Episode 589: Dr. Shefali: Raising Confident Kids Through Boundaries, Independence, and Emotional Resilience

24:29At the core, all children need the same thing.

24:32Dr. Shefali:They need safety, unconditional acceptance, present, attunement, time, energy, focus, right? At the core, we all need the same thing. But each one of us has a different influence. So if you're raising the same sex child, you're going to have a very different influence than the opposite, right? Right. So in a daughter's life, a father needs to realize that he is representing the outside world to her. So how he allows her to be powerful, sovereign, to have boundaries with him will be the way she practices how she is in the outside world. The mother is her closest mirror to how she will treat herself.

25:11Dr. Shefali:So if she sees a mother who is overly critical, overly self-shaming, perfectionistic, hard on herself, she's going to pick that up. Does this mother occupy her body with empowerment? Or does this mother critique herself, harm herself, deny herself, put herself last? She's watching the mother like a sponge, like it is happening at a cellular level. Wow. And with the father, she's going to practice how she doesn't need the father in the same way, except to practice. Can I test my boundaries? Can I stand up to a male? Can my father give me space? That's why I teach fathers, allow your daughter to rebel against you.

25:53Dr. Shefali:Allow her to fight back. Don't call her rude. Don't call her dramatic. Right. So many men especially look at female issues and go, my God, these women are so dramatic. We are not dramatic. We're just tuned to feel deeply. Our brains are wired to feel. So then, that's so gritty. I love that you just said that. And then what would happen? So if you have a boy, not a girl. Yes, let's talk about the boys. Let's talk about the boy then. So like if that's the case for the mom and the daughter and the father and the daughter, now what happens when I have a son? I will tell you. I will tell you. So let's talk about the boys.

26:32Dr. Shefali:First, we have to understand the boys' chemistry, okay? So just like girls are estrogen and oxytocin, love bonding, connection fueled, boys are wired through their body. They need to move. They need to express themselves physically. They need challenge. They need friction. They need to compete. They need to problem solve. They need to figure things out. They need adventure. They need discovery. from a young, young age. They cannot sit still. They cannot talk about their feelings. So when a mother tells a boy - I'm laughing because it's so funny. It's so true. Yeah. Mostly true. Yeah. A lot of, I mean, yeah.

27:12Yeah.

27:13Dr. Shefali:Mostly true. If a mother tells a boy, you know, look at your sister. She can talk about her feelings. She's only five. Look at her. She's amazing. That is really to not understand a boy. A boy cannot access his words. He's showing you through his body. It's bottom him up for a boy, for a girl is top down. Girls get coordinated much faster. Their left and right brain hemispheres talk to each other beautifully. The boys' brains are compartmentalized. That's why men are so compartmentalized. They can feel and then go kill someone. They can go kill the jackal or the bear and then come back and play with the babies.

27:50Dr. Shefali:They can do this because their hemispheres don't cross over. But they're incredibly infuriating for a mother because the mother is like, what is wrong with you? You don't feel anything. You don't care about me. And the mother can become overprotective, hovering, annoying, and nagging. And then the boy is just going to retreat because he's going to feel like I can never make this woman happy. She always wants me to talk. I cannot talk. And she is upset with me when I don't talk, but I need space. But he's expressing himself. He can feel as deeply. He just doesn't show it the same way. So I tell all mothers several things.

28:25Dr. Shefali:Number one, stop nagging your boys. Give them space. Join them through the adventure, through their game, through their physical. Go out with them. Play with them. Ask them to contribute. Boys need purpose and competence. Make them feel useful. That's how you can connect with your boy. Number two, do not see your son's wild energy as a trauma replication of your past relationships with abusive men. That's a lot. That's a lot. Because many times I see mothers just completely emasculate their sons because they're like, you will not abuse me. You will not treat me. But it's a boy. But she's remembering her past trauma.

29:13Dr. Shefali:It's really sad. to watch boys being shamed, but also to see mothers recreating old trauma and seeing their boys as their fathers or as their abusive male exes. And so it's a real distorted, distorted mirror. Yeah. So, I mean, literally most of us women have trauma stored from some male or the other. We take that out on our sons. And every time we see our son being slightly more aggressive or being more boy, looking like very masculine, it's scary for us because we've only seen unconscious masculinity. So we want to shut it down. We want to make them like our girls. We're like, sit quietly and talk and draw.

29:55Draw, exactly. And write a poetry. Right.

