, like, what's the best exercise to do? The one that you're actually going to do for sure. But I just wanted to ask you because I think there's a misconception out that, like, if you just do that, you're going to change your body composition. And you don't agree with that. Compared to doing nothing at all, you are. Not as much as if you were doing a widely varied program with both strength training and HIIT. Well, because the only way to really change your body composition is through strength training, I've found. Yeah. Right? Well, I mean, if you look at the legs of a Tour de France cyclist, you wouldn't say, well, they're not doing anything.

37:05So if you get enough reps on a high enough wattage doing cardio, you can change your body composition. Swimmers have huge shoulders, and they're not spending a ton of time in the gym. True. So if you're at the extreme end of the cardio range, you can change your body composition. Right, if you're a European or a athlete, we're not talking about you. But most people are not going to do that on an average, you know, cardio bunny workout machine. But what would you say about this? Someone who runs, let's say, like a three incline at five miles an hour versus the 12, 3, 30. What do you think is a better way to spend your time for efficiency and effectiveness?

37:40For what? For fat loss? For fat loss. I would say that. And think about all the things, the calories, all that. Yeah. The higher intensity one, the one that gets your heart rate higher because of what's called post-exercise oxygen consumption, meaning that the harder that you work out, the higher your metabolic rate is after the workout. or the more muscles that you stimulate during a workout, the higher your metabolic rate is long-term because muscle burns calories and you're adding new muscle to your body. So anything that keeps the metabolic rate elevated for a longer period of time is gonna be better.

38:21And there are, of course, like subtle nuances. Like if you overtrain and spend like two hours doing super high intensity stuff in the gym, you will eventually develop hormone imbalances that send your body into starvation mode. Then it wants to start holding on to fat and get the cortisol issues. So there's always kind of like a law of diminishing returns. But for the most part, you're going to burn more calories, burn more fat and lose weight more effectively if you're exercising at a higher intensity instead of lower. How do you know when that's happening? Like how do people know when they are working out too much too often and they're getting a lot of these symptoms like holding on to fat and hormone imbalances?

39:02Like, when do you know if it's that or if it's just like midlife or another thing happening? Like, are there signs that that's happening? Yeah. Let's say that you weren't going to, by the way, I just bought a new shirt at TJ Maxx because I had to be on a documentary and now I feel like I'm nippling out. I hate to see any nipple, actually. Okay, good. But you do look very fancy in your new white shirt. There we go. No logos. Yeah. So, TJ Maxx. Let's say you couldn't or you wouldn't or you don't have the time or just can't logistically get like a blood test or a hormone test to actually see if you have hormone imbalances.

39:40Because frankly, like that would be a pretty good idea if you really wanted to self-quantify is like go get a urinary hormone test and see if like cortisol is super low or you have low DHEA or low testosterone or any of these things that you could actually quantify. But that aside, some of the major things to pay attention to is, and this is something you can easily do with a wearable, elevated resting body temperature for multiple days in a row over and above what it would normally be. elevated resting heart rate over and above what it normally is. Not for one day, but like consistent patterns, like usually three days or more is beginning to give you clues that there's some type of nervous system dysregulation that can be pretty tied to the type of endocrine system dysregulation that occurs from overtraining.

40:30Poor sleep, being tired though, but like getting into bed and not being able to sleep, like tired but wired. So it's not like you don't want to get into bed, but you get into bed and you're just like, you can't sleep. And you just like lay there awake and you can sometimes hear your blood pounding in your ears. And sometimes because of the elevated body temperature and heart rate, you're a little bit hotter than usual. And you just feel like sleep is disrupted. Swelling, like swelling in the fingers, swelling in the legs, toes, just like feeling like Pillsbury Doughboy a little bit more often because cortisol dysregulation is linked to blood pressure regulation and also retention of fluids.

41:08So that would be another one. Lack of appetite or like a drop of appetite, because if you are overtraining, like if you look at this from like an evolutionary biological standpoint, in a state of famine or starvation or excess stress, your body wants to hold onto calories because it's unlikely that this is a time of like feasting and a time of caloric excess. So when that happens, what you would tend to see is like a drop in hunger or like not, and there's assuming you're not like a GLP agonist or something like that, but you're not as interested in food. You're not eating as much. You start to experience some of those things that might indicate like a little bit of a down regulation of the metabolic rate.

41:46And it's interesting because some of this stuff is like acute and then changes as it becomes chronic. So some people that were really paying attention to what I just said would think, okay, so Ben, what you're saying is like my heart rate's elevated and my body temperature is elevated. But then if my thyroid is dysregulated, doesn't that make like the body get colder and slow down metabolism? And that's what happens if you ignore all this stuff and just go for too long a period of time, then your body just starts to slow everything down. So it's like the early warning signs are tired and wired, elevated heart rate, elevated body temperature, but then, and lack of appetite, but then long-term it's like everything just starts to shut down and then you're cold and you're sluggish and your metabolism starts to slow.

42:30This is something I'm always like a little bit cautious to talk about because I think more people, maybe not your audience, I don't know. For the most part, more people need to hear like move more, eat less, lose weight. And there's fewer people that need to hear, don't go to the gym. It's a big, scary place and you're going to die of cortisol problems. Of overtraining, right? Yeah. I mean, that is an issue with some people. And I am serious that more people need to hear that because this is like back to the root of your question about mistakes that people make. People sometimes grasp at straws that aren't that important or try to fry a fish that isn't that big of a fish that you need to fry.

43:06And even though I love what is going on to a certain extent in Washington, D.C. with Make America Healthy Again, the Maha campaign and increasing awareness of like what's in our food and what ingredients are in the food supply. I think there's a lot of people almost like myopically focusing on artificial sweeteners and food dyes and even seed oils to a certain extent as being like the biggest problems when really like if we just told more people, kids especially, like get outside, move more, exercise more, eat less calories, understand the difference, you know, between how many calories are in, I don't know, like a Costco hot dog and a salad.

