Olivia Cooke

0:00Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crocs store today. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto.

0:43Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. What's the worst note a director has ever given you? Be more magic. straight off the top of the dome then be my magic traumatized i was like what do you mean it's like be more magic i was like that's amazing

1:14yeah yeah that was hard that was a hard one prepare your ears humans happy sad confused begins

1:25Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Olivia Cooke for the first time on the podcast. She's talking me, Earl and the Dying Girl, Ready Player One, and of course, the new season of House of the Dragon. Thanks guys, as always, for checking out the pod. Remember to hit that subscribe button, whether it's on YouTube, Spotify, however you're doing it, you know what to do. before we get to olivia some quick reminders as always patreon.com slash happy sad confused that's where you can get the early access discount codes you can ask questions get autographed merch all sorts of fun stuff we've been doing some live events recently we had matt smith on recently at 90 seconds street y and we have in just a couple days if you're listening or watching this right as this comes out we're doing a live event june 24th with millie bobby Brown and tickets are still available.

2:15Another first time guest on the pod. The information is in the show notes, but it's also on our Patreon, patreon.com slash happy, say it confused. Okay. So the main event today, as I said, it is Olivia Cook, who surprisingly has never done the podcast. She's been on my radar for a long time. The first time I chatted with her was for that festival hit me, Earl and the dying girl. She was so great in that one, but following her throughout her career, Of course, Ready Player One was a big one, that huge Spielberg film, Bates Motel back in the day, Thoroughbreds, Sound of Metal. She always delivers.

2:47And as you'll be able to tell from this conversation, as I say to her, she's just kind of a real human being, which, yeah, most of the people I talk to are, but she especially has always just read to me as someone with a good head on their shoulders, a self-deprecating wit, a good attitude. She takes the work seriously, but not herself seriously. so um yeah a lot of fun moments in this conversation to look back at some near misses some auditions that went awry some star wars talk of course um yeah this is a fun one i'm really thrilled that it finally happened so without any further ado and a quick reminder as always you know you got to check out house of the dragon i'm not that you need to know but it's on hbo now the first episode just dropped i've seen the first two it's fantastic um yeah in the meanwhile enjoyed this conversation no spoilers in this just enjoyed for its own conversation sake me and olivia cook olivia yeah live i guess yeah live you can call me live anybody call you olivia like is it your mom like if you're in trouble when i'm getting told off sometimes sometimes it's olivia but i like live lives nice yeah lives familiar lives colloquial i would say our history like we don't have like a lot of history but i feel like it's long it's a long history i have some very happy like you always have registered to me as like a real human being thank god i mean that's a huge compliment okay good because you know some folks are not yeah and we've met them we've met them we're gonna name names at the end of the podcast oh i will i'll name a shame we met i think on me at earl and the dying girl yes and then i have this vivid memory that you will not remember because it was like literally six seconds I remember walking by you it's in Sundance and there was a film that had screen there and I said I saw your film I mentioned the film and you without missing a beat set you apologized you said oh I'm so sorry what film was it should we I mean yeah it was limestone golem which was a film hey it was a film it was a film Bill Nighy fantastic I love him who doesn't love him love him Sam Reed Sam Reed also great yeah Douglas Booth.

4:53Yeah. Some come, some go. It happened. We all try our best. We do. We all give it 100%. Please, I spent 20 minutes talking to your buddy Matt Smith about Morbius. So you're fine. You seen Morbius yet? You should check it out. I saw it. You saw it? I saw it and I just haven't brought it up to him. What a good friend you are. You saw it. He's fantastic. Of course he is. He's always fantastic. um i was asking you how the the tour is going yeah good good part about house of the dragon a it's house of the dragon it's game of thrones it kind of sells itself yeah by this point yeah be there a lot of you can spread the wealth a bit yes we can all just like do our bit right means there's less pressure on oneself yes and then we can honks you do you feel do you feel at this point, I don't know, because you've been in all manner of film and TV.

