Ebon Moss-Bachrach

31:05I'm kind of okay with a line reading. I think when I was younger and angrier I'd like the principle of it would would frustrate me. Now sometimes it's just like, let's just, I've got so much, yeah, like, can you just tell me what the, you know, just want it louder, that's fine. You know, people, there's a story I heard about, like Gene Hackman, I guess, who would just say, you would just have, I don't know whether it'd be like, Friedkin or whatever, he just wanted them to go like, this, or this, not like thumbs up, good job, but just like a little like, like toggle it up or down, yeah, yeah, bring it down, or just keep staying where you are, and that's kind of general, not specific, and I like that.

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32:45So diving back because we have the luxury of time a little bit. Growing up, are you a jock? Are you a nerd? Are you somewhere in between? Are you a little bit of everything? What's young Evan like? I am deeply into reading fantasy books, little Dungeons and Dragons, playing in the woods. I grew up outside of Amherst, Massachusetts, lots of woods, spending time out there. pretty social a lot of music yeah I played piano for a very long time starting when I was young music was a big part of my house yeah my dad ran a music school my grandmother was a piano instructor at Juilliard and so this was just sort of a non-negotiable part of my upbringing that I quickly really loved and became part of my identity I loved classical music and and then at a certain point in high school I started playing jazz and then it became more of a social thing and that was was was that was a really inspiring moment I think that was maybe the beginning of my love of collaborative collaboration yeah and also improvisation and

34:02spontaneity and and this idea of present and the moment which is is is so essential to to acting and certainly in the theater there's improv involved in dnd you gotta you gotta you gotta kind of just you gotta roll with it yeah literally and figuratively yeah exactly there it is well done were you um were you like a token guy you talk about fantasy like what were reading i was reading like robert jordan okay piers anthony the xanth series like terry um what's his name i would like douglas adams uh frank herbert you know like i was yeah i was never hard fantasy hard science fiction okay um terry pratchett terry pratchett yeah yes yes yes yes um I do it pretty hard sci-fi no it's not considered yeah to be honest I didn't really get into Dune I tried when I was a kid and I couldn't get it's a tough one it's a and then I tried many times with Dune and then maybe the fifth time I started reading it I was like wow and I read like the six of them like back to back oh wow yeah yeah there's a lot there oh my god do you like the movies I do like the movies they're great I mean Denise obviously oh my god what a world builder yeah those kinds of movies you know I would kind of rather watch than be a part of because you know you can't you can't unsee you see you know all the things you know and I mean and I and I'm really good about going in and I love escapist films and I love to just have the world sort of melt away and so but you've you've been in Star Wars you've been in Marvel like are those movies ruined for you now i mean you know how you know the thing is not an actual guy in a suit yeah i guess um um that's what you say um when i did when i worked on andor i will say so the my first scene was you know i got to london i had to quarantine for two weeks i didn't leave my hotel it was like deep covered on my the first thing we shot was this death scene where Diego Luna just I sort of bring up this idea like you know we can there's I know about a moon I'm like a couple thousand parsecs from here and and he looks when he just shoots me with the blaster and I die so that like what a horrible first day I never met Diego's like he was he was lovely thank you we started shooting where somebody in some cornfield outside of London and the director came up and said okay so there's a moon there and then there's another moon over there and i'm like looking at my lines i was like oh and then i got to say parsecs and i was like whoa that was like that was a lot because star wars was really important you know i was born in 77.

36:55you know so and i had a little star wars action figures like that was that was my i mean i love that stuff so that was overwhelming and my you know my my pulse got going and i had to like you know i feel like dry my palms a little bit and then and then get into and try to act because it was it It did feel like so. You're entering your childhood fantasy. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a bit hallucinatory. And on the Marvel front, is that, I mean, there was so much talk about the casting. A lot of names were being bandied about for all four of you. Were they screen testing you guys, or was that just an offer at the end of the day?