43:45Like those are the things that we need to be focusing on more. I'm not saying there's not some problems with what are petroleum in an ingredient, artificial sweeteners, but it's not that big of an issue, especially when it comes to weight loss. Like if I was coaching somebody for weight loss, I would much rather they be having like a sucralose acetylfamine potassium infused like stick packet that's 25 calories that makes them say like not stuff their face with an extra 600 calories because they're drinking some satiating synthetic compound, then I would have them be like, nope, that has artificial sweeteners in it.

44:20So I'm just going to go eat six apples. No, absolutely. At the end of the day, there is a calories in, calories out consideration of this stuff. I mean, that's what I was going to say to you. I mean, at the end of the day, we try to overcomplicate things that don't need that much complication or to your point, focus on the wrong things and not focus on the foundational things like move more, eat less. And at the end of the day, it is calories in, calories out. Like, you know, you can say, yeah. It's a huge part. It's a huge part of it. Yeah. You can say where you're getting your calories from and all these other things.

44:50But like, if that diet Coke is going to stop you from eating another, you know, large pizza, it's probably going to be okay for you to have. Yeah. Or just like, if I'm on an airplane and they're bringing out the airplane food, like I'll have a diet Coke just because I don't think about the airplane food. Right. Yeah. And then I'm not going to drink like, well, technically the law of diminishing returns for carcinogenicity of Diet Coke is like 77 of them in one sitting, like before you get into the cancer causing, you know, who's drinking that many, not a lot of people. And, and more like, granted, there's more recent research showing that the equivalent of two to three cans can cause anxiety, like in rodent models.

45:27And it was weird because they even showed like anxiety that gets passed onto the offspring, maybe, maybe aspartamies, like affecting genetics and sperm in some way. But again, it's a pretty far cry to correlate that to road miles and then tell somebody, Diet Coke is going to make you fat and unhealthy. They're a bigger fish to fry. They're a bigger fish to fry. What do you think of those machines, those people now, everyone's, it's all the rage. You put these electromagnetic things on your body and you work out with them and it stimulates the muscle. What do you think of that? Well, I mean, like the OG ones, like the as seen on TV, like six pack abs with the, like the stomach pulsing.

46:07Well, those pulsing, or not even that one so much, but like there's like these body suits now that you can wear. Yeah, yeah, but the original ones were like the abs. And for me, as somebody who like appreciates the value of hard work and blood, sweat, and tears and like getting the job done in the gym, I always thought it was kind of gimmicky. And then I actually tried one of the full body electrical muscle stimulation suits. And it's not a walk in the park. It's hard. Like to actually get like the muscle stimulation. A, it's a pretty significant contraction. B, it's a dashboard or a control unit that's bypassing your central governor, your brain, which sometimes forgets how to recruit certain motor units as you go through life.

46:49So all of a sudden you're using new muscles that you've never used before. So you're ungodly sore the next day. In many cases, it is like your body temperature goes to the roof because using a whole bunch of muscles all at the same time. it is it would fall into the category of like a biohack for muscle and they are effective i would say the downside is they're a little bit just inconvenient to get on and get in and out of and everything and they also if you're not careful can induce a pretty high amount of soreness and that's my problem is like whenever i'm doing a workout like i really want to feel it and yeah whenever i've used those ems suits i'm just like useless for days really yeah i well this is funny I don't know if you're like this, but sometimes if I've got like an international flight or a period of time where I know I'm going to be sedentary, I'll crush a really hard workout before that.

47:38Just so I'm just like less antsy. I'm like, you know, obviously I'm afraid. And you can't work out now anyway. You're sitting there. And I'll use an electrical muscle stimulation suit before something like that. Cause I know I'm just like, dude, I'm gonna be so sore. I'm not going to want to work out anyways. And so I'll use it before a period of time where I know I'm going to be like super sedentary. I like that. It's a good little hack. Give me some of all the things you've done. what is the one thing that you think is like extremely effective that like the one biohack that's like what that would shock people and and the one that's like so useless that like you know you kind of like were into years ago or that's overhyped that there's no bang for their buck like a buy like a technology or just anything practice or anything well because you're like a guinea pig you've tried you try everything yeah i would say that so so let's cut straight to the useless since we were just talking about fat, any of those like so-called thermal burning agents, like pre-workouts that amp up fat oxidation or anything like that.

48:35It is true that like green tea extract, you know, the EGCG, caffeine, any of these central nervous stimulants, they do shift the body into a state of higher fat oxidation, but it's such a small bump that like you're never going to lose any appreciable amount of weight using some kind of like a thermic burning agent. So that would be one that I'm still surprised at seeing those marketed like raspberry ketone extract or whatever. And then something surprising that I think might also be kind of like controversial as well is I think GLP agonists are some of the most useful weight loss compounds that we've ever developed through science and can be incredibly helpful for people who have difficulty controlling their appetite, who want to lose weight, who want to manage lipids, who want to like decrease liver.

49:25enzymes. There's even evidence now with effects on neural inflammation. And I actually think they're really useful drugs. I think they're prescribed in a dosage that's too high. Like if you were to go to a doctor and just get a standard prescription for like redditrutide or something like that, it's such a high dose that you get nauseous and you lose all enjoyment. Like it's almost like amhedonic for life in general. Like you lose just like the dopaminergic response to not just food, but a lot of things, which is why depression is one of the side effects of some of these drugs. And it slows gastric motility.

49:58So you get constipation and gastric upset and you lose muscle because even though you hear you're supposed to go to the gym and lift weights and eat enough protein, if like your favorite like protein smoothie or steak makes you just super nauseous and want to throw up, you're not going to eat enough protein. Then you go to the gym and you feel flat because you're not eating enough calories. Then you don't want to lift weights. But smaller dosages, we're talking like, for example, like one 10th of the dose of something like retitrutide, it's like just enough of a stimulus to where somebody who has difficulty controlling calories can resist food much better than they would be able to do in the absence of that and not have a ton of the other side effects.

50:37And because there's a lot of other and an emerging body of research proven system-wide effects of some of these agonists, I think that they're actually like pretty cool and useful new thing for a lot of people. So you're talking about the one that it works on the three receptors, right? Reditrutide does. Yeah, it works on GLP. A few different hormone or appetite and satiate. Do they compound? Satiety regulating mechanisms. GLP, ghrelin, and one called GIP. How is that different than trisepatide? I think trisepatide is a dual agonist. So it's two. It's two. So ozempic is like old school. Yeah. Then you have trisepatide.

