Jason Bateman

26:25Sometimes it's a streaming thing that gets across the finish line first. And so, yeah, the next few years I anticipate being really fun. Okay, let's tease that out for a second. Were you a comic book guy growing up at all? You just played Batman, kind of. Oh, right, yeah. No, I was never a comic book guy, and I don't say that proudly. I recognize I'm kind of behind the eight ball there, but I do really enjoy what's being done with that IP. So, yeah, all that stuff is really interesting to me. Okay, so we're not going to go through the entire filmography down memory lane, but we're going to hit some stuff.

27:02If I'm building the 80s montage of Jason Bateman, you know, Silver Spoons, Tiger Beats, Battle of the Network Stars. You never did that. I would have loved to. I was a little too young for that, but that should be brought back. Totally should. I mean, what is peak 80s Bateman? Like what are the moments high on the mountaintop? Were you on the cover of Tiger Beat? Did you get that? Did you get the teen heart drop status? Did you feel it? I don't know. If I ever was, it was probably lower right corner underneath the little tag with your address on there that you can't even see me. I don't know. The 80s were definitely fun for me and an interesting way to be young.

27:48I enjoyed it. It was super fun. And you think you're so dumb and naive at that age, you think it's going to last forever. And of course, you forget. I've got to make a transition into adult acting at some point. So I wish someone had prepared me for that because that was a rude awakening. Yeah, it was a little bit of a sort of, huh. Wait, no one mentioned this part. Yeah, no one saved my place in line. So yeah, were it not for Arrested Development, I probably wouldn't be here today. When were you at your most insufferable? At what age, if I had met you, do you think? I thought I was pretty cool for a long time there in the 80s and probably 90s too.

28:36Yeah, and then you get, like anybody growing up, whether you're a teen actor or not, you get humbled as you transition from being a fearless kid into being an adult where you've got to, most kids it happens in college when you're actually studying about an industry or an occupation, and you realize, oh, I'm not just studying this because it's interesting to me. This is a path to providing and like paying a mortgage and feeding yourself and maybe a family one day. So things get real pretty quick, and that was an interesting period for me, as it is for all. And as I said, fortunately, you know, Arrested Development was basically like getting a really good job coming out of college, you know.

29:28And there is a career path here. If I'm responsible, if I stay right here on this escalator, hopefully maybe they won't kick me off and I can continue to ascend into something that can bring me longevity and job security. And, I mean, it's never a guarantee in this business, even what I'm doing right now. You know, everyone's just a job away from, you know, quiet or the opposite. So you've got to kind of keep your knees bent. So in the years, a couple years before, like arrested even, did you feel like you were always one job away? Like were there jobs that you came close to at the time that felt like, I'm about to turn the corner.

30:06I'm the top three. They're saying the right things. Like does anything stand out as like the one that almost got away that would have changed things? I mean, I've said it before, so I apologize if anyone's ever heard this, but I read to be the Verizon Can You Hear Me Now guy and really wanted it. Because things were not great for me financially or otherwise. And a friend of mine was directing that commercial campaign, and they were looking for kind of a pseudo celebrity to do it. And I thought I'd really nailed the audition. and I actually saw him at a party later that day, that night. And he said, we're going to go with just an actor.

30:52And I was like, oh, I was really disappointed. Three weeks later, I auditioned for Arrested Development. So you think this job you're reading for is the one. You kind of have to to really kind of invest creatively, emotionally into it to do a good job. But it never is. Tomorrow is always a different day, different opportunity. And that's true in anybody's life. You always think today is the most important day. And you just got to kind of keep paddling. In the nicely packaged narrative of your life and career, it's easy to connect arrested to sobriety, which happened a couple of years prior. Do you connect it at all, like that you were in a better place personally, just as a human being, with getting arrested or is it a little bit of happenstance or both?

31:41It was kind of around the same sort of era. You know, stopping drinking happened after arrested was gone. I think it was probably into the second year or something like that. But definitely had I not had this incredible job and, you know, life raft sent my way, it would have been maybe a little bit harder to, you know, I mean, I had something to wake up for in the morning. You know, like I get it. I've still got friends that, you know, enjoy partying a great deal and they don't have to get up in the morning for something. And so I get it, you know, stay up later. And, you know, but I had a real good reason to get up early and have a clear head.

