Alia Shawkat

0:00Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athletic-ish stuff, like fishing gear for chilling by the creek. Nice cast. Fitness apparel to push for higher reps. You got this! And golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one. Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. With unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building.

0:48Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership. terms apply learn more at go.amex slash graphite i'll always be proud of being recognized as as maybe you know like i love it i i don't bat an eye i think when i was a little younger and still feeling like a little bitter sometimes i'd be like oh yeah that you know but um but no it doesn't bother me i mean if they recognize me for a show that i was 15 on that means my plastic surgery is working really well prepare your ears humans happy sad confused begins now Hey, guys, it's Josh.

1:29Welcome to another edition of Happy Say I Confused. Today on the pod, Alia Shawkat, first-time guest on Happy Say I Confused, talking Search Party, Arrested Development, and her new film, Atropia. Hey, guys, thanks as always for joining me on Happy Say I Confused, for enjoying us on YouTube or Spotify or however you're enjoying this podcast. I appreciate all of you guys. So thrilled that we have Alia on the pod for the very first time. I actually just spoke to Will Arnett yesterday. That is coming up on the pod soon. So I feel like I'm running through. Bateman was on recently. All the Arrested Development actors.

2:04This one's a really fun, interesting conversation with a very talented, smart actor in Alia. Other things to mention really quickly. Not much. I'll just say, as always, check out our Patreon for early access and discount codes and all the fun stuff. Patreon.com slash happy. Say I confused. That is your place to support the podcast and help us make more of what we do over here. um not much more preamble i want to say other than uh alia is a woman of many talents a producer an artist and of course an actor since she was just a kid she was 14 years old when she was cast on arrested and already been doing it for a bit and the fact that like forget like the folks like will and bateman that were in their mid-30s talk about people like michael cera and alia they that they found at that young age that could keep up more than keep up with those talented actors it's just kind of a miracle and to see the career that she's had since then working with great filmmakers and so prominent on the indie film scene um you know an actor that that whenever they show up you know you're in good hands is alia shawkat so uh i know you're going to enjoy this episode always great to add a first-time guest to the mix on happy sad confused uh without any further ado here's me and alia we're doing this oh yeah shawkat you're on the podcast welcome it's happening do you feel it i feel it i'm gonna move my purse from the background um no we want to stare at the purse yeah um how how how how goes it you're you're in the middle of do i have this right did you have a big fancy q a premiere last night are you still standing yeah it was uh two nights ago we had the fancy premiere we took photos on a carpet outside and then yeah we shared the movie with a lot of friends and strangers and then we had a really cool party and yeah i drank alcohol it was fun and you're still you're still coherent i'm a little i feel like i'm a little fried this season i'm gonna be honest it's the season of it's yeah it's the it's you know we're in that like the q and the a's and all the stuff and i feel like my brain shut off two days ago so i promise i'm gonna give like one last burst for you because you deserve it great thank you so much And if you don't, if I don't get a burst, you know, a little spark's okay too.

4:22No, no. You know, you deserve everything. I also feel happy that when I was looking up what you were up to this week, a mystery was solved because when I was watching, they sent me a screener for Atropia. And Aubrey's name was like emblazoned right in the middle of the screen, Aubrey Plaza. And then I saw that she did your Q &A. So I'm like, ah, I got Aubrey's screener. Oh, you did? I did. oh you got hers okay well i'll tell her then she must have gotten yours exactly exactly uh how did she do as a as a questioner she did great she's really good at that kind of stuff she she's a friend and it was really nice for her to come do it and she's kind of rolled up and she's like i love the movie but what do i ask and i was like you'll be fine and it was fine the audience is really cool and i like a good q a yeah you know they're kind of fun especially the relaxed ones The ones after premieres are, I feel like, not as good because everyone's, like, a little tired and edgy, like, ready to get a snack, you know?

5:20Right. But it's just, like, a regular Wednesday, like, a casual Q &A after a movie. It's more fun. And then you're like, oh, my God, they're here? Right. It feels cooler. So you've got a lot going on, I have to say. So we have a Tropy to talk about. We also can officially say that you're going to be hitting the stage here in New York for the first time. I'm very excited for this. I'm going to come on out to support. this is correct me if I'm wrong this is the debut this is the official theatrical debut yeah it is I've done um I did a performance piece at BAM um in 2019 but um it was not no yeah this is my very first like theater theater like real theater have you been thinking about this for a while like I mean you strike me as like a confident performer I feel like you don't get rattled or maybe you're masking it really well it changes daily you know okay um when I moved to New York when I was 18 and I was like I'm gonna do theater like a real actor right and I never got any roles because I think I didn't articulate very well and my presence was just a little more like for tv and movies I had done it since I was a kid so I wasn't as um that's what I tell myself you know um but so I was auditioning for a lot of theater nothing happened and then I got more jobs in LA and it eventually took me back to LA doing film and then I did more TV in New York but anyways and then I just never never happened again and then as you get you know it was more time passes and you get older too it's like your time you want to make sure you're spending it the way you want to and it's a big commitment to do a play so it has to be a piece you really respond to and want to do every night you know um but I've always wanted to do theater and then this piece you got older by Claire Barron and then Annie Kaufman is directing it it was just like kind of perfect and i really responded to the material and i'm terrified um but i feel like it's a good sign so i'm just gonna go forward do you generally feel are you like i feel like every actor feels the night before a shoot they're like why did they hire me this is the horrible decision yeah yeah i remember i did um i did like a small part in this film ruby sparks um and i was in this scene with paul dano and i i had one of those you know i was only working a couple days on it and And I kind of, my confidence was at a low, but I, and I kind of said that to him.

