Episode 499: Kim Perell: Building a $235M Company from the Kitchen Table + Why Perfectionism Kills Success

24:22So you could have like an okay business model, but the founder is really like impressive and dynamic, you'll put your money there versus the opposite. it. Like you could have a stellar business model, but the founder's not that great. You're not really that stoked on them. You won't put, you will, you will not put money in. It's actually a 40 % change and you'll get a 20 % higher valuation if you like the guy or the girl. Oh, for sure. I think I look at three things when I invest. One is the, so three T's. One is the team, the founder and the people they have surrounding themselves. So they're like, I'm going to do it alone.

24:56You're not going to. So that's a huge red flag for me. If you just think, oh, this is my idea. I don't need a team or I don't care about my team. As a founder, you really need to care about your team. The second is a TAM, which is a total addressable market. I want to know there's a big market opportunity for me to make a lot of money. And I usually look for technology companies. Now, because I come from a tech background, it makes sense for me and my investment thesis. Obviously, I go outside of that depending on my own passion. So I'm really into health and wellness. Obviously, that makes the cut for Juni or some of the other companies that are aligned with my own personal values.

25:31Yeah. So you think that, so of the three that you just said, you said team, if you're going to make teams, number one, teams, number one, is there a big gap between number one and number two? If you don't have the, I mean, people first, then exactly what you're saying, people invest in people. So if you do not have the right people, it doesn't matter what business you're in. Yeah, no, I totally, I totally agree. I got to look at my thing now because I told you I'm blind and I can't see anything. But so let's go into something else that I think that you were talking about, the five traps that hold us back.

26:00Let's go through those. Besides the obvious one, I think fear holds us back. Yes. Well, and comfort holds us back. We're comfortable, right? And I think that goes back to the mistake of staying too long. And I mean, I've stayed too long in a job. I know so many people have stayed too long in a relationship and a job and they just stay because they're in these traps, these traps of comfort, loyalty, fear. I mean, there's so many traps, right, that they just can't get out of. And we look at all those in the book. And I think at the end of the day, there's two things that I recommend people do, which is one, really think about yourself and think about where you are in your situation and ask yourself if you're earning or learning.

26:43These two things. If you're not earning more money, and you should be, you should leave. And if you're not learning new skills, new opportunities, if you're not actually getting intellectual stimulation, you should go too. Else you're just trapped. Yeah. So those are really good ones. I really like the fact that I think that the loyalty is everyone can relate to that. Well, not everyone. If you have a heart and you have some kind of, it's hard not to. But you also, I think the other one is like, we are our own worst enemies, like conquering that inner critic kind of thing. I think you talk about that in the book because we can talk ourselves really in or out of anything.

27:24How do you suggest somebody can conquer their inner critic? I think it comes with action, to be honest. Action creates confidence. And I think you have to act in order to... And act by doing something that scares you and excites you, right? And that creates the confidence that I can do hard things, hard things that I didn't think I could do, hard things that scare me, hard things that I'm afraid of. But that gives you the confidence to think, okay, I did that. I could do it again. I mean, I have, and honestly, when I look at things that I'm like, oh my gosh, how am I going to be able to overcome this?

28:00I look back at all the things I've done previously, and that gives me confidence to push forward because I know I've overcome certain challenges on my own journey that gives me the confidence to know I can overcome new ones. So this is what I'm going to, I'm going to, I agree with you, but I'm going to push back for one second, right? Because you're somebody who comes from, you, you did it, you, you took a chance on yourself and it worked, right? Like you, you like had a payout and you had all these other successes to kind of build your confidence. Let's talk about the person who maybe did, who tried maybe once or twice and it didn't work out for them.

28:35They actually had failures that didn't kind of pay off yet. but yet they're still like itching to do something. How do you get somebody who has like now a poor track record to take a chance on themselves again? I mean, first of all, failing does not make you a failure. So you have to be able to separate those two things from your mind. And then you have to know, statistically speaking, if you failed once, you're actually twice as much, twice likely to be more successful. So great. We're now on the road to success. So I think knowing that gives you the confidence to say, I've actually been to, I hate rock bottom.

29:10You know, rock bottom is a great place to start again. And knowing statistically that you likely will be better because you learned, you know, what not to do. Yeah. Not always. Don't do that. And I think, but you do learn a lot through failure. And I think I've learned more from my failures than I have my successes. So let's talk about a couple of your failures again that have then led you to your biggest successes? Well, I've had so many failures and so many. Well, first of all, I talk about in the book, the mistake of partnering with the wrong people. Yeah, you know what? That's a great one to talk about.