32:26And, you know, I was into a great relationship with my now wife. and things were, I had just kind of done what I planned to do as a kid, as a teenager in my 20s. And it really was time to turn the page and do the things I really wanted to do as an adult. And fortunately, those things were coming. I wanted to have a career. I wanted to be a husband. I wanted to be a father. And those things happened right there in those years. and it would have just been foolish to hold on to something else that was part of the old. It was like that was part of my senior year curriculum, and it was time to be a freshman in the next phase of my life.

33:11And so you've done that class. Yeah. You know. Does Arrested feel like a daily part of your life to this day? Do you get the same frequency of people quoting you lines, of referencing the Bluth family, the banana stand? I mean, as recently as maybe five, six years ago, there was still a little bit of that, but not so much anymore. I mean, really just Will Arnett is really the daily connection for me. Oh, he was in that too. Yeah. Yeah. Will and I are best of friends and that's the daily connection to that that still exists in my life. Do any specific references, quotes that when people bring up, bring a smile to your face?

34:00Are there things that people can bring up that key into a particularly happy memory from Arrested? I mean, anything and everything associated with it gives me a smile. It was a really, I mean, for all the reasons we've been talking about, it was a great memory. But then just the work that we were doing, those scripts were hilarious. and those actors, every one of them, were incredible at what they were doing. And, you know, it's like sitting there, when someone tells you a joke and you laugh your ass off, you kind of want that moment to, and that moment was there at least once an hour, every hour, every day.

34:45And so it was just an absolute gift. What's the funniest thing you ever saw Will do to your face on that show?

34:56Was there a run? Was there a day in particular that jumps out of this guy is next level in terms of what he can do? I feel like, I don't know. I mean, I did audition with him, so I got a sense of how he was going to play the character. But it seemed like in the first episode, we have this scene where he rides up on his segue and I say something like, you know, how's it going? How's it been going? Because I guess I haven't seen him, my brother, for a while. And he just looks down at the segue and he's like, pretty good. So, you know, his take on everything was just super confident, super arrogant, but an absolute clown.

35:43Yes. That classic Will Ferrell mode. It's the overconfident. And he's just a huge blind spot, which takes a great deal of acting talent to pull off. Absolutely no winking. And Will's just an incredible actor, both Wills. Luckily, this run of great work both on TV and film coincided with this great era of comedy and film, which sadly we're not in right now. It's just insane. I hope it comes back. Can we agree Game Night now is a masterpiece? Game Night's amazing. I have not seen it for a while. Really? I remember it being pretty great. Those guys did a really, really good job directing that movie and writing it.

36:25I feel badly sometimes because I've done a lot with Jesse Plemons in recent years, and it's like there's so much to talk to him about his career. All I want to talk to him about is Gary. Oh, really? Like it's just... Yeah, here's new film. It's incredible. It is. He's unbelievable in it. That Yorgos Lanthimos. What a filmmaker. Yeah, that movie, people absolutely love it, and I don't blame them. and it was an incredibly fun thing to do. I was really glad that we got a lot of the night shooting out of the way because I was going to direct that for a long time. I developed that script and we needed a rewrite on it and I asked John and Jonathan to do the rewrite and they were like, we're really just writing things we direct now.

37:08And I was like, all right, I'll jump off as director if you'll do the rewrite. They were like, great, all right. It's a win-win. But while I was developing it, I hate shooting at night. So even though it's called game night and the whole thing takes place at night. Day for night, guys? What do we think? I changed all these scenes to be interiors instead of exteriors so that we could shoot during the day and just tent the building. Right. So we ended up only shooting like, I don't know, a week of actual exterior nights, you know, where you start at six at night and wrap at six in the morning. It's death.

37:38It must drive people insane. I can't imagine. But I was really proud of that part that I'd gotten that all the way down. Well done.

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41:09So do you take, at this point, greater satisfaction in dramatic work versus comedy work? I mean, like, you were so known for so long as comedy guy. Like, it's just like we take you for granted that you can do that. I don't know. Is there a sense of satisfaction when Ozark hits and now Black Rabbit that, like, you're still showing new colors to audiences or what? Yeah. I mean, I would be lying if I said that I wasn't somewhat interested in trying to prove to myself that I can do the other and maybe try to show the audience that I can be believable with the other as well. And that did feel good for it to be embraced on Ozark.