29:58Dr. Shefali:And no harm in that. That's beautiful. But it's not realistic for most. For many boys, they're incapable and then they feel shamed. So let's talk about the fathers. Yes. Before we get to the father, I heard you once say, and I thought that was so true, like when your boy doesn't hug you and kiss you and want to be around you, it's not an insult. It doesn't mean they don't love you. Because I watched that and I was like, okay, good. Because as a mom, every mom loves their boy, right? I mean, and their girl. But like, you know, the relationship between, I always feel, it's obviously memes all over the world because I'm always trying to hug him.

30:36And when you told me that to kind of like back off a little bit, it did make a big difference. Yeah. Because it's not like they feel crowded. They feel crowded.

30:47Dr. Shefali:And they feel incompetent because they don't feel like hugging you. And then they feel bad about it. That's what you said in the stuff that I saw. So you can just like squeeze his shoulder, just touch his hand and go, I got you, my son. Yeah. But you're actually setting him free. Yeah. And you're not making him feel lesser than or ashamed for making you feel bad. Yes. And I remember seeing that and I try to kind of tweak my behavior towards him and not also take it personally. Yeah. Instead of hugging your son, what would be better for his self-esteem is ask his opinion. Ask for directions. Ask him to help you.

31:23Dr. Shefali:And every time I say this to my mothers because they're so competent, they feel insulted. They're like, what, am I an idiot? Why should I ask him for anything? I go, because it's a strategy to make him feel like he's contributing. Yes. Like, let him help you, woman. It's okay. I love that. You know, like, ask him to pick up the bags. Ask him to fix the light bulb. Ask him for directions, even if you have Google Maps. Right. Let him feel like he can direct you and he can lead you because he develops a sense of worth through leadership. And this doesn't mean the girl cannot do the same. It's not reductive.

31:55Dr. Shefali:It's not stratified. But I know what boys respond to. I know what men respond to. Why? Because their brains are developed to seek competency and to seek physical expression. So anything you give him to do that's a challenge, physical, he's going to love it. He will brush his teeth way faster at the age of three. If you make him go outside into the yard and find the toothbrush. Right. You know, and make it a scavenger hunt, he's going to then brush his teeth. Make it a race, make it a competition because they're wired for physical dominance and competence. I love that. They want to know that they are achievers, you know?

32:30Dr. Shefali:And so for fathers, such an important role for their boys. Oh my goodness. So we have to first understand that we need to have compassion for fathers because they were raised mostly by horrifically absent fathers. Right. Right? So they have no template for how to connect. So let's have compassion for fathers, okay? Right. They're confused as heck because they are supposed to be the hunters and they're supposed to be the gatherers now. They're supposed to go out there and, you know, protect and provide, but they're also supposed to have emotional skills. So they are like, who am I supposed to be?

33:08Dr. Shefali:I cannot be everything. Right. Right. I'm trying really hard and I had no model. So let's be compassionate towards the fathers, which most mothers are like, hell no, I'm not going to be compassionate. Now, compassion is also a strategy. Right. Because when you're compassionate, people are more likely to cooperate with you. So what is the point of shaming your husband? He will not cooperate. He will slink away into his man cave and disappear. So if you want him to be part of the team, we need to allow them to feel good about themselves. Not in a pandering sort of way, but in an empowering way. And they need to do the same for you.

33:45Dr. Shefali:I'm not saying that the woman is not equally worthy of the same treatment. Absolutely. But men truly are handicapped. They don't know. Not only do they not know, their brain is not wired for words. Their brain is wired for physicality, for achievement, not for verbal articulation. So they're handicapped. And their cerebral cortex comes online way later than women's and girls, like five, six years later. So their ability to process words with thoughts, that integration happens much later. Like how much later? Like, so if a girl, it's happening by 11, 12, a boy, you're lucky at 45. No, I'm kidding.

34:28Dr. Shefali:Even then I could be. It's not turning on. It's still not happening. You're still waiting. They're still waiting. But I don't mean to. No, many men are growing and evolving now. But no, but I think this is very true. And I think there is a difference between men and women. And it is a strategy. I was going to say the way you were telling me just now about how to handle a son. Yeah. It's very similar. People may or may not like it. It's too bad. I really think that it's how you would handle like a relationship with your girlfriend or with a boyfriend. Yeah, yes. When you're saying like, yeah, like that's what you should.

35:01Like there are strategies to get the reaction you want.