29:42See, I'm very interested in all the, like the kind of like that type of thing, the interpersonal EQ parts, because to me that's what makes or breaks anything. You know, like picking the wrong people, staying too long because you're loyal. These are the things that really stumble, like stop people from getting to the next place. So let's talk about picking the wrong people. How do you pick well? Well, first I picked a lot of bad ones. Right? Like, yes. Yeah. So because, you know, people think that if they have a great resume, that's the perfect person for them, which is completely not true. Oh, my gosh.

30:17I talk about in the book, the POP, the perfect on paper. Oh, I have I've hired the perfect on paper. You know, they look so good. The resume is perfect. They came from the perfect background. They look perfect. Everything about, and then you get them in and they're terrible. That's like men also, actually. Yeah, probably, right? Yeah, it is. Or women too. Like that's the thing. Like it's like the sales representative is perfect. You know, they look perfect. They went to Harvard. They have this, they have the perfect job. They have the perfect pedigree, perfect family. And then in real life, they're awful.

30:49Oh, awful. And you're like, how did you get this far? But they look really good. I don't know. I got suckered in. I hired one and I talk about someone in the book that I hired and it was a disaster. Talk about the - Yeah. Disaster. So I hired a head of sales many years ago and he looked perfect, literally perfect. And I was so excited because I needed a new sales lead and this is such an crucial position. You know what the red flags were though is when I asked for references, and I think references are really good, he always had an excuse like, oh, the person left or, you know, these excuses of why I couldn't find or call or verify.

31:26But the resume looked great. But the reference, and I kind of let it slide, right? Okay. The person, you know, it seemed plausible. You know, it's funny you say the references. I don't trust that from as far as I can throw it because anyone could put any Tom, Dick or Harry on there. You call them. They're not going to say, they're not going to put a reference down that would say anything bad about them. They're going to obviously pick people. It could be their brother for all you know, or their sister, and they can call, you know, who will obviously say nice things about them. So I think that the referencing is a total farce.

31:58But if you ask around, it's so interesting because I did pick the wrong people and then people said, I could have told you once I let them go. They're like, why didn't you just ask me? And I'm like, I don't know. I didn't, I don't know. Do you know what I find, I found recently now because of the internet, the World Wide Web? Yes. If someone talks a big game and then you can't find anything about them online in terms of like, no, I'm not talking social media. I'm talking like, you know, in like, in like business stuff. I agree. Online. That's a red flag. Red flag for sure. If you don't have a LinkedIn profile and you're trying to get a job, red flag.

32:30Red flag. Amen. I also feel, and tell me if you agree, that a lot of times like it's a gut thing, right? Like I can meet people recently even like who we were saying like who have the perfect pedigree. They went to Wharton. They did this. They did that. and then I met someone who barely even has a college, no college, have like a high school diploma, but they have such grit and they're so motivated. I'd hire that person any day of the week over the person that looks perfect. A hundred percent. I could not agree more. And I think when you're looking at who to hire, and actually I put in specific interview questions that now I use because I want to write them down.

33:08I mean, now I'm - Tell us. Yes, because, well, I mean, listen, It's like, what is one thing that I would learn about you three months from now that I don't know, that I wouldn't learn just in the interview? Or what would your previous boss say is one thing they want to change about you? Because that will give you insight into like things that they may or may not be good at. Or who's someone that you admire because likely that's the person that they aspire to be like. So I give a list of questions that I, you know, that are not so surface level, like actually trying to understand. If you had a team, what would that team say that they would want to change about you?

33:44And it really makes you think because they have to tell you something that is not favorable for them. Right. And also, like when, like, I think that the idea that, I think it was in the book or something I was watching or reading about you, you were mentioning how you're not going to find your perfect job by just throwing in a resume, right? Like it's personal relationships. Like you're not hiring someone based on, you know, because it was like resume number 27. Right? Like you're going to be like, usually it comes from a referral. I think 85 % of jobs are coming from referrals. Someone in their network, someone that knows someone.

