Episode 512: The Best of Habits&Hustle: Jordan Belfort (Wolf Of Wall Street)

21:09When they start going to complex annuities and all this shit, you don't need it historically. And this is not my information. All I did was I gathered all the information. what everyone knows to be true on Wall Street. And no one will argue that I'm right in this book. I'm right. It's the truth. So I didn't invent these strategies. Jack Bogle is really responsible for creating the index fund. But in terms of like, how do you really build a portfolio? It's known. Everyone knows how to do it. But Wall Street advertises it their way into the hearts and minds of people and gets people convinced that they should be engaged in short-term trading, trying to time the market, that you could actually have a stockbroker who's going to beat the S.

21:50It's ludicrous. It doesn't work. And every academic study going back since the 1920s has proved it. So all I did was wrote it in a very funny, so the book is funny. Because I said, if I don't make the book funny, no one's going to read it. So the idea was to make it really funny and accessible, but teach you a step-by-step strategy of how you do that and secure your retirement. And trust me, if you read the book, you'll be happy. You'll be thanking me 30 years later. I'll still be alive probably because I'm aging very slowly. Yeah, exactly. You really are. You're going to be alive to your 270.

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24:13We'll get to the sales, actually. Well, let me just, I wanted to go back because you were talking about the movie. And of course, I'm like obsessed with that movie. Was it, how accurate was it of your real life? Very accurate. It was? Very accurate. How much? 90%, 80 %? Well, so I was much worse than that. You were? Oh, yeah. Yeah, like with the drugs and then the hookers. I'll admit it, you know. No, I love this. It's not my life today, right? But we were, I was insane and we were, and then the thing was, the best part was the Jonah Hill character, right? Oh my God, the best. His real name is Danny.

24:43And the best thing about, I love Danny, right? And the best thing, everyone needs a Danny in their life. Oh my gosh. You know why you need a Danny? Because as bad as I was, I'd look at Danny and say, when I'm as bad as this fucking guy, then I know I got a problem. Exactly. He was that guy, he was doing more drugs. Like, I don't got, he's got a problem, right? Exactly. He's a great guy. Are you friends still? Yeah, we still, I don't see him that much because we don't live in the same area, but nothing but praises for him. What is he doing now? He's wealthy, I'm sure. He's very, he's a great salesman, smart guy, came from a very successful family.

25:15The father was a famous doctor. His mother was an educator, very well-respected educator. But they were like upper class. They were upper class. They weren't like rich, rich. Upper, exactly. Yeah, they're upper class. Correct, yeah. And so he was able, like, does he have money, money, or just like? Yeah, he's got money, money. He does. He does have money. Like, what did he do after? What did he, like, I don't know much about him. I think he was in medical supply business or something. I don't know exactly what he did, but he was in medical supplies, maybe some pharmacies. I don't know exactly what he did, but he made some good money.

25:44He's not poor, but he's not, he's not, he's very wealthy. He's not just trucking along. No, he's doing well. So you'd say the movie was actually underplayed your life? It underplayed the insanity. Like, you know, there were some scenes that had to be cut out because the movie would have been X-rated. Really? Right. Oh, my God. Like, what? Tell me. The bachelor party scene. Okay, tell me. Don't feel like you can't say it because I'm a girl. I want to know. No, no, no. There's some things I can't say because they're just too depraved. I'll tell you a funny story. So when I was writing the book. Okay.

26:13Right? And my editor from Random House was a female. Okay. Daniel Perez. Great, very smart lady, right? And I sent her the first chapter, and it was, like, really, you know, raunchy, right? And I'm like, I wonder what she's going to think. And she sends me back a note. Back then it was before everything was digital. I sent her a chat that she FedExed it back. She'd be like, no, it's check. Oh my God, it's so great. You're such a bad boy. Keep going. I'm like, wow, okay. I'm like, I'm emboldened by that. So next chapter I send her is like something else crazy happened. Like four hookers and this.

26:45And I'm like, I wonder what she's going to think of that one. So I send it out. She's like, oh my God, this is amazing. I showed it to Erwin Atman, and he was rolling on the floor. I'm like, fuck. I'm like, all right, here we go, right? Next chapter was even worse in Switzerland. Just pure in say, right? So I'm like, I just keep getting worse and on and on. Finally, I get to the chapter where I have my bachelor party, right? And we flew 100 stratonites, they were called them, right, out there. What do you call them? Stratonites. They were called stratonites. Oh, stratonites, okay. And, you know, equal number of hookers of all shapes and sizes.

27:17and we, like the movie, it's true, we rated them like stocks. We had blue chip hookers, the best. We had, you know, mass stack hookers and then we had the pink sheets with the bottom of the barrel. We took those too because we wanted to punish ourselves, right? But we did and we flew back. Then we hooked up with counterparts in Vegas. We know the 50 to 100 hookers from Vegas, right? Anyway, the bachelor party is just spiraling out of control upstairs on the, there's like the 22nd floor of the Mirage and it's like Sodom and Gomorrah on the 22nd floor of Mirage. And that was the hotel back then, right?

27:49Back then, yeah. And it's just absolutely raging away. There's animals. There's cocaine out on bowls, quaaludes everywhere. Everyone's high. And there's hookers. Sex going on out in the open, the whole nine yards, right? You know, just complete insanity. Anyway, I was downstairs with this guy named Elliot Levine, who was the CEO of Perry Ellis. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. And this guy was the biggest degenerate of us. He was the guy that was the king of, and he was brilliant. This guy was a brilliant businessman, as smart as they got during the day, and wild gambler, drugs, I mean, we were all crazy.

28:23He was like, literally, I was like, he was like, wow, he's amazing. He's like the best of the bad. He was just unbelievable, right? Wow. So I'm with him with gambling, and we're all coked out of our minds and quail out of our minds, just on massive quantities, right? And he's up like 2.5 million. I'm up like a million dollars for$700 ,000 playing blackjack, right? So we decide, let's go upstairs to the bachelor party, right? So I cash out, get my chips. He leaves his there, right? Because he wants to keep gambling. We go upstairs, right? We walk in the door. And as we got there, down, turn the corner to the hallway.

28:55There's like two police dawning the bachelor party, right? And as we walk down, they're like, Mr. Belfort, you don't want to go in there. It's like, you really, I'm like, I have to. I have no choice. I must. It's behind my control. And we go in there, and it hits you. like the whole thing is just complete insanity, music blasting, you know, hookers dancing this way and that way, people just engaged in sex. And, and we get to the back of the room and there's this, you see the scene in the movie, by the way, where he is a snapshot of one team with this pink sheet hooker. And there's like a line of guys and one guy is having sex with her.

29:27Right. And, and we're watching this like disgustingly vile act. Anyway, long story short is something happens. I can't say it's just too, too disgusting, but something happens. Like after the guy pulls out and you can't imagine what the woman looks like after that. It's really the most disgusting vagina. It's like the world's most polluted vagina, basically, ever to exist on planet Earth. It's that thing. We're all looking at and you have to look. Morbid curiosity takes over. You just want to take a look. You're like, oh my fucking God. This guy was number eight on the line of 20. Can you imagine this?

30:04I'm not this guy anymore. I'm married. I'm happy. I wouldn't have to clip that because people are good. This is what people like to hear though. They like the morbidity. They like this stuff. You know, what can I say? It's so interesting and fascinating. And it's like people, that's why people like to look at like a bad accident or like, or they don't have a life like that. Well, this was a fucking 10 year train wreck. But by the way, The fact that you're not dead is unbelievable. I know. And I look pretty good considering that. That's what I'm saying. The drugs, nothing even like aged you. It's a testament to the human liver, right?

30:36So if the liver stays intact, I didn't drink a lot. I think that was the big thing. I didn't drink much. I had a little bit, not much. That wasn't the big thing. It was mostly just drugs. Drugs, yeah. You loved the Kuala Luz. Kuala Luz and cocaine, yeah, were the big ones, right? And a lot of Xanax and Klonopin and morphine because it was cool and awesome. And I just did massive kinds of drugs, right? I never met a drug I didn't like, right? And the LSD, not much, right? But anyway - The story, the bachelor party, yeah. Anyway, so we were all looking and Elliot is next to me, the most, the brand of us all.