37:32I got an offer. I think I got an offer before anybody else. I didn't have any screen testing. I've had to jump through a lot of hoops in my life, and this was one that I did not have to, which, I mean. That's a pretty great gift. Yeah, it was a great, I was really shocked when it was just like, I was just walking down Fifth Avenue one day and then my agents called and they were like, yeah, they asked you to do it. I was like, what? Was there any hesitancy? I mean, there are obviously a lot of pros, and there are always cons, and like, obviously joining a multi-film arc and that's going to take you away from other opportunities etc there could be the fame aspect like was there any kind of hesitancy for you to to jump into it um well i always want you know you want to think about the whole you want to be very sober about about you know sure and you know and i'm not the kind of person who's just been dying to be superhero or anything like that so I really weighed it and for me a huge attraction to it was that I was going to be playing a character that was motion capture yeah or performance capture and that was gonna be very much me but I mean to so many fans they got you know they don't unless they're like real Marvel heads they don't connect me with the orange guy so I found a lot of freedom in that yeah freedom to play and um and like yeah it could be i felt like it could be experimental almost in a way yeah sort of a i don't know really push like my physicality as an actor i don't know it's just it's just it to me it seemed like speaking for me the personally the the best way for me to be a part of this yes universe well we literally just had andy circus in here so I saw that yeah yeah so I mean like and and those that like buy into it and really enjoy it like they embrace it I mean often it is theater actors people that have a lot of experience that love it I feel like because it is it's almost back to like black box theater it's like really using your imagination and using your physicality and I mean how freeing as an actor you know you want to think as an actor you can be anything with performance capture you can literally be anything yep I think that for all the people like for for Pedro Jovanessa my I think we're making these movies is all like a return to childhood and playing make-believe I think you got to really just jump in you know headfirst into this beautiful land of make-believe yeah and I don't know how else yeah to do it and then it is like you know you got to pretend that there's a Galactus and he's really big and so you just kind of have this collective pact of let's play uh andy circus was early on after i um decided to do the part i got in touch with him and he was so generous both he and mark ruffalo they were really i mean it was like i was entering to this like small club of of capture performers and they both were very strong about saying you know this is not really different than the than the other stuff and you're really just trying as much to be there with your people as possible and I was there every day and I was there's versions of making a movie like that where you can you just go into the little black box and do all your capture stuff and I know sometimes people do it like that and I was so grateful to be there and have that experience and also it was like really cool because I'm in my like my suit but for um reed and sue and johnny you know when they look at the thing they see ben grim and so i think it was they knew the guy yeah and so when they're looking at me they're seeing they're seeing ebon and i think that that was helpful for for everybody i felt badly for you guys the press tours for those things are are insane they're weird they're insane i actually I spoke to you, one of the first times I spoke to you was at Comic-Con when they dragged you guys out.

41:38You had just started filming, or like were in rehearsal. In San Diego? Yeah. Oh, we hadn't even shot yet. We hadn't even filmed a thing. We were announcing it was a very strange experience. I say this with love. You guys look like The Walking Dead on that press line. You were like, where am I? How are we doing? No, no, no. We literally flew in, landed that morning, did the thing, and then flew back to London. And it was a deeply confusing, I mean, the way that we were all trying to massage it and make it feel better was like, oh, this is a bonding experience. You know, like we're going up into the sky together.

42:14And man, oh man, was that, that was hard. And it's also just feels so, like you're really tempting fate to go into like a crowd of a hundred thousand people and like high five people. And it's like, we haven't even done the thing. There is also, I don't know how plugged into like social media, but there's like this like now infamous video of you, I think all four of you, and it's like you, especially in Joe during the junket, where like Joe is like, I think just like checked it, he's just like, I think half asleep, because you guys probably done 300 interviews that day. After we made the movie.

42:43Yeah. Oh yeah. Do you know that video that's gone around? There's a few, I think there's a few really, there's one where Joe makes me laugh like crazy.