34:22And honestly, if someone comes to me and they recommend someone, I'm more likely to take that meeting. Absolutely. Actually, even on investment, I'm like, I maxed out on current investments. But if you are someone I know and you come - say that because everyone's going to hit you up. I'm currently on a pause, but, but it's not, to be honest, it's not true because if you came to me and you said, Hey, I'm investing in this company and we're friends, I'd be like, okay, I'll look at the deal. A hundred percent. Cause it's like your network is your net worth kind of in a way, like I hate that sentence, but it's the truth.

34:53Like you trust the people that are within your group. Right. And then what about, which is interesting because what do you think of mentors? I love, I love, I talk a lot about mentorship. First of all, I think 93 % of self-made millionaires have a mentor, first of all, which is amazing. So if you want to make millions, if you don't have a mentor, it's time to get one. Think of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett or Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs or Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi, right? Think of people that every single person I know that is successful has a mentor. And say you're not an entrepreneur.

35:29Say you're just in a corporate job. People in corporate jobs are five times more likely to be promoted if they have a mentor than those that don't. So simple. You know what I think the problem is? People get caught up in having this fancy mentor, right? Like this rock star mentor. Like, oh, unless I get, you know, Mark Cuban from the Shark Tank, I don't want a mentor. You know what people like he was saying? Like how many people hit him up like a day, an hour to be his mentor. But you can find a mentor that is down the street or within your network who's just doing just a little bit better than you or done better than you that can help guide you and actually care about you.

36:09Yeah. Right? I totally agree. I think we look, to your point, to someone that's so far. And actually, they may not be the best mentor because they did it 20 years ago. You want someone that did it two years ago. I agree. And that they can help you. And honestly, I have so many incredible mentors in my beverage company because I don't know what I'm doing. Right. And you're learning as you go. I'm learning as I go. But the faster I can learn. And so people that, you know, yes, I've got one that's 20 years in beverage. I also have one that's two, two years ahead of me that's crushing it. And so I call them all the time and I'm like, hey, what do you think about this?

36:41What do you think about this? Always getting great advice. So it doesn't have to be someone so far ahead of you. It could be someone down the street that's opening up a new, that has a store. I also think you're, and I was going to say something, as you were saying that about the two years, I was going to say something that I think that I've recognized and I've noticed. I think the older you get, unfortunately, the more stuck in your ways you get and more regimented you are, right? I'm speaking for a friend and I'm joking. But like, but what I was going to say is the people that I've learned the most from in the last few years are these like new, hot, young entrepreneurs who know, who are doing it differently because what, what worked 10 years ago doesn't work anymore.

37:24Even what worked five years ago doesn't work anymore. Right. So like what I think is a really good thing to tell people or what I tell people when they ask me is like, don't look at your peer to peer, like someone who's like done it 10 years ago, look who's doing it like right now or who's on the up and coming. Get good with, get in with those people because they know what's hot, what's working. They know social media, they know digital, they know technical, like they know AI better. So like if you're somebody who is like in middle age, and I'm being totally honest, like I think the best piece of advice is get a mentor who's younger than you.

38:00Yes. I love that. You know? But the reality is you both bring a strength to the table because those individuals also need someone that knows how to actually scale a business with the operational infrastructure that it takes in order to truly be successful. So how do you complement each other? Right. I think that's a really important thing. 100%. Like, I don't think I think that you're very, it's very myopic to think, okay, well, I have to, I have to pick the word mentor usually assumes that the person has to be like 20 years older than you. But I'm, I'm just going to like change that whole thing and say that I think the word mentor has to have nothing to do with age and whatever.

38:39It could be younger. It could be somebody who's innovative and knows, like, there's like one of these guys that I work with. He's like 29 years old. And I kind of like poo-pooed his whole thing. Like, oh, this is how I learned all this like a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, he's like going to hit a hundred million in his product now, two years later. He is so, I mean, way smarter than I actually thought and gave him credit for because I thought to myself, oh, no, no, no. I was very rigid and myopic in what I was thinking. So just be open minded. You'd be shocked. Yes, I agree. And there's so many biases that we carry with us that are limiting our potential because to your point, we see, oh, how could they know?

39:22But they do know. They do know. And I think I'm smart enough to know that I don't know anything. So I think if you can, and this is where I talk about a lot, asking for help and being okay that you don't know everything. I'm not the smartest person in the room. I know what I know, and I'm very good at that, but I also know what I don't know, and I know I don't know everything. So now I'm going to try to reach out and find the people that are better than me. To your point, in social media, in whatever it is that their skill is focused on, let's find them and build a great team.