7:38I was like, cause I was nervous, you know? And I was like, you were like wondering, we were like, are you any good? And like, what should I be doing this? And he was like, yeah, all the time. And it made me feel so much better. Cause I was like, if Paul Dano's saying this, then like, I'll be okay. You know? So. Yeah. I always, I always say, and people that listen or watch the podcast are sick of me saying it, but it always makes me happy and others actors happy to hear that when Gary Oldman was on the podcast, He always talked about how he still feels like he's screwing it up half the time. And Paul Dano, Quentin Tarantino, his least favorite actor, no less.

8:14I got to say, I'm a bit of a Luddite. I'm like, I didn't catch up, but I don't know how I saw that. And what happened? I mean, we don't need to hash it out. He just insulted Paul Dano. Like, Jesus, Quentin, take a break. I know. I mean, love Quentin's work. Sometimes he's a little too free with his unvarnished opinions. Like not everything needs to be said out loud. If he's not for you, it's okay. He's for the rest of us. Yeah, I'm not good. I also was going... Yeah, definitely, definitely.

8:48So some of you may think what you see and hear on the podcast is the total me. The truth is I get super stressed like everybody else. Work challenges, the health of a loved one. It can all feel pretty overwhelming. That's why I'm so happy Rula is an ongoing sponsor for Happy, Sad, Confused. It's one thing to find a therapist you like, but then you learn the problem of actually making sure that they take your insurance. Then there are all those online therapy platforms, right? But the truth is that many of them don't work with insurance. And then you're looking at huge out-of-pocket costs. So guess what?

9:20Now you can add money stress to the rest of your problems, not with Rula. Their average copay is just$15 per session. And that's because they partner with over 100 insurance plans. And it's real therapy from licensed professionals. This should be how insurance works after all, right? You use your insurance benefits to maintain your physical health. Why shouldn't you do the same for your mental health? And Rula knows that in order to provide you with the best care, they have to consider your goals and preferences and backgrounds so that you can get a curated list of licensed in-network therapists who are actually aligned with what you need.

9:54Because finding the right therapist can make all the difference. No wait lists. Appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. And you're not on your own, guys. Rula sticks with you throughout the journey. They check in to make sure that your care is helping you as you move forward. So go to Rula.com slash happy to get started today. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash happy for quality therapy that's covered by insurance. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula.com slash happy to get started. And after you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them.

10:28Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's Rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Well, it's August, guys, so it kind of feels like the perfect time for a reset right before the fall comes. And a fun place for me to reset is with my closet. And Quince makes it easy and affordable. That's why I'm thrilled they are a sponsor of Happy Sad Confused. Quince specializes in those everyday staples that you get a ton of use out of. What I love about them, though, is that they value quality and style. All of their pieces are versatile and timeless.

11:01You can seamlessly use them at work and then for a night out just hanging with friends and family. Quince makes it easy to upgrade your wardrobe. I'm talking about premium denim tailored chinos with the perfect kind of fit and fabric you'd expect, frankly, from a luxury designer brand. But with Quince, they're just$60. In fact, everything at Quince is priced 50 % to 80 % less than similar brands. They do that by working with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen. So no brand markups here, just high quality. I have so many pieces from Quince that I use all the time, frankly. Sweaters, pants.

11:32I have a linen jacket that's become my go-to the last few months. The fit, the material, it's honestly perfect. Like I said, these are just everyday clothes that you're actually going to get a ton of use out of. Plus, Quince has become my go-to for everything from hotel-quality bedding and bath essentials to premium cookware and travel must-haves. So upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash happysad. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns now available in Canada and the UK, too. That's quince.com slash happysad.