31:04And he goes and grabs a bottle of champagne, and shakes it up. And then something happens, right? Something so disgustingly vile that it tore through the fabric of space time. Like all of a sudden, everyone just stopped, like in hot, like everyone just froze. And you're looking at this thing, you're like, I can't believe it. Right. And then he's like, he's, it's like, he's gargling anyway. But then like, I'm like, I have to go. I can't watch this. It's just too disgusting. What was it? I can't say it, but it had to do with like a champagne bottle and drinking it, you know, and the whole thing, you know, vagina.

31:39Yes, I understand. I get it. I get it. I don't want to say it, okay? Because it's just too gross, right? And he drinks and goggles and everyone's like frozen in horror, like frozen in horror, right? And then I'm like, fuck, I got to go. And I walk out and I leave the party and I go downstairs, take like four or five Xanax and go to sleep because I'm just disgusted by the whole thing, right? Next morning, I wake up and I put my, I had like$2 million,$1.8 million and the money I brought down, like$1.7 million, plus I had$1.7 million to put it in the safe. right? I wake up next morning, Elliot's shaking me awake, right?

32:09And he's like, we got to get out of here. This place is too depraved. I'm like, you're telling me it's too good. He's like, let's go, let's go. He's like, all right, let's go. He's like, we got to go. The Jets wait. The Jets wait. We're going to go. We'll go. I go to the safe. My money's gone. He took my, not only did he lose his 2.5, he took my 1.7. He ended up losing like $40 million gambling, this guy. It was like unbelievable on Saturday. So anyway, I write this. Over the 40 million that trip. He lost a that night, like probably 4 million. But over the next six months, everything, he was like just, and then lost his job.

32:38And I, he came back to again and became rich again with Jordache jeans, brilliant Garmento, this guy, like no one, he was brilliant, but so self-destructive really, but unbelievably smart and talented, charismatic. Right. But anyway, so this scene that starts when we fly there with all the hookers, right. And someone gets shot in the knee along the way, no big deal. New York cops are with us, protecting us. The whole thing's just like, And I write the whole thing. It's like 22 pages in excruciating detail of everything that happened, all right? Down to Elliot taking my money and then imploding and then he drowns in my pool and I save him.

33:14It's a whole thing, right? And I send the pages to my publisher, to Diane Perez. And I'm waiting for one to see what she's going to say about that, you know, right? And then maybe like five days, four days later, I get back and I'm back with that answer. I open up and she's on the front page. I just don't think other human beings will understand. And then I go with the thing, I look and there's an X here, an X there, and the whole thing. So in my first book, The Wolf of Wall Street, right? Yeah. There's like this part where I describe the back. In detail, I describe this whole story. We'll up the money because it's a true story.

33:46Yeah. It's vetted, true. And nothing's fabricated. No, there's 300 witnesses. No, nothing is exaggerated. 300 witnesses, right? So the whole thing, we won all this money. He took everything. But in the middle, I say, we walk to the back of the room, okay? and it says, I opened the door and there's the bachelor party. And it was so depraved, I had to walk out. Like there's the whole thing cut out of the thing. You get it? I went downstairs to like, she's like, and if you read it fast, you're like, oh, it was depraved. But the whole thing was described, you know? Wow. And it wasn't in there. It wasn't in the book.

34:20So then when Marty, the movie, I'm like, Marty, you want me to, he goes, yeah, I want to see this pages. So he saw the pages. I think the first version of that was, they had to cut because it would have gotten in NC-17. Get out. So they said for that little still shot, you know, that kind of said something happened with a guy screwing a book. Right, right, right. Right, right. It was still pretty, like, raunchy for, like, a movie, but it was still, it could have been, that was like, it was like, watch, it's like the Smurfs compared to what really happened. And, you know, the problem with the whole why these things happen, you know, like these insane things, right, is that we were like action junkies, you know, like, you know, and it's like, almost like, what's next?

34:59It's like you keep looking for a higher and higher cliff to dive off of in a shallower and shallower pool to land in. Because the first thing we did that we thought was insane, we shaved someone's head to$10 ,000. And we're like, oh my God, it was great. But then, you know, three months later, head shaving is$50. It doesn't have the same impact. So let's shave a girl's head this time. Right, because you could always up the ante, right? And it never gets to that place. But then, okay, how did you even get Leonardo DiCaprio? Were you able to pick him? I picked him. Yeah, I picked him in Scorsese.

35:30How did you get that chance? Tell me how it worked. What was the process? And this is where I would say the hard work of writing. So I spent a year teaching myself to write. What really happened is I came up with a style of writing where I took what was nonfiction and wrote it like fiction. My book reads like a novel, but it's true. It's true, but it reads like a novel, which is different from almost every memoir that you would read because usually the person has a ghost writer. Yeah. Okay. Or if they write themselves, they didn't spend the amount of time. I taught myself to write as if I was a novelist, like Tom, because Tom was a novelist.

36:11He started off as nonfiction. And by the way, that's the beauty of Bonfire is he wrote, you know, nonfiction, but it was almost like it was, he wrote fiction. It was fiction Bonfire, but he wrote it like nonfiction. Like he did so much research into stuff, right? So it was so believable. I did the opposite using his style. I wrote what was nonfiction and it read like fiction. So, and I spent so much time and I think, and I, and I, I did do a very good job writing that book. Everyone loves that book. And when, so when Leo read the book, he was like, holy shit. Was it a massive seller before you got the movie deal?

36:46Before you even got the movie deal? Yeah. Well, no, it wasn't out before the movie. I thought you got the book after the, So Leo read the book before it was even a, it was a manuscript. It was just a manuscript. It was edited. So the editing was done. Okay. Right. It was the original version was 1500 pages and my editor and I whittled it down to like 538 or something like that. Right. So a lot of stuff got cut. Right. Wow. I overwrote the book. Right. So when that was a manuscript, my producer, a woman named Alexandra Milshon, one of the sharpest ladies I know, right. You know, brilliant producer in Hollywood.

37:21Right. She slipped that manuscript to Leo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, and Mark Wahlberg. Ultimately, and Wahlberg loved it too. He wasn't quite as big a star yet. Now he's massive, right? And he would have done great too. I love Mark Wahlberg. But at the time, it came down to, George Clooney was too old. He would have played the FBI agent, right? So it came down to Leo and Brad Pitt both wanted the book. There was a bidding war between the two of them. So over a weekend, the bidding went up and up and up. Each side said, whatever they pay you, we'll pay you 10 % more. So the book, the price of the sale kept going up and up.

37:56And finally, Leo calls and goes like, I have Martin Scorsese attached. He's going to direct. Marty read the book, loves it too. He'll direct. And I was like, and by the way, the truth is I always loved Leo. Like I thought Leo was the perfect person. You know, I love Brad Pitt too, but Leo was - No, you did perfect. And so I sold it to Warner Brothers with Leo on behalf of Leo and Marty, right? And then a man named Terrence Winter, a brilliant screenwriter, adapted the book. We spent a lot of time together. And he took my book and put it into a format that became the movie. There's many changes after, but it was the movie, that first script.

38:29And everyone loved this first script so much. It was in 2000, and the book hadn't even come out yet. The book was because it was slated to come out in September, and now we're in June. And everyone loves the script. I get a call from Leo's manager, Rick Yorn, saying, dude, we're greenlighting the movie. We're going to go. We're looking at the soundstage. I'm like, what? It never happened. Like when someone options a movie, it's a very slim chance it ever gets made. It like usually doesn't get made. Right? It goes on forever, right? But Leo loved the role and why he loved it. The whole thing worked out.

38:59And then the writer's strike hits, the 2007 writer's strike. And the script is not ready. It needs, all of them put their pen down. Leo and Marty go off and do Shutter Island because it was ready. Yeah. And the window closed. And one thing about Marty, who is one of the most talented directors in the world, amazing, but he moves slowly. When he's with a picture, She's with it for years. It's very slow. So now it became the brutal wait for Marty to be ready again. And like Leo's easy because he does a movie. He's next, next. And so we're trying to get it done. And the stars could not get aligned.

39:31And on and on it goes. And then 2008, the financial crisis hits, right? And I can't sell another book because no one's buying anything. I'm completely broke again. I'm freaking out. And with my then wife, I was with my partner, and she's like, my wife. And I'm like, I hate writing. And I hate writing so much. And I can't even sell anything right now. I was working on another book, but no one would buy it because no one had money, right? And I'm like, she's like, what do you want to do? I said, maybe I should go and try to be a speaker. And I'm like, let's do that. And I remember this moment, I called my book agent.