42:54Yeah, there was another one where they said, I was in Australia and they were like, okay here's there's a room of influencers and i like walked in it was like the why i felt like i walked into the wizard of oz man the people were like dancing around i was like wow it's just it's it is very um it's a lot yeah it's a lot how was doomsday was it a much different kind of experience for you um doomsday was different in that it's it's a bigger movie with more moving parts and and I think it was more compartmentalized. Whereas like Fantastic Four, First Steps, like we were there like every, every day, every day having a sense of the thing.

43:31And these movies are so interstellar and so galactic and conceptual. So it's very hard sometimes to understand what's going on in the story. And Doomsday was a little bit harder for me to hold all the parts in. I mean, I knew where I was, I knew which planets, which universe I was in, but how it was connecting to other universes is I would have to go back to, like Joe, can you just, I know you've talked me through, can you just tell me one more time? I mean, I've talked to all your co-stars in all these films and it's not unusual. You just kind of have to trust. I mean, those guys somehow know how to cobble it all together.

44:08Like you probably, I would guess never even read the full, did you read like a full script at any point or? Yeah. Oh, you did. Yeah, I did read a full script, but those scripts changed quite a bit. Right, right, right. Yeah. yeah um i know you know what probably not it probably didn't have a full like third act right i don't think it had an ending i don't think anyone gets to see that stuff uh and i don't i'm not trying to get spoilers or anything but i'm just curious did you get to see downey do his do his thing because yeah oh yeah yeah pretty cool yeah great yeah uh and what just what like a wonderful man like what a great set leader he was like he was just it was like you know he he's been doing this for a long time and he was so generous and really like checking in making sure everyone was good like it's just like yeah really really good good kind of coach energy there they're variable wrong with these movies were very any look around I would look around the room and I'd be like Ian McKellen and there's like then there's like Channing Tatum and then this is really it's just oh it's it's a lot you know yeah so we now know officially segwaying back to Gary and the bear the bear we kind of knew this but it's the final season coming very soon how are you at saying goodbye to long-term jobs this is obviously a one that has meant a very significant amount to you in terms of career and personal life and who you are as an actor and person was it tough to say goodbye do you feel like you've said goodbye yet well I ended my last day on the bear they were kind enough to shoot me out early so that I could do this play so I missed the first two weeks of rehearsal for dog day afternoon because I was working on the bear and so I was filled with anxiety about my new job um but then I had a certain I was trying to learn lines and I said you know what I can't do this I just got to be here for the bear and the last scene i saw it on the bear was very um cathartic in a way i feel like endings are really hard i've gotten better at them because i've had to do it a lot and fallen in love with the cast and made little families this family is unique i mean i really really these people are very important to me and we all went on this wild journey together um well transformed all of your lives yeah yeah um and we all care so deeply about uh the story and the people that were playing in this um but yeah you know we i got wrapped out and clapped out and i got to hug everybody and cry my tears and thank everyone so much and so i felt like what's the worst is like you you go and you think you're coming back and you don't get back you know and you're just sort of filled with regret and then I and then I had in and then the very next day I was in rehearsal so right um which is nice to not sort of go home and get the blues but I think that I've done what I've wanted to do in the bear more you know more than I would have could have ever imagined and I'm really excited about the fifth season I think it's a very um it takes from all the other seasons in the best way.

47:26And again, endings are really hard, and I think I'm very optimistic about how this show ends. I think it ends in a good way, in a real way. I know people always want to bring up certain episodes, and Forks always comes up, which ironically you always talk about, because you do love the collaborative nature of the show, and that wasn't necessarily an episode where you got to mix it up with the gang. Were you, I mean, obviously that script must have read as a great opportunity and a great script. Like, were you shocked by like the things that resonated? Like who knew that the power of like a 40 something guy singing Taylor Swift alone in a car was so potent?