5:49Some register, some are as big as they come. Ready Player One, gigantic. The world is paying attention. And then there are small films, Sundance films, that you struggle to get any attention. I guess there's a yin and the yang. There's a great, oh, people are paying attention to this. House of the Dragon. There's also probably a nice, oh, it doesn't matter what I say for the small film. You know what I mean? like yeah it's like it's like uh yeah the the train has left the station with house of the dragon you know i don't need i don't need to do anything really this is all just like you know vain box vain self-promotion you know the brand yeah not the actor the brand yeah the brand yeah stocks are up i'm investing all my money yeah yeah i don't know about that um But yeah, with independent film, you want to do everything you can for those stories.

6:47Yeah, especially the ones you believe in. Yeah. And you want to literally stand on your soapbox and hold the poster high above your head and be like, please, come one, come all. But this doesn't need that. Don't need that, guys. It's all assholes. We're fine. It's all gravy now. I think so. I hope so. I do feel like there's goodwill. I think like you've been kind of already even just in two plus seasons now. You've kind of like gone through the arc of like first season trepidation, but people got excited. And I think it had a good reception. Season two, maybe like a little divisive. There's a little bit.

7:20And now I feel like I've seen the first two episodes. The word out. There are good vibes out there for season three. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I've heard good stuff. You can sort of tell when you're being interviewed. You know, you can sort of you can sense a lukewarm reception and you can sense the, you know, the genuinely excited reception. And I think that it has been the latter this time around. So that is nice. I don't have to sort of like, you know, petition. So for you at this point, what are let's rank the most stressful parts of the job? Is it receiving the job and knowing the mountain you have to climb?

8:02Is it stepping onto set first day? Is it talking about it and then feeling, I've heard you talk about the self-loathing that comes with doing press sometimes. Yeah. So are these all hardships? They're all completely different. And I wouldn't say they're hardships. No, we're not coal miners here, but it's okay. Poor me. But I, yeah, the trepidation, the dread that comes with getting the coal, that you've got the job, the sort of split second of elation, which then quickly moves into something a little bit more insidious and like white knuckle. Yeah. That's its own thing because then you sort of start to – well, I do anyway.

8:43I start to sort of second guess myself and second guess their decision. It's like, oh, God, I'm going to get to set and they're just going to see that I can't do this and that I'm terrible and they're going to want to recast or we'll do the read-through. And everyone's terrible in a read-through. Right. And then you start to do the math once you start shooting. You're like, how long can I shoot before I know they can't recast? Yes. because I've been on films before where like two weeks in someone's gone and another person's in their place and it's like that's no one is safe no one is safe even when you know contracts are signed and it's yeah it's a you're on sort of like unsafe footing so that's its own thing I'd say like the sort of coming back season after season the sort of emotional and mental stamina that you have to have and you know you've got to imbue the season with as much energy as you gave the first and sort of trying to mentally follow your arc even though it's been at this point since we've been filming like five years it's also like quite tricky they're very long shoots needless to say how long are you shooting each season.

9:50Seven months. Seven months. Yeah. As I understand it, you're not necessarily shooting like episode one followed by episode two. No, no, no. It's a little bit of that shooting, right? Yeah. All over the place. And so that's a mind. That's a minefield. Yeah. You'll, we have a wonderful script supervisor, Tess, and I sort of do go to her and I am just like, Tess, like emotionally, where am I? Where am I? Out of 10. Give me a number. Where am I? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Seven. Great. Got it. I can do that. Yeah. So she's, she's really, she's really good I do rely on her quite a lot just because it's you know it is so wide ranging and it is a bit discombobulating at times and then when you add the multiple seasons and the years on top of that and and then as a person like I started this job well I got the job when I was 26 and I'm 32 now so that's like a lot of life that's been lived I'm not the same person as I was then but then trying to like lock in to that is also like its own challenge and can we talk about like to get a little meta the media side of it this kind of a thing because you've talked before about your relationship with instagram with twitter back in the day like with press how do you what are the coping mechanisms how are you you allow grace to yourself to kind of like deal with has to be dealt with and not nitpick everything you say and it's hard i think i've gotten better yeah um i have had a sort of not even a love hate i think i've hated it all the way but like i've had some sort of relationship with instagram where i didn't have it then i got it and now i now i've gotten rid of it again just because i'm like i don't think i'm resilient enough as a person to have access to like all these people and their opinions And I don't think anyone is, actually.