40:06His name was Joel. And I said, Joel, listen, I really want to go and try to do some speaking events. He's like, oh my God, you're a great speaker. It's great. Just, you got to wait till the movie gets made. Then they'll come for you. And I'm like, what did you say? He's like, wait for the movie. I'm like, are you, I'm not fucking wait. I got so, and I liked the guy, but I was like, I was like, that is how you go out and become successful. Wait for the movie. I could be waiting the rest of my fucking life for the movie to get made. And I slammed the phone down. I said, I don't give a fuck. I'm going to do this, right?

40:36And I went out and I started with giving free speeches at colleges. My first speech was free. Some girl, you know, a big fan. I want to bring you to my college. I went for free, did a few free speeches. And when I did the first free speech, the kids were wild. And I was like, holy Christ, it's like something that comes naturally to me, right? They went crazy, right? And then the first person that booked me was like a$5 ,000 event for some entrepreneurs thing. Never even fucking paid me. And I flew to New York. They put me in a tiny little room the size of a fucking railroad car, right? I mean, I went through shit.

41:06I was just getting started, right? And then I was just talking about the inner game of success. I wasn't even teaching sales yet because, you know, I had created so much mayhem with my last time I taught sales. I was like, I don't want to talk about sales anymore, right? Because I had my own negative ideas about it. But then something happened and I was at some event in Australia. So I already had a big following from the book around the world. So I did a tour in Australia and I met a guy that goes, I want to take you to England. It was only the inner game of success, no sales or business, right?

41:33Just, you know, mindset, right? But it was really compelling. And he goes, dude, I got to bring you people who are going to love this stuff in England, right? And I went to his company. It flew me to England. I went to his company, England. And he had a phone room, like 20 people on the phone because he was doing some stuff with trading, right? And he had, they were selling trading programs, right? And I listened to his salesman. I'm like, dude, your people suck. I'm like, he goes, I know they're the fucking worst, right? He goes, their closing rate is just like horrific. I said, if you want, I'm happy to train them for you.

42:00I'll teach them the straight line. He goes, what's that? I said, I'll show you the straight line. So he calls all his people into a room, all right? The name of the company was called Knowledge. The video is still around. knowledge to action, right? Now, at the time, I had my first shoulder surgery already. Oh, wow. So I was actually, I think for the second one, I was actually in a sling for me having a rotator cuff repair, right? But anyway, so I calls people, he calls people in, all right? And they had this big, they had this script that sales manager wrote this fucking script that was like a big piece of oak tag in a circle.

42:29It was the most toxic piece of shit, right? It was like the opposite of the straight line. It was the circular bullshit, right? And I took a blowtorch and lit it on fire in front of like 20 people, all right? I said, guys, this is the biggest salesman I just like thinking to see, right? And I start teaching the straight line system, which is what I invented to teach all these. And the guy who was a seminar promoter is like, holy, when I was done, he's like, why the fuck are you talking about the inner game of success? He goes, this is the most, I never heard, this is, there's nothing fresh in the world of, everyone's saying the same shit again.

43:03No one's ever said this before. This is like, where is this? I said, well, this is what I taught. goes dude you're gonna make billion dollars on this thing yeah this is you're like don't stop fuck that right so i was like really and still i was like i don't know if you want to teach sales he's like buddy and i and we i went back three days and what happened is he was closing about 20 sales a month with his from his room the next month they closed like 328 sales really oh yeah yeah thank you and massive fucking success blew up his biz right and and what happened was i still didn't want to teach it because i was like oh last time i taught it you know people lost money it was terrible i just i i was i really wanted to just give value and i didn't want to teach something i thought would hurt people because i made some huge mistakes there's no doubt like now in hindsight i can feel great i've redeemed my life and you know and the whole thing i've been i've had this but i still at the time was very new and i i felt terrible people lost money i wasn't happy about that and i was i wanted to come back and rebuild my reputation i said i'm never going to do anything again if people don't get a if i charge a thousand dollars i want them to think they got ten thousand in value that was on my mind and i didn't want to teach things that might hurt people, right?

44:05So I wasn't in the straight line is really freaking powerful. What is it? What is the straight line system? It's an incredibly powerful system of sales and persuasion. And you can, I sell courses now, but like you can get enough, I give enough stuff away for free. You don't need to buy my courses. If you want to buy my courses, you can buy them and it's very organized, but you don't have to. Like I don't, it's not how I make my money. And I love teaching it and there's so many videos on you can't suppress stuff that you, it's always on YouTube if you want. Yeah, I wanted to watch it. People that want to pay, will pay and they can go buy it.

44:33It's amazing. Give me the basics of it, of how it would work. What it is really is that if you ask the average person, a salesman that's not trained, but they might be a decent salesperson, right? What do you do when you sell? What's actually happening? If I ask you, you're probably a very good salesperson. You're a good communicator. If I ask you, what do you do when you sell? What would you say? Are you asking me? Yeah, what would you do? What is selling to you? What do you do? What makes you a good salesperson? I don't know if I am. I mean, I think - You are, but what do you do? What would I do?

45:05I would tell you all the benefits of what it is and how it would help you. Okay. I would be focused on you, not about, is that not right? Well, it's right, but there's a bigger answer. It's not incorrect. Yeah, of course you do that. You're also very good at building rapport, right? Yeah, very good at that. Right, right. Your energy, you can match energy really well, right? Yeah. You come off as a figure of authority, right? So people will listen to you because you're an authority. All these things you do, right? Right. But what really happens, what sales really is at the highest level, it's the transference of emotion.

45:37And the emotion you're transferring is certainty. I'm going to buy, for example, if you're going to be selling me whatever it is. Slate. Slate. Which is, by the way, amazing. Slate, right? Okay, right. So it's slate, right? So, okay. How sure are you? How sure are you this is amazing? Well, I love the taste. I'm very sure. Incredibly sure, right? 100 % sure. So what the 10, where are you? What the 10? 10. Okay, right. Where am I? You're at zero right now. Really? No. One, two, three. Who fucking knows? Right. How could you know? I don't know. But the moment I looked at this can, I landed at a seven and a half.

46:11Why? Yeah. Okay. The packaging looked good. I trusted you. So immediately everything I know about energy drinks, coffee, whatever, French vanilla, immediately my brain will take all my experiences and put me somewhere because I'm from earth. Whether you're selling cars, homes, slate, books, the person that you're trying to sell to, the moment they know what the product is, their brain will take everything they've ever heard, seen, experienced, their prejudices, good, bad, and land somewhere on this scale of certainty, right? But where are you? You're at a 10. Why? Because you know how awesome it is.

46:47So what's your job now? If you want to get me to that level of absolute certainty, because listen, where do you want me on the scale that I absolutely love? If I'm at a three or four, am I buying this stuff? No. Right. If I'm at a nine or 10, good chance. Yes. Right. So what I would do is, and what I would naturally do is, because it's the truth, and that's why I can only really sell things that like - And it tastes great, by the way. It tastes amazing. There's 20 grams of protein, zero sugar. It's 110 calories. It's way better than all the other junk out there. And if you're into health or fitness or wellness, you would rather have this than like a bunch of junk.

47:22Totally right. So, okay. So those are all features, right? Okay, yeah. And then the benefits could be how it would make me feel. But the point is, is that if you're the salesperson, whatever you're selling, the salesperson needs to enter at this level of absolute certainty, right? And then their job is they want to transfer that certainty to the person they're trying to sell to, right? To make them hopefully as or close to as certain as they are, right? Right. So let's say you do that. Okay. Right. Let's say you do that. Right. And when you're done, give me the features and benefits and you know, and I'm like, wow, this shit's really good.

47:54I'm like, wow, this stuff is really good. It's a 10. Right. Question. Will I buy? Will I buy? Yeah. The answer is not yes. And the answer is not no. The answer is maybe. Right. I said, yeah, yeah. Like I want to hear what you're going to say. Maybe I will. Right. Why is it maybe? Because what if in the process of you making me certain you did it in a way that maybe not trust you or not like you? What if the way you talk to me, it offended me. And so, so yeah, I, you convinced me it's great. I'm like, well, I don't trust this person. Am I going to buy from you? No. Right. So it's not enough that they love the product.