12:12I was going down the YouTube rabbit hole this morning just to see what I found also. And what the hell was the Gucci film from earlier this year? I thought you were getting some way back. That's new. No, this is super new. This is super new. Yeah. What the hell was it? I'm not sure. Was this like a tax write-off for Gucci? Like, get me every actor on the planet? Get the best. It was freaking Spike, you know what I mean? And Helena. So we were like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and so and Helena I'm like oh my god I'm gonna get her last name wrong Rain Ryan yeah yeah Ryan so they directed it together and Spike's an old friend of mine and he texted me and was like do you want to do this Gucci short film and I was like am I gonna get paid and that remains to be seen but no yeah I was like I would love to work with him I've known him for so long he was actually in the first movie i ever did three kings this david l russell movie of course yes that's crazy we met on that i was nine we weren't necessarily friends but he was always really nice and then we like reconnected in new york years later and he's just always been a really good friend and i'm such a fan of his work but i never and i did like some weird little like plays we did for opening ceremony like we always do creative things together but i'd never been on camera with him since um that's amazing yeah and so an opportunity to work with him to direct i was like hell yeah it was just like a great group of people it is it's a yeah so it's a scene in a while it's an old friend of mine so yeah it's also i mean you say a short film it's like 35 minutes long and it's it's to me more to me more ed harris it's like kiki like everybody it's kind of just so many people and we shot it really fast i mean we shot in like five days in la and then you know we went to milan um because it was like in replacement of a fashion show so they like showed the short in a theater they built it was crazy it was you know very indulgent as fashion can be but also i'm a fan of demna who's the designer um but it was kind of surreal i think they were all like it was like a mock you know like this is what movies are like you know and we're like what like usually movie premieres are like all the people you worked with you know who worked on it and this yeah we were like a bunch of korean pop stars but um it was cool it was really cool i was like really happy to be a part of it i never really looked so fabulous in projects usually i'm like bleeding from the nose and trying to survive something um yeah i mean i i mean i would imagine it's it's a relatively easy answer when someone like spike texts you um and yeah are you are you generally down like when a friend is like hey you want to want to want to try something out just for a couple days or is that like what's your mindset that i'd say i definitely am more than most i mean obviously if i don't if it's something i really don't like um i you know i don't do it but um i really i kind of put it out in the universe that i want to work with friends and that's really happened in tenfold like the last several projects i've done or even more i mean they're all with people i'm friends with either you know and friends before usually and then they're making things or you know we try to make things together so i'm a big fan of that i'm i'm i'm really lucky because i i think that doesn't happen very often but to me it seems so normal i've just like i have been around a while so and i'm sociable so i know a lot of people and um and then i think kind of you know not everybody again but like for me and people i know it's just that kind of thing like you want to be with people you like yeah and have a similar creative sense and dialogue and so it just feels like a shorthand and yeah.

15:52And you feel safe with them. You're not, you know, you're not going to be screwed in the edit. And they're also pretty talented. Generally, you've surrounded yourself with very talented folks. Yeah, you don't have to be talented. Otherwise, I can't be your friend. That's the prerequisite. Yeah, yeah. If you're dull and have no wit or anything. Yeah, no, move on. Well, okay. So that segues well into this one because Haley is a friend, I would imagine. You're the writer, director, collaborator on Etropia. I really enjoyed this. I hadn't seen it when it was at Sundance. um i don't even know what the comp is for something like this there is no comp maybe like wag the dog shades way back when i don't even mash sure hayley has a great tagline where she said it's it's the mash for the 9-11 generation oh my gosh yeah so so what is what is the environment like right now to get something like this actually made is this is this like a tough slogged in 2024 2025 to actually get this made and theatrically released in any way it's not easy that's for sure um i will say it was easier to get it made than it is to get it out you know what i mean to get it seen uh distributed you know protocol came on board thank god and has been doing a really great job putting it out there but it's like i think people were scared of it i mean we won sundance and we still didn't get bought for so long and it wasn't like a fancy you know what i mean it just like wasn't yeah and not to put down any other movies because i support all films but um except if it's racist sort of but i i was like so surprised you know and then i wasn't at the same time because we are entering an era where also the the dei days are over you know what i mean it's kind of like i think it's working against us and it's very critical of the the american government whether or not we're on the radar of the fucking government or not i'm not sure but i think people are going i don't think this is a story that is going to have broad appeal so if we don't have a chance to get middle america to see it which i don't agree with because i actually think a lot of people who are in the this war in the iraq war would be drawn to it anyone in the military would be drawn to it because it's a comedy it's a satire so it's like we're talking about stuff but it doesn't have this kind of like this is right and this is wrong you know like my character isn't very likable and more morally speaking she isn't always correct so i think what i love about the movie too is that it is this it's not telling you what's right politically or not and yet it still lands on the right side if that makes sense totally because it's being made by the right kind of people and and it's still like a romance at the heart so yeah you and calum legit chemistry that guy swoon worthy what a guy okay so so so so how did this one develop i know there's a there's a short film you're obviously tight with hailey and and she said that she essentially wanted to write something playing to your strengths like what you what you were looking for i mean that's that's a gift for any actor to work with someone that says like hey what do you want actually want to do and then actually execute it as a whole other thing and to get it done is remarkable.

18:56So give me a sense of what that process was like and what you did want to, what you wanted to play. Yeah. So we did do this short in 2018, 19, which is crazy. Pre-COVID, it's like mind warped. But so we did the short for the Mimu Tales and it turned out really great. And the main difference was I wasn't pregnant and there was no romance. So the story was about this character, this actress, and the world was all there. And then, you know, all these years passed and Hayley and I were kind of having a moment of, you know, creative frustration. We each had projects that weren't really happening and just kind of venting.