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41:25Let's talk about money, because I think it's important to mention this, right? Right. It's easier to build a brand or build a business or start when you have like that safety net, when you have money to play with. What do you suggest? And not like, and I'm not telling, like I'm saying, you know, you go to the farmer's market, all those things, which by the way, that also costs money. It costs money for space. What do you tell people about money? Like if you don't have money to start, how do you get money? How do you start when you don't have like that type of safety net of money? Well, I didn't start with much.

41:59I did have a loan from my grandmother. Your granny. Granny nanny. Yes, granny nanny. Start where you are with what you have. And so look around. I mean, it's never been easier to start a company because of the internet, artificial intelligence. You can actually create entire pitch deck in 90 seconds. I mean, this is insane, right? You can do financial models. When I started, I was on a dial-up internet connection, like where it beeped and stuff. I mean, it was, you know, very, very hard. And so I think you can create a lot and get to market with very minimal investment and costs. And obviously I understand from a CPG perspective, trying to get that minimum viable product.

42:39But I also think now with such a global world, we're able to do that much quicker and much more efficiently with less capital. Yeah. So you're saying, I also think that people don't have to, like we're saying reinventing the wheel. We don't have to like start big. We can do little things like that we can afford and then iterate as we go. Right. Yes. And I always say, don't quit your day job. If you got a day job that pays a lot of money, you got eight hours, you know, every day is 24 hours. You got eight hours to work your current job, eight hours work on your side hustle or whatever it is, eight hours sleep.

43:13I don't know what you're using your eight hours for, but to be honest, if you're just working 40 hours, you're not going to be a millionaire. Like that is not enough time in order to actually create the dream and the life that you want. You actually have to put in more time. I think that's also the fallacy, right? People think they can have work-life balance. If I hear that word again, I'm going to puke because there's no such thing as work-life balance. I need to grind to make it. I mean, be like, oh, that's so like passe to say the word hustle and grind. It's what it is. Hard work and time is what gets you from A to B to Z.

43:47I mean, like people think, oh, I can just like, you know, I can just wake up and have my matcha and do my five-hour morning routine and then work for 36 hours. and then they're wondering why they're not crushing life and why their career is stagnant or their business is not taking off. You have to put in a lot of hours. Yes, if you're going to work an average job, you're going to have an average life. And if you even work below those average hours, you're going to have a below average life. You know what, I think... And that's fine, but be honest with yourself. Be honest with yourself. This is what I think the problem is.

44:19I think there's such mixed messages. And because of social media, people are manifesting your life. Well, listen, you can manifest all you want, but if you're not like laser focused and like working your ass off, good luck to you. Yes, I agree. I tell my team, it's like ask, believe, work hard, send the 99 % and then receive. It's like, I love the manifestation. I'm 100%, but the 99 % and the work hard part is like where the magic happens. 100%. And it drives me crazy when, and like the, and the best thing is every, don't believe everything you see because a couple of my friends who are on social media who like are the ones like preaching manifestation they work like dogs okay they're working from like they don't they don't have a life they're not working out they barely have they don't have kids they're working 24 hours on their manifestation because they want to be successful so I think you have to know like you got to be realistic with what actually moves the needle and not just listen to some random influencer who tells you that you can just believe and vision, and it's going to work for you.

45:22Not happening. I completely agree. And that's honestly why I wanted to write the book, because everything looks perfect. Everyone's a success on the internet. And the reality is the messy middle, and I talk about it, is where everything else is happening. Totally. It's like no one's talking about it. So let's talk about how hard it is. Let's talk about the grind. Let's talk about the late nights, the early mornings, the times when I want to quit, the times when I don't even think I'm going to make it out of bed. Why don't we talk about that? Because it's not pretty and it's not, it doesn't look nice on social media.

45:53Listen, social media is like a highlight reel, right? You're seeing them like, you know, doing their little saunas and cold plunges and then like, you know, having their six pack. Meanwhile, most of those people are on a Zempic. They're starving themselves. And they've also gotten a tummy tuck because like, this is what it is though. But people are not honest or they, even though they may know that psychologically, they are unable to believe it and they are believing these people and then they're killing themselves in other ways. So I, that's why I like things like, I like when, I like the name of the book.

