Matt Damon

0:00Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crocs store today. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto.

0:43Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. It's nighttime. There are towers on fire. There's a thousand extras in battle armor running through the streets. There's all this fight choreography going on. And I'm walking through all this. And Van Hoitam is behind me with the camera on his shoulder. A guy runs by. He's on fire. He's part of the film. Part of the film. This is all planned. No, there's a safety team waiting for him.

1:18Like, this is all coordinated somehow. And Chris calls cut. And Hoitam puts the camera down and turns to me and goes, this is a flashback. Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

1:37Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, our exploration of the Odyssey continues with the man himself, Odysseus, is in the house, Matt Damon, back on the podcast, plus a special blast from the past with Matt. Hey, guys, thanks, as always, for checking out Happy, Sad, Confused. remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube on Spotify. Don't miss a single episode. We give you the best in film and TV week in, week out. We do our best. So hopefully by now you're a subscriber. If not, get with the program, guys. Come on. So most recently we shared our Christopher Nolan conversation, A Blast from the Past with Christopher Nolan, and we had to continue covering the Odyssey because this is one that demands multiple episodes and there will be more to come, safe to say.

2:22But this episode features Odysseus himself, Matt Damon. This is another one like the Christopher Nolan episode. I will say this is a bit of an unusual format because as I said on the Chris Nolan conversation, they weren't really doing the long form chats too much for this leg of the publicity tour. But I couldn't skip out on the Odyssey because of that. So what I did was, and I had the same discovery I had with Chris Nolan, which is I have a happy say I confused episode with Matt Damon that has never been shared in video form. We talked back a few years ago during the pandemic times when we were just starting to pivot to video.

3:01I did Matt over Zoom, but we never ran the video yet at that time. We just weren't doing it. So what you're going to see and hear today, however you're enjoying this, is my most recent conversation with Matt Damon about the Odyssey. Fantastic. Talk a lot about this amazing opportunity. We even tease actually a little bit about his upcoming movie with the Daniels, which I'm very excited about, and more. We pack a lot into 10 minutes. But then after that, you're going to get kind of a bonus episode that very few people have heard, let alone no one has seen except for me, this conversation with Matt Damon way back when, which has so much great stuff in it, I will say.

3:39This has this fantastic story about the Michael Mann version of Good Will Hunting that nearly happened. This has stories about turning down Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight, speaking of Christopher Nolan. This has stories about auditioning for Robin in Batman. Yeah, there's some amazing stuff in this conversation. So I couldn't believe I had never shared the video before. So I'm thrilled this gives an excuse to give this a little love so um that's the main event today as always quick reminder remember check out our patreon because that's what helps support and make this show week in and week out patreon.com slash happy set confused early access discount codes autograph merch access to our live events reminder i'll be in san diego in just a few days moderating panels on friday blade runner 20 99 and saturday apple and that's going to include silo widow's bay matchbox the movie tons of really cool stuff.

4:37So I hope to see some of you guys out there in person in San Diego. Okay, let's get right to it. We continue to revel in all things The Odyssey, this huge, huge event that is the latest from Christopher Nolan. First up, you're going to see and hear this new conversation with Matt Damon followed very quickly thereafter with this blast from the past that nobody has ever seen. So enjoy Matt Damon for your eyes and ears right now on Happy, Sad, Confused. Matt, good to see you man. Great to see you. You played this one well. You slow played it. You know, you did the, you turned down Harvey Dent back in the day.

5:11We talked about that. Then you take the two supporting roles. It's the Killian Murphy school. You slow play. Play the long game. I learned it from Killian. But it has to be a moment, like in a career filled with moments. To get the call for this director, this film, tell me about it. It was just the greatest call I could ever want professionally and the experience was just, it lived up to everything I could have ever wanted. It was so challenging, not just for me, for everybody. And the experience of trying to do something this ambitious, you know, a story that's this foundational to Western culture and, you know, all in IMAX.