48:04I guess Christopher, Chris Storen, who gets in Joanna Callan, who I sure didn't. I mean, I've seen that episode once. It's way too much of me for me to really like, you know, and I saw it at, you know, at the, I saw it in the editing office. kind of like watched it like this and you know the editor everyone was really excited about it and i thought they were all crazy um but i know definitely i mean i've talked about that episode with yeah probably thousands of people and it's i don't know what i feel so i mean i said this many sounds like you know i'm just like the forward-facing part i didn't write it i didn't direct it you know what you know what i mean i lived it out no i mean i'm and i'm proud of my work in it and again it's like i said when earlier like talking about joy you know rarely do we get to see joy especially in like middle-aged men yeah too you know it's not something that i think culture puts a lot of like value in and also it's not great for storytelling so much because you know it's like you know it's kind of anti-dramatic in a way you know but i think it's really important to see people have victories and to celebrate and to change and to experience things and to have light and to have their hearts well and to experience optimism and feel the sun on their face and I think it's inspiring and I can tell you without a doubt like it has inspired like thousands of people around the world that I've gotten to and I didn't think that that was possible so it definitely like changed me yeah I was too I was way too cynical to anticipate anything like that but um i mean i'm so yeah humbled and grateful that i got to be a part of that thing it's a it's like a really eye-opening oh it's an all-timer it's it's amazing i you know i mean i'm not dying to watch it again or anything we're gonna watch it right now great we can we can we can lock the doors to this room um i had jeremy on on the podcast Oh, okay, cool.

50:11He's amazing, of course. And it's funny, he talked about something that, like when I was researching you, that you've kind of spoken about too, like how early in his career he thought like he had to kind of suffer for his art a bit. And he's kind of come around to realize like, it's kind of, it's not a unique thing. I think many young actors feel like you kind of have to like, you feel it and just like be miserable. Is it safe to say like that, you kind of went through that similar kind of phase and you're in a different place now where it's okay to be chill and not, not injure yourself. Yeah, I mean, acting is a weird job, and you're sort of...

50:52I think sometimes people can feel conflicted about it being a real job, and maybe you feel like you have to suffer to make it worthy in a way. You gotta punch your car and really like hang in there. I definitely, you know... I was trying to hold myself up to like Marlon Brando and James Dean, you know, you know, you know, there's all, there's so much romanticism around these kinds of experiences.

51:20And my first movie that I did was with Gene Wilder. And I remember him telling me, and we were talking about different ways of acting and people staying in character. And he said, you know, it's incredible for someone to go and stay in character for the whole day and be and live that out and really be that person and transform into that person and live as that person through the center everything he said what's more incredible is to do that and then to go home to your family and be like a dad and a husband or a friend and that really stayed with me although i was certain i was not i mean i was too i wasn't a dad or husband at that point but i mean I think that's I think that's pretty cool you know and doing this play now I mean I've done I don't know how many I think I've done 60 or so of them I got another 100 or performances to do life is what feeds the performance and if you're just living in the thing you know it's really not getting much back you don't have much to draw from if you're just sort of staying in this character.

52:27I mean, or staying in the play. For me, I'm like, I want to be out. I want to experience things. I want to read the news. I want to see what people are. I want to be involved in the world and out in my community and, yeah, and what's happening. And I think that's the only way for an artist to be. I also think it's really funny, this quote. I don't know who said that. I think it was maybe Robert Pattinson, but he said, how come whenever anyone's always, like staying in character for like months at a time why is that character always said fucking asshole it can't be a nice guy yeah can't it be like like willy wonka well you'd be committed i mean if you walked into a coffee shop and said chocolate for everybody but i i thought that was a very illustrative kind of you know he was if it's he put a good room atization of of suffering and you know um yeah and i mean i got a lot of thoughts about it I also think that to perform, whether it be in a musical arena or in a sports, relaxation is very, very important.

53:33Yes. And if you're trying to squeeze some kind of thing, some experience that you're trying to really... You're not open. You're not open. I've tried to do it many times. That is a hard hill to climb. Right. So it's funny. You mentioned one of your earliest co-stars, probably the first star you worked with, the great Gene Wilder. When you look at Jeremy Allen White, do you see what the internet sees? I mean, I see a lot. I mean, there's a lot of kindness in both those men. Those guys have some beautiful hearts, and Jeremy does have a serious set of eyes on him. For sure. Lost in those. That's the real trick.