46:27I think it's great. And I like when people talk about the messy middle because that's exactly what life really is. It really is. And I, I, you know, it's fun because I'm in so many companies right now and I share a lot about them in the book. As I'm not, I sold for 235 million, like at the end of the journey, but I'm in it right now going through the ups and downs and the rollercoaster of entrepreneurship with so many companies. And I felt that now's a good time to share it while I'm going through it. I know, you know, I guess for me, knowing I've already, I've gone through it. Yeah, 100%. I have confidence.

47:02I came out the other side. It's okay to now share. Let's just talk about all the chaos. I mean, some of the stories in the book, you can't even believe actually happened. I think, and I love that. And I, like, you know what, but someone like you, again, like, is that, this is where I get, you know, I always think to myself, is it like innate or can you learn it? Like you made your money, right? You've done so much great things since you've been so successful professionally, but yet you're still hungry, right? Can you teach hunger? I think that the other thing is not everybody's built and made to be a hungry entrepreneur, and that's okay.

47:39That is okay. But don't kid yourself. Don't kid yourself. And I think it is okay. But I wrote this book for the high-achieving individuals that want to reach their greatest potential. Right. So I didn't even tell you, Michael. My thing is, do you believe that we are either people who are just genetically more ambitious? Can you teach drive? Can you teach ambition? Can you teach hunger? Because you already did it and you still seem to have it. Yeah, I think it's a balance. Both, I'm very blessed. Obviously, growing up, I was hoping I'd never become an entrepreneur because I have two entrepreneurial parents.

48:16And it was always like, we can't pay a bill or something. Both of them? I thought your dad was. Both of them. My mom too. Oh my gosh. What did your mom do? She did corporate consulting on going into corporations and doing consulting. Like for a big firm? No, she's herself, herself. Oh, really? Yes, yes, yes. And so - That's hard on your own. She was a corporate consultant. Oh my gosh, yes. And so it was always just a constant fight. I mean, and they ended up getting divorced. So obviously it's not good to have two entrepreneurs in one house because you never know what's going to happen. So I said, I'm going to get a real job.

48:53I do not want anything to do with entrepreneurial rollercoaster ride. I want stability. What I learned is there is no corporate stability. Yeah. Well, not anymore. No. And I think the best bet you can make is a bet on yourself. But to your question, are you born with it? Can you learn it? I think it's probably a little of both. You know, I mean, only because I saw early on how hard it was and how much work it took. And so it ingrained in me a sense of normalized work ethic and failure. And I think that gave me an appetite for more risk, but anyone can hustle. Like that is something that you have to think in your mind.

49:32Do you want to do that? Do you want to wake up? Is what you're doing, like, you're so passionate about, you cannot wait to get up and do it because that is, I mean, that's what I do every day. It's so fun. Yeah. And you like it because I want to circle back to something that we kind of, I went on a tangent probably, but something about doing it alone versus with a partner? Because you talk about that a lot. How do you find someone who would be a perfect partner besides not looking at the resume, besides asking those questions? Do you give people like, do people, should people have like also like a probation period to know?

50:09Like, because you don't, it's a lot of its personality types together too, isn't it? Yeah. I think number one, when I look at it and partner could be, let's just say in a business or in a relationship, I think it's really anchored in your values. And so what do I value versus what do you value? If we value health and wellness, we likely will be on the same page in terms of what is most important to us. So if we value hard work, I mean, listen, I don't want to partner with someone where I'm working. You know, when you're in school and you're working and you're doing a school project and you're doing all the work, well, that's not a fun partnership.

50:41So it's trying to understand the values of someone before going into a partnership. What happens if the people, like, and this happens, I see this a lot of times, you get along with someone really well, right? Like we click, we connect, we think we both love health and fitness. We love the same thing. And so we want to start a business. And then you realize pretty quickly that your strengths and my strengths are exactly the same. So we're missing the other part, right? Like we're both great with like sales and marketing and the front facing. Well, then who's going to be stuck doing the actual nitty gritty, the operations, the spreadsheets.

51:16I see that happening a lot. But that's an important part to hire the right team. So if I hire the team to complement your strengths and compensate for your weaknesses, and I think that's really important. And recognizing what are you truly good at? Because sometimes we then would say, okay, well, I'm going to try to be good at the back end. And you're just, you hate it. And so you won't be good. Everyone's disappointed and the partnership doesn't work. So really understanding what are my strengths, how much time am I going to be able to give to this? How much money can I contribute to this? Like all these things, just like probably marriage, like before you get into a partnership, we should really have a conversation.