41:55I was very flattered that people bought it. and once again with Black Rabbit it's another thing that I wasn't trying to prove anything but it was really fed by directing the things that I love as a director the things I like to do as a director have a lot to do with all the other departments except acting camera, lighting, production design, editing, composing Like all the other departments you don't get to play with as an actor. And so when you're doing a drama, particularly something scary or violent or criminal, there is a bit more of a demand on those other departments than maybe you'd find in a comedy film.

42:47We'll find it in the edits. We'll kind of do that. There's a little bit of that sense in comedy sometimes. And you've got to turn on all the lights and you've got to make sure that you're here instead of over here to make people laugh. And I don't really agree with all of that, but that's the way people are used to seeing it. And so I would like to do more comedic work now because I feel like I've kind of scratched that itch for the meantime with drama. As a director, I'd like to direct a comedy film. I mean, I enjoyed doing that with bad words, you know, like that was all the colors were desaturated in that.

43:27And it was long lens. And it was, you know, we played with grain and lighting and music. Like it didn't really look like a comedy and we still made people laugh. So it definitely can be done. I'm certainly not the first person to do it. But I look forward to directing a comedy and have it look a little bit better than it needs to. And John and Jonathan did that with Game Night. You know, we talked a lot about look and feel. and they're big fans of David Fincher. We talked about him a lot on that. And they had a couple of moves in there that were Fincher-esque or some of the composition that they were talking about there.

44:04And so it can be done and I look forward to doing it. I think of someone like, honestly, like on the same shelf as you, someone like Stiller. Stiller who like approaches, like Tropic Thunder is a very well-made film. All of his films are impeccably made. Yeah, he's an incredible director. Yeah, it's just taste. It doesn't cost any more money. It's just taste. And you can, I think the audience would love to laugh with a film or a show and have it look a little better than what is typical. Do you have to audition anymore? Are your audition days over? Do you remember the last time you had to audition, Jason?

44:46I don't, to be honest. It's probably been a minute, I would imagine. Yeah, but it's somewhat helpful. I mean, I'm not asking. To prove to yourself that you're capable of it or what? No, it's for the director to see what your version of this character is going to be before it's too late. because if it's an offer, no one gets to see what you're going to do until it's too late to recast you. And it's probably too late to even have the creative negotiation with that actor to just explain tone. Like, I appreciate your version of the character, what you're doing there, but I need to let you know that these other people that I've hired, you haven't seen them do it.

45:35We may have already been shooting for a couple of weeks before you come on. I need to let you know what this is. Well, that's your whole job as a director is to make it all fit together. Exactly. And so auditioning or just having a meeting with a director and talking about tone and talking about comps for that character or what type of film is this. Is this a Mel Brooks comedy? Is it a Woody Allen comedy? Is it like, where does it sit? And same type of references for drama too. It's helpful to know what movie we're all in. Do you remember seeing that spark, like Julia Garner, for instance, when she auditioned?

46:12Was it immediate, like, oh, she's bringing a take that's really interesting here that I can fit into this world? Yes. Yeah, yeah. My personal preference of performances is to not see a performance. Some people really like to see acting. they think the audience might want to show up to watch a performance. And that's valid. As an audience member myself, I like to see everything just kind of disappear. And so I'm looking for people that are not helping the audience, people who are the characters internally as opposed to externally. Excuse me, Julia was very good at being that character, Ruth, internally.

47:02and she was just basically thinking Ruth instead of performing Ruth. And so consequently as an audience member, you kind of lean in and try to read her mind because she's not helping you. She's not thrown to the back row. It's just for the front row. And if you can't hear it or see it from back there, you might want to lean in and pay better attention. And that's, I like that. You've mentioned a couple filmmakers that you admire. Who's the one that like, if the phone call, the message, the text came in, you would drop everything to show up on set. That's a long list.

47:39I've got a lot of company with this list. People like Paul Thomas Anderson, Denis Villeneuve, and Christopher Nolan.

47:49Come close to any of those? Have you had conversations with any? Do we need to manifest something for you? You're doing pretty well, but I want to help manifest anything you want. I mean, I've never met Christopher Nolan, but I've talked to the other two. And, you know, they're incredibly nice guys and incredible at what they do. And, I mean, I literally would pull cable on their sets just to watch them do what they do. Because, you know, directing is such an amorphous thing. It's not something, it's the only person on the set that doesn't have a job. Right. You know, so to watch how they do it is, it's a very unique thing.