19:31And we had a moment where we were like, we have this special idea that nobody else could make, you know, like I'm so right for the character. She knows this world better than ever. And it's just something that we were so proud of always. And she tells the story better because she does the accent. But when we were at Venice when we premiered the short Lynn Ramsey told her she like held up a fork and she's like if you don't make this some man's gonna come and take it away from you wow there's a motivator yeah it has usually a little more but um so you know I think that kind of always rang in our head too and we just kind of had this like yeah like what the fuck are we waiting on like you know this is so good we're trying to look for something you know let's just go for it and then also So Haley's quite organized and, you know, follows through.

20:20So I thought we were just kind of having like a talk. And I was like, no, that was fun. But anyways, back to being bitter about all the jobs I can't get. And then within a couple of months, she had written a draft, you know, and she's like Luca Guadagnino, who's a friend of hers, an old friend of hers, was like the first reader and was going to produce it. And it just kind of all came together quite quickly. I mean, for an independent film, we shot within the year she wrote it, which is really, I mean, not unheard of, but it's like very, it's rare. you know? And she was able to get the money just like, you know, it was, it was hard and up until the last minute, but she just never gave up.

20:53And then before, you know, we started shooting, I was like, so I'm, and she's like, you're pregnant. I can't, and I knew it. And I was like, fuck, sorry. And I was like, I've never had sex before. And I don't know what happened. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. Maybe miracle. But so I got pregnant and then that just added this element of like you know but you know to answer your other question when she asked me what what have you what genre have you never done before she started writing and i said i've never i don't feel like i've ever done a proper romance right so she was like okay romance this but and then so she was writing it all you know had written a draft and then and then i got pregnant and we were kind of like we shoot and pretend i'm not depends how quickly we get the money can we make it and then it was like no i was i'm i was gonna be pretty pregnant by the time we shot and And so she added it in there.

21:41And now, if you didn't know, like it really, I think it really grounds the story and the character and like her drive and her obliviousness to like real life situations that are literally happening to her physicality. So it's quite poetic, you know, and I can't imagine it without it. How did dad get involved? So dad's in the film. I didn't realize this till after the fact. Yeah, he's a mayor. Weirdly enough, he was also in Three Kings. That's the only other movie he's done. He was an advisor. I just like keep talking about fucking three kings but um yeah my you know my dad and Haley are friends you know I mean through me but like they know each other and she told me she's like I feel like your dad would be perfect for the part you know it's a paternal character to mine um someone who kind of like just has this this warmth about him and is like a boss you know he's kind of the guy who like tells everyone what to do and just has this like relaxed you know temperament and and i was like yeah he's perfect for it you know and he's a rocky and so he was like so excited to be a part of it and everyone i think it's kind of like everyone's like favorite performance in the movie like he's so good in it i love it so when you when you look at your yourself and look at your parents what do you see you got from mom what did you get from dad oh boy in a physical or just whatever you want however you want to take it um no well my father's like very he doesn't express a lot of emotion but he's very grounded and strong and isn't scared to do anything you know he came over here when he was young built a whole very successful life for himself um so i like to think i got that kind of perseverance and just kind of like don't give up just keep trying um and like kind of focus from him and then my mom is very emotional and very expressive and obsessed with movies and knows every movie star from the 1920s to you know mainly earlier and nowadays maybe not as much but she's just like her father was an actor who was quite successful in the 50s 60s paul burke and so she comes from this like honoring of artists and filmmakers you know she holds it to the highest regard and but for the real art not for the like celebrity of it so I kind of feel like I got her like obsession of like you know this is important right we love making movies you know there's a lot of bullshit with it but this is important I got from her and just being like that being an artist is a something you can be you know you meet a lot of people who they come from families that are an artist and don't they're like you're an actor you know and i never had that it was always very like you can do this and you know this could be your life are there are there films and tv shows that resonate with them that they are particularly drawn to that you you've done in your career what have they responded to thing that things that i've been in yeah that they yeah um you know they're a little biased they like most of the stuff i do but um i think they really like search party yeah um and they like the old man because they like seeing me work with those actors and like playing serious i normally don't i always enjoy comedy so i think they like that um but but yeah i gotta say that they're my biggest fans they're really cool my dad doesn't watch like duck butter you know he like didn't see that one but uh having sex in it but yeah so besides that he doesn't like to watch the sex stuff it's fair it's fair yeah beware the opposite he really no you know what he really likes?

25:14No.

25:44Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Get business done with the new American Express Graphite Business Cash Unlimited card. With unlimited 2 % cash back on all eligible purchases, unlimited 5 % cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel Online, and a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business, you'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of$1 ,500 cash back after you spend$50 ,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership.

26:19Terms apply. Learn more at go.amex.com.

26:25You've said before that you kind of had like a weird confidence as a kid. Is that fair to say that like you like – how young are we talking? Is this when you start to perform or just like always like from the ground zero? Did you always have a bit of a, I don't know, swagger as a kid or what? Yeah, I don't know. I'm like, did I say that? I feel like I remember saying that. I do remember I started acting when I was nine and I wanted to be an actor when I was seven. So when I was seven, I started asking my parents, I was like, I want to be on TV. And they were kind of like, OK, kid, like, you know, and I did like some modeling and stuff and it just like wasn't what I wanted.