51:17I think it's one. Oh, is that big as one? And there's a new one that's coming out of like five. Five? Yeah. What is that one called? I don't even remember. I can tell you it's probably hard to pronounce. I can definitely say that. We're at that true tide. It's hard enough. It is. And they compound that already? You can, like, if you work with a good functional medicine doc who can get stuff like that from a compounding pharmacist. Oh, really? There's a new company called Pepsual that's doing, like, you get on the phone with a doctor and you have, like, a consult with a doctor. and then they can prescribe you peptides after that, but they're not like the sold for human research peptides.

51:53Like they're actually like clean peptides.

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53:49So you believe in the microdosing, microdosing at a really small amount for all. If you just want to turn off the food noise, what would you say the dose should even be? I'm not a doctor but you play one and I can't take anything that I take as medical advice okay what would you do if it were me theoretically I would inject like 250 micrograms of redditrutide on like Monday Wednesday and Friday and then just see what happens and most people will find that they have way better calorie control really but that's how is it oh and we should also say this though like back to like the people who risk overtraining there are risks of like if you have an eating disorder and you struggle with anorexic or body image issues and you actually need to gain weight and you look in the mirror and you think you're fat, but you're actually not and you look fine or you're too skinny, this would be a bad idea for you.

54:44Right. But people don't know anymore if they are or not. That's the problem. If you're anorexic, you don't see yourself as anorexic a lot of times. That's the problem. So what I'm saying is I just know there's probably at least one person who's like, are you going to hurt a lot of people putting advice like this out? I will admit that if you have an eating disorder, These are not good compounds to be around. No, they're terrible compounds to be around. But if you have not looked around, have you not noticed that everybody is thin now? I feel like everybody's taking a GLP-1. I've noticed that a lot.

55:13I live in North Idaho, not LA. Okay, we don't live in LA. I don't live in LA. But I do know of the phenomenon that you're talking about, and I've observed it mostly in pop culture. And I think there are a lot of people on these. I mean, like, again, like, if you're not losing muscle and you're in your, but I think many of the people you're talking about are on a standard dose, they probably are losing muscle. Well, this is what I'm concerned about. What happens when you get off of these things? If you're, even if you're microdosing, right? Like, is this something that people have to stay on forever?

55:44Like, what happens if, you know, after a year, they're very expensive, these things, right? So let's see after a year, like, how do you titrate off this thing? Are you going to gain all the weight back? Because you're not really changing the behavior. you're just changing your ability to think about it at that moment because you're medicated. My response might be a little surprising, but I think that's less of a risk than you would imagine. Because even though at the standard high dosages, the yo-yo weight gain is definitely an issue. Because if you go from being super nauseous, I want to throw up around food, and it finally goes away, and you're like, thank God I can have a steak.

56:20I get that, and there could be yo-yo weight gain related to that. But if we're talking about what I was just recommending, like microdosing, it's like training wheels. Like if, if you have gone for such a long period of time being obsessed with food and you've almost forgotten what it feels like to not think about food all the time. And then you do something for four or eight or 12 weeks that retrained your brain, how to not think about food all the time. And then you stop using that, you still maintain the recognition of or the sense of what it feels like to not be hungry or what it feels like to resist a food.

56:58What's your take on that? And I'm actually talking about this from personal experience. Like I have for almost a year now, mess around with these things, like just as self-experimentation, because like when you pick a lot of stuff, like I've taken a standard dose just to see what that feels like for a week. And it's horrible. And I've taken the baby doses and then just like not taking them at all. And I can tell you, like, if you take a baby dose and it suppresses hunger mechanisms and then you stop using it, it really is like training rules. You're like, oh, like, even though I'm not on this anymore, I've taught myself that I wasn't eating that cheesecake because I was hungry.

57:27I was eating it just because I had poor satiety mechanisms and I don't actually need to eat that. Right. So you kind of remember. Yeah. But then eventually, don't you go back to then just old patterns and old behaviors. I don't know. But think about it like electrical muscle stimulation. It's like if I use an EMS suit to cheat my brain into firing, let's say, a muscle that a lot of people forget how to use, like the glute medius, and then I quit using electrical muscle stimulation, my body now remembers that that muscle is turned back on and I can start using it more when I'm doing squats and lunges and band walks or whatever in the gym.

58:02So I think that in many cases in like exercise and fitness and nutrition, you can use a little bit of better living through science for training wheels. I mean, people even do this with sex, right? Like they'll use Viagra to induce an erection in a man who doesn't have true erectile dysfunction, but who just has like this mental block to getting an erection. And then once a guy realizes that, oh, I can actually get it up, I'm not broken, you can actually taper off the Viagra and they don't have the erectile issues anymore. Yeah, I guess that's true, right? Like you're just kind of like proving to yourself that you can do it in a way or showing yourself that you can do it.

58:39Yep. That makes sense to me. Yeah. Because do you have food noise though? Because you said, I can't imagine. Do I personally have food noise? Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like it's – And you know what? I don't anymore. You don't? I don't anymore and I think it's because of GLPs. So it just stopped recently because of the fact that you're microdosing? Yeah. Really? even when I'm not using it. Like just being able to just like go, you probably know the feeling like walking into a restaurant with a bunch of friends and you're starving, like let's order, appetizer, get the food out here. Now it's just like, or I, for example, can just like sit there and talk for 45 minutes and not be like scanning the menu frantically to make sure that when they come, I'm able to get the order in.

59:23And again, like you do have to be careful because you can under eat. But you're someone who's like, you have to do all these things to keep weight on. So I would think that someone like you would not have that food noise because you can technically eat whatever you want and nothing happens to you. I can eat a lot of food and gain weight. But then at the same time, the best way I can explain this is that constantly thinking about food can be distracting. Like when you're just like thinking about or planning your next meal. Like it is just a little bit distracting. And it's nice to be able to sit down to a meal when you've actually found the time and it's convenient enough to eat and eat and eat enough because you're not nauseous.