35:04Dr. Shefali:Like I'll give you a very quick one and then we'll go back to what we were talking about. Like my daughter will not go to sleep happy unless every conflict is resolved. Yeah. Now doesn't she sound like you and me? Yeah. Yeah. We're like that. We have to fix it. We have to feel it. We have to tie the bow. We have to come to a place of sisterhood again. So I know that with my daughter. So I go in, I repair immediately. But with a male friend or a son, I wouldn't go in immediately. I would give space. I'd be like, son, I got you, but we can talk tomorrow. And he'll be like, thank you. I'm done with the drama.

35:40Dr. Shefali:I cannot handle it. I need space. You see, completely different strategies. And this doesn't mean one is better or more powerful than the other. they're just how their brain is wired. Yes. And not everybody is stereotypical either, right? People fall within the range. Of course. Within the range. There's two buckets. Yeah, but I always want to keep saying, yes, it's not reductive. Okay, gender is fluid. It can be, you know, you can express yourself in many ways. So let's go back to fathers and sons. Yes. One of the pitfalls that I see between fathers and sons is that because the father's emotional world was so decimated in his growth, in his childhood, in his youth, when he sees it in the sun, because he so punished it in himself, he automatically shuns it in the sun because he sees it as weakness.

36:31Dr. Shefali:He was told so much that his tears, his vulnerability, his shame, his weakness was a limitation, a failure. When he sees his son be quote-unquote soft, He cannot take it. So we need to help this dynamic. We need to help them both because he will unleash so much degradation. But guess what? I see so many women who also cannot handle soft boys because they've internalized the patriarchy. So they've internalized the same thing, that softness is a bad thing. Right. The patriarchy has made women feel so bad about their softness that they look at softness as a bad thing now. Right. So when they see it in their girls, but more in their boys, they will do the same thing that men have done to women.

37:19Dr. Shefali:They will do to their sons. Right. Because also it's what we've learned and what we know. So to unlearn that. Is very heavy. So difficult. It's heavy. When you're old and especially, you know, when you're busy and when you're older and like you're so set in your ways to unwind that. Yes. I had a beautiful father-son come to me for a session. Oh, my goodness. The son brought the father. Really? After a big blow up in the family where father and son almost came to blows like bears. Yeah. Like their manhood was in question. And I taught the father that he was actually so afraid of giving the son power that he was holding all the power for himself.

38:08Dr. Shefali:And one of the things I teach fathers, and it's in this book, is you have to pass the baton to your son. You have to teach your son that your son is greater than you. But you have to be willing a man enough to dethrone yourself because that is what the son needs from the father. Am I good enough? Is the king going to give me the throne and the crown? And I want to be trained. So there's a period that the father needs to mentor the son to so-called take the throne. Yes. Right? And the mother needs to do that with the daughter too. Right. And we all just want to be, I think the kids, children want to have their approval from their parents, right?

38:51Dr. Shefali:Especially a boy to his male role model. To the father. Tell me I'm competent. Tell me you trust me in the storm. Tell me you'll take me to war with you. Tell me I can be your teammate. Men have a different code of what gives them worth. And a father can do so much damage and so much healing. from a few words of, I see you. I trust you. My son has my back. My son has my back. You know, I'm nodding because I see it in real time, what you're saying. And I'm curious how you came to have this, like this more evolved theory, right? Because a lot of things are very much like, you do this and then you do that.

39:38And I think your popularity was in a way, at the beginning, probably a little polarizing, right? Like you were talking about parental hierarchies. Oh my God. So provocative.

39:50Dr. Shefali:If Oprah hadn't been my biggest ambassador, conscious parenting would not have taken flight. Right. Yeah. She saw the beauty of this message because her ego wasn't involved. That's right. She's not a parent, but she can see everybody else's ego. Exactly. And she's like, I see this. And even in her own life with the many daughters that she has through her school, she saw her ego come out, but she mostly sees it through her friends who are mothers. Right. So she was able to call the truth. But we are so afraid to own that we don't know what we're doing. Well, that's the thing. And to own that we just want our kids to be our trophies.

40:31Dr. Shefali:And a reflection on you. Just own it. And I agree with you. That's why it really kind of resonated because it's the truth. If you can take your ego away. Yeah. And like how many times that when, you know, people, oh, my mini me or it's a reflection of what you are. So you, it's like a, like you said, a project, an ambassadorship, an ambassadorship. And it's not even of who we are. It's all the things we could never be. We're terrified of never being that we project onto our children, right? We want them to be the Michael Phelps, the Dalai Lama, the Julia Roberts, the Bill Gates. I mean, not really, but you know, the status, the status, we want them to be everything.