51:55Right. So, cause I think that's what I see a lot happening. Like people have the same strengths versus the - Yeah, cause you like people like you, right? Exactly. Yeah, makes sense. Happens. Do you see that all the time? Yes, I see it all the time. And then it fails. Or does it not fail? I think it fails if you have different, if your expectation is you're going to be the other side of my coin and you're actually, we're all the same side. So I think that's where it fails is saying, no, no, I'm going to be me. And you're like, well, no, we have the same strengths, which is actually fine. But where's the third?

52:26Think of a stool, right? Three legs of a stool. Great. Me and you could be great, but we need the third leg, which is going to balance us to make sure that the backend is getting done. Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything specific that I didn't ask you? Because I'm thinking like I'm forgetting something. Am I? Or I have a question for you. While you're thinking about that, I want to know what is the most popular question that entrepreneurs ask you that they want to know about entrepreneurship? Right now, it's about probably raising money. Right, for sure. Raising money. Okay, so what do you say to them?

53:02Well, I want to know what's your market traction. Oh, just those three things. Yeah. That's what you hear all the time. Yeah, all the time. And it's great. You should be looking to raise money. But do you have to? I mean, I started at my kitchen table with 10 grand. Like, listen, I think, again, people usually say, I'm looking for money, when the reality is they're looking for mentorship. That is what they need, not my money. They actually, my mentorship is 10 times better than my money, for sure. That's a very true point. I think people assume that they need money or they feel like that's the way to kind of, like, I think also they just need help.

53:40Guidance. That's the mentorship. They just need to know when I get here, what do I do? If you've been here, how do you negotiate that? Who do you, you know, who can I connect me to? So it's not other people's money. It's other people's mentorship that you really need. Are you mentoring anybody right now? Oh my gosh, yes. So many actually. So many. How can you mentor so many? You know what? Because I'm passionate about what they're doing. I'm passionate of them as people, and I like to see them succeed. How many people are you mentoring? Probably five. So how do you have time to mentor five people?

54:10How much time are you spending? What kind of structure is it? I'm really good on the start, or if somebody's wrong. Oh, okay. So you call me in a crisis. I'm a great crisis person. I'm like, money. I have a product problem. I have a team problem, like the operational problem. So I'm really good at that. And I'm able to give very clear instruction. I love my mentees. When I mentor them, they actually come back and say, I just did what you did. Now what do I do next? I'm like, oh, you're the best person for me. Yes, please don't ask me for advice if you're not going to take it. That's in life, by the way.

54:45How annoying is it when someone takes and drains all your energy and time and then they don't listen to you? Right. But then you know how much fun it is when they do listen. And then they come back and you're like, oh, we see progress. Then I'm emotionally involved in your success. Exactly. Which is so fun. That's 100 % true. So then you see five people? Yeah. But mentorship, I think like, how do you view mentorship? For me, it's, are we setting you up for success? Have I given you whatever you need to be successful? So it's not a, we're not talking every day. No, no, no. I mean, we're talking if you're in a period that you need help.

55:20Right, right, right, right. Okay. So you're, and also you're not necessarily an investor in all the people that you're mentoring. No, not that way. No, no. I don't think, honestly, I could be an investor, but no, I'm not. I'm just invested in you being successful. That's amazing. Yeah. So then other, so because you say that you do mostly tech or you like to do tech besides this product, what do you think about the tech? Do you see besides AI, any area that there is such extreme growth that people should be looking to get into in general? I love health and longevity. Yeah. Like that's a great...

55:52Preaching to the convertitor. I know, right? That's such a great place to be. But it's again, super noisy. Again, like we talked about. But if you're super passionate, then it makes a difference, right? I wouldn't know how to do anything besides that. Like even though to your point, like the tech stuff is clearly obvious that that's where a lot of where the world is going and money, but I'm not interested in that. I love the health and fitness. Exactly. So I don't even bother. Yes. Right. But if you tell me about another supplement that I need, which I don't, I mean, a bazillion or another drink or another this, like I just love that stuff.