48:36And directors don't get to see other directors direct. Well, that's why so many, as you well know, actors turn, filmmakers turn out to be so good because they have way more experience. Like you hear all these stories of great filmmakers who when they directed their first film had way less experience than the actors that they were directing. Yeah, and you can cherry pick from all those great directors if you ever get the chance. So I'm surprised more actors don't direct or more cameramen don't direct or more first assistant directors don't direct. Because, you know, we all work with multiple directors every year.

49:09Directors never get to see another director direct. So they don't know if they're doing something not great or if they're doing something really good and should lean into that. It's weird. Okay, a couple random things for you. Is there an actor who intimidated you most on set? Who did you have to kind of get over, your hero worship or just their manner? I did a movie of the week in the early 90s on CBS with Katharine Hepburn. I was doing this really emotional scene with her, and I guess I was pressing a bit, and she stopped in the middle of it, and she said, stop acting. And, you know, I was like, as a profession?

49:48It seems like a very blanket stick with this. And she was like, no, no, in the scene, just say it. Just say the words. I was like, ah, yeah, of course. So that was helpful. I don't know if that was as so much intimidating as it was educational. She knows what she's talking about. Yeah, because I'm an asshole, I do bring up Teen Wolf 2 over the years with you always. It's quite all right. Thank God it's not the high watermark. I'm able to do that because there's so much great work. Do you ever get any unironic fans of Teen Wolf 2 that are like, that movie changed my life? He didn't say it changed his life, but he, Quentin Tarantino, I was out in the city drinking once, years and years and years and years ago.

50:39And he came up to me and introduced himself. I was like, knocked out. He was like, you know what I just saw yesterday? Teen Wolf 2. Great movie. And he started going on. I mean, we ended up hanging out that night and having fun. But that was a big, like, just goes to show you, like, there's something in every film for everybody. I'm sure he would not put it on his top 10 all-time favorites. But it was very nice of him to bring out some of the things in it that are worthy of. I can't remember what he said about it. but that was surprising. Amazing. Is there a gig that stands out that you were sure you were gonna be fired on?

51:18That like, oh my God, this is like day two. This is not gonna work.

51:27That's a great question and I bet there's a good answer to that but I probably just poured cement over the memory. Years of therapy and blocked it out. Yeah, but there's plenty. There's plenty of times that you're just not sure if what you're doing is working, you know? Because we're, you know, it's just fake life. It's a real cringy, embarrassing thing to try to pull off to pretend that camera's not there. And like we're just having a conversation, there's no one else in the room. It's like, it's a weird thing. It's a thin line between genius and silliness. So you kind of have to get past that and just kind of pull your pants down and go for it.

52:07Yeah, metaphorically. Metaphorically. Since you've had such a storied career, I've done this with folks that have long filmographies. We're going to pit some of your projects against each other, and we're going to anoint the greatest project of your career. You ready? We're going to whittle it down. We're going to whittle it down. It's like Round Robin style. Okay. You're a sports fan. Okay, we're putting Arrested Development versus Juno first. What do you pick? Arrested Development. Okay. Horrible Bosses versus Game Night. Horrible Bosses. Okay. Dodgeball versus Identity Thief. Identity Thief.

52:36Okay. Ozark versus Hancock. Ozark. Okay. Now, we've got Arrested versus Horrible Bosses. Arrested. Identity Thief versus Ozark. Ozark. All the Marvels. We knew this was going to head this way. Ozark versus Arrested, the one true champion in the career of Jason Bateman, according to Jason Bateman, is? I guess I'd have to say Arrested because without Arrested, there would be no Ozark. So, but I'm super proud of what I did with Ozark. just because I asked for it. I asked for the responsibility. And you rose to the challenge. For the rope, yeah. And so that could have been a wipeout. Okay, looking ahead, you worked with one of my favorite people, David Harbour, I believe, yeah.

53:24Yeah, yeah. That's coming up. He's such a good dude. Yeah, that's DTF St. Louis. It's a limited series for HBO. They'll be out in, I think, probably January or February. That's a really special thing that Steve Conrad wrote and directed. But I've been a huge fan of his forever and a very unique writer and director. And so I was very happy to be a soldier for him on that. I'm just an actor and producer on that. I always think Harbour asked me once, this is like years ago, he's like, what's all this podcast stuff? Is there money in podcasting, Josh? And I was like, I don't think so, David. And then the next day you guys sold Smartless for a gajillion dollars.