11:45I think it's... The long-term repercussions of this. I mean, the short-term repercussions we're seeing. But, like, the long-term, we're all fucked. We're fucked. And just from being off of it, I'm like, oh, my God, I've got my, like, my mind back. And also, like, my... I feel like so much more pure of thought. I'm like, oh, I'm not regurgitating something that I've seen in, like, a clip. This is actually what I think. This is before. this is the guy that's still in there and this is the after yeah no no no no no no i'm so it's so hard to get out it's it's it's tough it's tough in there it's hard also when when you've got a podcast and this is your main area of promotion as well whereas i feel like you know i'm just like looking at my publicist like um i think i'm okay at the mo to not have this extra bit that i have to sort of feed as well because I think personally it's too much of a tax has like any external whether it's a review a comment has it ever affected a performance has it ever got in your head enough that so I need to change even like a facial expression and approach to a character or no I'm aware of like there's been commentary commentary about like my like Allison like facial expression where she looks like worried but that's just me like that's just what my face sort of does when I'm like what you get in distress and you know Allison's in distress a lot of the time and unless I got you know um sort of irrevocable plastic surgery I like I can't do anything about I can't do anything about it um so no no and also I don't watch the monitor I do want to just be as free and as like, you know, unburdened by my appearance as possible on set.

13:40We'll be right back with more Happy Said Confused.

13:47Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto.

14:29bundling just another way to save with the personal price plan prices are based on rating plans that vary by state coverage options are selected by the customer availability amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state what is the level of professionalism on season three of house of the dragon versus season one did it start professional like how How quickly did it devolve? You know what? We had, it devolved pretty quickly. We had Reese Evans, who is the naughtiest mischief maker on the planet. I wish this man did press. Because the legends of Reese, he seems like, everybody says he is like anarchy.

15:11He is like the Joker. They don't make them like him anymore. and I like it just you know the little glint in his eye would set me Matt Fabian or we were and I'm such a corpse and I do attach myself to like the naughty boys on set as well I do love them I do love them so much and so like so you give them you're enabling them you're laughing and they feed on that enabler yeah I really am just like do it do it again go on I dare you you know totally um so yeah it evolved very quickly but you know i think for the most part we were a very professional yes bunch but those long shooting days and when you're shooting a sequence for a week two weeks lunacy does sort of penetrate so you have to do anything to sort of like reconnect with reality and if that means you know having a laughing fit to sort of break the tension I think that's healthy I think so Why be miserable?

16:18Seven months Seven months of your life You want to be miserable? I can't I actually can't I can't And also like you know Alison's track record Is a very depressive one Yeah you can't live in that Headspace too much I can't do it I need the light Yeah Don't DDL this Don't Daniel Day-Lewis this You can't No No Have you worked with That type of I mean we all have DDL Please But you have Now I need to go back Into the filmography I'm sure I could figure it out I'm not going to name names. I'll tell you after. It's just... It's a lot. Like, I get it. Okay. But it's like, you know, Kristen Stewart did this fabulous, I think it was the New York Times interview, where she was saying, you know, the craft of acting is a very, like, unmasculine place to live in.

17:06Right. And so, you know, mainly men have to affect strife and, you know, anger and violence to sort of justify that making art and making films is a very vulnerable place. Well, it's also a selfish act. It's like it's for yourself, not for your co-stars. It can bring others down and make it an uncomfortable experience. Exactly. The whole point is to have everybody in a relaxed state where they can be free. Yeah. Like, let's just connect. Like, let's go on this journey. Like, it's going to take us on, like, so many different wild turns if we just trust in what we're making here. Yeah. Because I know that you've gone home, looked in the mirror, and you've already decided everything that you want to do.