56:28Me too. I mean, I just love it. What other companies are you involved with besides Juni in this space of health and wellness? Oh my gosh. Well, I usually just use a lot of things as close and invest in them, right? I'm like, ah. But I would, I think like I'd look at them and I'm looking at new opportunities. I'm in a femtech company called Prove with this female wellness. I love, obviously, there's great opportunities in the menopause space right now. People love that. But I feel like it's kind of - Hormonal space. Isn't that overdone though? That's what I was going to say. No, it's never overdone.

56:57Listen. I know. I know. We just finished saying what's up. You got 10 people that pitched me the same idea. It's always about execution. Oh my gosh. I know. I just, I like fall into the same trap that I talk about, right? Like I'm always like, And by the way, like fitness apps, right? Like I had an app, I sold it years and years ago. And then people would come to me all the time like with the same type of app. And I'd be like, it's kind of like, aren't apps done? Meanwhile, then that company sold for like a half a billion dollars. I'm like, I guess I was wrong. You know what I mean? And that's happened like 50 times.

57:27Yeah, it's never too late. It's never too late. And like, again, I have to take my own advice, your advice, iteration, not innovation, execution. Everything is like everyone in their dog has a good idea. but then how do you execute is like where the money is. Oh my God. And it's hard. So hard, right? But you know, listen, it's hard in beverages, hard in beauty, it's hard in tech. Everything's like, choose your hard. Exactly. Okay, we're going to leave with me asking you, what is your daily routine? What are your habits every day? We know your hustle. Yeah, my hustle. Definitely hustle. So I get up, I love, let's see, I meditate.

58:02I've got a red light. I do the sauna. I work out. All in the morning? Love a green juice. have a protein shake. Yeah. Okay. This is again, how long is that morning routine? Oh my gosh. Well - Four hours? No. I mean, because I'm like in a 10 minute, you know, red light while meditating, while on a Beamer mat. I'm doing like three things at the same time. So you're multitasking. I'm multitasking my health and fitness. Then I work out and then the sauna's right there. So I go in the sauna 20 minutes while I'm taking a phone call. Like I'd say like I'm quite the - I love it. I'll be on the Peloton taking a phone call.

58:34I mean, I'll take a phone call from anywhere. You will. Okay. So what time do you wake up in the morning I wake up at six. At six. Okay. And then like, give me like play by play between six and nine. Go. Oh my gosh. Okay. So wake up. My kids aren't up yet. So then I go in, I do the red light. I do the meditation. What kind of red light? Are you doing the one that's - I get the whole panel on a bed. Oh, you have a bad panel. Okay. That's a good one. Yeah. It's amazing. I love it. I love it. And you do it for how long? I do it for anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes, depending on what meditation I'm doing.

58:59Do you have the one that's like also on your face and you're lying on the bed? Yeah. The whole, yeah. My face all the way. No, no, no. But like, there's like another one. I went to Gabby Reese, shout out to her. She has this amazing red light at her house where it's like you put this thing on your face. I don't know what it's called. Remind me to call her after. You put it on your face and you're lying on it. It's amazing. You don't have that one? No, I just have it. It's fully on. But I have a Beamer mat, which is something from Europe, which is amazing. It's increasing your energy, which is amazing.

59:28So like start there. Then I get my kids up to go to school. Yeah. So that's how they wake up. They wake up about 6.45. And so at that point - How old are your kids? They are four. So two six-year-old boys, identical, and two 11-year-old, a boy and a girl. Oh my gosh. I have a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old, but you have two six-year-olds? Yes. They're so cute. Oh my God. And two 11-year-olds. Yes. You're like in the weeds, weeds. Oh yeah. You're like, that's busy. Yes. Yes. But we're running this like a - We run it like a company, right? How do you do it? It's very efficient. Okay. Yeah. So we get up.

1:00:03Yeah. No, but the kids are smart. Six-year-olds, they can make their own lunches. They can put them in bags. They know what they're doing. You're preaching again to the converted. Okay, so tell me. Yes, oh my gosh. So then they'll go to school, and then I'll go to the gym, and then I'll do at least a 45, like a HIIT or a Peloton or whatever I'm doing. You're doing a class? No, I have a personal trainer. Okay, at the gym? Nope, I'll do it right in my, I have my own home. Oh, so we say you go to the gym. Oh, my gym is like 10 steps from my house. Oh, okay, I thought you meant you'd go to like Equinox or something.