54:04Licensed. Okay, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, it's shocking, but grateful. I've heard you talk about like next act, maybe coming here to do some theater at some point. That would be great, yeah. I mean, my 13-year-old still got to get through school, and once she is off into college, then Amanda and I can kind of go wherever we want, and the East has always been a place I'd love to come back to. I was born here, but left when I was super young. I'd love to do theater. Some of my friends have done really incredible work on stage, and I'd love to do that and maybe do more of kind of what you're doing. We were talking before we started about how great that show Charlie Rose was and how he brought really interesting people together to talk about what they do.

55:01And I guess we're doing a little bit on that on the smart list, but it's a lot of actors talking about actor stuff. But that show talked about different people in different industries a bit more, and that would be a really interesting thing, just for my own personal edification. I know the whole other part of your life you always talk about is you spend all your time basically watching MSNBC. You're a political junkie, so I would imagine there's a whole part of your brain that's unexplored professionally. Yeah, I never went to college, and so I would like to sort of selfishly educate myself sitting across a wood table surrounded by duvetyne.

55:35I can help make that dream come true. Okay, we're going to end with a happy second for these profoundly random questions, Jason. You ready? Yeah. Dogs or cats? Dogs. What do you collect, if anything?

55:49I collect baseballs. Like game used? Yeah, they're not significant ones in boxes. But yeah, I've got a bunch of them sitting around that house. How many of you caught or stolen from children? I've actually caught two foul balls in my life, which is pretty good. I'd trade one of them in for a hole-in-one in golf, which I still haven't gotten, but equally rare. Amazing. Favorite video game of all time? It would be a stand-up one, because I'm an old guy. Probably Pac-Man. I put in a lot of time there and got pretty far. I think like 14th Key, I think, was... Okay. You need to talk to your dad to figure out what that means.

56:32We're at the same age, basically. This is the Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

56:42I was just going to say something that would have been your clip, but I'm not going to give it to you. But you say Dakota Johnson. I got to say, Splitsville is a fucking great movie. I agree. That's a great movie. People sleeping on that one. Check it out. Yeah.

57:02I don't want bees in the mouth. That would hurt a lot and could potentially kill you. So I'd take the other. Okay. What's the wallpaper on your phone? My two girls. Last actor you were mistaken for? Probably Jerry O 'Connell. You know. Sure. Yeah. Okay. worst note a director has ever given you?

57:31Less. How'd you take that? To heart. I dried my eye and did another take. Yeah, that's it. It's false. Yeah, once I became a director, I figured out how to give that note in a much kinder way. How do you do it? Give it to me. I've just gone too big in a take. What would you say to me? I can't reveal my secret, but rest assured, the proper note lives in instilling confidence in the actor. Right. You gotta figure out how to get them to - Start with something positive and then - Yeah, you lose an actor's confidence, you're gonna have an even worse take next. Yeah. And then finally, in the spirit of happy second fuse, an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're instantly in a better mood.

58:20Will Ferrell. movie that makes you sad?

58:28Well, in light of today's tough news, Ordinary People. Redford. Yeah. Fast. What a great movie. Never do it. And a food that makes you confused, Jason. You don't get it. Gnocchi. You don't like the potato gnocchi. What is it? Is it pasta? Is it a vegetable? How are we spelling that? How are we going to pronounce that without making me cringe? So it's about the word and what it is. The whole thing's a wipeout, yeah. Forget it. Let's have pasta or let's have vegetables. You just haven't met the right gnocchi in your life yet. Stop saying the word. Gnocchi. Congratulations on Black Rabbit. First time guest on the podcast.

59:05It only took 11 years to get you on. Let's not make it another 11. Yeah, we've got to get a video component on our podcast. That's where the real money is. You guys can make a gajillion dollars. You're doing video anyway on Zoom. Just turn it on. I know, right? Maybe. You thinking about it? Do people want to watch a quad split?

59:26I want to watch your quad split. Sounds wrong. Keep it clean, Josh. Sorry. It's good to see you, buddy. Congratulations on Black Rather. You too. Thank you. And to you as well. Thanks for the time today. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh

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