6:02I mean, the whole thing was just this insanely ambitious undertaking, and to get to be a part of that was just phenomenal. I mean, you've worked with the best of the best. We've gone through the list of filmmakers in your career, and you've obviously worked with Chris now a few times. You've worked with Ridley, and he's like the school of Ridley in some ways. This is kind of his Ridley Scott movie, I feel like, in some ways. That's right. Like being on these sets, these six different countries, all these extras, there must be those moments where you're like, this doesn't happen anymore. Yeah, every day.

6:37I mean, look, there was a scene. We were shooting Troy, and it's nighttime. There are towers on fire. There's a thousand extras in battle armor running through the streets. There's all this fight choreography going on, and I'm walking through all this, and Van Hoytema's behind me with the camera on his shoulder. A guy runs by, he's on fire. He's part of the film. Part of the film. This is all planned. No, there's a safety team waiting for him. Like, this is all coordinated somehow. And Chris calls cut, and Hoyte puts the camera down and turns to me and goes, this is a flashback. And we just started laughing.

7:16We were like, oh, my God, the scale of this. Just a little insert. Yeah, just a little flashback. This is a question only you can answer. Or what's worse, living inside of a horse with 50 men or rooming with Ben Affleck for a time? I'm going to have to choose the horse for that one. It was tough inside the horse. But, you know, shooting that, Chris, I asked him, I was so curious how he was going to do it. And he said, I don't know. I said, what do you mean? He said, no, we're just going to get in there. And it's such an interesting thing with him. He really has a deep understanding of all the elements he's going to need.

7:48And he's on top of every bit of design. And he's meticulous. this attention to detail is incredible and it's i mean legendary yeah but he still shoots like an independent film he still discovers the moments um and and you still have incredible creative freedom within within the context of what he's what he's building around you so it's it's um it's how he gets what he gets does the appreciation kind of grow greater as you've you know you've clocked some miles now in the career and like i would imagine you for sure and and you know the ups and downs happen for anybody. Do you take a moment on set?

8:21I mean, the job is the job. You have to focus on the job. But I would hope maybe moments like this, you can kind of take a moment. No, even on set, I felt like a real sense of gratitude every day that even, you know, whatever came of the film, the fact that I got to have the experience of doing something at that scale the way David Lean would have done it, you know, was just like, because those opportunities are, you know, few and far between. and particularly at my stage in my career. You're talking like you're like Hume Cronin. Like you're like. No, but, well, I'm older than Wilford Brimley when he did Cocoon.

8:53Oh, I've been tracking that. I'm about to pass it myself. Comes up quicker than you think. So I did think about that a lot. I can congratulate you on three fronts. The acting, the beard, and I'm not one to objectify, but this is the greatest bicep work I've seen outside of a Hemsworth film. Thank you. Oh, wow. That's high praise. That's very high praise. I'll tell Chris. Like, all the credits, it should have said, like, with Zendaya and Matt Damon's biceps. Like, it needs, like, its own title card, I feel like. Well, you know, when we did the forced perspective stuff of the Lace Dragonians, I don't know if there's been a thing about how we did it, but there were, you know, there were these kind of stuntmen who were all seven feet, right?

9:36And then they got stuntmen who were under five feet. And so my double was a woman, a female stunt performer. who had the greatest arms I've ever seen. And when she came into the catering tent was the first time I met her. I went up and I hugged her. And so, you know, and I thanked her for all the work she'd put in. And so there are those shots in the movie where you see these giants looming over me. And that's so, so it was almost 100 % my arms in the movie. But there are shots there. You gotta give it up where it's due. Give me a sense, like, you, again, had moments in the career. I'm sure seeing the finished product sitting in a theater like is there anything you can equate this to like no moment going back no no and I don't think I've had the experience of being so overwhelmed I feel like I put so much into it it it came at such a cost um and it was such a joy yeah that my expectations I just would have been unrealistic for and so like I almost couldn't couldn't see it But it's like, you know, and then I saw it in IMAX and I got it.