1:00:29Nope, not leaving the house. Everything's in your house. For efficiency. I love it. Okay, so let me just get this straight. This is if I love. Okay, so you wake up around six, you go into your red light, then you go and do your meditation in the red light. Okay. Then you get the kids and you give them breakfast or whatever. And then you work out. Yeah, then I work out. Okay. And how long you say 45 minute work? Yeah, it depends. I've been trying this EMS, which is like 20 minutes. And they're like - Oh, you like that thing? Well, you're working out at the same time that they're shocking you. So I don't know.

1:00:59They say it's supposed to be really good for you. They say it. I know I've tried it many times. I don't, it's not enjoyable though. No, it's not enjoyable. Yeah, it's not enjoyable. It's not like I'm lying there doing nothing either. I'm doing squats and it's - Oh, it's hard. Oh, it's hard. Oh, I know. You know, very hard. Yeah. But I thought if it's only 20 minutes, I could shave off some time. That's true. So I'm really looking at how to get more efficient. Right, you're being very efficient. And then I'll go in the sauna 20 minutes. Okay. Which is right next to the gym. To the gym, got it. Yeah.

1:01:26And then I have a green juice, I have a protein shake and - What's in your protein shake? No, I just, I use, oh my God, which one am I using now? We know you use Momentus creatine. I do Momentus. I put the creatine in. Best creatine on the market. Yeah, I love that creatine, right? Yep. It's so good. I think it's great. I just got a hyperbaric chamber. You did? Yes. Do you like it? Oh my gosh, yes, but that takes more time. I hate those. So I'm really trying to figure out how to integrate that into my life style. You can work in there if you want. You can, but. Unless, what kind is it? Is it the smaller one or the bigger one?

1:02:00No, it's a big one. Two seats. Oh, it's a big one. I find them. I don't like them. Like, I don't like the way I feel in it. I get nauseous. Yeah, me too. So I can't actually work in it. Some people are like, oh, you can work. I'm like, I can't work because it doesn't, I don't feel. You cannot. Right. I can't work. So that's a problem because I was saying I just work for a couple hours and that doesn't work. So, no. Listen, some people, I don't have a problem with it. I'm like nauseous in there. Me too. My ears are bothering me. Yeah, me too. Well, because you're going down. I mean, down. Yeah, you're going down.

1:02:27It's like a lot of pressure, right? It's a lot of pressure. But it's supposed to be so good for you. It's supposed to be really good. So I'm really into preventative health. So if you've got, I mean, listen, I'll take every suggestion you have. I have a million. I mean, a million. So then you do that or not always. Right. Not always. Yeah. No, no. I usually do that later in the day. But you're having a smoothie. You're not having like - Literally a protein shake that I drink faster than like 60 seconds and like, then I'm ready to roll. Yeah. See, that doesn't fill me up. You don't mind? Like you don't think - Oh, I feel, no, I feel pretty good.

1:02:55You do? Do you work out every day? Do you do weights every day, like every second day? I probably do weights two to three times a week. Okay. But I work out every day. It's so good for my mind. Like I'm not, listen, I'm not like winning on the Peloton. I'm just there just to get some. Who cares? Yeah. We're not in a competition. So I'm like, I'm just trying to actually, it's so good for my brain to just get focused and feel good. And I know just that helps me just like get in the zone. I think honestly, like to me, exercise at this point is not necessarily, I'm not trying to be like, you know, in a bikini competition.

1:03:32It's completely, it's foundational for my wellbeing, my focus. I'm way more productive. I'm way more alert. I'm way more on point just in everything when I work out. And I'm not like, I'm not like, I don't need to like, I'm not going to be in the Olympics next week, but I think it's very - But it's great for my mental health. I think it's the number one longevity hack in the world. You could be doing every supplement, do the hyperbaric. You could do the sauna. But if you're not exercising daily, forget about it. Well, and if you don't have your health, you have nothing. What's the point of making millions if you can't enjoy it?

1:04:08Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. Okay, guys, the book is called Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire by Kim Perel. This was so enjoyable. Oh, I loved it. This book is really good. And like I said, I have to say this because I'm not just saying this because she's sitting across from me, but it really is. It's a really great read, great information, great nuggets. So anyway, good luck with this book. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to see you. And we'll see each other in a couple of days. I know. I can't wait. I know, right? All right, guys. Oh, and you also go to Kim Perel on Instagram.

1:04:41Yeah, at Kim Perel. Yeah, pretty easy. You can find her. All right. Bye. Thank you.