1:00:00but also have the ability to be able to like go a few hours and do some podcasts or whatever and not feel like you just, you have to eat. Yeah. Right. No, like it's a little hard to describe unless you're not, but. It's the anxiety piece of it that gets taken away. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I'm careful not to under eat. Well, I mean, when you started all this, this whole thing, like 20 years, like when did you start all this like guinea pigging stuff? Like 20 years ago, 15 years ago? Like probably when I was bodybuilding in college. Because like bodybuilding is one of like the OG biohacking sports where you're trying different pre-workouts.

1:00:40Like the gateway drug. I never did like drug, drug just because I couldn't afford them. You know, I was like a poor college student doing creatine and tuna fish, putting relish in the tuna fish to keep it low carb and like, you know, dipping hot dogs in peanut butter. I mean, just like the cheapest calories I can get away with. But then there's also like certain pre-workouts. So you're like, oh, what happens to the body? I've had 10 grams of creatine instead of five. And then going from that into Ironman triathlon, where you're just trying out a whole bunch of different things to survive out there for 10 hours.

1:01:09Right. And then open water swimming and adventure racing and obstacle course racing. A big part of it for me has been fueling and feeding extreme sports and using that as a testing ground. And then eventually for me, just like being an influencer and a podcaster and an author, it's a little bit of my prerogative now to just try things out to be able to report back from almost like an immersive journalistic standpoint about what works. Is it weird to you, like the evolution of like your career? Like did you ever think this is what you'd be doing when you were 16 years old or 18 years old? No. No.

1:01:46So I think it's a good idea. If you look at, for example, the habits of many of the founding fathers, and there's a great book about this called The Pursuit of Happiness. One of the things that many of them and many high achievers and successful people value the most is time. And if you value time as much as, if not more than money, then you do plan out your days pretty strictly. like in terms of habit and routine and structure. And I am a creature of habit in that sense. But I also, from like a long-term business standpoint, keep myself pretty open to opportunities. Not meaning I say yes to everything.

1:02:30I say no to a lot. But I have never, for better or worse, had a 10-year plan of where I want to be from a business and a career standpoint. Because I find that if I structure my days to be highly effective and efficient, to do lots of deep work, to not fritter away a lot of time, you know, doom scrolling and non-social media and engaging with pop culture, I can get a lot done. And when the opportunities come my way that I feel like I want to seize, I've got the ability to be able to seize them. And so, no, like I never had a plan of like having a podcast for a long time or writing a bunch of books or - These are not books.

1:03:07These are manuals. Or tomes, whatever you want to call them. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, it is, it is kind of fun to, to be a little bit open. And at the same time, like, like I'm never going to be a mega billionaire with that approach. Like if you really want to be uber wealthy, you have to have like long-term business plan and be building to sell. And, you know, I have companies where we're a little bit more focused on that. Like my supplements company, like Keon, we actually have like really good long-term plans and growth plans and forecasting. If we're just like me as a brand, I don't know about you, but it's kind of fun to keep things just like a little bit loose, loosey goosey.

1:03:40Yeah, Lucy. But you've become, like, you've created a niche that there's not many people in, like, biohacking that you can really call to. Like, when I think of a biohacker, I think of you or your friend, right? So I think there's only a few people that's, like, are doing this thing with real gusto. And I wanted to always know what the trajectory, like, if you didn't do this, what were you thinking you were going to do? Like, you were doing these Ironmans, and you're living in Idaho, and you got a bunch of kids. Everyone seems to be so surprised, by the way. I only have two kids. Well, I guess two more than people thought.

1:04:16I have twins. You have twins? Two kids all at once. Yeah, I have twins, 17-year-old boys. I thought you had three. No, that I know of. We have two. We have goats and chickens and kids. You have goats and chickens living on a farm. I mean, what would you have done if this didn't work out for you? Honest answer is the one thing that I always love to do and knew that I would do in some way somehow is to teach. I love to learn new things, not just for the sake of learning new things, but to teach people. You can see it. I like to see people's eyes light up when they understand some concepts. And so, like, honestly, if you want to look at this from just like a a formal understandable standpoint, I probably would have been a teacher in some way or another.

1:05:03But you are kind of a teacher. Yeah. Like, so you're basically doing all of these things kind of like, and like you, you come back to people and say this, but you do so many things. So then what would be like, because over the years, I mean, I'm just trying to think of all the wacky things I've seen you do and put on and the sleep mechanisms. And like, would you say most of those things are kind of like - I'm just waiting for the red light on the balls question. It always comes up. What's the craziest thing you did to your crotch? Yeah. What was the craziest thing you've ever experimented with?

1:05:34There are so many things that I don't think are that crazy because I just live in this world. But a few examples would be I went to the only state where it's legal, Texas, and had my plasma taken out and replaced with 10 bags of young 18 to 25 year old healthy male donor plasma as like a full oil change for my body. I have gone under anesthesia in Utah several times and done a full body stem cell procedure where they inject everything, toe to head to hair to sex organs to everything with basically a stem cell soup. I've gone to Tijuana, Mexico and had all of my blood pulled out via the, what's it called in your neck, the jugular neck and pass through a filter that pulls out like spike proteins and anything that's basically built up in your body and then had that over the course of three days re-infused back into my body.

1:06:33I've had stem cells injected just about everywhere that you can imagine. And those are a few of the things that I've done. One that's super interesting is I've done something that some people might've heard of called a stellate ganglion nerve block where a doctor uses ultrasound guided imaging to direct the super long needle right next to your carotid artery. So you need to be super careful and injects it like a nerve block right into your vagus nerve on one side. And then because it's pretty much impossible to swallow or chew, if you do both sides at once, the next day you go in and you do the other side and it completely resets your entire vagus nerve.

1:07:12And you set up from the table film, like you've like smoked the joint and had a glass of wine all at once. And your HRV just goes through the roof for a couple of weeks. Because normally this is something that they would do for somebody who has extreme PTSD, for example. But it's also just good for relaxing the nervous system. And then there was about an eight-year stint where I did very high amounts of just about every psychedelic and entheogen known to humankind in very large amounts just to see what they did to the brain. Like which ones? And which one was the best one? I wouldn't say that any of them are that great.