41:13Dr. Shefali:The homemaker, the homebody, the wife, the mother, the gym rat. I mean, what are we expecting? You're right. And so why I'm even bringing that up is because I've noticed in the years what's happened. I've done a few discussions and talks on this about the mental resilience of children and how I feel, my opinion and maybe some others, that we have really, we are raising more of a fragile, like emotion, like a fragile child. Very fragile. You know why? Because it's all external. Exactly. So that's why I really wanted you to talk about this too, because it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

41:53It's getting worse. Way worse. Yes. And with the helicopter parenting and putting kids in like 97 different activities. And like I said, I'm a mother and I feel guilty because if my kid's not in the 12 dancing classes and this and that, I feel like I'm kind of ostracized and like I'm doing something bad towards my children. The pressure we put on each other instead of releasing pressure, instead of saying,

42:21Dr. Shefali:you know what, let's all realize this is all a big money-making racket that we're part of. It's a racket. I call it the parental industrial complex. And the market realized who's the most vulnerable of us all. You know who it is? The parent. Because of our ego. We so want, we will do anything to get our kid a trophy. Anything to post on Facebook that my kid is in an Ivy League, Even if we're bankrupt. I mean, you've seen parents have committed crimes. It's down my street. It's actually not even shocking to me because I see it so much. Because if you go to any of these, a lot of these parties and events, they can't wait to tell you what private school the kids are at and how they're going to get into this and how they're going to do that.

43:09It's not becoming. It is a contest. It is a competition of who has the better, like the smarter kid, the more spectacular kid.

43:19Dr. Shefali:All those wounds that we never healed in ourselves, our own little girl that feels good enough with her cellulite, with her wrinkles, with her messiness, with her imperfections. That mother who has never healed that little girl is not going to figure this out, not going to raise this, is going to now project all of that onto the outside child and manipulate that child. so she can heal. So she's going to use that child to heal this. Yes, exactly. And we do it in the sneakiest of ways. And I don't even think the mother or father or parent, they're even necessarily even conscious of that they're doing it.

43:57No, no, no, they're not.

43:57Dr. Shefali:This is completely unconscious. It's completely unconscious. There's no blame, no shame. This is just the way it is. Let's just accept it. The other day, a parent came to me and said, you know, I'm so worried that if I make these mistakes, You know, I don't know whether it'll be too late. And how will I know I'm making mistakes? So I looked and I said, if you're making mistakes, where did you get to be so delusional? You have been making mistakes. It is all a shit show. Now just accept it. Totally. Now what do I do? Right? Stop trying to pretend that you're in the zone of not yet having made a mistake.

44:33Dr. Shefali:You've been there years ago. What are you talking about? You're not awake. Your children are trying to tell you. I agree. It's not about not making mistakes. So don't preserve your own identity of I'm not going to make a mistake. This is not about not making mistakes. Therefore, you can even tell your child. Because when your child gets upset with you, right? The other day, my daughter said to me, I cannot believe my mother is not saying sorry to me. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. I cannot believe my, she said, Dr. Shefali is not saying sorry to me. And I said, Maya, I'll be saying sorry every minute.

45:05Dr. Shefali:Right, right, right. Like how much sorry? That's right. Like sorry, happy, like it's emblazoned. You want a t-shirt, yeah. Yes. Stop looking for me to say sorry now. I'm just a bloody mess. Deal with me. I'm dealing with you. Right. Especially at 23, you know. Yeah, that's true, but you're honest. After a certain age, this is what I got, my love. Yes. This is it. And I'll say sorry. At what age we do it now? How much sorry do you want me to say? Like, I'll say sorry every day, every minute. Exactly. Sorry is not, that is ego. Of course I'm sorry. Take it as a given, I'm so sorry. Now what do we do?

45:40Dr. Shefali:You have to deal with me as an adult and I have to deal with you. I'm super messy. How are you? Right? Right. I've been saying sorry. But when can we start saying sorry? And when can we stop trying to be perfect? We should be saying sorry all the time. And then by 23, we can say enough. Like now, you know, this is who I am now, you know, and you have to understand that this is not about me anymore. Right. And I am validating the pain. I am telling you I was effed up. I am so deeply wishing, you know, remorseful that I could go back and change everything. I've been there, done that with my daughter.