27:00I was like, no, no, I really want to like audition. I want to be on TV. and I just do remember being a lot more like you know I didn't have life's damages to make me question myself I was very clear I was just like this is it I can do this and I want to do it and my parents were very not stage parents they were just like they supported me but we always went home and I didn't live in LA and I wasn't in the scene at all and also it was very much like if my grades dropped I couldn't do it anymore so it was kind of like a side thing you know It's like an extracurricular activity. But it started to just become a bigger, bigger part of my life when I started doing TV shows because I'd be gone for a long time.

27:40Right. But, yeah, I would say my confidence was just like, you know, nowadays it's hard to know what you want always. It's not as decisive. You know, you're like, but what about this? You like weigh lots of things as you get older and how people feel. And when you're young, at least when I was young, I didn't worry about how anybody else felt about it. Well, and there's also, I would imagine the aspect of, especially when we're kids, any kind of validation from an adult saying you have value, you're important in this adult world is very meaningful. all totally yeah i mean i remember hearing like that it's important because now i have a kid and he's still small but like that it's important for kids to have um duties as a young age you know to be like like when kids used to like give out the newspaper on their bikes because they were like they're not going to get the newspaper if i don't go and it feels really good to be like they need me and i remember feeling that on set you know you're like 10 11 12 13 years old and people are like talking to you fully like an adult you know sometimes not in the best way but usually just like confidently being like you know how to do that can you make sure you pick that up on your way out and don't forget to blah blah blah and you're like got it you know like you just feel like oh i'm really part of this and um and that does yeah that does build a good self-esteem i guess i didn't expect three kings to come up so much in this conversation but that was your was your first film it's i mean it is a notable film so was that in through through dad or were you already like looking trying to get roles at that point like give me a sense of what that experience was yeah yeah it was my first week of auditioning i um auditioned for a barbie commercial which i got a barbie and a porsche hey congrats and then thank you uh it's hard to find you can't find it online i think they've buried it along with lots of my things but um yeah i did that and then like within the first week i got this audition because there's not a lot of people who were of that age and iraqi you know and so it's just like kind of when looking back on it it was kind of like god given timing you know what i mean that like i just started acting and there was this role for an iraqi child right my age you know um so no i auditioned for it and it was one of those things that's another that's the kind of downside of the kid acting thing is the attention of the adults is what you're kind of vying for you know that's why actors they're like oh i did because I wanted to be loved but it's like I remember like you do a good audition and then if they come out to talk to your parents you know that's a good sign you know they're like oh Tony yeah your daughter's amazing and I'm just like like just you know being proud like I did it and I just had to like cry pretty much on cue was the audition but um it was kind of an intense audition actually I remember like they're like we're just gonna say some things and you just react and I was like okay and the things they were saying were really intense because it was like about war and my mother gets killed and um so they were just like saying all these things and i just remember entering some like crazy zone like it was also easier when i was younger to like access that emotional place but um but yeah so i got it and then because my father is from baghdad and because he's iraqi he he became an advisor on the set helping people with how to say things appropriately and just like cultural things and then david l russell kind of took him under his wing and then gave him a part and um the rest is crazy okay so um arrested is it comes down the pike a little bit but before then you work with your buddy may whitman on a show called state of grace right so that's where the i assume that that friendship began on state of grace which by the way i haven't seen but again if you just look on imdb the photos of you two together are so disgustingly adorable it's it's it's intense so yeah yeah be prepared um yeah i mean i always say it's a wonder years for girls you know and and francis mcdormand was my daniel stern which is like unbelievable yeah i mean it doesn't get any better and i play a jewish girl who moves to the south and and befriends this like you know blonde wealthy girl and i come from this kind of like neurotic um hard-working jewish family you know with this amazing cast like dina manoff and michael mentel um it was just a really amazingly well-written show i mean we were we won like critic like critics awards for writing and it was like a kid show you know i mean it was really well written but the thing that's so sad about it now is that because it had a lot of famous 60s music in it like it had like that's what happened in wonder years same exact thing yeah that's what happened yeah they couldn't get the right so the licensing got fucked so we can't even get it on you know disney or whatever because it was that abc family so but i get a lot of girls who are my age you know women now or come up to me and they're like, I used to watch Data Grace, you know, and I really wish and hope in some world soon that it could go, it could be seen again on streaming because it's such a good show.

32:26It's so well written. And it's just like, just a beautiful kid show, you know, but like for adults too, it's just like, I mean, there's an episode where my father's obsessed with Leonard Bernstein, you know, and I go see him perform and, you know, it's like, it's very well, it's very well done. I mean, so much of an actor's life, as you well know, is sort of luck meeting opportunity right and and especially for somebody like early on to be defined by like good experiences like that sounds like that's a great experience and obviously arrested comes when you're i don't know you're 13 14 something like that 14 when i did the pilot yeah i mean insane it just like the best written pilot i still vividly remember watching that pilot and being like where did this come from who is mitch hurwitz who are these people um Yeah.