54:10Yeah, yeah. He's such a, if I could just take one second, just extol, like, he is... such an amazing scene partner and I've told him this before but it was it is like you go into work with him and it's just there's no pretension it's just he's right in there and then it's just he just lifts you up and you just kind of get sucked into the airstream of of of his performance he's just like really takes care of of you as an actor and I don't know if he's doing it on purpose but it's sure but it's sure appreciated you know no he's all he's awesome his hot pizza take he gave me was um he's not he's not into the chicago deep dish which uh is controversial given where you guys you know what man there's a lot of chicagans that don't like the deep dish where are you at no i'm not that ain't for me um i like uh in chicago i like a tavern style where it's like really thin and they do it so you get little squares right like they chop it up like it's a kids party and i like that because it's a little dainty it's a little daintier um okay but no i'm not much of a deep dish guy same too much the bread ratio is all off for me you want the yeah i mean you know i had i mean i i would my birthday's in march and so i would often i have my birthday in chicago when we were shooting and there was one particularly sad rainy snowy chicago day where i found myself in the basement of a deep deep dish place, drinking beer by myself and eating deep dish for one.

55:43The glamorous life of a movie star. Yeah, yeah. Before I let you go, I realize we haven't even mentioned girls. I just want to mention it because I mean, the staying power of that one obviously is remarkable as well. Lena just had her memoir out. Really? Have you read it? I haven't read it. I mean, I've seen her do some amazing interviews about it, but it seems, and she's obviously such a talent. I mean, one of the talents, like one of the challenges for an actor is jumping into something midstream. You jumped into that show third season, as I recall, right? I think so, I think so, yeah. Was it, is that a particular challenge?

56:18I mean, you had been doing it for a while by then, but like, is there security in knowing, oh, they know what they're doing here, or is there a challenge in like, how am I gonna fit into this thing that's already working? Well, I was just involved in like, I had met Lena and Jenny and we were pals and we would have a lot of fun together and laugh together and cook together. And they kind of wrote this part for me, but it was never written as like, okay, you're going to be here for the rest of, you're now a new member of the cast. It was, he was supposed to be in like a couple of episodes and then we just started having so much fun that it just kept extending and extending and extending.

56:53Got it. And that was a collaborative, for me anyways, that was very much a collaborative set the same way that the bear was. I felt very much like the three of us created that character together and they gave me a lot of trust and we wrote together to some extent and it was, yeah, that was just a lot of fun. Did that character affect how people received you in the world, particularly women? Like did they, I mean people can separate a hope character from human being, but... I don't know. I find like when I'm in something that's on TV right now, right then, like, then it's like, oh, then there's like Desi, you know, or, you know, but then it's like something else is on TV and it's like, you know.

57:46Short-term memory. All right, we're going to end with this. Okay, okay. Profoundly random questions. We end every happy second. Oh, yes. Like this. Are you a dog or cat person? I'm a cat dad, yeah. I heard you're a cat. You're softening me up for the hard hitters, I can tell. No, no, that's, I mean, that one almost got Jessie Buckley canceled when she went off against cats. Oh, really? So that is deceptively a challenging one. I also don't subscribe to these kind of binaries. Like, I like dogs. I love dogs and cats, you know, but right now, I love cats here. What do you collect? Bicycles, guitars.

58:23Okay. um old like uh christian dior button-down shirts from the 80s and 90s okay yeah all right do you have a favorite video game of all time um what's it called um load runner oh my god i haven't thought of this is like going back to like like atari Apple 2E or 2C. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I liked California games. Yeah? You know. But I didn't really have, my parents relented and I got like the original Game Boy and I liked Castlevania. Yep. Yeah, we're about the same age, so we got the same reference points, yeah. Okay. Unfortunately we went, my parents got me the Sega Master System, which sent me down the wrong path.