48:29They also have to trust the sales person or the person who's presenting them with the product. Right. So let's just say those, let's say you did that well. Right. Would I buy now? The answer still is maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. Why? Because what if I don't trust the company that manufactures the product? There's something about this. It's an unknown company. I don't know how they are. I don't really know how it does. And sometimes that can be very profound in certain industries. Sometimes it's less important, but the bottom line is this. It's not enough for any one of those things. What you're doing as a salesperson is you're aligning all three of those elements.

49:00You're trying to increase someone's certainty for all three of these things. They want a product, yourself, the company that stands behind the product, right? And then the goal is to get them to that 10, 10, 10 in a single moment in time, and then you ask them to purchase, right? Now, there's more to it than that because there are all these rules of persuasion, for example. So let's say you know you have to line those three elements up. Well, the million-dollar question is how? How do you go about doing that, right? Well, there's another side to this that has to do with how you're initially perceived.

49:32And then we get back to how I invented the straight line, which was back at Stratton when I had this situation where I was closing at a very high level, and so was Danny. We were killing it, right? I invented a new, I found a niche in the stock market, right? An untapped niche, right? And what happened was I was closing at 50%. Danny was in the forties, 40%, right? And my 12 kids had the average IQ of Forrest Gump on three hits of acid, right? Not the sharpest tools in the shed. No Ivy League diplomas. They were like the, you know, basically no members of the lucky sperm club. They were 18 to 20 year old kids that barely clawed the way out of high school.

50:08kids that were never told by their parents they were capable of greatness. And any greatness they had in them naturally was beaten out of them since the day they were basically born, right? So those are my people, right? And I already taught them a system of how to close average moms and pops on penny stocks. $500 trades, easy to do. And my system worked. But when I found this new system, which was selling$5 to$10 stocks to the richest 1%, we didn't call people, we were all multimillionaires, we called, right? So I was able to do it. Danny was able to do it. And these 12 kids a month later hadn't closed a single account.

50:42I was making millions of dollars. Danny was making millions. The kids were making zero after a month, right? So I'm like, how is this possible? We're calling the same people using the same script, right? Same stock, same everything, same leads. I'm at 50 % closing rate. Danny's is in the 40s. They're at zero, right? And for a month, I couldn't figure it out. And I was already considered to be like an amazing sales trainer at this point. But something was missing. Anyway, long story short, I stumbled on it after a month of just like banging my head against the wall, reading every book about sales.

51:15I tried everything. Nothing worked. Nothing could get these kids to close. And finally, one night, I was giving a marathon, like five-hour training session at night to my 12 guys, right? And I looked at them and, guys, I don't get it. You know, I'm doing it. Danny's doing it. I know you can do it too, right? And like, what's the problem? They stood yelling, there's too many objections. One guy goes, there's a thousand objections. Someone goes, yeah, there's a thousand objections. Another guy goes, we can't even get our pictures off. They keep cutting us off. The rich people are assholes. Someone says, there's a thousand objections.

51:45I said, great. I'll tell you what. And I whiteboard, let's write all thousand objections down. Right? I said, come on, let's call them out. Right? And I said, it's a long story. I'm going to keep going here. No, this is fascinating. So like, is it like the takeaway clothes you do? No, nothing about that. Nothing about that. Nothing about that. Okay, so what do you guys go on? Completely different, right? So I said, guys, call them out. Someone goes, they want to call back. I said, great. What else? They want to think about it. I wrote that down. What else? They want to call their wife. What else?

52:11Great. Bad time here. They paused. I'm like, what else? Silence. I'm like, guys, that's four objections. There's 996 to go. Let's fucking go, right? And on and on they went, on and on. They're calling out every conceivable objection they could think of. And at the end of the day, the ball was filled with objections. You know how many? 14 fucking objections. Not 1 ,000, 14. And half of those were repeats of two. It was like, I want to speak to my wife, my partner, my business, my lawyer. or it's a bad time. It's Christmas time. It's back to school time. It's fucking leafy at Groundhog's Day. Bullshit.

52:42I don't speak to Santas, the fucking tooth fairy, right? And in that moment, I got so pissed off, right? And I looked at them and I'm like, you guys are unbelievable. You're whining about these thousand objections. There's 14 and even half of them are repeats as two. But you know what? Even those don't matter. I'm like, don't you guys get it? And suddenly this thought pops in my head. I'm like, every sale's the same. And they're like, what? Like, I mean, every sale is the same, you know, see by their expressions, every sale is different. People have different needs, different values, different pain points, different experiences.

53:14They say different things, right? They're like, every sale is different. Like guys, every sale is the same watch. And this idea pops in my head and I'm like, it's a straight line. And I draw a straight line across the board for the very first time. I put a big, big X on either end. I say, this is your open where the sale begins. This is the close. And then I start teaching the system with a straight line. And then I said, I'll leave it out. And you go and see this on videos. It's all over YouTube, right? And then I said, now guys, when you were selling penny stocks, and it was easy. Every once in a while, you get an easy lay down sale, right?

53:45That doesn't happen anymore. What's happening is this. And I realized something that hit me. They were saying they kept getting cut off. The rich people were assholes. They couldn't even get their pitches off, right? Now, guess what? I was not getting cut off. People never cut me off. I was getting the same objections they were getting, right? But I was getting them at the end after I asked for them to buy. That's why I asked for the order. They were getting cut off in the beginning. And I'm like, it just hit me. It was so profound. I'm like, wait a second. I'm not having trouble getting my pitch off.

54:19People listen to me. And I'm like, and then it hit me. I said, guys, when you're speaking to smart people, when you're speaking to people, everyone's smart now. We all got smartphones, right? When you're speaking to people smart and educated, you have four seconds to establish three crucial things. I'll tell you what they are. Number one, you must be perceived as being sharp as a tack. Number two, enthusiastic as hell. And number three, most important of all, an expert in your field. You got four seconds to do it because people judge books by their covers. We seize people, we size them up, we make a snap judgment.

54:48And here's what happens. If you're perceived the right way, sharp, on the ball, enthusiastic, and most importantly, an expert, what do you do in the presence of an expert, you defer. You let the expert control the conversation. We've been conditioned since we're yay big. When we were kids, you're sick, where do you go? Parents take you to the doctor. The doctor dresses a certain way. Even your own parents defer to the doctor, right? When the doctor says to you, so how long has it been? You don't say, well, how long has you answered their questions honestly and forthrightly, right? So we have been conditioned with coaches, tutors.

55:21If there's adults that you need advice on taxes, you hire an accountant. You want to get in trouble, you hire a lawyer, right? We seek out experts to help us solve our problems. And when we're in the presence of an expert, what do we do? We defer. We let them control the flow of the encounter. Right. But when you're in the presence of someone you believe is a novice, what do you do? You try to take control. Right. What was happening is I was a natural born closer, all right? As was Danny, right? And I taught Danny something about sales, but he took to it like a fish to water, right? Right. So when people would hear my voice from the second I opened up my mouth in the first few seconds, they're like, fuck, this guy's sharp.

56:00This guy's an X. I sat, I was coming off a certain way and they weren't. I was using certain million dollars. So how do you do that? Is it the words you say? Well, it really can't be right. What could you say to someone in four seconds? Right. I'm sure I'm an expert. I'm an enthusiast. I'm an expert. No. So you sound like an asshole, right? So it's, you do it through unconscious communication, tonality, body language, There's certain tonalities you use in person, body language. And what happens is people, you fall into this, you hit this box in their mind, they're uncut, that this is an expert.

56:30So what do they do? They defer to you. In that moment, when they defer, it opens up the possibility to make every sale the same. See, if you're in control of the sale, you can now run a strategy. Let's say intuitively I knew these three things. See, I knew these three things had to line up. I never thought about it before. I did it automatically because it was natural, born closer. Right. I was doing all of these things that were like perfection in sales. I closed, out closed anyone I ever went up against when I was very young, even. Naturally, I just knew what to say. And there are other people around the world that are natural born closers, but most people aren't.

57:04Right. So how do you teach it? Well, what happens is what the straight line does is this visual and you see it play, you're like, oh my God. And I break it down into each of its components and I give you a step-by-step formula. And it always starts with this. You must learn how to take control of the cell to be perceived the right way as an expert. Once you learn how to be perceived as an expert and sharp on the board, it opens up a universe because now you can actually say, all right, I'm going to do this first. You have a logical progression. And if you know what things have to line up, you can then line them up the same way.