33:12Did it even strike you at 14? Like, the writing is actually really fucking smart. This is different. You know, I'd like to think that I knew, but I, yeah, looking back, I was like, I was incredibly lucky. I mean, my mother, again, who was like, she was kind of my, like, you know, without being my manager, my manager at the time, meaning she would obviously read everything. Sure. um four and she had amazing taste and i still have her read things that i'm gonna do but she's like this is you know the state of grace and and then when she got that she's like this is insane quality you know what i mean she was like this is the next level and so i remember her saying that you know like afterwards being like this is a really this would be really special kind of thing and also as a kid what i remember mainly is just being like enjoying doing the scenes you know like I mean, in the pilot episode, I'm like messing with my cousin, you know, my, I'm like, that's what makes it funny.

34:05Like, it was just such a good line. Like, so I don't think I was like, oh, this is good. I've read a lot of crap in my years. You know, it's like I had smoking a cigar. Yeah, exactly. I was still like doing soccer and like, I wasn't as aware, but I will say, you know, not to flatter myself or whatever. I feel very lucky that like the projects I was drawn to, the ones that were drawn to me that hired me were just like really amazing quality, really amazing people. like talented and kind and so i i feel really lucky that that just kind of that that happened you know what i mean because like that really formed who i became as an artist for sure well it formed also all these people that were well into their career i literally arnett just did the podcast yesterday i made a couple weeks ago like these these guys their careers are only where they are and they'll openly say this because of arrested coming to them i mean you think about the positions that they were at in their careers at that time which is crazy because they're my age now a little even younger you know they were in their early 30s when they did that show which is so crazy to think about and yeah now the insane careers that they have because of it it's um it's really and me and michael talk about that a lot michael's there like the perspective shift of being like yes we're imagine if we got a show now right you know that we were like that was going to kind of change our lives or that was you know it's just so weird and then you're hanging out with like two 15 year olds well it must have you mentioned michael i must have been like so valuable there's my dog trying to get on camera um she's adorable um but i mean having michael there must have saved you because i mean if that's it you know i know those guys to a degree and i don't know if like they're the most like nurturing human beings they're like you know they're they're great they weren't bad guys no they're horrible no they weren't they weren't bad guys but there wasn't like but no me and michael were in a world to ourselves i mean literally we had to do school so we had homeschooling not homeschooling but we had like a a room to do school on set you know but i mean michael's still one of my best friends he became my best friend right away um we just like hit it off right away and we were both like not from la so our moms became great friends and we literally shoot go to cheesecake factory every night and um maybe go see a movie if we were lucky and then go home and see each other and do it all over again you know so it's like we we had such a bonding time and and also because we were being encouraged and we're making great art you know whether we weren't we weren't necessarily focusing on it we never used to like talk about the scenes together we would just be like talking around and literally trying to make each other laugh all day but i think it's because we were obviously doing you know this at a you know a really high level with all these amazing we were obsessed with david cross and mr show and like you know we were just like he was like our you know god we like looked up to him and if we can make him laugh that was like the biggest thing i was like did you see i'm gonna give it a lot today you know it was like we couldn't and you know i gotta say as the only girl sometimes they like they would like tease michael and let him in the group a little bit more than me right you know because they were like hi like they wanted to be nice and sometimes i was like i'm funny too you know but um but no it was like i mean me and michael talk about it too or we're just like reading those scripts and you know you have to do like table reads it was very old-fashioned back then for the network yeah And Mitch was like, really amp it up.

37:16So we sell the jokes because we need money for the next episodes, you know? And so we would like do these table reads every week, which was really fun, but it feels so old Hollywood now compared to how things are made. But I remember not understanding jokes sometimes as they were coming out of my mouth. You know, and a lot of the jokes are like, I'm sitting on his lap and it's because it's bumpy, you know? So there's these like sexual innuendos that are going a little over my head, but I'm also understanding in real time. And so we just had to grow up so fast our like comedy timing just was like you know we had to keep up and then also like improvising i remember one time i improvised and i was so nervous because the writing's so good and there wasn't a lot of improvising but people would add on little jokes here and there but again i'm like 15 insecure about my like so many things but and i there's this joke where i come out i have a paper and it's an a minus and the line was just supposed to be like i gotta or no it was like a i'm gonna get it wrong now i think it was like i was like it's like a c minus it was a c minus because she's she's not book smart maybe and uh i was like i'm gonna say c minus m-i-n-e-s because you spell it with a u and i thought i was like okay i'm gonna do it i was like so nervous and then i did it i do remember mitch being like that's funny you could keep doing that you know and i was like yes like i did it um but no it was very formative very positive those years were like really a very positive time for me yeah it was good i'm sure in in the ensuing years like you've gone through all the phases right of like loving it and accepting it and at times being like i could use a day or two without somebody referencing arrested when i go to starbucks is that fair to say everyday thing but it is that thing where there was a period of time in my life where it felt like an albatross in the sense of yeah i do other stuff too you know When I was doing Search Party, which has gotten appreciation in certain circles, but I'm so proud of that show.