1:07:46Really? Well, I'll come right out and say that I think that it's a very dangerous place to be taking heroic doses of large amounts of psychedelics because traditionally they've been used to divine with the spirit world. And I actually believe that you like cross a spiritual portal and you can get exposed to different entities and interact with demons, angels, spirits, etc. And that's a dangerous place for a human being to be. And that's one of the reasons that I don't mess around with any of that stuff anymore. Besides like occasionally, you know, microdosing with psilocybin or something like that.

1:08:16So the craziest one is not one, but there is a place that very few people know about based a little bit outside of Nashville, Tennessee, out in the sticks. This giant mansion with barbed wire fences all over it and a giant sign on the gates that says, we don't call the cops. And they have several people who work there who have undergone some pretty intensive training and are able to expertly combine like a whole bunch of different entheogens together to almost turn default or downregulate the default mode network while simultaneously turning your brain into like a supercomputer. And then your entire experience for anywhere from six to like 30 hours in some cases is recorded as you're talking.

1:09:02And I did that eight times over the course of three years. And that was probably the just the craziest in terms of like piles and piles and piles of papers and reams of material just like written from my brain being a totally different state. What does it say? And now, you know, just like business ideas, relationship ideas, different breakthroughs, you know, dealing with history of past things, you know, the reason that a lot of people do these things. But again, like I'm not saying this to brag about having like done lots of drugs or something like that or even to endorse that in most cases for most people.

1:09:44What I mean is that it's much better in most cases to climb to the top of Mount Everest rather than being dropped off by a helicopter on top of Mount Everest. And a lot of people will hear me say something like that and not do the work, things like prayer and fasting and working on your relationships. And there's like, yes, I want to go do the drugs and get rid of the issues. And that's why you see a lot of people going back to Peru for their 38th ayahuasca retreat to finally fix their issues. So I'm not saying that this stuff is like recommended, safe, a permanent solution. You asked me about crazy stuff that I've tried and done.

1:10:17And there was a phase where I used a lot of those kind of compounds. And how long, like what did it do to your brain and how long were you affected? When you did that thing in the sticks in Nashville, what was the cocktail of things that they gave you? And do you remember or did you use any of the ideas that you saw that you wrote like in your life, in real life? I want to say the cocktail stuff. I just don't know about boundaries and legality and stuff like that. It's many of the entheogens that you would know about, like, you know, wachuma and lesergemides and psilocybin and ayahuasca and even a lot of different synthetics, but kind of combined in a very precise fashion based on you and your needs and your body weight and your size and what it is you're looking for, et cetera.

1:11:06Do you do it by yourself, by the way? a few times. And then I've also done it six times with my wife. And it actually was like really, really, really, really, really deep into our relationship to do something like that together. And again, like I'm super cautious here because I also don't want to like have somebody who's going through a relationship issue and be like, oh, it's time to go like to Tennessee and do drugs. But maybe it could be helpful actually. Because people don't know what's out there if they don't know. Like the thing that you're speaking about, I don't think I've ever heard of it.

1:11:38And I hear lots of things, right? So it kind of flies under the radar also because it's not legal. It's like one of the reasons I'm being cautious here is like, I don't want to get people in trouble. Right. Because I mean, it's not as though people aren't doing this stuff in the US. So it happens, but I just want to be kind of careful. I would say that as far as the effects, So you could make an argument that the long-term effects of many of these entheogens or psychedelics when used properly can be long-term neuroplasticity and a changing of the brain that makes you less of a ruminator or less anal retentive or less OCD or less ADD or less of an asshole.

1:12:17And I would say that I actually experienced many of those types of effects, just like the ability to be able to like think more creatively, act more freely and be back to the creature of habit thing, which is a good thing, but like a little bit more free flowing in that respect. But I would say like of anything, like the number one thing that I got out of all of that stuff, if I could name one, was being able to, back to the training wheels piece, like talk to my wife about anything and just like be super transparent and honest with her and her with me and just see each other as like actual real infinite spirits and souls and us doing something like that.

1:13:02You hear about MDMA therapy. It would be kind of like a baby version of that. Or MDMA therapy would be like a baby version of what we did. And it definitely transformed our relationship. I think that it's not the only way that we could have transformed our relationship. That's just the, you know, I have a pastor who says, God draws straight with crooked lines, right? And that just happens to be the way that we got to where we are right now. But again, like, you know I'm being super cautious right now. Yes, you're looking down, you're very uncomfortable. I'm thinking about my words carefully. Just because drugs can be so dangerous for so many people, depending on your spiritual health, on your psychological health.

1:13:43So just like the GLPs and everything else. A lot of this stuff is just because I'm talking about something I did in Guinea Pig doesn't mean I recommend it for everybody. Right, this is not being recommended for the average person. I understand that. Do not take anything as advice. Do not. Because you said it perfectly. Like people can either climb Mount Everest or they want to get dropped on top of it, which is so true. Like this is someone who's done everything and is like basically uses his career in life to be like a professional guinea pig. So like you're like not the same. Like if you're sticking like massive needles in your, you know, your jugular, that's not.

1:14:19Well, I didn't do a doctor, did it? Well, not you personally. Meanwhile, you were going to do your own IV outside. So I mean. I have done that. Well, there you go. So I'm saying like you're not the normal, the average person. right? Why did you do it? If it helped you and your wife's relationship, why did you do it six times? Why didn't you just do it once and like be done? Why did you do it over and over? Because it was so profound and deepening our relationship that we came back and did it several times also as a part of that particular organization. You're kind of like supposed to do it multiple times.

1:14:56It's kind of like a build phase. And then one of the reasons that I just hinted at that I stopped doing it was because I realized, and this is one of the only podcasts in a really long time that I've even talked about this stuff. I realized that for every nine people that it might help, there's one person who gets super psychologically or spiritually messed up from this stuff. And so now I'm really careful saying, oh, go to entheogens and pharmacological psychedelics and ayahuasca and go find God with DMT just because I think these are the nuclear bombs of the spiritual world. And you have to be way more careful with this stuff than what a lot of people think.