10:45And I was like, wow, you know, this was a kind of capstone moment in my career. I feel real grateful I got a chance to do it. What do you do the day after rap? Like, is it right to the spa? Like, what happens? Go home. Like Odysseus. Recognize your family. Yeah, exactly. You went home. You made it. I made it home. Yeah. Yeah. And also, look, you're number one on the call sheet, obviously, but that being said, this is like an ensemble you've never seen. And you've been number one a lot in your career. But it must just be such a – you know that responsibility, but to look around and to see the company of actors he's assembled around you.

11:21It's incredible. And it also meant that every day I was working with some other extraordinary person. And they all just slotted right into their roles. They fell right into these roles, and they were so good. You know, and obviously that makes my job so much easier when you're acting opposite somebody who's that dialed in. It just makes the entire experience just a joy. You adding the Daniels to your resume too? It sounds like you're going to work with them. Yeah. How insane does that script read? I can only imagine. It's exactly what you'd hope. In that I have no idea what to expect. And that it's not like anything you've seen.

12:04Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I'm really excited to work with them. Is that another easy yes when you read that script and you have that conversation? Yeah, and also just them. I really, they're just lovely people who have lovely things to say and want to put, you know, very positive vibes out into the world. We could use some. Last thing. Seen anything good lately? Film, TV? I just went and saw Obsession the other night with the kids and, you know, at our little local spot, and that was great. I really thought, you know, I mean, Indian Aborette's incredible, incredible. But I thought all four of them, all the actors were terrific in it.

12:45And I'm happy to see, you know, a smaller movie, you know, outkick its coverage that way. A 26-year-old, you know something about being the wonderkind. It's good to see the next one. I do, and I'm real happy for everyone involved with that one. Congrats on this man, honestly. Always good to see you buddy. Thanks, great to see you. Appreciate you, Josh. We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

13:09So some of you may think what you see and hear on the podcast is the total me. The truth is I get super stressed like everybody else. Work challenges, the health of a loved one, it can all feel pretty overwhelming. That's why I'm so happy Rula is an ongoing sponsor for Happy, Sad, Confused. It's one thing to find a therapist you like, but then you learn the problem of actually making sure that they take your insurance. then there are all those online therapy platforms, right? But the truth is that many of them don't work with insurance. And then you're looking at huge out-of-pocket costs. So guess what?

13:41Now you can add money stress to the rest of your problems, not with Rula. Their average copay is just$15 per session. And that's because they partner with over 100 insurance plans. And it's real therapy from licensed professionals. This should be how insurance works after all, right? You use your insurance benefits to maintain your physical health. Why shouldn't you do the same for your mental health? And Rula knows that in order to provide you with the best care, they have to consider your goals and preferences and backgrounds so that you can get a curated list of licensed in-network therapists who are actually aligned with what you need.

14:14Because finding the right therapist can make all the difference. No wait lists. Appointments are available as soon as tomorrow, and you're not on your own, guys. Rula sticks with you throughout the journey. They check in to make sure that your care is helping you as you move forward. So go to Rula.com to get started today. That's R-U-L-A.com for quality therapy that's covered by insurance. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula.com to get started. And after you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them.

14:48Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's Rula.com. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks, and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything as a built-in business partner can be a game-changer. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all e-commerce in the U.S.

15:27from household names like Gymshark, Rare Beauty, and Heinz, to brands just getting started. Shopify has hundreds of ready-to-use templates that can help you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. And you can tackle all the important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. And if people haven't heard about your brand, you can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you with easy to run email and social media campaigns to reach customers wherever they're scrolling or strolling.

16:03Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash realm. Go to shopify.com slash realm. That's shopify.com slash realm.

16:27hey matt how's it going buddy hello josh how are you man i'm doing well hello from uh midtown i take it you're you're in the environs you're in the new i feel your presence in the new york i'm in i'm in brooklyn i'm in brooklyn yeah i feel your force too you're within i can look down i see midtown out there here there you go um this has been a long time coming i've wanted to have you on the podcast forever of course we've talked at junkets and all those kinds of things but i I appreciate you taking the time out for this one. And we chose the right one, I think. Tom McCarthy is a special filmmaker.