46:17Dr. Shefali:And I teach parents first do that. Tell them it's regrettable. Tell them you're remorseful. Tell them you wish you could change. validate the child always. And after the age of 21 or 23 or 33, you're allowed to say, it is what it is. Now you have to parent yourself, liberate yourself from waiting for me to heal you because I cannot heal you. I don't have the skills. A hundred percent. You know, and own it with love and beg your child to please stop knocking on your door because this is not where she's going to get the healing. Ultimately, they have to heal themselves. And all of us will have to heal ourselves.

46:59Dr. Shefali:I did it with my mom, as lovely as my mother is. And my daughter, even though she's Dr. Shevali's daughter, has a hell of a lot of healing for herself to do. Because I'm not here to be perfect. I'm here to show up as best I can. I have nothing else to say. It's so true. I wish we can tell that to our children earlier in life, that we're not perfect. You're not too early because they're like, okay, then they already know we're not perfect, but we need to be as present and validating for the early years. And then we can let go, you know, so now my daughter's 23. So now I let go. Right. And she's terrified of me letting go because she's scared to be an adult, but I have to let go.

47:41Dr. Shefali:So at this age, I have to let go.

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49:34Can you tell us or can you talk a little bit about co-parenting and divorce? Yes, yes.

49:38Dr. Shefali:Let's talk about when two parents don't see eye to eye. Yes, because that's what I'm saying. When one parent's undermining the other parent and they're not together anymore, because I think that there could be a lot of friction in two different households. Yes, it's very hard. It's very hard. First and foremost, I want everyone listening to understand that it is more common than not that the parents are not on the same page. I'm glad that you said that. I was listening to a podcast that you did, I don't know how long ago, and I was like, oh my gosh, the lady went to Costa Rica with the husband and the wife and the kid, and I'm like, they're all kumbaya-ing together.

50:17I'm like, wow, this sounds amazing.

50:18Dr. Shefali:Is that really how it is? No, it is, I would say, less than 2%. Less than 2%, okay. Most often, both of them are caught in a crossfire. And typically the mother is reading my books and trying to become conscious and the father in a typical home, gender stereotyped home, the father is stuck in tradition. One is stuck in something conservative and old school. And the mother is trying to change and the father thinks she's too gentle and she's, oh my goodness. It's a whole thing. So it's a whole thing. But here's my advice. Never wait for your partner for you to become a conscious parent. One conscious parent can change the world.

50:59You have enough power in you to make a difference in your child's life,

51:04Dr. Shefali:even if your partner is deliberately sabotaging you. But it'll take a lot of work. It's very hard to do, but you can do it. I want to empower parents to not believe that they need to be in a dyad or they need to be in a village or they need to be with a lot of money in order to be a conscious parent because that's a cop-out. That's an excuse. You can be a conscious parent on your own. You just have to first undo a lot of the shit that the other one put and then rebuild. So if in a divorce situation, if the child comes home from the other parent, typically a mess because the other parent is chaotic.

51:39Dr. Shefali:The other parent has allowed them to be eating candy and on their video games. The kid is coming home neglected and disheveled. The first thing you need to do is understand now that kid is going to take out all their anger, all their upsetness and unmet needs on you, right? And typically the mother comes to me and says, oh my God, my kids are coming home like they hate me. I go, no, they don't hate you. They're finally able to release all that stress from that household, all their unmet needs, and they're angry with you that you were not there because you weren't there to protect them. So first you have to be the sponge and just absorb all the negativity, like you're actually taking out all the toxins.

52:20Dr. Shefali:So the first two days is just that. I see it over and over and over. And then you have to reparent and bond and connect. It's very difficult. It's very difficult. That's why think a million years before you get married to anyone and think another million before you have a child with them. 100%. It is the hardest thing. You can get married, but try not to have children with that person until you have tested them, until you have background checked them. You have checked them with every sort of emergency situation because who that parent will be will, I mean, I cannot even tell you, catastrophically impact the rest of your life because your children never leave.

52:58Dr. Shefali:You can never return your children. So you will forever be bonded to this human being. Oh yeah. Like you can't divorce your children. You can never divorce your children. And then you are stuck with that parent. Forever. Yeah. So like you said, it's more common than not. I think it's now at 65 % divorce rate. It's higher. 65 % divorce, it's 85 who want to. Yeah. Oh, my. 95. 95 who want to. We're just terrified. Which is unbelievably terrifying. Because the whole setup is flawed. We shouldn't be raising children with one other crazy person. We should be raising children in a village of crazy people.