57:39And that's what I was doing. And when I taught this, and there's much more to it. I've gone for three hours with this, right? I teach this around the world. It's three days at a time, right? But the point is, is that when someone that is, and most people, there's a spectrum. Some people are just awful. Many people are decent. Some people are talented. They don't understand strategy. But there's a spectrum. When they learn the straight line, it's like a monitor from heaven. So you could take someone that's terrible at sales and make them good. Not like me. You make them good. It's not going to hold them back, right?

58:12You take someone who's good and make them amazing. Take someone who's amazing. They'll be one of the top closest in the world. So it works for everybody in every industry, and it's easy to learn. Easy to learn. So I think what really— Did the 12 men learn—the 12 people learn that? They didn't—so they hadn't closed a sale in 30 days. That next morning, we came back, and they went on an account opening spree of such biblical proportions. They were all millionaires in 90 days, and Stratton became the largest firm in the country selling$5. We had 3 ,000 people. That was—the success of Stratton was based on the straight line.

58:45It was the straight line that fueled Stratton, not the stocks. Right, right, right. And the problem was is that the mistake I made was I didn't understand enough about creating the better company. So like my ability to sell out, fuel my ability to create the right stocks. Right, right. And that was a problem. And then, of course, you know, it doesn't help when you're doing six quailies a day and snorting cocaine and, you know, partying six nights a week in the city. And it became like, you know what it was? It was like the most fun place. It was before, like, you know, people had smartphones. Yeah, of course.

59:13You know what the fuck you want. Now you're being deep shit, right? Of course. But it was a different time, different social rules. And we had our own set, even within those, you see how things are now. So things were different there. But even then we had our own alternative universe inside the four walls of the boardroom. Like all things, people would walk in there. Whenever they walk in the boardroom, they're like, what the fuck? It's like animals running around, well, not hooks, but girls in mini strips. I can't even imagine. Okay. So by the way, we got kind of off. I know. Although that was very fascinating, and I actually want to know how you would sell that.

59:47I'm curious. How would you get someone to attend? What? If you were selling Slate or, you know, Ferrisage or whatever, what would, like, this is - What I would do, I'll tell you, because there's a great, if someone wants to watch a video - Yeah. Of me selling, there's a great video of me doing just this thing. It was in Australia, and it was selling a financial services package to some guy, right? Okay. A CEO, right? It was actually staged, though. It was staged by a psychology company that was trying to understand the straight line and break it into psychological components. They spent a lot of money, paid me a lot of money to do this.

1:00:21It was like in 2010. And what they did is they gave me what are called critical incident scenarios, right? And it's where they hand you like a dossier, right? And they say, okay, here's a fur coat company. And they give you like this big, all things. And these are your customers. Go prepare. And then we're going to film you. How would you sell it, right? I did it for a few things, fur coat company, automobile. And then they did this thing with this financial services package, right? Right. And they gave me this big dossier. It was about a milk company, dairy company, right? Okay. That was big in Australia and they wanted to expand it to China.

1:00:53And they were looking for better banking relationships and so forth, blah, blah, blah. And they said, okay, you got 15 minutes to prepare, right? And then we're going to call them. This is an actor who's a CEO. And we want you to close them. The cameras, everyone, lights just like this, lights, cameras, right? We want to tape it and see how you go about doing it. And I'm like, all right, great. So they hand me the dossier and I start reading through it. I'm writing some shit down. I'm looking for the whole thing to find facts about the company, right? They come in like 20 minutes later and I'm like, are you ready?

1:01:18I'm like, can I have more time? They're like, yeah, sure. Take as much time as you want. I said, great, thanks. I kept writing, looking at my stuff, planning it out, right? 30 minutes later, like, are you ready? I'm like, just give me a little more time. I'm like, all right, no problem. 30 minutes more. Like, you ready? No, just give me 15 minutes more. Finally, after an hour and 45 minutes, right? I said, okay, I'm going to come in, right? Yeah. The psychologist sit down in the corners, the cameras are rolling, the guy comes in, he's the CEO, right? He's playing the role, he's really talented, active.

1:01:44I mean, he was fucking really good. He acted like the CEO and knew everything about the company. And we start getting into this, you know, sales, right? On camera. Yeah. And I'm using the straight line at a very high level, right? And I'm using all the things I know how to do and I'm moving them down the straight line, so to speak, right? And then I find it's really going well. I asked him to buy and he wants to think about it. And I do what's called looping and I loop back. I do another thing, blah, blah, blah. All these things that you would learn with a straight line. And I asked for the order again.

1:02:11And I haven't, and he's close. And he's like, nah, nah. I just, I said, let me, you know, let me just speak to my part in the first. And then I do another loop again. And I pull out one of my most powerful language patterns, right? And I guide him into this perfect close. Like it's almost, it's impossible for him to say no, right? And he's like, nah, I just, I can't do it. So I'm like, all right, double secret probation. I do one more loop back again. I raise his pain threshold, another impeccable rap I give him, right? And I ask for the order again. Just believe me, you will not be sorry. Does that sound fair enough?

1:02:47He's like, fine, I'll do it. And he puts his head down. He starts cracking up. And the psychologist pop up. Everyone's like, what the hell just happened? I'm like, what happened? They're like, we paid him to say no. He wasn't allowed to say yes. Are you serious? He goes, we told him, you cannot say yes on the any, the guy's like, you were too compelling. I couldn't say, I felt like an idiot and he couldn't. Okay. Now, so, and then they go, but that's not even the craziest part. I'm like, what's the craziest part? He goes, we tested 50 other people on the same scenario. No one closed the guy. I'm like, okay, well that doesn't surprise me.

1:03:22He goes, no one spent more than five minutes looking at the material. Wow. I'm like, what? They're like, no one spent, well, they just skimmed it and the guy came in. You studied for an hour. I'm like, of course I did. I couldn't sell this to you. You know what I would do? I'd say, give me all the fucking, and I would come up with the most perfect way. Why? Because I know I have to learn three tents. I have to sell, I need three or four ways to sell you on this product, logically and emotionally. There's certain, I want to know features. I could wing it and do a decent job because I'm good at this stuff.

1:03:54But to really do it, I would sit there and prepare myself for a couple of hours and write it all out. So I had it basically sort of met. I wouldn't have a script for it, but I want to know. And in my own mind, I know exactly where the sale was going to go before. I would take immediate control by coming on like an expert. Because you were an expert by that point. And also, my ability to use tone. But here's the thing. I can sound like an expert even if I'm a novice with something. I've trained myself, and you can. Now, I don't suggest this, but one of the biggest problems with salespeople is they feel like they're just getting started in a certain career with a certain product, and they don't feel like they have the confidence and they don't want to sound like an expert.

1:04:30that you can't do that. You have to future pace. You have to act as if. So you can sound like an expert even when you're not. There's many people out there who are fucking experts and they sound like novices. So it's not really what you are. It's what you sound like. Now, that might sound ethical. No, it's so true. Here's what I know. I'm not saying you should pretend to be an expert and just do that. No, while you're closing the knowledge gap, you should be stuttering your ass off every day becoming an expert. But there's no reason you can't sound like one, they won. You get it? So the first thing I'm selling, I sound like I know more about it and I'm very good at putting words together.

1:05:07This is a natural talent. So some people struggle a bit more. Maybe they'll close a bit lower than anybody. But anybody with practice and hard work can become an expert and you can learn to sound on by using certain tonalities. That's great though. I mean, that's true. I agree with that because if you do the more information you have, obviously you're going to be able to be better. How are they going to close this guy, I was able to I was saying things to this guy about his business he didn't know. He didn't read the thing. I read the fucking I read every fucking statistic I had things about like the difference in the currency of China to the one and fucking swaps.

1:05:38He was like his eyes were rolling around. He didn't know what to do. It was so much that he felt like if he said no he'd be an idiot. And that's what he said he was like I felt an idiot if I said no. And is this in the straight line? It's on YouTube. I'm going to watch it now. Jordan Belfort selling live. And at the end you just see everyone stay, got cut off and they all stood up at the end, but that they were like laughing. And that's why they were laughing, right? Because the guy was paying him to say no. Wow.