1:15:42Right. You said something also about crossing over, like you said, the spirits and angels and all that. Like, what do you mean by that? You mean like that's what's dangerous? Like you people are doing these things and it's like entering into a different universe and they don't even know it? The way that humans have traditionally interacted with the spiritual world and pierced the veil and crossed the portal is typically via the use of some kind of chemical compound. Puts the brain into a state where I personally don't believe it's just a soup of different neurochemicals, but I believe you are actually crossing into a different dimension.

1:16:23And the fact that people from so many different walks of life who have never spoken to each other, see similar elements of sacred geometry, see similar entities like purple fairies and fairies and praying mantises, have similar experiences, encounter each other in that space, even without knowing that each other were in that space, like seeing each other's spirits in that world. Some people coming back, uh, literally like possessed with almost like an entity or a demon on board. People being able to go to like South America and keep getting pulled back there because, you know, a shaman or someone who has the ability to be able to do this as someone like cursed or possess them.

1:17:09And even if you look at like, here's a perfect example, like astral travel, like the ability to be able to go somewhere else in your mind while your body is in one place. LSD would be one of the traditional methods with which elements of the world of sorcery and witchcraft have done that. A witch riding on a broom, the stereotypical Halloween silhouette image of a witch riding on a broom is influenced by the fact that women sorcerers used to dip their brooms in a lysergemide, like an LSD-like compound, and then apply that vaginally for the rapid absorption to then be able to travel mentally to a different world to be able to interact with different beings, including the spiritual world.

1:17:54You know, now it's like a witch riding on a broom, but that was where that originally came from. So if you talk with someone who's done like, I don't know, like ayahuasca or a heroic dose of psilocybin or especially DMT, there's very few people who do something like that and come back denying the existence of a spiritual world, especially if they were like an atheist before that. Because you really do cross over this portal where you realize like there's a whole different dimension around us that we can't see in our native state, but that certain chemical compounds that grow on this planet or that are synthesized allow us to be able to delve into and interact with.

1:18:32Do you know, have you ever heard of this place? It's called Rhythmia. Have you been there before? I bet you have. No, I haven't been there. Oh, you haven't been there? I'm familiar with it. Oh. They sent me there. They invited me to go there. This is like five years ago. And I went there with my sister. And I think, just why not? I thought, oh, it'd be something fun to try. It'd be a fun little vacation. And what it is, basically, you're doing ayahuasca for a week. To say it was not my cup of tea is probably an understatement. But it didn't, the weird thing has been that we did it like you do it five nights in a row.

1:19:07And they give you your portion and every night it's a different type of ayahuasca. But it didn't, I didn't feel it any of the nights. I didn't get me like I was, so what they do is they put you in that big room. You're with a bunch of people, strangers. You're stuck there between 12, like for 12 hours. Everyone's tripping and people were demonic. That's what I was going to say to you. It was really actually very scary because I'm lying there like, oh my God, this is so not for me. It's not working. And they won't let you leave because it's like, I think, a danger to that. It's like a risk for them.

1:19:41But I'm sitting there and there's like a million people in this room who are literally like screaming and crying and barfing and like pooping. It was unbelievably insane to me. and in my head, I'm like, they have to be, like they're literally out of their minds. They're like in another place because in real, no matter how high you are, no matter how drunk you are, people don't act and respond like that. It just doesn't happen. I've never seen a human with like, other than in that situation, be that like out of their minds. Like seriously, it's crazy. So is that why these things tend to like help people with trauma?

1:20:26Like, are they seeing things that are otherwise unable to see because they're not in the right dimension to like heal themselves? Does that make sense? A lot of hard charging high achievers who like, no offense, are sometimes wired up to be like very controlling. That's one of the reasons that like they are successful, have probably like you experienced a little bit more difficulty, like turning off the brain, downregulating the default mode network. And in many cases, there is training and pre-integration that's involved to actually help to teach you how to do that. Or in some cases, people will just like carpet bomb you with more of the substance, which has biochemical implications for days and days afterwards.

1:21:08I think it's better to just like, you know, do things like breath work that teach you how to be comfortable in that space before you go in so that the standard dose is able to shift you into the state that. So have you ever heard of this before? Yeah. You have? No, I'm not the first person to tell you that. Oh, no, no. Like, that would be roughly translated as what would be called in the world of psychedelics, like the ability to be able to let go, right? And many people just, ego is on board and it's very hard to let the ego not be on board because that is a feeling that takes you out of the safety and control that is part of your success and that you've grown to become dependent on.

1:21:51But that if you're looking for the breakthroughs, like physically or more appropriate, like mentally or spiritually from something like that, like at some point you have to turn off that part of the brain and just let go to get the breakthroughs that you want. And related to the trauma piece, sometimes it is the ability of compounds like that to be able to train the brain how to let go of the control and how to understand once again what it feels like not to be gripping tightly and clutching tightly and to know that's a safe place that one doesn't need to be afraid of. But I think probably when it comes to trauma, and again, I'm no psychedelic expert.

1:22:37I'm just not something I was like, I don't have a degree and mushrooms. But the ability in that state to be able to access past memories and then process them when you are not in a state of full control is one of the things that they attribute to like the success of something like that, being able to help someone release past traumas or deal with them as they come up again. It's kind of like stem cells. If you were to go to that place in Utah that I went to and get a full body stem cell procedure, you get all sorts of aches and pains from all the old injuries that the stem cells just like reinitiate.

1:23:25Your body remembers all that inflammation. The stem cells go to battle to help to fix those areas that were never fully fixed. Whereas kind of similar with something like psychedelics, they open up memories of these traumas that you just haven't given yourself a chance to deal with in the past and open them up when your brain is in a state where it's far more receptive to seeing those things in a new light and dealing with them. But then why are people going back over and over again? Like, why doesn't it cure somebody or it does help them for, let's say, a while? And then like, I'm just talking about my friends who gone and done it and it worked on them.

1:24:03They were fine and it worked and helped them, but then they went back again and again and again. Comes down to the getting dropped off by a helicopter at the top of Mount Everest piece rather than learning how to climb Mount Everest. You have to get to a point where you understand that life is full of incidents that cause shame and guilt and fear. and there will always be times in your life when things come up that leave you feeling less worthy, leave you feeling full of shame, leave you feeling guilty about something you've done or about something someone's done to you. And one of the ways to deal with that is to write a check, get on a plane, pop a pill, and try to nuke it once again.