17:54Right. Yeah. I find it very exhausting and not fun, you know. It's also interesting because I heard you talk about like, you know, there's all sorts of levels of actor actors in this show where they've like, you know, I'm sure they're rot a train. They're people that have gone the whole schooling, tons of theater experience and whatever. And like, was there any like early on, whether it's even House of the Dragon or other other gigs, like where you felt an insecurity that you didn't have the training? You didn't have that kind of training on set. For sure. I think I still have it now where I feel sort of like vocally unprepared and not quite tuned.

18:36And my sort of knowledge of the classics and theatre is very limited compared to people that have been to drama school. And I'm actively giving myself sort of a theatre education. but yeah I still brush up against that that's my own like chip on my shoulder oh owl I had to mention we have an owl in here we have an owl in here it's on the mascot of Happy Sack and yeah I think I'd come in to auditions or onto sets and there would be a shorthand because it's like you know people that went to Eton or Harrow So, you know, their way of talking or undercutting like social awkwardness is to ask what school you went to.

19:29And it's sort of the same with drama school as well. And then there's that immediate point of reference, which I just didn't have at all. Did you have any chip on your shoulder when you didn't get in? Because you wanted to go to RADA? Yeah, I got to the final round and then didn't get in. but then I got the lead in a movie. Like guys so... Who's the winner here? But I did have this thing of like oh no this is not the way it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to go to drama school. I'm supposed to learn my craft and then do it but I couldn't turn down a career that was being offered. So which gig was that?

20:10It was The Quiet Ones which is with... It was a horror with Sam Claflin and Jared Harris. Yes. Strange film. We've all got a few on the resume. It's okay. Yeah, but fun. And I feel like I learned so much so quickly. And I was this, you know, typecast, this 14, I think I was 14, 14-year-old girl who is possessed. Rite of passage for everybody. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, didn't, couldn't, didn't and couldn't sniff at that. Yeah. Yeah. Were you still working odd jobs at that point? Like, did you have side... No. No. You had doubled down. You were... Yeah. Well, I'd worked from 14 at a hair salon and then a beauty salon.

21:00And then I worked in a cafe called Peace, Love and Cake. And I was making the cappuccinos and busing tables and then i got my first job on a bbc show called blackout where i played christopher eccles's daughter right and i think surrounded by dr who's all your life yes i know when is it my time i mean they're looking for a new doctor are they um and then i was for some reason i was in a cemetery i think i was overdosing i can't remember there was sick next to me um and i remember texting my boss being like hey this night shoot is going late so never said those words before in my life this night shoot's going late um so i don't know if i'll be able to make it into work tomorrow but i've got an m to cover my shift and she messaged back don't bother coming in um tomorrow or ever again i'll give last week's wages to m and that was the last time i had like a Your decision was made for you.

22:05There you go. All right, we're going to come back to that path, but let's a little bit more on House of the Dragon before I forget. So I'm just curious, like, when this came around, I mean, a big opportunity, a very exciting opportunity. It's got a built-in audience. You know the eyeballs are going to be there. That being said, like, being the kind of optimist slash pessimist, like, what were the concerns? Like, did you have major questions given anything that was attached to Game of Thrones? Yeah, I think up until that point, I felt like I had had a really lovely career where I was able to, you know, stretch myself creatively and also avoid, you know, fame.

22:54You had a nice, sweet kind of sweet spot. Yeah. You're doing some indies, you're doing the ready player ones, you know you in the industry, but you're not necessarily like you don't have that level that is going to impact you. Exactly. Like industry, like I was well liked, but I had this anonymity, which I, you know, loved and cherished. And yeah, that was a big concern that my life would change. change but then I realized I'd actually don't like to go out and I don't like apart from like when I have to do press like I'm I don't like to be seen or go to like parties or do anything that I don't absolutely have to um so safe place yeah you're speaking my language yeah yeah so like actually my life hasn't really changed that much maybe there's a bit of like I can't recognize you if you're hiding in your living room exactly exactly unless they're peeping through the window Yeah, scary actually.