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1:07:29So then you were doing this, you're starting the whole speaking circuit before the movie was even out. So this is the best part of all. And you were getting better at it. So I built this huge business. How much was your fee to even go speaking? By the time before the movie came out, I was getting over$100 ,000. So you were like a super successful speaker. Yes. The same people who were promoting Tony were promoting me around the world, right? Wow, yeah. And I had this massive, so it wasn't nearly like it is today. No. Obviously, right? But back then, I was doing really, really well. So what happened was, there was this four-year gap.

1:08:04Okay, wait, the movie came out in 2013. And they bought it in 2007. Yeah. So when the first script was written, it ended with me going to jail. That was the end of the movie. There was no sell me this pen. And there was no commercials with the straight line. Remember that in the straight line? That didn't exist. Because I didn't teach the straight line on TV before. But what happened was when four years passed, Leo comes to my house now. When he came to my house the first time, I was living in a tiny little house, okay? Like a little tiny house. I had an apartment. Like it was probably 2 ,000 a month, right?

1:08:36And four years later, he goes, I'm coming over. Let's celebrate. He comes over. And I'm living in a beautiful mansion in Manhattan Beach on the water. like a 15 million. He was like, what the fuck happened to your life? That's hilarious. I'm like, oh no, I rebuilt my business in four years. He's like, what do you do? I'm like, I do these seminars. I teach. He goes, show me. So I put the video up of, you know, Frank Curran of that name? He was an old internet marketer back. He was very popular many years ago, right? I had this Frank Curran that I did. Everyone loved this tape. It was me on stage teaching the straight line.

1:09:03And I show Leo. He's like, oh my God. Wait till Marty sees this. He goes, we're going to change the whole movie. He goes, this is going to be a comeback story. I can't hold you. You just gave me the biggest gift. This is going to be 10 times better movie now. Because it's going to be like up. And then Marty saw this and was like, he became obsessed. I sent Marty 50 videos on the straight line. There was a four hour cut of the movie before the final cut that was shown to some people privately that had like 10 times as much. Marty loved the sales stuff. Because it was so, they said so much about what really happened.

1:09:36100%. Right? It had to cut up because it was just too long. But what happened was it created, A, those scenes where I come back with a, where I'm giving seminars. I love that part. Which is funny, right? And I get arrested, right? And that was fictionalized. Like, I wasn't teaching the straight line. But they loved it so much, they put it in there, my new life and the old. And then they end the movie where I go to jail and ends up with me selling this pen, which is this iconic scene at the end. So, you know, really, I rewrote my own life story while it was being made into a movie. I changed my own ending through hard work, perseverance, and some luck too, but mostly hard work and perseverance.

1:10:12You know what I'm saying? That is so amazing. So when did they actually start filming? 2012. Oh, and they turned it around that fast? Very fast. So then, okay, then how much did you sell the script for? Complex. So I sold it originally for an option. So I got back a total in the beginning. I got, before it was bought, I got about$700 ,000 for just the option money. Oh, just option. Okay. And then when the script was bought, I got a million one. And then did you get any back end of the movie? No, no. Are you serious? No, but there's something, I'm in litigation. I can't talk about it right now, but there's some things happening right now.

1:10:45Because that's like, no one thought probably how, that movie is literally one of the most popular movies of all time. Yeah, it's amazing. And it's funny. And girls and boys. I'll tell you the interesting thing, which is really what it's been so amazing for me in terms of my business, because when the movie came out, It was 2013, right? Kids are in high school. And I have fans of all ages, up to your mother would love the movie. I'm talking, that's the thing. Women love it. Men love it. Kids love it. My sister was telling me her little nephew. It's insane, I know. But here's the interesting thing, though.

1:11:20So in 2010, as a kid, let's say he's 16 years old, right? He's in high school. He's probably a junior or something, right? Maybe he's a freshman or a sophomore. He watched the movie. He loves it. He sees it three times. He sees it five more times in college. He gets out. He goes into the workplace. He sees it 10 more times. He strikes it rich as a businessman. What does he do? He hires me to come speak and consult at his company. So all these kids age that will wash them. They're all hearting me now. I was going to just, you know what I was thinking? They age up. And to teach them the straight line.

1:11:55And I teach this very ethical version that like, you know, really empowers people, makes sure they sell ethically. So I teach this ethical version. And my business gets bigger every year because kids aging up. No, I swear. I was just thinking, like, I want my son Dylan, who's 11, to take a picture with you because he doesn't know you now. Right. But in a year, he's going to watch your movie. You know, in a couple of years, maybe now. Listen, I got to tell you, I have no idea. Like, sometimes I'm shocked. Like, I used to live in the Strand. I live in Miami now, but I used to live in the Strand in Manhattan Beach.

1:12:22Yeah. And on July 4th, I'm with my wife, and we're playing backgammon, like, our house is right where we're on the Strand. Yeah. So people are walking by. And we're playing backgammon, and we're just going to be five feet off the strand in our little, just one's chairs. And I go, excuse me. And I look, and it's a kid like this big. He's like seven years old. He goes, are you the Wolf of Wall Street? I'm like, yeah. He goes, I'm your biggest fan. I'm like, where's your mother? That's hilarious. I'm like, I want to say, you're? He's like, yeah, I read the book. I'm like, yeah, and movie too. I'm like, what the fuck?

1:12:55See? Do you get recognized all the time? Everywhere. wear yeah he should like no like like i can't like but tsa like it's funny right i can't go through if i go to an airport i can't like tsa every customs do people go crazy for you yeah people are very they're always the people could not be nice and i've never refused a picture with one person that's ever asked me do people freak out because like people like why are you here i'm like i have to be somewhere that's like last night i went out with a friend of mine to a club here in the little finland was a floor or something and i don't go to clubs but he enjoys we went there late right and there's one girl she's like oh my god oh my i'm like well i'm here i have to be somewhere i'm here you have to be somewhere right why are you what are you doing here oh my god i just told her i could i would think even more than like a celebrity because it's like they saw that your life story yeah yeah and you're still like they saw your life story and it was so compelling and like it's just i think it that's why i was like so how i am so excited but uh but then okay okay so then like a movie gets made so then you said that you have you can't talk about all of it, but you sell it, you make a million won from it.

1:13:59No, I can talk about that, but I ended up having to sue them later, because the people that made the movie... I was going to say the Malaysian people, the Goldman Sachs guys, were the financiers. Right, that's why I was... For the last four years, I've been in litigation with them to get some rights back, but we're going to settle something. But that's the part that I need to ask you about. So basically, who found them as the financiers for the movie? So tell them who they are. The guy, they're in the news right now. Jolo. This guy, Reza Aziz, right there's a major jet netflix uh movie on them right now yes it's called man on the run right yeah man on the run billion dollar whale was them too right so it was the prime minister of malaysia's stepson right he was the founder right and they came in with gang like money like and it was everyone they were telling everyone was oil it was like saudi oil money and they were right so no one knew right and at the time i didn't know no one really knew you know you know and um so you know I met with them, I met with the CEO, I met with the production people.

1:14:56You did or did Marty do it? No, we did. No, we did. I did. Leo did. We had a big lunch, right? So you were involved with the production of the movie? No, no, just to buy the movie. No, that's what I mean. You were involved? Like after you sold it to Warner Brothers as an option and all the other stuff? No, it just sat there for like - Right, forever. When they finally got, when they finally, when I had this meeting with the Malaysians, right? Right. But wait, hold on. Let's go back a second. So then you stole the option. then you get the million one once the movie's now greenlit being made. No, that's from the Malaysians.

1:15:24Oh, so, okay, go ahead. I thought what would happen is Warner Brothers then gave you some money and they would take care of it. Option expired. I got the movie back. So I got twice. They paid me option money twice, but they never exercised the option. I got the property back. Then Leo and his manager found these Malaysians, and at the time no one knew they were crooks. No. Right? They were just super rich, and then they spent money. I'd never seen people spend money. So I thought they were, at the time, I was like, this is just like the old scam of raising money and spending it. Like, you know, it happens on venture capital.

1:15:57Like, you raise a billion, because they were spending money like crazy. But you didn't know it was stolen money. You thought it was just like milking the arrows. It was insane. And they had so much money. So I sold them. The script thinking was legit. Everyone thought they were legit. And then right around the time the movie came out, rumblings started happening. and the money may have been diverted. At first, I was like, whatever. It was upsetting, but over time, it built and built. Eventually, they had to pay$60 million. They disappeared. One of them got indicted. The CEO of Red Gratw. Got indicted in Malaysia.