1:24:51And now I'm speaking from a very biased perspective because I'm also a man of faith. And I believe that, and this is what I love about the Christian faith in particular, is that is a faith of forgiveness. Meaning, no matter what you've been through, no matter how horrible of a person you think you are, no matter how horrible the things are that have been done to you. The Jesus Christ figure in Christianity is there because the story of Christianity is that God sent a sacrificial lamb to die on the cross, which was a very painful thing to happen, but that happened so that we can then take all that shame and fear and guilt and just let it go by, for example, just dropping to our knees and praying that God would release it and laying all of that at the foot of the cross.

1:26:03There's a beautiful book about this called Pilgrim's Progress by this guy that was just struggling with this huge backpack, this burden for years. And then in a part of the story, he gets to the base of this hill where there's a cross and all of a sudden the heavy burden just comes tumbling off his back and he stands up and he's light and he's free. And even though psychedelics can do something like that, it's temporary. It's never permanent. And I think the only way to truly get rid of shame and guilt and fear in a permanent way is through an interaction with the divine in a way that goes beyond just drugs and in a way that goes to more of the Christian idea of just pure forgiveness, no matter who you are, and knowing that you are free to leave that and get rid of it because someone else has taken it for you.

1:26:56Wow, that was a big answer. And what happens if you're not Christian and you're Jewish or another religion what happens what happens to what to us to us Jews or to anybody who's not like a Christian person is it that we have to you could you say you're a man of faith and all these things but you are and is your message mostly for people to believe in something bigger and themselves. Right. And to, yeah, to, to believe that like you as a human being can be forgiven and not carry shame and guilt and fear around your whole life, because there is a divine being who wrote a greater story for your life.

1:27:45And that divine being loves you enough to accept you for who you are, not that you should like want to continue or continue to be like a bad person because of that, but who loves you for who you are. And that's why I think that not just spirituality, but religiosity, like having it like woven into your life in some way. We have that in the Jewish world. It's like a very freeing way to live, just to know there's a greater purpose for your life, and no matter what, you are unconditionally loved. Yeah, we have that in the Jewish world where I believe in having a higher, believing in something higher than yourself as well.

1:28:23But we have something called, it's like, it's a Yom Kippur. It's like what we do too. It's like when you're repenting and all the things like that. I do agree with you. I think that's really important to like, it kind of closes the entire pie. It's like very much not like, I think it's, I see when people don't have any of that in their lives, there's a lack of something, right? And there's a searching for something. Right. The eternal hole in the soul. Like, you want to be filled by something eternal. Exactly. Because there's, like, this gnawing that, wait, you're telling me we're a bunch of, like, chunks of flesh and blood just, like, floating on a giant rock through space.

1:28:57And then, like, at the end of the day, like, you just kick the can one day and it's game over. And it's over. And that's it. And to me, that's kind of, like, a hopeless way to live versus, like. It is. There's like a divine being that created the planet and there's immortality and an afterlife. And there's way more to life than just like you and me being here for 80 or 90 or for like the best little biohackers, like 150 years. Like I find that a really, really hopeful and happy way to live just to know that there's like something greater outside of me and like a greater purpose written for my life.

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1:30:59Have you gotten more into faith and religion as you got older, or did you grow up like this? I grew up in a Christian church, like a Christian house. But I think going through the hard knocks of life, just experiencing, living paycheck to paycheck and trying to make ends meet and trying to find your purpose in life and making marriages work and raising kids, I think that all of that develops faith. I mean, there's a saying that gold is refined through fire. And I think that as you grow, especially through hardships, that it, like, without a doubt, for me personally, like, that has deepened my faith.

1:31:44For some people, like, weakens their faith. Like, there must not be a God if all these bad things are happening to me. But my perspective is that in many cases, you know, bad things happen so that the good things can shine through at an even higher level. Yeah. I mean, I like that. I mean, it's good to think that way, right? It's a very optimistic way of seeing things. By the way, I know it's been like, how many hours have we been? It's like hours. I didn't ask you anything about like testing. Like I did this environmental toxicity test. Did you ever take one of these tests before? And it says that I have like super high arsenic poisoning.

1:32:28Yeah. Do you find these tests to be accurate? How important do you think these tests are? What are some of the tests that you think are the most important thing people should do for their health? For the environmental toxin test, the only thing I can tell you is try it again under a different name and see what happens. What do you mean? And I say that because they can be kind of notorious for giving you wildly varying results from test to test. Really? Now, the thing that we do know is we live in a toxic environment and it's always a good idea to be causing mold, mycotoxins, microplastics, but I would not put all your faith into a test like that.

1:33:03The test that I think you can get good data from is just like once in a lifetime, a genetic test just to see what kind of stuff you're hardwired up to potentially get a disease for preventively. Basic blood panel. I do like once a quarter just to look at lipids and vitamins. Yeah. You know, just like the standard complete blood count, comprehensive metabolic panel type of stuff. Some kind of test once a year for micronutrients that the basic blood panel wouldn't cover. This would be, for example, there's one called metabolomics. Look at fatty acids and amino acids, fungal markers, and little micronutrients that a basic blood test won't give you.

1:33:41Some type of hormone panel. uh i think blood will give you a snapshot but saliva and urine can give you a little bit more of like a 24-hour running cycle of your hormones because hormones do fluctuate throughout the day um and then the last couple i would think about would be basically everybody's favorite some kind of a poop test like a school is that the dutch no dutch is urine uh there's one called the genova diagnostics that'll do like yeast parasites fungus bacterial balance and i think that's good to do even just like once a year or like as symptoms arise, if you've been traveling or whatever, you know, and you want to see if you got a parasite because you come back from Asia and you've got diarrhea or something like that.

1:34:19Okay, but the poop test, like what is the poop test test for? Bacterial balance, inflammation in the gut, yeasts, parasites, fungal markers, clues for whether or not you might have leaky gut or gut permeability issues. It's a pretty good test. But people don't just get it. Usually like a functional medicine doctor would prescribe it if necessary, right? There are some websites where you can like start an account and order some of these to your house. But usually a functional medicine doc is going to order most of these tests. And the last one I'd like think about would be like a good food allergy test.