39:14I'd still get recognized for Arrested. I was like, but I'm fucking starring on TV shows. Really hard. I know what else I got to fucking do. But that's the thing about this industry is it's never enough. You know what I mean? What have you done lately? There's one thing that hits. I'll always be proud of being recognized as maybe. I love it. I don't bat an eye. I think when I was a little younger and still feeling like a little bitter, sometimes I'd be like, oh, yeah, that, you know, but but no, it doesn't bother me. I mean, if they recognize me for a show where I was 15 on, that means my plastic surgery is working really well.

39:50Amazing. Congrats to your plastic surgeon and you for keeping up the regimen. You're doing great. So I've heard you talk about this, like that you, you know, that's a rude awakening after that show because it's kind of like you expect certain opportunities to be there. And just quite frankly, they weren't. And you kind of had to recalibrate. And that took a minute. In retrospect, I mean, did you play it wrong? Was it a strategy thing or was that just out of your hands? The industry was not ready to receive what you wanted to deliver at that age. I mean, it's a timing thing. like as you said earlier like the timing and being ready and right for parts i mean that's a great thing about you know there's there's so many highs and so many downs for this kind of industry but is that you can do this until you're 90 whatever you know what i mean the part of the role of your lifetime could be you know someone really yeah yeah yeah like michael kane you're like doing i mean he was doing great work before but it's like yeah and then you could have him a great couple years and then all of a sudden it doesn't and then it comes back and i mean not to act like i have it all fucking figured out but i i think i've kind of because i started so young i have this feeling of like it all happens when it's supposed to you know like life outside of work is also very important and it informs the work obviously you need to make money and and you want to stay busy and when you have a lot of friends who are doing things that are really big and commercially successful of course you go like oh man i wish i was kind of up there um but after that time i was so young i was 18 you know and i had just moved to new york and yeah and michael was in super bad and juno right you know so that was happening and i was like uh hello what's happening he's in two of the biggest movies and he got so famous overnight which was really hard for him but you know he handled it But it was like, I just was like, but I'm the other kid on the show.

41:45So where's my, you know, I was really wondering what was going to, if that, you know, I did have that feeling of like, I deserve this. And it never happened. But, you know, in the scheme of things, it was an amazing time in my life. I was living here. I started painting, which is a huge part of my life now. And I wouldn't have really started to practice as confidently as I did because I wasn't shooting. I was traveling with somebody at the time that I was dating. And it was just like I was doing a lot of other things that actually helped me become who I am. I'm a human, fully grounded. And I think maybe I would have like, you know, gotten like too much attention at a young age, could have formed something.

42:26You know, I feel really lucky how it's all kind of panned out. And then I do think it kind of happens every seven years or so. You know, as they say, every seven years, you're like our new person or something. Right. right but i do have i had moments where i was like this is what i want to do is this it because i was had acted as a kid so i was like i could do other stuff i'm still very young you know i'm not over the hill yet and so i had to like re-decide that i really wanted to do it and instead of just feeling like i had to because this is all i knew it's funny though i mean yeah i mean but i mean in looking from the outside in at the filmography it's like there is consistent like great work like let's not don't let's not like get it you know like like twisted like no it's all good you're no but like it's like things that like hit at various degrees and i saw them all at film festivals or in theaters whether it is like runaway cedar rapids rudy sparks ruby sparks the to-do list like these are all really good movies i mean you work with kelly reichard a few times final girls like for someone that's like oh i need yeah yeah yeah like trying to find the groove like you kind of found it when you somehow along the way and we're working with great filmmakers um and they clearly were responding to what you were putting down i mean yeah you like when i rattle off that list i haven't mentioned green room with jeremy saunier like you know you you attract a good caliber of filmmaker and that's got to be a source of pride i would hope for sure and also it's just like it adds to all the experiences like when you're younger too as an actor and then you're doing like you know indie movies you're it's it's like the experiences are very rich you know because you're like you're in a small town in portland and you're hanging out with these seven people every day and you're all sharing some small room and like and you're young and you're like this is the fucking best and you're like figuring out how to smoke weed in the hotel rooms and like you know and then and then you're making amazing art with like a bunch of professionals and it's uh i feel really lucky it's exactly what i wanted to do and i love the kind of group mentality the like kind of tribalistic like traveling circus element of it i like i i'm very adjustable like i like to get like dropped on the floor and be like all right what's your name are we best friends like i just kind of i really like that world you know and so it was really great for me at that yeah and i'm not putting down any of those projects at all i guess it was just more of like there wasn't this huge commercial success which still hasn't happened and that's probably for the best but no i was doing a lot of independent films you know and that's really what i wanted to do and and i'm really proud of every project has had something you know there's only like one weird christmas movie in my past that i'm not proud of but everything else i see it i see it staring at me on the list