16:58Congratulations on Stillwater, man. Thank you, man. Thank you. Yeah, I'm really happy with it. So first of all, this made its debut in Cannes. I'm endlessly fascinated by the phenomenon of the lengthy standing ovation when it happens in Cannes. And you guys were privileged enough to get one. At what point does the standing O get awkward after? It feels like five minutes is an eternity. Five minutes may not sound like much to somebody, but that's a long time to stand on your feet while people are clapping. Yeah, no, it's yeah. Yeah, it's very strange. And it's awkward immediately. There's nothing not awkward about it.

17:36Adam Driver, actually, he crushed it this year. Apparently, he lit a cigarette in the middle of the standing wage. And he doesn't smoke, but it was like he just had to. He just wanted to do something. I thought that was really funny. I read it, but I haven't talked to him about it yet. But anyway, yeah, it's very odd. But this year I was really kind of oddly emotional. It just snuck up on me, that moment of just being back in the movie theater again. It just felt so great to be with everyone. And maybe I'm just getting old. I said that to Tom McCarthy. I was like, I think I'm getting old because I'm really emotional right now.

18:20No, I mean, we've all been we were all suffering from PTSD for the last year and a half. I mean, I found myself getting emotional when I was in the theater for Fast 9. So something is wrong with me. Listen, that's a tearjerker. OK, I haven't seen it yet, but obviously I've read all about it. When they go into space, waterworks, man. It's amazing. Do they go into space in Fast 9? Oh, no, I ruined it for you. I'm so sorry. You didn't ruin it for me. I just got to see the other eight. Exactly. I knew this about your career, but when I was prepping for this, I was reminded of the fact that to look at your filmography is to look at the history of great filmmakers of the last 25 years.

19:05It's kind of insane. I want to get to that in a second, but let's start with, for me, it's a no-brainer that you end up working with Tom McCarthy. So Tom is a fantastic filmmaker. People know him from work as diverse as, you know, the station agent to Spotlight. From what I gather, he's been trying to get you in his orbit for a while. What happened? Did Dinklage beat you out for station agent? What went down? I wish I was in station agent. I mean, that was when I first became aware of Tom. Like, you know, and that's interesting. You bring up Peter, like the acting in Tom's movies is always great, you know?

19:42And I mean, look, that has a lot to do with the writing and the directing. I mean, he's putting his actors in a position to do good work. But I mean, it's uniformly great. I mean, Peter Cannavale, Jenkins, like all these guys, you know, are just awesome all the time. And yeah, I'd been looking for, you know, I almost did Spotlight, but it conflicted with The Martian. so I you know it was like I had to choose between a kind of a headlining role and an ensemble role and they were both great right um and I don't like normally saying about you know things that look a lot of the movies I've done were things that other actors couldn't do I like I like you're very rarely the first choice for something and I don't like saying that about Spiley just because Ruffalo crushed it and Ruffalo I think he got nominated for an Oscar and like it's like an amazing performance so yeah i always feel like the right actor gets the job you know what i mean like i looked at spotlight and i was like well thank god you know because mark killed it um i had that happen with milk um years ago um i you know gus offered me the part of dan white that josh brolin also got nominated for and josh is and i literally i had to i was in the movie i was doing the research, I was reading, I was watching these documentaries and I'd kind of doing my deep dive on Dan White and Sean Penn had a had a conflict.

21:12I can't remember what it was, but he had to push the movie six months. And because because it pushed from the fall to the spring, I suddenly couldn't do it because I already had another job. And so I had to give it up. And, you know, it wasn't a big part. It was a supporting role. But I love that script so much. and I love Gus, obviously. And so it was a hard one to pass up. But then I saw the movie and I saw Brolin and I was like, man, this happened for a reason. Like this guy's amazing. So anyway. I was gonna say, does it ever happen where, like some other famous ones and you've talked in recent years about like Avatar.