1:34:52Not one that's going to give you like a laundry list of false positives. But like Zoomer is a good one. Cyrex, C-Y-R-E-X, that's a good one. So if I'm like coaching somebody and writing out their nutrition plan and their training plan and everything, It's usually like those five or six tests that I recommend that they get for me to be able to sit down with that and then like maybe some wearable data like a blood glucose and an aura or a whoop or something like that. That usually gives me quite a bit of information to say, okay, well, here's a relatively customized way for you to supplement, eat, move, exercise, et cetera.

1:35:28I have to ask you about your skin. I do all the time. But your skin's really nice. Thank you. And it looks like a baby's behind. It's really like smooth and young looking. What are you doing? With tire streaks on it. No, there's nothing. I think it's genetics personally, but is there any kind of trick that you can tell us about how to look 10 years younger that you've tried? Rapid Fire, besides using one of those face age apps to look 10 years younger, would be underlying building blocks for skin. So earlier we were talking about things like collagen, amino acids, protein absorption, anything that's going to help with the building blocks for the skin.

1:36:10Do you believe – hold on. I'm going to do rapid fire. Do you believe in collagen supplements? Yes. You think that helps? I think if you want really good skin, if you do like 20 to 40 grams of collagen and up to 20 grams of essential amino acids a day, that's good for the skin. Something that will increase blood flow to the skin, and there are different camps about this. Some people think a derma roller is just like ripping open the face. And like microneedling pens better. Idermarol, I've done it for like 10 years once a week. And then right after Idermarol, I use a clay mask. I use one made by a company called Ali Tora.

1:36:44And so I just leave that on for like 20 minutes. And then three times a week, I do a red light mask. Which is just like the, you've seen these before. Yeah, I use the Therislage one. Like Alien. The one I have is called, Therislage is good. Irestore, like the letter I restore is the one I'm using. Oh yeah, I saw that one. And then for – so basically once a week, derma rolling, clay mask, three times a week, the red light, good collagen, protein, and amino acids. And then the last thing besides just the basics like don't go out in the sun too much and burn your skin is for products. I use Young Goose.

1:37:20I use Young Goose. I think it's a really good skincare company because they have like these bioabsorbable anti-aging peptides. I feel like my face has gotten better since I started to use those. Really? Yeah, in a good way. Because I use Young Goose. I use their, yeah, they have like any, no, what do they have in it? Spermidine? Is that what it's called? What is spermidine? Apparently, it helps with DNA repair of the skin. Kind of like the salmon sperm facials that you can get now. Yeah, but isn't a lot of that stuff not, like, it's pretty hyped? Probably overhyped. Yeah. You know, especially just because salmon sperm facial probably sells a lot of procedures.

1:37:57But I do think, like, you can make a case that spermidine can have some anti-aging effects. on the skin. How about all those things? Yeah. I mean, I actually, I do like my Yungoos. I have like all like a bunch of their products. Actually, it's very, very nice. You were talking earlier about that plasma that you got taken. You got like a bunch of 25-year-old people. Plasma replacement therapy. The plasma replacement therapy. Is that the same thing that that don't die Brian Johnson did with his son? Yes, except I didn't use his son. Okay, good. But you used some other random person? Same procedure.

1:38:30But it's a different person. I don't know who it was. The bag just said healthy male 18 to 25-year-old donor plasma. But how do you know that's healthy? How do you know? Trust. So you could have some— The doctor said nobody's died there yet. Really? I mean, yeah, I trust the doctor. I vet these people. I just go to a random fly-by-night clinic and go through the nail salon in the back and get plasma. So that actually you did the same thing that he was doing? Yeah, it was the same. But you did it just one time? Yeah. But I would do it again. It's not inexpensive. How much is it? I think it's about said and done around$40 ,000.

1:39:07$40 ,000? Procedure, yeah. But I felt so good after doing it. It's one of those things where I would consider maybe every five years or something like that doing it. What does it do? You literally just feel – this is going to sound super broad, but you feel younger. You just like recover faster and you have higher libido and your head goes clear and you sleep better. It was one of the things I've done where like immediately I felt like unstoppable, almost like too good. Like I need more things to do type of energy. How long did it last? At that level, about four weeks. And then like, honestly, I did it like five months ago and I still feel like I feel better, just like younger.

1:39:51Do you think that's why, and I might even say this to like blow smoke up your ass, But do you think that's why you look young? Because you did something like that? I think a lot of this stuff just adds up. Because I've also done stem cells in the face and exosome facials. But I think the daily routine, like the daily in and out things that I do make a pretty big difference. Just derma rolling, clay mask, red light, peptides on the face. Just because you don't have to drive to a clinic and fly. And you do that every day? Some of them are not every day. Like derma rolling is once a week. Clay mask is once a week.

1:40:21Red light face masks three times a week. The Young Goose stuff, I never thought I'd use this many products, but I literally do. I get their brochure and I do exactly what it says. It's like some kind of serum, cream, lotion, like four things in the morning and four things in the evening. That's what I do too. I just nod and smile and do what it says. I do exactly the same thing. Okay. I think I can let you go now considering everyone's sleeping back behind you. Even all the Reddit True Tide in the world would make me not start thinking about dinner about now. You're so cute. Okay. By the way, Ben does have a new book out.

1:40:55It's actually a manual or an encyclopedia, whatever you'd like to call it. It's called Boundless. It's a revised version of his other book, Boundless, because his brand is called Boundless. It is literally an encyclopedia. It's unbelievably just there's so much information on exercise, on overall health optimization, brain, peptides, stem cells, energy, focus, vitality. I mean, it's just sex. We didn't even get to the sex part. There's so much gut bacteria, gut health. You guys, it's amazing. Everything that he does, he, well, look, nothing is like, it's everything. There's so much information.

1:41:33You guys have to pick the new one up because I think you revised it, what, five months ago or? Yeah. So Ben Greenfield, check him out if you don't know who he is. And what else, Ben? Anything else? I think we covered a lot. Okay. Bye everybody. Land the plane. Yeah. I'm landing it. Cool. Thanks guys. Okay, bye.