53:33Dr. Shefali:A hundred percent. So we can have different flavors of crazy and help. And we need help. We need to be in a village. This whole setup is a disaster. Yeah. And then you have the woman who's now living longer than before. So now she's got full on menopause with a man who's living longer than before. So he wants to keep having sex. She can't have sex. Now he's having an affair. Now she doesn't give a shit. I mean, this is in every house. Okay. So unless she's on testosterone and then she wants to punch the guy, but she is horny. So he has to decide, okay, do I want the vagina or do I want the punch?

54:07Dr. Shefali:It's very confusing because we're not supposed to be even living this long. I know. It's crazy. It's crazy. We were supposed to be dead at 50. Yes. And then you hear all these things like, oh, well, as long as the ecosystem and the parenting structure between the two parents are very, they get along well. It's very hard. It is very hard. And this is my whole point, right? Theory is one thing, right? Practicality is very, very different. And that's why I don't just write books and I don't just teach. I see clients every single week. I have like a backup of people now because I'm traveling who are waiting to be seen.

54:40Dr. Shefali:I was going to ask you about that. I see people every single week. I want to see people every week. So you really do are, you're still a practicing. Because I'm doing the work. Yes. I love you. I really do. Because I cannot tell you how many people sit here. Yeah, and they're just talking heads. And they just yappity yappity yappity. But they're not teaching anybody. Not a damn thing. They don't see any patients. They're not doing anything in real time. They did maybe 30 years ago, or they maybe got, they graduated and they went right into the media stuff. But they're not in the weeds anymore.

55:08Yeah. And so you're actually still doing it.

55:10Dr. Shefali:Oh my goodness. Yes. I will never stop helping people in real time because I want to not only have a finger on the cultural pulse of what's happening, but I have to practice what I preach. I have to really see if it works with people. And see how things are, how time is changing. How time is changing, what couples are facing, what children are facing. I love it. I love it. And then I have a coaching institute where I coach people to become coaches and do the work I do, but also a conscious parenting institute where you can come for five months. And at the end of those five months, I will train you to be a conscious parent.

55:47I will train you how to do this. So you can train a parent or do they have to be a therapist as well?

55:52Dr. Shefali:No, they can be completely somebody off the street who wants to heal their own childhood. They can come to me in the institute. If they want to be a coach like me, they can come and I will train you. or if they want to truly go to school to become a conscious parent, which you and I never did. We never went to school to become a conscious parent. No. Yeah, we just think we're going to wing it because we love our children. Right. And love is not enough. Love is nothing. Love doesn't translate to an action, to a presence, to our attention. Yes, and to like a strategy that would actually get the results that you're looking for.

56:26Dr. Shefali:And you cannot even read about the strategy. So in my institute, I train them to practice over and over. And every week I do live coaching. So they see me doing the coaching in real time to practice the skills. With real people? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great idea. Because they watch me. In my entire PhD and three masters, I never saw one professor actually do it. Actually do the work. Ever. Ever. Not one. They talked about it. Right. Yeah, so you talk about being a good parent versus actually showing someone how to be a good parent. Right. So we role-play children. We role-play parents. We role-play clients.

57:04So people get a feel of how to integrate it in your body. That is incredible. So anybody listening who has a child or wants to have like that.

57:13Dr. Shefali:And wants to be a conscious parent, they should join my institute 100%. That's amazing. Yeah. Okay, I think I need to wrap this because you have to go to your next thing. Yes. Okay, so Dr. Shefali's, you're so cute. God, I like you so much. She's so likable, too. Dr. Shefali's books are called Raising Conscious Sons and Raising Conscious Daughters. And I'm telling you, these are a must. I'm telling you, if you have a girl, a boy, one child, two children, 10 children, it's extremely helpful. These are actionable things, tools in your toolbox to make you a better parent, maybe just an elevated parent.

57:52Dr. Shefali:But I will tell you, there are chapters in each on identity. So if you are experiencing a child who's going through identity confusion, gender fluidity, they're exploring whether they're a boy or a girl, I have tools for you as well. That's really important because it's very common now too. So thank you. Dr. Shefali, you are incredible. No, you are. Thank you so much. No, I loved having you. Will you come back again? Of course. I have to come back. I hope so because I try to make it as short and sweet as possible because of your schedule. but I have like, I didn't even get to my question, but I didn't even open my book to get to my questions because I actually had a whole list.

58:32You did great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was so wonderful to have you. Guys, follow Dr. Shefali, buy her books and her other previous books. You will not be disappointed. See you soon.