1:16:32Jolo went on the run. The whole thing, right? Did he get a facelift to change his face to? That's what I heard. You could be Jolo, by the way. Yeah, I could be. You could be. But I'm not that I know of. Never your Jolo. Yeah. You're not Jolo, are you? Uh-oh. We caught you. Yeah, no, no. So anyway, I think he's in China, but that's the word. Oh, really? Yeah, so what happened was the rights, so the rights got sort of frozen, and that's what it was, we should have made a TV series and done all this stuff, and that's why I got into litigation with them to try to get the rights back. And yeah, so I don't want to talk about any more about that.

1:17:02I understand. It's still ongoing, but so yeah, and those guys are, you know, I think one guy, the CEO of Red Granite is like, I think he didn't go to jail, but like whatever, you know, he paid some money and that's that, right? But his father, the premier minister, is still in jail. He got sentenced to 12 years. I think yesterday, they reduced it to six. He was getting out soon, in a year. Jolo, never found him. He got away with the money in China somewhere. Wow. That is so crazy. Who distributed the movie, though? Wasn't it? Domestically, it was Paramount. And then different companies all over the world.

1:17:32I can't even believe that. By the way, do you still talk to Leo? Do you still talk to - I do. I speak to Leo, yeah. He's amazing. He's the best. I mean, you picked the best. I mean, he crushed that movie. He's the best. That movie is like - He should have gotten the Academy Award. I cannot believe he did not get that. I mean - He got it the next year with the Rebben. He goes, I had to freeze to death and fucking get it at the Academy Award. I should have got it for the Wolf of Wall Street. 100%. Like, so how did it like, so when that movie came out, how did it really change your life though, in a real way?

1:18:02Well, in stages. So what happened was, here's the interesting thing. So the movie comes out. Yeah. It's a huge hit. Right off the bat. Right. It's a huge hit, right? Did anyone expect it to be even close to that? They did. People who saw it, we knew it. When I saw the movie the first time, I was like, I mean, everyone that saw it was like, what the fuck? No, it was, oh, Margot Robbie. Who picked her? Marty. Marty. I only picked Leo and I picked Leo and Marty. And then everything else was Marty after that. So who was it between? Was it anyone between her? Margot, it was a few other actresses up for the role back then, but she was just head and shoulders the best.

1:18:37Beyond. She's so talented. And she's the most beautiful human being in the world. She's the nicest person you'll ever fucking meet. Seriously. Can you believe that you had the biggest of the biggest? You had Martin Scorsese do your movie. Leo DiCaprio. You didn't have B-listers on this thing. But I go back to one thing about that. Some, of course, it's lucky. But it goes back to the hard work. It was the skill. the time I put in to learn how to write, which allowed me to tell a story in a very compelling way that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. No matter how good the story was, if I didn't know how to tell it the right way, structure it, and put together the words in a way that people would laugh and turn the page, it didn't matter how great the story was.

1:19:25I served up to Leo on a silver platter. Totally. And then he saw it, and then he, of course, and there was Leo's, and Leo was the one that drove it forward. It was Leo. Well, because he's such a - It was his passion project, and he knew, and Leo believed in this so much. So he really gets the credit for one. Scorsese came in at the, he was there in the beginning and then was like, he was less involved or interested. Well, yeah, he just didn't, he always liked it, but it was like he had other, he had his passion project, which was I think, what was that movie he made without the priests going in, whatever, it was a silence.

1:19:56He was desperate to make this movie silence. That was his passion project, right? So he didn't, nothing even liked it, it just wasn't his passion. But then once he started, here's what Leo said. I ran, it was like maybe six months ago, Leo and I were in, um, Con Phil Festival, right? And we were on a boat together and we're having dinner. Like when he's sitting, he's sitting next to me at dinner. Right. And he goes, you know what? I'm going to tell you this. He goes, I have never seen Marty Scorsese as happy and carefree as when he was making the Wolf of Wall Street. Really? He was smiling every single day.

1:20:25Like you never. And that made me happy to hear that. And I think also it reflects in the movie, like how happy he was. And he was like this light, you know, you know, he just had this, like this poem to it was light and, you know. It was fun. Like, so many of his movies, I know he's phenomenal and a great actor. They're in a darker, right? Yeah, not even that, like, they drag a little bit, you know? Like, this one, like, it hooks you the second it starts and it doesn't, you don't let go until the end. Like, it is such a good movie. It is. in terms of, like, from the beginning to the end, you know?

1:20:55Like, the whole thing. He's a, so, I mean, listen, you know, the script was amazing, but a lot can go wrong. A lot to go wrong. And like, he just took that script and we polished it. I mean, I polished every word. Terry wrote an amazing script, but I worked myself at least 50 hours on that script also after Terry wrote it. I wrote the book and I didn't write this. He wrote the script to get credit. But I made sure every word was authentic. And Leo did too. Like Leo painstakingly over every fucking word. Really? Oh my God. So like Leo, I spent a year with him. He was so intense in getting this right.

1:21:32Like, so he's talented, of course. Yeah. But he works his ass off. That's what I was going to say. It sounds like it. No, he's like preparing for this thing. Like, you know, it was unbelievable. How come they always work together, those two? I feel like they're like a pair. Well, for example, I think there's others' pairs, but they're one of the top. De Niro and Scorsese as well. But what it is for an actor like Leo is a bad director could fuck up a movie. Yeah. I mean, you could be the greatest actor in the world if it's a bad director. So for Leo, it's so much an insurance policy. So Leo will only work with really Tarantino.

1:22:05He's very careful, Leo, with who he works with, right? Because as talented as he is, the wrong director could fuck up the movie, right? And I think the same thing goes for a director. It's like, they're great, but if the actors can't bring it to the table, there's a comfort. So I think that's why. Has any of this, you know what's funny? I feel like what happened with jail and everything else, it doesn't seem like it affected you and it would most of other, like it didn't. You bounce back, I think, incredibly well and fast beyond anybody else. Again, how, why? How did that happen? It affected me, but in a positive way.

1:22:42So I think what happens, it was so important for me to go to jail. It was so important because, so here's people say, you know, how did you turn your life around? Yeah. And also nobody even, I feel like, not that we forget, but it doesn't affect your reputation. Like people don't, that's not the first thing that I think of. Right. Well, listen, there's always some people who want to be assholes and let them have their good, good for them. They're entitled to feel what they want to feel. But 95 % of the world feels the opposite and that's fine with me. Right. But here's, here's the truth. So like, I didn't like have to change into a becoming a good person from becoming a bad person.

1:23:16If you believe in good and bad people or bad people doing good things, but I didn't have to, what happened was I had to change back into the person I was originally. I was originally a really good kid. I'd never gotten in trouble. It wasn't like that wasn't my life. My parents never. I was raised by the most legitimate family. Everyone went to college. My brother's a top lawyer. My two first cousins are doctors from Harvard, famous surgeons. Everyone, no one got in trouble in my family. Also, you were just ambitious. I feel like you didn't want to get your - It was ambitious that went off the walls, right?

1:23:47Right, but that can happen. In addition, it turned into greed, okay? And with massive drug abuse attached to it, right? But I don't blame the drugs. All the drugs did was help me quiet the critics. So like after I was doing shit that I should have been doing, the drugs make you feel better about it, right? But it wasn't the drugs. It was really greed. And also, I have to say, I want to be the best at anything. So if I'm doing something bad, I got to be the best at doing something. Exactly. It's just terrible, right? But what jail did is it like, it was a recent, I need to become, what happened to me?

1:24:17What did I do? What were my values? that like, so example, if you would have asked me at the age of 26, you know, what's the purpose of a business? I'd say the purpose of a business is to make money as much as you can. But in reality, that's not the purpose or the function of a business. The function of a business is to monetize value. So you have something of value and you build a business that allows you to deliver that value to a lot of people in a cost-effective way. So you make a profit. The more people you help, the more money you make. But it's not like you go into business. You don't go into business, I'm gonna make money.

1:24:44It's to monetize something of value, right? So today, like when I go out, from the moment I left jail, I've been engaged in one transaction, done one deal, or brought something to the market that I didn't think I was giving a lot more value than what I was charging for it. Wait, are you allowed to do any financial stuff? Of course I do, yeah. So you weren't bad for doing it? I wasn't bad for trading or anything like that. You weren't? No. So you can still do any of that stuff? I do, and I trade all the time. I don't trade. I invest. I don't believe in short-term trading, but I invest in the stock market.