23:52But I, yeah, I, apart from when the show comes out or a show is coming out and there's just a bit more awareness, you're in the zeitgeist I guess a little bit more. There's maybe more people recognizing you on the street or on the tube, but apart from that, it's fine. Did you know going in the age discrepancy that there would be between you and your sons on the show? No, not at all. When I found out that Tom Glyn Carney was like auditioning for my son, I was like, what? I was like, are they going to like recast Alison again? And like, like do another age jump? Like, how's this going to work? Yeah.

24:35Where are you at with it now? They're wonderful actors. I don't know how. No, I love that. God, I love them with all my heart. I think spiritually me and Tom are related. It's odd, isn't it? I feel many things about it. I feel like, God, is this just like the industry? Is this just Hollywood? They don't want to see women age. which, you know, I think it is a big leap for the audience to make.

25:05Or maybe I'm just a fantastic actor. Let's go with that. Let's go with that. Do you ever, you famously, I think you first auditioned for Rhaenyra, right? Yeah. So when you're looking at Emma in a scene, are you ever like, you're doing great, but I could have really nailed this scene? I think my wanting Rhaenyra initially was I was desperate to be blonde. I was just desperate. Like, it was so vain. I was like, I want to wear that wig. Seriously? That was a consideration? Yes. I was just like, I've never been blonde. How iconic. It was such a shallow thought. But then when I started auditioning for Alison, I was like, oh.

25:50like when you auditioned did you have the platinum blonde like did they give you a wig no no no no no it was it was locked down so it was just me and my sort of like crude lighting setup um but yeah no when i got the audition for allison and started auditioning for her i was like oh this is yeah this is who i'm sort of meant to play and what are emma's done the podcast before we all adore emma yeah um obviously everybody loves you two together we've talked about this before but like vibes again like has that relationship off camera evolved and helped the on-camera relationship you think by season three yeah i think it has i think we've just got a shorthand and the relationship is already embedded which you know chemistry is like such a mystical thing that you can't sort of bottle or recreate and you can try and act it but it's hard when you're when you don't actually have that in real life like I can try and have chemistry with this like crystal here and like do an okay job but it makes my life easier when we actually have real like a real bond and we really get on and I am so excited about their performance and what they're going to do.

27:07And it's so exciting and it makes me react in a different way. And we really can play in those moments and it's safe and we trust each other. It must be, yeah, given all that exciting when you come to a script and you see, because when these scenes happen, they're always, the writers deliver. There's always something really juicy. Yeah, we're very lucky. When they do write Rhaenyra and Alicent scenes, it's like all the focus is just, turned onto that scene and the tension is built and there's so much that is unsaid and it's all in the sort of like subtlety and the subliminal messages and also with the direction like it's it's it's us two you know trying to speak desperately to the to the the kid we once knew you know but there's just so much artifice in the way now yeah

28:31Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crock store today. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

29:14Okay, so we did jump ahead a little bit into kind of like when you started to kind of, the career started to take off. But let's go back even further. As a kid, I know you started to act around like eight. It's mostly just like school stuff, musicals, that kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah, after school club called Oldham, where I'm from, Oldham Theatre Workshop, where like so many amazing actors have been like Joe Gilgan, Saran Jones. Yeah, I think Anna Friel went there as well. Yeah, just like a lot of really good like northern British actors. So no acting, no serious arts in the family from what I gather?

29:52No, my dad loves karaoke. That counts. Yeah, so I think he's like, she got it from me. So what did they make of it when you started to like go from recreational to kind of like showing signs that this was going to be serious? Were they used, supportive? They were really supportive. Like they would drive me to auditions in Manchester with like local casting directors and my local agency that I was with up there. They were really supportive. Although my mum, when I was out of work between my first proper job and my second, I did two BBC dramas back to back. And there was maybe a gap of like three weeks in the middle.