59:10Okay. I was never a Nintendo person. So what were your stuff like, So it was like, So it was like, It was like, Tommy Lasorda Baseball was my game. Okay, okay. sonic you know but it was it's a lonely path it was a lonely path here I am now yeah the Dakota Johnson memorial question she asked me this I ask everybody oh would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt

59:33oh I'll take the bee in the fazool I don't know it sounds like it could be you know might get something change your mind yeah change your life yeah that is generally the sentiment is that the sentiment 90 % so who goes for the beef mouthful of bees i can't recall no one i would want to mention out loud because they're psychopaths yeah that's like one that is that's a good question it's like two kinds of people kind of question yeah yeah short term whatever versus i mean that's gonna fuck you that gives me candy man flashbacks yes yeah yeah totally yeah what's the wallpaper on your phone my kids i would hope so just checking just making sure it's my kids on the on the lock screen and as soon as i open it up it's yelena my wife my partner you're a good person last actor you were mistaken for um somebody was picking my daughter up from soccer practice and she was with her friends this guy this guy came over he's like oh i'm such a big fan it's such a big fan man he's like i love your show uh i watch it all the time i love the one where you were at uh I don't know, he used to name some pizza place.

1:00:43And I was like, I don't think you think. And he thought I was this guy who's like a pizza influencer. Oh. Who? I don't know. You know, I don't know. I can't remember the guy's name. Dave Portnoy? Yeah. Yeah. Dave Portnoy. You don't want to be confused with Dave Portnoy. Well, I'm being honest, man. I'm giving you the straight dope. I don't, you know. Yeah. I mean, I guess I see it, but yeah, no. Okay. All right. Moving on. What's the worst note a director has ever given you? If I get a sense that a director is coming in with some bad stuff and it's a director that I don't really respect, I just pretend that I pretend to just take the hearing aids out and I just say, oh yeah, totally, totally.

1:01:22And then I just keep doing what I want to do. Yeah, I've heard that one too. Yeah, totally. And finally, in the spirit of happy, sick, confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, better mood. Patricia Arquette. Great. Yeah. All the way back, what, True Romance to, you know. the whole thing though i mean i wasn't a big medium fan but uh but man oh man she can do no wrong my lord she's the best we have yeah movie that makes you sad um stand by me yeah yeah yeah and a food that makes you confused you don't get it I struggle with fine dining. You can say that now that the bear is over.

1:02:10Now you're safe. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. We'll see. Everything was good. It did okay. And then he just. What a way to get canceled for not liking fine diner. No, I just can't sit at a restaurant that long. Really? It's just the pay, like you just want to. Yeah, just like to, you know. Got places to be. No, no, no. I'm not in a rush. I just like to have fun. Right, okay, fair enough. No fine dining for Eben. Thank you, man, for making the time for this. I appreciate you. Congratulations, everybody should check out. So it sounds like what, 100 plus performances still to go on dog day? Something like that.

1:02:46All right, good luck. I've been told that I shouldn't think about the amount of shows, I should just think about the amount of weeks. Okay, yeah, that's like eight weeks? We got like 10 weeks or something like that. She got this. I can do it on one foot. Try that out, see what happens. Yeah. Good luck with that. Everybody should check that out if they can. Gary, of course, is out now and the final season of the bear. And we got Avengers movies. You're a busy man. Oh, I know what food is confusing to me. The tuna melt. Oh, I'm not into that. No. People love it, man. And I respect, you know, everyone.

1:03:19It's a matter of taste, but it's a real head scratcher for me. Is it, what about just like the tuna fish on its own? Like, or? I'm not going to get into the weeds with you, but it just seems like a strange thing to do to put some tuna on it and then just melt a bunch of cheese on it. Yeah. Thank you for saving the best for last. Yeah. Oh, God. By the hair of my chinny-chin-chin. We're going to go watch Forks and eat tuna melts together now. Is that okay? Yeah, right now. Lock the doors. Thanks, man. I appreciate you. Yeah, thanks. That was great. Thanks so much. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

1:03:53Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pushed to do this by Josh.

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