45:07matthew broderick anybody great actors makes makes choices too we all make bad choices it happens um you i mean we should give a little of the search party which obviously must be a huge source of pride for you i mean i don't know like we're early on we're all that the the genre shifts like baked into the premise of the show like if we are so inclined if we get the chance to do a few seasons of this we're gonna just keep keep swerving there you know charles rogers and and sarah d 'avis were like the creators were so still in my opinion some of the best writers you know of all time like they're just they're so smart they're so ahead of the curve you know and they i think they were just always kind of rolling with nothing was so planned but they they always had an idea i don't think they knew every season would turn but at the end of the first they're like if we get another one we thought it would be cool if it's a different genre and i was like what a great idea like i don't think i've ever seen that before you know and it's like even the genre of the show a comedy mystery was one of the first of its kind you know here and then everybody started fucking doing it you know what i mean and like not to take all the credit but you know it really was like now everything like a comedy with a dead body like what do i do and i got so frustrated because i was like you know we had a hard time with the networks you know tbs was really supportive at the beginning but then it became hbl max or whatever the fuck they are now who knows uh netflix i guess it's all netflix but you know the show's on netflix apparently the background is just gonna come on like what my apartment is netflix yeah oh god don't laugh it's probably gonna have it but um yeah i mean they don't even have it on hbo max anymore oh really you can't even watch it which is like crazy it's like so upsetting because it's all become so but anyways um it was yeah the genre thing i don't think they knew and they would just always kind of take it to the next level and i remember when we reached the fourth season with cola scola you know which was like we kind of thought that would be the last we didn't know we'd get another one right and it was kind of this feeling where you know that's the darkest season i think of all of them and they were like we kind of hope we do get one more though because we don't want to end on such a downer you know it feels like a little sad like i wasn't even with the main cast most of the time you know like the friends weren't together right and so we were lucky to get this last one um which just like took it to all crazy kinds of level like zombie you know everything and i think it was so even that was like ahead of its time and that was only like five years ago when it aired but it's already still like now we're all taking happy pills some version time has no meaning yeah no i'm so proud of it i really love that show a few of the random ones i want to mention before i let you go uh how did you how did you end up on severance is that how is that a random like what happened yeah that was just that was uh that was an agent that was an agent call i got a phone call and they were like we have a offer for you to be on severance and i was a huge fan i really am a big fan of ben stillers yeah um i really love all the movies he's directed and and honestly and i'm just like a big fan of his yeah and so i found out he was also directing the episode which i was like really excited about and um just to be in that world i was like that's crazy and it was really fun it was a two-week shoot for that just that bit you know what i mean and i'm ridiculous that guy i know i mean we did so many takes and it was like every little thing had to be perfect and it was very different than the way i'm used to working because i'm a little more like loosey-goosey with especially with independent film stuff it's like so i was kind of enjoying it i was like wow this is a different art form you know um but everyone was like so nice on that show and um it was really cool i really enjoyed it we shot a lot of stuff that got cut that i was kind of bummed that i wanted to see but they have so much i mean that show took like i'm not even kidding you like five years to like shoot that season like it took so long i mean not five years it took like maybe two of them because they had the strikes and every episode is like it's like a film you know it's a lot it's a lot of work and it pays off because it's a brilliant show.

49:18But yeah. So talking about kind of the different, you know, pleasure centers of your brain of like art that stimulates you. Like you, you know, you've certainly taken care of like the indie film side. You should be like get a statue in Park City at Sundance by now. But like, is there, can I manifest a franchise for you? Is there a franchise that you love? Oh my God, is that what I want? I don't know. Is there something you want? What's what I want? No, I mean, honestly, the franchise is definitely not the thing I'm like working towards. Right. I think it's just not like consistency. It's like, there's still this feeling of like, am I going to work?

49:59You know what I mean? You know, you always hope like, it's like a gig mentality. You know, I'm like, will I get another gig? Yeah. Does the anxiety go away at some point in my life or is this just part of the deal? You know, I mean, once I had the kid, it just came back up. I was like finally being like, whatever comes, comes. And then I had a kid and I was like, I got to work now. Um, but I, I think for me more, it's like, I want to work with great directors, you know? Yeah. Um, I've worked with a lot of amazing friends of mine, first time directors, and that's been an amazing experience. But I think for me, a next chapter is like, I want to work with like PTA, you know what I mean?

50:32I'm like, I want to work with like really experienced directors now and be like, what do I do? You know, like let's work together. Cause I feel like I, I'm, you know, I'm like an athlete. Like I know how to be on a set. I know a lot of things, but it'd be fun to be guided a bit instead of just feeling like we're doing it all together, if that makes sense. No, totally. Totally. Yeah, and I'd like to direct. I was going to say, yeah, I mean, you produced. Do you write? Is that an ambition also to get stuff produced that you've written and to direct it yourself? Definitely. That's the next thing.

51:04I've written something, and I'm kind of doing notes on it, but I'm hoping to direct it next year. Something that I've been working on for a long time. it was going to be a tv show and then that all fell apart and now i'm like it'll be an indie film because i know how to do that so you do yeah um you've got at least one thing in the can that i'm curious about uh the wrong girls which has a hell of a cast directed by dylan meyer um what can you tease about that one have you seen it yet i have um there's a lot of like it's not to do a spoiler but there's a lot of like voice stuff to do in it you know some kind of like adr trick so we've been finishing that up and Dylan's amazing also first time director but incredible writer it's a comedy, it's a stoner comedy with me and Kristen Stewart what else do you need?