30:37A short amount of time in this business. I know, please. But my mum was like, so what are you going to do then? Are you just going to sit on your bum all day long? What is this? 99 % of actors are out of work. 99 % of the time, Olivia, what are you going to do? and I was like I think for her like I dropped out of school there was no backup I had a GCSE education which is like the exams that you do at 16 which don't really amount to anything and so she was coming from a very concerned place of like yeah you did one job but we're not there yet and I was 18 and thought well this is it I'm set in your head you had no backup plan nothing no and i had no transferable skills at all necessity you had no back yeah i could i could maybe do tap dance that was about it there you go that's all you need karaoke in the blood yeah yeah yeah so you get you get the quiet ones you get the seminal classic ouija yeah i got bates motel before we g okay okay so so bates motel that's an interesting like that's an interesting show because I feel like it's somewhere in between like you could have gotten I'm most fascinated like like the first kind of break that happens because it's obviously not a choice it's sort of like luck of the draw whenever breaks you yeah whatever the first like steady gig is yeah you'll do whatever you could have been on a CW show you could have been oh I auditioned for them I was gonna say like what were you going up for in that I think everything and and yeah I I was yeah it was just old it was sort of like back in the day of pilot season I was yeah so I was still like auditioning for like like far and wide yeah um and Bates Motel came along and it was for an to play an American and I was like there's no way yeah and I just got it off of the tape and they never even met me and then I flew to Vancouver and started shooting for five months and at 18 and it was, you know, terrifying, but like the most exciting adventure ever.

32:42Could not believe it. How many years did you do on dates? Five seasons. Yeah, I did all of them. Yeah, yeah. And you are like it throughout. We mentioned Ouija, The Signal, Quiet Ones, and then Meet Earl and the Dying Girl. Yeah. Which like a huge like festival like moment. Like I remember being there. That was like when that film hit, it was kind of a little mini, you know, you're in that festival atmosphere. You know what it's like. Yeah, it was so exciting. Yeah. Take me into like that moment. I just, you know, because we'd, we watched it in, God, what's that theater called? Sundance? Yeah.

33:23The Eccles? The Eccles. Yeah, we watched it at The Eccles. Yeah. Huge audience. I think that was the first time I'd seen it. maybe I'd seen like an earlier cut and just the palpable emotion and reaction at the end and then this eruption of applause that lasted like it was like a can's applause oh god that's embarrassing can um a can applause um that lasted for forever and I just remember walking out of the theater is sort of high and nick offerman was stood there eyes bright red face swollen he'd been crying so much and he just sort of like put a hand on my shoulder and then just like looked away because he couldn't look at me i was like oh god this we've really made something alfonso's really made something special here and then it got bought by fox searchlight and they put all their eggs in in Brooklyn's basket and they did not promote it and barely anyone saw it.

34:26And it was really fucked because they, yeah, fuck you, Foxoops. It was fucked because they put us up like counter-programming against Jurassic World in the summer and we just weren't, we didn't have the heft to stand up against that. And I just like, my heart really broke for Alfonso and like all the work that he put into it. And like he was doing his own campaigning. And then we were like flying from state to state to try and like boots on the ground, raise awareness. And it was just a really exhausting campaign to get people to see this beautiful film. I remember you guys came into MTV. We talked to you.

35:06That's a lot of information to be there. Did it at least, okay, so yes, it gets this amazing critical reception. The good part about something like that is that people that need to see it, see it in the industry. Yeah. You were probably already on their radar, but did you find that it did something for you? It got you into more rooms? I think it, well, yeah. Steven Spielberg saw that film and he... That's a direct correlation to Ready Player One. Yeah. And I, yeah, that year, so Me and the Dying Girl came out in the June of 2015 and in September I got Ready Player One. Oh, wow. Yeah, so yeah, it was a bit of a direct route to Steven Spielberg.