21:50And I remember, I think we talked briefly at one point about Dark Knight. Like when those ginormous cultural phenomenon films come out, do you have a tough time seeing them? Like, is it, do you, do you have a tough time watching Avatar or Dark Knight knowing like, oh, wait, I, I could have been part of that? Well, Dark Knight was a small role that I was offered. Like it was a, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't one. I mean, it obviously wasn't Heath or Christian's part. Right. It was the Harvey Dent role, wasn't it? It was the, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and so like, sometimes you look at a role and you're like, oh, it's, it's good.

22:25It's, it's, it's a, it's a good role in a great movie. I mean, I subsequently did a small role in one of Chris's movies. Sure. Right. In Interstellar. Like I wanted to be on, you know, part of that troupe. He works with the same actors over and over and they're terrific. And, you know, I wanted to jump on that ride. But there was some other big movie I was doing, like some big part that I was doing where I was like, well, I can't play, you know, Harvey Dent. You know what I mean? And it's like, this is, this is, it's, it's a relatively small role and I'm, I'm headlining this other thing. So anyway, sometimes those, but I think you got to kind of just be sanguine about it and go like it, it, it all works out.

23:08Like, I mean, at this point I passed on the biggest payday in the history of, right. I mean, accidentally, but like, so I can never do worse financially. that's a good way of looking at i can never commit a worse financial like don't you know don't doubt yourself you i believe in you you could fuck up even more in the future i might be able maybe i'll figure out some way there'll be some screaming thing that i could have you know owned part of the company or something and you know and it turns into the next facebook but anyway i you know so but i'm not you know you i i really do believe the actor gets the part that they're meant to get.

23:51And who knows, like, you know, had I done Avatar, would I have written The Last Duel? Would I have, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah. You know, when Ben and I got really close on Dead Poets Society, not really close, we got called back. That script, well, I mean, I was, I don't know, I was 18 years old and I read this thing and I was like, that's, it's the best script. Robin Williams was the star. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This is amazing. and it was an open casting for kids to play these prep school kids and Ben and I were I mean you talk about like lit up for something like this was it for us we were I mean it was it was an unbelievable opportunity and and I would still say it was I mean you look at the careers that came out of that Ethan Hawke Robert Sean Leonard I mean amazing actors right so those guys beat us out.

24:43And Ben and I ended up that summer working at a movie theater in Cambridge in Harvard Square at the Janus movie theater. And the Janus played one movie all fucking summer. And it was Dead Poets Society. And we had to tear tickets and serve popcorn and soft drinks to and sweep up after every show. And we would watch packed house after packed house coming out, wiping tears off their face and we were like fuck that could have been us you know what i mean that should have been us that was us you know what i mean and we didn't we didn't get it and i think there's a garth brooks song it's is there somebody where he talks about i thank god for my unanswered prayers right right because we wouldn't have written goodwill hunting like we we ended up writing out of necessity goodwill hunting and guess what robin williams was in it you know there was a better plan you just didn't weren't in control of it necessarily we just controlled but so so you never know i mean life is crazy and and uh you know you just got to keep trying to do good work and and you know i mean had i had i done avatar it's like my favorite john krasinski story like when we were writing promised land together and I told John that I passed on 10 % of avatar.

26:04John jumped up and he starts walking around the kitchen and he's like, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Because nothing in your life would be different. Nothing, Matt, nothing in your life would be different if you had done avatar, except you and I would be having this conversation in space.

26:25with richard franson and chef bezos yeah exactly that's it and then and then the guys who actually have that money actually launched themselves in giant space penises like space rockets penis rockets and fucking go to space it's like you can't write this shit no you can't so coming full circle yes um tom mccarthy uh came back to you thankfully with the right role and the right project. This is a fascinating one. It makes sense in Tom's work if you look at it because it kind of combines the different elements he's done. It's like it completes his like displaced men box set, which I feel like is like the visitor and station agent.