1:25:14I have some Bitcoin. I do a lot of venture capital. Are you allowed to have like your own private equity firm if you wanted to? I wouldn't want to. No, but are you allowed? Up to a certain amount of investors. Oh, okay. But I could not have anything that was regulated. But what I can't do is own a brokerage firm. You cannot. I cannot own a brokerage firm. But you - Know what I want to. Nor would you want to. But you didn't even go to jail for anything that actually people are not doing right now. Which is crazy. Which is the irony. I think what happened was, is I think people's view of me changed after 2008.

1:25:40Where they're like, wait a second. Like what they did on Wall Street was so much worse than what I ever - I mean, listen, what I did was wrong. I never want to minimize that. Yeah, no, I understand. But I didn't bankrupt fucking Iceland. No. Or Greece. No, Wall Street, like, I mean, wow. When that came out, like, you know. I remember. They almost blew up the world economy through complete fraud and greed and insane selling shit products to institutions and pension funds and everyone's 401k, right? It almost destroyed the world. Oh, did you know who Michael Milken is? Yeah, he's great. He's amazing.

1:26:09Okay, right. And he went to jail for - Oh, bullshit. No, he did nothing, this guy. I was going to say, what I'm saying is it was something so minimal and nominal in the grand scope of what happened. He's a legend. I mean, he's like a legend, right? He's amazing. But isn't what you did, though, like it was pretty nominal in the grand scheme. It's nominal in the grand scheme, but still, I never want to say that what I did wasn't wrong. I'm not saying it was not wrong. But yes, the amount, listen, you know, I wish no one would have ever lost money from the actions I took. But when you compare it to what happens, it's nominal.

1:26:42So the amounts are tiny compared to what happens every day. It's insane. And that's kind of what the book, I wrote this book about, like, you have to avoid. Right, I wanted to ask you a couple questions. Well, you have to avoid that whole, this book shows you, like, what to do to avoid all that shit. I was going to ask you a question, though. What do you think of crypto, Bitcoin, all of those? I love Bitcoin. But isn't that considered to be, like, we don't know what's going to happen? Well, tell me your opinion first and then off. So I love Bitcoin, right, as a very long-term investment. not to try to trade Bitcoin to make money.

1:27:13All right. Bitcoin is 100 % legitimate right now. It's all the biggest institutions are, you know, big ETFs. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, it's legitimate now. It's decentralized. Okay. You know, maybe still manipulate a little bit here, but not like in an organized way. It's legit. I didn't think that many. I thought I was a very, very bearish on Bitcoin. I thought it was the biggest scam ever. Yeah. I thought so. Right. But I, but I, I just, it was my gut reaction. It was back then. It was being integrated. In the beginning, it was. But the idea, the coding was so brilliant that some people who were more insightful and sort than me, obviously, got involved.

1:27:50And ultimately, it was like the lie became the truth. Yeah. Okay? So now there's enough large players. And I believe it's totally legitimate. I own a lot of it. And I think that over the next five to 10 years, it's going to go much, much higher. Now, I feel very differently about crypto, the rest of crypto. Okay. I was going to say, so that part you're okay with. But the rest of it, I really, I'm not saying they're all bad, but most of those coins or tokens, they have no function other than speculation. So if you want to speculate, that's fine. And have fun and buy Dogecoin if you want to do so.

1:28:26But just know you're probably going to lose all your money, but that's okay. If you have fun, maybe you'll make money, but you're probably going to lose a lot of money, right? Right. But I think people should speculate because it's fun to speculate. But 95 % of your capital should be in the type of investments I talk about in the book, which are these index funds, which are the safest and the most – they outperform everything else. And there's reasons why. And also, you don't need a lot to start. Even if you're not rich, you can become rich over many years if you're smart and you just stay the course and not listen to the Jim Cramers of the world and all these people who are convincing you to buy this, sell this shit.

1:29:05You're never going to go on that on CNBC or wherever that is. They did not invite me on CNBC. They used to invite me. I knew this book by time on CNBC. But I've been on other stages. I'm going on Fox a bunch of times. I'll be on Gutfeld soon next week, two weeks from now. It was great. So I go on. I love going on TV. I love doing podcasts. Because you're such a great entertainer. When you speak, you're so enthusiastic. It's like a pleasure talking to you. I love making people laugh because I think it's great. and I love educating people, but I think people learn more when they're laughing and they're engaged.

1:29:38So when I'm doing my events, I try to mix humor and stories with actual learnings. And at the end of the day, that's been a very profitable formula for me and incredibly even more valuable for people who learn these things. I can't tell you how many people walk up and be like, you changed my life. You changed my life. You changed all, everywhere I go, you changed. No one ever says, you fucked me. Everyone's like, you changed my life. So it's like, that's, and they go through life like that. what a great way to go through the rest of my life. Well, yeah, because you're actually giving people actionable things that they can do.

1:30:08It's not just you yammering on and on, but there's things that they're like, it's compelling, and it's things that people can take away. Exactly. Is that how you spend your time? Are you doing mostly speaking gigs? Mostly consulting for companies. Oh, you do that still? And some companies I own myself. What do you own? Tell me what you own. There's different companies in the different spaces. I don't want to get into particular, right? Because the last thing I do is behind the scenes. because when you're a celebrity, it almost takes away from stuff. I don't want to like, some stuff is good. Other stuff is like, it's just like, it's about the product, not about me.

1:30:40You know what I'm saying? But I do consulting for all different types of company. You name it, I've consulted in the industry. That's probably 60 to 70 % of my business. Touring is probably 20 % and products are maybe 10%, like the online products and stuff. I would imagine that you would be like called from every major fortune 100 200 companies to go in and just train their sales teams i've gotten so that's interesting so i've gotten about i would say 30 of them but the 70 they're like use the word fuck too much you know really even though you'd be effective for them so what they do is they buy my courses i'm sure all the sales people do yeah like for example was it where was i in um an event in new york and i i would say every major had sales from everywhere not all of them have hired me but they're salesmen they say yeah go use the stuff yeah but like i you know i am i admit that you know i am not for everyone i think there's a lot of companies whose values like i just you know i'm much more out there with the cursing and the uh yeah but it's entertaining i know so the people love it but sometimes it doesn't get by the eight a lot of times like i get hired and hr kills it happens sometimes and i get that you know and that's fine well you know what it is we're living in a very woke liberal world right which is not my cup of tea don't even get me don't even get me i could talk about we can do a whole podcast about this get me fucking started okay believe me because i'm like the anti-woke bully i fucking hate it you and i both okay and so i think because of that companies have to shy away from anything that would be controversial or non-pc which is a bunch of nonsense yeah you know like i'm not a fan of what's going on in the world right now me neither yeah it's like a whole it's the opposite of empowered thinking and living.

1:32:22It's the opposite. It's the antidote of that. Mentality. I know. Exactly. Why this is not happening. I am enough culture. God forbid that you... I know. We're going to wrap it up. Can we do this? I know he has to go. Will you come back on this podcast? Anytime you want. No, I'm serious. We can do another one. We can do part two and part ten. I'm coming back here in March. You are? 100%, for sure. For over a week. Because this is like... I just love this is like my cup of tea, like everything about you and that sales piece. I think I'm going to have to like clip that in some way because I think a lot of people will find that so interesting.

1:33:01It's great. This is actionable stuff that people can really, if you're an entrepreneur, I'm talking to people, if you're an entrepreneur or someone who's like starting a business, like this is 101 what you need to do because if you're not a good salesperson, good luck. Makes it really hard to do anything else. That's like the foundation of starting. starting businesses. And that's the person at a company that is the most valuable. If you don't know how to sell, you're fucked. Period. Right? So, okay. So Jordan, where do people find you? The new book is called The Wolf of Investing. I highly recommend it.

1:33:36It's like all his other books. So easy to digest, understand. This information is really important too. So you can go jordanbellfort.com, Wolf of Wall Street on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter. And you'll find me. You'll find me. I'm everywhere. He's everywhere. And if you don't know who this guy is, you're living under a rock. You don't watch, you don't go out. Yeah, you don't go out. And go watch the movie if you haven't, please. I mean, you never know. People can be very young watching. So, anyway, thank you so much. My pleasure. This is awesome. Okay, bye.